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Why VHS Was Better

otis wildflower writes "An article in the UK's Guardian describes why, in the end, VHS is better than Betamax. While this may not be terribly useful knowledge on its own, the author then makes a pretty convincing case that viewing something's success or failure purely on technical merit is not an entirely accurate way of looking at things. For better or for worse, success of new products and technologies is determined by a broad range of factors that make up "the whole product", quality being only one, and possibly a minor one at that. Kind of explains what happened to the Atari Lynx and Jaguar, dunnit?"

67 of 497 comments (clear)

  1. Fooey by zapfie · · Score: 3, Funny

    I really thought Betamax was close to winning, too..

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  2. And in mor important news: by N3WBI3 · · Score: 3, Funny

    I stubbed my toe this morning, this will have an effect on a total of one more person than the end of sony betamax...

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  3. Dang... by tinrobot · · Score: 4, Funny

    No more Betamax? I guess I'll need to buy a new doorstop then.

  4. In other news: by xeroh · · Score: 5, Funny

    Phillips has decided to discontinue the 8-track tape.

  5. Gah by Reality+Master+101 · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Not the ol' Beta-superiority-undone-by-better-marketing myth.

    Beta was superior in ONE WAY: it had slightly better quality. Yes, I said slightly.

    VHS, on the other hand, had a LOT of advantages:

    a) Longer recording length, which is what really killed Beta
    b) Less expensive players
    c) Less expensive media
    d) Non-proprietary

    Bottom line, VHS was far superior in the areas that mattered.

    --
    Sometimes it's best to just let stupid people be stupid.
    1. Re:Gah by pthisis · · Score: 3, Informative

      True. See e.g. Urbanlegends.com's beta vs vhs page.

      Sumner

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    2. Re:Gah by Qrlx · · Score: 5, Informative

      Actually, I think the biggest thing that Beta had going for it was that you could scan the tape while fast-forwarding. On VHS, you had to stop, wait for the moving parts to stop whirring, and then press play to see where you were on a tape.

      Eventually the VHS people figured out how to do it, but for the first ten years or so you had to get out of fast forward mode in order to get a picture on the screen. Beta could do that from the get-go, and it made working with the tape, a lot faster and easier.

      I'm sure someone who is really into video will take up the crusade of why beta is sooo much better than VHS, but eventually VHS more or less caught up, and the six hour tape thing was a really big deal, one in which Beta never could compete. Beta, while technologically superior, was cursed by poor political decisions on the part of Sony, and the tapes were too short anyway.

      VHS was to Beta what Microsoft was to IBM back in the 80s -- the open architecture alternative. (Sorry, I had to throw that analogy in just to be cantankerous.)

      Let's face it, DVD is a million times better than either VHS or Beta. And if you still need an old beta player, check your local thrift shops. There's more of them out there than you might think.

    3. Re:Gah by pthisis · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Eventually the VHS people figured out how to do it, but for the first ten years or so you had to get out of fast forward mode in order to get a picture on the screen.

      Our VHS circa 1982 lets you see the picture while you fast-forward. It also has a remote control with a cord on it, which is less than useful.

      Still works, though mono audio forced it off the main TV long before DVD did the same for our newer VHS.

      Sumner

      --
      rage, rage against the dying of the light
    4. Re:Gah by Fulcrum+of+Evil · · Score: 3, Funny

      Our VHS circa 1982 lets you see the picture while you fast-forward. It also has a remote control with a cord on it, which is less than useful.

      More useful than you may think - betcha never lost it in the couch.

      --
      "We returned the General to El Salvador, or maybe Guatemala, it's difficult to tell from 10,000 feet"
    5. Re:Gah by tgibbs · · Score: 4, Insightful
      Not the ol' Beta-superiority-undone-by-better-marketing myth. Beta was superior in ONE WAY: it had slightly better quality. Yes, I said slightly.
      Actually, beta was superior in a number of ways at different times. Sony was ahead in technology by about 6 months, but VHS always caught up. For example, Sony had high fidelity sound about 6 months ahead of VHS. Similarly, when SuperBeta came in, beta was considerably more than slightly superior in terms of picture, but VHS HQ almost closed the gap within 6 months. The one area where betas seemed to remain consistently superior was in tape handling. Even the cheapest betas were superior to VHS in going, say from fast forward to play, although some of today's high-end VHS players are as good as the old betas.

      Both beta (Sony) and VHS (JVC) were proprietary formats, and both were licensed to other companies. Betas were made also by Zenith and Sanyo. However, Sony justifiably regarded their VCRs as a high-end product, and charged a premium (and presumably for licenses as well).

      I don't believe that shorter recording length killed beta. Long-play L750 tapes were available well before the decline of beta. VHS maintained a length advantage with their larger cassettes, but it was modest. Neither was there much difference in media cost, although with the decline of beta, beta blank tapes became more of a specialty item, and more costly.

      I think what really killed beta was the rise of videtape rental. And in fact, it the fall of beta coincided with the spread of video rental shops. As long as people bought VCRs to time-shift and archive shows for TV, Sony's high-end strategy was viable. But people began to use their players mainly for watching rented movies, and carrying both formats doubled the cost for video rental outlets. A store could do better by focusing on VHS tapes, since the cheaper VHS machines sold more widely. Greater availability of rentals for VHS encouraged sales of VHS players, widening the gap between beta and VHS--which encouraged video shops to cut back even further on beta stock in favor of VHS. By the time Sony finally gave up and started making VHS players, many rental outlets offered exclusively VHS tapes.

  6. "good technology outdone by better marketing" by PaschalNee · · Score: 3, Interesting

    This is one that is always quoted by marketing heads. Anybody have any good evidence to back this up? Why was beta better? What was the marketing campaign that won it for VHS?

    I don't necessarily doubt this but I'd love to see the detail.

