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Dealing with Difficult Development?
"Why [is this not good news]?
The project timeline is insanely short given the complexity; there is nothing of substance developed yet - no schema, nothing; given the timeline, all schema development will have to be done on the fly - no time to sit down, take a holistic view of the project and develop the schema properly; and there is also no timeline for testing - other than the ad-hoc testing a developer does, there is no time for formal testing at all. All of this means that I'm basically going to develop this site on the fly which means that I'll eventually make mistakes, and won't have a proper testing cycle during which I could catch them -- the public will catch them, instead and complain.
I'm afraid that despite my heroic efforts to bring this site to fruition, this job will look sloppyand reflect badly on me. Have any of you been in a similar situation? How did you deal with it? Should I just turn the project down?"
I drink a cup of coffe and read the paper. Automagicly the job is complete when I get to it. Thus, my reward for hard work.
Everyone has been in this position!
What, never heard the saying:
Good, cheap, Quick: Pick 2.
State your concerns now. Clear the air and let them know your issues. Do this NOW!
If your scared they will drop you, well that is something you need to think about. Not saying anything is going to make look sloppy or a dolt.
So are you a dolt, or do you have the brass balls to let them know this is unrealistic. Either way make a choice and let them know. Let them make a decision or shut up and grab a paycheck with both hands.
Good luck.
Neck_of_the_Woods
#/usr/local/surf/glassy/overhead
Sounds like you need to take a look at the Golden Rules of Consulting. The relevant rules are: be the professional's professional, know when to "no bid" and know your customers. It sounds from the description that you need to provide some assistance with not only execution of the project, but give advice on what is a reasonable methodology and/or time frame for it. Advice to adjust goals is hard to give diplomatically, but often the most needed.
http://tinyurl.com/4ny52
Don't do it at all!
Having been in a similar situation recently, I would strongly suggest you turn the offer down. The risk of delivering a failed project, either over time, over budget or simply not working is far too great. Unless they plan to pay you an ungodly sum of money to offset the risk (the old risk/reward balance...), it is probably not worth the stress and frustration.
During the project I had the misfortune to be involved in (after it went down the drain), the project manager had a very firm committment to the delivery time and essentially decided to forego testing altogether. The day the site went live, it took all of five minutes for the whole thing to crash horribly. When I was called in to clean up the mess, I discovered an enormous amount of sloppiness, security holes and "shortcuts" which made it almost impossible to fix. The developers who delivered this site were clever guys and had successfully implemented similar projects, but the time and budget constraints made it impossible for them to deliver decent work.
From the question, I take it that your concerns are the same in this instance. The answer should be that if you don't think it can be done with a reasonable support framework of decent design and proper testing, it is not worth the exposure.
Working as a contractor, developing banking software, where more then 50% of the calculation and security build with JavaScript (!), I asked my manager, what the hell are you guys thinking? He said, as long as it looks good, client will buy it. Plain and simple.
Make them understand the site needs to be designed, written, and tested. If you leave out the design and testing part it will suck. Lots of books written by people smarter than me will back this up. If they say they can bring in somebody else who can write the code right without a design/test phase, they're lying to them.
Despite tough times, things still need to be grounded in reality. They need to get over it and do the right thing, or can the project. The customers aren't going to care about the site reflecting bad on YOU, it'll reflect bad on the COMPANY.
A wise contractor told me once:
Ours is not to question why, ours is but to bill them high.
1) Do you have any rapid development tools at your disposal? Depending on the technology involved, you could leverage certain tools like Visio or any of Rational Rose's products in order to quickly generate the database scripts and/or skeleton code; however, for this to actually be useful, you have to already be familiar with these tools in the first place (and thus not spend half your time looking for the right menu options or diagram shapes).
2) Could you perhaps break up the functionality into phases? Sometimes the best way to do it is to give them some initial functionality sooner, then deliver the rest as a "phase 2". This will give you the chance to deliver a more solid "phase 1" that both you and the client will be satisfied with.
3) If the client is not willing to work with you on the timeframe (or they are not willing to negociate a solution in the above idea), then definitely state to them that you cannot accept the project, and that furthermore you want to give them a little advice that whomever does accept the project will probably deliver a shoddy solution, given their rigid timeframe.
I deal with this quite a lot at my company; however, I've found that our business people and our outside clients are actually rather receptive to a phased release schedule, especially if you can deliver their important features earlier and then leave the less important features to a "phase 2."
- Ask
/.
- ???
