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IBM Calls Linux "Logical Successor" To AIX
pknoll writes "Though it probably won't happen soon, IBM is talking about Linux eventually replacing AIX. The article at Globe Technology states there are IBM folks working on 'chips for 2007' systems, and the viewpoint projected is described as 'multidecade,' but it's an interesting view into the future of IBM and Linux."
I was writing a post on the slashdot, and Michael was like BLEEP BLEEP BLEEP BLEEP BLEEP BLEEP BLEEP,
and then like half of my post was censored.
And I was like "huh?".
He bitchslapped my posting.
It was a really good troll.
And then I had to post it again and I had to do it fast so it wasn't as good.
It's kind of a.... bummer.
I'm j0nkatz and I'm a slashdot troll.
Don't mod me, bro'!!!!
If Linux support tools evolve to the level of SMIT and other such AIX things, then I can see this happening.
Blar.
"Those who do not understand Unix are condemned to reinvent it, poorly".
I forget who said it, but it's just how I see both Linux and AIX.
Now watch me get modded down for having an opinion that doesn't jive with the party-line.
Are you kidding? What are those commercials about linux on TV then?
I think you are badly mistaken about the role that IBM wants to take with Linux. They aren't interested in putting Linux on the desktop for the same reasons they never put AIX on the desktop. For them (and for most people) its a server OS.
I agree it would be nice for them to push it on the desktop as well, but saying they don't support it just because that isn't the role they are taking with it is irresponsible.
The Anti-Blog
Considering IBM were one of the companies who helped splinter Unix in the first place is it a good idea to pin the future of linux on them.
Also dont they have a mjority stakholding in SuSE practically the only distrobution you cant download iso for?
They have their own tools but all of a sudden, Linux comes along. Because most middle-management add it to their dictionary of buzzword compliance, IBM simply replaces their existing tools with Linux. Their prices don't change and, all-of-a-sudden, IBM becomes synonymous with buzzword compliancy. And they get to milk developers who work for free!
Life is the leading cause of death in America.
'cause AIX is actually pretty damn good. It may not have the rampant 'coolness' of Linux with all its little gadgets and what not, but it's a rock solid stable system with many advanced 'enterprise level' features.
In most of the ways that matter, AIX is well ahead of Linux. Seriously, Linux has some catching up to do if it to replace AIX.
now where is that friend of mine who swore up and down that IBM would never ever ever drop AIX(i dont mean totally, i mean as the primary OS) and also insisted that AIX was the best selling commercial unix in the world.
I think the only things holding back Linux from replacing AIX are:
I installed Linux on an IBM eServe recently and it took to it really well, although I did have to use the "vanilla" install option of the Debian netinst to get it to use the ServeRAID card.
unixkb.com -- articles on practical Unix issues.
These are the guys that promised us OS/2
and Tagilent Pink as the replacements for the
state of market operating system of the the time.
Linux will surely replace Solaris, HP/UX, SCO,
etc. The question is, can it displace Windows
on the desktop. Good news, I just got my
boss to try Redhat today (borrowed my laptop) and
I'm getting rave reviews. This is the PHB + rave
reviews !!!! So maybe we're reaching critical
mass here !!! C'mon Apple heads, join the
revloution. We need you.
I also believe that IBM is behind Linux, but not just as a server OS.
We all know that mainframes are getting smaller and smaller, it's just a matter of a few years before they end up being the size of laptops... Linux is a very logical step for a small desktop "mainframe" and/or server. Using Linux as the OS on both would just make connectivity and streamlined installs and upgrades that much easier since all would work using the same OS.
-Cnik
great, another distro. I think IBM just has to continue making
I bet a large number of AIX admins on various POWER boxen, after having shelled out untold $COINAGE on their systems are simply thrilled by this... after they picked themselves up off the floor laughing.
IBM is doing a decent contribution to Linux with various contributions such as JFS and its people involved with various SMP, VM & filesystem projects. But to state something like this right now.. well, it sure would make me question any future investment in AIX-related systems and software, wouldn't it? After all, a server-room Unix system isn't your typical purchase of 'buy for 3 years useful life...' (at least not when I spec'ed boxen..)
-'fester
Yeah - how are we supposed to know what to think? Aren't we supposed to be using /. to do all of our thinking for us?
What about the IBM Linux Technology Center.
What about the many, many people IBM donates to work on strategic open source initiatives.
What about nearly every IBM application running on Linux.
What about nearly every piece of IBM hardware running linux.
What about billions of dollars of services contracts to push the kernel's and distributions's limits, as well as keep places like Red Hat and SuSE alive with big fat checks from service contract customers buying their wares.
