Slashdot Mirror
RFID: The New Big Brother ?
Makarand writes "The possibility that we could be tracked not because we have a microchip implant but
merely because we wear clothes, eat and carry objects around is real
according to this article on C|net news.
A technology called RFID (radio frequency identification) consisting of miniscule microchips
the size of a single grain of sand that listen to a radio query and respond by
transmitting their unique ID can make this possible.
Most RFID tags use the power from the initial radio signal to transmit their response and hence can be placed anywhere imaginable.
Retailers are adoring this concept and soon
everything more expensive than a Snickers bar will sport RFID tags
making tracking possible through our own personal possessions.
The privacy threat comes when RFID tags remain active once you leave a store and currently the RFID
industry seems to be giving 'mixed' signals about whether the tags will be disabled
or left enabled by default."
Microwave clothes before wearing.
--Fesh
Kill -9 'em all, let root@localhost sort 'em out.
I think it's going to be my personal challenge to find a way to "short out said devices" I'm thinking a microwave oven should do the trick. THe hard part, defeating an ingested tag, hmm... this could be a real problem, tracked until your bowels process the dammed thing out...
3000 dead over past 2 years, still no free Palestinians, still
That's nutty. Soon anyone who cares about privacy is going to have to EMP themselves before they can go anywhere...
Hi... I'm Larry... the shivering chipmunk... brrrrr!... I'm cold... I need a sweater...
Put your tracking enabled underwear in the microwave for 30 seconds and not only will they be toasty warm but you will be able to wear them anonymously. The problem comes when certain establishments mandate that you wear trackable underwear!
Lasers Controlled Games!
I believe that the majority of recently born puppies have a tiny microchip embedded in the back of their necks for similar purposes. I was shocked when I first heard of this practice (about a year ago), but I hear its quite accepted among dog owners. I can see the benefit for pets... ...but for humans? Scary.
"My mother never saw the irony in calling me a son-of-a-bitch." - Jack Nicholson
Now I've got a reason for advocating nudity....
If you find a Snickers wrapper on the ground you could read its RFID and track it back to the person who bought it and fine him for littering.
Such is the infinite Grace of Popeye.
This is actually just what I've been wishing for. You know when you've misplaced something in your house (my favorite pencil, for a recent example from my own life, though "house" is maybe being charitable), and you spend hours tearing everything apart and then it turns out that it's just lying there somewhere in plain sight?
I always wish, both during and after such a quest, that I could have just whipped out a tricorder (or device of a similar form factor) and scanned for whatever I'm missing, and it would start beeping or blinking on the screen or whatever. It would save hours of time for all but the most type A people.
It would also be a boon on the golf course. And for finding your kids when they wander off at Disneyland. Really, all I can think about is good applications of this technology, so bring it on!
Karma: Good (despite my invention of the Karma: sig)
The submitter is acting like this is the first time He's heard of RFID. The idea has been around for years and they're only now getting to the point where they're going into.
RFID tags need to be printed on paper, so unless you have something like a magazine you'll be able to get rid of the RFID tags just by removing the wrapper or sales tag. Duh. It's not like these things are going to be attached to everything permanently just while they're in the store. It's basically a replacement for the barcode.
autopr0n is like, down and stuff.
Topless Bars and Horsetracks will likely be the first places to devise RFID shields, offering safe havens for their customers!
Anything you say will be held against you.
Coat yourself with hundreds of thousands of the little tags. A chaotic radio shout in reply to a sensing whisper should make the devices less than usefull. Bury these buggers in information.
Karma: Excellent^(-t/Tau), Tau=Wittiness/Trollishness
Welcome back to The Gap...
...wearing my tinfoil suit, but who's laughing now?!?
Just as long as they put the following warning label on the Clothes:
WARNING!!! Hand Washing of this Material Could Cause Electrocution Resulting in Death.
Or Even worse make your hair stand up all Funny and stuff!
currently the RFID industry seems to be giving 'mixed' signals about whether the tags will be disabled or left enabled by default.
Of course they are. Why alienate either end of the market, especially retailers or other commercial interests? You know that right now it's more important to court them anyway to build interest and revenue for development. Leave all possibilities possibilities, and all kinds of parties will step forward.
- DDT
So long, michael. Don't let the door hit you...
I'm not much of a "holy roller" (or at all for that matter), but this one made me think:
"He also forced everyone, small and great, rich and poor, freeman and slave, to receive a mark on his right hand or on his forehead, so that no-one could buy or sell unless he had the mark, which is the name of the beast or the number of his name. This calls for wisdom, if anyone has insight, let him calculate the number of the beast, for it is the number of a person and it's number is 666." Rev 13:16-18
RFID Tires
Imagine the possibilities... There's a video on that site for anyone willing to dig. I'd rather not slashdot it (28 megs). This technology was initially used to ship and track tires as a replacement to the old bar codes, but now, the boys in the tinfoil hats are detecting RFID activity on the freeways and border crossings...
Auto manufacturers are programming the VIN number into the tire at assembly. It is only a matter of time before this becomes a requirement.
Life is the leading cause of death in America.
Now we'll have real, techno-savvy fashion police. Geeks beware!
Trolls lurk everywhere. Mod them down.
Cost: $.50 per tag.
Range: 15 feet "optimally oriented in front of a reader in free space."
While the chips themselves are small (grain of pepper is mentioned), the antennas are 1/2" to 4" long.
Sure, this is interesting news (from a technology perspective), but I for one don't fear their use by big brother just yet.
.... a repeat?