    1. Re:"good technology outdone by better marketing" by pthisis · · Score: 4, Informative

      It isn't really true. See e.g. http://www.urbanlegends.com/products/beta_vs_vhs.h tml

      "True, except for the recording length, Sony pioneered most of the improvements over the years, but the VHS manufacturers caught up to each improvement, usually in less than a year. So, for instance, within a month of Sony's announcement of Beta Hi-Fi, JVC and Panasonsic announced VHS Hi-Fi formats...Comparisons between VCRs with similar features showed no significant differences in performance. In fact, most of the differences could only be seen with sensitive instruments, and likely would never show up on most consumer grade television sets. [5] In particular, the qualitative differences between the two formats were less than the differences between any two samples from the same manufacturer. [8]"

      Sumner

      --
      rage, rage against the dying of the light
    2. Re:"good technology outdone by better marketing" by (trb001) · · Score: 3, Insightful

      here's a link that might help you. Essentially, Beta was first and had most of the innovations, but VHS won out overall. Betas quality was, as everyone will state, better but the record time and lack of pre-recorded media helped to kill it.

      --trb

    3. Re:"good technology outdone by better marketing" by UserChrisCanter4 · · Score: 5, Informative

      It wasn't really marketing. As previously indicated, it was Sony shooting themselves in the foot.

      Beta did have an ever so slightly higher horizontal reolution (the way most TV video sources are measured) than VHS. I wanna say 350 lines vs. 320, or something asinine like that. But, technically, it was better.

      For the better majority of Beta's life, though, Sony was the only company who made players. They didn't want anyone else getting a slice of the pie. When companies like Panasonic, Philips, RCA, etc. wanted to make a Beta player, Sony said, "no".

      Enter JVC.

      JVC came up with VHS. it's not quite as good, but they didn't have any real technical disadvantage. But (and this is the big thing), they would license technology. Philips, Panasonic, and RCA could now make a VCR. Now the consumer had a lot of choices: some companies could make stripped-down models, or models with different features, or what-have-you. Additionally, the customers who just have to have all of their equipment the same brand can do so.

      It wasn't really marketing in the way someone wants to think (ads and so forth), it was just a better idea.

      Think about it this way: Apple vs. PC. If IBM's technology had stayed completely proprietary, and Compaq had never reverse engineered the system, there's a good chance Apple or even some other platform would've won. Instead, there are 1,000s of brand-names for PC and still just one Apple.

  7. What they *really* want by rknop · · Score: 4, Interesting

    ...is to kill the Supreme Court Betamax decision, now that they find that they'd rather have the ability of perfect control over media. Maybe they're hoping that by killing the technology the suit was over, the ruling will go away... :)

    -Rob

  8. Betamax? by Xenopax · · Score: 3, Interesting

    I didn't even realize that it was still possible to get anything in a betamax format. Seriously, I'm not trying to troll, but when was the last time anyone even saw a betamax tape for sale?

  9. Betamax-Betacam by genka · · Score: 4, Informative

    Betamax and Betacam formats have little in common. They share the shape of the cassette, but tape are different. Recording speed and layout is different too. Whatever it is now, Beta is doing just fine in broadcast industry. The major types are:
    Betacam (Obsolete)
    Betacam SP (Probably the most popular analog pro video format)
    Digital Betacam (Excellent quality, very slight compression)
    Betacam SX (Compressed Digital, Cheaper than above)
    All formats, except for the original Betacam support not only Betamax style cassette, but also a large one with 3x recording time.

  10. Good timing... by Anonvmous+Coward · · Score: 4, Informative

    Not a bad time to do it. DV has matured enough to absorb the impact. As a matter of fact, I bought a $500 video camera that uses Digital8 and am surprised at it's capabilities.

    I have Premiere ($500ish), After Effects ($600ish), Photoshop ($600), and Lightwave ($1,600) as well. My $5,000 setup (my computer included) kicks the crap out of the TV studio I worked in a couple of years ago where one 3/4th Beta Deck cost around $20,000. The downside is that I don't quite get the color data that beta does. Can't say I miss it yet.

    Price per performance has really changed in the last 5 years.

    I wish I could record TV to MiniDV, though...

    1. Re:Good timing... by edremy · · Score: 4, Informative

      I wish I could record TV to MiniDV, though...

      Get a digital-analog bridge and you can. I've been using a Formac Studio with no problems. RCA/SVideo in, Firewire out or vice versa.

      --
      "Seven Deadly Sins? I thought it was a to-do list!"
  11. What about SuperBeta? by Tin+Weasil · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Years ago (1991-1993) I was working for the Navy Broadcasting Service in Keflavik Iceland. Every week we would receive a shipment of three large containers. Each container was packed with video tapes containing content for us to play the following month on our base-wide television station. The tapes came in "SuperBeta" format from Sony. Basically, the tapes were some version of "BetaMax" but on tapes that were almost twice the width of the standard beta tape. Each tape could hold about 90 minutes of programming.

    The format was great. It produced very nice resolution (which is needed for any kind of broadcasting, due to signal loss.) There are still television stations out there (particularly entertainment for military audiences) that still use the SuperBeta format. I'm wondering if Sony is going to force these stations to upgrade their facilities or if they will keep producing SuperBeta after the demise of Betamax.

  12. Beta*CAM* by ArcSecond · · Score: 5, Informative

    I said it once, I'll say it again: BETAMAX != BETACAM. If you worked in video, you would know that. Max was a market failure, period. BetaCam is an industry standard. They have nothing to do with each other.

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  13. Need some NFO?! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Informative

    Obviously there aren't many videographers on /.

    http://www.dvcentral.org/DV-Beta.html

    Sony Corp.'s Betacam SP format is the standard of comparison of video tape recording formats. According to Sony Europe, more than 350,000 Betacam SP devices have been sold world-wide. The majority of broadcast electronic news gathering (ENG) operations currently use Betacam SP camcorders and VTRs. Virtually all broadcast stations require (or at least strongly prefer) Betacam SP source footage. Most clients of professional video production firms specify Betacam SP for industrial shoots and are likely to require videographers to use Sony or Ikegami camcorders. Although the M-II format from Panasonic Broadcast and Digital (formerly Television) Systems Company (PB&DSC) offers about the same performance as Betacam SP, Sony and Betacam SP are untouchable when it comes to brand recognition and status. As a result, all other video recording formats are ranked as "not up to Beta SP," "equal to Betacam SP," or "better than Beta SP." These comparisons, based on the beholders' perception of image quality, are reminiscent of the meaningless "broadcast quality" and "studio quality" bullet points on advertisements for consumer and low-end prosumer video gear.

