Slashdot Mirror


China's 64bit Homegrown CPU

An anonymous reader writes: "EE Times is reporting on China's BLX IC Design Corp nearing the completion of their first 64-bit CPU. Based on the MIPS instruction set the 500-MHz Godson-2 microprocessor is aimed toward distributed grid computing. To avoid MIPS patent issues, several instructions (unaligned loads and storeds in the 32 bit version) have not been implemented but with the support of over 60 software providers such as Red Flag Linux and the ability to tweak compilers to not use these instructions this should not be a problem. The Godson-1 processor (also patent free) was announced last year and was aimed at the embedded market." The Godson processor line has generally been called Dragon by the Western press.

353 comments

  1. Comment removed by account_deleted · · Score: 5, Informative

    Comment removed based on user account deletion

  2. Nice architecture by PD · · Score: 1, Insightful

    Couldn't do any better than to choose the MIPS instruction set. I looked at it years ago and was impressed with its clean design.

    1. Re:Nice architecture by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      oh boy! you're so smart!

      can you look up something else for me (like, maybe LISP) and be impressed with its clean design too?

    2. Re:Nice architecture by Bender_ · · Score: 3, Informative
      Couldn't do any better than to choose the MIPS instruction set. I looked at it years ago and was impressed with its clean design

      Thats no wonder - it was refined during years of research by Henessey and Patterson.

      However if you look close you will notice that the instruction set does also contain some obselete legacy. For example branch delay slots do not make any sense with OOO Architectures. It is also questionable whether wasting quite a bit of instruction space for integer arithmetic both with and without overflow trapping is worth it. Maybe the could just have used the extra space for a proper move instruction so R0 is freed.

    3. Re:Nice architecture by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Sorry to nitpick, but it is spelled Hennessy, like the cognac but not french.

    4. Re:Nice architecture by PD · · Score: 1

      Yes, LISP has a nice clean design too. Glad you brought it up.

    5. Re:Nice architecture by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Well, I'd say that the Alpha instruction set is much cleaner than the MIPS instruction set, not to mention natively 32-bit.

      Especially considering that it doesn't expose branch delay slots in the ISA like the MIPS. Sure, it probably made sense initially when it was actually a feature of the implementation, but you have to simulate it anyhow as soon as you make significant changes to the pipeline design.

    6. Re:Nice architecture by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Duh, obviously I meant that the Alpha is 64-bit...preview...preview...preview!

  3. Of course, here in the US... by Doctor+Memory · · Score: 0, Offtopic

    ...our dragons have balls!

    --
    Just junk food for thought...
  4. Homecloned, you mean... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Interesting

    Taking an existing instruction set and removing stuff from it isn't exactly creative...

    1. Re:Homecloned, you mean... by PDXNerd · · Score: 1

      No, but you must give them a little credit for at least trying. Maybe they will use these chips in vehicles to help them mine the moon. :-)

      Let's say we are both in business. I steal a product from you, and though it is a bit behind yours technologically, it is still a viable product. Now, let's fast-forward 3 years. I'm still trying to clone your latest-and-greatest chip while you have in R&D a new design that I will, yet again, have to clone.

      It *may* reduce the profits of local MIPS chips, but it will always be a step-behind the "real" designs. (At least it says they are trying to follow the patent laws, which we know many Chinese companies really haven't cared much about in the past..)

    2. Re:Homecloned, you mean... by sporadek · · Score: 1

      Taking an existing instruction set and removing stuff from it isn't exactly creative... It may not be "creative", but I'm sure there are lots of people happy to use OpenOffice, even though it has only taken an existing file format and removed some features (bloat).

    3. Re:Homecloned, you mean... by sketerpot · · Score: 1
      If China manages to crank these out cheaply the way they do with plastic action figures, they may be able to sell a lot to people who want something fast enough for their purposes but most of all cheap.

      For example: a MAME cabinet.

    4. Re:Homecloned, you mean... by Fig,+formerly+A.C. · · Score: 1

      In both cases the biggest benefit is being free of other people's licensing.

      --
      Murphy was an optimist.
    5. Re:Homecloned, you mean... by geekoid · · Score: 1

      however, processor have gotten to the point where a step behind isn't so bad.
      I mean would you buy a 4GHz chip for 300 dollars, or a 3.5GHz chip for 50 dollars?
      This Mgahertz race should have stopped at 1 GHz. at that point it was fast enought to run anything for the end user. They should have been focused on throughput. Cycles would still increase, but no as dramatically, but the system would be doing more per second.
      Hopefully this will awaken Intel and AMD.

      --
      The Kruger Dunning explains most post on /. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning%E2%80%93Kruger_effect
    6. Re:Homecloned, you mean... by Deflatamouse! · · Score: 1

      > They should have been focused on throughput.

      And they are. Newer processors *are* doing more per second. What do you think this 'Ghz' number is (indirectly) measuring?

      > Hopefully this will awaken Intel and AMD.

      Awaken them from what?

      Doing more per second while maintaining the same clock speed is harder to achieve than doing the same per cycle and doing more cycles per second. The former requires some sort of shift in paradigm in how a programmer (or at least a compiler) writes a program. And actually, this is being attempted in IA-64's EPIC/VLIW architecture.

    7. Re:Homecloned, you mean... by be-fan · · Score: 1

      This Megahertz race should have stopped at 1 GHz.
      >>>>>>>>>>>>
      And your proof would be? Every try using a *real* program, or even a game? People do more than just Word + Excel + Email you know. Hell, you programmer people should be able to understand this! GCC takes nearly 10 seconds just to compile Hello World in C++. Processors are not *nearly* fast enough.

      They should have been focused on throughput.
      >>>>>>>>
      Throughput = Instructions_Per_Cycle * Cycles_Per_Second. Improving one term isn't any better than improving the other. However, improving IPC is *very* difficult, because most code simply isn't parallel enough. That's why the P4 actually has *less* integer units than a Pentium III, because the third unit just wasn't being kept busy enough to justify the silicon space.

      --
      A deep unwavering belief is a sure sign you're missing something...
    8. Re:Homecloned, you mean... by Doomdark · · Score: 1
      ... yeah, it's like somebody took an OS (unix) and just cloned its features, just renamed the results (linux). Who'd of thank?

      Interesting thing, however, is why they chose MIPS ISA over, say, Alpha? Both are reasonably clean RISC designs... perhaps it's just that MIPS is extensively documented in quite a few basic processor design books? Hell, even I had to design and implementation of the first MIPS processor in VHDL (for my proc. architectures course), and I'm not an EE major.

      --
      I like paying taxes. With them I buy civilization -- Oliver Wendell Holmes
    9. Re:Homecloned, you mean... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Uhh, the instruction set of a CPU isn't hard to design (unless you want to design something horribly complex like the IA-64), the implementation is.

      Most clean RISC architectures have very simple, straightforward instruction sets. Rolling your own rather than taking an existing one doesn't make much of a difference in terms of capabilities, and by using an existing instruction set you'll actually have the usual tools (compilers, assemblers) available without having to build them yourself.

  5. Re:Mirror by Isbiten · · Score: 2, Informative

    Copy pasted for you, my friend at Slashdot :D

    BEIJING -- Stay tuned: China's first homegrown CPU is about to go 64-bit.

    One of the country's most promising start-ups, BLX IC Design Corp., Ltd., told EE Times Wednesday (March 5) that it is closing in on a 500-MHz microprocessor that it will market toward China's leading server vendors, including Legend Group and Dawning Technology. It would eventually be positioned as the engine of a distributed grid computing network that will be used by public and private firms here.

    The chip is dubbed Godson-2 and is the follow-on to a 32-bit, 266-MHz version released last year that is aimed at the embedded systems market. Both chips are largely based on the MIPS instruction set, but are not fully compatible because they avoid the use of key instructions that would run afoul of MIPS patents.

    BLX has moved quickly to rally Chinese industry support around the architecture, launching an alliance that intends to attract 100 members and create 100 designs within two years. "We already have 60 companies and 15 designs so we are ahead of schedule," said David Shen, chief executive of BLX. "We have started working with Haier, which is the biggest consumer manufacturer in China, and they need a lot of chips."

    All of the 60 companies that have joined are Chinese firms, Shen said, and they range from upstream hardware makers, to consumer giants like Haier, and software providers Red Flag Linux and Great Wall Software Co.

    Godson-2, which has also been translated into English as Dragon or Longxin, has already been prototyped. Samples are expected to roll in the first half of next year. The chip will be binary backward compatible to the 32-bit Godson-1, a path of compatibility first chosen by Advanced Micro Devices in development of its Opteron line.

    Some of the improvements over Godson-1 include a four-issue super-scaler architecture, dynamic branch prediction and a non-blocking cache design to allow for multiple misses in the memory array. The chip will probably be made on a 0.18-micron process at Taiwan Semiconductor Manufacturing Co., although Shanghai's Semiconductor Manufacturing International Corp. is also being considered.

    Planning for Godson-3

    Even though Godson-2 hasn't been officially rolled out, researchers at the Institute of Computing Technology (ICT), a government research group that first designed the Godson architecture before licensing it to BLX, are already thinking about a Godson-3. The core design will be similar. But more features should improve its standing.

    "By the end of next year, we hope we can add in multiprocessor support and on-chip secondary cache. If these features are added, the power consumption may be around 10 watts," said Tang Zhimin, a senior ICT engineer who headed up the Godson project. The power budget for Godson-2 is around 5 watts, based on a 1.8V core and 3.3V I/O.

    Also under consideration are SIMD for multimedia processing and multithreading support. "We are also looking at how to integrate multithreading with our current superscalar architecture," Tang said.

    --
    I fought the corporate America, and the corporate America bought the law.
  6. US or online vendors? by intermodal · · Score: 4, Interesting

    I wouldnt mind playing around with some of these. Also: how is availability here or in china for related hardware and motherboards?

    --
    In SOVIET RUSSIA... erm...NSA AMERICA, the Internet logs onto YOU!
    1. Re:US or online vendors? by ShadowDrake · · Score: 2, Interesting

      My thoughts exactly. Sounds like it could be a viable C3 competitor-- cheap and cool-running, and Linux-friendly, with the added benefit of being able to slap "64-bit" on the label.

      I'll try any architecture once....

      --
      It's just like a fascist dictatorship, without the punctual rail service!
    2. Re:US or online vendors? by intermodal · · Score: 2, Interesting

      plus its got the cache to be worthwhile. I find myself presently switching to a dual Pentium Pro because the my 900 MHz Duron has such a small cache that compiling is too bloody slow. These as it said in the article have 1MB of cache. Let's see someone else match that on an inexpensive chip.