4 4&mode=thread&tid=126
See http://slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=02/11/17/03272
Cruising the internet on my TI-99/4A @ a whopping 300 baud!
I hope My New Tracking Enabled T-shirt Has a Wear Anonymously Checkbox!
I can picture the conversation with my wife now:
"Hon, do you like this dress?"
"Yeah, it's really nice... WAIT DID YOU MICROWAVE IT BEFORE WE LEFT HOME!?!"
"Micro - huh? What the hell are to talking about?"
"RFID SAND CHIPS! THEY'RE EVERYWHERE! They've probably tracked us here. Better take off your clothes until we can get to some underground consignment shops and hook you up with some aluminized disco stuff from the '70s."
"We're through."
Everyone knows that you can just wrap yourself in aluminum foil! Duh! It works against the aliens.
I work in the packaging industry and have seen firsthand some of the RFID application processes on folder gluers. First of all, the defect rate hovers around 10%, which makes relying on this technology a dubious proposition.
I doubt that the practical size is approaching "half a grain of sand," which would make application a nightmare to try to control. And most importantly, RFID tags are like UPC barcodes: they're coded to a single frequency and product, not to each instance of the product! If an RFID tag is enabled on your North Face jacket and you walk in a store, they may be able to tell that you're wearing the jacket, but that doesn't tell them who you are.
So if I've helped reduce the paranoia level a little bit, I'll now return you to your regularly scheduled programming.
Have fun: Join D.N.A. (National Dyslexics Association)
Lead-lined backpacks and clothing.
Just think of how many you could sell....
Your target market could be:
the list just goes on and on
Life is too short to proofread.
I'd like a nice RFID-enabled ring.
Anyone see Sunday's "Alias"?
Evil Mr.Whats-his-name (head of SD6) had a wedding ring fashioned to scramble bugs that would transmit ambient noise, tv signals, etc. to throw off anyone who was bugging him.
Gimme one of those, but with a boatload of different RFID transmitters built into it just to mess with anyone trying to track anything using RFID technology.
Sell 'em on the internet for $10 a pop. Effectively render the technology useless for tracking people.
Just a thought..
Cruising the internet on my TI-99/4A @ a whopping 300 baud!
Back a few years ago when I was involved in some biometric technologies, I had heard of this technology already in use in of all places, on livestock farms to keep track of animals that would wonder away from the herd. It was referred to at that time as "fairy dust"
While it might be a good way to keep our children from being abducted, I'm also not to keen on being seen as livestock.
--- have you healed your church website?
Now pardon me if I don't have the sort of camel-looking face that the guy who wrote the article does but doesn't this defeat the stated purpose of the tags? Retailers are saying that these tags will cut down on theft from stores because all packages can be easily tracked. If the tags are easily removed and on the packaging, what's to stop me from just taking the product I want for free out of the package and walking out of the store? I don't think this guy thought out his four little demands too well. Probably he just likes the number four, I know I do.
1. Create portable RFID-Destroyer, that kills all RFID transmitters embedded in a product.
2. Market product created on step (1) to paranoid geeks (such as me)
3. ???
4. Profit!
Easy, don't you think? A little bit like the some Neal Stephenson novel on nanotechnology.
The right to offend is far more important than the right not to be offended. (Rowan Atkinson)
I once got hold of 5-10 stickers that would trigger most shops alarm systems (the check points at the entry and exit points). It was a real laugh to put these stickers on peoples belongings and watch them set of alarms at the local mal...
Seriously, I think that it would become a problem to have these devices enabled after having been used. This requires the security system to verify that the mark is 'one of ours' before sounding the alarm. Kill the marker after the payment has been done and everything is plain sailing.
of where all the missing socks go.
Hot Damn! It's the Soggy Bottom Boys!
The problem comes when certain establishments mandate that you wear trackable underwear!
No... the real problem comes when certain establishments mandate that you wear underwear..
"so is that a RFID tag in your pants, or are you just happy..."
From the article:
"RFID tags are miniscule microchips, which already have shrunk to half the size of a grain of sand."
Um. Are you dating a chick from Fantastic Voyage or something?
Wow, so someone will know I'm wearing Timberland boots, Dockers pants, Oakley sunglasses, and an Izod shirt.
They won't know my name, address, phone number, age, social security number, sexual preference, number of pets, or marital status.
So what the hell's the big deal? Or are we all just being slash-paranoid?
- A.P.
"Remember when the U.S. had a drug problem, and then we declared a War On Drugs, and now you can't buy drugs anymore?"
Like I want an 'Enron' to happen with a company that controls distribution and/or access to these.
I suggest a hi-watt jammer to make the use of them impossible.
The knowledge of my whereabouts is copyrighted, and I have every right to disable, interfere, block, divert, or otherwise impair the unauthorized distribution, display, storage, or reproduction of this copyrighted information.
God, I hope they don't put these in tin foil. What will I make my hats out of?
Why don't you just build a jammer that works at that frequency? Wouldn't need to use much power...
autopr0n is like, down and stuff.
They do this with mobile phones,
In a built up area with lots of cells they can track where your going.
There's also a legend about being able to turn the microphone on, and eves droping without the user doing anything. (I know people who won't let you in if you have a mobile phone on you, paranoid people, not drug dealers or smugglers)
thank God the internet isn't a human right.
Clothing tracks YOU!
Oh, wait a minute...
Why bother.
