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Tallest Roller Coaster in the World
Coaster Art Guy writes "Cedar Point amusement park unveiled the tallest roller coaster in the world today. Top Thrill Dragster launches you from 0 to 120 MPH in 4 seconds via a hydraulic launch. The dragster looking like cars take you straight up a 420 foot tower, into a top hat element, and twists you 270 degrees straight down. All in about 20 seconds from start to finish. How about that one? Also check out the POV video here Quicktime or here Windows Media Player."
but I don't see why they are so short i mean sure its faster but why not make the damn thing longer??
And it's already down, I guess there right about that 20 second from the start to the end :)
non flash front page
520 feet??? Bleah! First puke!
This one sounds cool, but I prefer traditional style coasters.
No boom today. Boom tomorrow. There's always a boom tomorrow. - Cmdr. Susan Ivanova
20 seconds is pretty short. The only thing I can hope is that the extreme rating this thing would get in Roller Coaster Tycoon would keep the crowds away so that the lines never get too long. I could spend an hour going up and down that thing! Unfortunately, if they change the name to something such that "extreme" contains a capital "X" in the form of "eXtreme" or "Xtreme," everyone and their mom will want to ride it. After all, it's Xtreme!!!
Lack of eloquence does not denote lack of intelligence, though they often coincide.
from 120mph to 0mph as soon as Slashdot hears about it.
You quitting proves that the karma kap worked. The most annoying of the whores shut up. --CmdrTaco
I'll bet there servers are going for a roller coaster ride right about now.
Karma: The shiznight, mostly because I am the Drizzle.
Yes, it's exciting, but something about this guy's expression on the diary page makes me think he's got more than a coaster blueprint hiding behind that paper.
You like splinters in your crotch? -Jon Caldara
Taken directly from http://www.cedarpoint.com/public/inside_park/rides /thrill/_ttd/specs/diary/index.cfm
Date: January 09, 2003
Entry: Catching Up
By: Monty Jasper
Vice President of Maintenance and Construction
You have no idea what a relief it is to finally be able to talk about Top Thrill Dragster. It's the most exciting project I've ever worked on, and keeping it a secret for more than a year has been tough! So far, we've met our milestones, but there are still some big ones up ahead. Overall, I'm pleased with how well things have gone.
I'm sure you've been keeping track (no pun intended) of the ride through the webcams. As you can see, about 90 per cent of the ride is up, and we're well on schedule for the steel erection portion of the work. Our biggest challenge on Top Thrill Dragster was to put up the steel as soon as possible so winter didn't delay the project. We really needed to beat the clock on this one, and despite the winds in November and December, and the recent snow, we're doing okay on the track work. The crew did a great job under some major adverse conditions.
A few sections of track and support columns still need to be put in place once all the heavy equipment is removed from the infield. We're keeping one of the cranes for a little bit longer to install the elevator that'll go to the top of the tower, put catwalks in place, to allow us to torque the bolts on the track and inspect it all.
The foundation for the station is done. The station has an incredible clamshell design, and I predict it will be magnificent.
Work on one of the electrical rooms is 40 per cent complete, and the hydraulic room is about half-finished. The electrical work overall is about 20 per cent complete, and the electrical component of the project is extremely important. Top Thrill Dragster will require a lot of power, because it's taking roller coasters to a whole new level of energy and speed.
Because we'll be dealing with heat and speeds no one has ever contended with before, we're going to need a lot of time to deal with these issues, and Top Thrill Dragster will undergo extensive testing. I'm shooting to have it fired up so we'll have everything resolved in plenty of time for Opening Day, May 4. Testing will include a partial pull-through, and sending a train with a clearance template attached.
That's it for now. I'm looking forward to riding it, how about you?
Cedar Point's Millenium Force coaster is 310 feet high.
The current highest out and back coaster, according to Guinness, is the Steel Dragon in Japan.
best web host ever
--more naked
Very popular slashdot journal for adul
Cedar Point is one of the nicest amusement parks in the world. It is clean, they have a lot of good rides, the audience is very well behaved, and the lines are short (in relation to other theme parks). Last two years I went during the weekends of fall, and on Sunday we were able to ride every ride on the park twice in 4 hours.
Your puke may actually make it into space.
fslg503-985-8686503-985-8686503-985-8686503-985-8
In case Cedar Point's servers are going for a ride, here is more information:
:)
Stats
http://www.rcdb.com/installationdetail1896.htm
Press Release
http://www.rcdb.com/document82.htm
Pictures
http://www.rcdb.com/installationgallery1896.htm
Now, go slashdot rcdb instead.
Dr. Demento On The 'Net!
They could just as easily call it the "Barf-O-Matic" ...