And what about the fact that just by saying 'linux is the future' IBM is making linux the future in the minds of a lot of people.
What did you eat today? http://www.atetoday.com/
Is this just for the server side? Or will IBM be distributing this on PCs also?
Oh, I'm sorry, IBM doesn't distribute PCs, only laptops.
On the server side, there should only be a quick rewrite of the kernel to allow for the hardware in question. However, rewriting the kernel, means that it won't be Linux any longer, but merely a GNU compliant list of applications to run on an OS that strongly resembles linux.
Unix so 0wnz this situation, because the hardware is more toward the mainframe situation.
On the thinkpad and other IBM attrocities, I have only this to say. If it were on a UPS it wouldn't have a battery issue, but then, were I on a UPS I wouldn't have a battery issue either.
LW
-LoneWolf-
It is by will alone I set my mind in motion.
250 people IBM employs to improve Linux at its Linux Technology Center.
This seems like pretty good support to me.
IBM needs to use all the programmers who formerly worked on OS2/AIX to make a user friendly Linux distro
Why should they do this? They make money from selling Linux servers and supporting them. Anyway, IMO Linux is already user freindly.
...they both end with X after all.
Why was UNIX named "UNIX"? Why do all the subsequent clones have *IX in their names? Is LINUX = Linus + uNIX ?
IBM has a nasty habit of using their massive budget to hire lawyers to slap patent infringments on any one who doesn't let them get their way. What's to keep them from slapping Linus himself with a subpoenia when he refuses to accept faulty kernel patches from IBM? They know the suits are BS and apparently readily admit it, but few other companies have the capacity to compete with multiple infringment suits each being backed by a near limitless budget. For each one, it's a lose-loser situation. If you win, you spent a crapload to do so. If you lose, you lose bigtime.
Can you think of anyone else who uses this tactic? Sure, I knew ya could.
Everyone is entitled to their own opinion. It's just that yours is stupid.
10 years ago... people would ask
5 years ago
2-3 years ago
NOW :- We want to use linux, to reduce our IT budget cost . Also we are fed up with the security issues with M$ products and the licnesing costs are killing us. Plus we have heard that linux is an excellent replacement for legacy *inxs.
Although IBM may not have contributed directly to kernel code, they are doing a lot to improve LINUX's image in the mindset of MANAGERS of IT Project,
As they say, Win the MANAGER and the staff will follow.
for the last time people, I am "frodo from middle eaRTH", not "middle eaST".
Who do you think Linux has been taking market share away from? It hasn't been Windows as much as the hard core *nix's. The problem is that it doesn't pay IBM or Sun or HP to maintain their own version of *nix if they aren't able to sell enough service contracts and generate enough money to keep the OS moving forward. Thus they die and move to using Linux where they don'thave to invest as much money into research and dev because much of that is done for free.
This is actually the rightful conclusion for *nix as all the splintering that happened is now going to un-happen and migrate to Linux.
Makes sense to me.
All the best,
--Bob
I'm going to try not to make this sound like a troll... but it's hard to be politically correct while looking a decade down the road....
Like IBM, SGI is also kinda-sorta planning on moving entirely to Linux in time. This makes me wonder what the long-term path is...
Once upon a time IBM and SGI were working with oldschool AT&T SysV Unix and BSD Unix, after years of tweaks, overhauls, and rewrites, each company ended up with their own distinct version of Unix. Obviously this won't happen immediately with Linux, but I would venture to guess that there will be significant forking over time. Right now SGI is using a slightly modified version of Red Hat 7.2 on their Altix machines (basicly Red Hat plus the patches from their "ProPack" overlay). As time goes on I would almost bet that the long term goals of IBM, SGI and others will not match up to those of RedHat and other distro builders. I have a feeling that, oh, maybe 10 years down the road each major big iron builder (IBM, HP, maybe SGI and Sun) will have their own distinct (and somewhat "weird") version of Linux.... and soon the term "Linux" will be as generic as "Unix".
This makes me wonder.... why bother with the Make-Work of moving to Linux in the first place? Why no keep working on the existing tuned kernels of AIX, IRIX, Tru64, etc?
IBM IS NOT IN THE LINUX DISTRO MARKET.
They are about embracing, and extending current technologies. This includes supporting Red Hat AND SUSE (heaven forbid they work with more than one linux distro)
And, for the UMPTEENTH time, IBM IS NOT OUT TO WIN LINUX ON THE DESKTOP. Last I checked, there aren't very many people out there running AIX on a Thinkpad, or a Desktop machine.
