Slashdot Mirror
Slashback: Stupidity, Telebastardy, Fast Search
"I read your Overture/FAST story on Slashdot and wanted to make a clarification.Thanks for the correction, Peter.Your headline implies that Overture is completely acquiring FAST. This is completely incorrect. Overture has only acquired FAST's Internet business unit assets, which includes FAST WebSearch, FAST PartnerSite and FAST's popular search site, AlltheWeb.com."
Isn't that the stuff that sells? icantblvitsnotbutter writes "In what looks like a scoop, The Register has an article covering the latest in the ongoing battle between Gary Kremen and VeriSign. The High Court of California has rejected a request to consider the legal issue of whether a domain can legally be deemed as property. This is a huge help for (relatively) money-strapped Kremen, whose opponent VeriSign was evidently using the request as a delaying tactic. VeriSign previously had breathlessly warned that a wrong decision would 'cripple the Internet'."
And they made such a pleasant version of Debian, too ... robmered writes "Three years after receiving US$135M in cash from Microsoft, and one and a half years after Xandros bought Corel's Linux assets, The Age is reporting that Corel has finally removed all Linux software from its website. The end of an era, or a margin note in history? The Age thinks the former, but the strength of Open Office, Gimp and numerous desktop environment efforts seem to indicate that the Linux bandwagon will roll on regardless."
Certainly, I would like to talk at length about your business proposal. Would you like to know my fees in advance? KC7GR writes "There's an article running at DMNews about a company called Castel, Inc. that has, supposedly, developed software that can be used by automated dialing equipment to bypass a TeleZapper, or similar SIT generators, and get through to your phone no matter what.
It is also claimed that the software can deliver any type of text or phone number to a recipient's caller ID box, no matter if it's true or false, and that it can also bypass the anti-telemarketer blocks made available by some telephone companies, such as SBC and Qwest.
Granted, this software is not cheap (about $2,700.00 per calling position, apparently), and Castel is quick to claim that they created this stuff primarily for collection agencies to help them get through to deadbeats who use TeleZappers. Does anyone here really think that'll stop telemarketers from using the same crap, just because they can?"
Brevity is one antidote to stupidity. Yoda2 writes "Here is Part II of the Salon story on the Loebner Prize that Slashdot covered yesterday."
Is that not illegal yet?
Help a college student
When someone invented a caller id blocker blocker blocker.
Er, nope.
And people still fork out $5 a month for CLI. Meanwhile there's just no way a telemarketer can get through to my phone, and I don't breach the privacy of my friends and collegues (why should I force them to give me their phone number? I wouldn't force them to give me their address before letting them in the house...) and all because of a $15 piece of junk I got from the local branch of Wal*Mart.
Bliss. And my electricity bill's lower too. Between this and my new Mac, I can power the entire house on my own smugness...
You are not alone. This is not normal. None of this is normal.
A possibly less slashdotted version of the TeleZapper article can be found at http://www.techdirt.com/articles/20030225/1553220. shtml.
I worked as a telemarketer once... for a week. I got paid full time for my training and then bailed and got a new job before ever making a call. So I know nothing about the industry.
I'm curious, how long do you think it would take a telemarketing company to pay off the huge chunk of change they'd require to buy enough copies of this program to outfit their entire outfit? As I recall, there were several hundred stations at the place I worked.
~SL
So does that mean if you fight for the right to have a free trial you are going to commit a crime? Is it not possible for someone to fight for something based purely on ideology rather than self-interest? What happened to standing up for what you believed because you believe it, and not because you gain from it?
If you're not willing to fight for your privacy, you don't deserve it in the first place.
Posting as directed.
This new technology allows the telemarketers to make any name appear that they want. Great. Now I'm going to get calls from "President Bush" and "Saddam Hussein" and "Michael Jackson", instead of "Unknown Out of Area Caller". Which is worse? ;-)
--sex
Very popular slashdot journal for adul
You sir or madam, are an idiot. NO ONE will fight for YOUR privacy, except for you. Go ahead, sit around, and lose your rights. But I'm going to fight the good fight. You can thank me later.
or maybe you are just a bastard
Is SourceForge working on a competing model yet?
~SL
Incoming Call From: Bill Gates ...
Accept/Decline?
using namespace slashdot;
troll::post();
I can think of a number of uses for this, including search engines, help desk stuff, etc. How long before this becomes commonplace technology? Five years, ten years?
Since you claim to have nothing to hide, and there should be no concern for privacy, please post your full name and address. I'll be by shortly with a few miniature camera's to install in your bedroom, bathroom, and living room. A few taps for the phone, and other assorted recording and monitoring device. Please also pop the hood on your car so I can install the GPS tracking system. Got a cell phone? I'll need your ESN and number please.