No sig for you. YOU GET NO SIG!
Ok, 20 seconds to ride,
60 seconds to load and unload
7014 seconds in line...
Not for me.
Give me an entertaining ride that lasts a couple minutes at least. Millenium Force was down when we were there, but they've got some great rides.
Mantis -- Woot!
Just avoid the indoor dark bobsled-style coaster on days when it's 90 degrees out -- the AC in the building can't keep up.
Design for Use, not Construction!
Granted Cedar Point is running out of room (being on an island and all) so they're finding ways to push the envelope, thrill the riders and still fit it in between last year's tallest and the year before's fastest but c'mon, isn't this a little ridiculous? Do I really want to wait in line behind some cellulite ridden, fanny pack wearing tourist for 20 seconds of high-g, whiplashing inducing, 120 mph fun? Hell yeah I do. But honestly, the Mean Streak, Gemini and Mantis are still the park's main attractions IMHO. They simply don't build them like they used to.
All in about 20 seconds from start to finish.
And if you act now, they'll throw in 4 hours of waiting in line absolutely free!
That one is just too high for me. :)
my sig
The more bodies they can run thru the gate, the more income they can grab to help pay for the next model. Just like turning over tables at a restaurant, fares in a taxi or Johns on the street.
Want a longer ride? Buy another ticket...it's all about money, after all.
Screw what people like or don't like...pass the bong!
Perl - $Just @when->$you ${thought} s/yn/tax/ &couldn\'t %get $worse;
I can see my house from here !
"Free software as in beer, copy protection as in racket" - Telsa Gwynne
... rocks! It's gotta be one of the best amusement parks in America. I went there while in Ohio for a family reunion a couple of years ago and I had a great time. The lines sucked (as they do in all of these places) and stuff was overpriced (again, as they do in all of these places), but that's pretty much expected. The great thing was the variety of rides (unexpected) and the location (Sanduski, Ohio) of the place (also unusual). All I know is that I had a great time there and you could do worse for finding a day of rides.
That is all.
There have been a lot of reports of people getting neurological injuries on coasters already.
I wonder how much more they can push these things before the human limits are reached (at least the human limits the insurance companies will allow!).
I'm still trying to load that Quicktime video from their /.'ed server but I believe this was the same type of coaster mentioned in this WiReD Magazine article a couple of years ago.
Dang! One look at that thing and I'd be headed for the bummper cars. It's more like a Demon Drop that just gets you to the top REALLY FAST than a roller coaster. Guess it's got all the parts to be a roller coaster, but still...
I know I'm going to get flamed for this, but frankly I'm sick of seeing people excited over this coaster. What makes a good coaster is pacing. Millenium force is considered a great ride because it reamins exciting thoughtout the entiure duration of the ride. Antipation builds up on the lift, the frist drop is amaizing, the campelback is nice the overbanked turns are unique and the bunny hops are great. It stays varied.
Here, anticipation builds for probalby about 15 seconds. You launch and go though the ride in 15 and then you wait for the train to unload. It's not much of a ride. There's no pacing and no variety.
Anohter thing that bothers me is the wait time for this ride. MF has a capacity of 1600 people per hour and suffered waits of upto 4 hours when it was new. These people waited for a 2:45 ride. The wait/ride second=1:30
TTD has a capacity of 1500pph and the ride only lasts what I exect to be about 30 seconds of actual coaster. Its lines should be longer than MF's when it was new and the wait should be a little more to factor in the lower capacity (about 4:15). The wait/ride second=8.5.
I'd much rathter go to Six flags magic mountain next year and ride Scream! - it's a full ride with a higher capacity.n I'd wait less and leave the ride happier. The longer ride will produce more adrenaline which is the whole point of coasters anyway.
Thanks for reading my rant
Well, I just can't agree with that. ;)
After all, Canadians use the metric system!
120 mph is 2 miles/minute.
2 miles/minute is 176 ft/sec
0 to 176 ft/sec in 4 seconds is 44 ft/sec/sec
1 G is 32 ft/sec/sec so it's 44/32 or about 1.4 G.
Going a little further, if you weigh 220 lbs, you'll enjoy the feeling of 302 (220x1.4) lbs squishing you into your seat. wotta thrill....
At 120 MPH you pee'd the guys pants behind you too.
Karma: The shiznight, mostly because I am the Drizzle.
The millenium force gets 1600 riders/hr. This one is predicted to get 1500. Usually the turnover is dictated by the size of a train and how fast you can load/unload them. There will be a train going up the hill, one on the track and one in the house loading/unloading. When they are going 70-120 mph, you'd need an awfully long track to change this model. Since this coaster is so fast, there will only be one train going up the hill or on the track. All the others will be loading/unloading and keep the line moving that way.