- Profit!
but seriously, take the $$$ and run.dude.. if you don't have time, the only advise I can give you, is to stay away from /.
rigo
Keep a chronological log of every change you make to the database. If there's a serious bug that corrupts the data, you'll be able to rebuild the thing from your log.
Do that, and keep praying.
Deliver a poorly designed, untested system on time, or let them know it will be past due, they pick.
-- Insert wisdom here:
If you've hacked something together you may well get more money to spruce it up afterwards; a working site may be upgradeable to a better schema or whatever, although it will cost. It sounds like the company doesn't care so much what it costs, so that might work.
But if you can't see any plausible way to do it right now, you should walk.
-WolfWithoutAClause
"Gravity is only a theory, not a fact!"Depending on the specifications you will gain quite a bit by using systems that are already out there.
E.g. you can use the an open source content mgt system for the basic site and write a plug in for the specific needs. Try e.g. Postnuke
if you are aiming for a LAMP solution."and in an industry where almost any paid work is good work this is a welcome opportunity"
If you work for free, or undervalue your work in a consulting situation, you are putting other people out of work. I don't mean writting GPL code. I mean that just because you are unemployed and collected on it, does not mean you should help people with problems without billing them. If you do work and are not paid for it, you are merely volunteering.
--
Internet Explorer (n): Another bug -- that is, a feature that can't be turned off -- in Windows.
...or at the very least, know which are the right corners to cut. No matter how tight the deadline, you have to do some design work. Before you agree to take this job on, sit down with the client and explain to them the (very real) risks of not doing any design or testing. Make sure they are very clear on this. Then, if the client still insists on such a tight schedule, suggest a staged deployment.
What functionality is absolutely vital to the project? What can be delayed until a second release? Do not accept the client's initial response that all the functionality is of equal importance. No matter what the project is, there is surely some features that can be delayed slightly. This will open up some breathing room in the schedule.
Once again, make sure the client knows exactly how much of the project you will be delivering at each stage, and get them to sign a document outlining the deliverables for each stage. If you don't get the client to sign off, you could be screwed over down the track.
If the client is still insistent on tight deadlines and minimal or no testing and you are crazy enough to take this on, make sure you get them to sign a document stating that the decision to do minimal testing is theirs and that they are aware of the massive risks they are taking. Do not start this type of project without making it perfectly clear that it could go to hell in a handbasket if the system is released to production without adequate testing.
I was in the situation where we had to design, build and implement a system in a very short time frame. (Y2K project, started in Nov 1999!) The client was made aware of the risks, and my supervisor almost came to blows with him over the issue of testing. My supervisor was insisting on putting testing into the project plan. (Okay, his idea of testing was pretty scary - run the app and punch in some dummy data. No real methodology behind it, but at least it was something...) The client freaked when he saw that the project would take 3 months, thus pushing the release date to Feb 2000 - obviously no good. The client then made the decision to do no testing (apart from developer's bench testing) and he wrote a memo to that effect. as it turned out, there was one nasty bug that crept into the system, but the client was happy to wear the cost of fixing it and out butts were covered. He absolutely needed the app in place by midnight on Dec 31 1999, so he was willing to accept a potentially buggy product.
Take the time to document the requirements. Take the time to design the system. If the client wants to accept the risks of reduced testing, fine, but make them sign something to that effect (and then do even more unit testing as you are coding than you normally would) to CYA.
If in any doubt, don't take the job.
If you're short on time, why in the hell are you wasting it asking slashdot? By the time you get any answers from the masses, you'll have blown a day or two of good work.
If you can do it in the timeframe and feel confident that you can deal with the problems that will occur down the road due to the initial rush, then go for it. If you don't want to, then don't take the job.
Jesus, you're supposed to be someone that people hire when they have problems they cannot solve, yet you seem unable to grapple with a simple diliema such as this..
Do it right now or re-do it later.
This sig intentionally left blank.
(1) Dont waste time posting problems on Slashdot and waiting for replys.
(2) Your reputation is more important, and this is especially true during times of recession.
(3) Do your best, keep awake more hours on it. Drink more Coffee.
(4) Profit!
"Give orange me give eat orange me eat orange give me eat orange give me you." -Nim Chimpsky
People vastly underestimate how much leadership is necessary to make something good happen. It regularly happens that customers do something self-destructive or ignorant. The main job of a consultant is not to write good code, it is to provide excellent guidance.
A common answer to this observation is, "I'm a programmer. I just want to program. They should do the management." This makes sense, but doesn't seem to be the way the world works. The reality is that there is a severe shortage of management, especially technical management. You will be expected to provide some. It is like a party held during a famine; everyone is expected to bring food.
