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RIAA Settlement: Possible Consumer Payback
KoopaTroopa writes "Over on Ars Technica they are running a story about the RIAA handing out consumer payments as a settlement to a price-fixing class action. If you bought a recording at retail between Jan. 1, 1995, and Dec. 22, 2000, claim your money." As usual, the lawyers win a lot more than you will, but the process is pretty painless if you'd like to collect part of the settlement money; you may recall this earlier story about the settlement.
I'd rather rationalize my mp3 theft by saying CD prices are too high.
In order to get my few dollars, I have to give out all my personal info, social security number, mother's maiden name, etc, etc? No thanks. I don't care how official that web site looks; that's enough information to steal everything I own and trash my credit rating for the next thousand years.
That site has been up for months. But wait, if everyone trieds to collect, and the payment is less that $5/ person, then it goes to a charity (I'm guessing the the EFF), not the people. We can't let that happen! ;)
--
Don't sweat the petty things, and don't pet the sweaty things.
I'll just download a few CDs from a P2P and call it even.
Note that you're not guarenteed to get anything. They've apparently already settled on how much they'll pay, and it'll be divided amongst everyone who signs up. It it gets down the less than $5/person, all of it goes to charity.
I was a bit uncomfortable with the idea of giving them my date of birth and the last four digits of my Social Security Number.
I saw this story on Wired a couple days ago. I already filled out the form online to join the settlement group. It was a suprisingly simple process...name, address, email address and click accept on a few things. You don't even need a recipt. Here's the link for those interested.
For some reason when I submitted this EXACT same story a few days ago it was rejected in under 10 minutes. Oh well, can't win 'em all.
So only Americans pay too much for CDs? Damn :(
So how many of you that qualify actually have receipts to prove your purchases during the period. Like most people I save my receipts from big ticket items for warranty and insurance purposes, but CD receipts usually get tossed. The RIAA will probably laugh it's way to the bank on this.
Great, now that it has been posted here, I'll never get my $5. amount per person = total settlement / number of claims If too many people sign up for the refund, making the amount given per person less than $5, no one will get the money, it will all go to charity. Rat farts. I wanted a refund from those money grubbing bastards.
today is spelling optional day.
Please keep the few dollars you've earned from me as I've downloaded much, much more than that and my conscience is getting to me.
Thank you.
Trolling is a art,
The cash paid by the Defendants, after the payment of attorneys' fees, litigation and Settlement administration costs, shall be distributed to consumers who purchased Music Products. The number of claims filed will determine the actual amount of the individual refund but will not exceed $20.00 per claimant. If the number of claims filed would result in refunds of less than $5.00 per claimant, there will be no cash distribution to individual consumers. Rather, the cash portion of the Settlement shall be distributed to not-for-profit, charitable, governmental or public entities to be used for music-related purposes or programs for the benefit of consumers who purchased Music Products.
This kind of settlement won't benefit consumers directly. Even if you could locate six year old receipts, the odds are pretty good you won't get a direct settlement out of this.
get 5.00 back in the laswsuit
buy 100 CDs get 5.00 back in the lawsuit...
that means I got overcharged 2 cents for each of my CDs...
how about they lower the prices instead?
Thanks to file sharing, I purchase more CDs
Thanks to the RIAA, I buy them used...
I guess we'll know when the 'identity theft' ring goes into action.
Preach it, Lamont!
"As usual, the lawyers win a lot more than you will, but the ..."
This may come as a huge surprise, but the lawyers actually earned that money. All you had to do was fill out a form on the web.
It is being spread that you will get $20 for a claim. In fact you will get $20 if less than 3.375 million people make claims because they are only paying a total of $67.5 million.
In fact, if more than 13.5 million people make claims which causes each claim to be less than $5 than everybody gets NOTHING. I wouldn't be surprised if more than 13.5 million people do make claims with all the press this story will get. The RIAA will probably try to get more press so that payments are nullified.
I'm curious to know where all the money goes if the average payment is less than $5... Do the lawyers get a week in Bermuda?
Where the Music Matters
I purchased multipule CD's through that time period. It was about the time I got my first CD player. The amount of CD's I bought was 40-50. If they did price fix 1-2$ per CD then I figure I am entitled to a lot more. I would actually rather they be forced to sell CD's for 1 year at a fixed price of 12$ Susgested retail price. Also I imagine you give up certain rights if you agree to the pay off. I would rather excude myself and get some friends also perhaps to let the judge see the judgement is unfair and is only good for the RIAA and the lawyers.
-THIS SPACE FOR RENT!
Considering I pay the RIAA with every cdr I use, and that less than 1% of my cdr usage is for music, I feel that I am giving the RIAA enough already. That's all the justification I need.
How can this be a Class Action Suit when the RIAA has no class? Crass action would be more accurate...
Over those years. At $20 per recording, that works out to, hrm, oh, only about a quarter million dollars :P
autopr0n is like, down and stuff.
It would be nice to have a link to the actual article instead of the frontpage of the site. Granted, the article is currently on the frontpage but won't be for long. Here is a permalink to the actual article.
I really hate signatures, but go to my website.
they don't ask for your social security #, they ask for the last 4 digits. They also don't ask for mother's maiden name
If you're unwilling to give them your name and address, how precisely do you wish for them to send you the $$$?