This help me with an idea I have been kicking around. Suppose every Isralie citizen and tourist carried one of these with them at all times in the public. In public areas, computers with, basically, webcams use video to locate where people are, then radio recievers use these RFID tags to triangulate where people are. If the cammera sees a person where the radio does not, that is a person who is not authorized to be there. This person would then be photo'd and checked against known terrorists or questioned by the police, as he might be a suicide bomber.
I can't see how else Israel will stop suicide bombing unless they only allow their own citizens in public areas, and this method would not be too expensive. And as much as I care about privacy, the situation there is life or death, and so more important.
A slashdotter who didn't build his own computer is like a Jedi who didn't build his own lightsaber.
Material possesions do bring unhappiness! And an FBI/CIA/SS file. Nuke 'em for enlightenment!
Don't act surprised people, until there is NO freedom and NO privacy this sort of thing will not stop.
All in the name of 'safety' it is..
Once its gone its hard to get back, stop offering to give it to them willingly..
---- Booth was a patriot ----
I predict an increase in crime from all of these newly out-of-work actors with fake law-enforcement training.
Eh, the truly paranoid would have trouble purchasing on the internet..
True. I should've picked up on that.
Not being overly paranoid, I hadn't thought of that (not that you are for bringing it up, mind you...)
Yeah, I supposed kiosks in the mall would be better..
I honestly don't see what the big deal on this is. Isn't this technology along the same lines as what they're using to ensure books (ever see a sticker in a book that looks like a PCB?) and DVDs (open the DVD package - see that white plastic rectangle stuck to the inside of the case?) and are rendered inactive by the salesdrone when you purchase said item (usually by running it over something at the register and then over a sensor to make sure its deactivated)?
Besides, with a failure rate of 10% (as someone else said) and a total distance of 15 feet? BFD.
Cruising the internet on my TI-99/4A @ a whopping 300 baud!
Here's where the RFID in your sweater falls apart... Think about your family Christmas gathering, sweaters chaning hands all over the place, with nobody telling the central database what is happening.
If you're wearing an outfit bought for you by somebody else, then the computer will falsely identify you as that gift-giving friend or realitve. Too many false-positive IDs and this system gets considered useless.
Besides, we still use cash to buy things around here. I don't think we need to get paranoid until we see serious proposals to knock that off...
This would also tell me what tools I left in the attic, the basement, etc... Where did I leave the cordless drill?
The tags cost >$.50 each, but how much do the readers cost? Where can I buy them?
The biggest problem that I see is the simple fact that the first and most logical use of the RFID tag is in shoplifting prevention. Granted that it would be a great way of tracking and ensuring that some klepto doesn't bugger off with as much merchandice as they can get thier gurbby hands on, but if they are debating whether or not the tags should be disabled after purchase there could be problems arising here.
...how many times have you bought a DVD had it 'cleared' of the security tag only to get beeped at the door? ...what if you buy something, thier computer crashes and they have to pull fro ma backup from the previous day? Won't the RFID tag be in the database again?
Say I buy a winter coat from Walmart in the fall. Then near the end of winter I go back to buy a windbreaker for spring's warmer weather. Am I going to have to keep a recipt in my pocket to prove that I bought the jacket?
Or I go and buy a PDA from Circuit City then come back a week later and buy a printer (using the PDA as my check register)...how do I prove that it is now mine and not lifted?
Sure some of you are going to say "the security tags get removed at checkout" or "The RFID signature will be removed from the database and will not exist anymore to bother you", but consider...
Good idea, but I'm too familiar about the quality and the ability of the people who try to implement it. Some of these people can't pour sand out of a boot with instructions on the heel.
Phoenix
-- Wiccan Army, 13th Airborne Division "We will not fly silently into the night"
Nothing's so bad that it can't be used for some good...
In Murphy We Turst
..that this is exactly the kind of technology currently being implementeed to make U.S. airports a 'safer place' - unique RFID tags are being attached to passenger bags at check-in so they can't get lost, be switched for other bags, get put on the wrong plane etc. At least that's the theory.
"You heard the man, Tubbs.. get undressed."
You don't need to nuke your clothes ....
.... j/k
:)
Just wear a faraday (sp???) cage!!!
Ya know, the wire mesh inside of your microwave that prevents the radiation from escaping!
This way, you have a bullet proof vest on while you're running from the store you just stole 3 shirts from
Besdies, nuking some clothes might be bad since they may shink when heated too much
HallmarkOrnaments.Com
Before anyone panics there are several things to consider:
1. Unless the receiver can determine the distance to the RFID tag (and this is usually not the case), the tag's location cannot be determined with any greater accuracy that the distance to the nearest receiver. To "locate" a tag, there must be many expensive receivers no how many cheap tags there are. Remember, we live in three dimensions.
2. The range of passively powered tags is only a few meters, and they all tend to reply at the same time when a bunch are pinged, causing interference.
These difficulties can be solved, but not soon.
...in a totally consumer driven economy. Eventually when you walk by the "smart ad's" (like the ones in Minority Report) all the advertising companies have to do is scan your clothing, shoes, belt, etc.
From this one can find out not only what you like to buy, but how long you have had what you are wearing and how much you paid for it, possibly even where you bought it.
Include this with a retinal scan and a database of past product scans of the individual (not to mention other purchase profiles sold to advertisers by your supermarket/travel agent/etc.) and you start to build a fantastic database on the buying habits of the individual in question.
The "smart ad" accesses the database, crossreferences you and your buying habits.
Couple of instants later and *POOF* a personally tailored, computer generated ad pops up and starts calling your name using those trick directional ultrasonic sound generators...subliminals and throbbing music lulling you into a state of complete fiscal abandon...Showing you the way to the nearest store that will painlessly seperate you from the next sizable chunk of your no-longer-disposable income.