    The advent of the Digital Video (DV) format has ignited a controversy among current and prospective users of DV gear. Initially, arguments appeared regarding the "legality" of broadcasting NTSC DV's 480 instead of 483 active lines of video. Obviously, if broadcasting less than 483 active lines was illegal, all U.S. stations transmitting letterboxed movies would have by now lost their licenses. The subsequent controversy, DV's 4:1:1 vs. ITU-R BT.601-4 (formerly CCIR-601) 4:2:2 sampling, has generated thousands of messages in on-line forums, newsgroups, and listservers. This paper represents an attempt to dispel the rumor and innuendo surrounding the 4:1:1 versus 4:2:2 issue, especially as it relates to the "Is DV better (or worse) than Betacam SP?" controversy, and DV compression artifacts.

  14. JVCs Open Licensing v. Sony's Obstinance the Key by FreeUser · · Score: 5, Insightful

    here's [urbanlegends.com] a link that might help you. Essentially, Beta was first and had most of the innovations, but VHS won out overall. Betas quality was, as everyone will state, better but the record time and lack of pre-recorded media helped to kill it.

    Pre-recorded media wasn't a factor until long after the VHS-Beta battle was over. Almost no one was buying movies back then ... the big rage was the ability to record your own movies and material, directly off the television transmission.

    The urbanlegends link portrays one perspective (and is quoted as an authority, although in truth it is no more authoritative than any other perspective), however, other early players in the consumer video market have argued a much different perspective.

    At any given point in time, Beta was noticably better than VHS in features/quality (recording length excepted, although almost no one uses the 8 hour super-slow really-crappy record mode that I know), so saying "VHS caught up" really sidesteps the entire question of why VHS won, given that at any point in the battle VHS was on the losing side of the "technically better" argument.

    What really killed Beta, according to some players at the time, was Sony's asinine licensing, or rather, the lack thereof, in direct contrast to JVC's willingness to license VHS to pretty much anyone willing to write a check. The entire event is very analogous to Apple undercutting other power-pc manufacturers, or Sun undercutting other sparc manufacturers, Sony was very stringent in who they would license Beta to.

    The result was that there were four or five competing VHS brands, against Sony's Beta. Consumers correctly perceived a competitive market on the one hand, and a Sony proprietary market on the other, and as they did with Intel vs. Everyone else (remember, Intel allowed for competing motherboard and computer manufacturers, IBM notwithstanding), consumers went for the format that had clear competition.

    The other factor of having multiple VHS manufacturers is the perception that VHS was already a standard catching on, while Sony was the sole promoter of Beta. Whether consumers chose VHS because they saw competition, or because they perceived it as having caught on (since there was competition), or simply because of price, the fact remains that the deciding factor was licensing and the presence of multiple vendors, not the quality of the underlying format.

    In a sense that could be called 'marketing', but more correctly VHS's success is attributable to its 'licensing.'

    --
    The Future of Human Evolution: Autonomy
  15. Once and for all... by excaliburdj · · Score: 3, Informative

    First off...BEFORE YOU POST EVERONE STOP AND READ THIS COMMENT!!!

    From the Yahoo! article:

    Sony said it would continue to offer repairs and manufacture tapes for the format, adding the move would not affect its Betacam products for the broadcasting industry.

    GOT IT? Good. Don't post any more about how the broadcast industry is being hurt by this, or they're pulling the rug out from under them blah blah blah blah.

    Now....on to the purpose of my post. We actually had a couple of Beta VCR's at my house for several years. My significant other enjoyed the format because...ready for this??....the tapes were smaller and took up less storage space (Groan..) But I liked the format because initially it did have better quality than VHS. And, with the evolution of the format, you could record nearly 2 hours of video on a tape, more than enough for a standard movie (Titanic fans, please don't flame me!!!)

    On a little different note...Sony has a little present history doing this. Let me see by a show of hands (wait...no...that won't work)...uh...a show of posts, then, how many people own and operate a MiniDisk player on a regular basis? Anyone following the standards debate on Blu-ray?

  16. Betamax not Betacam by FattMattP · · Score: 5, Informative
    Yes, they were successful in broadcast...
    I think you are confusing Betamax (consumer format) with Betacam (broadcast format). Betacam is very much alive while I don't think Betamax was ever used for broadcast work. The quality is too low.
    --
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  17. You mean Coke II? by yerricde · · Score: 3, Informative

    Coca-Cola, Inc. announces it is discontinuing its "New Coke" line of products.

    New Coke was renamed to "Coke II" in 1990. Apparently, Coca-Cola Co. still sells Coke II in some metropolitan areas.


    --
    ENJOY COCAINE!
    --
    Will I retire or break 10K?
  18. Probably BetaCam by zenyu · · Score: 3, Informative

    This is the format used for old school digital editing cuz it lets you timecode, and has decent quality. It will probably continue to be used for archiving and broadcast for some time to come.

    Basically, these a days you transfer your source material onto beta, then into the editing station, then you edit, then you transfer onto another beta for distribution and delete the material from the editing station. You don't delete the edits so if you need to tweak it later you can get it back from the source material beta. In the olden days you'd to the edits on a low res-version on the computer, then use the edits to stream the right frames from the source beta to the final beta.

    You can use DVC but it is significantly lower quality in my (limited) experience. DVD-R makes more sense for the final these days though. The disks are cheap and play in many more places. I saw a BBC pilot distributed that way a few weeks ago.

  19. Re:clarification... by blincoln · · Score: 3, Informative

    Actually, as others have posted, this turns out not to be the case.
    Betacam is a broadcast format. Betamax (AKA "Beta") is a home format. They have little in common other than both being made by Sony.