IBM is focused on the SERVER market with Linux, not the desktop market. There isn't a desktop market for linux at this time.
As a rock-in-roll Physicist once said, No matter where you go, there you are.
The article points out that AIX is handled by the Server group at IBM, not the software group. So while this Mills guy says exciting things, he isn't necessarily the guy to make that decision.
"Give a woman two glasses of wine and some pad thai, and they'll agree to just about anything." the Sports Guy
Will it be also forgotten?
It has many interesting features. Will IBM port them to Linux as it did with some of AIX ones (JFS is just one example)?
Less is more !
RH8 and Windows XP look the same to me.
Okay let's score 'em. Mozilla mail
is better than Outlook. Mozilla browser
is better than IE. Staroffice word
processer's retro feel is actually better
than Word's "does favors for your" feel.
Besides, I can always use Abiword.
Cygwin is getting better and usable but
native Linux bash kicks it's ass. Real player
and Winamp on Windows are better than XMMS and Real playeron Linux. Windows has WMV support, Linux doesn't. Excel on windows is better
than Gnumeric.
Looks pretty even to be, Jack. What's up?
Can you be more specific?
I work for a small company in Austin TX that ports software. We like to brag that we can port anything to anything, but in reality, all the work that I seem to be doing is porting from either Solaris or HP-UX to Linux. AIX takes a very close second to the targets that we are porting to. Of course, this is very biased, since we're an IBM business partner. :-) I'm sure there's ports going on somewhere to Solaris and HP-UX.
In all of the arrangements that I've been involved with IBM on, their people have been completely indifferent about porting to Linux in preference to AIX. They simply don't seem to care what the hardware is running, as long as the customer is buying shiny new IBM boxes.
Something interesting though - IBM's Visual Age for C++ compiler was a pain in the ass to figure out. There's a zillion command line switches, and getting the right ones set to build proper dynamic libraries took a bit of figuring out. gcc was much nicer in that regard. But, now that I've got them figured out, I really like IBM's compiler more than gcc 2.95. I haven't had the luck of using gcc 3.2.1 yet (third party libraries aren't typically built with it yet, and I use Debian at home) but I can't wait. That new gcc compiler will really be sweet.
If tits were wings it'd be flying around.
IBM Calls Spock to find out Linux "Logical Successor" To AIX
They aren't interested in putting Linux on the desktop for the same reasons they never put AIX on the desktop.
Crap. I better ditch my 400MHz Power3+ RS/6000 then. Since it's a server, I should certainly not be using it daily as my desktop. Damn shame to have the fast, pretty graphics card in it.
This isn't even a new thing.
It's pretty obvious why IBM are taking a serious look at changing over to a whole new kind of *nix. Simply compare the two. Before you read this article how many of you - and honestly, now - how many of you didn't know what AIX was? At least a couple, I can be sure. On the other hand, who reading Slashdot has never heard of Linux?
AIX is an obscure, nasty system that costs IBM money to maintain. Linux, if I remember my first foray into the operating system correctly, cost me naught but a handful of blank CDs and every other IRC monkey could give me free techsupport for it.
I rest my proverbial case.
Yeah. Balanced reporting is bad! I **never** want to see a pro-microsoft article.
If I have nothing to hide, don't search me
I've never thought that there was any mystery in IBM's interest in Linux. Their product line has no common OS. Linux turns the MVS, CMS, OS/400, AIX, Windows, etc., etc. etc., muddle of completely different operating systems for every flavor of hardware into something intelligible: We run linux top to bottom!!!
i le/368660.stm
It has added bonuses too:
It weakens Microsoft's operating systems monopoly
It gives IBM another crack at selling their apps on hardware MS would own if it ran Widows
It might even be payback for making IBM pay significantly higher royalties for Win95 than other large customers (as payback for OS/2 & Lotus Smartsuite). http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/the_company_f
Gives IBM a chance to sell system integration services and service contracts.
Provides programmers world-wide to contribute to IBM's success
Gives IBM a story that sounds similar to Sun's:
Sun: Complete binary compatibility from Desktop to Midframe.
IBM: You can run linux top to bottom
No, I don't think that there is any surprise in this at all.
At this point, this is probably just a statement about likely future direction, and as such it doesn't mean much, but in the long run I would expect that many of the AIX engineering and support people can be retargeted for Linux. AIX has a lot of support for things their customers really need, and it will take a while to move the important bits of this over to Linux. Probably, they will not OS all of this, but it may become available for purchase for other platforms. All of this is good for the industry.
... is my biggest fear. I've seen so many companies move from being Solaris/HP-UX shops to Linux.