Sounds like a corporate driven police state where every purchase you make is tracked and logged to provide clues to allow companies to exploit your weaknesses for fine fragrances, goat porn, or cheap little southeast-asian made plastic trinkets.
Think I'll start making my own hemp clothes right now...gonna need some practice.
When the only tool you have is a claw hammer every problem starts to look like the back of someone's skull.
... by Vernor Vinge. Go read it, especially the part where he talks about nanoscale "localizers". Second scariest part of the book, in my opinion, the scariest being "focus" - we'd better hope mechanical AI is feasible, because if it isn't, "focus" almost certainly is feasible, and would make RFID-based totalitarianism feel like a walk in the park.
To a Lisp hacker, XML is S-expressions in drag.
ato
my tinfoil suit is getting more and more usefull all of the time.
first this
then this
then some more
even more of the same stuff
oh some more stuff
and finally this article.
1. market for tinfoil suit, see above.
2. Mass produce tinfoil suit
3. Sell it on thinkgeek
4. profit!
Selling software wont make you money, selling a service will.
This thing is going to be hacked more than anything else before.
--Mike--
If the transmitter uses the radio signal itself as a power source, how strong can the reply be?
I think we'll need a BIG satellite for that one.
It's Christmas everyday with BitTorrent.
I'd rather have legislation mandating tag deactivation when they leave the store, but am I right about all this?
One application for these is that you enable RF on your fridge and hey presto, when you're running out of beer your fridge orders some more.
Dunstan
The last scintilla of doubt just rode out of town
Business 2.0 had a feature on RFID tags just under a year ago. The feature talks about how companies are planning on using the tags primarily as a means of better inventory tracking internally, and how other devices like laundry machines will be able to make use of the tags in order to determine, for instance, what types of fabric are being inserted. Most of the tags planned for use in commodity items are "passive tags" which don't broadcast their identity.
A sidebar talks about how Walmart plans on being an early adopter.
Privacy concerns? Pish. Do you REALLY think that people out there care enough about whether or not your clothes are a dacron/polyester blend to go around scanning you? I'm totally for the idea of allowing products to answer a "What are you?" question from devices like store checkouts, laundry machines, etc. Saves me the time from "asking" and "answering" the question myself.
to quote from cryptogram: "If you have ever wondered how the special anti-shoplifting tags you see on merchandise work, this article is a real eye-opener!"
ato
This is very similar to how the existing anti-theft system found at most retailers works (you know, those little flat rectangular stickers on higher-value merchandise).
The sensors at the store's exits transmit a weak radio signal. The devices attached to the product contain a very simple circuit designed to receive on that frequency. It converts the energy from that frequency radio wave to electricity used to broadcast a new signal at another frequency. When the sensors detect a transmission at that output frequency they sound the alarm.
The devices at the cash registers that disable the security system do so simply by transmitting at the same frequency as the sensors by the exits, except at a much greater power. This overloads the circuit in the security tag, and basically burns it up so it no longer functions.
All this article refers to is the same system, except that it sends additional information such as an ID. I would imagine that it would be prone to the same input overload, so that if you transmitted a very strong signal at the input frequency it would damage the device so it would no longer function.
Also, we are talking about extremely weak output from this device. It would be extremely easy to jam this signal with a simple transmitter.
Finally, the logistics of such a system would greatly limit its use. Imagine broadcasting a signal to power the devices, and getting back a response from the several thousand items closest to you in Wal Mart. It would be raw static. The only usefulness of such a system at non-trivial ranges would be to track a handful of objects.
Dan East
Better known as 318230.
Imagine that your state requires you to carry a drivers license that has an RFID chip in it that returns your SSN when it is scanned by the police from a nearby police car.
I don't think that that technology is too far fetched.
While drivers licenses might be a bit tough for people to swallow, imagine requiring them in all US passports? Then customs/immigration would be able to track anyone while they were inside of the designated security zones inside of airports. Great for tracking terrorists!
Anyone want to patent this to keep it from ever being used?
42 - So long and thanks for all the fish.
Ok, if they're going to be tracking me, I want to be able to track them.
It's their decision, either share their location information with me, or don't try to track me.
Sticks and Stones may break my bones, but copyright will always protect me.
Would a localized magnetic pulse disable them, for instance? I'm not so bothered by the tags themselves because there will almost certainly be a way to easily disable them once you have your goods at home... unless of course they apply the DMCA circumvention provisions to that too.
So does this make Neal Stephenson a prophet? So far so good.
The top of the line models include a state-of-the-art spectrum analyzer that's useful to track down the femtochip before zapping it, so only the affected area can be "treated" and that the zapping can positively be ascertainted, not to mention the power savings afforded by the unit.
* Yes, there really is a Kalamazoo (any /.er from there can attest that the sign at the station is still up?).
It sounds like the RFID technology is similar a
famous Russian listening device.
This device was totally passive, but when hit with a specific RF frequency (via a very directional beam) it would reflect the beam back but modulated by the sound in the room. The Russians could demodulate the signal and get the audio back. They hid the device in a carved wooden Seal of the United States that they presented to the US Embassador to Russia who proudly hung it above his desk. The Russian were privy to all conversations that took place in his office.