      --
      In SOVIET RUSSIA... erm...NSA AMERICA, the Internet logs onto YOU!
    3. Re:US or online vendors? by hirschma · · Score: 1

      This article has a bit more information about who is likely to start selling stuff with this chip. FYI.

    4. Re:US or online vendors? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      How the hell do you get modded up 5 points for that crap ass post? You must be ummmm...pleasuring the write people GFYS

    5. Re:US or online vendors? by intermodal · · Score: 1

      Beats me. I was just hoping to have someone tell me some information. I would have called it +1 interesting -2 overrated, myself.

      --
      In SOVIET RUSSIA... erm...NSA AMERICA, the Internet logs onto YOU!
  7. DRM? by supabeast! · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Hopefully the Chinese will leave DRM out of their chips and give people looking for a "free" CPU a competitive option to the crippled intel/AMD CPUs.

    1. Re:DRM? by stratjakt · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Of course, I assume you're using the DRM buzzword to describe TCPA, which is something different entirely.

      But how would a chinese chip with no DRM be any different from an Intel chip with DRM disabled?

      --
      I don't need no instructions to know how to rock!!!!
    2. Re:DRM? by binaryDigit · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Hopefully the Chinese will leave DRM out of their chips and give people looking for a "free" CPU a competitive option to the crippled intel/AMD CPUs.

      How are Intel and/or AMD chips "crippled"? Are you referring to cpu id's? How would the "Dragon" be "free" and how could it be competitive running at 500mhz?

      Of course there is the ultimate irony of using DRM and China in the same sentence.

    3. Re:DRM? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      the chinese CPU will not be free, moron, you will still have to pay for it. crap I thought that was obvious.

    4. Re:DRM? by supabeast! · · Score: 2, Insightful

      "Of course, I assume you're using the DRM buzzword to describe TCPA, which is something different entirely."

      I meant DRM in general. Palladium, TCPA, or just processor ID numbers.

      "But how would a chinese chip with no DRM be any different from an Intel chip with DRM disabled?"

      It's the slippery-slope theory. intel chips might allow you to disable DRM at first, and then just make it mandatory at some point. Buying from a manufacturer that leaves it out entirely means that other companies always have to keep that competitor in mind.

    5. Re:DRM? by supabeast! · · Score: 4, Insightful

      "How are Intel and/or AMD chips "crippled"?"

      They will be when DRM becomes mandatory.

      "...how could it be competitive running at 500mhz?"

      Intel thought the same thing about AMD for a long time. Then the K6-2/450 was released, it sold like crazy, and AMD actually beat intel in sales for one quarter. After that intel startking kicking their R&D's ass to get better CPUs out quicker, because competion had kicked in. It might take a while, but the Chinese have plenty of resources, and they WILL get to a point where their CPUs are competitive with American CPUs.

    6. Re:DRM? by cheezedawg · · Score: 0, Troll

      You could always buy an Apple to avoid supporting a government with one of the worst human rights records today. Just a thought.

      I also don't buy your argument that DRM cripples a CPU. DRM technologies are a valuable tool for developers. Just like other tools, they can be used for good things and for bad things, but DRM itself is not inherently bad.

      To me your post looks like nothing more that buzzword whoring.

      --
      "The defense of freedom requires the advance of freedom" - George W Bush
    7. Re:DRM? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The Chinese have no need for DRM.

      Analog Rights Management, in the form of bullets dispensed by firing squad, has served them well and they see no need to fix what isn't broken.

    8. Re:DRM? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You honestly think Apple will be non-compliant? Do you think that's air you're breathing?

    9. Re:DRM? by Waffle+Iron · · Score: 1
      But how would a chinese chip with no DRM be any different from an Intel chip with DRM disabled?

      In the future there will be no difference. They'll both be illegal.

    10. Re:DRM? by gregorio · · Score: 1
      Hopefully the Chinese will leave DRM out of their chips and give people looking for a "free" CPU a competitive option to the crippled intel/AMD CPUs.
      This is an Embedded CPU, not a desktop CPU. You can't change CPUs like you change socks, this chip will never be a "competitive option" because there is no interest at all in creating desktop motherboards for this CPU, just for anti-DRM people.

      BTW, DRM is about content providing, if all content is published exclusively under DRM-enabled formats, your Dragon PC will be "crippled" too, and Intel and AMD CPUs will have more "features" (will be able to decode the data) than your Dragon PC.
    11. Re:DRM? by stratjakt · · Score: 3, Interesting

      >> They will be when DRM becomes mandatory.

      I get tired of hearing that phrase. Do you really think the government is going to mandate TCPA technology? Yeah I know some crackpot sponsored a bill, but it was long since blown out of the water.

      That is, however, something that's very likely in China.

      As for Intel/AMD/VIA/Transmeta/IBM/Motorola, you think they'll all conspire together against you to make sure you use TCPA? They're competitors. If Intel made TCPA platforms that couldnt be disabled, AMD would pick up 100% of the market that doesnt want it.

      It just doesnt make any sense why people are so eager trust the Chinese govermnent as if they're some kind of savior for freedom of thought. I'd be very wary of what the Red Chinese would like to force into everyones desktop box.

      --
      I don't need no instructions to know how to rock!!!!
    12. Re:DRM? by binaryDigit · · Score: 1

      Intel thought the same thing about AMD for a long time ..... but the Chinese have plenty of resources, and they WILL get to a point where their CPUs are competitive with American CPUs

      We haven't even seen performance #'s with these chips. To think that they could go from copying a 500mhz chip to producing chips that can keep up with 3ghz x86 chips (and this is assuming that the x86 market stands still for a few years) seems to me a bit of a stretch. I just believe that they have the tech horsepower yet to be that competitive.

    13. Re:DRM? by zmooc · · Score: 4, Informative
      DRM functionality on a CPU does not cripple anything. It's the encryption of the media that may cripple the functionality you may have with regard to data from others. And it's the software/OS that has the option to use it.

      DRM only adds functionality like controlling what recipients are to allow to do with emails - just disable any functionality to forward emails which contain confidential data. Don't want others to use your picture for other purposes than viewing it on your website? Possible. Lost your Palm with those rather private pictures on it? No problem. And ofcourse digital media will no longer be copyable directly... but digital media will become a lot cheaper sometime in the future - the price is mainly due to the expensive technology used to create them; expensive studios, 3D-software, special-fx-software, videocamera's etc. are expensive but get cheaper and cheaper. This will not only drive the price of the media down (which will definately raise the volume) but bring a lot more on the market since it'll become a lot cheaper to make things for everyone. Especially with bandwith getting cheaper.

      Now the things that you DO have to fear:

      • DRM incompatibilities between different systems - you may need a lot of different plugins in that case... this may happen if e.g. Real first starts adding DRM to their realmedia, MS then comes up with their own passport-based shit and then finally some standards committee comes up with an open standard which is way too late
      • Closed standards - if Real of MS or whoever comes up with a closed standard which will only be available by using their software, us Linux users will be fucked. This may well happen since most average windows-using internetuser won't hesitate to install all this software and therefore market-penetraion won't be a problem as long as the software is free.
      • Patents on DRM-systems - Open Source would be locked out then. At least in the USA.
      • DRM becoming a requirement before about everybody has the hardware. And then still your old PC won't be able to open DRM-protected media since it a secure data-path has to be built into just about everything from the memory and the CPU all the way to the last peripherals.
      • DRM forcing no-fast-forward on you so you have to watch all the commercials.
      • Data-recovery not being though about - losing data due to a lost key or something would be bad. Something to solve this problem should be implemented. With regard to history in the future this will also be really important; without it the 21st century will be a very dark age in history!
      • The government or some large company having master-keys.
      • Expensive audits required to check for leaks driving the price of hardware (which will get a lot more complex anyway) up.
      • The first DRM-hardware like speakers and LCD-monitors not using wireless transmission by default:) For a really safe data-path, the DRM-decription hardware will have to be in your speakers and monitor so let's hope a wireless receiver will be built on the DRM-chip by default so we'll get cheap wireless peripherals and won't need all those cables anymore:) (everyhing will have to be powered, though. At least it'll safe CPU-cycles:)

      And then offcourse one can still record the analog output of the tv, monitor or speakers but for many applications it'd be really usefull, however.

      --
      0x or or snor perron?!
    14. Re:DRM? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Most of Apple's parts come from China. Those lovely gay environment-friendly peace loving cases are assembled with slave labor.

    15. Re:DRM? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Americans buying Chinese CPUs to protect their civil liberties? Now that would be rich...

      On the other hand, you never know what they might do.

    16. Re:DRM? by g4dget · · Score: 1
      How would the "Dragon" be "free" and how could it be competitive running at 500mhz?

      It's for grid/cluster computing. As long as it's sufficiently cheaper than other processors relative to its performance, that's fine. And if it has good power consumption, you can put a lot of them into a small space. And 64 bit support is important in and of itself; I'd buy an Athlon64 today even if it cost the same as an AthlonXP and ran more slowly.

    17. Re:DRM? by jbridge21 · · Score: 1

      How are Intel and/or AMD chips "crippled"? Are you referring to cpu id's?

      Both the upcoming Hammer series as well as Intel chips starting with the Centrino will be "featuring" the necessary hardware for MS's Palladium scheme.

    18. Re:DRM? by poot_rootbeer · · Score: 2, Insightful

      They will be when DRM becomes mandatory.

      IF. Not when, IF.

      Don't be such a fatalist.

    19. Re:DRM? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      But 64 500Mhz processors?

    20. Re:DRM? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Nothing like good old-fashioned USA communist-paranoia!

      Mmmm, just like Mom used to make!

      -- I gotta be ready if the commies attack us tonight --

    21. Re:DRM? by Daniel+Phillips · · Score: 2, Interesting

      To think that they could go from copying a 500mhz chip to producing chips that can keep up with 3ghz x86 chips (and this is assuming that the x86 market stands still for a few years) seems to me a bit of a stretch.

      Funny, I recall almost precisely the same thing being said about Japanese dram production, round about the time of 16K (that's bits) drams.

      --
      Have you got your LWN subscription yet?
    22. Re:DRM? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Do you really think such comments constitute paranoia? The PRC regime is a very ugly one, and is perhaps responsible for more deaths than even the Soviet regime. These two are unquestionably the most murderous regimes that have ever existed, but there is debate over which of them killed more people than the other.