The cash paid by the Defendants, after the payment of attorneys' fees, litigation and Settlement administration costs, shall be distributed to consumers who purchased Music Products. The number of claims filed will determine the actual amount of the individual refund but will not exceed $20.00 per claimant. If the number of claims filed would result in refunds of less than $5.00 per claimant, there will be no cash distribution to individual consumers. Rather, the cash portion of the Settlement shall be distributed to not-for-profit, charitable, governmental or public entities to be used for music-related purposes or programs for the benefit of consumers who purchased Music Products.
So now that this is on /. we all know the # of claims filed will result in a refund of less than $5. So now what happens? The money gets donated to pro-RIAA groups, yipee!
Purchases of overpriced CD albums from 1995-2000 (that turned out to little more than one-hit-wonder crap): > $200
Settlement from class-action lawsuit (regarding the purchases of overpriced one-hit wonder crap):
The cost of filling out a marketing infomation form (to get your refund from one-hit wonder crap): Dead trees and spam
Trying out mp3's before wasting any more money on hard copy: Priceless
There are some things that are a ripoff. For everything else, there's P2P.
~~~
"The slave thinks he is released from bondage, only to find a stronger set of chains" - NIN
If enough people sign up that settlement/people is smaller than $5/person then no individuals get any money (and it all goes to charitable groups and the government). From what I can tell, the magic # is 8.8 million.
I was actually hoping Slashdot wouldn't get wind of this, so I'd have a better chance at getting $20. Oh well. (If I were one of those charities I sure would be working hard to sign people up for the settlement.)
Dont get in on the suit. Next thing you know Lars Ulrich will be personally writing on you to demand 1 penny from the settlement because the price fixing made Moneygru^H^H^H^H^etallica lose
money and the money coming from the settlement will make them earn less from the distributor for their next album and soon James will be kicking in your door demanding money and spontaneously combusting all over your shiznit!
Maeryk
Feminine Protection? What is that? A chartreuse flame thrower?
PS. Beware of those rogue Birthday Carolers!!
Even if you only see $5, it adds up to a large penalty against RIAA.
This goes right in line with those Sprint Spectrum settlements- where the settlement "deal" was worse than what you could get in Radio Shack! (yep, I got that one in the mail, got excited, checked the prices, and decided not to opt in)
It isn't so much to really re-imburse the consumers, but to hurt the corporations first and foremost.
In the future, I would want to not be isolated from my friends in the Space Station.
I would assume they settled out of course instead of paying this as part of a judgement. If they had gone the whole distance in court they would have had to pay refunds AND stop price fixing. I haven't seen any drop in CD prices, so it's obvious they haven't changed their practices one bit.
No doubt the RIAA attornies realized they would lose the case and be forced to sell music at reasonable prices. They can't have that! So settle for a few measly millions, instead.
-- Will program for bandwidth
I'll tell you why: Because at the very least we can get some money out of the thieves that today are trying to screw us in other ways. Its too bad we can't use the money to fight the RIAA and their co-conspiritors. I'd waive my refund for such a cause. I'd love to see them punished, and brought to task for their misdeeds.
Personal Strap-On Aircraft for Auction on eBay
I don't know how much you pay, but here are the numbers for Canada. The CCFDA (Canadian Coalition for Fair Digital Access) is trying to fight it.
I can't say that I don't give a fuck. I've just run out of fuck to give.
and then keep on pirating!
Do you live in canada? If not, why are you using "music" CD-Rs rather then "data" ones for your music? (the only diffrence between the two is that music disks will work in special music drives, have serial copy protection (no copies of copies) and are taxed by the RIAA. Data CDs work in music players, have no SCP, and cost only a few cents, in general)
autopr0n is like, down and stuff.
The only way no one gets anything is if more then 13 million people claim. Slashdot does not have 13 million visitors.
autopr0n is like, down and stuff.
It was ours to begin with. Record companies were found to be overcharging customers and the courts took action to give it back to consumers. So the lawyers did some work so they should be compensated for their work, I agree, but implying that I should have to earn my money back is rediculous!
Given that probably the number of people signing on will bring the distribution below $5, and that then the money goes to not-for-profits that benefit "the music listening public" - can OGG get some of that money to help with development costs? I'm sure even just a lowly million would help things along.
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
Thanks for the support. :)
As for the facts: The Notice of Proposed Settlement specifies, "The attorneys' fees and expenses sought by Plaintiff States and Counsel for the Plaintiff Settlement Class will not exceed 21.5% of the Settlement Fund and 10.1% of the total Settlement." Either way, that's a lot less than "win a lot more of the settlement than you will"; and it's reimbursement, not windfall.
If you live in New York or Florida, note that your State Attorney General was a principal co-counsel, meaning if they did not recover fees, the cost would come out of your pocket as a taxpayer. Perhaps there were side agreements with other states to share the expenses, given that the settlement affects all states.
Remember also that the counsel took the case with fees contingent on winning. The wins have to pay for the losses, and inadequate awards only make it harder for attorneys -- including AG's -- to take on meritorious but difficult cases.
I will make a comment about politicians -- Eliot Spitzer is quite the crusader, isn't he?
If I DO get a check from the settlement, I'm framing it and putting it on my wall. For once the record companies are paying ME! :)
(Nevermind the various p2p networks... They're for sharing non-copyrighted material of course.)