After a while the American figured his room was bugged so they sent in technicians to find the bug. The Russians weren't stupid - they knew when technicians arrived and simply turned off the directional RF carrier beam. They would turn it back on when the technicians left. Finally the Americans got smarter and all left but one who hid in the office with RF listening gear. When the Russians turned the RF carrier on, he detected it and figured it out it was embedded in the Seal. It was quite a scandal.
since cars already have license plates that identify them from a distance. I can't see why anyone would want to read RFID's out of tires on the freeways when they can just read the license plates of the cars instead.
Back around the time of the Oklahoma bombing, there was talk of requiring taggants in all explosive, and that some had them, already. Of course Oklahoma would have required taggants in fertilizer, as well. I don't know if they were seriously proposing that.
But with the amount of fireworks and roadwork going on, wind dispersal and all, it seemed to me at the time that we'd rapidly get to the point where *every* environmental sample would include some background level of taggants. At that point, tracing explosives would become a statistical process, and certainty would be long gone.
IMHO, the problem with RFID in everything would be the sheer data volume. Assume each and every RFID had a unique number, and then imagine the size of the database to track all of that, not to mention the monitoring infrastructure. Then remember that they can't even track election results.
The living have better things to do than to continue hating the dead.
Working for a rather large corporation that is working heavily with RFID technology, I can atest that this article is entirely FUD (and misinformed FUD at that).
RFID tags are not the size of "grains of sand" but rather the size of an oversized stamp. They are based on passive RF technology. When probed, they absorb a little of the energy and use it to respond. Outside an RFID scanners range, they are just circuits and have no function.
The price point the article quotes is also very wrong. Costs are much lower but still 2x - 3x what they need to be.
So what is this technology being developed for? To replace UPC labels! Instead of having to scan a bar code, you bombared an RFID with energy. An RFID is just as useless as a bar code in the absence of a scanner. The only difference it's a lot harder to mess up scanning an RFID than a bar code (not to mention that bar codes can degrade much easier than RFIDs).
This article was absolutely FUD. Just someone trying to cause a ruckus over nothing.
First of all the $.50/tag price will drop to zero just like for any electronic product. Second, a 1/2" to 4" antenna that can read the tag from 15 feet away is concealable and potentially extremely invasive. Do you really want receivers on every streetcorner, retail store, etc. to be able to take a complete inventory of everything you're wearing or carrying as you walk by?
For this statement of the obvious, there is no charge.
Or maybe it was 64 bits. Either way it's more than enough to assign a unique number to every individual jacket, wristwatch, or candy bar that leaves a production line.
Don't wear clothes. When you're in court for indecent exposure, tell them that RFID tags have made current clothing violate your right to privacy/anonymity...
That, or you could advertise a protect using your body...
I think this is a great idea... but it would need some further development to make the product stronger... hear me out.
Imagine if we could shrink down GPS to this level, or at the very least, to the size of the pet microchip. Would you be opposed to having the chip implanted into your childs clothes and personal items in order to find them in case of an abduction??? or to keep tabs on them in general?
I wouldnt.
The Code Ninja is swift with his tool, precise in his delivery, and deadly accurate in his execution.
Interesting someone should mention RFID, as I've recently an article which mentions it's use on a site we've already seen today.
Seems Prada (because every woman needs a $600 plain black purse) is trying all sorts of new tech in their newest New York store (and failing from the sound of it). The relevent bit comes from their experience with using RFID's in all the items' sales tags (to link up to the DB, to inform consumers of other products, to PROFIT etc) Unfortunately, the computers, monitors, power cables and data cables in the store interfere with the RFID tags so badly that all sorts of location-specific tuning of the receivers needed to be done to get them to work - and they only worked passably when every cable was well shielded.
The upshot I suppose is that RFID simply can't be ubiquotous enough to be worrying for a few years anyway.
credo quia absurdum
One of the requirements of the RFID technology is that you logically need a receiver within X distance of it, to determine within an area at least 2piX^2 where you are.
If we are worried "they" will know where we are, "they" will need a sensor wherever we are. A very unrealistic concept.
More likely will be sensors on toll booths on interstates, and things of that sort. Whereas using license plates from those cameras that are everywhere would still suffice to do that type of tracking.
Besides, I think candy wrappers are the least of the problems the enviornment has. First I think we should find ways to reduce toxic waste dumping, etc.
Sticking feathers up your butt does not make you a chicken - Tyler Durden
When RFID tags are used to prevent theft, what's stopping a thief from bringing a jammer, or a device that nukes the RFID tags, to the store? RFID tags are more easily defeated than the current (larger) RF tags.
While the privacy issue is a big factor, I have to say this could make tracking of stolen good much easier especially after the time of purchase if done properly.
Imagine your house getting burglerized and all the objects are tagged as yours. They couldn't be sold anywhere legitamently or even carried anywhere that detects the tags and runs their ID's through a stolen goods database.
Still this will get highly abused since people arn't responsible and/or ethical enough to not abuse that type of system.
Another thought that occured to me is that content industries could enforce stricter viewing practices on their materials with these tags. It would be possible to even detect who's watching what and where and if they don't like the outcome of that formula they could ban or remove the content depending on the medium. This would really kill fair use.
~~ Behold the flying cow with a rail gun! ~~
All technology (hell, even nuclear technology) can be used for good and bad purposes. I can imagine many uses for RF tags that I would actually appreciate. For example, as I walk to my car, it automatically unlocks and starts the engine. Or, the front door of my home automatically unlocks for me as I grasp the doorknob. When I enter a room, the lights automatically adjust to my preferred lighting level. Provided the tag is embedded within my body, there's not much risk of it being stolen.
