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First Red Hat Academy for High School
FrankBama writes "As a follow-up to the story of a few days ago, Red Hat has started a program in my old hometown. The story's at the News & Record. I love this part '...this training normally would cost more than $10,000. But Weaver students can get Red Hat certification free -- and use it get a job paying more than $30,000 a year right out of high school.'"
I had to leave IT and I have several years of experience. Thanks to bootcamps certifications are no more then peaces of paper. A paper is nice but its worthless without experience.
http://saveie6.com/
Its nice and all that they are trying to help highschool kids have a future after school but I don't think this is an appropriate choice for training. I have yet to meet anyone "right out of highschool" who has the intellectual maturity (notice I didn't say capacity) to function in a corporate position. This applies especially to positions such as Systems Administration where experience, wisdom and maturity are an absolute necessity.
I know all the shit-hot teenage geeks out there are going to think I'm out of line for saying this (especially when they feel they are ready to take on the world). I'd recommend they go to University and expand their minds a bit even if they feel it is below them or that they wouldn't learn anything. Don't rush into being a wage-slave, kiddies, its not half as much fun as you think it is.
... but back then, I was learning DOS 3.3 (for Apple II) and AppleWorks, becuase "everyone in the future will be using this stuff!"...
Anyway, I took that seriously, and made damn sure that I *knew* to enter the proper date when Appleworks was starting up, and that I *had* to make sure I had the right disks in the drives.
(Interesting note: Even in Word 2002, CONTROL-B and CONTROL-L are for bold and underlining, respectively)
Of course, we all learned how to use Apple DOS (both 3.3 and ProDOS) - we^H^Hthe rest of the class did this for a solid month, during which time I was permitted to play Choplifter, Cannonball Blitz, and Ultima V because I already knew how to use Dos... which *really* pissed the rest of the class off...
Anyway, to get to my point, I wonder how relavent the things that they learn now will be a few years after they graduate - and I hope it is *concepts* that they learn, instead of cookie cutter "type CATALOG to see a what's on your disk, insert your disk and type PR#6 to start AppleWorks" stuff...
-RickTheWizKid
(Open-Apple-S to save, Open-Apple-P to print)
We would all be complaining and kicking and screaming right now. What's the difference between Redhat and Microsoft? In business terms nothing, they both have share holders to please. Don't become gullible to Redhat, they need to make money too. The only good thing is that they help tow the open source line and are successful in socio-economic terms.
more people without college degrees working in the IT field. I mean, shucks... Who needs emotional intelligence, improved social skills, exposure to a broad range of topics, writing skills, and all of that other silly things you hopefully pick up in college?
Seriously, most of the H.S.-diploma-only folks I've ever dealt with in the professional world have chips on their shoulders. Ten times worse than those who went to Ivy League schools, in fact.
But Weaver students can get Red Hat certification free -- and use it get a job paying more than $30,000 a year right out of high school.'
Oh, sweet $DEITY. They could spend time taking college classes in high school, learning marketable skills that aren't tied to a particular manufacturer's contrivances of what a computer operating system should look and act like, learning to code, READING BOOKS, and end up far valuable "just out of high school" than a little RedHat, Cisco, or Microsoft drone. It seems a little premature (high school) to be focusing so heavily on something so specialized instead of gaining an appreciation and general understanding of computing.
The kids that come out of these programs (I've got a "Cisco Academy" at a high school close by that I work with, and know people who teach at another high school that's been doing CompTIA "A+" training, and I've gotten to be around some of these kids) are mostly useless drones. The kids that really have potential are the ones that hack around on their own, have a genuine interest, and make something of themselves on their own. I'd take one (1) of them to ten (10) of these "cookie cutter kids". The training is just too specialized-- they can't handle something that wasn't "in the book".
Don't get me wrong-- I think it's great that schools are expanding their technical training-- but don't expect these kids to be useful for much other than what they've been "trained" for when they get done.
Those Cisco kiddies can sure make the patch cables, though. Snip-snip, crimp-crimp!
The Attitude Adjuster, I hate me, you can too.