    --
    "...always new atoms but always doing the same dance, remembering what the dance was yesterday." -Richard Feynman
  20. Don't forget the porn angle, too... by kriegsman · · Score: 3, Interesting

    I've read several times now that because VHS tapes themselves were cheaper than Beta tapes, the suddenly-revitalized (due to VCRs in general) porn industry had a preference for publishing on VHS tapes. With more porn titles available on VHS, VHS quickly became the format of choice for home VCRs.
    (Check out the book "Obscene Profits" by Frederick Lane.)

    -Mark

  21. why my friends care... by sckeener · · Score: 3, Funny

    The only people I know that love beta are a bunch of guys with classic p0rn that can't be replaced....

    (don't ask)

    --
    "Only one thing, is impossible for god: to find any sense in any copyright law on the planet." Mark Twain
  22. Not this crap again. by Space+Coyote · · Score: 4, Insightful

    This guy basically takes way too long to explain that BetaMax had was by far the better product, but then simply states that, despite all of its advantages, VHS is still better because it's more popular.

    And he minimizes the difference in image quality between the two formats, wihch is a mistake. BetaMax's image quality was, and is, much better, both initially and especially after multiple passes.

    To quote a fellow Farker on this guy: I think I'll go out and purchase a cheap but popular car.

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    Cogito cogito, ergo cogito sum.
    1. Re:Not this crap again. by melonman · · Score: 5, Insightful

      but then simply states that, despite all of its advantages, VHS is still better because it's more popular.

      There whas a bit more to his argument than that:

      VHS offered a bigger choice of hardware at lower cost, the tapes were cheaper and more easily available, there were a lot more movies to rent, and so on.

      Those sound like three quite important arguments to me, unless money is no object, you like buying hardware from a de facto monopoly, hunting for media is your idea of fun and you don't actually want to watch movies, just admire the spec.

      A bit further on, he points out another specific flaw in Sony's market research:

      Sony got one simple decision wrong. It chose to make smaller, neater tapes that lasted for an hour, whereas the VHS manufacturers used basically the same technology with a bulkier tape that lasted two hours.

      Now I don't know a lot about the details, but would it have been that hard for Sony to provide essentially the same technology with a larger box and a longer tape? As the article continues:

      Their spouses/children/grandparents and everybody else would quickly have told them the truth. "We're going out tonight and I want to record a movie. That Betamax tape is useless: it isn't long enough. Get rid of it."

      And that's the basis problem with the general population who decide which products succeed by their purchasing decisions: they see technology as a means to an end, not as something to admire for its intrinsic cleverness.

      --
      Virtually serving coffee
    2. Re:Not this crap again. by nehril · · Score: 4, Insightful

      I think the image quality differences are a big deal only to a very small segment. The difference between VHS's "good" and BetaMax's "great" is lost on most people. good is good enough. people will opt for lossy "compression" for the sake of more content (witness the MP3 format's success.) consider that even with vhs most people will record at whatever level gives them the longest record time, sacrificing quality.

      Ask the average tivo owner what quality level they select for their seinfeld reruns. VHS won because it gave people more of less, in a way. Just like McDonalds makes money hand over fist serving "food" that would make a french chef gag. :)

    3. Re:Not this crap again. by melonman · · Score: 4, Insightful

      But none of those are technological reasons.

      I would have thought that the storage capacity was quite an important technological criterion for a storage medium. If the technology is for home recording, and the tape it too short to record what a lot of people what to record, ie full-length films, isn't that a bit of a drawback? I have to say that I'd rather see all of a film at less than perfect quality than all but the last 20 minutes of a film at wonderful quality.

      --
      Virtually serving coffee
    4. Re:Not this crap again. by roybadami · · Score: 4, Insightful

      And he has a pop at linux, but linux isn't meant to be a whole product

      Well, not directly. He does say that Wintel is the best whole product, and for many classes of users it currently is. That doesn't mean we can't change that, though.

      It's also interesting to apply the whole product anaysis to infrastructure services. For many services, Linux or UNIX of some flavour is clearly the best whole product. It comes with the infrastructure services you need as standard (mail servers, DNS servers, etc), and there's a huge support network of people out there using these UNIX tools in a native UNIX environment. Yes, you *can* run these tools under Wintel, but Linux/UNIX is the best whole product.

    5. Re:Not this crap again. by vsprintf · · Score: 3, Insightful

      I thought the guy basically said that betamax videos were too short, 1 hour, meaning that people couldn't record a movie.

      Those would have been the very first tapes, and I doubt more than a very few rich people bought those machines. By the time VHS was declared the winner, there wasn't much difference between the two types - IIRC, six hours for VHS and about five hours for Betamax tapes (and of course the Betamax tapes were smaller).

      Most of the rest of the author's claims were a load of bull as well, like his claim that there's no difference in picture quality. I owned both types of machines at the same time because I bought the Betamax before VHS became more popular and I then had to buy the second machine. The picture quality of the Betamax recordings were obviously better than recordings made on the newer VHS machine.

    6. Re:Not this crap again. by buggy_throwback · · Score: 4, Funny

      You do know that treating people differently because their blind and stupid is prejudice dont you?

  23. survival of the fittest by Interfacer · · Score: 5, Insightful

    a lot of people are confused about this phrase, thinking of 'fit' as being technical superior.

    in fact the term fit does have nothing to do with that, but should be interpreted as 'fitted for a certain purpose'

    for example one of the reasons that windows version whatever is so popular with computer iliterate persons is that it takes you by the hand to do a lot of things, which can be a pain for power users, but not for newbies. in that sense windows is most 'fitted' for that situation, just as linux is for power users, server systems, or as BSD on powerful stable systems with 1000's of connections at a time.

    other examples are software programming where C++ can be the best solution for developing algorithms, and VB for simple DB connected user interfaces.

    the 'fittest' solution survives in the place where it is used at its best. C is not 'better' than VB. it is fit for other purposes than VB.

    you can only talk about 'better' when two things are designed for the exact same purpose.

    Interfacer.

