Slashdot Mirror
Mid-Air Messages To Your Mobile
wilfie writes "Mid-air messages are content for delivery to handheld devices which is relevant to the user's current location. A serious trial of a system for delivering mid-air messages is to be financed by the UK government in the City of Bristol, according to an
article on the BBC website. The article refers to the Annotate Space project doing something similar in New York. The Bristol scheme looks like being a guide for tourists, but what other kinds of content would we welcome, and what would we not? Would we even be willing to pay for it?"
I'm walking in a park when all of a sudden my cell phone catches a distress beacon...
Good quote, too many chars. Seriously, the slashdot 120 char limit sucks!
no, i didn't read the article, but it conjures up images in my mind something to the effect of "EXIT NOW!!! Some really great thing that will enlarge your penis and automatically file your taxes for you is here for you to purchase!" (which is of course, presented in annoying flash)
track7.org has all kinds of interesting stuff!
Is a bombardment of advertisements as you pass by McDonalds, Walmart, etc. I seem to recall reading about bilboard signs that beam you more advertisement related information such as the contact numbers/address/directions of the place being advertised.
Random is the New Order.
/. proves this is a bad idea.
...in certain situations but not in general.
The meme police, They live inside of my head
You have 45677987 new messages
Is a bunch of dogooders putting anti-smoking bubbles near stores, anti-meat bubbles near markets, anti-fur near malls, add to infinity.
Neck_of_the_Woods
#/usr/local/surf/glassy/overhead
with most US carriers still charging upwards of ten cents per message, i can see this going over reeeeeal well. i know i'd just *love* to rack up my phone bill just for being near some shop that wants to advertise.
I, for one, would like to know when I'm close to some place that I can buy an X10 camera.
I'm walking in the park, when, all of a sudden, I get a distress beacon on my cell...
Good quote, too many chars. Seriously, the slashdot 120 char limit sucks!
fp
Imagine every single fast food restaurant broadcasting ads out to anyone who happens to walk past their fron door. Yeah, that'll be great.
Nortel developed this technology several years ago. Though I have never before seen it under the moniker "Mid-Air messaging", the concept is still the same. We will all rue the day that they developed this technology.
I can see a system like this turning into location specific Spam.
Just imagine: you're walking down the street, when your handheld beeps to inform you that the local drug store is having a sale on panty liners (or condoms, or whatever). Now, if you're male, you might be a bit irked by this. Or what about the local porn shop having a sale on goatse.cx?
A system like that would make me get rid of any hand held I had, and I definately wouldn't pay for it.
Ed Wedig
Graphic design services
docbrown.net
h2g2.com anyone? Although I assume these "mid-air" messages and the research behind them are motivated by ad revenue (mid-air location specific spam, I shudder at the thought) I would like to think that the location specific messages will actually be helpful ala hitchhikers guide.
Here's to a new promising technology that will hopefully avoid the pitfalls of spam (ha!)
remembering Douglas Adams
How about "Mid-air messages are content for delivery to handheld devices which is relevant to the user's current" conversation.
I can see where this can be handy for advertising.
Because of TIA and other information hoarding
initiatives, the merchants know what you like
and don't like.
For example, I run an on line fetish wear business.
I contract with bars in the seedier areas of town
to host one of these transmitters on their premises.
I do the same with the adult theatres and porno
shops.
As you walk past, or into, these businesses,
and I know (via TIA or other info hoarding
schemes) that you like fetish clothing, I can
beam messages to your palmtop about sales of
certain items (that I can customize for you).
Since you are in the mood (being in the seedy
area) this might be just enough to tip you
over to making a purchase.
Mark
Cleara
Just think of the size of the market for something truly useful rather than somebody trying to sell gadgets/methodolgies that serve only to annoy and harrass those of us who just prefer to be left alone.
---- Go ahead, mod me down, I'll just post it again and you lose your mod points.
Be at this street corner between 10 and 11pm. Major credit cards accepted.
A big issue to doing something like this, which was pointed out to me by some researchers in a company I interned for, pertained to the amount of information about you that is required for such a system to function but still maintain your privacy.