But as everyone here points out, there are many possible nefarious uses for such a device. And indeed, there are nefarious uses for any technology. I could use wall current to electrocute you, blind you with a laser, or carve an "anarchy" symbol into your forehead with the sharp edge of a broken silicon wafer (ok, that's a little facetious, but you get the point).
My question for everyone is, how much are we willing to limit our technological advancements because of possible risks?
Let me give another example that might sound silly. Scientists are, right now, dreaming up technology to move asteroids around. One day we might use this to bring them closer, and mine them for materials. We could also use it to push an incoming asteroid out of a collision course with Earth.
A sufficiently funded terrorist, however, could also use this technology to take the world hostage. Or, if he's having a bad day, he could endanger the survival of the human race by actually doing it, and flinging a huge rock toward Earth. Should we stop developing this asteroid-moving technology because of this risk?
When does scientific and technological advancement become irresponsible?
RFID technology has been around for years. Have you purchased a CD or DVD in the last few years? Remember the check-out guy "beeping" it before you left? That's an RFID tag at work. In this instance, it's just a proximity tag that will alert the store if you (ahem) neglect to purchase the product. (The official term for this is "inventory shrinkage.")
Checkpoint Systems makes RF Electronic Article Surveilance (RF-EAS) tags (the US site is not responding, but the Japanese one is, showing the bulk tags.) And here's a company that sells machines to auto-insert the RF-EAS tag into DVD carriers.
An amazing amount of effort has gone into reducing the cost of the RFID anti-theft tags. They're typically screen printed, and usually are destroyed when you purchase the product. It's not cost effective to make it re-programmable, as the retailers are playing a statistical game - they're weighing the probability of someone stealing a returned (or defective) unit against the reprogrammable cost that burdens EVERY unit going out the door.
One step up from this application is the ubiquitous personnel badge that most of us drones are required to wear at the orifice. Here's one from TI (PDF datasheet.) This costs a little more, and is definitley capable of identifying who you are.
Just curios, but wouldn't EMPing your clothes constitute a breach of the DMCA somehow?
"Sir, you are not emitting a signal, are you aware that this is in violation of the DMCA? You will have to come with us Sir."
[Still not sure wehter I'm joking or not}
"GNU's not Unix....it's Linux" / Kami "kokamomi" Petersen
I hope the RFID tags can survive the ESD (Electrostatic Discharge) nightmare that is my clunky old dryer. It would be kind of humor to see this come to fruition, only to be wiped out en masse by clothes dryers.
Maybe I should call Maytag and see if they have some type of gauss gun add-on.
That raises the disquieting possibility of being tracked though our personal possessions. Imagine: The Gap links your sweater's RFID tag with the credit card you used to buy it and recognizes you by name when you return.
You mean like, using one of these?
But if that's the case, you can't use the system to track the RFID chips after the sale is complete. You don't want the scanners telling you about the pants the customer bought last week, just the stuff he's buying now.
===== Murphy's Law is recursive. =====
The perfect excuse to get a Van De Graaf generator.
I remember in high school science, we played with one of these. We were told that removing all watches, etc. beforehand would be a good idea.
One person forgot... The watch didn't survive playtime.
One of the things I remember was forming a ring of people, with the VDG being one "person" in the ring. Interrupting the ring (or something like that) in the right way would send a jolt through EVERYONE. I'm pretty sure this little pulse was the watch killer.
retrorocket.o not found, launch anyway?
At least I'll finally know who moved my cheese...
Looking for my keys that I am holding in my left hand... (Habitually, they're always in my right hand during the trip from pocket to door/ignition and back)
retrorocket.o not found, launch anyway?
He's talking about using such a device as a form of DoS attack.
It won't protect YOU specifically, but it'll make life a living hell for whoever runs the sensor you're jamming.
retrorocket.o not found, launch anyway?
With a huge database and some smart programming:
You walk into a store wearing a set of cloths, even if you have not purchased any of them in the store they could target advertise you based on the value, brands, style. That could be useful. They could tell me about the best deal on the cheap no-brand stuff I need to buy today rather than the over-priced stuff I'll never touch anyways.
OTOH, I'd rather the store NOT know what I'm carrying in my bag - I don't need some ad telling me about a new 'better than Viagra' drug because I just happen to have my, ahem, friend's stuff along with me.
I don't have much hope of avoiding the second situation, since marketing goof balls are not known for their sensitivity.
W9x:Thanks for the make-work project Bill.
- leather - MURDER! UN acceptable!
- cotton - economically subjugates poor workers in tropical third world countries! Strongly advised against!
- wool - subjugates poor little sheep in the name of man's clothing! STRONGLY advised against!
- fur - MURDER! UN acceptable!
So it's best to just go naked, like Gaia intended. Screw all you fuckers that live where it snows!It is time to develop the ECM RFID Jamming Wrist Watch.
-- Thou hast strayed far from the path of the Avatar.
Wow, so someone will know I'm wearing Timberland boots, Dockers pants, Oakley sunglasses, and an Izod shirt.
You mean velcro closure Reeboks, sweatpants, prescription glasses, a Slashdot shirt, and a Members Only jacket.
They won't know my name, address, phone number, age, social security number, sexual preference, number of pets, or marital status.
Who cares, your parent's house, your parent's phone number, 16-40, who cares, who knows, 3 cats, and single.
My beliefs do not require that you agree with them.
Here's an article and press release about the company doing it. Fortunately they have it patented, which should impede progress in this direction for a while.
How long before someone either sells or puts up a instructions on creating a personal "white noise" generator (for lack of a better term) that has an ultra limited range, but scrambles incoming RFID inquiries.