A world in which UNIX is loses out, is a world that Microsoft would like very much. Fighting against UNIX vendors is much harder than fighting against Linux vendors, especially since the Linux companies wont have that kind of money (you can't charge for Linux boxen what you charge for a UNIX box) to fight back
Just my two cents...
Wine works quite well for a large number of applications and support is improving daily.
Chris
Not now. The Linux kernel, while improving, does not have the enterprise features needed by those who use AIX. That said, I do believe Linux can replace the AIX kernel. If and when it does, you still have to possibly port some of those tools. For example, AIX has some great commands (not just smit) that are very nice. Ones that come to mind are lsdev, lsfs, lsvg, lspv, the odm itself(not as bad as you think), lsattr and many others. Smit is a lifesaver when you just can't remember the commands to do a certain thing. Also, AIX's ability to expand filesystems on the fly, the LVM, HACMP, SP and other things are essential for AIX shops. The pSeries machines (otherwise known as RS/6000) are IBM's best selling servers. The Regatta (p690) is doing extremely well. Almost everyone I have come across who runs AIX (except us....we're cheap, er poor bastards!) has a p690. Also the Shark (Enterprise Storage System) is tremendous. In 2 racks you get redundant storage. One rack can die and the other takes over. Each side has it's own battery backup, plus there's 348 MB of Non Volitle storage. Also you can have 22 TB of SSA in that rack! All of that works because of the fine work IBM has done on AIX. Linux can replace it, but it will be a while! :)
Gorkman
Because AIX sucks.
The ODM is total crap.
II / \/ \ /__\
II \ / I I
II \ / I II
II \ / I II
II \/ / \
II \__/_/
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I don't think this change will be a huge leap. I think in the decade time-frame, the differences between the two operating systems could be so small that IBM wouldn't care, and Linux will become the "most popular" OS running on IBM hardware. IBM wants to sell hardware. If they can leverage an OS that costs them less, they will use it.
"Plus we have heard that linux is an excellent replacement for legacy *inxs."
I dunno, I think the first couple of INXS albums rock harder than any Linux distribution ever could.
That's where the Multi came from (well, actually multiplexed). This all came from the time when they thought there would be 3 computers in the country. One in LA, one in Chicago, and one in New York.
-- ac at work
Maybe IBM should buy whatever's left of Mandrake. Then IBM will clean up in the Linux world!
---
IMHO, of course.
May the SOURCE be with you.
You might have been fooled when you bought it, cause it seems that you got a workstation rather than a desktop...
Yes I know that the differences today are small, after the Intel processors getting faster and faster, but I do belive that there is some differences between my Ultra 10 and a high end Dell Pc. The Sun station is slower in speed but can do certain tasks better at the end of the day. Therefore I think that the different words for desktops and workstations still are valid.
Actually IBM did put AIX on the desktop in the form of RT-PC. In fact the AIX first appeared on the desktop before on a server,
IBM is doing fine selling server hardware (w/software). They never wanted to be in the OS business in the first place. First they gave the marked to Microsoft, then they figured it was a bad idea and tried to strike back with OS/2, but it didn't work out. They don't mind that they're not "in control" of Linux. They just don't want someone else to be either.
However, now that IBM is just "one of the crowd" selling PCs, I don't think you can expect the same support when it comes to the desktop. But everything that makes a good back-end server and server tools, goes a long way to make a good desktop too.
Kjella
Live today, because you never know what tomorrow brings
I can't believe nobody's recycled that joke yet on this thread...
Don't worry, you won't!
They are trying to make up for having all those ads by running all the negative stories. So for the upstream poster, the message they are sending you is: "Use Microsoft products, but be sure to tell everyone how much you them."
IBM needs to use all the programmers who formerly worked on OS2/AIX to make a user friendly Linux distro
The OS2 developers are just the people we need to make Linux a viable, successful alternative to Microsoft!
OK, I personally think the parent post should be modded as flame-bait, or a troll. But that's my opinion.
IBM has contributed a lot of resources (people and money) to the Linux cause. They've done research into putting Linux on small devices (such as those nifty watches), and on large mainframe-type systems. They've contributed code to many Linux-related Open Source projects, as well as to the Linux kernel itself.
Oh, and they even sell ThinkPad laptops pre-configured to run RedHat. Who else does that? Precious few hardware vendors, that's who.
Yep, smells like flame-bait to me.
Mod this up...funny.
It is not that the Linux you know now is going to replace AIX. The point is that IBM will invest to bring Linux up to the level of AIX over the years, and when Linux is as good as AIX at what AIX is good at, you will get a product like AIX but with the "coolness" of Linux.