For example, a mid-air system that delivers messages to you while you're in a certain area can also figure out where you are at what time on what day, simply by aggregating this information in one place. The researchers that I talked to worked around this (they were using GPS) by making the exact co-ordinates fuzzy and increasing the resolution from a few meters to a few miles. Thus you can't exactly tell where a person was at a certain time.
However, in the article, the researchers are using bluetooth, which doesn't leave out much in the way of destroying location information. Which consequently means that the Government, or any company with enough money could come in, aggregate this information and track the devices that are mid-air message enabled. (and if we assume that people aren't going to be swapping cell phones every few minutes, then we can track the people themselves)
what other kinds of content would we welcome, and what would we not?
Depending on how you look at it:
To:Osama bin Laden
From: USAF
HAHAHAHAHAHA!
"What if we could put information in places? What if we could associate relevant information with a place and perceive the information as if it were really there?"
Cheers,
Joel
I've actually been talking about this sort of thing with friends for years --
some radar detectors claim they can alert you to 'emergency' vehicles (trains crossing, ambulances, some even claim school buses). I have yet to see one work, but I would love if they did, especially with today's cars, if you have your windows up, you can barely hear a siren...and if your stereo's on, there's no chance in hell.
It'd also be great for alerting that there's construction ahead, or an exit's closed, etc.
I would prefer that this band be liscensed for specific services, or that everyone be required to send some sort of a signature that we could block on, or even a 'type' so we could single out restaurants, tourism, etc.
Build it, and they will come^Hplain.
Bacon in distress. Mmmmmm.
Perfect if there is some kind of global variable in the device, which you can set: Hungry=1
Then that bacon won't be in distress before I eat it.....
Irene KHAAAAAAN!
Of course, the main one is what the article mentioned...reviews of different things. You could be in an unfamiliar city, walking through trying to find a good restaurant. In front of one, you bring up the service, and it tells you different things people posted ("Don't get the clam chowder!!! It's death in a bowl!", "The fries are great!").
Another thing would be interesting sites or things to look for. For example, you're drinking in an old bar, you bring up the service and can view different messages like "This bar caught fire in 1938. See the charred board behind the bar on the right-hand side? They left that as a reminder." or you're at a scenic turn-off in the mountains you might get "If you look to the north-west, you might be able to see the skyline of [insert city]."
Of course there's the whole advertising thing, but depending on how it's setup, it could be a good thing. Walk into a store, get virtual coupons or something.
Something else that could be kinda fun would be a graffiti board of some type...probably have numerous problems, but c'est la vie.
--mh
Mr. Anderton... the road you're on... is the one less travelled. Buy Lexus! Buy! Buy! Buy!
I don't think being I'm overly cynical in presuming that this has huge application as a new form of spam.
What would you be able to do to prevent this falling into your inbox once the technology becomes widespread? Your phone would beep once you walked past every starbucks.
I admit it's a cool idea (esp the H2G2-stylee aspect of it) but I wouldn't want it anywhere near me until the standards are out and I know I can stop the damned thing. AFAIK, current SMS protocol doesn't allow you to refuse messages.
Moderation Total: -1 Troll, +3 Goat
OMG! I just saw this same story at Slashdot.org!
Freaky.
Ok, for those not in the know, Slashdot.org is a news/technical
website geared for the more technically orientated of Internet users.
Although I'm a Mac user Slashdot.org is still a very interesting
site because although it has a strong basis towards the Linux Operating System it still
touches on many other subjects. Graphical design, the ongoing work at Disney, Pixar, the music
industry etc.
I would heartily recommend Slashdot.org to anyone who is
interested in the politics and comradely word games played out around the evolution of the tech
toys we all get to play with.
Gosh! I can't believe I saw this same story at Slashdot.org!
What a coincidence!
Ian.
Post a message in on a busy corner, and see how many people you can get to pull out their phone and see the message... "Made you look :p"
I'd be glad to ignore any localized ads if it subsudized my otherwise very expensive gadget. There's always a tradeoff, eh?
...you'll have to be careful where you walk and when you leave your phone on.
I just know a whole cadre of people out there will mine the world with mid-air goatse.cx pictures.
Hooker locations within a .25 mile radius with fees and STD exposure information.