What? You don't want to provide that? Not even your name, phone number, and address? Why ever not? I though you didn't think privacy mattered!
Gasp! You must have something to hide!
"They do not preach that their god will rouse them, a little before the Nuts work loose." Kipling, 'The Sons of Martha'
So, who aquired Make.Money.FAST?
Karma: Marginal (mostly due to the border around the website)
And I believe that just because you have something to hide doesn't mean you shouldn't be able/allowed to hide it. Everybody has plenty of persoanl information and they should have every right to resist it becoming public.
"Prefiero morir de pie que vivir siempre arrodillado!"
developed software that can be used by automated dialing equipment to bypass a TeleZapper, or similar SIT generators, and get through to your phone no matter what.
I would think that this would do far more to hurt the industry than help them, especially as far as the government deciding whether or not to regulate do not call lists.
If you have your own phone switch, you can send out any caller id you want. It's not authoritative, never has been. It's about the same as a reply-to address in email. It's a shame the poster didn't buy Kevin Mitnick's book after it was mentioned on slashdot so many times, because he does cover caller id spoofing for social engineering on people who do think caller id is a secure way to id the caller.
Yeah, I absolutely have to keep First Mutual Mortgage and Gordo's Roofing Service out of my bio-weapons cache.
Argh, I haven't even finished the FIRST article. Are they writing a book??
if(!cool) exit(-1);
this was actually funny!
...Score: -1 Real Life is Gonna Break Your Goddamn Door One Day (for being stupid)
i hate the way modders mod up the psuedo intellectual answers.
calling the guy a bastard made sense.
i give you a virtual mod up....Score: 5 Appropriate
I give the modders
Parent-parent posting was worded cleverly (or stupidly, depending on intent):
"Fight it", not "fight for it".
1.My kids' names
2.Their ages
3.Their birthdates
4.The school they go to
5.My address
6.What they look like
7.What route they take home from school
8.Who their teachers are
9.Where hteir soccer practice is held
10.The secret password we use to authenticate and
11.When I am home and when I am not
authorize pick-up-the-kid-from-wherever functions
Oh and privacy isn't just about secrecy, it's about private spaceand private property. Private property means control over that property.
I think every address should have a public phone to which certain callers are restricted to only leaving messages. Kind of like how you can yell from across the street at me all you like, bu the minute you get on my property I cantell you to go away in which case refusal to do might cause your yell-from-across-the-street privileges to be legally revoked as well.
Dinner time is highly private property. Weekends and afternoons are highly private property. Ho
The message on the other side of this sig is false.
...and Castel is quick to claim that they created this stuff primarily for collection agencies to help them get through to deadbeats who use TeleZappers.
Ok, so let me get this straight. I'm Joe deadbeat, but I still pay for a phone. But, since I've been labled a "deadbeat" by EQUIFAX or some rabid collecation agency, it's OK for them to spoof my CallerID or bypass means that I have put in place to try to require callers to present a valid call?
This type of morality, it's OK to do X to Y beacuse they are Z, just sickens me. I personally think that anyone who subscribes to this kind of slipperly slope logic should get a punch in the mouth.
Really, I know what I'm doing...Ohhhh, look at the shiny buttons!
10. The secret password we use to authenticate and
authorize pick-up-the-kid-from-wherever functions.
Homework time is private property.
The message on the other side of this sig is false.
We all have something to hide. Some people are hiding very bad things... others are hiding things that big business or government tells us are bad... but almost everyone does anyways.
Nobody is 100% innocent.
I'm in charge of the phones, among other things here at the office. And our Nortel switch can already transmit whatever the owner wants, for CID info, according to the company that handles our maitenance contract. The tech told me that it's childishly simple to change it to almost anything.
And this system, is several years old.
"Politicians are interested in people. Not that this is always a virtue. Fleas are interested in dogs." P.J. O'Rourke
Wow, a business being held accountable for their actions? Who would have thought!
Of course VeriSign would have no problem nuking your domain should you fail to pay them for registering your domain name to you. By definition then you are paying for the domain name to be registered to you.
If I purchased a car and the dealership turned around and gave my car to someone else do you think they'd get away with it for long?
If I order food from a restaraunt and they make an error on my order do they turn around and tell my "Tough sh*t"?
Why then, if someone were to pay VeriSign for a service, should VeriSign not be accountable for said paid for service?