    1. Re:survival of the fittest by MasonMcD · · Score: 3, Interesting

      And Darwin's concept was done a great injustice by bandying about the phrase "survival of the fittest," when it should have been merely, "survival of the fit."

      If you find a niche, it doesn't matter that there are successful predators out there that eat you, you merely must reproduce, faster than they can, and faster than they can eat.

      In the case of the mac (which is what we're really talking about here, huh? VHS vs. Betamax! Pshaw! THoS EaR COdE WeRdZ!), Apple just has to watch Dell, HP, Compaq (oops!) et al figure out who's the Alpha Male of the dinosaur VARs, and let them gobble each other up. See http://www.mammals.org.

  24. Not at all... by Jayson · · Score: 4, Insightful

    He argues that Betamax was actually more popular when it began, and they had a "defacto monopoly from tape incompatabilities." The author says that the reason Betamax lost the market was that it didn't do what the consumer wanted, to be able to record an entire movie unattended due to their one hour tape versus the VHS two hour tape. He has some other arguments, such as the Betamax was originally higher priced (and was cheaper, but only after losing market too much market share to matter).

    His point wasn't that you can look at a single factor (e.g., popularity), but you have to weight products more holistically.

    1. Re:Not at all... by orthogonal · · Score: 4, Insightful
      The author says that the reason Betamax lost the market was that it didn't do what the consumer wanted, to be able to record an entire movie unattended due to their one hour tape versus the VHS two hour tape. He has some other arguments, such as the Betamax was originally higher priced....

      Hmmm. Makes me think of MP3s versus CDs. I listen to all of my music on MP3, despite having a (Sony, ironically enough!) 50 CD "jukebox".

      Why do I sacrifice quality by listening to MP3s rather than CDs?
      • Convenience: I can easily set up arbitrarily long, arbitrarily ordered MP3 playlists, and without the time it takes for the "jukebox" to physically chnage CDs.
      • Greater selection at cheaper prices. While I do not and will not download MP3s to which I don't have a license, I can and do subscribe to emusic.com. This gives me an excellent selection of medium quality (128 kbps) MP3s, far more than I could afford as CDs -- and far more than I'd be tempted to "try out", buying CDs I might later find out didn't justify a $10-$20 price tag.
      • Portability: Carrying around a portable CD player generally resulted in my listening to a single CD, over and over, as carrying additional CDs was inconvenient (see reason #1, above) and resulted in losing numerous Cds. carrying around my Archos MP3 player gives my my entire music collection (currently about 14 GBs in MP3 format) in my pocket.
      • Quality: I can't easily hear the difference in quality between a CD and an MP3, even when the MP3 is piped through the (now empty) "jukebox"'s speakers. To the extent that I can hear the difference, I prefer to indulge my eclectic musical taste in quantity rather than fewer selections in quality. Your mileage will undoutedly vary.
      Quality's important, don't misunderstand me. But let me chicken out by closing with a few choice cliches: Often the best is the enemy of the good, and enough (quality, ironically, not quantity) is as good as a feast, and more than enough is as bad as a surfeit.
  25. The only convincing bit was... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

    When they were released, betamax had only 1 hour tapes.. VHS had two hour tapes...

    You could record a film onto VHS... which you couldn't do with beta unless you were sitting in front of it to change the tapes halfway through.

  26. good article by riaa · · Score: 3, Insightful

    if i remember correctly, greedy sony refused to license the technology to anyone else, wanting all the profit for themselves. instead they got nothing.
    also didnt know beta could not record a whole movie (never owned 8 trach either). what were they thinking? they must have known tv shows were 1/2 and 1 hours long, and that movies were longer. im sure they were not afraid of copyright violations, as they took the movie industry to court for 'consumer' rights an won. dont think they are so generous now that they own a record label.
    these days sony is a grimy, sleazy company with very little to offer besides hype. i cant think of one product they have that someone else doesnt make better.

    --
    A name you can trust.
  27. This will continue by indigogorge.net · · Score: 5, Interesting

    As long as some companies try to make everyone buy proprietary products, this will happen. VHS was not better than BetaMax. Sony simply did not want to share. Hence, VHS was more widely accepted because everyone could buy a VHS player, and not a very pricy BetaMax player. If you looked at minidisk 12 years ago, when CDs where starting to come out, they offered the same capacity, and so many more features. But in the End, it was cheaper for people to buy CDs, instead of buying proprietary expensive Sony only players and products. Same thing with sony memorystick. Make it an open source product, and just collect license fees, or what have you. Then everyone will use it if it is a good thing. I'm sure there are a lot more companies like this, but I just picked on Sony because it is their original product.

  28. A lesson the Linux worlds needs to learn by rufusdufus · · Score: 5, Insightful

    The value of a product is not defined by its creators. It is defined by its market. Meaning its users and customers.

    Linux is doomed to be a niche player until this fact is more widely accepted. It doesn't matter what geeks think about the product if the end user is not satisfied, overjoyed even.

    As it is today, woe to any newbie who wants to jump on the linux bandwagon; all they get is name calling and static when they have real problems. The overall experience can be very unpleasant.

    1. Re:A lesson the Linux worlds needs to learn by reallocate · · Score: 4, Insightful

      True, true. I'd add that most geeks also seem to expect computer users to progress from a newbie state (Windows) to a "power user" state" Linux. In other words, they expect the customer to change rather than the product.

      What they seem to fail to understand is that many, if not most computer users, aren't that interested in computers, no more than they have an abiding interest in how television works. Its "what" it enables them to do, not how it does it, that counts.

      --
      -- Slashdot: When Public Access TV Says "No"
    2. Re:A lesson the Linux worlds needs to learn by Paul+Neubauer · · Score: 4, Insightful

      And if any proof of that attitude is needed, just look at that nasty responses jwz got for speaking out for usability...

      There was an earlier media format that one company came up with, and wanted adopted so badly that they pretty much gave away the licensing for it. It worked. And the 33-1/3 LP caught on quite well.

      --
      I don't subscribe to RMS's GNUtopian vision.
  29. Quick summary by Espen · · Score: 3, Insightful

    VHS was better because it became more popular.