Somehow I feel that the number of respondants will push the per person settlement BELOW $5, so all of it will go to charity anyway.
/.)
I'd be amazed if any consumer saw a dime.
On another related note, though, I DO remember getting like $2 sent to me back in the way early 90's because I sent in the UPC symbol from my Milli Vanilli cassette when their record company got hit with a class action suit. So maybe.....
(note: I apologize for mentioning Milli Vanilli on
I saw this advertisement in the paper, I could get 13 cds for only a penny; of course, you have to buy 3 more at the "regular" membership prices. Should I average the cost or only include the ones I paid full price for, when submitting my claim?
"This isn't a study in computer science, its a study in human behavior"
In a perfect world, the RIAA would care. Hell, in a perfect world the RIAA wouldn't exist.
Either way, the RIAA isn't going to give a damn about what the consumer wants.
Cruising the internet on my TI-99/4A @ a whopping 300 baud!
my sister-in-law emailed me not 1 hour ago about this exact thing.
I suggested she post it to slashdot, and she was like -- "Are you kidding? I want my $20 -- I don't want to share it with those geeks!"
If you sign this you also agree in whole to the agreement, with what apears to be no future recourse.
I say *noone* sign and we fight for whats really far.
A free cd ? bah thats not fair settlement.
---- Booth was a patriot ----
You didn't even pay attention to the site you were cutting and pasting from. No receipts or other documents are required, and it is limit one claim per consumer. And I personally can guarantee that I have purchased at least one major-label CD during the perios in question.
Speak for yourself; unless more than two million people file a claim, everybody who bothers spending 60 seconds to fill out the simple form gets a check for $20. I'll take that.
as in they've given us a variation on the prisoner's dilemna -- if nobody asks for it, nobody gets it. if one person asks for it and the other refuses, then one person gets the money and the other gets screwed. if both people ask for it, nobody gets it. just goes to show the RIAA still doesn't respect us and wants us in our place -- as prisoners to their control over our entertainment.
"But remember, most lynch mobs aren't this nice." (H.Simpson)
-- Joe
yeah, but distrobution and retail markups make up a good chunk, as well. As you said, artists usually end up with squat (songwriters get paid better than artists, but artists/songwriters still get paid squat). The good, low risk money was in becoming a songwriter and NOT a musician/performer - they make 10 cents a song rather than 1 cent (you may need to adjust that number for 8 years of inflation). This rate is set by some organization, I think ASCAP in America, but it's been a while since I dealt with it.
Remember that retail stores typically double the prices, so your $15 CD is bought by them for $7.50, ~$3-4 is taken by the distributor, unless the record company is also the distributor (Time Warner, for instance), and the remaining $4.00 is split between the artist and the record company, usually 98% recording company, 2% artist. The record company then claims most of their money was spent on promotional and distrobution costs (which may also get taken out of the artist's paycheck).
Record companies claim to take the risk, which they do, to a degree, by fronting money for recording, but I seriously doubt many of them don't break even, as they still expect the artist to pay back expenses out of their 2%, and if they don't break even they "lost" money. Major artists can get 20-50% of the cash rather than 2%, but I don't know any of them (I know a lot of bankrupt bands, tho).
No, I don't know where they got these magic termination dates....
JWZ had a very good point -- this was discussed on BoingBoing, and here's what he had to say:
- "Doesn't taking their $20 payoff constitute an agreement that they have paid their debt? If they have in fact engaged in price fixing, they owe us a hell of a lot more than $20 each. I suspect that taking the $20 in hush-money will preclude one from participating in any future, similar legal action against them."
Damn skippy.Too bad I don't have Microsoft-level resources for lawyers, or I might end up owning the RIAA. (Yeah, right.) On second thought, I'd better be careful -- MS might get ideas...
The question of SSNs also came up, and was addressed -- it looks like they have a legitimate reason for asking.
"...America's great minds of today, teaching America's great minds of tomorrow. Poor bastards." -- A Beautiful Min
if i go out to eat, i'm giving them money for the food. the server is getting paid with that money.
if i go to a (for all intents and purposes) anonymous web site that's HANDING OUT MONEY, i think there's reason to be much more skeptical about disclosing details.
web sites are known for harvesting contact information for the purpose of reselling it. resteraunts and dumpster divers aren't.
i think you're confusing the fear of spam with the fear of identity theft.
From a little searching it turns out that Xiph is the non-profit corperation that perhaps could seek funds from this settlement. Anyone know if they are on it?
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
The Notice of Proposed Settlement is available at: http://www.musiccdsettlement.com/english/notice.ht m and includes both the individual state's AGs on the case, as well as actually listing the URL for the website itself.
Mr. Potter stated that the detail of information is to ensure that fradulent claims aren't filed -- primarily by attempting to prevent the same person from filing multiple times.
I suggested they put in a privacy notice. We'll see.
I also warned him of the impending Slashdotting. He didn't know what I meant. hehe
Fuck the judge that allowed a settlement in which consumers get a tiny fraction of the price-fixing harm, while the attorneys (let me remind you!) get millions.
Earned it? The only work they did was get RIAA member companies to pay them a small amount relative to the total harm to get them off the hook. It sounds much more like collusion than anything else.
(Of course, I took my $20, because it's better than nothing. But I'll send it all to either EFF or SomaFM.)
sulli
RTFJ.