"They do not preach that their god will rouse them, a little before the Nuts work loose." Kipling, 'The Sons of Martha'
I used to work at a skip-only (acounts sent to us with no numbers, we had to skiptrace first) collection agency. Our margins were razor thin. There's no way in hell we could have spent $2,700 per position for this software.
Most dialers SUCK BALLS as well- their software was designed by idiots. How does this call-blocker-buster proport to work, anyway?
Should we really feel bad/left out that Corel's products were as irrelevant on Linux as they were on Windows? Frankly, I don't feel too bad about that...but if I were the CEO of Corel that might be different.
In Texas, law explicitly requires callers to identify themselves in CallerID with a phone number the business can be reached at (NOT attached to an autodialer), or if the equipment is not capable of presenting a number, they must state their company name and callback number in the first 30 seconds of a call.
Note that by having ANY id, your equipment can obviously present callerID.
For once, Texas has a useful law.
Timothy, why does everyone hate you? Is it because you use your mod points the same way George W Bush uses the military? You are an insignifigant speck, and will most certainly bitchslap my account for this( I'll post using my nick so you can look it up, not like you can't anyways). TTFN, Ta Ta for now... AC
Experience-Based Language Acquisition (EBLA) is an open source software system written in Java that enables a computer to learn simple language from scratch based on visual perception. It is the first "grounded" language system capable of learning both nouns and verbs. Moreover, once EBLA has established a vocabulary, it can perform basic scene analysis to generate descriptions of novel videos.
A more detailed summary is available here and this is the project web site.
I've always been intrigued by Salon's output, but I cannot honestly take this article seriously. The author has a very clear pro-Loebner bias that he doesn't even try to conceal. His hostility towards Minsky, Dennett, and the rest of the established academic community is so blatant (and unfounded) that it's embarrassing to read. Take this quote:
Decision sciences, by the simplest possible definition, refers to computerized assistance in resource allocation. An example provided by a press release from MIT announcing the creation of a decision sciences program was "complex computer-based 'passenger yield management' systems and models that the airlines use to adjust pricing of each flight's seats in order to maximize revenue and profitability to the airline." That's a far cry from the bold claims made by A.I. visionaries in decades past. But focusing on such systems has a signal advantage for scientists who have been failing miserably at the Turing test. It gets them off the hook.
And later: In other words, if you read between the lines what you come up with is that one reason "serious" A.I. scientists don't try to mimic human speech anymore is that they discovered they can't do it.
Okay, so he's holding up the academics to ridicule because they abandoned the Turing Test. Why did they abandon the Turing Test. Will, according to the filty academic, it's because: ""The Turing test is not very useful for many A.I. scientists today because they work on projects that have nothing to do with human linguistic performance."
So, the respectable AI people aren't working with the Turing Test because they aren't working with linguistics. Gosh, that seems fairly reasonable to me. I mean, I suppose it's possible that the entire AI academic community, en masse, chose to boycott a hack contest run by an East Coast elite who started the contest because "He's a hedonist who thinks work is an abomination and sloth is our greatest virtue. He got interested in A.I. because he hoped the day would come when robots and A.I.'s could do all the work and people could play all the time." The rich kid wants to play so those damn academics better make me a robot who can bake me a pie. But I digress....
The contest focuses on a field that has been abandoned by current AI research. Why? Because we can't make it work yet. The hardware isn't there yet. So we're doing other stuff. Look at the progress of chess programs, mission-critical systems, UT bots. AI is getting better. A souped-up ELIZA isn't going to confirm that. They attack the AI people for not producing better entries for a contest the AI people don't find valid. Loebner and the author, who are obviously in the same camp, are trying to have it both ways. Bullshit. If Salon wants my money to stay afloat, they'll have to do better than this.
~Chazzf
No statement is true, not even this one.
Good Job Myriad! Once again, bringing idiocy to its penultimate level is the best way to get the point across.
Skeletons in the closet,
AWG
You think that I'm crazy, you should see this guy!
Well, then you should have no problem if I send you a set of envelope sized clear ziplock sandwich bags that you can use for your mail instead of wasting your money on envelopes, right?
If I included postage on them would you use them? It's not a bad deal really. I mean, if you have nothing to hide, why should you worry if the postman you hate across the street opens all your mail (undetected, because it's ziplock!) and gives it a peruse. Maybe he can even report any mistakes you've made on paying your Visa to the credit agency for you, or errors on your income tax report to the IRS! How excellent!
If you don't want that, well, you must have something to hide. I mean, it's not like it's even going to cost you anything to do this, you'd _make_ money, and your only cost is the privacy you don't value anyways!