Sex sells
An excellent point, really. If the manufacturers who make your phone are getting paid to send targetted advertising, prices could drop significantly- you may have to pay only for service, or only for the device, or neither.
-- 'The' Lord and Master Bitman On High, Master Of All
What do you mean you don't like spam? Look, we have Spam, eggs, sausage and Spam. Spam, Spam, Spam, Spam, baked beans, Spam, Spam amd Spam......
Senior Design project about three years ago.
Glad the project never went anywhere, as I would have been responsible for unleashing this evil on the world!
baked beans, Spam, Spam amd Spam..
AMD Spam? I thought those people concentrated on computer hardware enough to not buy it from Hormel Foods?
Man.
Look at this. More and more people have cell phones and rely on them like ground phones.
Now, when I buy a Toshiba DVD player a Bestbuy, I give what as an info when I'm asked for my informations for guarantee purpose ? My cell phone number. Then, using this, cross-referencing database, one can know what I buy most (am I an audiophile ? or a computer geek?). Then, I can get targeted spam on my mobile.
Laugh all you want, but it's getting to this. Saw the movie MINORITY REPORT, in which Tom Cruise gets some publicity depending on what he bought last week at a store via his retinal scan ? He gets in a boutique, then the hologram says "Hi, hope you're happy with the jeans you bought last week. Maybe you'd like to know green Gap sweaters are on sale this week !". We're not up to the retinal scan technology as a day-to-day method, but on mobiles? Why not... This is where we're getting, wether we like it or not.
there's service like this where I live. You can get location-specific spam, er, ads, but only for types of products you have indicated your interest in. You can get a message when your friend is near you (he will get one too). There's even a dating service.
I live in Bristol and from experience I know that a large number of visitors are either from mainland Europe, Japan or the USA, so from this perspective, it would be pretty daft if it used the visitor's own phone as a client device; how many of you take a tri-band mobile phone with you when you go on holiday?
So the system is reduced to one whereby your position triggers an event or data to be downloaded to your proprietary device. While it's being made out to be very 'wow!', I've been to many museums since the mid-1980's that use similar technology; Jorvik Viking centre, The Bayeux Tapestry etc. to tell you what you're looking at - sometimes in different languages.
In these respects, it looks like the same system but developed for places over a wider area. It'd be nice to see technology like this come to everyday devices, but I think that I'd expect success to come from Vodafone, Nokia or Orange, not HP - mobiles are much more prevalent over here than Bluetooth or WiFI devices.
As one commentor already pointed out, this would make me *drop* whatever service I already had if I couldn't disable such location-specific spam.
;-)
Did this really need asking? And on Slashdot? C'mon, you may as well ask if we would support Hillary Rosen for president (well, over Dubya, perhaps [G]).
The Slashdot crowd largely likes privacy, and *particularly* dislikes government or corporate sponsored intrusion on their personal space. Would we pay for this? We'd abuse the hell out of it to make it totally unuseable, more likely - I for one can think of a nice script to enumerate every single arcsecond on Earth, meaning every 101ft a person walks, they'd get another message saying "you are here".
I can understand using a related technology to answer questions like what is the closest restaurant or bus stop or which path I must take to reach some point.
But having a "graffiti wall" at every place could be seriusly misused... even if is easier to clean than the phisical ones. Maybe every note will be associated with the data/phone number/whatever of the one that wrote it, but that could have other problems (privacy, wanting to be an anonymous coward, whatever).
Imagine this. You're driving down the highway when your palm pilot beeps to alert you of a major accident up ahead, and suggests you take exit 91 to bypass the traffic.
That would be cool. Especially if you are driving in unfamiliar territory and don't know the local radio stations.
There was an excellent article on this same topic in Discover recently. The possibilities are nice... leaving "personal notes" for your friends at a specific spot in the world. I think the best quote from the article was this one: "When you can stand where others have stood and learn how it affected them, and then share your own impressions in return, public space becomes more deeply public than it was before." It reminds me of a nice book on Native American religious tradition by Vine Deloria, Jr. The idea of bringing technology back to the "primitive" notion of public spaces is appealing to the hippie inside me.