      China may reform itself over time, in the way that other fascist states (e.g. Spain, Chile) have, but such internal reform has not even begun yet, and there is no guarantee that it ever will (although I hope and believe it will).

    23. Re:DRM? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Do you really think such comments constitute paranoia?

      Comments mentioning fear of the Chinese Government trying to force software onto every computer? Why, yes. Yes I do.

      That sort of crap would be spotted and broadcast all over the net within days. Hours even.

      Anyway, from where I'm sitting, it doesn't look like China or Russia is any more or less guilty of killing masses than the USA. ISTR reading somewhere that the US has one of the highest child-execution counts.

    24. Re:DRM? by kcelery · · Score: 1

      What DRM? I have never heard of any port of BSOD from Redemond. M$ has not make much money selling windows in China, why would they even consider porting any product to this Godson stuff. So where does this DRM issue comes from?

    25. Re:DRM? by jericho4.0 · · Score: 1

      A MIPS instruction set chip, running a 500mhz, and drawing 5 watts?? Sounds pretty competitive already. You might not be in the market for one for your computer, but others wil find those kind of specs very interesting.

      --
      "A language that doesn't affect the way you think about programming, is not worth knowing" - Alan Perlis
    26. Re:DRM? by Doomdark · · Score: 1
      and how could it be competitive running at 500mhz?

      It is entirely possible to do totally different design trade-offs if raw computing power is not THE goal. So, although this is just speculation, here are some potential improvements it could offer:

      • Lower power consumption, meaning easier cooling. Quiet systems without CPU fans, embedded devices.
      • Lower price. Cheaper systems, esp. embedded devices.
      • Due to lower power consumption, longer life-span for CPU (plus higher reliability).
      • Simpler interface design, to allow simpler (and cheaper) motherboard design (compare to development of more and more complicated sockets for modern CPUs, required by higher clockspeeds)
      • Smaller chip size, allowing tighter integration (embedded devices)

      Basically it all comes down to this: for most things, any modern CPU (even one that runs at 500mhz) is enough. Thus, 3Ghz Octium shouldn't be much more interesting than 0.5Ghz Dragon (if it wasn't for advertising). And if raw CPU power is meaningless, currently "secondary" things like price and power consumption could become real factors in designing what to use.

      --
      I like paying taxes. With them I buy civilization -- Oliver Wendell Holmes
    27. Re:DRM? by rela · · Score: 1
      Don't be such a fatalist.

      A pessimist is rarely disappointed. We'll have to see, but I think the slide has begun. Perhaps it won't come to the breaking point within our lifetimes, but we'll have to see.

    28. Re:DRM? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Do you really think such comments constitute paranoia?
      Comments mentioning fear of the Chinese Government trying to force software onto every computer? Why, yes. Yes I do.


      Such a view is naïve. A regime which censors its citizens' access to the Internet would have no compunction about requiring its PC manufacturers to embed hardware and/or software to, for example, more reliably implement its censorship policies. It is in principle the same thing, and if it were practicable, the PRC regime would surely do it.

      Naturally the PRC regime is not the only regime that censors Internet access, but censorship in Western countries is typically very limited, and concerned with preventing the return of totalitarianism (e.g. the banning of Nazi propaganda), and ensuring the civil liberties of all (incl. dissidents) are protected. This contrasts with pervasive censorship in the PRC, which is aimed at supressing all dissent, and carried out in an environment without any protection of civil liberties. Although I oppose both forms of political censorship, I see a very clear moral difference between them.

      That sort of crap would be spotted and broadcast all over the net within days. Hours even.

      It is well known that the PRC regime censors Internet access in China, in order to silence opposition to its rule. This widespread knowledge hasn't ended such censorship, and similar activity at the PC rather than the ISP level would not likely be stopped by knowledge of its existence either.

      Anyway, from where I'm sitting, it doesn't look like China or Russia is any more or less guilty of killing masses than the USA. ISTR reading somewhere that the US has one of the highest child-execution counts.

      Since you seem to think the USA represents the moral standard by which all other countries should be judged, you may find this link helpful in learning about how American mass killing compares to that of the Soviet and PRC regimes: http://users.erols.com/mwhite28/war-1900.htm

      For those of us without such an opinion, the mass killing of millions by the PRC regime, the imprisonment and execution of dissidents, the complete disregard for civil liberties and the colonisation of Tibet constitute sufficient grounds to oppose it, irrespective of whatever the USA may or may not have done.

  8. Comment removed by account_deleted · · Score: 2

    Comment removed based on user account deletion

  9. Pff. by grub · · Score: 3, Funny


    64 bits? Maybe now someone will actually be able to calculate how much tea is meant when someone says "..all the tea in China".

    --
    Trolling is a art,
    1. Re:Pff. by Mr.+Sketch · · Score: 1

      Actually, it's just so they can calculate how many yen they have in their bank account.

    2. Re:Pff. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Funny

      thats japan you spastic

    3. Re:Pff. by commodoresloat · · Score: 1

      Nah; this is so they can calculate how long it will take to mine on the moon.

    4. Re:Pff. by Cumstien · · Score: 2, Funny

      To really prove its power, the chip would have to demonstrate that it has "all the tea in China" and "none of the tea in China" at the same time.

      That and someone would have to write a bunch of 64 bit software.

    5. Re:Pff. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yen is Japanese you dolt

    6. Re:Pff. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      wow, an educated man
      please use Yen in China, I would love to see them beat the phock out of you

  10. China's Chip by hhawk · · Score: 5, Interesting

    I think this shows 3 points

    1) Free and easily ported OS allows them to have a reasonable non-standard processors.

    2) US restrictions on exporting high powered chips and other computer parts are easily diluted by open standards.

    3) Test, over time, in the market place the use of cheap open chips vs. more expensive perhaps more cutting edge chips (from the west). Do you use 1 or 2 AMD or Intel chips costing 700 USD or 5 or 6 Dragon/Godson 2 chips costing? $5 or $50 (etc).

    Re #3, an engineer can tell you which is "best" but only the market can pick the real winner.

    --
    http://www.hawknest.com/
    1. Re:China's Chip by binaryDigit · · Score: 3, Insightful

      1) Free and easily ported OS allows them to have a reasonable non-standard processors.

      Agreed. One of the reasons I love NetBSD.

      2) US restrictions on exporting high powered chips and other computer parts are easily diluted by open standards.

      Well I don't know if I'd call a watered down 500mhz MIPS based chip "high powered". Maybe once you lash 128 of them together you'll have a decently powered box, but individually, it's way less than yesterdays tech.

      3) Test, over time, in the market place the use of cheap open chips vs. more expensive perhaps more cutting edge chips (from the west). Do you use 1 or 2 AMD or Intel chips costing 700 USD or 5 or 6 Dragon/Godson 2 chips costing? $5 or $50 (etc).

      Not a good comparison I think. It costs $200 RETAIL for an Athlon 2400MP. Now home much supporting chips, power, etc would you need to put together 5 of those Dragons to get at the same fudged clock rate, assuming of course you're doing things that a parallizable enough to counter the loss in raw clock rate. There are other "non open" chips that are alternatives that cost less/run cooler/etc. I don't see how an "Open" chip helps at all here. Plus how is the Dragon "open"? They "steal" another companies tech and explicitly work around any licensing issues. That's "open"?

    2. Re:China's Chip by hhawk · · Score: 1

      All very good points. And I must say I largely agree with you today..

      I'm thinking more over the next few years. The newest hotest chips tend to be in the $700 to $1000 range (USD) at release. Godson 2 if I read correctly doen't have multi processor support yet, etc.

      All i'm saying is this is something that will be, at some point in time, tested in the market place and that is a good thing.

      --
      http://www.hawknest.com/
    3. Re:China's Chip by NovaX · · Score: 1

      1. Better way of saying it:
      MIPS is taught in almost every computer architecture course, is well understood, and already has a following abd design standards for embedded to enterprise level, and the port was done previously for similar chips. The ease to build a MIPS cpu and existing software base is likely more important.

      2. Dragon is not a high-performance chip. However US chips are expensive at even low-end in China's currency. This chip, while not speedy, is cheap and extremely easy to design off of.

      3. Not all processes can be distrubted well. It depends entirely on the task and on the architecture. A large multiprocessor system needs a good bus. A shared-bus will saturate but is cheap, a point-to-point is expensive but better. These are embedded CPUs, so a good multiprocessor system isn't likely. A distributed system is possible, but not resonable for most tasks and the software is very complex.

      Their market will pick it because it will be cheap, pushed by the government, and the West doesn't have a stronghold. Many embedded chips are extremely cheap already and most companies wont make the switch due to power players and more confidence in availablity (can complain to a company, can't to China).

      --

      "Open Source?" - Press any key to continue
    4. Re:China's Chip by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Informative

      Actually, MIPS asm _is_ an open standard and they were careful to not use the few instructions that were covered by patents.

    5. Re:China's Chip by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      When was the last time you got a 500 MHz MIPS chip? This is a step up for the architecture, if it were MIPS, which it ain't.

    6. Re:China's Chip by Michael_Burton · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Well I don't know if I'd call a watered down 500mhz MIPS based chip "high powered". Maybe once you lash 128 of them together you'll have a decently powered box, but individually, it's way less than yesterdays tech.

      I'm wondering how many computer users need the power of 128 64-bit CPUs to get their work done? On the desktop, my own observation has been that most of the raw CPU power growth during the past several years is being used for entertainment or GUI eye candy.

      Certainly, there is a class of computable problems that comes in reach only with lots and lots of CPU horsepower. But to dismiss this CPU, created at this early stage in China's development as a chip-maker, seems short-sighted. This CPU will be useful for lots of tasks. And we haven't heard the last of these guys.

      --
      When all you have is an axe, everything looks like a grindstone.
    7. Re:China's Chip by tetra103 · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Wholy crap! Here's a most informative post that dismisses half of all these garbage posts...and it gets modded down to a 0? Once again, you slashdot moderators are morons!!!! Point and case...China took an open standard and implemented it. I commend them for using an open standard. Would it have been better that they created their own bastardized microcode language? Instead of you fools ripping on China for *stealing* someones idea, maybe you should be ripping on Intel for continuing to make ugly ass processors. I can't say anything bad about AMD since they at least try bring order to the ugly world of Intel.

    8. Re:China's Chip by Thud457 · · Score: 1
      Can we call this architecture "I can't believe it's not MIPS"?!!!
      Pleeeeeeassssse?!!!

      (Or how about "I can't believe it's not patent infringement"?)