Even better, how about a device that responds before the RFID can to all requests with erroneous information?
What I'd like to know is if anyone has a source for hobbyists like myself to get RFID tags and scanners. I'm just itching to build a Smart Fridge and get it on Slashdot :)
My wife just recently had a baby and the hospital where she gave birth has a security system that involves the attachment of a clip to the newborns umbilical cord. This clip has a security chip that emits a radio signal. If the baby is removed from the nursery/obstetrical area, an alarm is sounded, doors are locked and elevators are stopped.
When we first heard about this security system, we thought that the chip was actually implemented in the babies bellybutton. This was due to some miscommunication. After getting the matter clarified, we gave the ok. It is something you can refuse to get, and we definately would have if it had been a permanent chip. But now I'm starting to hear about implanted tracking systems for older children. It is a scary world we are entering.
Forget the whales - save the babies.
They will
Auto ID Center
The flip side mobile Cloak
This Stanford seminar gave a good overview of the underlying technology.
Let's say a company wants to track the behavior of teens wearing Calvin Klein jeans. They put RFIDs in every pair of pants, then detectors in every store in every mall. The problem with this is, from Calvin Klein's point of view, it also opens themselves up to competitors gathering marketing info on CK customers. Nobody is going to spend millions of dollars to gather data to hopefully gain a competitive edge, only to have the competition have access to that same data.
_______
2B1ASK1
-"What did i do?"
-"You did'nt respond with an rf-tag, let's go!"
-"But i haven't done anything"
-"Yes you did, let's go you terrorist!"
FRA: STFU GTFO
RFID is present technology not new technology, it's already in products available today.
Gillette Confirms RFID Purchase
Update: Gillette has confirmed that it will purchase up to 500 million RFID tags from Alien Technology.
Jan. 7, 2003 - The Gillette Company confirmed yesterday that it has placed a major order for RFID tags from Alien Technology. Neither Gillette nor Alien indicated how much Gillette would pay for the tags, or the terms of delivery. Alien's Pounds Still, the announcement is a milestone of sorts because it is the first commercial order for products that incorporate the Electronic Product Code (EPC) developed by the Auto-ID Center. It is also the first multi-million dollar order Alien has received.
RFID Journal broke the news that Gillette planned to purchase 500 million RFID tags on Nov. 15 after Gillette VP Dick Cantwell told a private meeting of the Auto-ID Center's board about the company's plans (see Gillette to Buy 500 Million EPC Tags). Cantwell said then that Gillette would buy 500 million EPC tags from Alien.
However, Gillette's press release indicates that it may purchase may fewer than half a billion tags. It says: "Gillette will begin testing tag technology through its supply chain by placing RFID tags in select products for the US market. If successful, up to half a billion tags could be placed on Gillette products over the next few years."
Tom Pounds, Alien's VP of marketing and business development, told RFID Journal that there are terms and conditions that would allow Gillette to order less than 500 million tags. However, he added that Gillette has committed to purchasing "a significant chunk of that total."
Gillette plans to use the tags with smart shelf technology that was also developed for Gillette by the Auto-ID Center. The smart shelves, which have built-in RFID readers, will be tested in stores in the US and UK beginning this month, as part of the third phase of the center's field test.
mCloak
I know cos I used to use one to go shoplifting
There are places where the networks are not touching,and there are places where they are-Boeing's Lori Gunter
According to the article, the European central bank is considering putting RF tags in to money. This is quite a fascinating idea, but it got me thinking...
If all the money in your wallet/purse were to contain an RF tag, would it not then be possible to simply "scan" someone to determine how much money is on them in an effort to ascertain if they're a worthwhile mugging target?
The idea to RF-tag money is probably a good one in theory (much easier to reduce counterfeiting), but something like this would bother me if I were carrying around lots of cash.
A lot of clothing, such as all pants, contains metal parts in zippers and buttons etc. And you can't nuke metal, because... I'm not sure why, but everyone says so.
Interesting..now here's a question.
Remember those pants that someone (levi i think) were marketing as having shielded pockets so your cellphone dosen't fry your nads? I wonder what these shielded pockets would do to RFID or magnetic theft countermeasures, these pants could possibly fall afoul of this law.
oh brother, do you have any idea how much work would be involved in "old world" traditions?
Would you be willing to sacrifice 14 hours a day just to have food, clothes, and a warm place to sleep. Forsaking TV, computers, phones, everything else?
Maybe, but i think very few would.
Read that page more closely...it talks about creating a /standard/ for RFID tires, and talks about them in the hypothetical ("would"...etc.).
Oops, gotta go buy a copy of Catcher in the Rye now...
So could you put one of these on each bicycle, and have a few sensors at well used bike lanes, and trigger an alarm when a bike that's reported stolen passes by? Or go scan bike parkings? I am so sick of having one bike or more stolen per year!
The big reason you can't have a real LoJack type thing on a bicycle is that there is no way to power it. But these things don't need power.
I guess the big problem would be that thieves can scan for tags too, and remove or replace them. But I'm sure you could come up with some schemes to make that hard.
Of course, this would work theft prevention for many kinds of goods.
>Accenture has also teamed with Microsoft... I guess you get the picture.
No not really.
Good gads, just because MS makes some bad software and seems to bend the law doesn't mean MS is realted to this is any way. MS has teamed with virtually ever tech company at one time or another.
Stop your trolling.