Also of note in the Discover article is a brief introduction to geo-caching. Unrelated, but sounds like fun. :)
--madgeorge
So, if they are doing this, that implies that they know who is where (not that it's that hard with our present phone system) but I just worry what may happen if the department of homeland security were to want to be able to tap into such information at any time. Not only does this sound annoying, but the possible police state implications are a great cause for concern.
....whether you would pay to be spammed, but rather would you pay NOT to be spammed.
.......
On the otherhand I can see the benifits of being paid to be spammed. And before anyone co-ops it
1. Buy Pager, cellphone, PDA etc.
2. Walk by Walcobiz
3. Get spammed
4. ??????
5. Profit.
Agent K: A *person* is smart. People are dumb, stupid, panicky animals, and you know it.
i prefer this to a retina scan in "minority report" the bilboard senses your cell phone getting close and pulls up an appropriet add.
also, this may help eliminate men seeing feminine higene adds
I think the safety applications are obvious. Small, low-range transmitters with canned messages could be attached to the bottoms of anvils, grand pianos, and those big Acme 10-ton weights. The beauty of this scheme is that it can provide timely warnings in areas with little to no cell coverage - the desert southwest of North America, for instance. The coyote populations there in particular would be able to immediately benefit.
Suggested messages would be things like "Anvil above you accelerating at 9.8m/s^2" or perhaps the more immanent "Don't look up - just run".
(In all seriousness, this could have been useful to cover areas of the Canadian rockies in recent weeks - it would make a good avalanche warning system, since we already have decent avalanche-spotting, but mainly lack rapid in-situ delivery of the info)
I was at Bristol late last year at an undergrad open day and they had a system very like this - they might have something to do with it. The user had a jacket with a GPS system so things like directions to the nearest station could be done with no location input from the user. The had a cool extra though, a sensor in the arm allowed the system to see where a user pointed. With the location info this could be translated to a landmark et cetera, and informtion on that could be sent to the user. I say it was a "demo" but more description than hardware.
...will we actually have the option to pay not to be spammed, for a reasonable amount?
InThane
At least in the UK. Police regularly ask operators to provide them with information about the whereabout of a cell phone at a particular time.
In a recent court case (in which an uncle kidnapped and murderd his niece) this information was used to get a conviction, as it destroyed the man's alibi. He had been sending text messages to himeself from the girl's mobile phone while she was supposedly missing, but the records proved that they were within the same base station cell at the time.
On a different note, I know that the location that you are in is also used in Germany for nicer reasons, as some operators will give you land-line prices on all the calls you make from your mobile phone while within a certain distance of your house. One way of avoiding extra telephone lines.
but...
If there was a standard for this such that message types could be discriminated to allow for filtering, it would be a great way for local governments to broadcast anything from tourist info, to traffic alerts, to even safety warnings. Since it would simply be data, it can also be easily formatted in a way usable to disabled persons(blind, deaf, Outlook user, etc). If it had directional info as well, it could even be used to replace and enhance crosswalk signs.
Hey, I bet you could even use something like this to coordinate mass population movements in evacuation scenarios. A central computer or even a distributed algorithm could instruct people to avoid choke points.
http://www.masturbateforpeace.com/
So I was driving through this shady neighborhood and my reciever started flashing red and asking me if I was looking for a good time...
Sigs? We don't need no stinking sigs!
A tourist guide for Bristol would be great.
A TXT message on your phone:
BZZT "Warning, you are now entering Hartcliffe, please now for your own safety"
BZZT "Warning, you are now entering Easton, please now for your own safety"
BZZT "Warning, you are now entering Barton Hill, please now for your own safety"
ETC
Karma: Shitty (mostly due to American moderators)
...but I have a sneaking suspicion that eventually I'll have to pay to avoid it.
So I'm just trying to figure this out - is this actually broadcasting a signal in a single area, or is the device using cell-network/GPS/whatever to figure out location? The idea of location-area tech has been around for a while. A lot of research has been done on this, like Cornell's Graffiti, ABTA, Intel, and somewherenear , but I haven't seen lot of practical application actually come out.
I ran across something new that does something like this that I have some hope for, called annotated earth. They appear to be in the initial stages still, but the way it works appears to be open (as in encouraging third party software - they seem to be the infrastructure and data for location-aware info). I especially like the Iraqi Weapons of mass destruction thing, good info to have if you're wandering around Iraqi, Hehe. Don't know if it's really going to work, still waiting on mobile devices that can use the technology they've done.