Vocational training in high school has always provided this type of opportunity. Right now we have IT certs like this one and the CISCO ones we have in my town (and they are grouped with the vocational classes). When I was in high school several of my friends leveraged their vocational training into 30K-40K jobs with various airlines as machinists. When my father was in high school, he leveraged his electronics vocational training into a good paying job (at the time) with the phone company (remember when all telcom was simply 'the phone company'?).
One big difference though is the lack of unions in IT. Even through crappy economic times and corporate changes my father and friends from high school have continued to do alright--not great, but alright.
Could this be compared to when linuxgruven (or whatever that linux certification training company was) guaranteed that you'd get a job (with them if necessary) after you got your cert?
Not nearly as bad though.
I must applaud this school, and Red Hat for their efforts. I wish they did this 9 years ago when I was at school! I know of several schools in my area offering MCSE and Cisco certifications as well.
I hope that the school is encouraging the kids to use this new knowlege as a jumpstart into college. Kids: $30,000 a year may sound like a lot when you're living with your parents but it's nothing once you have a mortgage and hungry mouths to feed! With a college degree you can command a much higher salary [1].
A college placement is much easier to come by if you can say you obtained Linux certs in school and it'll give you a huge advantage over the other students.
In writing this comment I have had one thought though. When are High Schools going to start teaching kids how to read, write and do arithmetic? I know plenty of people WITH high school dipolmas who can't spell, can barely read and need a calculator for basic arithmetic.
[1] I'm also hoping that by the time current high school students graduate college the economical climate will have improved and jobs will become available for them.
Some quick math here....
$30k per year with $0 direct education costs
$50k pery year with $bigint direct education cost.
Hrm. Doesn't sound that bad to me.
An engineer? What kind? Mechanical? Electrical? Give me the type please.
There are very few jobs that you get right out of college paying 50k a year, I don't care what your GPA was, if you were student body pres, or blew the dean of men.
I have 13 years tech experience, plus an IS degree, and two years doing tech work in Latin America(speak fluent spanish) I just got a job pulling 42 grand a year with full benefits. AND I AM DAMN GLAD OF IT. The job is in Louisiana where the cost of living is dirt ass cheap, so it is like 55 any where else.
My friends who become engineers all, got jobs making 25-30k when they started out, and these are guys with GPAS from great school.
A college degree does not guarantee you a 50k job, nor does a masters.
And I hate to say it, but all my jobs looked at past projects and years on the job. Though the degree does open a lotta doors.
A college graduate with a good 8 years under his built might make 50.
You need a reality check.
Puto
The Revolution Will Not Be Televised
my highschool had 2 year Cisco program that started my junior year. I wanted to take it but had a class conflict. In the end it worked out for the best that i didn't take it because it was a 2 year waste of time.
the instructor was the auto teacher who went through a 6 week course to teach a 2 year program. Any time a student had a question, the teacher didn't have a clue. After 2 years, not a single student was able to pass the certification test, or even think it was worth it to try.
I got a part time job working the help desk at a local ISP/website development/network administration company my senior year. after working there for 4 months i knew more about router configurations than any of my friends in the 'holy' Cisco program. You can see why i feel highschool programs are bullshit now.
Applying this to the Red Hat situation, Unless red hat hired and is paying the instructor, its going to be some math teacher, or shop teacher who got a book and a boot camp and he/she will be lost and the kids' time would be better spent reading stuff off of the internet durning a study hall.
>> And I'd hope that even a high school graduate could make more than $30k a year with a good understanding of Linux systems administration.
You probably could. If you had a good understanding of systems administration in general. They wont. They'll have a bunch of general knowledge about how linux works and what some of the config files are for. If they're lucky they'll get to sit at a help desk. If they stick with the high school education alone and put in enough years, the annual cost of living increase might get them to 30k.
This is a good learning base to move on to college, but nothing short of going to work for your dad is going to get you 30k as a 'redhad administrator' out of high school.
I don't need no instructions to know how to rock!!!!