IBM is merely reinforcing their already rock solid commitment.
Sdelat' Ameriku velikoy Snova!
Absolutely. I actually LIKE Notes. It's what LookOut should be but isn't. I use it at work. Maybe if there was a Linux client I could persuade someone to try out Linux as an alternative OS here. Then again, this is a big company and they LOVE Microsoft here.
"But you've already got a DVD. It lasts forever....In the digital world, we don't need back-ups..."
-- Jack Valenti
IBM E.O.L.'s a critical version of AIX,
;)
we buy the source!
(we did it with AIX 3.2.5, if they EOL we'll do it again).
In the future, I would want to not be isolated from my friends in the Space Station.
And the "$COINAGE" we shelled out for our POWER boxen... 6 of these machines, ranging from $12K uniprocessor machines to a $220K copper 64-bit 6-way cpu stonkin' machine with bottomless pit of an SSA raid array... was mostly only for the hardware itself. The "unlimited users" operating system license for AIX 5.1L for this box was only $850.00 of the purchase price and annual maintenance for the O/S which entitles us to all upgrades is about $250/yr. Chump change. IBM doesn't make money off the O/S at all, only charges a token amount when you buy the hardware.
If they'd hurry up and get the rest of the AIX-style LVM/VM/JFS integration done in Linux so I can dynamically grow my LV's and filesystems while mounted and running hot, then I'll have no reservations at all running Linux on this kind of hardware. Also this may help alleviate the small number of shared memory segments limit that AIX has, and has been an achilles heel for those of us who run many multiple instances of Oracle on one box.
A: not microsoft.
I've done a fair amount of porting stuff to/from Linux, Solaris and AIX myself, and mostly found that a typical SolarisLinux port consists mostly of plopping the sourcecode from one machine onto the other machine and simply compiling it. Maybe changing a few small details in the makefile, but that's it. I agree with you about AIX, sometimes it is a little strange, but after you get used to the quirks and complexities of Visual Age, you see how really powerful and flexible it can be. I actually prefer to port and run stuff on AIX nowadays. Especially now that AIX 5.1L has so much Linux "affinity" built in, that porting AIXLinux both ways is almost childs play.
"Why no keep working on the existing tuned kernels of AIX, IRIX, Tru64, etc?"
Well, why don't IBM and SGI just stick with their old 'nixes then? If you fork Linux, you go into a full loop and have the same type of problems you had with old 'nixes. The beauty of Linux is not what it has become, but where it will always be going. Fork it, and you lose the most important "feature." I certainly think that each company will be using "niched" versions eventually (think, Debian vs. RH), but I really can't see why they would find it economical to fork from the main branch and return to the dark ages.
Linux provides an open standard that allows anyone (individual or corporation) to contribute to a standard without the fear that they will not be able to benefit from those contributions or, worse, have those contributions be used against them.
Maintaining an OS is becoming way too expensive, unless you have a near perfect monopoly and can control market prices. Smart companies will start to treat the OS as a "standard" (like HTML) and forget trying to control it. Instead, they will focus on building powerful applications to run on this "standard" OS, without fear that the owner will eventually decide to compete with those applications, leveraging their control of the standard, since there is no one owner in existence to control the OS.
It is my opinion that IBM is one of the smartest companies is existence these days. . .
Sdelat' Ameriku velikoy Snova!
Almost everyone I have come across who runs AIX (except us....we're cheap, er poor bastards!) has a p690
I guess I'm a poor bastard too. My employer could only afford to buy me a p660 6M1 with quad 750MHz copper processors and 4GB memory, and 180GB SSA array. Still, I'm very grateful to have this machine. It is certainly one stonkin' piece of hardware.
Linux still lacks the scalability that AIX, Solaris, HP-UX, and UNICOS/mk have. This is improving, especially thanks to IBM, but it is still a weak point for both Windows and Linux. This is one thing that is necessary for Linux to really compete with AIX, etc. on the high-end servers. And it is getting there.
BTW, this is one aspect of its datacenter problems-- if I want to do engineering, I can put together a beowulf cluster, but a PVM-based RBDMS sounds scary to me if I want to maintain my data integrity.
LedgerSMB: Open source Accounting/ERP
As we move forward, there will be variants of the common OS code base for different platforms and applications and, certainly, more applications and GUI's than you can shake a stick at, but the OS qua OS is pretty much finished. This is actually a good thing. It will lead to a stable platform for development of applications while freeing up OS kernel folks to actually do something new and different.
That is all.
