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RIAA Settlement: Possible Consumer Payback
KoopaTroopa writes "Over on Ars Technica they are running a story about the RIAA handing out consumer payments as a settlement to a price-fixing class action. If you bought a recording at retail between Jan. 1, 1995, and Dec. 22, 2000, claim your money." As usual, the lawyers win a lot more than you will, but the process is pretty painless if you'd like to collect part of the settlement money; you may recall this earlier story about the settlement.
I'd rather rationalize my mp3 theft by saying CD prices are too high.
In order to get my few dollars, I have to give out all my personal info, social security number, mother's maiden name, etc, etc? No thanks. I don't care how official that web site looks; that's enough information to steal everything I own and trash my credit rating for the next thousand years.
That site has been up for months. But wait, if everyone trieds to collect, and the payment is less that $5/ person, then it goes to a charity (I'm guessing the the EFF), not the people. We can't let that happen! ;)
--
Don't sweat the petty things, and don't pet the sweaty things.
I'll just download a few CDs from a P2P and call it even.
Note that you're not guarenteed to get anything. They've apparently already settled on how much they'll pay, and it'll be divided amongst everyone who signs up. It it gets down the less than $5/person, all of it goes to charity.
Please keep the few dollars you've earned from me as I've downloaded much, much more than that and my conscience is getting to me.
Thank you.
Trolling is a art,
The cash paid by the Defendants, after the payment of attorneys' fees, litigation and Settlement administration costs, shall be distributed to consumers who purchased Music Products. The number of claims filed will determine the actual amount of the individual refund but will not exceed $20.00 per claimant. If the number of claims filed would result in refunds of less than $5.00 per claimant, there will be no cash distribution to individual consumers. Rather, the cash portion of the Settlement shall be distributed to not-for-profit, charitable, governmental or public entities to be used for music-related purposes or programs for the benefit of consumers who purchased Music Products.
This kind of settlement won't benefit consumers directly. Even if you could locate six year old receipts, the odds are pretty good you won't get a direct settlement out of this.
get 5.00 back in the laswsuit
buy 100 CDs get 5.00 back in the lawsuit...
that means I got overcharged 2 cents for each of my CDs...
how about they lower the prices instead?
Thanks to file sharing, I purchase more CDs
Thanks to the RIAA, I buy them used...
I guess we'll know when the 'identity theft' ring goes into action.
Preach it, Lamont!
"As usual, the lawyers win a lot more than you will, but the ..."
This may come as a huge surprise, but the lawyers actually earned that money. All you had to do was fill out a form on the web.
It is being spread that you will get $20 for a claim. In fact you will get $20 if less than 3.375 million people make claims because they are only paying a total of $67.5 million.
In fact, if more than 13.5 million people make claims which causes each claim to be less than $5 than everybody gets NOTHING. I wouldn't be surprised if more than 13.5 million people do make claims with all the press this story will get. The RIAA will probably try to get more press so that payments are nullified.
I'm curious to know where all the money goes if the average payment is less than $5... Do the lawyers get a week in Bermuda?
Where the Music Matters
Considering I pay the RIAA with every cdr I use, and that less than 1% of my cdr usage is for music, I feel that I am giving the RIAA enough already. That's all the justification I need.
How can this be a Class Action Suit when the RIAA has no class? Crass action would be more accurate...
they don't ask for your social security #, they ask for the last 4 digits. They also don't ask for mother's maiden name
If you're unwilling to give them your name and address, how precisely do you wish for them to send you the $$$?
Purchases of overpriced CD albums from 1995-2000 (that turned out to little more than one-hit-wonder crap): > $200
Settlement from class-action lawsuit (regarding the purchases of overpriced one-hit wonder crap):
The cost of filling out a marketing infomation form (to get your refund from one-hit wonder crap): Dead trees and spam
Trying out mp3's before wasting any more money on hard copy: Priceless
There are some things that are a ripoff. For everything else, there's P2P.