While the lack of financial knowledge on Slashdot IS amazing, the price of CDs has been trending up with inflation, not staying constant. You'd be hard pressed to find a new CD for less than $17 now at retail, compared to $13 or so a few years ago.
In Soviet Russia, YOU payback RIAA!
Um, Wait a sec...
Damn lameness filter, won't let me post allcaps.
in soviet russia, allcaps post prevents lameness filter from working!
Wow, look who woke up on the retarded side of the bed. It's dislike for the RIAA being expressed. And no, I don't hate all Americans, just you :)
Another piece of Old News.
Lookee here:
2003-01-08 01:37:29 Buy a CD, get $20 back (articles,music) (rejected)
I want to delete my account but Slashdot doesn't allow it.
You may also recall that I submitted this story on Dec 17th, and it was rejected. Hey, I understand you reject a lot of submissions, but to have something like this happen burns me just a little.
I know, I am not supposed to bitch about having a submission rejected, but I am just curious how the process works. I thought I knew, but I guess I don't.
My beliefs do not require that you agree with them.
Anyone seen my low uid? last seen 10 years ago while panning the #@$# out of Taco's 'web based discussion system'
Parent is correct:
Whether you claim your money or not, you are a part of the law suit class, and as such, you will lose your right to any recourse once the settlement is finished.
Unless... you specifically write to exclude yourself from the settlement. The deadline is in March.
Donate background CPU time to fight cancer.
I wonder if any one noticed that the settlement was for 67 MILLION dollars? That means 13 MILLION people have to sign up for it before it goes below 5 bucks a person. I like Slashdot, but I dont' think there are that many readers. If less than three million people sign up, which seems reasonable to say, everyone gets Twenty bucks. Cool. Besides, anyone who is a REAL freak about their personal information would have a PO BOX, and wouldn't care. Amateurs.
Fairness Hearing: The Court will hold a Fairness Hearing to determine if the proposed Settlement is fair, reasonable and adequate on May 22, 2003, at 10:00 a.m. in Courtroom 2, United States Courthouse, 156 Federal Street, Portland, Maine 04101.
You're not guaranteed this money. If, in the hearing, it is determined that the settlement is not fair, reasonable, and/or adequate, you might not see a dime.
Thank you, laywers! I can retire now.
They would send the letters in bulk form, which is MUCH less than $.37 per letter.
For instance, even if the intended receiver is honest and trustworthy, my personal information is being transmitted in the clear.
As lawyers, they are supposed to be aware that requiring my SSN is a violation of law.
This is clearly paranoia on my part, but I'm OK with that.
2003-01-07 17:12:21 update on Minimum Advertised Price Antitrust settlement (articles,music) (rejected)
i see numerous other people submitted this as well, i can't believe it's taken this long to get this story posted here. this is the 'stick it to the man' the readers here have been waiting for. all the negative riaa articles, and the one that allows people to take hard action nearly gets lost.
"not-for-profit, charitable, governmental or public entities to be used for music-related purposes" ...so they pay lawyers and give themselves what's left over?
If you think education is expensive, you should try ignorance -- Derek Bok, president of Harvard
Definately correct.
Wow, I feel your pain. I bought a fire-safe and took it to work to keep insurance documents and stuff in, just in case something started a fire at home.
Do you have a backup plan in effect now?
$20 is only one CD. fF you bought say 50 CDs since 1995, you're getting screwed. If you bought 10 CDs since 1995, and get that $20, you're still getting screwed.... Add to that you have to fork out all sorts of personal info, it's really not worth it.
If you read the fine print, if the division goes below $5 per person then they make a charitable donation and we all just lump it...Thanks for screwing everyone else slashdot.
errr....umm...*whooosh* *whoosh* Is this thing on ?
Why?
Read the rules. If enough people file a claim and the money being paid is less than $5 per person, then the RIAA pays all the money to a charity. I'll lay 100 bucks that this is what happens.
Ahhhh..... satisfaction.
.
So, your friends make $18,720 $/year after taxes. (using the $17 per cd, 2 hours of work, so that's approx $9 after taxes. so $9 $/hr * 40 hr/week * 52 week/year)
a w.career.html
assuming 30% in taxes (and thats a STRETCH, at this rate, your looking more like 20-25% in taxes), thats ~ $26,742 $/year.
Now you want me to equate the "average joe" salary of 26k with that of the average lawyer?
okay- from: http://www.career.cornell.edu/students/grad/law/l
Employment statistics for the class of 1999 law graduates, which totaled 39,054, reveal the following*:
The average starting salary was $59,125; the median salary was $50,000.
Approximately 36% of salaries were below $40,000.
Salaries of more than $70,000 accounted for fewer than one-third of the salaries reported.
The salary of $40,000 was reported most frequently.
Approximately 55% of the class chose private practice in law firms.
About 27% took positions in public service, including judicial clerkships, government agencies, and public interest organizations.
Graduates entering business accounted for slightly over 13%.
Just under 11% of graduates were employed in non-legal positions.
While a corporate lawyer may earn $90,000 the first year in a private firm, he/she may also work twelve hours a day, six or seven days a week.
So lets break that down- the high of $90,000 is for 12 hours a day, 6-7 days a week!
thats 90,000 for 72-84 hours a week, as opposed to the 40 estimated for your friends.
so lets take out 30% in taxes- $63,000 a year.