      --

      the preceding comment is my own and in no way reflects the opinion of the Joint Chiefs of Staff

    9. Re:China's Chip by Doomdark · · Score: 1
      2) US restrictions on exporting high powered chips and other computer parts are easily diluted by open standards.

      Well I don't know if I'd call a watered down 500mhz MIPS based chip "high powered". Maybe once you lash 128 of them together you'll have a decently powered box, but individually, it's way less than yesterdays tech.

      You are ignoring his point, though; export restrictions aren't aimed at preventing "power users" in China from getting fastest running single-processor system, but from building "super computers", that are without an exception (massively) multi-processor systems.

      And for such systems, distinction between 3 GHz vs. 500Mhz (assuming CPU power was directly proportional to clock rate) is not all that critical. Especially when you combine SMP with distributed systems.

      Then again, export controls don't really protect against this even without this new CPU; it'd be possible to use freely traded Intel/AMD chips as well. However, it may be easier to design the big system using these CPUs if/when they are properly designed for SMP systems (since x86 procs in general are not designed for bigger than, say, 4-way SMP systems).

      --
      I like paying taxes. With them I buy civilization -- Oliver Wendell Holmes
  11. Welcome to the future... by asparagus · · Score: 4, Interesting

    If you're one a million, there's a thousand people just like you in China.

    Even though massive portions of the Chinese population are poor farmers, the contingent that has adopted the Internet is (as a result of being a smaller portion of a larger population) far beyond their US counterparts.

    The Internet allows for capitalism on global scale to be much easier. Up until now, the US has maintained the lead by appropriating the smartest people from other countries (H1-B's, etc.).

    However, we're about to see the trailing edge of this trend, where the smart kids stay at home. Already, one of the top 4 software development groups is based in India.

    To all you genius programmers: you're good. But are you good enough to outhack half a dozen Chinese guys working for half your salary?

    I predict that within 10 years, half the US programming market will have gone to these overseas firms.

    Anybody have any current data on this trend?

    -Brett

    1. Re:Welcome to the future... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Informative

      To all you genius programmers: you're good. But are you good enough to outhack half a dozen Chinese guys working for half your salary?

      I predict that within 10 years, half the US programming market will have gone to these overseas firms.


      Been there, done that.


      Ed Yourdon's "Decline and Fall of the American Programmer"

      and the sequel

      Rise & Resurrection of the American Programmer

    2. Re:Welcome to the future... by squant0 · · Score: 0, Offtopic

      In A.D. 2101
      War was beginning.
      Captain: What happen ?
      Mechanic: Somebody set up us the bomb
      Operator: We get signal
      Captain: What !
      Operator: Main screen turn on
      Captain: It's You !!
      Cats: How are you gentlemen !!
      Cats: All your base are belong to us
      Cats: You are on the way to destruction
      Captain: What you say !!
      Cats: You have no chance to survive make your time
      Cats: HA HA HA HA ....
      Captain: Take off every 'zig'
      Captain: You know what you doing
      Captain: Move 'zig'
      Captain: For great justice

    3. Re:Welcome to the future... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Informative

      Right here.

    4. Re:Welcome to the future... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Informative

      I predict that within 10 years, the living expenses of an average Chinese guy will have doubled, as well as his salary expectations. Ditto about ours... :/

    5. Re:Welcome to the future... by gillbates · · Score: 1

      Even though you're a little OT, I agree with you completely. I'm only a year into IS, and I'm already looking for another career. Within my lifetime, programmers will be paid minimum wage...

      --
      The society for a thought-free internet welcomes you.
    6. Re:Welcome to the future... by Joe+the+Lesser · · Score: 1

      That's okay, when I lose my job to the Chinese I'll just become an Open Source coder on welfare.

      --
      "I only speak the truth"
      Karma: null(Mostly affected by an unassigned variable)
    7. Re:Welcome to the future... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
      I have no idea what the point of this post was.

      but I still thought it was funny.

      you have a gift.

    8. Re:Welcome to the future... by huenix · · Score: 1

      Within my lifetime, programmers will be paid minimum wage...

      Bull. Absolute bull. There are some subset of programmers that will be paid minimum wage. Web coders, people writing crap for the mass market, but true coders will always be in demand, and therefore be paid appropriately. Coding takes creativity, dedication and intuition. Along with the talent and brains to do the code itself. Don't fool anyone into thinking that anyone can write code.

    9. Re:Welcome to the future... by Brento · · Score: 1

      But are you good enough to outhack half a dozen Chinese guys working for half your salary?

      Considering that adds up to three times my salary, I think my job is safe.

      --
      What's your damage, Heather?
    10. Re:Welcome to the future... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Only if you're three times as good/productive as that group of six.

      You may well be, or maybe not.

    11. Re:Welcome to the future... by squant0 · · Score: 1

      Why thank you. Even though the mods don't think so. I was trying to make a pun as to when all the programmers are in China, we won't be able to understand what our programs are saying. Guess I offended someone?

    12. Re:Welcome to the future... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Don't put programming on such a high pedestal. You have an instruction set that is finite, and there are only so many ways a task can be accomplished. It's like any other job. Some people are better at it than others, but almost anyone can be trained to do it.

    13. Re:Welcome to the future... by Cyno · · Score: 1

      Oh yeah? Well I predict 2/3rds of the US programming market will dry up within the next 3 years because of Free Software. Capitalism just can't compete with freedom.

    14. Re:Welcome to the future... by vlad_petric · · Score: 3, Interesting
      The United States have been preaching "economical openness" for more than 2 decades now I think. "Do you want US aid? Open your economy ...". Quite a few times this worked against the country implementing the measure, but most of the times it worked well for the US (as its very competitive merchandise flooded those markets). There are some areas in which openness works against the US - like CS jobs.

      I believe that more and more jobs will be exported to India, but probably not China, because of the language barrier.

      Now I'm all for openness myself - I just believe that it *has* to be applied both ways.

      --

      The Raven

    15. Re:Welcome to the future... by rodgerd · · Score: 1

      Unfortunately for Chinese programmers, they live in a facist state. They can have all the salary expectations they like, but the local party officials have the guns.

    16. Re:Welcome to the future... by MisterFancypants · · Score: 1
      Only if you're three times as good/productive as that group of six.

      Are you on drugs, son? Cost/benefit wise he'd only have to be 1/3rd as good/productive as that group of six.

    17. Re:Welcome to the future... by p3d0 · · Score: 1

      Uh, where I come from, "half a dozen Chinese guys working for half your salary" adds up to half your salary. Now, if it was "...each working for half your salary" that's different.

      --
      Patrick Doyle
      I mod down every jackass who puts his moderation policy in his sig. Oh, wait a sec....
    18. Re:Welcome to the future... by tetra103 · · Score: 1

      I'm afraid you're wrong. I'll definitely agree that some people code better than others, but just because you code great, doesn't mean you'll keep that 6 figure salary. The time is rapidly approaching where having the best code doesn't matter. The bottom line is can we release marginal code and still make profit....

    19. Re:Welcome to the future... by tetra103 · · Score: 1

      Oh yeah...good vision of the future...let's all write code for free...oh wait...I'm hungry now...

    20. Re:Welcome to the future... by Jord · · Score: 1

      Then you would be quite wrong. Considering that most programming done in the United States is for specialized in-house applications, Open Source won't touch that for a long time, if ever.

    21. Re:Welcome to the future... by floop · · Score: 1

      We have all nationalities of programmers in the USA, not just Chinese. Why would you focus on people of just Chinese dessent?

    22. Re:Welcome to the future... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      No, moderators are just fundamentally stupid. They regularly mark trolls 'off-topic', and off-topics 'trolls'. They mod up opinions stated as fact because they agree with them, and mod down well-reasoned posts WITH EVIDENCE because they disagree.

    23. Re:Welcome to the future... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Why would you focus on people of just Chinese dessent?

      There no dissent in China! Chinese people verrrry happy. All the time smily. Reports of unrest are unfound in the complete.

      Thank you,
      Chinese Government.

    24. Re:Welcome to the future... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Obviously you have not been to China, while maybe true pre-80's, I suggest you visit Shanghai now and see how things have changed dramatically. Many people are getting rich in China right now while our US economy is going in the tank.

    25. Re:Welcome to the future... by Wolfkin · · Score: 1

      Oh yeah? Well I predict 2/3rds of the US programming market will dry up within the next 3 years because of Free Software. Capitalism just can't compete with freedom.

      Given that Free Software is typically also free as in beer, and therefore simply costs less than most non-Free alternatives, driving non-Free software out of the market in 2/3 cases will be a great example of the free market in action! Then the rest of us can move on to implementing new things, rather than wasting time writing the same things over and over.

      --
      Property law should use #'EQ, not #'EQUAL.
    26. Re:Welcome to the future... by Cyno · · Score: 1

      Let me guess. You still think its not possible to feed everyone on the planet using modern technology. Right?

      Did you know that everyone alive today is eating, which in turn keeps them alive. If a single copy of an operating system is worth the same amount of money as what it costs to feed a family for a month then by copying Linux I should be able feed myself and all my friends. If money is really worth that value, that price we place on things.

      But I got some news for ya, its not. Money isn't worth anything. And when all these capitalists and economists finally figure that out the proverbial shit will hit the fan.

    27. Re:Welcome to the future... by Cyno · · Score: 2, Interesting

      I sure hope you're right. Er, well, no I don't. I wouldn't mind the US maintaining its economic superiority over the rest of the world, but honestly I just don't trust most Americans or Capitalists to do what is right whenever the choice involves money. So although the alternative may be chaos for a few years, perhaps even decades, I'm more willing to give it a try than accept the word of these old politicians and CEOs who can't even think creatively enough to make use of all the technology developed in the last two years. I can only imagine how draconian our laws will get when tomorrow's technology becomes available to the public.

      Wireless networks have almost all ISPs and media companies extremely confused. They just don't know what to do with it or how. Its not their fault, they're just old an obsolete. I say it is time for them to be replaced by new groups of communists and teams and people working together to learn and teach and solve problems without a heirarchy, without a class system.

      Maybe something good for a change, instead of business as usual. Because there's just no love in capitalism. AOL will NEVER, AT&T will NEVER, SBC will NEVER provide broadband up and down until it is forced to by its competition, Free Software, Open Source, Communism, good people that want to share, whatever you want to call it.

    28. Re:Welcome to the future... by cellardoor · · Score: 1

      language barrier? I thought indians had their own language(s)?