Leaders are people who try to resolve conflict. It is the job of a consultant in the situation you mention to understand the customer, including the customer's psychology, and provide whatever is necessary to do a good job. If you know better than the people around you, you are the leader, even if you are not the acknowledged leader. If the customer is self-destructive, that means that you are the leader. Otherwise you are just accepting craziness and filling your life with it.
Often an impossible deadline is just an expression of hidden fears that programmers cannot be trusted. Often an impossible deadline is a symptom of ignorance about how to manage a technical project. Sometimes people think that by encouraging other people to work 12 hours per day they will get more useful work for their money; that is not actually true because of mistakes and fatigue.
Underestimating the need for leadership is a symptom of a larger misunderstanding about life. People regularly underestimate the minimum complexity of life. In actuality, people are usually doing crazy things; craziness is happening all around you. If you look closely, it is very likely you will see that the example you gave is just one of many crazy things happening at the company that is suggesting the impossible deadline.
Cynical trick that project managers do to make all their projects technically "on time". Sit down with them and get a full set of specifications agreed on. Signatures are good. Tell them that whenever they change anything (and they will) the deadline will have to be renegotiated. Overestimate the amount of time any given change will add. After three or four major (or even minor changes) you'll have the time you need any they'll stop coming to you with new ideas.
In other words, for your situation, take the job and then just do the design work that you feel is necessary. Hopefully the design work will save you enough time that you can perform the implementation faster.
If you go over your estimates, you can beg forgiveness (and still get your paycheck).
Adding a proper testing phase is more problematic, since it requires cooperation with the client.
If there's literally zero time for anything but unit testing -- if the customer is saying, "you must deliver perfect code in this agressive timeframe" -- then the project is doomed. (Can you put it to them that way?) Find some way to accept the job without being seen as responsible for its inevitable failure.
You can't do "big design up front." I'm sure there's no way you'll get detailed immutable requirements. You're going to need lots of unit tests and lots of automated tests. (If you're description of the other trends is accurate, it's a given the customer will change their minds during this project. You already know you'll make mistakes and have to recover from them. That means you're going to make changes to working code, and will need to ensure your changes didn't break anything.) It's also a small project.
Extreme Programming isn't a good choice for all projects, but it sounds as if it might be for this project. If you look at the twelve practices of XP, most of them seem applicable.
Some of the practices won't apply. You can't "pair program" if you're working by yourself. I don't know how close you'll be to "on-site customer." The call for acceptance testing is one you'll need to deal with no matter what process you follow. (This is not the right setting to discuss 40 hour work weeks, so let's not concentrate on that one.)
On the other hand: Small releases and the planning game will get the most important work done first (i.e., when the schedule slips, it'll be less catastrophic than it might otherwise have been). Automated unit tests can speed development, and they are (XPers hardly ever say this) useful design artifacts in their own right.
Having said that, let me say this. Some of these practices take some time and experience to master. (Personally, I can't yet say I really "get" XP-style automated unit tests. I often run into cases where I can't find "the next test" that leads me in the right direction.) You won't be able to pick up Extreme Programming Explained (Amazon.com, BN.com) today and be a good Extreme Programmer tomorrow. Using a new process, even a good one, is like using a new programming language (even a good one): you'll be slower when you're climbing the learning curve. You may not be able to afford that on this project.
Finally, if you turn the job down, do so in a way that doesn't involve burning any bridges. Perhaps say you don't think anyone could succeed under the specified terms. You may yet be called in later if (when?) the first developer hired can't make it happen.
Good luck!
Stupid job ads, weird spam, occasional insight at
When the deadline of a project is shortened, your human resources are capped, and you can't cut back on the quality (any further), there's nothing left but scope. Tell them to take their pick, or make recommendations. Tell them you'll have to push some of the functionality back into a "phase two".
putfwd.com - 1GB Free file storage with a twist
or do what everyone else does and nto worry too much about the 'beta testing' customers.
If the plan is for a long lived site then the first few teething troubles shouldn;t present too much of a problem.
Make sure you are contracted for the months *AFTER* the deadline too [or don't fix the inevitabel bugs]
What you will usually find is that once you have finished it, no-one wants it like that any more anyway.
Keep your head, don't panic. Tell them -no one dies when a website is down. They aren't losing money because if it doesn't work it doesn't work.
BE UP FRONT. Don't tell 'em "Yeah it's going great" when it isn't and don't say "it will never be finished".
good luck.