Actually, I wouldn't want my grocer to disable the RFID tags on purchased food items. If I had my own RFID reader, it would make for a quite convenient way to update an inventory of what food I have on hand. This, in turn, would allow me to do many neat things:
- automatically generate shopping lists
- compare food inventory against a recipe database to see what meal options I have
- automatically track food expiration
- optimize food usage (ie. less waste) by planning meals a week in advance
Of course, this would also require tracking of inventory depletion. However, with recipe planning and perhaps a touchscreen interface, this would be pretty simple and would allow you to track your nutrition at the same time.
As a side-note, these things are nowhere near a threat to privacy:
1.) They are trivially easy to destroy
2.) Regardless of how small the chip is, you still need an antenna matching the wavelength of the RFID detector's transceiver. Simple physics guarantees that the antenna will be plainly visible or else highly inefficient and narrow-banded. (not much use if you're trying to power a chip with it). Sure, these limitations may be slowly overcome by advances in nanotech and ultra-low-power design, but it'll also make the chips more fragile.
The linked article mentions that the tags will have a "self destruct" mechanism, and even mentioned that consumers might have a device that could kill off the tags at home.
So what is to stop a shoplifter from getting a "tag killer" device and using it at the store. After that it becomes a normal shoplifting theft. At best this is only slightly better than the current magnetic tags, good for getting the stupid theives.
All this RFID stuff leaks is where I am, and by correlating that with other people's chips, they can find out who I'm with. All that tells 'em is mundane stuff like who I want to have sex with.
BTW, last time these things came up here, wasn't everyone all anxious for them to come out, so we could buy things by just dumping them in our shopping carts at the store and walking out, with everything automatically scanned and billed? They'll probably deactivate the chips when you leave the store, just because it would make them useless for price scanning if people were bringing working chips into the store.
Not quite, the most common tags today are the sensormatic acoustomagnetic type, found at a wide range of retailers from WalMart to Home Depot to many cd/movie stores. This type has a number of advantages, over the older RF based tags. In fact, many consumer items can be found with an Acoustomagnetic tag inside the item. Recently, I disassembled an answering machine I had purchased from KMart and inside the case was a (presumably deactivated) tag. Because 58khz acoustic echos are not much affected by the container, (after all these are just sound waves) tags can be embedded rather than on the surface of the item (as with radio frequency tags) where a shoplifter can easily peal them off. Don't expect the RF tags to actually be embedded in too many items, metallic items and objects containing water will either absorb the RF energy or detune the tag, itself a simple LC (inductor-capacitor) network tuned to 8.2 mhz (most common - or 9.5 mhz). The above posts are indeed correct, the common RF tags are deactivated by a high intensity RF signal, but usually of a different (usually lower)frequency that the tag also has resonance at. The fusable link is commonly a crimp across the capacitor which upon deactivation shorts the capacitor out, thus detuning it, rather than burning itself out.
The saturation type strips the parent refers to are actually prone to false alarms from certain metal objects with a low (and abrupt) saturation point. These systems are commonly found in libraries, rather than retail stores. Several other types are in use.
Read here and here.
These tags won't work in at least one way - most theft is by employees. They'll have plenty of opportunity to find and remove, disable or destroy tags. There are some tricks that a store owner could play (multiple tags, etc), but the employees will quickly figure out ways around them.
Even more fun is planting one on somebody without them knowing it!
Go for a buttoned rear pants pocket, or equivalent location they'll never think to check.
...find all my fscking left socks. Somebody, somewhere, is hording them and I am going to find him.
Slashdot, home of supporters of free software, free music, and free speech.Except for Moderators that disagree with you.
Don't forget the scratch card tickets. I live near a 7-11 and I'm always finding those goddamned things on the ground.
Sheesh, poeple, it's not bad enough that you're a loser (in so many ways), but must you litter too?
Alien Technology won't reveal how it charges for each tag, but industry estimates hover around 25 cents. The company does predict that in quantities of 1 billion, RFID tags will approach 10 cents each, and in lots of 10 billion, the industry's holy grail of 5 cents a tag.
Now, didnt gilette order something like half a billion of RFID's for only something ~7.5 each? That is pretty close to their holy grail of 5, which means that any consortium or any company with high production output could attain the RFID's for something like ~9-12. Which brings me to another question, why does the reporter quote higher prices?
Live for the present, learn from the past, and dream of the future!
There's really no need to worry about your privacy if you pay for your RFID'ed items in cash. That way nothing will be linked to you specifically. I suppose if the police or whoever is tracking you finds a way to link you with your possessions, you'll be in trouble, but then there's the whole concept of borrowing.
I wouldn't get your panties in a bunch, the Man isn't watching our every move.
Actual RFID for Tires Here's one example for the curious
Microsoft already did this.
Got time? Spend some of it coding or testing
Just in case you haven't seen the movie Ocean's Eleven or know what a pinch is by other means: basically, a pinch is an EMP (electro-magnetic pulse) emitter. It's an interesting concept but reality has proven the pinch to be rather difficult.
How hard would it be, given today's technology, to create a handheld RFID-pinch? Personally, I'd love to walk into a building and hit a button that fries every RFID within say, 500 meters.
--K.
Sig: Bad people happen. Try to avoid being one of them.
big difference between the work i do and the work that he's talking about it. It is nice for a little while and fun for a few hours here are there. But 14 hours of this type of work very few people could tolerate let alone enjoy nowadays(including myself)
Having a jamming device like this is going to advertise "I have something to hide" to anybody who looks at the logs.
No, what it's advertising is this: "What I'm hiding is something that's none of your damn business, and that's precisely why it's hidden."