I think the reason it is short is twofold. 1) Cedar Point is on an peninsula and space is getting scarce. 2) No one really cares what comes after the first hill.
I don't believe it is as simple as some of the "screw the customer and move 'em along" remarks would lead you to believe
...that's a new one.
Compared to the "commericial" amusement parks like Disney and Six Flags, Cedar Point is quite affordable.
I took a tour of three different parks in Ohio last summer in a week for coaster riding (Cedar Point, Six Flags Ohio and Paramount's Kings Island), and prices at Cedar Point were the cheapest. It was also the best operated park from a staffing standpoint.
...as a theme park owner/operator, I take it?
...right...making money...
Or simply an engineering approach, perhaps?
At least we agree that it's not a simple answer. Spending and making money never is, or we'd all be rolling around in it, wouldn't we. In this case, rather than speed up the line, we'll wait to see if they increase the fare instead. Any doubt the TTD costs more to ride than the MF? And that increase has to do with what?
Acording to the Facts Page, its capacity is Approximately 1,500 riders per hour. I'm not sure how this was calculated, but being its a 20sec ride that should hold true.
That's Just a Burglar Alarm -- Ignore It!
There is no "fare". This was covered in a different post. It is a one time fee to get into the park. There is no per-ride cost. Both TTD and MF cost US$25 million to build (according to rcdb.com), and both take roughly the same riders per hour.
I still maintain that it is a quick ride because they realize there is only so much space on the peninsula, and that to make the thing long enough to impact the riders/hr would have taken all the space the park has. So now you get a rather intense 20 second ride. Which is really what you came for. No one remembers the second hill.
But this two ride thing makes me wonder...since they use a dragster theme, why didn't they put two tracks next to each other? Thus doubling the capacity, while expanding on the drag race theme?
The tracks could twist inside each other on the downrun, and add even more thrill...wonder if they thought about this and rejected it?
Was it safety or money that held them back?
Since the sight is slashdotted (it's painfully slow in the middle of the off season before /. hit it anyways), here are some more details that I gleamed off the site earlier. I guess my write up wasn't good enough :(
-Each car will have tiered seating, similar to stadium seating in a movie theater. Everyone should have a good view of the ground as the are dropping straight towards it.
-The track is basically an oval. You come straight out of the garage, immediately go up, peak, then come back down. On the trip down, you do a 270 degree twist. Then you just ride out on a straight track.
-The cars will be launnched via a cable (similar to the Millenium Force) as oppose to a LIM. Braking will be provided via magnets.
-CP is expecting a car goes through the station every 40 seconds for about 1500 people/hour.
Anyways, if you want to see two representations as to what the track will look like, check out here.
My favorite extreme ride was in the Julian Alps. Some crazy friends and I had spent the week climbing and sky diving, well one brilliant soul decided to combine the two activities and another extreme sport, skiing! We climbed up a mountain then put on some cheap skis we had purchased and skied down a scree field. At the bottom of the field was an ~4K foot cliff, we went off the edge and immediately deployed our sails, what a rush!
There are 4 boxes to use in the defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, ammo. Use in that order. Starting now.
Is this really a roller coaster? I'd think a roller coaster would go in some sort of loop, not straight up, a twist and then straight down. I'm sure it's a thrilling ride, but not really a roller coaster.
What, the Slashdot effect?
No, the average Slashdot reader having sex...
---
Information wants...you to shut your pie hole.
Cedar Point is certainally a great park. They care for their employees, and run a great place. I have had much experience with many people involved with the park over the years, living just a stones throw away. I did some computer work in the past for the head mainframe analyst there a while back. I saw some pictures from their data rooms back in the mainframe days, as well as some more current ones. It certainally is an impressive sight, especially being an amusement park. The park is built in fact on a peninsula, not an island, so they have more room then you would think to expand, as well as hotels, and marinas which can be used for future expansion. They outdid themselves with the Millennium Force in my opinion. There is nothing like watching your favorite lady (or man) in the seat next to you as you scream down a 310 foot drop in the front seat. I can only hope this coming attraction will hold a candle to its predecessors. Cedar Point has several methods these days to cut down on the time to wait in line, such as hand stamps, and such, for those early to arrive. Hopefully this will cut down on the anticipation time, and increase the ride time on this. Anyway, this introduction is certainally thilling, and I can only hope my ride this coming May will live up to the immense hype.
Don't tell me I'm not the only person making comparisons to some other form of, shall we say, more intimate entertainment....
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But Al Gore invented them.
Wouldn't it just kinda fall with you?
I think the rest of the country would do good to follow New Jersey's lead.