Compare this move to Microsoft's pay. IBM has them beat by a mile. MS still has to pay its employees but IBM can can AIX and its drain on financial resources and hop on the free-labor linux bandwagon and SAVE A HEAP OF DOUGH! IBM sells hardware and if they can give away the OS that others have sweated blood and tears over, the will, along with the service of keeping it running. Free beer is great, especially if the other guy is paying.
You write -
"Linux gets it's name"
This is wrong.
The word "it's" is the contracted form of the words "it" and "is" or of the words "it" and "has".
The possessive form of the word "it", which it is clear you are using from the context in which you use it, is "its". Since you are striving to arrive at the truth you might as well follow the rules of grammar and syntax.
i386 Release: 2002-10-15
SuSE - SuSE live-eval 8.1 645MB
I assume the parent to your comment meant download in a useable free form.
perl -e 'print $i=pack(c5, (41*2), sqrt(7056), (unpack(c,H)-2), oct(115), 10)'
Better if you start using IBM C/C++ compiler. I have both on my machine and IBM C generates code that is 20-30% faster on CPU intensive tasks.
Um...we'd need a way to replace every bit of running code without shutting down the kernel.
Unless you're running multiple copies of the kernel, like that nice mainframe article a while back described, you're going to have to take the system down at some point.
Of course, such distributed systems needn't strictly be on one piece of machinery, as OpenMOSIX, beowulf stuffs, and the xxx@Home projects have shown.
In short, we're already there. We've got the concepts down, and most of the code.
What's this Submit thingy do?
I have been using AIX since 1994, Linux since 1995, Windows NT/2000 since 1995, some Solaris/HP-UX/OpenVMS over the years.
AIX is far better than the other ones:
- AIX plug and play works and works well since 1994 (cfgmgr)
- AIX LVM is far better than anything else: you can add/remove/move/defrag/expand/mirror/unmirror disks/files systems/logical volumes on the fly, without reboot. No, is not hardware RAID, is LVM. You can replace your (mirrored) boot disk without stopping a single application. Several times I had a full file systems and stopped applications, I expand the FS and the application continues.
- most microcodes ("BIOS update" or firmware update on PC world) updates can be done without a reboot.
- smit is the text/graphical cfg tool. You can do almost any cfg task using smit.
- AIX is very stable, the last non-hardware relate crash that I have was on 1996. Tipically my machine runs a year before I need a reboot for some reason.
It will be a hard time for IBM trying to sell Linux to AIX customers, I don't think that that they will give up AIX so easily.
in big iron the os does not matter as long as it is reliable, the free unixes do that, and it is other programs that are important and hardware features. The unix venders realize that the money is in the hardware, the features they can add, and additional software to do things, the OS is essentially a loss, they have the same features and it does not give competative advantage. It is a burden on the companies that make it and they pay licensing fees on it. Hell why not use a free os, add all the nifty features and optimize it for your hardware. They save money and battle over the hardware. IBM especially has a big name and can use it to get a premium on intel systems. I know that when I design a network people these businesses have always owned small IBM mainframes and generally prefer IBM, or HP over dell or some other whitebox. IBM is known for reliability and therefore can command a premium. Pushing linux financially makes sence because not only do they get a hardware sell but also a software sell. Also from the looks of it the IBM pSeries Power4 based systems are so good that they sell them selves.
but I do belive that there is some differences between my Ultra 10 and a high end Dell Pc
Yes, the Dell is probably 20% of the cost of the Ultra 10, and around 10 times faster.
Thank you.
Linux has set back the state of computing by 10 years and this only makes it worse. FreeBSD and AIX are already way more advanced than linux and there is not no reason to invest many more man years trying to make linux as robust. How many times are we going to rewrite the vm or the filesytem before we become as good as FreeBSD already is today??
Customers have a finite amount of money they can spend on applications, hardware, operating systems, storage and the other components of their computing infrastructure, Mr. Mills explained. "Reducing the cost of the operating system allows them to spend more money elsewhere," he said.
I think this is the crucial part of this article, and the crucial point that most Linux-embracing companies are running with. With Microsoft, the money goes Microsoft and Intel/AMD. MS OSes only run on Intel/AMD hardware. Microsoft's apps only run on Microsoft OSes. Basically, IBM and Sun and the rest are getting bugger all money from this entire market segment, and widespread acceptence of Linux might change all that.
If Linux gets big, these guys are back in the game, getting a slice of everyone's cash. They can sell hardware that runs Linux, and their apps can run on a platform not controlled by Microsoft. And, since Linux runs on everything from a watch to a toaster to a PC to bigass servers, their apps have the potential to be just about anywhere. That's a future IBM would love to come true.