    Next week we will be arguing that the best music ever composed is that which has sold the most, and that the best movie is the one which has been the highest grossing.

    In summary, the best approach to creating the best new and exciting products is to recycle old ones in new packaging and market the hell out of them.

    1. Re:Quick summary by TommyAquinas · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Like, say, Lindows (tm)?

      "fast follower" is a highly effective marketing strategy. In the context of the article, 'best' implies market acceptance, not quality.

      RB

      --
      Technology Marketing is what happens when people turn their hard work over to people paid to manipulate others.
  30. He's right... He's wrong... by Jayson · · Score: 4, Interesting

    He says that geeks don't understand about the total package and that technical ability isn't the only thing. He's right in that is what geeks say. However, geeks do realize this, but they just don't know it.

    From an example taken from The Other Site in the last day: programming languages. People will willingly use broken languages, not as superior, because they interface to more things, can be applied to more general purpose situations (even when they shouldn't be), or have bigger libraries. You only need to look to Perl and C.

    Perl is an attrocious language judging on purely technical merits, however CPAN and all the sugar it has are what give people reason to use it. You will often hear the C or Perl apologist say, "it does what I need good enough" or "I get work done in it." This is almost the same decision calculous that the author is expousing: people chose VHS because it did what they needed (recording a two hour movie unattended) and it did it well enough (they couldn't tell the difference in image quality).

  31. If you build it they will come by ageOfWWIV · · Score: 3, Insightful

    A great deal of this article spends its time talking about the "whole product" and applying it to everything from software to cars.

    He says when consumers buy a technologically inferior product, they are really buying the ability to chooseand buying product support/longevity

    Really? I thought the success of competing standards has always been based on two things: clout and marketing, not technical specifications. Your average consumer will choose brand X not because they've carefully weighed the benefits of it over brand Y but because they saw a really funny ad on superbowl sunday about it. Don't overestimate the average joe since what he will always buy into, is the hype.
    ___

    --

    ____
    ATS11=0 the secret to beating everyone else to a 1 line board.
  32. Its not just the technical by locarecords.com · · Score: 4, Interesting
    I think this is an important point when creating technical projects - it is not just the technical specifications that sell a product (well for non-slashdot readers anyway ;-)


    I don't know if anyone has come across the writer Bruno Latour but he argues convincingly that we need a more complex understanding of the way technology projects are started, run and completed in order to understand why certain technical decisions are made. Afterall there can be cost constraints, efficiency constraints, material constraints, management constraints, organisational constraints (ie we don't do it like that here) and so on and on.


    The phrase heterogeneous engineering is a great term that refers to the way technical people have to engineer not just, say, the software, but also the managers, other people, organisational lethagy and so on just to get the thing out of the drawing room (let alone the door).


    I remember working for a very prestigious and large media company who could not see the value of the Internet whatso ever. No matter how much I banged on about it. In the end I left as it was clear the managers and company were still living in the land of VAX/VMS... Shit they were *still* worrying about X25!


    But it is interesting how we as engineers have to have the social skills as well as technical skills in order to move a project forward... and that can be much harder than the technical!

    --
    ---- The Open Source Record Label : : LOCARECORDS.COM
  33. Re:What a load of crap by bobcox · · Score: 4, Informative

    I still use a Sony C20 Betamax which I bought brand new some, er, probably 18 years ago.

    The picture quality is still embarrassingly better than our nearly new Panasonic VHS. ISTR that the Betamax has a technically superior tape path and is a sort of scaled down version of the U-Matic.

    (The U-Matic was an industrial and ENG standard format some years ago and used 3/4" tape in a large cassette).

  34. Tomorrow on Slashdot by SlashdotLemming · · Score: 5, Funny

    Why Iron was better than Bronze

  35. Random VHS fact! by iamdrscience · · Score: 5, Informative

    Ever wonder what VHS stands for?
    It stands for Vertical Helix Scan

    now you know and knowing is half the battle...

  36. No! You're Kidding, Right? by kmellis · · Score: 3, Interesting
    "...the author then makes a pretty convincing case that viewing something's success or failure purely on technical merit is not an entirely accurate way of looking at things."
    This just makes me laugh and laugh and laugh. I mean, to the larger portion of the educated population, this is so obvious as to be not even worth mentioning.

    To a portion of the population--strongly represented here in Slashdot and probably among whom there's an elevated rate of Asperger's Syndrome--this must surely seem heretical.

    I recall a time a few years ago when a fellow software "engineer" tried to express to me his irritation that multinational executives still flew around all over the world to have face-to-face meetings when teleconferencing VR rigs would be cheaper. I said, well, maybe it's the big, ugly, uncomfortable headgear that puts those executives off of such a cool technology. Among other things. "It just doesn't make sense", he replied.

    No, I guess it doesn't make sense to people like that. Every time a clearly superior technology doesn't succeed in the market place, it must be the result of insidious forces acting in conspiracy to thwart the will of the smart and rational people. They say. "Linux is clearly the superior operating system. When will people wake up and realize that?" When, indeed? Maybe when it is?

  37. Consumers define Quality. by AftanGustur · · Score: 3, Insightful


    For better or for worse, success of new products and technologies is determined by a broad range of factors that make up "the whole product", quality being only one, and possibly a minor one at that.

    A very important point is that "quality" of a product is not defined by the producer but by the consommator.

    This also means that what one consumer is ready to pay 100 euros for, another won't buy it for more than 80, and others not at all (latest edition of Italian-Spanish dictionary f.ex.)

    What happened with Beta/VHS was that the VHS specs were made available to various constructors who competed between themselves to produce cheaper units.

    Cheaper price was simply "higher quality" factor to consumers that beeing able to record on both sides of the casette. (and other features).