If you could be told what you can see or read, then it follows that you could be told what to say or think - BoC
It might even be possible to say that by intentionally bypassing someone's blocks they put on your incoming calls that you're harassing them. IANAL though. I only play one on slashdot.
And why exactly can't we have a SPEWS/blackhole type of call blocking list? I'm paitently waiting.
The question remains:
If people are willing to subscribe to/buy telezappers, block lists, do not call lists, etc...
Can't telemarketers get the point that these people are not potential sales, they're only potential angry call recipients?
Not only that, but wouldn't forging a phone number come under some sort of legal troubles... especially if you used a number that somebody else owns?
It is also claimed that the software can deliver any type of text or phone number to a recipient's caller ID box, no matter if it's true or false, and that it can also bypass the anti-telemarketer blocks made available by some telephone companies, such as SBC and Qwest.
Anybody with an IDSL or PBX phone system can put in anything they want on Caller ID. And recognizing SIT tones is a feature on better telemarketing rigs, and generally one that can be turned off. They don't "bypass" the telezapper, they simply ignore it. Duh.
On the other hand, any telemarketer that pays $2700 for something so obivously a ripoff will get no sympathy from me.
Re-reading your sentence just made me realise it made no sense at all.
Sorry for responding, but it's unclear to me exactly what the hell you're trying to say now that I've taken a second look at it.
If you could be told what you can see or read, then it follows that you could be told what to say or think - BoC
Isn't Castle, Inc's software a direct violation of the DMCA? It purposely gets around blocks AND can falsely report information to a caller id box. Sounds like it's time to pull out the lawyers.
"There is a way that seems right to a man, but its end is the way of death." Proverbs 16:25 (NKJV)
Don't you think you would have been better at hiding your little troll club?
Just a Tuna in the Sea of Life
what happens when all the data farms get sold to these assholes? suddenly you start getting calls from your mom, your friends, your job only when you answer the phone its a friendly telemarketer who want sjust a moment of your time to complete their survey..
oh well, i remember reading extensive articles about these kinds of things 10 years ago on bbs's.. (how to block/change/build your own shit etc) i guess now its mainstream for telemarketers hooray
There should be a mod +1 "Common misconception shared by many".
The parent is *serious*, it seems. I think a couple of good replies have been posted and modded up already. But please, mod him up or put up an explanation for him. Unless its a troll do not mod him down and pretend he does not exist.
-B
Ash and Hickory, straight-grained and true, make excellent bludgeons, dandy for the cudgeling of vegetarians.
Or have been a victim of, or know how to use personal privacy to do harm.
Must be a liberial. Only way you pretend to win is by cheating.
IE, creating a sub group of misinformed turds within a loosely bound forum and...forget it...
Can I just get some information about you then?
I'd like to know your preferred brand of bread.
And I'd like to know if you like mayonnaise.
Could you also tell me whether you make between 40-75k a year or 75-100k a year or more?
In addition, I would like your full name, address, phone number, and your nationality.
What is your checking account routing number?
Read his journal and tell me he is not a troll.
Just a Tuna in the Sea of Life
"I side on the fence that if you care enough about privacy to make it your job to fight it, you clearly have something to hide."
.AVI actually contained the movie.
I'm more worried about lack of context. For example, if the MPAA finds a log somewhere that shows my computer downloaded Harry Potter.avi, how do they know the following:
1.) That the
2.) That I don't already own the DVD.
3.) That I was the one who downloaded it, as opposed to a clever e-mail virus or something.
4.) That I downloaded it beacuse I clicked the wrong link or because it was misrepresented.
Not having anything to hide does not mean you're exempt from being burned by this. People can draw all kinds of wild conclusions with little bits of data like that. Do you want to be labeled as a music pirate because you made a copy of a music CD to keep in your car?
if you have a lot of lines you'll probably have at least a T-1 for the phone system. I haven't seen a T-1/PBX send out CID info as it is. I know it has to be possible somehow, but all the places I worked I just left it alone and the caller just saw "unavailable". I know a lot of the hospitals around here are like that too.
sex.com having sordid adventures... I sure hope so!
Just because someone has nothing to hide it doesn't mean they are happy for everyone to know everything in intimate detail. That I have nothing to hide as far as the government or law enforcement is concerned doesn't mean I am happy to have you watch me in the shower.
I always assumed that the term "nothing to hide" meant roughly that I had nothing that would cause me too much grief if it became known to people who mattered to me in some way (eg I don't want my wife to know about the pr0n or my boss to know its gay pr0n).
As you don't particularly matter to me its not a question of 'nothing to hide', it's just none of your damn business.