This person must be trolling. Please, let this person be trolling.
Read up on the details. New Jersey has NOT outlawed "this type of ride." Rather, they have legislated caps on the G forces a ride is allowed to impose upon its riders, if that ride is to operate in the state. Cedar Point's new ride is comfortably within that maximum, and would be able to operate in New Jersey if a park there had the height variances, the business mandate and the cash required to build such a structure. Oh, and incidentally, New Jersey's G-force law will not prevent most of the injuries it is supposed to eliminate. Compare the nature of the cited injuries -- and the rides on which they occurred -- to the nature of the law's restrictions. There's little connection.
And while I'm here -- if you believe that their law against self-service at gas stations has a positive effect on public safety, you are wrong. It has a positive effect on PERCEIVED public safety, employment rates and other metrics with no bearing on your physical welfare. Self-serve is statistically quite a bit safer than full-serve. If you don't believe that, ask yourself why money-hungry insurance companies in 48 states (minus New Jersey and Oregon, where self-serve is a vicious crime against society) charge NO MORE to insure self-serve stations than full-serve stations.
So if you think this ride is dangerous, stay out of the line for it. Allow those of us who wish to "injure" ourselves to follow through on our folly. Someday you can look back wistfully on all the great experiences you watched other people have.
Don't even get me started on New Jersey's implementation of no-fault insurance. You'll never catch me owning a car in that state. Or stopping for gas there, either.
I only went to Vegas once and didn't notice it there, but I saw it after I processed my films. Happened to take a telephoto of the tower from the car on our way home...
To bad they didn't spiral it all the way down, lol
I certainly hope the ride isn't run by Windows CE. A BSOD half way up wouldn't be fun... Although, maybe CE could then stand for "Coasters Ejecting".
The 1.4g initial acceleration comes from the fact that the coaster is supposedly accelerated from 0Mph(0ft/s) to 120Mph(176ft/s) in about 4 seconds. This is assuming that the acceleration is constant.
However, the coaster passengers are also subjected to "g-forces" every time it changes directions(i.e. left, right, up, down, etc.) So when the coaster reaches the end of the initial acceleration to 120Mph it is subjected to a 90 change in direction (as it begins to travel perpendicular to the ground). This change in direction will result in "g-forces" applied to its passengers. As well each following turn will result in "g-force" felt by the coaster passengers.
The reason you did not experience any "g-forces" when you were traveling in your car at 120Mph is because you car was either not accelerating at all or the acceleration was to small for you detect. If you are traveling at a constant 120Mph in a straight line there is no acceleration on you or your car. If you make 1 or 2 complete counter/clockwise turns of the steering wheel or push the brake pedal to the floor you will probably feel a 'little bit' of force on your body. As well in some cars you could even push the "gas-pedal" to the floor and feel a significant acceleration at 120Mph but sure as hell not my car.
The physics behind constant acceleration is simple: for straight line acceleration divide the final velocity minus the initial velocity by the time required. Acceleration along a 2D curve is composed of a 2 components. A tangential component and a centripetal component. The tangential component is the acceleration at a tangent to some point along the curve, and can be calculated using a similar(or a simpler) technique as was used for the straight line acceleration. The centripetal acceleration for the same point occurs towards the center point of the curvature. It is equal to the velocity squared, divided by the radius of curvature. The total acceleration for the 2D curve is the root sum square of the tangential acceleration and the centripetal acceleration. The final sign(s) is/are relative to the direction of the acceleration.
It should be noted that the "g-forces" are association with a centrifugal force. Centrifugal force is not a true force it is how the body interprets inertia (resistance to acceleration). Centripetal force is a real force and it is related to the centripedal acceleration. The magnitude of the centripetal force is roughly the magnitude of the "interpreted" centrifugal force, they are just in opposite directions.
420 foot towers, as if stoners didn't already have enough time to smoke on the way up...
You mean Slashdotters get laid?
-Mr. Fusion
So if I'm going straight up and then getting twisted through 270 degrees how the hell am I coming straight down again ? I think you mean 180 degrees.
The weather is monitored closely for lightning cells. If one is approaching all units with radios are informed, all of the taller rides go down and potential hazards such as umbrellas (basically lighning rods) will go up.
Lighter rain alone will not shut down rides. This may be the exception, as rain hitting you at 120 MPH would probably be a bit painful.
High winds will also shut down the bigger rides.
Nothing surprising, really.
Jeez, who encoded the video? Even the "High" stream looks like dog crap. Ugh. I bet they paid some outside media processing place a hefty sum too. Can't even watch the videos.
Not All Who Wander Are Lost
Wrong.
New Jersey put a ban up on coasters with high G's, not the ones that are big and scary looking.