    29. Re:Welcome to the future... by Jord · · Score: 1

      And all of that has abolutely nothing to do with the majoirity of programming jobs in the US being affected by Open Source software. OS Software is great for replacing proprietary applications at almost no cost but it will not replace all of the in house applications that most of the corporate world uses today. That software is written in house by staff programmers and contractors. Those jobs will not be replaced just because there is a free wordprocessor or operating system out there. They are apples and oranges in the programming world.

    30. Re:Welcome to the future... by Peter+Harris · · Score: 1

      I have to disagree with you here. More than 80% of all code is written not to sell but to use.

      If your company (like mine) needs agile systems and application development closely tied to business needs that are always changing, then it is going to need someone in-house (like me).

      And no way do I get a 6-figure salary, but I'm comfortable :) I am not threatened in the least: because one good coder cannot be replaced by 6 average coders, even if they are in total cheaper.

      They will take 6 times as long, lack clarity of understanding in the problem domain, and their code will suck like a neutron star.

      This is also why I love Free software and don't care if I never get paid to write software for sale - I will always get paid OK to write software for use, and Free software gives me many more options for getting it done.

      --

      -- What do you need?
      -- Gnus. Lots of Gnus.
    31. Re:Welcome to the future... by Peter+Harris · · Score: 1

      But they speak and write English better on average than /. posters.

      --

      -- What do you need?
      -- Gnus. Lots of Gnus.
    32. Re:Welcome to the future... by vlad_petric · · Score: 1

      Right, but their higher education system is all in english.

      --

      The Raven

    33. Re:Welcome to the future... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Not a bad idea. Scrounging for RAM and a new sound card in the bargain bin at the thrift store, standing in line for food stamps. Being on welfare in a dystopian world while writing OSS code has kind of a cool Gibsonian neuromancerish feel to it.

    34. Re:Welcome to the future... by cduffy · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Being that the going rate for Chinese contract coders is between $10-20 and my take-home pay is $13/hr (plus a *lot* of stock), I think the chance of getting half a dozen of them to work for half my salary is pretty damn low -- and would be even at my old, pre-bust ($35/hr) pay rate.

      IIRC, Russian contractors are somewhat more expensive -- $20-30/hr -- and Indian contractors even more expensive than that, in the range of $30-40/hr, but with less of a reputation for leaking code.

      (My out-of-state short-term contract rates -- $70/hr -- may be forced to change, but since those mostly come in to play when someone calls me in to help maintain software I wrote previously, I doubt it).

    35. Re:Welcome to the future... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      A copy of Linux isn't necessarily worth the same amount of money as a copy of some other OS, any more than a Fiat Stilo is necessarily worth the same amount of money as some other car. A licensed copy of a high-end server OS can be sold for enough to feed a family for a month, hence that is its worth.

      With respect to money, it is merely a representation of the value produced by an economy, including land, labour, capital and management. Money, for example, represents the value of the work I do in my job. The value is in the labour, not in the little bits of paper I receive in exchange for it, but that value is what those bits of paper represent. This is why a monetary system which links currency to a commodity with intrinsic value (such as the former link with gold) cannot adjust to abrupt changes in an economy, and therefore leads to more violent swings between inflation/boom and deflation/depression.

    36. Re:Welcome to the future... by Michael+Snoswell · · Score: 1

      I read recently tha there will be more people in China earning above the average US wage in 5 years and this point will be reached in India in 3 years. Give these countries 10-15 years and the US will be the "has been" that the UK is already becoming. I'm sure historians will see the current US recession as a turning point towards this end.

      --
      pithy comment
    37. Re:Welcome to the future... by fusiongyro · · Score: 1

      It would be nice if the second link contained any data, or linked to anything with any data.

      --
      Daniel

    38. Re:Welcome to the future... by AbRASiON · · Score: 1

      And how much of the 20-30 / 30-40 $ an hour going overseas to india / russia is simply skimmed from the fucking agencies who milk the IT workers poor?

      How much of that lines the indian man or the russian man's wallets?

      Yeah............. that's right...... not much.

    39. Re:Welcome to the future... by cduffy · · Score: 1

      We'll see. One of my coworkers (the lead programmer on our current project) is presently in India visiting family and trying to recover from burnout, and will be looking into contract workers there.

      If the overhead of going through an agency is that much, I suspect that he'll attempt to make arrangements to work with contractors there directly (particularly as we're not *about* to pay $30+/hr for programming staff), so I may well have more data later. Stay tuned.

      That said: From the perspective of determining my outlook as an American programmer, I don't care how much lines the Indian man's wallet -- I care what the total cost of outsourcing a programming job to India is. If that cost includes hiring an agency, then that's part of what it /is/... the breakdown of who gets what doesn't matter, except inasmuch as it reflects places where there's room for the competing price to drop.

    40. Re:Welcome to the future... by Cyno · · Score: 1

      Okay, so then if money is based on your labor and I go and write a perl script that does the same thing you are paid to do does my perl script generate money?

      Does IP generate money simply by existing or being used? If so then couple we make enough IP to replace the human labor required to generate the GNP? If so then do you think it would ever be possible to get rid of money from the system altogether?

    41. Re:Welcome to the future... by asparagus · · Score: 1

      Well, I think you're the future of the industry. Companies will rely more and more on a few engineers who are responsible for managing people in other countries. It's not so much that the good people will be cut as the bad ones sacked.

      -Brett

    42. Re:Welcome to the future... by tetra103 · · Score: 1

      You sir are a dumb ass. I'm sorry but your concept of software, value, and it's tie to money and in turn the ability to privide a living is so warped. You actually think that people don't need money because free software has value and hence that value can feed a family....I can't even argue with you because it's so warped and the logic is way off. It's plain and simple. You code for free...long live GNU and RMS is god and blah blah blah. I won't deny that free software has value, but how do you think that'll feed your family? Is it part of your plan that all farmers will grow food for free and banks just give them their farm equiptment? Seeds are all part of the GNU free society? Sorry dude, the free world may live SciFi novels and on Star Trek, but I for one live in the real world. As I said, I can't argue with you because you're not mentally all there.

    43. Re:Welcome to the future... by Cyno · · Score: 1

      You're right, I'm a loon.

      But what makes more money, a farmer or a TV series. Media and IP have no value because there is no limit to their supply, yet they rake in more cash than I could ever imagine. By my logic if you take all the "money" in our current economic system and focused it on real products, physical products, materials, resources, farming, etc. And gave away all the media and IP. And used the media system to promote education, not war and commercialism. You might be able to afford to give away free food in the supermarkets or give those farmers a few seeds and the tools to make them grow.

      But what incentive do I have to write code? I mean, for free, even? Well, I was writing code when I was a kid, hacking out commodore assembly all weekend long, just to learn it, because it was fun.

      If you can think creatively enough to make your jobs fun for a human, instead of laborous, hard, painful, or sometimes similar to paid torture, occationally to the fatal end. Work, labor, slavery, whatever you want to call it is simply wrong. People need to be given the freedom to choose what they want to do. Whatever people don't want to do needs to be automated at whatever the cost. Its really that simple to me. But like I said, I'm a loon. :)

    44. Re:Welcome to the future... by rodgerd · · Score: 1

      I'm not asserting that there aren't wealthy Chinese, or that parts of the China aren't booming (although, ironically for somewhere still claiming to be a Communist state, it's getting serious inequity in the distribution of wealth). I'm pointing out that the ability of Chinese programmers, or any Chinese individual for that matter, is ultimately dependent on what the Party will allow.

      And if the party decide Chinese programmers are pricing themselves too high for the good of the Party, they'll be told to drop their rates. Living in a dictatorship, they'll comply, whether they like it or not.

  12. Nice power consumtion... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Interesting

    According to the article it's only a 5W with an old 0.18um process.

    Godson-3 with SMP support and on-die cache will use only 10W while Intel Itanium2 uses 130W.

    1. Re:Nice power consumtion... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I shouldn't bitch as you're only concern is about power consumption. But real applications will use real processors nowadays, and care less about the consumption. There are performance goals, not power consumption goals.

    2. Re:Nice power consumtion... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Tell that to the laptop market.

      I'd rather have a 500MHz laptop computer where the battery lasted 12 hours, than some 2GHz monster where it only lasts 1.5 hours.

    3. Re:Nice power consumtion... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Then you need to fix the LCD, the disk drives, and the fan. Because the CPU takes less than 25% of the power in a laptop.

    4. Re:Nice power consumtion... by swb · · Score: 1

      But what if the 1.5 hour laptop allows you to do more work? Or better work?

      I know its not true for sitting at a CLI, but there are large segments of the market for whom it may be worthwhile.

    5. Re:Nice power consumtion... by Azureflare · · Score: 1

      Sheesh, I'd buy it just for that! The heat dissapation must be not too much. The cooling would be minimal, no loud whines in the machine! Damn. I'd like to be able to play around with a system that has these chips, and test it out for myself.

    6. Re:Nice power consumtion... by Bill+Currie · · Score: 1

      lcd: probably not much that can be done here without better lcd tech
      disk drives: turn them off when not in use
      fan: can get away with a smaller fan and thus lower power consumption

      --

      Bill - aka taniwha
      --
      Leave others their otherness. -- Aratak

    7. Re:Nice power consumtion... by tetra103 · · Score: 1

      You wouldn't need a fan if the CPU wasn't overheating.

    8. Re:Nice power consumtion... by tetra103 · · Score: 1

      Don't spank the power consumption. It's too bad more people don't think how to be efficient. A big 4GHz Pentium running Windows XP...what an overloaded wasteful fast food eating bloated American fat cow!

    9. Re:Nice power consumtion... by WhaDaYaKnow · · Score: 1

      According to the article it's only a 5W with an old 0.18um process.

      Then again, a more equivalent (in terms of performance) Intel CPU would be the Mobile Celeron at 400MHz which consumes 4.23W max.

    10. Re:Nice power consumtion... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You didn't read that this is targeted at the _embedded_ space, did you? Embedded means telecom switching equipment, cell phones, control computers in cars and airplanes, etc. In many embedded applications either power consumption, heat dissipation, or both are primary concerns. Your PC may be compared to others on a performance basis, but that's no longer the sole comparison criterion when you move out of the PC space.

    11. Re:Nice power consumtion... by kcelery · · Score: 1

      There is a limit to how fast you can read / type. For power number crunching, laptop is not the best choice.

  13. Re:I hear that the CPU is cooled... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I'll wait for the version without MSG!

  14. Re:Mirror by Bender_ · · Score: 1

    Totally redundant. How about checking the domain before blind karma whoring ? I have never seen eetimes slashdotted, and there are lots of eetimes stories on Slashdot.