Why isn't this type of crap covered by the security circumvention laws.
Caller ID is easy to spoof, our company spoofs ALL outgoing phone traffic to report the phone number of our main trunk line. So this isn't that surprising to me. It's all in what you send over the data channel.
But what about 911? They use something other than Caller ID, don't they? Something that can't be spoofed by the end user? If they don't, or it can in fact be spoofed as well, I can see quite a bit of abuse once this practice becomes mainstream.
What is their "special" Caller ID called? How is it transmitted to them? Can regular people receive it?
my son and daughter are.
I want to keep everything about them private.
The Kruger Dunning explains most post on
All the telezapper does it emit the first of the three tones in a standard SIT signal... you know, the little "doo dee dweep the number you have dialed is no longer in service" thing you get from time to time. This tone is handled in the automated dialing software the same way that any other tones (1,2,3,#,etc) are... i.e. however the programmer wants to handle it, depending on the application. There's no magic involved in "getting around" a telezapper, it would involve one line of programming code to simply ignore it.
by the way, you don't NEED a telezapper... if you use an answering machine, just record the SIT tone (or even the first 1/3rd of it) at the beginning of your outgoing message. Human callers expect weird noises from answering machines, they just ignore it. But automated dialers which are programmed to look for it assume the number is disconnected.
To get the SIT tones, just google up sit.wav, you can find it all over the place.
To ensure perfect aim, shoot first and call whatever you hit the target
The difference is whether you're hiding something purely to protect your privacy, or to perpetrate a crime, there's the rub. One must assume the former lest be condemnatory of the whole race.
It isn't a question of my privacy. It is a question of my *right* to be secure in my person, home, and papers.
The privacy issue is the privacy of the telemarketer or collection agency. *They* are the ones crying right to "privacy" while trying to devise ways to violate my *right* to be secure in my home by demanding entry without revealing who they are first.
If someone comes to my door wearing a ski mask and asks to be let in but won't tell me who they are, well guess what? *I ain't lettin' 'em in.*
Go figure.
What this software does is allow them to knock on my door and request entry *while disguised as my girlfriend.*
Well, as my dear, sweet, little old granny used to say, " They can blow that shit right out their fuckin' ass!"
Granny was a pisser. I miss the old bat.
Well, I can just pull the plug on the damned phone I guess. The telemarketers get more use out of it than I do. I'm not sure why I bother paying thirty bucks a month so MCI can call me and ask me to pay fifty bucks a month anyway.
I suppose then they'll find a way to legally force me to have a phone as way to protect their "freedom" to try to sell me shit I don't want.
Oh. Wait. *I didn't say that.*
Oh Shit. Now I've gone and done it.
KFG
I submitted an article about the telemarketing fsckers and it was rejected!!
It allways takes longer then 30 sec to get that far.
Slashdot, home of supporters of free software, free music, and free speech.Except for Moderators that disagree with you.
Since these devices answer, then play the SIT tones, a fair number of predictive dialers are immune to them anyway. The reason is that they detect answer supervision and move their tone detectors to another call. Real SITs are sent without answer supervision, and moving the detectors to the next call saves resources.
As to sending false CLID, a PRI trunk can be made to do it, if the carrier doesn't enforce checking. For that much outbound calling, probably a lot of carriers would be more than happy, if they bother doing that in any case.
I don't know, or perhaps don't recall, where the name lookup is done. If it is from the A end, it would be equally easy to fake. If it is done at the receiving telco, they would have to give the real number of the institution being faked.
There is a plethora of discussion on Telezappers in comp.dcom.telecom. Check the Google archive.
They will start calling you collect.
You start digging, and EVERYONE has something that they're not proud of.
It might not be illegal, but technically, neither is getting a bj'er in the oval office.
Everyone has a skeleton in their closet. Everyone has some dark, dirty secret, that although not illegal, may show some character flaw which could be embarassing, or destructive. You just gotta dig.
Hell you dig deep enough and in the right place, you might just find some things that I'm not proud of. And that's the stuff that I don't want you, the neighbours, or the family dog digging up.
You think that I'm crazy, you should see this guy!
so as rabid /.'ers are we supposed to be FOR or AGAINST domains being property?
sig.
And before you ask, hookers. Lots and lots of hookers.
You think that I'm crazy, you should see this guy!
There is a secure way to id the caller. Answer the fucking phone. If the call really is from your grandma, she will nag you to cut your hair or something rather than trying to sell you a subscription to Redbook.
Are you sure you meant penultimate, meaning second-from-ultimate?
You remind me of my old sig that said something along the lines of "People in glass houses don't screw, either. The nosy neighbors keep ruining the mood."