This one won't even hit 2, which is fine by me- experiencing high G-forces isn't fun.
If you're afraid of it, don't ride it.
The only thing i can connect to 420 is a john deere tractor from the late 50's. What are you connecting it to?
As everybody knows, the metric system was invented to make all the americans feel superoir! (Don't you whatch the X-Files? (And they only want you to believe that show has ended, trust me! ;) ) )
For all you metric-starved people, me included, here's what the article would read in cetric units:
Coaster Art Guy writes "Cedar Point amusement park unveiled the tallest roller coaster in the world today. Top Thrill Dragster launches you from 0 to 190 km/h in 4 seconds via a hydraulic launch. The dragster looking like cars take you straight up a 130 meter high tower, into a top hat element, and twists you 3/2*Pi radians straight down. All in about 20 seconds from start to finish. How about that one? Also check out the POV video here Quicktime or here Windows Media Player."
Sounds much less exciting now hah? Just proves my point.
You're friend's a moron, then. This was being constructed before the park closed, and the area was fenced off for the entire summer. And there's no such thing as "Steel Force".
c e. cfm
SOrry.. they had the area fenced, but the big hill wasnt up yet. I double checked with him this morning.
And yes, by the way, there IS something called "Steel Force".. its here in Eastern PA, (as I said) at Dorney Park, which is also owned by Cedar Fair. Steel Force is the second tallest in operation, (In the US, or in the Eastern US.. it keeps going back and forth) apparently, with Millenium Force its big brother.
http://www.dorneypark.com/rides/thrill/steelfor
Who is the moron?
Maeryk
Feminine Protection? What is that? A chartreuse flame thrower?
I hate long waits too. On a business trip to SoCal I had some time and went to Disney's California Adventure. It's kind of a small park, but they have a couple OK rides.
Anyway, they have an "express pass" deal that I thought was awesome. You put your park ticket (which is magstripped or barcoded) into a machine and it kicks out an express pass which is good for about a 20 minute time period in an hour. During the time period, you basically walk right up and get on the ride. I think we might have waited at most 2 load cycles before getting on the ride in the express queue. Afterwards, you can get another for the same ride.
I know you were limited to just one express pass for a particular ride at a time, but I can't remember if I was able to get multiple express passes in the same 1 hour period for multiple rides. Unlimited would be a problem, but 2-3 shouldn't be a big deal.
I'd love to see this implemented everywhere. It probably pays for itself since instead of waiting in the queue you can wait with a softdrink or something in a better location. An even better idea would be an admission upcharge that would allow you to get multiple passes for multiple rides or something. I'd pay an extra $10 if I knew I was going to be riding more rides and skipping more lines.
Other ideas that skip the technology investments would be "premium" tickets for more money that allow you to jump 2/3s of the main queue or something. I'd go for that in a heartbeat.
Batman & Robin Chiller has had its shoulder bars removed thus the head banging is gone. Personally it's a favorite rollercoaster of mine provided you can get 2-3 runs in within a reasonable amount of time (the lines can be hell) they've also learned how to launch the trains properly. My last trip to GA (the end of this past july) was the first time I'd ever seen chiller run all day without them having to stop the red train on the fail safe platform (the story I had gotten years before was that the launches suck up so much juice that if they launch the cars side by side or even too close together that the GA power station starts to struggle and eventually they get a bad run where the trains don't have enough velocity and have to be stopped).
Medusa is still a great coaster but you have to get the first row to really appreciate it. Nitro was a pleasant surprise since it's fast, gives tons of negative gs and seems to last forever while being astonishingly quiet. Nitro was totally not what I was expecting and even though it sounds like it would be boring it turned out to be worth the ride. The original GA batman coaster is still a solid coaster and the lines are usually pretty short these days.
If you don't like being beaten up the Great American Scream Machine has to come off your list. Over the years they've added extra brakes along the way and the wear and tear has made this coaster painful compared to when it was new. But the champ of pain at GA is the Viper. The viper's days have to be numbered, either that or it needs to be renamed to "beat you bloody under 25 seconds". Originally the viper was supposed to be either two or three times as long as it exists today but it was shortened last minute. The combination of the abrupt turns and the "padded" shoulder bars make this a must ride for the S&M crowd in a hurry.
But if you want scary at Great Adventure, Rolling Thunder is still the king. As it's gotten older and deteriorated the suspense of wondering if it's going to fall apart has peaked. Every time I get on RT I think of the handfull of people that have been thrown from it back when it was properly maintained. The only coaster that scares me more in this sense is the Cyclone =].