Anyway, I'll be interested in seeing how this goes.
=-H
Traditionally, companies have released products in two forms - a free, spammy version and a non-free, spamless version. Only in a couple cases have people been paid to be spammed, and I haven't seen too many of those companies still in business. Wasn't there a company named Cybergold a bit back that did that?
Lately, I've been seeing a movement away from the spam-free product in a lot of cases. Take, for instance, the movie industry. You pay to get in, and then you get spammed for 20 minutes before the film starts. I'm seeing a bit of this in the cell phone industry, as well - some SMS advertising has started creeping in lately, even though I pay for my phone and service.
The problem is, advertising is a value-added revenue stream for the manufacturer, who is always looking for some way to get the cost down a little bit more, underneath that of their competitors. Of course, it's just a pointless race to the bottom - ye olde Prisoner's Dilemma all over again - but advertising is slowly creeping into every facet of our lives, and I doubt we'll be compensated one cent for it, ever.
InThane
It would be really nice to see a user driven content base for something like this. I don't want to be solicited by the local resturant, porn store or hooker as is the case with rest of the internet. It would be nice to be able to get a warning about how assholes drive in this neighborhood, or if the cops are jerks here, but I don't need any more comercial ads.
How about user moderation akin to slashdot as well? Set my threshold where I want it and be able to ignore all the pricks who don't have anything real to say.
Aside from advertisement and user comments, this could be an opportunity for some fun outdoor-games.
Imagine a Matrix-like life action roleplaying game with 3 groups - agents, informants, freedom fighters.
Whom to trust, whom to talk to? Look at the messages other players left before. But can you trust them? Maybe they just manipulate you to buy their freedom or favors. Or it could be a trap for the agents...
You could play in a big city, using real places and all the time connecting to other players or at least their messages. A complex web of (mis-)information could make a very interesting "story matrix".
I would like to think that the user comments could be about something else than the quality of the food of a given restaurant - for example, you could have a story channel, where at certain places you read what (may have) happened there. Now add a node for those who actually enter a place and another for those who walk by - you get a multiple choice story. Each street, each place changes the story you walk through...
they won't need a spray can to tag a wall.
No electrons were harmed creating this post, though some may have been subjected to electrical and/or magnetic fields.
In an information system the content is the easy question. The hard question is information delivery controlled?
In a "benevolent dictator" model you have a single source of information. This dictator has total control of the selection of information. It is by far the most limited system, and usually the least valuable. The "electronic tour guide" is a perfect example of this type of system. This type of system will often fail unless the dictator is considered to be the primary customer.
In a "competitor model" you have anywhere from a few to a few hundred information providers competing to deliver desirable information. Radio and television are a good example here. There are few enough sources of information that the user of the system can evaluate them and select the ones that provide information he finds valuable. The information providers are constantly struggling to provide more desirable information than their competitors.
By far the most powerful system is an "open" model where any user of the system can be an information provider. Telephones, the WorldWideWeb, slashdot, and email are examples of this kind of system. Here the challenge is for design of the system itself to ensure that people receive valuable information. In the telephone system this is predominantly solved by making the source of the information pay for delivering the information. The WorldWideWeb solves this problem by only delivering information that a user explicitly requests. Slashdot solves(?) this problem through the moderation system. Email fails to solve this problem.
-
- - You can't take something off the Internet! That's like trying to take pee out of a swimming pool.
Longer answer: NONE! Don't think about it!
Really long answer: Look, if I wanted advertising, I'd wake up.
Karma: Food Fight (Mostly affected by Date Plate).
The ads would probably make it cheaper, we can't forget that. How much would a newspaper cost without ads?
I think this type of system is ideal for traffic reports, since they must be updated.
Other potential applications include allowing a driver to know whether a particular level in a carpark has parking available (to avoid those row by row searches)
I think one of the strongest possibilities lies in carpooling... You could submit your destination into a queue along with your capacity for passengers, and you could bring strangers with you. How about that! I think there is a similar system already at work, and a dating-type version of it in Japan.
is this system used to send out vital information to the public about say, the licence plate number of a van seen kidnapping a little child in your area earlier that day, with a request to call the police if you see it. Waiting for the 6 o'clock news to spread the word usually doesn't cut it.
