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Tai Chi Robots
dknight writes "It seems that Chinese scientists are currently developing a robot which is capable of doing tai chi. The robot is being developed by the Beijing University of Science and Engineering, and is touted to be a great breakthrough in worker safety, as these robots could be used to perform dangerous work. They are supposedly able to sense changes in the slope of the earth around them (hills, etc.) and balance themselves out."
I wonder how they're gonna get 'em to breathe right?
With reasonable men I will reason; with humane men I will plead; but to tyrants I will give no quarter. -- William Lloyd
So if you gave them a faster processor, could they do other martial arts? ;)
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Prisoner #655321
whats the point of a robot that does martial arts? I doubt one would ever be able to defeat anyone, since the robots can't "think".
Why not just put the chinese robot on a Segway?
Imagine a Beowulf ... err, union of these
"You know why you do not see me styling wit my homies? Because I have no homies!!" -Mojo Jojo
...martial arts is it going to become a bad actor and do martial art/cop shows.
I can see it now:
Robbie the Robot
Texas Ranger
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Now if they could only build a robot that could do some mean Chai-Tea...
*ba-dum-chee*
"Ford," he said, "you're turning into a penguin. Stop it."
What's the point?
A walking robot that can perform VERY complex motion sequences, balance itself, and respond in real-time to dangerous situations. These robots (or a later generation) could be used to perform rescue tasks in damaged buildings after an earthquake, when the danger of aftershock is still very high-so if the building did collapse, a robot would die, not an extra human being.
Ok, of all the things you can get a robot to do.. tai chi? Geez, Loueez that's lame! What are they thinking? "Let's make a robot that moves reeeeaaaaal slow."
Lift one foot.
Raise an arm.
Even when I was a kid I had a toy robot that had machine guns shoot from its chest. Now that's a robot! At least make it a girl robot and have it do yoga or backbends or something.
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I've looked on Google, Yahoo!, and even tried to find the information from other sites containing news from the source AFP (which the site credits the information from) and there is literally no other even mention of this robot on the web. I can't help but wonder about the credibility of this article.
To make a pun demonstrates the highest understanding of a language
Karma: The shiznight, mostly because I am the Drizzle.
Imagine being the scientist working on this when Mister Roboto looks you square in the eyes and says, "Whoa... I know Tai chi."
I mean, do you suppose the robot will be able to kill him before he reaches the plug?
My
Limekiller
"The Chi is strong in this one..." ...NEXT!
..NEXT!
.NEXT!
They are supposedly able to sense changes in the slope of the earth around them (hills, etc.) and balance themselves out.
They also can sense the emotions and ambitions of the humans around them, slowly feeding off of their pain and misery, and always plotting against us.
Something different:
They can sense the coming of the Singularity by using their advanced meditation techniques. Slowly watching us they are, gathing information, to make the elimination of the humans that much more quick.
Tai Chi Tamagochi Robots! If you feed them they'll grow into Tai Chi Masters, able to masterfully perform even the most difficult moves of Tai Chi.
COLLECT ALL 6 TODAY!!
(Only at Participating McHughs Restaraunts. While Supplies Last.)
It'd be cooler if they were powered by Chi.
NEXT!
"Li added that this type of robot would be able to take over some dangerous jobs from humans."
--As soon as I get my gun, I guess they'll have robotic telemarketers*. Now I need an EMP.
END!
New Movies Titles:
"Kung Fu Tai Chi Fighting Robots from Outer Space!"
"Tai Chi Robots from HELL!"
* I do not condone the shooting of telemarketers in this economy. But as soon as things improve and a better job opens up, say, anything, it'll be ok again.
are they going to get the robot's mouth to move totally independently of the sounds coming out of the speakers?
Tai Chi is not "shadow boxing" as the basically uninformative blurb the story links to states. It's a legitimate martial art perfectly useful for beating the crap out of people.
Yes, it has it's solo forms, typically practiced in slow motion, just as other martial arts have *their* practice kata, and just as these other martial arts have kata with partners so does Tai Chi, as well as full out sparing.
Don't be fooled by the new age types teaching it badly to Granny in the park, and don't take lessons in it from any instructor not competent to teach it *as* a martial art. They don't know what they're doing.
That said, any robot that can go through a Yang Long Form with me is a *major* step forward in humanoid robotics. Hell, it takes a great deal of practice and training for a *human* to do it vaguely properly and I want to see this puppy in action.
I wonder how it would do in "pushing hands"? That would be the ultimate test.
KFG
Crouching diode hidden step motor.