~~~
"The slave thinks he is released from bondage, only to find a stronger set of chains" - NIN
Dont get in on the suit. Next thing you know Lars Ulrich will be personally writing on you to demand 1 penny from the settlement because the price fixing made Moneygru^H^H^H^H^etallica lose
money and the money coming from the settlement will make them earn less from the distributor for their next album and soon James will be kicking in your door demanding money and spontaneously combusting all over your shiznit!
Maeryk
Feminine Protection? What is that? A chartreuse flame thrower?
I would assume they settled out of course instead of paying this as part of a judgement. If they had gone the whole distance in court they would have had to pay refunds AND stop price fixing. I haven't seen any drop in CD prices, so it's obvious they haven't changed their practices one bit.
No doubt the RIAA attornies realized they would lose the case and be forced to sell music at reasonable prices. They can't have that! So settle for a few measly millions, instead.
-- Will program for bandwidth
I don't know how much you pay, but here are the numbers for Canada. The CCFDA (Canadian Coalition for Fair Digital Access) is trying to fight it.
I can't say that I don't give a fuck. I've just run out of fuck to give.
Do you live in canada? If not, why are you using "music" CD-Rs rather then "data" ones for your music? (the only diffrence between the two is that music disks will work in special music drives, have serial copy protection (no copies of copies) and are taxed by the RIAA. Data CDs work in music players, have no SCP, and cost only a few cents, in general)
autopr0n is like, down and stuff.
It was ours to begin with. Record companies were found to be overcharging customers and the courts took action to give it back to consumers. So the lawyers did some work so they should be compensated for their work, I agree, but implying that I should have to earn my money back is rediculous!
Given that probably the number of people signing on will bring the distribution below $5, and that then the money goes to not-for-profits that benefit "the music listening public" - can OGG get some of that money to help with development costs? I'm sure even just a lowly million would help things along.
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
Somehow I feel that the number of respondants will push the per person settlement BELOW $5, so all of it will go to charity anyway.
/.)
I'd be amazed if any consumer saw a dime.
On another related note, though, I DO remember getting like $2 sent to me back in the way early 90's because I sent in the UPC symbol from my Milli Vanilli cassette when their record company got hit with a class action suit. So maybe.....
(note: I apologize for mentioning Milli Vanilli on
If you sign this you also agree in whole to the agreement, with what apears to be no future recourse.
I say *noone* sign and we fight for whats really far.
A free cd ? bah thats not fair settlement.
---- Booth was a patriot ----
as in they've given us a variation on the prisoner's dilemna -- if nobody asks for it, nobody gets it. if one person asks for it and the other refuses, then one person gets the money and the other gets screwed. if both people ask for it, nobody gets it. just goes to show the RIAA still doesn't respect us and wants us in our place -- as prisoners to their control over our entertainment.
"But remember, most lynch mobs aren't this nice." (H.Simpson)
-- Joe
yeah, but distrobution and retail markups make up a good chunk, as well. As you said, artists usually end up with squat (songwriters get paid better than artists, but artists/songwriters still get paid squat). The good, low risk money was in becoming a songwriter and NOT a musician/performer - they make 10 cents a song rather than 1 cent (you may need to adjust that number for 8 years of inflation). This rate is set by some organization, I think ASCAP in America, but it's been a while since I dealt with it.
Remember that retail stores typically double the prices, so your $15 CD is bought by them for $7.50, ~$3-4 is taken by the distributor, unless the record company is also the distributor (Time Warner, for instance), and the remaining $4.00 is split between the artist and the record company, usually 98% recording company, 2% artist. The record company then claims most of their money was spent on promotional and distrobution costs (which may also get taken out of the artist's paycheck).
Record companies claim to take the risk, which they do, to a degree, by fronting money for recording, but I seriously doubt many of them don't break even, as they still expect the artist to pay back expenses out of their 2%, and if they don't break even they "lost" money. Major artists can get 20-50% of the cash rather than 2%, but I don't know any of them (I know a lot of bankrupt bands, tho).
Holy shit, the ignorance flying around here is blinding today. Sorry to single you out, but you are one of many who seems to completely misunderstand what you are signing up for here.
1. The RIAA loses nothing. This is a lawsuit against a group of record labels. Yes, the RIAA lobbies on their behalf, but if anything this will result in the labels investing more money into the RIAA, to help insure that they don't get stung like this again over something.