    It is therefore just silly to say that "Quality" is a minor factor in a product's success. (Unless some monopoly company had f.ex. made deals to pre-install a VHS unit in all televisions manufactured)

    --
    echo '[q]sa[ln0=aln80~Psnlbx]16isb572CCB9AE9DB03273snlbxq' |dc
  38. You sure about that? by forty_two · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Let's take a simple example: digital audio tape (Dat). Get someone to compare Dat with a humble C90 compact cassette and they will find Dat to be technologically superior, especially for recording music. However, if you consider "the whole product", Dat is vastly inferior for most people most of the time. This is why people still buy millions of cassettes, while Dat has virtually disappeared from consumer use.

    Er...I thought the RIAA effectively taxed DAT out of the reach of consumers? Dat is only inferior because it's so damn expensive.

  39. VHS better than DVD by primus_sucks · · Score: 3, Insightful

    VHS tapes don't get scratched and skip like DVD's. You can fast forward through copyright notices at will.

  40. V2000 by grundie · · Score: 4, Interesting

    To hell with Betamax and VHS. Philips V2000 format was better than the both of them. It had double sided tapes, supeior picture quality, embedded timecode and really long tapes. It was years ahead of both Betamax and VHS. I'm surprised the author of the article didn't llok in to V2000 as it was quite popular in Britain for a while, before losing the marketing battle.

    As to the comparisons between VHS and Beta, I think the author makes a big blunder about VHS's success. I recall a TV interview with Alan Sugar, the founder of Amstrad which is a UK stack em high, sell em cheap electronics manufacturer. In the interview he said that his decision to make VHS machines in the early 80's was down to the fact that JVC offered him much more attractive licensing terms to use VHS as opposed to Sony who wanted twice as much for the Betamax system. Although market forces may have had an effect, surely VHS's success was more to do with the bigger profit margins it made for the manufacturers? Thus causing VHS to be promoted more at the expense of Betamax.

  41. So using this theory... by Delusion- · · Score: 5, Insightful

    ...the marketplace should never be open to formats which are almost direct replacements for previous formats.

    In 1973, when the Compact Disc was introduced, the "infrastructure of capabilities, services, and support" for analog audio cassettes - prerecorded and otherwise - was vastly superior to that of the audio cassette. The CD prevailed despite the fact that there was no ability to record - analog cassette recorders are now most often encountered as unused legacy devices on multi-function audio hardware.

    This "whole product" theory is an unenlightening justification for the emerging popularity of specific standards - it's the best product because it's the one most people buy? While there's truth to this, this fact is often less interesting than examining WHY this is the case.

    If the technical standards of Betamax were superior to VHS - and they were - it's more useful to examine why these did not produce the dominant product than it is just to hand-wave the issue by saying that the best product is that which everyone else ended up buying. Any discussion of VHS versus BetaMax that doesn't discuss the fact that Sony wouldn't license its format to adult video studios misses another important aspect of why formats emerge and gain dominance over existing formats - the 'killer ap'.

    The fact that he dismisses DAT audio with his "whole product" argument does not strengthen it in the least. The DAT cassette was a product the market was eager and ready for, and the more passive segment of the consumer base would have eventually caught up with the geeks, audiophiles, and techs. The RIAA crippled the format before it reached the consumer by disabling digital-to-digital copying, which given the dominance of the audio cassette DESPITE noted technical deficiencies (fragility, sound quality on normal-bias cassettes, less convenience for liner notes than vinyl), would have been an easy sell to a consumer base used to direct copying. Score one for the RIAA.

    Enter MP3s. I've argued that the MP3 format is the just revenge of the marketplace against the deliberate crippling of DAT audio by the RIAA. The MP3 format became popular for technical reasons and became ubiquitous because the "whole product" was exactly what the marketplace had wanted and needed ever since the pre-recorded music industry moved to a read-only CD format - a high fidelity means of audio dubbing free from the limitations and physical fragility of analog cassettes. Had the RIAA had computer audio formats on its radar before it became a consumer reality, have no doubt that it, too, would have been a great idea that never made it to the broader marketplace.

    The argument isn't, and never has been that BetaMax was the "better" format or that it was more suitable for the marketplace - the argument is that, based on wholly technical anaysis, it delivered a better performance than VHS. The VHS standard won out because RCA didn't keep their product a proprietary standard subject to its licensing regieme, because of porn as the 'killer ap' among early VHS adopters, because it was a cheaper product to adopt for end-users as well as studios (related to the license issue), and because as more manufacturers developed for what was effectively an open standard, they developed features to get their products noticed which in many cases became standards - multiple recording speeds, for instance. There's no reason why, if the BetaMax standard were open, a savvy competetor in the market could have developed multiple recording speeds. Sony felt it had a say in this matter, RCA didn't.

    While the "whole product" isn't a completely invalid method of analyzing competing formats, it is as narrow a look at a larger issue as solely focusing on the technical specs, and is particularly poorly-suited toward determining why a particular format bucks the trend of the status quo and gains market dominance.

    If "whole product" were the whole story, we'd probably have never gotten to VHS or BetaMax, and Laser Disc and DVD would have been relegated to a curious historical diversion like the Ford Edsel, 3D cinema, or - more to the point - the DIVX DVD format... ...and the BBS versus MiniTEL.

  42. Unmentionable history by neongenesis · · Score: 4, Interesting
    The basic premise of the article, that overall survival depends on more than technical merit is accurate. However, the author omits one important factor that is also seen in the internet of today.

    P0rn!

    Sony was hesitant to license, or make available, the format to major porn makers. VHS was chosen. The main initial market for those $1500 players and $100 tapes was that normal horney people could finally see adult content in the privacy of their own home. Go check out some of those 1979-1980 Penthouse magazines on eBay and look in the back at the first tape advertisements. All VHS!

    Those recording the history of the internet are hesitant to document the importance of adult content e.g. to developing secure credit card mechanisms. This was critical to the rise of the internet we know today.

    If one is to learn from history, the history must be available in a complete form.

  43. A little test by dachshund · · Score: 3, Insightful
    In other words, they expect the customer to change rather than the product.

    Try the following. Grab a computer and install a version of RedHat linux from 1999. Now install the latest version. You'll notice a phenomenal difference between the two products.