  15. DSP Chip announced yesterday by bstadil · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Don't forget the DSP chip announced Yesterday. This is really bad news for TI, as the chinese market for cell phones is growing much faster than US and almost saturated Europe.

    --
    Help fight continental drift.
  16. Performance #'s? by binaryDigit · · Score: 1

    It would be interesting to see performance #'s on these things. They're "only" running at 500mhz, so how do they compare to other MIPS based cpu's? Basically, just how good is there engineering. It's nice for the Chinese to have a home grown cpu to use in their home grown machines, but so far it looks like a major yawn in relation to the overall cpu market.

    1. Re:Performance #'s? by haeger · · Score: 1
      It would be interesting to see performance #'s on these things. They're "only" running at 500mhz, so how do they compare to other MIPS based cpu's? Basically, just how good is there engineering. It's nice for the Chinese to have a home grown cpu to use in their home grown machines, but so far it looks like a major yawn in relation to the overall cpu market.

      Tell that to SGI. They're the ones that own MIPS Technologies. All SGI-machines that run IRIX runs on MIPS-processors and they do it damn well. The latest chip is a 600MHz, but those 600MHz can't be compared to Intel/AMD-MHz since the architecture is different.

      Also these machines consume a fraction of the power that Intel/AMD does, I think the latest Pentium weighs in at about 130W and the latest (R14000 or R16000) at 16W, and in this case bigger is not better.
      This means that You can put a lot of CPU's in one machine and get less powerconsumtion and less heat.
      Combine this with SGI's kickass architecture with good interconnect and You've got a really good machine. SGI has no equal when it comes to fluid dynamics calculations as an example. No, linux doesn't come close (yet), although the Altrix looks promising.

      And yes, I know, SGI is too expensive to justify the cost in most cases. Unfortunatly.

      .haeger

      --
      You are not entitled to your opinion. You are entitled to your informed opinion. -- Harlan Ellison
    2. Re:Performance #'s? by RAMMS+EIN · · Score: 1

      There is more to chips than performance alone. This chip is going to be used in grid computing, so it follows that performance will come from the number of CPUs rather than the number of MHzen. The chip is going to have a low power consumption (although you have to be careful with Chinese watts ;-) ), and probably won't generate a lot of heat, which means you can save on coolers. All these can be major wins. And Intel and AMD have proven that a lot of slower but cheaper CPUs win over fewer but more expensive high-performance CPUs in the marketplace, so I think this new chip definitely has a future.

      ---
      Bershere's Formula for Failure: There are only two kinds of people who fail:
      those who listen to nobody... and those who listen to everybody.

      --
      Please correct me if I got my facts wrong.
    3. Re:Performance #'s? by binaryDigit · · Score: 1

      I wasen't talking in the broad sense of systems development. I was just curious to see how their MIPS chip compared to other MIPS implementations to get a sense for just how good their engineering was. After all, just because it's a 500mhz chip doesn't mean that it performs the same as a 500mhz R14k. Notice that I put quotes around "only".

    4. Re:Performance #'s? by binaryDigit · · Score: 1

      Actually my point was to see how their MIPS implementation compares to other MIPS implementations to get a feel for how good their engineering is.

    5. Re:Performance #'s? by echristo · · Score: 1

      There are a number of mips chips released recently that have some serious performance architecture and clock performance enhancements.

      The SB1250
      http://www.broadcom.com/

      And there's a chip by intrinsity that was covered in Microprocessor Report's last issue.

      http://www.intrinsity.com/

  17. Is China the next Japan? by MongooseCN · · Score: 4, Interesting

    People used to hate products like electronics that came out of Japan. They used to be considered cheap crappy imitations. Now Japan is one of the most respected countries producing electronics, if not the best.

    So may China be next? China has a reputation for developing cheap goods and electronic equipment, but they seem to be getting better and better. Maybe someday soon they will be producing electronics as good, if not better, than any other country. The added benefit is that China doesn't follow all the same patent and copyright issues as other countries so they are truly free to innovate and compete. This coupled with Chinas new more positive view on Captitalism and China could become the new super power.

    1. Re:Is China the next Japan? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      >> The added benefit is that China doesn't follow all the same patent and copyright issues as other countries so they are truly free to innovate and compete

      Thats a nice way to spin "steal work from others".

      China is no Japan, and I doubt it will be any time soon. Policies that are designed to keep the social order will keep them down, ie, women at home, poor people in the fields, and so on.

      I mean, if you dont let, or discourage, your women work or get higher education, there goes half of your workforce right there. If you keep the next genious prodigy plowing rice fields his/her whole life because they were born into a lower caste, that hurts too.

      It's not just China, but most of the middle east to far east has these societal hangups that keep them down.

    2. Re:Is China the next Japan? by Subotai · · Score: 1

      China IS the new super power.

      --
      "The only way to catch tiger cubs is to go into the tiger's den."
    3. Re:Is China the next Japan? by gardol · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Your post just shows that how much you know or don't know about China. There are more women in top government positions than in the US.

    4. Re:Is China the next Japan? by MisterFancypants · · Score: 1

      China will be a world super power, but their timeframe in that spot won't be too long. The inevitable population crunch that will occur from decades of single-child only rules coupled with the fact that parents will do just about anything to have a male heir, including exporting or killing their female babies means that the population is going to drastically shrink from current highs even in our own lifetimes.

    5. Re:Is China the next Japan? by Galvatron · · Score: 1

      Personally, I think China will fall from grace for the same reason as Japan: an inflexible, non merit based system. In fact, you can already see that government owned corporations in China are unable to compete; most of the growth in high tech products in the past 10 years has increased the marketshare of foreign owned companies. In absolute dollar terms, Chinese companies have more or less held steady, and in terms of percentage of the overall market, have fallen sharply.

      --
      "The question of whether a computer can think is no more interesting than that of whether a submarine can swim" -EWD
    6. Re:Is China the next Japan? by Galvatron · · Score: 1

      That's interesting, given that most military experts believe the PRC's military is not strong enough to allow them to invade Taiwan (in particular, the airforce/navy isn't strong enough to allow a landing).

      --
      "The question of whether a computer can think is no more interesting than that of whether a submarine can swim" -EWD
    7. Re:Is China the next Japan? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Also they don't consider throwing bombs on other countries because they do not like to play their game.

    8. Re:Is China the next Japan? by rzbx · · Score: 1

      "The added benefit is that China doesn't follow all the same patent and copyright issues as other countries so they are truly free to innovate and compete."

      Very true. Intellectual property laws do so much to hinder progress.

      --
      Question everything.
    9. Re:Is China the next Japan? by bfree · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Your point about a population crunch may or may not be valid and the reason I question it is that China is reputed to have created about 250 million people living outside of the official society, a black-population if you will (a la black market not whatever racist crap just popped into some trolls head). As long as they have that number of people outside of control a population crucnh is unlikely except for in the official figures. Personally I await the day these people arrive in Bejing together and ask the government if they would like to mow them all down with their tanks or reconsider where they are going with their nation. Also it is currently estimated that the population should peak in 2050 at 1.6 billion, and as for a population decline, who knows but China could well have a far longer run in the limelight than you forsee.

      --

      Never underestimate the dark side of the Source

    10. Re:Is China the next Japan? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      In joining the WTO, China agreed to not only accept standard IP notions in principle, but to enforce its IP laws in practice. To a large extent, it has (unsurprisingly) failed to honour the promises it made to gain WTO membership, but the fact that this chip (supposedly, at any rate) doesn't violate any foreign copyrights or patents tends to suggest the Chinese are beginning to accept that they'll ultimately have to honour the treaties they've signed up to.

      China's real advantage is a low-cost and virtually unlimited supply of labour (that can be kept in line, if necessary, with the full power of a police state). However, in most manufacturing industries, global capacity is considerably in excess of likely demand for the forseeable future. That's why traditionaly manufacturing economies like Japan and Germany are facing stagnation and (at least in Japan's case) deflation.

      If China continues to focus on manufacturing for export, it's only a matter of time before global overcapacity reduces the value of the goods it's manufacturing to the point where even cheap and plentiful labour won't be enough to sustain it. Without a domestic economy to provide work for the rest of the labour force, China's economy may well implode.

      The future of Chinese industry looks reasonably good in the short run, but the dependence on foreign (esp. American) investment and demand is a very significant problem. China may become the next Japan, or it may become the next Indonesia. The latter case would be extremely frightening in view of its military power and regional importance.

    11. Re:Is China the next Japan? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Your case is also supported statistically, i.e. in terms of labour force participation.

      One of the few beneficial effects of socialism in China was its erosion of male domination of society, leading to greater equality between the sexes. This effect can also be seen in the former Soviet Union and the regions it occupied, where the difference in labour force participation between males and females is also very small (versus, for example, most Western countries and Japan).

    12. Re:Is China the next Japan? by dnewlander · · Score: 1
      The Chinese government may not "follow all the same patent and copyright issues as other countries," but you can bet your bottom dollar that if any Chinese firms try to sell copyrighted or patented products in the US or Europe without a license they'll get sued out of existence.

      Besides, with China now a member of the WTO, you won't see the "advantage" of stealing other people's intellectual property continuing in China much longer.

    13. Re:Is China the next Japan? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Right, they just send in the People's Liberation Army and then mount colonisation projects to exterminate the local populations (viz Tibet, East Turkestan).

    14. Re:Is China the next Japan? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      yeah.. nice out dated view of super power you have there....

      Let's see what causes you more problems.. an army powerful enough to destroy the U.S.A. yet sitting idle, or you having to work minimum wage to produce low end products because america can't make the high end ones any longer?

    15. Re:Is China the next Japan? by Chemicalscum · · Score: 1

      >China could become the new super power. China is the new super power.

  18. Wow... by x136 · · Score: 1

    China is starting to sound like an interesting place to be.

    Err, aside from the whole "oppressive communist government" thing they've got going on over there, that is.

    --
    SIGFEH
    1. Re:Wow... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      yeah, exactly the same. I am glad you added the extra "m"s. That was a literal translation of the sound made while you were removing the dick from your mouth.

    2. Re:Wow... by Subotai · · Score: 2, Funny

      Actually that is just a nasty rumor to keep all the riff-raff out.

      --
      "The only way to catch tiger cubs is to go into the tiger's den."
    3. Re:Wow... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Try Hong Kong. It has it's own administrative region, so you still have a lot of your own basic freedoms, and will have them for at least a few more decades. You also get a lot closer to the heart of Chinese tech development, and you can always commute up to China pretty easily. And unless you're a really vocal political dissident, chances are, you wouldn't even notice anything if you were visiting. And to be honest, I feel more comfortable speaking up in Hong Kong than I do in the US today.