With this type of scenario if it actually pans out we have the Las Vegas effect. Droves of people with decent paying jobs but little or no education (college wise), and a community demanding that people be educated and attend college.
Why, when you get out of H.S. and work 4 years starting at $30K you still make more than your college counterpart in the long run?
or am I right when I think you could make 30K at Walmart?
This
A college degree does not guarantee you a 50k job, nor does a masters.
No, it does not guarantee anything. On the other hand, should you find a job in some engineering fields on graduation, the average starting salary IS $50K. For example, the AICHE reports that the 2002 average starting salary for various engineering professions was:
* Chemical Engineering: $51,254
* Electrical Engineering: $50,387
* Mechanical Engineering: $48,654
A college graduate with a good 8 years under his built might make 50.
After 8 years of experience most engineers have been promoted twice and would expect a 30% increment at least over a fresh out of college employee. That would put such a person the the range of $65-70K.
It's funny, some people think $30k isn't anything, others think there's no way a HS grad could pull in $30k right out of HS with a RH cert. I'm going to be 20 years old in a few days, and here is my life in a nutshell. Perhaps it will give someone else insight as to the paths they might take at this early stage in life.
At age 9 I mowed 3-4 lawns a day for a summer and bought my first computer for $400. I hacked on it 24/7. It has been to my benefit, IMO, that I have never been big on games, because boy are they a waste of time. I did a lot of QBASIC.
I got my first job at a small (10 person) startup IT consulting firm at age 15, broke all child labor laws working 60-80 hrs a week (by choice mind you), and made $8/hr. My 1 year raise was $.25/hr. A few months later, I got knocked up to $9/hr. During this time I did mainly VB programming. At this point, the company fired their router guy, so I jumped right in and filled the gap. I soon obtained my CCNA and soon after ask for, and recieved, a salary of $32,000, before my 17th birthday.
I then obtained my MCP because we were a Windows shop. I was still at this point 50/50 programmer/tech. I couldn't decide what my pasion was for. IT company started going downhill, a few days before my 19th bday I baled and got a job at a financial institution - titled 'network technician' on a team of about 4 techs, however I am the network administrator by any definition, I have the responsibility (but not the title) of the security administrator, as well as Exchange administrator (to my agony). I just obtained my MCSA as part of my job objectives for the last 6 month period. At this point I am making $42,000.
I took 12 credit hours at a community college back when I was 16, and am realizing now that especially in the field of network security a degree is important not just for the piece of paper to show the suits, but anyone really does benefit from the well-rounded education you get along the way. I intend to continue attending university part time for as long as it takes. I love my job, my hobby. I am now purchasing a house, enjoying being married, and looking forward to every day I get to go to work, and excited that I have the oppourtunity continue my college education...
I am only in the 10th grade and I know I wouldnt take this class even if it was offered to me. I knox enough to test out of the certification (well maybe not fn rh). But, I know I would not take it, its just a waste of my time. I'll get paid about 4 times as much straight outa college majoring in eecs (electrical engineering and computer science). If you really wanna learn computers dont go for some pos 'commercial' linux system. Go out and learn how to make your own system. Maybe you can have a certification course some day :P
Seriously, however, nobody is going to pay an 18 year old $30k/yr. It wasnt until recently that I have been able to make good money, because most corporate people dont promote or pay well "youngsters" (unless they are bullshitters with an MBA). Lucky for me the men in my family get grey hair early.
Manipulate the moderator system! Mod someone as "overrated" today.
>> I ask agian, why do you think people who have no college should be banished to the domain of "carpenters/plumbers/welders/machinists"?
Banished to the domain? Hardly.. Have you any idea what a master plumber or carpenter makes? You're a fool for looking down your nose at people who work with their hands for a living.
You can get a job in IT with HS education. But chances are that 30k job will pay 30k for the rest of your life.
If you want a future out of high school, you're better off as a tradesman.
Besides, people will always need carpenters, contractors, plumbers and electricians. The wont always need a RHCE
I don't need no instructions to know how to rock!!!!