Any sufficiently advanced influence is indistinguishable from control.
If the Loebner prize isn't respected by your peers, then the competition isn't that much worth the work of cleaning up your system for the competition. If competing was simply a case of opening up a telnet port to the equivalent of your running nightly build, it wouldn't be such a big issue running in each and every competition out there.
OS Software is like love: The best way to make it grow is to give it away.
1. The fact that I don't have a girlfriend
2. The fact I use M$ Windoze
3. The fact that I like vi and COBOL.
There's a growing sense that even if The Future comes,
most of us won't be able to afford it.
-- Lemmy
Ok, so let me get this straight. I'm Joe deadbeat, but I still pay for a phone. But, since I've been labled a "deadbeat" by EQUIFAX or some rabid collecation agency, it's OK for them to spoof my CallerID or bypass means that I have put in place to try to require callers to present a valid call?
Dear Mr. Mon,
You are absolutely correct. Not only that, but we are also granted access to slashdot.org's log files. Now, if you don't want us to inform your loved ones that you're the "In Soviet Russia..." troll, you'll give us a call right now.
Sincerely,
Ichthyiophile Debt Resolution Service
"'Cause if you mess with Ichthyophile, and you'll be sleeping with the fishes."
A friend of mine lives in Denver and his phone has a service provided by Qwest (I think he got the service when they were still USWest) that plays a message stating that "this number does not accept solicitations... if you're a solicitor hang up and put this # on do-not-call list, otherwise press 1..." His phone doesn't ring unless the caller presses 1. There is also some legislation in Colorado that states, with a system like that, any solicitor who presses 1 to go through anyway can be sued for something like $10k per incident. My friend tells me there have been very few times when a solicitor comes through (where he then mentions the possible fine and they hang up abruptly).
I wonder why there aren't more phone companies offering such a service and why more states don't back up the disturbances with hefty fines. Maybe the telemarketers' lobbyists are lining pockets... maybe(?).
We dont get enough telemarketers in the UK, the ones I do get are mostly charities, and i dont have the heart to have fun with them. I want more telemarketing people that i can screw with, i once had a double glazing salesman say "thanks for wasting my time" after i had him on for 10 mins. My ultimate goal is to give one a heart attack but thats very hard to do over the phone. I guess if i had them calling all the time it would get boring and piss me off.
This comment does not represent the views or opinions of the user.
Yes, I always leave margin for error.
You think that I'm crazy, you should see this guy!
1. Win Loebner Prize
2. Adapt it to answer telemarketing calls
3. Fun and maybe Profit
I'm a consultant - I convert gibberish into cash-flow.
Actually, as my sole telephone has been a mobile phone for the past several years, I've learned that you _ARE_ required to have a landline phone for many things. As it turns out, you can't apply for anything involving a credit check without supplying a valid telephone number - and mobile numbers aren't valid.
I've ranted about it many times, and I've never had any success in gettinga around it. My mobile number causes an error, they can't process without any number at all, and using a friend's number works but doesn't help your credit score.
Stupid phone companies.
-Elentar
The wheel it turns, around and around, with an ancient rumbling sound.
Er, and who gets to dictate this? You? Benjamin Franklin?
Privacy is part and parcel of autonomy. It is a right. That means it descends from the individual, and isn't bestowed by the likes of you. I get to decide what to do with my privacy, including pissing it away slowly, abrogating it immediately, or starting an alien cult to help me defend it to the death.
Are there devices that can get the ANI data, outside of being a 911 operator? Or does the phone company only allow certain circuits access to ANI?
+1 Insightful and let's pray this makes it to 10 Hot Comments.
CAn'T CompreHend SARcaSm?
My Adtran Telephone switch will let me put in whatever caller ID name and numbers I want. We've got a PRI at work and I can send my DID numbers for each employee, or our main office.
It's long been rumored that SBC has "pink contracts" with certain spammers, where for a certain amount of extra money, SBC agrees to hold off enforcing its supposed anti-spam policies. So if they do this as an ISP, what's to prevent them from doing this with regular phone service?
And they do. Pacbell, an SBC company, has been doing this for years. Even if you sign up for an unlisted number, certain companies, notably the LA Times, seem to automatically get it within hours of your establishing a new line. This has happened to me every time I've gotten a new phone line in the last 15 years. When I ask how they could have gotten my unlisted number, they say it's automatic whenever someone gets a new phone. So there you go -- the number *is* being given out, even when you've *paid extra* to not have this happen.
Taking this one step further -- if unlisted numbers are for sale to the right bidder -- why wouldn't they let certain companies, for the right price, get through caller ID blocking systems?