There are places where the networks are not touching,and there are places where they are-Boeing's Lori Gunter
Several years ago when I found myself on an understaffed tightly (insanely) scheduled project I, and several others on the project, read _Death March: The Complete Software Developer's Guide to Surviving "Mission Impossible" Projects_ by Edward Yourdon.
/. comments. Basically to know what you are getting into and do it with eyes wide open. There are both reasons to do it (money, foot in the door, etc) and reasons to run away, but your most important time to negotiation is before you say "yes".
Summary from Yourdon's site
I see a lot of Yourdon's advice in these
Remeber that you will be able to deliver what looks like a finished product in quite a short period of time.
And as every developer knows it's the polishing off that turns a almost finished project into a finished project that takes the time.
Either backen first (so that the client doesn't get there hopes up) or make sure you explain that the polishing off takes time.
thank God the internet isn't a human right.
A previous poster has already mentioned XP - personally, I think the idea of gtetting your customer to do acceptance tests is pretty powerful in this case.
/.), suppliers usually end up not getting paid. You may not be able to afford to turn down the work, but can you afford to work without getting paid ?
If you have someone from your customer working alongside you, helping you make prioritisation decisions, seeing the progress you're making day after day, you stand a far better chance of having the schedule discussion in a fruitful way.
Most companies have been bitterly disappointed by development projects, and web projects seem to be particularly contentious. Most business folk aren't stupid - but they have been told so much bullsh*t by technical types that they are unlikely to believe you when you say "Trust me, I'm a professional, I alone have the magic mojo to know the future". They need to see first hand that you are someone who delivers (regular small deliveries are far better than a big release after months of frantic coding), who understands their business (user stories and the planning game establish your credibility) and who delivers quality solutions (unit testing and acceptance testing).
It sounds like your prospect has been burnt before - how did they end up with a front end but no back end ? - so the best thing you can do is establish credibility not through making statements about what is and is not possible, but by explaining your doubts and saying "I'm gonna take this job, on these conditions : 1. we look at the deal in a week, and both parties can walk away if we're not happy. 2, someone from your business comes to work with me as an acceptance tester and business guru. They tell me what is and is not important, and tell me when it's good enough". You should be able to make decent progress in a week (if your project allows, 2 weeks would be better...), and at the end your onsite customer will understand the realities of the situation. You can then look at the schedule again using "yesterday's weather" (the easiest way of estimating how quickly you're going to get through your work is to look at progress to date) as the measure of likely success. If you have worked hard, but completed too little of the project to be likely to finish on time, you have a leg to stand on.
The XP principle of building only what you need to get today's tasks done is esp. going to help you out - one problem of database design is that it's very easy to get tied up in beautifully elegant schema designs which almost, but not quite, work.
2 final points : invest in a bug tracker, even if it's a spreadsheet or card index. By using bugzilla or something similar, you can allow your customer to contribute bugs and see the bug list - and you won't forget to fix a little shortcut later.
You also want to make sure you're going to get paid ideally in advance. When development projects go wrong (and let's face it, this one doesn't look too promising regardless of the collected wisdom of
It's all very well in practice, but it will never work in theory.
If you're doing T&M (Time and Material) work then you should be able to hire on a few more people. Tell the client that if they want a properly functional application then it may cost slightly more but you can get it done in the time frame. Then you sit down and do all of the planning and specing you need. Bring in a decent coder or two, bang out the code then finish up the testing on your own. This shouldn't increase your overall costs too much, it may reduce your take of the deal slightly, but if you're desperate for work some is better than none. I was recently in the same situation and this worked great for me.
THIS SPACE FOR RENT
I highly recommend you read about either Extreme Programming or Agile Software. Both of these schools of thought have come to the realization that you never want a big design up front. Keep your design as absolutely simple, dumb, and difficult to screw up as possible. Yes, those all go together. It's the ONLY way to design stable, quality software. No object-database wrapping engines, no XML Soap Servers, massive new framework. If you can possibly get by with some PHP scripts accessing a MySQL database in a weeks worth of time to get 50% the functionality, do it!
Let me say this again: If there is any way to make it simpler, do it. Stop whining, just make it simple.
Refactor your code later, only when needed. By keeping your design simple, you'll save time and those defects you were worring about will be minimal. Testing should be done either through unit tests or simple procedures.
And here's the most important part: give them WEEKLY releases. Never "postpone" a release. This lets them know where you are at in the project, and there will be no surprised or misleading estimates or anything. Never give estimates further out than a week, and always break down tasts into smaller tasks that will take less than a week.
And stop your bitching about not having enough time for a "top bottom" design. Top bottom designs are categorical failures.