-- Button up, your ignorance is showing
I went there during the weekend before halloween and they had the fencing up and the first couple yellow steel pylons up already. I knew it was a new coaster but had no idea what it was going to be.
But I considered the fact that CP is prob pretty pissed that they lost thier tallest record so quickly after earning it back so I figured it would be bigger than MF.
We were joking that in 10 years or so we will see a 600 or 700 ft drop coaster. WHo would ride one of those?
"Don't mess with him, he taunts the happy fun ball."
So, does this mean that the Running of the Bulls will no longer be pushing toward Millenium Force anymore? =^)
This ride actually bears a bit of a resemblance to Superman: The Escape at Six Flags Magic Mountain, only that ride isn't an out-and-back like this one. It also owes a small debt to King's Dominion's Hypersonic XLC, which has the most intense launch of any coaster I've ever ridden -- a compressed-air system that pushes the car 0-80 mph in 1.8 seconds. At 20 seconds long, Hypersonic is also too short a ride. If someone could have made a full 90-second coaster ride out of something like Hypersonic, it would likely be my favorite coaster of all time. As it stands, that honor still goes to Apollo's Chariot at Busch Gardens.
Until I get to Cedar Point this summer, that is... =^)
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Cedar Point has this in the form of a stamp on your hand with the time you should get there. It's also free. It covered the major thrill rides that were known for long lines.
Other ideas that skip the technology investments would be "premium" tickets for more money that allow you to jump 2/3s of the main queue or something.
Doubtful. The tickets would have to be very expensive and very limited in number (say you can only buy 100 tickets on any given day). Guests do not take well to waiting in a long line only to see a large group of other guests just skip right ahead of them. This would just piss people off at the park for increasing their wait time so that guests willing to pay more cash to the park can budge them. In a way, it's like a park selling out it's guest service image.
The aforementioned express lane CP has only allows a handful of guests to skip ahead, so it's generally not an issue and doesn't add a noticable amount of time to the wait. If you want to skip the line, then you'd better get your express lane stamp first thing in the morning when you enter the park.
Doubtful. The tickets would have to be very expensive and very limited in number (say you can only buy 100 tickets on any given day).
Make them expensive and limited, and even purchase ahead. It's like ~$30 for an adult admission to Valleyfair in MN (owned by Cedar Point). I'd be willing to pay $60 to get in if I knew that I could jump the queue so many times per hour or something.
Deer Valley ski area actually stops selling lift tickets on popular days; maybe this is an option for amusement parks to keep the crowds down. Obviously they won't do this (if you're willing to pay on the most crowded days, their gain, your loss).
In a way, it's like a park selling out it's guest service image.
As far as I'm concerned, they're already selling out their image by doing nothing (at least at Valleyfair) to constrain crowds or waits. An express system would only piss people off if it wasn't generally for sale to everyone. I don't drive a BMW or live in a mansion, but it doesn't piss me off that some people can.
Actually, to all people who use metric (most of the world), this actually brings it more into perspective. 0 to 190 in 4 seconds is most impressive. It takes a skydiver in freefall at least 10 seconds to get to that speed.
Anyone know how many Gs this thing would produce?
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Almost all those things either require extensive training or cost a lot of money (equipment/travel). This is a $35 (or however much it costs to get into the park) thrill that almost anyone can participate in. Hell, I can hop on my bike and get up to 120mph in less time and it won't cost me jack (well except for gas and the massive fine if I get caught), but I still look forward to trying this thing out.
The 'model' Fabio got hit by a duck(?) during the opening of Apollo's Chariot at Busch Gardens/Williamsburg. He was in the front seat, and the fowl crossed the path. He ended up somewhat bloody IIRC. They've since put up a barrier net to keep the birds from taking off directly across the coaster path.
As far as I'm concerned, they're already selling out their image by doing nothing (at least at Valleyfair) to constrain crowds or waits.
Understandable. I've never been to Valleyfair, so I don't know what the conditions are. I can tell you at Cedar Point we always run as many trains as we can, we're always pushing our ride ops to squeeze in more rides per hour, etc. If that's the case at Valleyfair, they've already done what they can.
An express system would only piss people off if it wasn't generally for sale to everyone. I don't drive a BMW or live in a mansion, but it doesn't piss me off that some people can.
I think the car metaphor would be closer if we were comparing it to a tollbooth. Imagine you were on the highway and you're coming up to a tollbooth. There's a 15 minute line. Suddenly you see 5 BMWs just drive right up and "budge" you in line. The toll people don't care, because they're driving BMWs, and since they paid more for their cars they can get in front of you and make you wait longer, despite the fact that you have done nothing wrong. (I know about EZ-pass etc, but it doesn't fit in with this)
I know about EZ-pass etc, but it doesn't fit in with this
Except that EZ-Pass is exactly like that! We all pay "admission" (taxes) to the "amusement park" (roads). If you buy an EZ-Pass, you get to jump ("express lane") the queue ("traffic jam").