Divide that by 84 hours a week (12 hours *7 days) *52 weeks a year=
63,000 $ per year / 4368 hours per year = $14.4 per hour.
So for extra education and no social life, they make $5 more an hour than your friends.
Lets take into account the higher level of education necessary to become a lawyer. Thats at LEAST 3 years to get your JD (which is requred by most BAR associations). Not to mention the loans you take on- thats approx $100k in loans (it goes higher). Also note, those loans accure interest before you even graduate and can get a job.
Is that $5 gonna pay off that 100k+ loan? If our lawyer is working 4368 hours, that's only 21k.
And those loans are still accruing interest.
In the future, I would want to not be isolated from my friends in the Space Station.
The RIAA could keep all this personal info and use it to track down pirates! After all, people who sign up for this claims thing online are about 100 times more likely than the general population to have pirated music.
Repeal the DMCA!
First off, they do not ask for mother's maiden name, or full SSN. They do want your Date of Birth, and the last 4 digits of your social.
Also, their site is unencrypted, except for that data-entry frame. That frame is over https, and is using 128-bit RC4, so that shouldn't be an issue.
What is rather unfortunate is the lack of disclosure on the firm's privacy policy... For the lawyers reading, is this protected due to existing client-lawyer legislation?
"I don't know how much you pay, but here are the numbers for Canada [ccfda.ca]. The CCFDA (Canadian Coalition for Fair Digital Access) is trying to fight it. "
I read recently that they've collected over 28 million, but none of it has yet to reach musicians like they claimed it would.
I didn't exactly have a stunned expression on my face when I read that. I'm sorry, but I don't remember where I read it unless it was on Wired.com within the last week.
"Derp de derp."
I'm willing to guess they are taking a 50% cut of the settlement, so it's more like if 1.3 million people sign up then they will start cutting down the rebate from $20 till it gets to $5. Also you have to take into consideration that they will have postage and checking fees, plus printing and processing of all these checks.. that's not coming out of their pocket, it's coming out of the settlement money.
Oh and you can bet the Laywers aren't takin their cut in 'free music', cash only! For a small to medium firm this can be a huge cash cow. Put a bunch of laywers on the case for a year or so, and make about $30 million... sweet!
-b
And to add insult to injury, check out the damages:And this is supposed to be a penalty? To a multi-billion dollar industry? No thanks, I'll wait until something with teeth comes along.Make it $200, and maybe I'll start listening.
Please note that this is a secure website. Any information you exchange through this site cannot be viewed by anyone else on the Internet. For more details on the security of this website, please see the Verisign Secure Site logo at the bottom right corner of this page.
t .h tm
The verisign logo doesn't mean anything when you're URL looks like this:
http://www.musiccdsettlement.com/english/defaul
Where's the https?!?!?!
Second, it seems entirely unreasonable to make the amount each victim gets based on how many victims there are. If they broke the law and I am an injured party with a valid claim on the settlement, how does it matter in the least whether one or a billion others were also injured? Essentially this means that a company can break the law and illegally over charge millions of customers and it costs them the same as if they did it to a handful. I love the tone that sends--I might as well screw over as many people as possible, if I'm caught, I pay the same price either way.
Finally this statement got my attention:
In other words, the $67 million is actually $67 million minus their attorney's fees, administrative fees and whatever they can tack on. Tell me this, how the harry hell can you take your attorney fees out of the settlement you're supposed to pay to your victims? So in the end, it might be more like $40 million or something for overcharging consumers by $480 million AND no admission of guilt or consent decree so they can continue the practice as if nothing happened. Wow, now there's a business model the VC's should be drooling over!Vote Quimby.
A few points:
- First off, this lawsuit is *NOT* about price fixing. It is about record labels enforcing a minimum advertised pricing (MAP). This is when the labels would say that stores can't advertise X cd for less than X price.
- Second, MAP isn't actually that bad of a thing from the perspective of small retailers. See, since this ruling, large stores like Best Buy will commonly advertise 'New CD X' at $8.99, far below their cost. This is done just to get people in the store. It's called loss leading, and something that only stores with deep pockets can do. Because of the price it's likely that all the discs are sold out, but the people are already there, so they are likely to purchase something. This hurts small retailers by drawing buisness from small retailers to the large stores. Small retailers can compete price wise on CDs when everything is normally priced, but there is no way a $1000/day store can compete with an extremely diversified $25,000/day.
Oh, and yes, I do work at a small, independant record store. And for point of reference, cost on new major label CDs typically varies between $11 and $15. CDs are typically marked up about 25%. Not very much, eh? Oh, and remember, it's the major labels primaraly, then the RIAA secondaraly that are screwing you. Not the retailer. Support independant labels and stores, lest you lose the ability to find non-mainstream music with much ease.
(warning: conspiracy theory)
I always knew there was a good reason to switch to thermal receipts on cash registers. The answer? To reduce your liability in a consumer class-action suit! If you've ever gone back and looked at a thermal-printed receipt from even just a few months ago, it's either nearly all black or all white. BASTARDS!
main(){char I,l,O[]={'-',1-1,0,(1<<5)-1,0+'-',-10-1,-10,11-0,
someone please mod parent way the fuck up. also someone should post a link to the USA equivalent of those levy charges. it's insane.