2. Your signing up does not mean more money gets added to the penalty. The penalty was already settled by the ambulance-chasing lawyers who set up this class action... and it ain't much. You signing up just means the tiny fraction of the settlement that actuallly goes to those who were "damaged" by high CD prices gets divided up more thinly.
3. The settlement didn't do jack shit about high CD prices. Go to your local record store, and notice that albums that used to cost $13 about two years ago are now going for $17. Like almost all corporate class-action lawsuits, the lawyers get rich convincing you that you got "free money" coming, but the reality is that the costs of litigation and penalties are typically passed on to you, the consumer, while the handful of lawyers who suckered you into helping them make the suit look legitimate are making off like bandits... which is what they are.
If you want to fight the RIAA, give money (more than $5 would be nice) to the Electronic Frontier Foundation, or 2600's legal defense fund, or Senator Hatch's campaign fund. Signing up for this settlement just makes you a participant in the over-litigious culture we are rapidly becoming, while doing nothing about the problem other than make you feel like you are doing something about it.
Information wants to be anthropomorphized.
No, I don't know where they got these magic termination dates....
JWZ had a very good point -- this was discussed on BoingBoing, and here's what he had to say:
- "Doesn't taking their $20 payoff constitute an agreement that they have paid their debt? If they have in fact engaged in price fixing, they owe us a hell of a lot more than $20 each. I suspect that taking the $20 in hush-money will preclude one from participating in any future, similar legal action against them."
Damn skippy.Too bad I don't have Microsoft-level resources for lawyers, or I might end up owning the RIAA. (Yeah, right.) On second thought, I'd better be careful -- MS might get ideas...
The question of SSNs also came up, and was addressed -- it looks like they have a legitimate reason for asking.
"...America's great minds of today, teaching America's great minds of tomorrow. Poor bastards." -- A Beautiful Min
The Notice of Proposed Settlement is available at: http://www.musiccdsettlement.com/english/notice.ht m and includes both the individual state's AGs on the case, as well as actually listing the URL for the website itself.
Mr. Potter stated that the detail of information is to ensure that fradulent claims aren't filed -- primarily by attempting to prevent the same person from filing multiple times.
I suggested they put in a privacy notice. We'll see.
I also warned him of the impending Slashdotting. He didn't know what I meant. hehe
I wonder if any one noticed that the settlement was for 67 MILLION dollars? That means 13 MILLION people have to sign up for it before it goes below 5 bucks a person. I like Slashdot, but I dont' think there are that many readers. If less than three million people sign up, which seems reasonable to say, everyone gets Twenty bucks. Cool. Besides, anyone who is a REAL freak about their personal information would have a PO BOX, and wouldn't care. Amateurs.
Thank you, laywers! I can retire now.
"I don't know how much you pay, but here are the numbers for Canada [ccfda.ca]. The CCFDA (Canadian Coalition for Fair Digital Access) is trying to fight it. "
I read recently that they've collected over 28 million, but none of it has yet to reach musicians like they claimed it would.
I didn't exactly have a stunned expression on my face when I read that. I'm sorry, but I don't remember where I read it unless it was on Wired.com within the last week.
"Derp de derp."
The companies, including Universal Music, Sony Music, Warner Music, Bertelsmann's BMG Music and EMI Group, plus retailers Musicland Stores, Trans World Entertainment and Tower Records....NOT the RIAA. Although that group about covers it. Do a search before posting the story.
Gorkman
It could be worse. Norway actually had to pass legislation to change the tax law so you wouldn't be liable for more than 100% of your income. Apparently it was happening all too often.
You are in a maze of twisty little passages, all alike.
So, what do you bet the defendants will publicize this heavily and get enough claimants to drop below $5/claimant? Then, they'll get the money funneled into not-for-profit, charaitable, etc. organizations aligned with the distributors and the RIAA. They'll lose money out of the general fund, but it'll get pushed back into other organizations they control.
Wait and see...
I'm going to put in a claim, then use that $20 to support the EFF (or maybe a different consumer-rights organization). Let's use the record companies' money against them!