I've worked with a bunch of IBM and Lotus guys and gals, and daaaaammmmnnnn do they hate Microsoft. They'd put Redmond to the torch if they thought it would get them back in the game. I don't honestly think they'd smoke AIX to make Linux succeed, but they definitely see it is a brighter future.
You know, I love LINUX as much as the next guy.
What I cannot understand is why a company like IBM, that has invested millions of $ and hundreds of thousands of man hours developing a rock solid, mature, scalable, enterprise class system like AIX with a _relatively_ immature OS like LINUX.
I mean, to bring LINUX up to AIX's level of functionality will require that IBM re-implement, and retest all that code. It's almost like starting over from scratch.
I mean, AIX does do everything LINUX does right? Am I missing something?
Why bother?
As a developer, I think that it makes sense to extend already existing stable systems for new needs, where it makes sense.
If IBM needs their OS to do something special, wouldn't they spend less time buidling an extension or an emulation layer then rewriting most of the OS itself?
Sorry guys, I just don't get it. I want to see LINUX succeed and get more market share. Yet I can't understand what IBM is trying to gain here.
Huh?
...anymore?
Dolemite
Save the World! Use a Quote!
I do not know if anyone noticed, but IBM has released WebSphere Application Server 4.0.2 for PPC Linux.
r ec onfig.jsp?id=2003-01-29+11%3A55%3A10.304488R&cat=& fam=&s=p&S_TACT=&S_CMP=
http://www14.software.ibm.com/webapp/download/p
What AIX lacks is the huge wealth of packages for everything; the bizzilion packages that exist on Linux. Lots of stuff hasn't been ported to AIX and IBM doesn't want to port it. More importantly they don't want to have to re-port it every 1-2 years. Without that wealth of software NT offers a compelling advantage for individual customers. Where is AIX's really good bibliography integration with word processing? Without that it is worthless to my wife. Where is AIX's really good diagraming tool? Without that its no good for me. Where is AIX radiology package? Without that its no good for my dad.
You get the picture. More importantly there are cool features to the kernel that IBM hasn't worked on. Take the XFS filesystem. AIX isn't known for its great multi-media support and nobody at IBM has really considered the issue of how you move gigabyte sized files quickly through the system. SGI on the other hand has worked a great deal on that issue. On the other hand nobody at SGI has worked on the issue of managing the greatest number of boxes with very untrained system administrators.
IBM itself cannot compete with Microsoft. IBM + SGI + german government + FSF + KDE group +... can compete with Microsoft.
Frankly I think they should open source as much of AIX as they can today and get the community to help them port things their management tools ASAP.
Holy fucking shit you are right. Most of them don't pay their phone bills anyways, so in a few months this shouldn't be a problem.
Bill Gates has thought long and hard about how market leaders fail. He distributes this book to executives at Microsoft which addresses this very issue. Unix is compitition; Linux and especially GPL is a disruptive innovation. Those are much more threatening to an established market leader. Microsoft (rightly IMHO) believes it can beat most software companies. Can it beat an entire different philosophy of software innovation? That's a much harder question. They have already seen Linux take valuable markets away from them. They are already watching themselves partially "retreat upmarket".
I suggest you read the book to understand why Microsoft is so worried (besides the fact its an excellent book).
I'm glad to hear that I can press the "up arrow" key and reach my old commands in an IBM Unix-like OS.
Well, the Sun Blade 150 which much better than the Ultra 10 start at $1400. I don't think that you get a *High end* Dell for $300... I don't think that the P4 are running 5Ghz on 64bit yet either...
:)Bror
Concernig the speed, I totally agree that hte P4 is much faster though. Problem is that when you are doing a lot of data mangling, speed isn't everything. We are working with big numerical models and many tasks benefit tremendously of a 64bit architecture. The system is also well tuned to work with large files and it is very to set up MPI clusters. The system also works with memory demanding processes very gracefully.
I use to compare a fast P4 with a porsche and a Sun workstation with a 18 wheeler. The P4 is very fast and really good in doing many things. I do prefer the workstation when I'm working with huge loads of data though.
Maybe not customers per se (or not intentionaly) but competitors can, if they will be able to purchase some iron with those patches associated.
So if say SGI purchases IBS's newest server, they can demand those patches (if they are not alredy included with the server) and then include them in "SGI" Linux.
:)
hany
So, what it sounds like is they really are trying to commercialize Linux and kill the two only good distros out there, Debian and Slackware? Where's the donations?
Money comes to money.