Extraordinary Vacations. Exceptional Prices
Ok, this is insane:
Currently the charge raises the price of data CDs by 21 cents
I can buy cd-r's for about 30 cents in bulk in many stores. I'm paying almost 70% of that price as a tax? Can you say cash cow? This is almost as bad as gasoline and cigarette taxes.
Oh wait, I live in Canada, home of the 95% tax structure...
Endless arguments over trivial contradictions in books written by ignorant savages to explain thunder in the dark.
The companies, including Universal Music, Sony Music, Warner Music, Bertelsmann's BMG Music and EMI Group, plus retailers Musicland Stores, Trans World Entertainment and Tower Records....NOT the RIAA. Although that group about covers it. Do a search before posting the story.
Gorkman
No, they get nearly all of the money from their album sales. Their management company Q Prime discussed this in an interview that appeared in a recent issue of "So What?" magazine. They have one of the best contracts in the business because they renegotiated it sometime around 1990, give or take a year or two.
Now go away.
As if. Try 2-2.5%.
paintball
Of course that's only one law school for another example -
;>)
Columbia Law:
The median starting salary for all graduates is $94,000
Stanford
New graduates from Ivy League schools hired at firms with national practices can earn $70,000 - $85,000 in their first year, but the majority of new hires earn in the $40,000 - $60,000 range. Starting salaries are somewhat lower in the corporate and public sectors. Eighth-year associates can earn between $85,000-$113,500 per year.
less well known law schools,
Case Western Reserve
The average salary for Class of 2001 graduates was over $75,000.
Of course this is for recent grads 1-2 years as were the statistics you quoted. One of the benefits of a specialized degree is that the upper bounds on individual salary is much higher, and one of the reasons the recent grads are working thier asses off at 90k per year is that if/when they make partner they'll be rolling in the cash (maybe working just as hard, but at a substantial boost in earnings)
We can also check salary reports for an estimate of what you should be looking for as a more experienced attorney,
Career Journal
Associate General Counsel working in US - National now earns an average salary of 310,054. Half of those in this position would earn between 230,122 and 332,812.
Position Description:
Conduct criminal and civil lawsuits, draw up legal documents, advise clients as to legal rights, and practice other phases of law. May represent client in court or before quasi-judicial or administrative agencies of government. May specialize in a single area of law, such as patent law, corporate law, or criminal law.
(although general counsel probably work for the side that lost this case, but hey they still got paid, actually by CD sales
Department of Labor statistics for all lawyers
Area - All United States
Occupation - Lawyers
Level - Overall
DataSource - Published
Year/Period - 2000/Jul
Hourly Rate - $38.70
Of course this data includes public lawyers which are paid significantly less than corporate/private practice lawyers in general, and includes all levels of experience.
And this survey of law firm compensation:
Law Department Compensation Benchmarking survey - Total cash compensation
Attorney - 2001 - $120,252
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I think making the RIAA pay is a good start. But I think it'd be more worthwhile to take away their ability to refuse returns on opened CD's.
The reason why their price fixing is do damaging is that the consumer is left with no way to protest the price. If a CD sucks, they're less likely to return it if the price is okay than they are if the price is ridiculous. It would force them to be careful about what they charge. If you give the customer a way to say "I'm not satisfied", then you give the RIAA very strong incentive to make sure everything's fair.
so lets break this down- inspite of the superstars who make partner or general counsel, etc.- we're still talking 90-120k not a crazy difference. And given a BILLABLE hour route of 2000 (which is more like 3-4k actual) though they make a lot of money, all they do is work. And lets not forget the cost of their education as well. So if you have to pay off loans, pay for dry cleaning and maid service, someone to bring you food, only to HOPE that you make partner, which odds are you won't.
Sure, lawyers get paid. But they in turn pay for it.
In the future, I would want to not be isolated from my friends in the Space Station.
But far, far more people have "data" drives then actual music-only CD recorders. And for the vast majority of people out there they are either going to make a straight ISO copy, which would sound the same, or take the PCM data and make their own mix CD... also sounding the same.
There might be some degradation if they used MP3 compression for the tons of MP3 supporting players out there, but then, they'll be sticking 250 songs on there, not 20.
As for flexibility, I thought they were talking about the actual flexibility of the plastic (there is a difference with some CDs in this respect) or something. Being able to work with rare, crippled, expensive equipment isn't really that useful for most people, and sounding better when using even rarer, more expensive equipment is even less-so.
autopr0n is like, down and stuff.
Fist off these are NOT all kids who are 20-25.
These are people graduationg LAW SCHOOL- some don't start till their 30 our later. At the University of Iowa the average INCOMING CLASS age is 26- add three and you have average graduating class age of 29. (check thier website, check all the law school's websites. the median incoming age spans 23-29. Add 3 for graduation.)
Actually, thing have gotten much worse. Look at your own NALP report- This 28th consecutive report documents the first decrease in the employment rate of new law graduates since 1993, with a figure of 90% of graduates for whom employment status was known. (emphasis mine)
Salaries were inflated SKY HIGH due to the tech bubble. As such, that $125 is going to be the intro level salary for SPECIALIZED lawyers a looong time.
In addition there have been a great number of layoffs and not too many golden parachutes.
For example, Dechert's DC office let go of 9 first years (Right before their christmas party, no less!) this past December. And there has been belt tightening all around.