The fact is, there's no real protection. Whatever the laws are, companies seem to flout them freely. That's because there's no practical means of enforcement.
Take faxes, for example. Junk faxes are clearly illegal, and have been for at least 10 years, yet I know people whose offices receive dozens per day. And these tie up phone lines much worse than junk phone calls do. But still, no one bothers to track down the culprits and prosecute, even when it would be like shooting fish in a barrel. The problem is that each junk email, call, or even fax is too much trouble to pursue individually for the amount of nuisance it creates. And that's the perpetrators' inherent advantage.
2003-02-26 18:30:58 A New Tool to Help Telemarketers Fight Against Evi (articles,privacy) (rejected)
Sorry, this one (fair use) is already gone. You don't have the right to extract the contents of the DVD because it's copy-protected and doing so violates the DVD. Plus the copyright licence agreement says you can't.
Three to go!
all the telezapper does is send out eh same tone that a switch sends out to signal that "this number is not in service", so the computer will detect it and hang out, i cant imagine it could be anything more than trivial to program the computer to simply not hangup when it receives that tone.
-- free as in swatantryam - not soujanyam.
Consider doing your part to waste the telemarketers
time. If I am not busy I will sometimes answere and
string them along, some get wise faster than others.
Think of it as gift to your fellow man.
You can also argue with them. My best was when one
telemarketer told me "you don't deserve to live on this plant" and then hung up on me.
A good telemarketing call can get the juices flowing again. Sometimes better than a cup of coffee.
mike
They are going in together with YAHOO. It seems that PacBell has a customer base in place as an ISP, and YAHOO would like to rape it. I have been with SBC for about five years as a PPP customer.. but now they are constantly sending me emails under the heading "action required" that direct me to the Yahoo download page .
Note this has to be downloaded to a Microsoft machine.
No linux support.
I do not like it at all that they insist me download software on my end that their end will talk to. I have no idea of any hidden agenda what the software on my end is doing, nor, under DMCA, is there really any way for me to even legally discuss whats going on.
So, it looks like I may have to change ISP only because Yahoo wants me held captive.
Does anybody have ideas for a good ISP? I am looking at www.copper.net .
"Prove all things; hold fast that which is good." [KJV: I Thessalonians 5:21]
I signed up for phone service in December With Telus, in British Columbia, Canada. In order to not be listed, on Caller ID and the telephone book, they charged a few bucks a month.
So I listed myself as "Heinrich Holiday". They took it, even though The name on the credit card I use to pay the bill and actually listed on the account is totally different.
Hey, saves a couple bucks a month.
Sure there is. Ditch the phone, and go cellular. I haven'd had a hard line phone for four years, and I've loved every minute of it. The few idiots that call my cell are quickly (in the first 60 seconds) that they called a cell phone, and that I don't accept solicitors on that line - please remove it from their list. I've only had to do it twice - in four years.
I simply do not understand people who duck telemarketers. They are the greatest free stress relievers in existance.
Come home from work pissed (as in mad, not drunk), the phone rings, tear the jackass on the other end a new one. You don't know them, they are vermin, your karma is clean.
I have made MCI telemarketers cry before.
Hey, if they want respect they should pick up cans or work at MickeyD's...
And how, by chance, is a device that fools caller ID "primarily designed or produced for the purpose of circumventing a technological measure that effectively controls access to a work protected under this title"? Last I checked, no one's TeleZapper or caller ID box is protecting copyrighted works.
Sheesh, you'd think that with all the DMCA articles on slashdot, people would actually *understand* the law...
"I personally think that anyone who subscribes to this kind of slippery slope logic should get a punch in the mouth."
Normally the slashdot croud is more up on the technical aspects of the issue, but in this case I have to disagree. What we want is a jab/cross/hook/overhand right/double leg to side control/knee in the belly ground n pound/straight armbar with at least three popping noises. You can find the white paper on Sherdog.com. I'm surprised more people haven't read this.
My Blog
I never was able to get WordPerfect to run under Linux, so I'm not too sad to see it go...
I do wonder, however, what the status of the WP filters for OpenOffice is, 'cause I've got a whole lot of papers in WP format from my undergrad days. Anyone know?
For that matter, what's the likelihood that a WP-like mode might ever appear in OOo? Given OOo's native format is XML-based, a WP-style `reveal codes' might be possible to implement. I mostly use Vim/LaTeX these days, but when I have to do WYSIWYG word processing, I miss WP.
In principio creauit Linus Linucem.