- Voice of Ambience -
- Voice of Ambience -
That would shake some things up.. AIX is ahead of Linux in many ways that are important to IBM. But IBM wants to be able to leverage open source developers and to offer the 'most commonly used' unix that will have the most people who are familiar with it. Instead of using linux and paying their coders to bring it up to IBM standards, why not release AIX under GPL and let the free software world port it to all sorts of platforms. That would truely leverage open source developers to make AIX the most widely used unix. As it is, Linux is getting scalability at IBM's expense and while IBM gets to use Linux, they already had AIX so they don't really gain anything they didn't have already.
Eat at Joe's.
Dude I used AIX for 2 years and the documentation sucked. I've used Linux ever since and the documentation is great.
Eat at Joe's.
Just had to comment this due to all the strange assumptions/misconceptions made about IBM (and used as arguments which thus fail...).
And also a great excuse to post my first slashdot reply....
Fact 1!
IBM had a revenue of $81.2B in 2002, making $1.5B on Linux not that much money (but still money in a slugish market...)
Fact 2!
the revenue - margin - profit was divided as follows:
Services - $36.4B - 26.3% - $9,6B
Hardware - $27.5B - 27.1% - $7.5B
Software - $13.1B - 84.4% - $11.1B
Other - $4.3B - 52.7% - $2.3B
So saying that IBM is a hardware/software/services company is all wrong.
They are all of that, an IT *SOLUTIONS* Provider. Granted the strategy lately has been focus on services (and ~160k of the ~300k employees are in the services division).
Fact 3!
They spent a great deal of time/money on OpenSource/OpenStandards contributions, last number I heard was 2-300 fulltime developers and about 1500 with the "part timers", mostly working with Apache, Linux, Eclipse, Java and W3C. And also important, IBM spends $5B a year in *basic* research alone, the same amount as the 10 next big spenders (also won the most approved patents 10 last years) which drives the whole IT business forwards, like them or not.
Fact 4!
The so called big battle for the desktop is a battle for $28.4B with $11.9B which is M$ numbers for 2002 (I know this number is "wrong" as it doesn't acount for M$ server software (pulling down) and Other desktop OSes (pulling up) but still...)
or 35% of IBMs revenue (now add the revenue of Sun/HP/Dell/Oracle/Sybase/CA etc. and work out the Desktop to IT market percentage...).
Linux is more important in fighting M$ in the low range server market than the desktop market $-wise.
Fact 5.
They have anounced their on-Demand strategy ($10B/5year effort) where Linux is one of the four pilars to make it happen
GridComputing - AutonomicComputing - "OpenStandards/OpenSource" (Linux/ip/http/webservices/xml/java...) - Integration
So Linux is important in a number of ways to IBM.
Fact 6.
Yes, IBM is listed on the NYSE so their out to make money......
Not a fact but...:
Yes. IBM is embracing Linux (for good and bad?) because it's important in a number of ways to them, desktop wars not beeing top of the list, most listed in the other posts though. And Yes IBM has a record of not dropping OSes quickly so AIX will not disapear quickly, but given the onDemand strategy it might in time, they all might in time?
Fun fact:
You can run a Linux compiled application directly on AIX through linux compatibility support (don't know how good it is though.
Cheers Jasse "It's all a bunch of treehuging hippie crap" - E.Cartman
Note that far the most contribution to the Linux kernel come from developers who are *not* working for free, but for various companies such as Red Hat, SGI, SUSE, etc.
In some ways, Linux and the GPL provide the Unix companies with what Unix International and OSF failed to crate, a platform where the various Unix vendors all share improvements.
Of course, some companies share more than others. IBM is one of those companies that contribute the most
Yogi Berra couldn't have said it any better, even if he were doing an Aflac commercial. ("If you can't work, it pays you cash, which is just as good as Money.")
For those that would die defending it, Freedom
has a sweet taste that the protected will never know.
I like Notes the way it's being used here...primarily for inter-office, intranet use. As far as a POP/SMTP client goes, I would rather be using Kmail (KmailCool looks very interesting) or Eudora. You don't use a screwdriver as the tool of choice to hammer a nail. Notes is not the proper tool for email, it's the proper tool for internal communications in a big company.
"But you've already got a DVD. It lasts forever....In the digital world, we don't need back-ups..."
-- Jack Valenti
Seems a computer engineer, a systems analyst, and a programmer were
driving down a mountain when the brakes gave out. They screamed down the
mountain, gaining speed, but finally managed to grind to a halt, more by
luck than anything else, just inches from a thousand foot drop to jagged
rocks. They all got out of the car:
The computer engineer said, "I think I can fix it."
The systems analyst said, "No, no, I think we should take it
into town and have a specialist look at it."
The programmer said, "OK, but first I think we should get back
in and see if it does it again."
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