But lets not forget that the $125 is for specialized LARGE FIRM lawyers ONLY.
Also, they work 60-80 hours a week!
My initial figures are still adequate- they don't clear $20 an hour after taxes!
Fresh out of college, during an economic downturn... Poor kids!
To recap- 1- they are graduates who are probably older than you who are NOT KIDS, they are not fresh out of college, they are fresh out of LAW school with another 100k+ debt, who will have to work at least 60 hours a week.
If they have it so great- why aren't YOU going to law school?!
In the future, I would want to not be isolated from my friends in the Space Station.
So, what do you bet the defendants will publicize this heavily and get enough claimants to drop below $5/claimant? Then, they'll get the money funneled into not-for-profit, charaitable, etc. organizations aligned with the distributors and the RIAA. They'll lose money out of the general fund, but it'll get pushed back into other organizations they control.
Wait and see...
Do you have any refrences to back up your claim?
autopr0n is like, down and stuff.
I'm going to put in a claim, then use that $20 to support the EFF (or maybe a different consumer-rights organization). Let's use the record companies' money against them!
The Mongrel Dogs Who Teach
We didn't have 'data' tapes for my C64 dataset, dammit.
If Jesus wants me it knows where to find me.
The site is completely legitimate. This is part of an actual legal settlement. Why the hell would the RIAA set up a website to steal your name and address?
Ignorant and paranoid are a dangerous combination.
Now, as to whether all that bullshit is worth between $5 and $20: I couldn't even buy dinner with that much money. That is why I won't bother. If it were a couple hundred, I'd consider it...
- A.P.
"Remember when the U.S. had a drug problem, and then we declared a War On Drugs, and now you can't buy drugs anymore?"
You know ... it would be just my luck to get part of the "Non-Cash Consideration" in the form of Britteny Spears CD Collection ...
Karma? Karma? I don't need no stinkin' karma.
I submitted this story two days ago, and it was rejected. At first, I thought it was rejected because they (the slashdot higher-ups) didn't want to dilute the payout pool so they could get more money sent out each payee (i.e. themselves). Imagine if musiccdsettlement.com got slashdotted? The payout could foreseeably fall below $5 per person, in which case none of us will see any money, only the lawyers.
Linux at home
"That's why I shred all my receipts. And eat the paper."
I like to be doubly-extra safe. I shred all my receipts. Then I eat the paper. And then shred the poop that results.
But that's where I draw the line.
Corporation, n. An ingenious device for obtaining individual profit without individual responsibility. - Ambrose Bierce
I was, by chance, listening to BBC World Service the other night and heard an advert for a series of programmes they're running on the Music Industry. It mentioned something about the nasty contracts they make up for artists.
/ ScheduleSDT.cgi
The programmes start on the 18th of January, dunno what time, I think it depends on your locale. Here's the schedule page:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/cgi-bin/worldservice/psims
Corporation, n. An ingenious device for obtaining individual profit without individual responsibility. - Ambrose Bierce
Make sure *nobody* signs up for this. At all. We all know how hard this will be, since everyone and their mother, and their mother's cousin loves "free money". But really, we're just saying, "Hey, it's ok to rip us off some more."
If no one agrees to the settlement, then perhaps the courts, when they try to see if the settlement is fair, will realize that it is not, and that the price fixing must be stopped.
And then I sign up for the refund, and being the only person signed up, I walk away with a cool $25 mil. Muaahahahhahahahahahahhahahaha. *cough* Ignore that last part.
Jake
Dating: while( 1 ){ call_girl(); get_rejected(); drink_40(); } return 0;
The first question on their Questions and Answers page is hilarious:
;)
1. Am I being sued?
No, you are not being sued. Certain companies are being sued.
Are there really people out there who ended up at this site and somehow got the impression that *they* were being sued? The lack of common sense some people suffer from never ceases to amaze me...
DennyK
'The compact discs will be distributed in each State,Territory, and Possession to not-for-profit, charitable, governmental or public entities to be used for music-related purposes '
Who will then pay royalties for the said music-related event?
At the bottom of my sig, you'll see the mag I donate my webmastering skills too. We're a local zine for the silicon valley music scene.
.5 owner of the zine. When we went to the different bay area wherehouse music stores today, we found out some alarming news.
Before ppl ask "SV has a music scene?" remember, bands like green day come out of here. Our music scene is totally different than that of L.A.'s a.k.a. Hollywood. I can't describe it, because I see everything as data, but I can tell you what the musicians are fearing.
So today, i'm riding around delivering the latest issue of Zero with one of our big bosses. Boss delivering zines you ask? It's hard times, everyone is pulling double effort.
Anyways, this cat is a musician, and
All Wherehouse music stores around our area are shutting down... We have noticed a trend too, less people in other music stores.
So who's to blame? Napster? The economy? Pirates?
Well, my partner started asking questions about the technology. He's what I would call a reforming luddite (yeah strong words but he'd agree with me) "Isn't there some way they could make a CD so it's uncopyable?" he asked. I explained to him as long as there was some sort of digital, to a speaker coil coversion, the RIAA will never be able to stamp out piracy.
"Well who the fuck would want to download a shitty copy of a song then!" he chirped.
"The same fucks that would bring a camera into AOTC's, compress it to mpeg and share it over kazaa" I replied.