      Of course, there is the little matter of a job. Since the Hong Kong dollar is pegged to the USD, anything affecting the US economy is just magnified in HK. You'd have a bit of trouble trying to find work nowadays.

    4. Re:Wow... by TheRaven64 · · Score: 1
      Err, aside from the whole "oppressive communist government" thing they've got going on over there, that is.

      We get quite a few students from China on my course, and I've asked a few of them what it's like living under a totalitarian regime. Being computer scientists, the first thing they mention is the broadband is cheaper over there (less than half what I'm paying, for 3 times the bandwidth). The civil liberties issues of their government have never actually touched their lives. The comment on the economies of scale, and the advantage of focused and unified development. Oh, and they don't want to invade America - they don't think it has anything of value.

      --
      I am TheRaven on Soylent News
  19. Had me a hydroponic processor, once. by Limburgher · · Score: 1

    64-bit, RISC, 1MB L2 Cache, and just as plump and juicy as when it was picked. Mmmm-hmm, that's good eatin'!!! :)

    --

    You are not the customer.

    1. Re:Had me a hydroponic processor, once. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Sounds delectable.

  20. Are they available for general use? by mcgroarty · · Score: 2, Interesting
    I'd love to find an offbeat processor like this on a board which still accepted standard PCI cards, or at least a few USB peripherals.

    Does anyone know if this, or another like it, will ever be available stateside with an ATX-mountable motherboard?

    1. Re:Are they available for general use? by GlassHeart · · Score: 1
      I'd love to find an offbeat processor like this on a board which still accepted standard PCI cards, or at least a few USB peripherals.

      Here. They're a little pricey, but that's what you pay for getting out of the mainstream. They can run BSD or Linux, and a development kit (including a really good IDE) is available for free. If you can't afford a new one, there's a vibrant used market as well.

      I'm not joking. A Mac is the best way to experiment outside the x86, partly because it can still double as a real personal computer and run popular apps.

  21. yeah nice but performance ? by johnjones · · Score: 3, Interesting

    I wonder how well it actually performs

    MHz is not everything I wonder how much of a performance penalty e.g. not having unaligned loads actually is and compared to a true MIPS core what the penalty

    anyone got basic benchmarks ?

    regards

    John Jones

    1. Re:yeah nice but performance ? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

      MHz *IS* everything to a design thats a clone of MIPS.

    2. Re:yeah nice but performance ? by tetra103 · · Score: 0, Troll

      Let me get this straight. You make a post asking for benchmarks, and it gets modded to a 3? Slashdot moderators are morons. I've resigned to the fact that I need to read every post because moderated posts have no meaning what so ever.

    3. Re:yeah nice but performance ? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Informative

      Unaligned loads doesn't make a difference when it comes to performance - if anything it makes the chip harder to make and verify.

      The fun thing is; MIPS PROBABLY pays compiler companies to include unaligned loads in the generated code, thus making sure that MIPS-like processors won't work (why else would those instructions be present in places where there is no apparent reason for them to be).
      MIPS feels that they have patent for those instruction in both hardware AND software (never enforced, litigation always ends with a settlement).
      Anyway. Those instructions could be taken out and both Linux and windows CE would perform as well as now.

      Performance would be a theoritical 2 BIPS if memory system can keep up and prediction and caches never miss.
      But things doesn't work that way :)

    4. Re:yeah nice but performance ? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It depends on what you're doing. I can speak with some authority, since I'm one of the MIPS toolchain guys at a compiler company (Green Hills Software, Inc.).

      Unaligned loads and stores, at least on our C compiler, never get generated unless the user is doing structure packing (an option that lowers the maximum potential alignment of struct members). This is because you have the nice property in C that 16- and 32-bit quantities are aligned to 16- and 32-bit boundaries. So when getting at, say, a short using a "lh" instruction, your target is guaranteed to be halfword aligned, which is all the instruction needs.

      The reason to avoid unaligned loads and stores is because they must be issued in pairs (to get at an unaligned 32-bit quantity, you do a lwl and a lwr, not just a normal lw). So unaligned accesses are always slower and are therefore avoided if possible.

      So, unless your compiler is dumb or you're doing structure packing or other scary things, taking unaligned accesses out of the instruction set shouldn't really affect benchmarks at all. OTOH, if you ARE doing unaligned accesses, not having lwl/lwr/swl/swr makes the code much longer and more annoying (lots of loads and shifts). So you take a big hit to remove these if you really need them. But then that's probably obvious anyway.

      For reference, you shouldn't need unaligned accesses on, say, the EEMBC benchmarks, which are probably the right benchmark set for this thing, given that it's targeted at the embedded space.

    5. Re:yeah nice but performance ? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      When new linux versions come out, we have all the fun recompiling the kernel. If someone is following the development of this Godson-X, that would add the fun recompiling the compiler and and kernel.

  22. Bye, Bye Tech Industry by duffbeer703 · · Score: 1, Interesting

    The only difference between the tech market and clothing, shoes, steel, rail and other industries is the day the pink slips went out and the doors shuttered.

    --
    Conformity is the jailer of freedom and enemy of growth. -JFK
    1. Re:Bye, Bye Tech Industry by RestiffBard · · Score: 1

      and? so what? Yes, some folks suffer, lose their jobs, etc... guess what? some new tech comes along and for about 50-20 years the US will be the place where it flourishes. then it will move to another country and we start the cycle again. big whoop.

      --
      - /* dead coders leave no comments */
  23. I call Karma Whore by evanbd · · Score: 0, Flamebait

    Is the mirror there in case EE Times gets slashdotted? Like it has every other time they get linked to?

    1. Re:I call Karma Whore by pinka4242 · · Score: 0

      At least the article in the first link you posted got obviously slashdotted. Didnt have much intrest in checkin the others. What is your point? What are you trying to say ?

  24. Wait a minute.. by ACK!! · · Score: 2, Interesting

    They use linux right...

    How hard is it to create a new version of linux for a new CPU like this?

    I am no kernel hacker but doesn't there have to be certain hooks for the CPU included for a port to be successful?

    How do they get an OS (linux or whatever really) running on this thing?

    --
    ACK /ak/ interj. 2. [from the comic strip "Bloom County"] An exclamation of surprised disgust, esp. i
    1. Re:Wait a minute.. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It's easy as long as CPU supports necessary things like virtual memory, multitasking, etc...

      Linux already supports 64bit MIPS chips, thus in this case porting Linux to the Godson was very easy.

    2. Re:Wait a minute.. by stratjakt · · Score: 1, Informative

      They compile it like a MIPS CPU, and just workaround the handful of opcodes that are missing.

      This isnt so much a 'new' CPU as it is a chinese clone of a fairly old one.

      --
      I don't need no instructions to know how to rock!!!!
    3. Re:Wait a minute.. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
      porting the kernel isn't a big deal.

      porting any piece of open source software won't be a big deal.

      what will be a big deal is when they want to use commercial (binary) software.

    4. Re:Wait a minute.. by taniwha · · Score: 5, Interesting
      You can do a simple (non-optimised) kernel port to a fresh (but well behaved) CPU in 1-2 weeks if you know what you are doing and you already have a GCC port available - a production port is probably more like 6-months or more.

      Actually porting GLIBC is a lot more work than the kernel.

      Porting a kernel while debugging a new compiler for a new CPU architecture is a LOT more work than doing either (I know this from sad experience :-)

    5. Re:Wait a minute.. by echristo · · Score: 1

      Well, conveniently the mips port to gcc already exists and disabling the patented instructions would take about a day of work.

      Glibc is some work, but if they are just using a straight mips3 or 4 ISA then it won't be much work at all, if any.

  25. Chinese article? by saihung · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Does anyone have a link to the announcement in Chinese, or to the Chinese company's site? I'm especially curious to see how they got the name "Godson", since there's no simple Chinese translation for the word "god". If the Chinese term is tian1zi3, which is suspect it is, then it really means "Son of Heaven", another term for the emperor.

    1. Re:Chinese article? by Ducon+Lajoie · · Score: 0, Offtopic

      Not a very communist name though.

      Well, the "communist system with chinese elements" may be closer to good old facism, but I doubt they'd use feudal terms to name products, esp. if they're going to have exposure abroad.

      Or have I missed a change in trademark trends?

    2. Re:Chinese article? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The chinese version of the name is actually "leftovers of dogs" or "Gou Sheng Er" if you know Chinese. yes, it's a humble name. The chinese believe that anything with a humble name will live longer. :-) In chinese "Gou Sheng Er" sounds pretty similar to "Godson". That's why "godson" is chosen as the English name.

    3. Re:Chinese article? by Yuan-Lung · · Score: 2, Informative

      Try this article. Since I can't really read simplified Chinese I am having a hard time reading through it. -_-|||

    4. Re:Chinese article? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      what about "shen" / "shun" (depending on your dialect), that translates to a god. It could be "shen zi"

    5. Re:Chinese article? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I seem to remember the original B&W 'Godzilla' episodes referring to 'Godson - Son of Godzilla!!!'
      Excellent special effects - never been surpassed...

    6. Re:Chinese article? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Actually, godson is just a word which has a similiar pronunciation with the nickname of the CPU. The nickname of the CPU has a very humble word whose meanning is a little like "no body wanted" or "dogfood lefted". Some kids use this nickname because their parent think if you choose a humble name, you will live longer.

    7. Re:Chinese article? by cswiii · · Score: 2, Informative

      Not a very communist name though.

      Well, the "communist system with chinese elements" may be closer to good old facism, but I doubt they'd use feudal terms to name products, esp. if they're going to have exposure abroad.

      Or have I missed a change in trademark trends?


      Chinese culture extends far beyond Communism. Communism did a good job in destroying a fair amount of Chinese culture, but it never came close to giving it the ole KO, nor has any other ruling class. The Mongols or the the communists, you name it... when you're contending with that many people, even if you're the ruling class, you just end up getting diluted in the population.

      This said, heaven ("tian") is used all over the place in China, as are plenty of other Taoist, Confucist and Buddhist terms.

      And China is pretty much "communist" in name only, anymore. It's still run with an iron fist by a small group of men, but if you've not been there, I encourage you to visit. You'll see capitalism one helluva lot more than you will redistribution of wealth.