"as these robots could be used to perform dangerous work."
Just think, eventually they will be able to perform all kinds of work, not related to dangerous occupations.
Certainly they will end up being cheaper than the human worker over time.
I look forward to the day when robots are able to do nearly everything we pay manual labor for now. Then what the hell will we do? What will spurn our economy? Will the average blue collar worker work for the robots instead?
Animation replaces actors/actresses, robots replace blue collar workers, etc. etc. It certainly will be interesting to know what an ever-growing population will do with themselves, and how our economy will change in the next 100 years.
Every company (and even our President) wants us to run purchase more and more, but the jobs are decreasing as we're replaced by efficiencies through technology. I guess in the end we'll just ask one another, "Would you like fries with that?"
if it's so easy to lift one foot, raise one arm, reeeeaaaaaaal slow, why does it seem so hard for me to get a human student to do it without falling right over?
This is a *major* advancment in humanoid robotics if they've actually pulled this off.
KFG
Too bad they are blocking useful research tools like Google. Otherwise they would know the Segway "scooter" beat them to some of these technological feats.
Can a human ride on the robot's back and still have it sense and adapt to changing surface angle...like the segway.
On the other hand, the segway doesn't do tai chi.
-Pete
Soccer Goal Plans
if performing tai chi is one of the dangerous jobs that the workers could have.
or else this robot may learn Falun Gong and they would have to kick its ass.
Let's see the Tai Chi robots take on Slimer!
Now if I could get one of the tai chi robots to clean my toilet and do other household tasks, oh, and a better exterior would be nice....
They couild take over the world without robots.
Laws are for people with no friends.
A less than one page press release, uncorroborated on the Net, that says that Tai Chi is a form of shadow boxing and that this thing will "Play" Tai Chi? All I can assume that means is that it is capable of moving a second limb in order to balance a first limb, without any sort of major locomotion, but the author's grasp of the subtlety of Tai Chi seems a little tenuous. With the broad scope of this posting, it could be the next revolution in computing or a new program for the Sony Aiboman.
Can anyone find another source for this story?
-C
This Sig is a mnemonic device designed to allow you to recognize this author in the future.
You wanna go around rescuing people from earthquake rubble on a frikkin' scooter?
(Courtesy of the SNL Celebrity Jeopardy skits - No, I couldn't resist.)
I see lots of disparaging comments on this one. But I remember seeing Asimo (the Honda robot...please, no SFII jokes) in action and thinking "Jesus, look at that!". Imagine Moore's law applied to that.
:P ) but hear this: robots (Asimov's, to be precise) are coming, and the Aseans have a lead on the rest of the world because they took the long view. They have the patents because they took the time and money to develop something not deemed feasable...but looky here, it's slowly but surely turning out to be not only feasible, but thanks to Aibo (and production robots like the ones FIAT makes &uses thanks to the Asians) profittable too.
:)
Asimo already looked pretty much like a granny in slightly slo-mo. Now add taichi into the mix...that's a complex balancing act most humans can't even do (try it once, before you joke about it...stand on one leg, have the other in the air to the front, put both arms to the side of your body that has the leg in the air...what, you fell down? That's why it's hard. Now add movements to it, all the while balanced and controlled. And sloooow. Get it now?).
I tell you, the Japanese and the Chinese have a big thing here...hardly anyone in the west is taking this seriously (excluding some at for example MIT who are considered slightly strange), and consequently the west will have a HUGE disadvantage when housekeeping robots come out in ten, fifteen years time.
And this time, they're not kidding; look what's been done in 5 years time...from barely crawling (infant) to selfsufficient, internal powersource, full balance, near full range of motion (granny). The processing power is there, now it's just a matter of application and cost. And products like Aibo (which I hate, too) will cover dev costs.
This is a bit of a ramble, I know (champange has that effect on me
Thank god someone had the foresight...my IIIc made me feel I was living Star Trek, the next Asimo might make me think I'm living in Asimov's world. I love technology
-- Waht? Tehr's a preveiw buottn?
in several regards. He fully foresaw the time when the "problem of production" was fully solved. He actually forsaw the problem this would present for a capitalist industrial economy and pretty much asked all the right questions. Unfortunately he came up with pretty much all the wrong answers. Went a bit loopy at the end too.
The point of the matter is though that it's been quite a while since virtually all rote labor has been able to be performed by robots better than humans. It's been the humans that have been insisting on continuing to do this mindless, and pointless, labor in order that they may have "a job."