Stumped, he went back to his first question. After repeating that there had to be some way of doing it 3 times I answered..
"Yeah, if they could convince everyone to replace their ears with DRM enabled digital implants, then yeah the RIAA has a chance"
Well, he got the point after that. So he moved onto "How do you stamp out P2P?"
I put it into another analogy for him. Napster with it's central peer topology is much like a football team with 1 quarterback. You sack the quarterback.. You sack the network.
"So the RIAA can just sack kazaa right?"
"No, Kazaa would be the equivelent of every player on the team being both QB and reciever"
See, our zine stays alive by record lables having the money to buy adspace from us. If the record lables are losing money from P2P it affects us because they've yet to evolve to the net.
"What should they do?"
Personally, I think the record lables should ditch CD production altogether now. They should make songs freely downloadable. Fuck it, cut their losses.
But rather than look at it like a loss, the record industry should take a Las Vegas approach to it. Just use the music as a "comp" to milk money out of people in other ways.
For instance, that $50 dollar green day ticket, fuck it, if people won't buy the albums anymore, double it. I think people wouldn't care if they had to pay more for live performances. I'm biased because I do get in for free, and don't have any money to pay for tickets anyways. I'm 30 years old in feburary and am perfectly content to staying at home.
The market is really for 14-25 year olds. Those are the people with expendable cash. They live at home, don't have a mortgage, and can afford $100 bucks to see a live performance. With the rate of inflation over the last 10 years, $100 doesn't really seem like a lot to me to see a big headliner band if I had no financial obligations.
I'm the oldest of 6, my youngest siblings are more at home in the computer enviroment than I ever was at their age. The RIAA doesn't realize this yet, but their biggest age group has a huge understanding of internet distribution, and they will never be able to beat it. That's just an unfortunate fact about it.
So to recap the RIAA should...
Cut back CD production,
Raise the price of live performances
Focus on promotion more than CD distribution.
Well, it's 3:30, and after a night of bouncing 300lb pac islanders from my karaoke bar, I need some sleep. Slash you in the morning and I hope your friday was as fun as mine.
--Toq
If your in the area where the court hosue is, you can go to the court and claim the $20 is way too low and you should be getting closer to $10 per CD. with typical fines for this sort of thing, the fines should be closer to the entire price of the CD but no point aruging that.
So you can send in your form and get your $20 back unless someone starts a chain mail thing of "click here and get $20" in which case the amount might be lower. If the amount goes below $5 then no one gets anything and the money goes to the RIAA's home for boy band want to bes or some other charity they like.
If someone is going to the court house to object in person, let me know because I'm willing to risk the loosing my $20 if there is the slightest chance the court will increase the award. Fair is fair and if the company did illegal things that will cause them to ceas to exist, then thats the way it should be.
Copyright law gives a producer exclusive right to sell a cd. So if I own the copyright, I set the price. No one else can compete. RIAA members cannot price fix because the don't sell the same products. Only 1 member sells britney spears, another sells metallica, etc.
Vote for Pedro
If I'm selling a Britney Spears cd, no one else can sell one at any price. Copyright legislation gives me this right. Therefore, how can there be price fixing when no 2 RIAA members even sell the same products. Therefore, the case is ridiculous.
Vote for Pedro
No, free market means free to do whatever you want, including price fixing. This isn't a problem since another competitor will enter a market and undercut the cartel's prices if there is price fixing. Price fixing is not even happening in this case since the RIAA members don't even sell the same products. Each has it's own monopoly on a particular artist guaranteed by law.
Vote for Pedro
Good. You shouldn't be able to get rich. Why try to rip off millions of people of their hard-earned cash, just because you feel greedy? If you're thinking about getting rich, try living in the US and see how it feels to to be poor, while the CEO is making $2 million a year.
And I find this funny to find this in a thread about the RIAA ripping off millions of people in price-fixing.
Zodiac Survey
I must apologize. I'm running out of time for research for this but I don't want to leave you hanging.
In terms of the bubble just bursting this year (your retort was that the tech bubble burst in 2000) I read an article in the ABA student Lawyer magazine in 2002 about the Law bubble bursting. I'll find the source.
Lawyers fresh out of school can specialize in three ways:
1) previous legal assitant/clerkship experience
2) specialized classes in law school (not all the curriculum is mandatory)
3) Summer Associate positions with lawfirms during law school.
My wife has specialized via all three. As such, when she graduates in May she will go on to do Investment company management work.
the source for highly paid corporate lawyer's 80+ hours per week is from my initial Cornell link and a function of their need to acheive 2000 billable hours. Since the time you spend in meetings not with a client, having a coffee break, going to conferences, doing research projects for partners don't count as billable hours, it is much more likely that a lawyer will put in 3000+ the figure the cornell link gave was 12 hours a day 6-7 days a week.
I would like to further support that with the fact that the burnout rate amongst lawyers is statistically higher- their rates for drugs, alcohol abuse, gambling, divorce, etc. are appreciably above "normal" trends. My wife got this statistic when she started law school; I don't know if it was in their student handbook or some additional supplemental material, but I'll find it.
So this is the direction I'm going in, I just need some time to collect my sources!
P.S.- in my understanding of colloquial american english, college and uni are more geared towards undergrad. Anything beyond would be graduate school.
In the future, I would want to not be isolated from my friends in the Space Station.