The Mongrel Dogs Who Teach
You know ... it would be just my luck to get part of the "Non-Cash Consideration" in the form of Britteny Spears CD Collection ...
Karma? Karma? I don't need no stinkin' karma.
Make sure *nobody* signs up for this. At all. We all know how hard this will be, since everyone and their mother, and their mother's cousin loves "free money". But really, we're just saying, "Hey, it's ok to rip us off some more."
If no one agrees to the settlement, then perhaps the courts, when they try to see if the settlement is fair, will realize that it is not, and that the price fixing must be stopped.
And then I sign up for the refund, and being the only person signed up, I walk away with a cool $25 mil. Muaahahahhahahahahahahhahahaha. *cough* Ignore that last part.
Jake
Dating: while( 1 ){ call_girl(); get_rejected(); drink_40(); } return 0;
At the bottom of my sig, you'll see the mag I donate my webmastering skills too. We're a local zine for the silicon valley music scene.
.5 owner of the zine. When we went to the different bay area wherehouse music stores today, we found out some alarming news.
Before ppl ask "SV has a music scene?" remember, bands like green day come out of here. Our music scene is totally different than that of L.A.'s a.k.a. Hollywood. I can't describe it, because I see everything as data, but I can tell you what the musicians are fearing.
So today, i'm riding around delivering the latest issue of Zero with one of our big bosses. Boss delivering zines you ask? It's hard times, everyone is pulling double effort.
Anyways, this cat is a musician, and
All Wherehouse music stores around our area are shutting down... We have noticed a trend too, less people in other music stores.
So who's to blame? Napster? The economy? Pirates?
Well, my partner started asking questions about the technology. He's what I would call a reforming luddite (yeah strong words but he'd agree with me) "Isn't there some way they could make a CD so it's uncopyable?" he asked. I explained to him as long as there was some sort of digital, to a speaker coil coversion, the RIAA will never be able to stamp out piracy.
"Well who the fuck would want to download a shitty copy of a song then!" he chirped.
"The same fucks that would bring a camera into AOTC's, compress it to mpeg and share it over kazaa" I replied.
Stumped, he went back to his first question. After repeating that there had to be some way of doing it 3 times I answered..
"Yeah, if they could convince everyone to replace their ears with DRM enabled digital implants, then yeah the RIAA has a chance"
Well, he got the point after that. So he moved onto "How do you stamp out P2P?"
I put it into another analogy for him. Napster with it's central peer topology is much like a football team with 1 quarterback. You sack the quarterback.. You sack the network.
"So the RIAA can just sack kazaa right?"
"No, Kazaa would be the equivelent of every player on the team being both QB and reciever"
See, our zine stays alive by record lables having the money to buy adspace from us. If the record lables are losing money from P2P it affects us because they've yet to evolve to the net.
"What should they do?"
Personally, I think the record lables should ditch CD production altogether now. They should make songs freely downloadable. Fuck it, cut their losses.
But rather than look at it like a loss, the record industry should take a Las Vegas approach to it. Just use the music as a "comp" to milk money out of people in other ways.
For instance, that $50 dollar green day ticket, fuck it, if people won't buy the albums anymore, double it. I think people wouldn't care if they had to pay more for live performances. I'm biased because I do get in for free, and don't have any money to pay for tickets anyways. I'm 30 years old in feburary and am perfectly content to staying at home.
The market is really for 14-25 year olds. Those are the people with expendable cash. They live at home, don't have a mortgage, and can afford $100 bucks to see a live performance. With the rate of inflation over the last 10 years, $100 doesn't really seem like a lot to me to see a big headliner band if I had no financial obligations.
I'm the oldest of 6, my youngest siblings are more at home in the computer enviroment than I ever was at their age. The RIAA doesn't realize this yet, but their biggest age group has a huge understanding of internet distribution, and they will never be able to beat it. That's just an unfortunate fact about it.
So to recap the RIAA should...
Cut back CD production,
Raise the price of live performances
Focus on promotion more than CD distribution.
Well, it's 3:30, and after a night of bouncing 300lb pac islanders from my karaoke bar, I need some sleep. Slash you in the morning and I hope your friday was as fun as mine.
--Toq