[posted without +1 bonus to avoid karma whoring]
I really resent your comments. Certainly I do not know what every part of my system is doing 100% of the time, nor should I have to know. The idea is to know about one area, or one set of areas and have a good understanding of that component. I know enough about how my system works to use it in the ways I want to and if I don't I go lean more about it so I can make it happen. However, are script kiddies module owners for open-source software projects? Do script kiddies spend the weekend building tools to assist with the development of perl6 (not a language war flame)? I think not.
You seem to be making baseless accusiations with absolutely no proof. Personally, I find technical theater to be facinating and do not see how that reflects on my social skills or my ability to use technology.
Please try not to post flames just for the sake of attacking random innocent people. Get to know someone, then determine what skills they may or may not have.
Yes, a degree is a piece of paper. A piece of paper that represents experience, technical fortitude, and problem solving. ( it depends of where you get the education ) I'm grossly tired of many slashdotters denotting ALL degrees/certifications as useless. That is not true in ALL cases. There are some programs or educational facilities that just want your money. However, most colleges or cerification programs that I have seen are worth taking. In certain situations it is not possible to teach your self how everything works because your can't afford the equipment, books, or understand the material. Colleges, for a modest fee (tuition) will let you play with VERY expensive equipment. Thus you gain experience. I agree experience it better than book knowledge. College is about both. The two interplay nicely to create a rounded employee, not some drone. Certifications are ok, degrees are good, and experience is best, but I believe all three are necessary. You can't rely on just one. Honestly, I have never seen any corporation that expects their employees to know everything and have experience in everything. Most of the corporate life is on the job training. In the end, the most imporant lesson is learn how to learn. Experience won't help in every situation, nor will a cert or a degree. But knowing how to learning will always be there to solve any problem.
God, I hope they don't advertise the $30000 salary right out of high school too much. Kids should want to take this class to learn the stuff, not to make $30k the next year. Because it just isn't that much, and there isn't that much potential for a higher salary for someone who takes a job straight out of high school.
This sounds like a good way for a lot of promising young kids to get absolutely screwed (and not in the good way that most of them wouldn't mind).
Lack of eloquence does not denote lack of intelligence, though they often coincide.
Yeah, wait now -- who's hiring again?
A lot of people, if you're an experienced systems administrator who's willing to work for $30,000 a year...
First off, does Red Hat have any concrete advantages over other *NIXen for systems administration? Don't sell your personal favorite, just state the facts, please. :)
Second, does the Red Hat certification training provide reasonably bias-free instruction in regards to different *NIXen?
The second is far more relevant then the first, but I'm curious about both.
--
est modus in rebus
I had this same thing.. Cisco has been setting up similar things to give CCNA's to high school students across the country.
The teachers are telling the kids how they can make $40k right out of high school. I got my CCNA thru their school program as a senior
let me tell you, it is total BULLSHIT. 90% of the people who actually passed the cert (which was only ~50% of the class, me included) will never touch a router at least not for another 5 years. and they WONT find a $40k job out of high school working on cisco equipment, especially with the current IT economy
I was lucky and landed a job out of high school in 2000 when the economy was still decent, I work as a mainframe computer and high-end 64-bit unix machine operator in a large computer datacenter (also the webmaster for our datacenter). I was the last person they hired without a degree, now they wont even consider u unless you have a degree AND working IT experience. CCNA's are now worthless thanks to cisco flooding the market with no-knowledge high school punks who think they are the shit because they vaguely know what "config t" is
You're faulting George W. Bush for a normal cyclic correction in the economy? Look, when 18 year olds are getting hired out of high school with a GED making $45k/year because they have a little Linux and Perl skills, don't you think something is wrong? Go to college and try taking some economics courses if you don't understand what I'm getting at. The stock market was hugely inflated and nobody in their right mind believed it would last forever. The bigger the high the bigger the crash afterwards. They didn't call them the roaring 20's for nothing. We can only be glad they've instituted laws to help keep things like the Great Depression from happening again (as best as is possible) and that we only have a 6-10% unemployment rate. I don't see people on the street with signs saying "will code for food". Then again, I don't live in San Jose.