Furthermore, as relatively expensive as most theme parks are (admission, food, etc) they're not attracting affluent customers (at least not based on the people I've seen). A premium pass that entitled you to much shorter lines would attract more affluent customers, which should make the park more money, which should mean more rides, which should mean overall shorter lines for everyone.
Even if you're diametrically opposed to premium queuing, how about having one or two days per month where the admission is double but the park limits admissions such that the ride waits will *always* be shorter? I'd go for that too, although I think it wouldn't do anything for enhancing revenue or overall service.
Anyway, I hope the park people are listening. I and others like me are out there and are willing to pay much more to ride the rides. They can either stay with their equality model and perhaps lose my business altogether, or they can acknowledge it and maybe gain more of my business.
As a sidenote, for people who do find themselves in Jersey, do not EVER EVER EVER pull up to a gas station and yell, "Hey Gas Monkey! Fill it up!" they don't like that...
Kintanon
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(This post is referring specifically to Cedar Point, not amusement parks in general. Although I'm employed there, I don't speak for CP, these are just my observations)
This is not like EZ-Pass. Assuming you got EZ-Pass so you wouldn't have to wait in lanes (as opposed to just so you wouldn't have to carry toll change in your car), EZ-Pass is only really effective if you have a lane that's only for EZ-Pass; this way, you do not have to be held up by those without it. This doesn't bother other communters, since the EZ-Pass folks are not increasing their wait time by skipping ahead of them. As you mentioned, we all pay taxes to use the roads, so why should it be that those who are willing to pay more somehow have the right to increase our waiting time at toll booths? This is not a factor in EZ-Pass, which is why it is effective. This would not work for a large amusement park ride because the people who are paying extra are adding significant waiting time by legally cutting in front of those who paid regular park admission. I find this unfair to the regular guest who fairly paid their admission. Even if you had an entirely seperate line, premium payers would still use up trains and load/unload time which increases the time that the other non-premium guests have to wait. Essentially, non-premium guests are being penalized for not paying extra money. This pisses people off and is contradictory towards Cedar Point's biggest staple, guest service.
A premium pass that entitled you to much shorter lines would attract more affluent customers, which should make the park more money, which should mean more rides, which should mean overall shorter lines for everyone
In all harsh honesty parks aren't after rich folks and don't really care too much about those with money, since that's a smaller demographic. We won't cater specifically to the affluent even if they're willing to pay more money, because this will piss off the general public who don't want to spend outrageous amounts of money to not have to wait in line. When you're talking about a park as large as Cedar Point, it's going to take a LOT of these passes to actually bring in enough money to make a dent in the budget of a new ride. If you've got that many people skipping ahead of everyone else who didn't pay the premium price, chances are that they're not going to be happy and not want to come back to the park. Not only is this bad guest service, it's also bad money-wise. Bad experiences will not make guests want to come back. Bad park reviews will not help the cause either. No guests=no park.
Even if you're diametrically opposed to premium queuing, how about having one or two days per month where the admission is double but the park limits admissions such that the ride waits will *always* be shorter?
Cedar Point caters to the general public, and doubling prices of tickets goes against that. If you're that opposed to waiting in lines (understandable) then study the park and learn which days tend to have lower attendance and what times of the season to visit. Visit in May on a weekday. I assure you ride times will be minimal. Don't wait until July or August. Keep an eye of the forecast and watch for days when it rains towards the beginning of the day/morning and lets up in the afternoon, but make sure there's no lightning cells in the area.
Anyway, I hope the park people are listening. I and others like me are out there and are willing to pay much more to ride the rides.
We are. This is why we train our ride ops so much, this is why we always run as many trains as possible on the more popular rides, this is why CP is given awards for best park capacity in the world. We design rides around capacity. I definitely understand where you're coming from, and I assure the numbers are crunched and new ideas are always being considered to cut wait times without comprimising the general guest experience.
I forgot to mention that Cedar Point has a Joe Cool club. If you're a member, you can walk into the park an hour before opening time (although food stands, game stands, etc won't be up and the park will still be in the process of getting setup) and ride a few of the rides. Last year, the rides you could go on included Millenium Force and Wicked Twister. This year will probably be those two and Dragster. This is one of our solutions. You can also walk into the park an hour early if you're staying at one of CP's on-site hotels.