This last is just one of the symptoms of a social atmosphere based on humans as machines and their output as "the economy." Me, if a machine can do the job, I *don't want it.* Really, just kill me now if you have to. I'd just curl up in a ball and die of ennui anyway if forced to perform such laborious, yet mindless, tasks.
So what the hell do we do when the machines are doing all such tasks, as I believe they *should*?
How about what humans do better than machines? Think.
Maybe then we'll start to realize that the value and the purpose of a human being isn't to be a robot.
There's going to be a shitload of "shakeout" before that comes to pass though. Batten down the hatches.
KFG
Some facts:
Robots can't do Tai Chi, they can only *mimic* Tai Chi movement...why?
Tai Chi (also called 'Taijiquan' - meaning "body as fist") is a legitimate martial art that has been bastardized in China and the West; it has also become something of a New Age phenonenon.
Why can't a robot do leigitimate Tai Chi? Because training in authentic Tai Chi involves exercises that essentially, over time, 1) dramatically retrain muscle fascia; 2) develop enormous leg strength in the practitioner (necessary; 3) teach the practitioner that *all* movement is controlled from the center (this is where the New Age people get it wrong, as we're talking about *literal* control from the area - front to back - just below the belly button (dantien). This latter quality is what's hard to imagine until one meets a practitioner who has it right. There simply aren't many of these people left, and those who are left tend to be very restrained about teaching everything openly.
Here are some good, authentic places to start - everything below is the 'real deal':
http://www.sixharmonies.org/
http://www.neijia.com/
Others to look for:
Chen Xiao Wang
Chu Tian Cai
Chen Zheng Lei
Wang Xian
Chen Qingzhou
Anything done by any of the above is the 'real deal'. There are also other good practitioners in other 'styles' of taiji. The above group is form Chen Style, the first Taiji style.
Zhu Tian Cai
The reason that Tai Chi exercises are performed slowly is to train the body to move, resting on very strong legs, and allowing the "center" to "leverage" the ground for striking and other martial moves. It's virtually impossibelto describe what this quality 'feel's like. There's no mystery to it however, as it can be trained to various levels depending on the physical ability and dedication of the practitioner.
Unfortunately, there are too few authentic Tai Chi practitioners out there who are teaching the "real deal".
Good Tai Chi practice doesn't have to be martial, **but the quality and basics of correct movement HAVE to be present** for it to be called legitimate Tai Chi.
Simply doing Tai Chi 'forms' fluidly is not doing Tai Chi.
In sum, the real physical dynamics and requirements of Tai Chi cannot be simulated by a robot. A robot may *mimic* moves that look like Tai Chi, but that's all.
Cake or Death? Cake Please!
It may know Kung Fu, but will it remember Feng Shui? I mean, what is a balancing robot without Feng Shui?
Here's some videos...
n yb ot.html
http://www.tokyodv.com/news/RoboDex2002SDR-3XSo
Eating is for wimps.
It's interesting how Westerners have been adopting bits of Eastern philosophy and spiritual practice (Tai Chi, Feng Shui to name a couple), without their cultural context, often mindlessly aping the movements and ideas found in Dummies books or some television guru's show. Now the Chinese themselves are taking this to an extreme with their robots, in effect completely decontextualizing the significance of Tai Chi movement.
Systemd: the PulseAudio of init systems
Seriously. People without buddism kill other people or other living beings or bring other forms of suffering to other people or to other living beings. Such people live their lives without high-order goals (what's the goal to get many money if you loose them after your death). Even most of religious people (especially ones of religions based on dogmatic principals) are not usually tolerant to people of other reliogion confessions.
But once computers becomes actors in our eco-systems (computers now can decide on our behalf) then I would prefer to see such actors being peacuful, tolerant, non-violent, living their "lives" for good, loving and respecting other living beings.
We don't want to have computers with "ego" - living their "lives" for themselves (and killing us as their competitors or using us as slaves). But also, we don't want computers as stupid slaves, living their lives for "ego" of particular group of people (they would become solders-killers).
Of course, forcing computers to study buddhism should not free us (people) from the same job. We also must be peaceful, tolerant, respectful, loving and non-violent. Unfortunately many of us are not. And that't the real problem.
Less is more !
Tai Chi (there are many forms)...loosely referred to as a physical exercise regimen that involves paced breathing and body movements with the goal of self energized mental and physical well being. For many practicioners the focus in doing them is not, first and foremost, martial, but as a meditative exercise for the body.