    The more recent version will have a simple, pretty graphical installer that recognizes just about any hardware and self-configures. It'll have a nice desktop interface that's clearly modeled after Windows/Macintosh. It'll have an office suite designed to be comfortable for someone who's used to MS Office. Almost all of the day-to-day configuration issues (think editing text files) from the 1999 version will have been moved into simple-to-use control panels accessable from the desktop.

    Sure, the current version isn't perfect, and it may not be enough to convince most users to switch. But to claim that Linux "expects the customer to change rather than the product" is to set up a strawman that has little to do with reality.

  44. Re:The only convincing bit was... (WRONG!) FF prob by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Interesting

    REWIND and FAST FORWARD were practically impossibly lagging tasks and that is why betamax died.

    Ask experts : Betamax audio head was TOO FAR APART from video head for efficient tape path!

    It was a mini form of UMAT 3/4 inch crap and unsuited for VIDEO CAMERAS and unsuited for user wanting to hit REWIND + STOP + PLAY + FAST FORWARD + STOP +PLAY.

    Why? Because the excessive disatnce between the linear audio head (used in prerecorded movies and part of standard) and the distance from the helical scanning head was WAY too far apart comapared to logical and efficient and non-retarded VHS. (Each ff or RW required tape path to be placed back into cassette for high speed motion, and threading took AGES in betamax crap).

    Nobody seems to remember this or know this.

    I and maybe a handful of other engineers seem to remember how painful it was to fast forward and rewind on ANY betamax deck.

    They all sucked.

    Them VHS got an exotic M-Format ultra hirez by running tape at 4x speed for pro highend cameras and then the betamax tape had no advantage. VHS at quad speed was unbeatable even if it only held 30 minutes.

    Eventually S-VHS came out, allowing 120 minutes at qualities exceeding betamax.

    But nobody remembers that Betamax sucked for fast forward and rewind and was unsuited for good hand held cameras all because of its asinine huge distance between audio head and helical hed.

    I bet, without even reading the article, that the author overlooked the truth and these facts.

    read and learn.

  45. I'll have to remember his name...what's his name? by webster · · Score: 3, Insightful

    This is a columnist I'll never have to read again. He's full of himself and full of shit.

    I have a large library of movies recorded onto Beta tapes. Entire movies. The idea that people bought VHS because they could record movies on them is patently ridiculous. He, himself notes that movies were first released on Beta - the format he then claims is too small to hold a movie.

    Everyone I knew who bought a VHS rather than a Beta machine, back when VHS was winning the marketing war, did so because you could program the VHS machine to record all your favorite programs for a week or two. At least, someone could, presumably. None of the folks I knew who chose VHS for that feature ever, ever used it. Most could never even figure out how to set the clock.

    VHS won that war because of better marketing. They came up with a feature with marginal utility (longer tape length) and convinced a whole lot of people that it was essential.

    --

    Information is not Knowledge
  46. Re:Recording times by tgibbs · · Score: 4, Insightful
    But while the movie-length tapes may have appeared before VHS had taken a lead, the fact that they weren't available from day one may well have encouraged manufacturers to opt for VHS: I would expect the time between the decision and the appearance of the machines in the shops to be at least 6 months, probably nearer 12.
    Beta and VHS were both available from multiple manufacturers. And virtually all movies were available in both formats throughout the Beta-VHS wars. I imagine that the vast majority of people who bought a VCR never knew that for a brief time beta tapes did not support movie-length recording at the highest speed.

    What really killed Beta was price. The cheapest machines available were always VHS. Sony knew that they had a superior product--they were consistently 6 months ahead of VHS is technical innovation--and they figured they could charge a bit more for their video recorders (and for third party licenses). After all, it was a pricing model that worked just fine for all of Sony's other products. And it made sense if you thought of the primary uses of a VCR as being time-shifting of TV and occasionally playing a purchased tape. What Sony didn't anticipate was that the major use of the VCR would turn out to be playing video rentals.

    Carrying two formats was expensive for video stores. And since the cheap VHS players were more popular, they stocked VHS tapes more heavily. Which was another reason, in addition to price, for consumers to buy VHS. Which encouraged rental shops to cut back still further on beta. By the time Sony got wise and cut prices drastically on their low end betas, it was too late for beta to recover.

  47. Acronyms Change With Time! by CharlieO · · Score: 4, Interesting

    There is a remarkable phenmenom with technical acronyms.

    Thier meaning shifts over time. Mainly this is because the technology they describe becomes successful and the meaning of the orginal expansion is no longer valid. However the acronym is firmly rooted almost like a brand name, so usually the expansion is changed.

    For instance VHS did originally expand to Vertical Helical Scan - which is a description of the way that the enigineering team solved how keep the tape speed over the head high without having to have the tape itself spooling at hig speed and therefor needing a huge amount of it.

    Later as it became popular and mass market the expansion changed to Video Home System as this was more understandable for the consumer.

    Video Home System (a less daunting rendering of the original acronym, which stood for Vertical Helical Scan)
    Reference : Baird to MPEG A History Of Video

    Look at the GSM mobile phone standard. Orignially this stood for Group Spécial Mobile - a special interest of the CEPT set up to develop one digital standard, based on the existing ISDN standard,for mobile phones in Europe to replace the mess of competing analogue ones.

    Nowadays, given the massive success of the standard the expansion is Global System for Mobile communications .

    DECT originally stood for Digital European Cordless Terminal . For the non Europeans its a standard for short range digital handset to base station communication for cordless phones. Being a standard you can now buy extra handsets from whoever you want, and things like wireless modems. As its success took off and it began to be used outside of Europe then the expansion changed to Digital Enhanced Cordless Terminal

    As mentioned elsewher in this thread DVD originally stood for Digital Video Disc but as it became apparent that a high capacity replacement for CD could have many uses it was renamed to Digital Versatile Disc with the convention that the specific use is tagged afterwards, hence DVD-Video, DVD-RAM, DVD-ROM, DVD-Audio The moral of the story is be careful what you state an acronym stands for - a whole load of them in daily use have stood for a number of things in thier history!!

    Oh, and yes I do currently work in the telecoms side of it, how did you guess??