GSM already supports a system called Cell Broadcast. You select a channel on your phone and messages get sent to everyone in the same cell who are "tuned" in.
I worked on this in 1999, so you can assume that it was never a huge success. Most telco's couldn't figure out how to make money from it and so never bought it. There's not enough text space for adverts and people would quickly get sick of SPAM messages.
I realise that it's slightly different to what's being proposed here, but it does sound rather similar.
Check out estreet.lu to find out how the experimental service worked in Luleå, Sweden.
Perhaps not, but I'm sure some people would pay to avoid it.
I live in Bristol but work in london as a Data Warehouse developer. I hate london, the speed that every one want to move there is no relaxation in the place, thats why when i return home on the weekends i like to go into town, or up to our out of town shopping centre to chill out and spend some of that hard earned cash. Ahhhh i think i will go for a coffee
beep beep you have 10 new messages
arse
i need a new t-shirt
beep beep you have 10 new messages
fcuk
i will go and watch the sk8 kids
beep beep you have 10 new messages
and from the way i read it they might not even be adverts so (yeah right) but from the way i read the news it will be some sort of floating ethereal billboard all accross town.
walking throught the centre on a sat night all these will be the messages you will get from the loverly townies that inhabit the 150 or so pubs in the square mile
-beep-
i like larger
beer beer
you looking at my woman
fcuk off
i hate every one
i got a bottle to ram in your face
etc etc insert dumb racist homophobic comments here
-beep-
thanks but no thanks
Akira
Kingdom of Loathing (www.kingdomofloathing.com) Addicted is me
The majority of new subscribers are on pay-as-you-go, which is a nominal charge for a handset and then paying for service (with the result that young people often cannot make outgoing (non-emergency) calls because they have temporarily run out of credit).
...my first thought was, "how do I turn this off?"
My second thought was to recall a _Calvin and Hobbes_ panel: "Calvin's Pitcher of Plague: $1.00 not to have any."
Would I pay? To get rid of it, maybe....
I mean, hell, I don't like it either myself.
I don't like the fact that cars have gotten so well soundproofed against road noise.
I don't like drive through fast food, but hell, I've seen someone eating yogurt in her car, with the cup in one hand, the spoon in the other, while she's steering with an elbow.
And as for 'seeing' the emergency, there's this little concept called 'line of sight'. You see, in Washington, DC, there's these things called 'buildings', which are much, much bigger than the vehicles, and they're all over the place, which makes it hard to see the vehicles if they're not in a straight line in front or behind you. We then have other problems with things called 'hills' and other large vehicles which I like to call 'trucks'.
I've sat at intersections for minutes in DC, when I can hear a siren, but I have no idea where it is. [Doesn't help that my place of work is 2 blocks from a hospital, and 3 blocks from firestation]. People start getting really pissy and honking after a minute or so, which makes it even more difficult to tell where it is by sound alone.
As for my cell phone, yes, I do use it while I'm driving. I used it last night, in fact, to call WTOP to report a three car accident in the snow, so they could make sure the police knew about it to get it cleaned up.
Unfortunately, there's no place along the Suitland Parkway to pull over to make/take a call, and I'm on call 24x7, so I have answered my phone while in transit, as I need to know if I need to turn around, and get back to a terminal immediately, or if I have enough time to sit in traffic and make it home/to work before things get worse.
So, please take your thumb out of your ass, and channel your hostility into more constructive criticism. If you have a problem with something, come up with a solution; just saying it's bad, and you don't like it isn't doing anyone any good... hell, writing a letter to your state/federal/county/city government would be more beneficial than some flame on a website.
Build it, and they will come^Hplain.
would be for the new "Amber Alert" here in the states. Where cell phone users in an area where a child has just been reported missing can receive messages on their cells as well as all the other outlets the Amber Alert uses now.
I am professionally trained in computer science, which is to say
(in all seriousness) that I am extremely poorly educated.
-- Joseph Weizenbaum, "Computer Power and Human Reason"
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