I disagree with your analysis of EZ-Pass -- in many cases the express lanes are only available for a portion of a freeway, meaning that people with EZ-Pass are "cutting ahead" of people without it, since while they may leave the "free" freeway behind cars without it, they re-enter when the express lane ends *ahead* of them by being able to go faster on a less crowded or shorter road. IIRC its exactly this way on the 91 freeway near Riverside.
:)
And I also question how much this would piss people off. It doesn't seem to bother anyone at Disney that some people ride with little or no queuing. If I hadn't been clued into it, I wouldn't have even *noticed* or used Disney's Fastpass.
I'm just suggesting that they extend this concept so that you get *more* of it on a given visit, and that by charging signifcantly more for it you would limit the number of people using it to a number small enough that it would have a negligable impact on the standard queue.
Futhermore, there's nothing *unfair* about it -- it'd only be unfair if the passes weren't generally available to people willing to pay for it. Or is the "theme" of Cedar Point life in the Soviet Union -- everybody stands in line for everything...
The entire highway/tollbooth metaphor never concerned the roads before or after it. The only thing we care about is the fact that you're waiting in a line.
:)
;)
Imagine that you're in a 20 minute wait for the tollbooth. You pay your taxes, etc. Now imagine that a car drives up from behind you and cuts in front of your line. He doesn't get behind you, he doesn't go to another line, he gets right in front of you. Now imagine that another car gets in front of you. And another one. Suddenly your 20 minute wait is extended by another 15 minutes. Did you not pay your taxes? Why is it you should be waiting additional time because these folks are willing to pay more? Are you saying you wouldn't be put off at all by that? If that's what you're implying, I'm sure you're in the minority. If folks want to pay extra for short waits then that's great, but it cannot add onto the waits of others (who've paid their taxes and done nothing wrong) significantly.
And I also question how much this would piss people off.
Go to a Six Flags park that has Fast Lane and watch on a busy day. I've been there and seen it. Someone actually posted one of their experiences in one of the parent posts.
I'm just suggesting that they extend this concept so that you get *more* of it on a given visit, and that by charging signifcantly more for it you would limit the number of people using it to a number small enough that it would have a negligable impact on the standard queue.
Ahhh, but we already do this to an extent. And it's free. Refer to one of my previous posts in this branch.
Futhermore, there's nothing *unfair* about it -- it'd only be unfair if the passes weren't generally available to people willing to pay for it.
The fact of the matter is that a system that would allow a lot of people to skip ahead of the others is screwing the others out of a ride. I suppose the word "unfair" isn't the correct word to use here in a rigid sense. Let's just say it would be a really shitty thing to do to our guests who expect to get on rides without an extended wait for the money they paid, and we simply won't do it.
It doesn't seem to bother anyone at Disney that some people ride with little or no queuing
Disney does something that's fundamentally different. I don't recall exactly what it is so I won't really comment on it. I BELIEVE they pretty much schedule everyone for a ride and you just come back at your scheduled time or something on that idea. Keep in mind that Disney is a theme park, as well. The rides aren't quite as important as much as the theming.
Or is the "theme" of Cedar Point life in the Soviet Union -- everybody stands in line for everything...
AH! But Cedar Point is NOT a theme park!
This seems very similar to KD (VA)'s Hypersonic XLC which uses a compressed air system to launch at 80 MPH to go up 170 ft and over a crested hill and down through some more hills before finishing. It's about a 45 second ride and very exciting (especially at the launch section with the countdown light bar).
This is like the big-daddy version of the same coaster (although the 270 twirl on the way down seems like a very cool addition). I really enjoyed the airtime at 200 ft from 80 MPH to 20 MPH flipping over the summit. I imagine the view from twice as high at 1.5 times as fast will be that much cooler.
Mordor...a magical, mythical land where women are more rare than dragons--but where every man would rather find a dragon
I am curious on why you dn't like full service gas stations?
I live in Oregon, and we have attendence that pump gas. It is seldom called 'full-service' because they only pump gas. Fukkk-sevice does windows.
After living most my life in California, I actually like not getting out in the rain to pump gas.
While I belive that it is not safer then if I pump my own gas, but it is not less safe, either.
Actually, in California, people would use the time your paying for your gas to steal your car, So I could see where having an attendant is safer.
whilke I'm thinking at it, if it employees more people, wouldn't that cut down on overall crime?
Once I say a guy spill about a gallon of gas trying to pump has own, so there is another case where it is safer to have it pumped.
And now I'm not breasthing the cancer causing fumes, well less of them. So it is safer because of that.
I could probably site many examples of things that went wrong because of somebody inproperly pumping gas.
Sure You and I can do it, but you are also relying on the guy that pulls in next to you not make any mistakes as well.
As far as roller coasters are concerned, the faster, twister, and higher, the better.
The Kruger Dunning explains most post on