I wonder what would happen if you were to tell the telemarketers that you are on your state's No Call List and that they can be fined $25,000 per incident for calling you. EVEN IF YOUR STATE DOESNT HAVE A LIST, I think you could bluff them into leaving you alone. I'd try it, but I actually am on a No Call List.
Don't moderate flamebait as Troll. Know the difference or you will be Meta-moderated.
Have you met my mother? If you have, you'd know there's just some things she doesn't need to know, and other people don't need to be able to tell her.
Privacy is the ability to force people to make decisions about you based only on the information YOU want them to have. And I like my privacy very much, thank you.
paintball
Someone needs to find out the contact info for these Castle, Inc guys. Post it to Slashdot. Then we start signing them up for all the junk mail they can handle. Maybe everyone on /. can take a turn making fake calls to their offices requesting information on their services. Tie up all their lines and people dealing with a huge crapflood of angry geeks. Seems fitting.
What are you, Michael Jackson? Yeesh.
Why the fuck do collection agencies (or anyone for that matter) think they have a right to get through to you on the phone?
Well, it worked for me, anyway.
1. Telemarketers never call my cell phone (seems to be a common phenomenon, and I hope it stays that way). Yay! So now I just have a cell phone and no direct line. I suppose this doesn't work for everyone, and you have to find some other way to get Internet (like cable), but it worked for me.
2. Before cable was available, we had a phone line. And since once in a while it came in handy, we didn't turn off the ringer. Thus I learned that there is a moment of silence between when the autodialer detects that you answered the phone and when your call gets picked up by a telemarketroid. This is your golden opportunity to hang up before you get caught up in a conversation you don't want to have. Pick up the phone, keep a finger on the hook, say hello, and if you hear dead silence, hang up immediately. (If you made a mistake, they'll call back!)
Time flies like an arrow. Fruit flies like a banana.
So, wait, Peter.. that means that a copy machine, water tower, and microwave are the remaining assets at FAST. Thanks for clearing that up!
Some X, Y and Z values (note that I don't agree with all these statments (just some), but they're spouted often enough anyway):
And finally
Am I the only one who thought "why are debt collectors using war diallers"?
I have a very common name and I once had a particularly nasty debt collector on my back over some bozo's AmEx debt. My name is common enough that I suspect this agency simply picked my name out of the book. They called once, I called back, left a message (no these aren't the droids you're looking for). They ignored it. Then they proceeded to call every week during the day [so I was at work] and harrassed my wife, eventually threatening her with legal action. I can't help wondering how often this must happen.
So now they use war diallers so they can go through all the people with the same name as their debtor - hell, sooner or later they're *bound* to find the right chap!
Yeah, this invention is *much* safer in the hands of debt collectors than telemarketers. Not.
No fscking way! I am on every "Don't Call" list I can find. They have no right to bug me at home!
They are the ones being dicks. The GD telemarketing industry says they don't want to call people who don't want to be called. That is bullshit. They work to get around any tech blocking method.
I say let Bun-Bun have their asses!
lest someone discover exactly how truly boring I am!
Actually, WordPerfect's UI was far superior to OpenOffice's (though OpenOffice's text handling is much better). It's a shame that Corel has left WordPerfect to stagnate all these years.
Gee, the anti-telezapper device sounds like a security defeating technology to me. Anybody care to try DMCA? (Yes, it's a BIG stretch, but why the hell not? Might get them lobbying against the DMCA...)
I should have remembered about the single calling computer. One of my friends once told me that it was possible to screw with the telemarketers by simply setting the phone down, and not hanging it up. Because they have no actual control over their own phone line, the telemarketer is supposedly unable to do anything without sending for a supervisor to disconnect the line.
Anybody care to confirm/deny this one? It'd be cool to find out more; anything we can do to make telemarketing less cost-effective is a bonus in my book.
~SL
Here's a twist on that scenario, though: For months now I've been receiving RECORDED telemarketer calls again, which I thought were to supposed to be illegal by Federal statute (right?); there's no human involved in the call at all. If you're right that it's the receiver of a call who has control of termination (I can never recall which it is), refusing to hang up would hafta be especially ugly in this case because there's no one listening on their end! It could be quite a long time before their telecom guru figured out what was wrong....
That's what a trial is for -- never mind that it would probably ruin any of us normal folks.
They can bite me.
Who wants to talk to the POTUS? But apparently lots of people will talk to former Nigerian presidents.
The LA Times is probably calling all numbers in the area code/exchanges for their circulation area. Since the average person in LA gets one such call a week, about 5% of new subscribers would get such a call within 4 hours. So you had slightly worse than usual luck.