:)
In the case of a robot, it is simply a scripted set of basic, slow movements meant to mimic a human, and thus allow an audience to be able to identify with a machine on something more than a level that only requires an on switch. Sony's 'bots play soccer, and shake hands, as an example. Tagging that message as insightful is a joke, and clearly indicates the need for mods that allow for sarcasm
In response to China's development of Tai Chi robots, Hong Kong announced today it's busy developing Feng Shui robots.
That's why I suggest to program robots to study buddhism before teaching them any social activity (especially before Martial Arts).
Less is more !
Taichi Robot story last night. It has a nice photo. The text is in chinese. I don't want to spend too much time for translation. So I just add a few extra points. The university names are my direct translation. They are unlikely to be the correct spelling... I am not a native Mandarin speaker.
I am not sure when/how did you do the search. I find
many links related to the posted story, although the content is more or less the same in everyone. It is not at all surprising. The reporters duplicated the official press release from englishdaily.com.cn. In a sense, Chinese is similar to Japanese. Many of these news are not for "export". They just publish the stories in their own language. You really cannot say it does not exist until you search in their own language (if you can...)
I do Wing Chun (Ving Tsung) which is a little like Tai Chi. It'd be cool if someone created a machine that was a little like a Mook Yan Yong (Wooden Dummy) with moving arms and AI encorporated, so it could do basic Chi-Sau. I find that most of the time I have no partner to train with. Of course, it'd take a lot of work to recreate the pressure sensitivity etc, but im sure some bored person could do it...
The pet rock company has announced the availability of a robot capable of performing zen meditation. This is an upgrade of the intelligent pet rock (capable of obeying commands such as "kill" and "play dead"). Owners of pet rocks can install the upgrade at a special price of 0.00$ (limited time offer).
The company is working on adding a third function (ornament in a rock garden), to be released at an unspecified time in the future.
You must not have looked very hard:
China builds tai chi-playing robot (same article, different site)
Un robot imitant la boxe chinoise (from google cache)
Article in Chinese with PICTURE
Another Picture
China construye un robot que practica el taichi (Spanish, I think)
Chinese invent martial arts ready robot It can also surf the Internet, maybe
New Robot Developed in China (with Picture)
Woopty Doo Basil, what does it all mean?!
In sum, the real physical dynamics and requirements of Tai Chi cannot be simulated by a robot. A robot may *mimic* moves that look like Tai Chi, but that's all.
It's possible to interpret your words as meaning that an authentic Tai Chi practitioner can harness some magical force or hidden power of the universe which is not available to the world of physics and technology. If so, we have no point of contact for a reasoned argument, since I don't subscribe to the concept of souls or mystical essenses.
If on the other hand what you mean is that Tai Chi is so exquisitely tuned to the needs of the human body and mind that a robot could not really duplicate it, simply because it is not made of flesh and blood, then I agree completely. However, notice that a robot would not need to do so anyway. A Tai Chi master at his or her peak is ultimately just a near-perfectly balanced machine, and such a state of power, readiness and competence can be the baseline specification for the robot at design time. Furthermore, once the robot is up and running then it can fine-tune its behaviour beyond that design baseline. Such robots will appear in time, as it's really just an engineering problem to be solved.
So, assuming that we're talking about the physical world and not something mystical, robots will indeed not really do Tai Chi as you say, that is true, but they will benefit from humans practicing the art, and then surpass them inevitably.
Having said that, the future is rosy not bleak, since mankind is on a path of self-transformation in which he integrates fully with his technology. Ultimately we'll all benefit from the work of Tai Chi masters, and to some extent carry their accomplishments within ourselves.
"The question of whether machines can think is no more interesting than [] whether submarines can swim" - Dijkstra
The Chinese have picked the perfect plan.
1) Develop a weapon out in the open.
2) Desguise the weapon as something people will like or might find useful and that's trendy(robot).
3) Program the robot to fight in a style that most people think is very slow, thoughtful, and for old people.
4) Mass produce and SELL SELL SELL.
5) Send millions to a wearhouses all over the United States for "storage".
6) Send the signal for FULL SPEED MODE.
7) Mass destruction and KILL KILL KILL.
I say we nuke them before they get their "weapons of mass destruction" plan under full steam.
"Do not be swept up in the momentum of mediocrity." - anon
RE: None of the Gracies has any problem with taking guys down, GETTING ON TOP and then punching OR arm barring them into submission.
That's funny, I've never seen a Gracie do anything remotely like that. They either 1) stand next to the person in a big hug until the other guy tires and the clock runs out or 2) go into the "bitch" position and wait for the other guy to make some kind of move, hoping he'll make a mistake.
--- Jump!! Fire!! Bullet time!! - Lego version of the Matrix