-- Ken Kinder ken@_nospam_kenkinder.com http://kenkinder.com/
The customer demands.
I explain that the simpler, better, working implementation I just showed them is really what they want.
The customer re-iterates demands.
The project manager capitulates, and I get stuck writing extensive logic in a scripting language (!) to do something completely tasteless that will only dismay the customer when the lousy repercussions of their demands hit them in the face.
"Welcome to software consulting" says the project manager.
The fact that I held true to my ethics and tried to dissuade the customer is cold comfort.
Get thee glass eyes, and, like a scurvy politician, seem to see things thou dost not.--King Lear
They have the look and feel developed before they have something to look at and feel? This one is doomed, kinda like trying to build a car under the paint job that is already complete.
I'd work in an XP-like pair-programming environment with a commercial Common Lisp, since it would maximise fluidity of design.
But you'd really have to already know real Lisp (not Scheme) to do that.
If you look closely, it is very likely you will see that the example you gave is just one of many crazy things happening at the company that is suggesting the impossible deadline.
My experience is that we only get called into the most disastrous situations. If these were well-managed companies, with cheerful, friendly, helpful, intelligent, introspective employees, they wouldn't need us in the first place.
Free lancers are asked to solve the problems caused by lazy, inept, and cruel managers, and are forced to interact with lazy, inept, rude, and hateful employees. That's just the way it is.
Rise above it: Be kind, considerate, helpful, industrious, and talented, and, in the long run, people will remember you for it. Or at least that's what I'm hoping.
PS: Above all else, KEEP YOUR MOUTH SHUT! Nothing foments a torch & pitchfork peasants' rebellion quite like publicizing the obvious blunders they've made in their work.
In addition to the comments on using XP to solve all your problems, you may want to consider searching the internet for:
I'm baffled that more people aren't suggesting this, but if they want such a short timeframe... then they should be pay for it.
And that means you need to get extra programmers working with you. Do a little sub-contracting if necessary.
That could easily speed up the process. Especially if you write modular code.
--Zuchini
Sig sigga.. who stole the keys to ma beema!
While the advice to try a different development methodology is well-intentioned, getting your head around new concepts is probably going to set your timelines back even further.
While your clients may have a list of features the database/web front end needs to have, they will have some key requirements that are more important that anything else. If they say all their requirements are manditory, they're lying - evaluate their business, their market position and decide for them which features their business needs most.
Then offer to deliver only these features within the time required - and because you've left enough time to fully test the key features, you should come out with your professional credibility intact.
You may need some assistance in negotiation skills, to better explain the development position to the client - try
Rosette, A.S., Kopelman, S. & Thompson, L.L. (2000). High-performance contract negotiation skills. Product Management Today, 11 (7), 38-41.
Best of luck, [K]
K.
...that 'trick' is what has come to be known as the 'Scotty Principle'.
"Oh no! You din'non tell the Cap'n how long it will rrreally take??!!"
Looks like the project is in triage before it has really begun. Step one: identify the reletively free standing sub projects. Likely, one or two parts will be keys that the rest depend on. Try to determine what would be 'substantial functionality' and try to convince them that that would be phase one and that phase two will have to be late. See if you can bring in help to work on some of the sub projects. While the man month truly is mythical, if the pieces are independant enough, the communication overhead (between programmers that is) shouldn't be too bad.
Ultimately, your decision will be based on how they respond to the bad news. The last thing you need is to be holding the bag if the project fails. Especially if that means they don't want to pay you or it reflects on your reputation.
IFF they are willing to accept that only a portion of the project can be completed by their deadline (and sign off on that plan), it could be a good thing. If not, it can only be a disaster.
hire more people so you'll do it faster
i think it's my typing more than my spelling
There are places where the networks are not touching,and there are places where they are-Boeing's Lori Gunter
I say these are real difficulties because they are typically the areas where many software developers throw up their hands and declare their utter distaste for those parts of the work. However from a business perpsective these are the key parameters.
The average customer of software systems has about as much interest in language wars, the utility of schemas over DTDs, VB vs EJBs, XP and OOP as a car buyer has in the the underlying crystalline structure of the steel in his car.
Ergo, If you want to educate your customer as to the challenges presented by his/her schedule and functional demands couch it in terms that they have some hope of grasping. What is the purpose of the site, what is the impact to first time viewers of untested components, how will it be supported over the long term, what is the expected lifetime, what are the budgetary constraints, what are the resource constraints.
> Use CRC cards to design and plan your project simultaneously.
Why do you need to do a Cylical Redundancy Check?