    8. Re:Chinese article? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Funny cause my grandfather said something like that when my brother was born for good luck, and my grandma from "the South" on the other side of the family took big offense! :)

    9. Re:Chinese article? by Ducon+Lajoie · · Score: 1

      I've spent a few months in China. And I trully enjoyed every moment.

      However, I've seen more trademark along the lines of Red Flag, Yellow Star and such. Or animal-themed brands, or virtue based (I'm trying to remember the cigarette brands here).

      Communist in name: I know. It was fun listening to chinese law teachers explaining the current doctrine and current factual context...

    10. Re:Chinese article? by AlienWorker · · Score: 1

      According to the article, the CPU appears to be named as "Godson-2" by it creators. Bad name, I would say.

    11. Re:Chinese article? by kcelery · · Score: 1

      a link of one the forum discussing the godson-2

      http://www.csdn.net/develop/article/14/14832.sht m

      some chinese in the forum didn't like the name 'godson' and dubbed the product as 'dog remains'.

    12. Re:Chinese article? by LCamel · · Score: 1

      The original site is http://www.blxcpu.com/. The chinese name is "Long2 Xin1". "Long2" means "dragon", and "Xin1" means "chip".

    13. Re:Chinese article? by solo4bird · · Score: 1

      you totally misunderstood it. In traditional chinese culture, a bad name , which was given in the baby time, meant a good wish to the baby for the bright future!

    14. Re:Chinese article? by kcelery · · Score: 1

      I 'm Chinese, thank you.
      I wish some babelfish translation can review the content among those folks in main China commented. Basically some people thought the chief engineering team is burning money to imitate a yesterday technology with zero improvement. Others think this is a zero-breakthrough, bright future lies ahead, well-done folks blah blah blah..
      I think commercial wise the cpu can hardly take off at the present state. There are ARM, MIPs ... From academic standpoint, much work and investment must be done. There is no overnight success.

  26. Re:Mirror by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I agree thx

  27. Re:The beginning by Visaris · · Score: 5, Insightful

    I don't think that is anything to worry about. I mean, think about it.

    Everyone in America is complaining about how US firms are employing foreign workings instead of US citizens. Once the foreign market starts to keep pace with / pass up the US, there will be an increased demand for IT workers in those countries. As demand for these workers increases, their salries will increase as well. This means US firms will be less eager to hire foreign workers.

    Also, I think the US could use a good kick in the pants when it comes to motivation for product innovation. This may be just what we need.

    --

    I am a viral sig. Please help me spread.
  28. Re:Our part by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Well, let me just type that out on my invisible typewriter here. Typee type type.

  29. well I'm an engineer and godson is better than x86 by johnjones · · Score: 0

    technically its cleaner has lots of software support (guess at linux and netbsd + ports )

    and has a smaller die size I would guess

    so in china they dont have a stupid......

    regards

    John jones

  30. What I want to know... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
    is if paying subscribers get early access to the stories, why are the threads still filled with first posts and trolls like usual?
    That implies that even the paying members are trolls.

    me runs off and sends Taco his cash in order to increase my chances at first post!

    1. Re:What I want to know... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Except that paying subscribers don't get to post on early access stories until everyone else does (yet). Of course you would know that if you had read the entire summary.

    2. Re:What I want to know... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
      What? Me? Read the articles?

      That would make it harder to spew half-baked FUD!

      This is /. ! I have a constitutionally protected right to mouth off like an ignorant and stupid lunatic!

  31. MIPS pantent issue by brejc8 · · Score: 4, Informative

    I did post the story but the last sentence which was cut was very important.(Original).
    "Although there are no patent issues MIPS have been known to be very aggressive toward people who try to create compatible systems."

  32. This sounds famailar by mao+che+minh · · Score: 2, Informative

    http://slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=03/03/05/202320 0&mode=thread&tid=126&tid=103 Hmmm......

  33. Bad news for Intel and AMD by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Interesting

    Soon Intel and AMD will be like Ford and GM. With cheap labor, China can easily kill Intel and AMD. They just need time and money to do it.

  34. Reason for MIPS r0 by yerricde · · Score: 5, Informative

    Maybe the could just have used the extra space for a proper move instruction so R0 is freed.

    The MIPS architecture already has a proper 'move' instruction without using r0: r12 = r8 | r8, or r12 = r8 | 0 (zero specified as immediate). The r0 is frozen at 0 so you can do negations (for which ARM uses 'rsb' or reverse subtraction) and other things where zero must be the first argument.

    --
    Will I retire or break 10K?
    1. Re:Reason for MIPS r0 by Bender_ · · Score: 1
      The MIPS architecture already has a proper 'move' instruction without using r0: r12 = r8 | r8, or r12 = r8 | 0 (zero specified as immediate)

      Right, noticed it byself right after posting. There are also several other combinations like rt = rs1 AND rs2 and the shift instructions.

      The r0 is frozen at 0 so you can do negations (for which ARM uses 'rsb' or reverse subtraction) and other things where zero must be the first argument.

      Ok, looks like this is the only application for it. But still, setting r0=0 violates the principle of orthogonality and introdeces a lot of redundancy into the instruction set. I see it looks academiaclly clean to do it like that, but is it really superiour to the other options ?

      - Adding a dedicated neg instruction. There are lots of redundant instruction endcoding, which could have been used. Disadvantage: Maybe an addiotional mux in the instruction decoder, violates the idea of have three operand instructions..

      - Emulating neg using two instructions. Disadvantage: Slowdown by less than 1%..

    2. Re:Reason for MIPS r0 by echristo · · Score: 1

      Agreed. There are lots of reasons to have a frozen r0, not the least of which is this. I just wish that MIPS had frozen fp0 as well. Check out the alpha architecture for the advantages of that.

    3. Re:Reason for MIPS r0 by fitten · · Score: 1

      Well... the fact is that r0 = 0 is just too handy to have. There are tons of reasons to have r0 hardwired to 0.

      NOP = add r0, r0, r0 (actually, add any two registers with the destination r0)

      All your arithmetic comparisons are based off subtractions/additions (which are really the same thing). Compare with 0 for a lot of stuff.

      Also, lots of assignments are to 0. Lots of if, for, while conditionals are to 0.

      Also, there are few addressing modes, one is register + immediate offset. There is no register only addressing mode. How do you do direct addressing? r0 + immediate offset.

      Besides, you can use r0 in any instruction you can use any other register, there are no restrictions. Just remember that no matter what you do to/with r0, the value is always (and always will be) 0.

      Orthogonality is nice, and it isn't academically clean to have r0 = 0. It is just too handy to have. Zero is used too much and you'd end up having to create special instructions for loading(clearing) registers to zero and such to handle them. Hardcoding r0 to zero actually keeps you from having to add more instructions just to handle the special cases of zero.

    4. Re:Reason for MIPS r0 by Bender_ · · Score: 1
      Ok, here are the counterexamples:

      NOP = add r0, r0, r0 (actually, add any two registers with the destination r0)

      OR rx,rx,rx and AND rx,rx,rx are two examples for more NOPs.

      All your arithmetic comparisons are based off subtractions/additions (which are really the same thing). Compare with 0 for a lot of stuff.

      ALL Mips compare instruction do actually compare with 0. You do not need an explicit register for it.

      Also, lots of assignments are to 0. Lots of if, for, while conditionals are to 0

      You can clear any register with XOR rx,rx,rx. See above for the conditionals.

      Also, there are few addressing modes, one is register + immediate offset. There is no register only addressing mode. How do you do direct addressing? r0 + immediate offset.

      Immediate adressing works only for the first and last 32kb of the memory. Therefore there is hardly any use for this. If you really need it you can still initialize a register to zero.

      Hardcoding r0 to zero actually keeps you from having to add more instructions just to handle the special cases of zero.

      Yes, but where are theses cases ? Except of the NEG example nobody managed to bring up anything worthy...

    5. Re:Reason for MIPS r0 by sdbbp · · Score: 1

      At the microarchitectural level, there are also advantages. r0 gets used a lot as an operand. The design can ignore WAW and RAW dependencies regarding r0 and pipeline stalls due to related result bypassing are eliminated.

    6. Re:Reason for MIPS r0 by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Disclaimer - am a MIPS compiler guy at Green Hills Software, Inc.

      Actually, since MIPS sells a lot of processors to the embedded space, that 64KB you can get at with immediate addressing is nothing to shake a stick at. You can get a huge speed boost in certain applications by setting up your memory map properly, sticking your frequently used data in ZDA (the Zero Data Area, a term I'm not sure is valid outside Green Hills compilers), and accessing it there. The "you can still initialize a register to 0" counterpoint is valid, but that initialization costs an instruction, and more than that when you make function calls (since it may need to get saved in the caller or callee depending on whether you decide to make r0 a permanent).

      Basically, I think you could get away without r0 in the instruction set, but then again, a couple years ago, but when I worked on our compilers' support for the Toshiba CORE1 instruction set (which is a MIPS16-like thing), not having r0 was repeatedly annoying in ways I don't remember now :)

    7. Re:Reason for MIPS r0 by Bender_ · · Score: 1
      The design can ignore WAW and RAW dependencies regarding r0 and pipeline stalls due to related result bypassing are eliminated.

      R0 is almost never used as target register - there are no potential hazards. So it does not help here either. For the other registers the mentioned problems are solved with register renaming..

    8. Re:Reason for MIPS r0 by sdbbp · · Score: 1

      No hazards? Think NOP (sll r0, r0, 0).

  35. -1 Redundant, but still... by Wylfing · · Score: 1, Redundant
    This is just one more example of how China is going to blow right past the U.S. in the next 20 years. While we are busy sticking our heads up our own assess with "intellectual property" lawsuits China will be busy creating new prodcuts and new applications for existing ware. Also, c.f., Lunar mining, et al.

    --
    Our intelligent designer has never created an animal that we couldn't improve by strapping a bomb to it.
    1. Re:-1 Redundant, but still... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      While we are busy sticking our heads up our own assess with "intellectual property" lawsuits China will be busy creating new prodcuts and new applications for existing ware.

      The fact that this chip is missing multiple useful opcodes becuase of American patents seems to *indicate* China will have its head stuck up America's intellectual property ass as well.

      Remember, China isn't an all-out dictatorship thingy that operates on the whims of its president; it's just a totaltarian government, and its machinery of totaltarianism isn't going to be used to do things like revoke american patents within China if it is good for the Chinese people to do so, its machinery of totaltarianism is going to be used for nothing more productive than keeping the current system in place and unchallenged by dissidents. Things like the DMCA or CPTDA (the fritz bill, whatever it's called), of course, they may draw the line on, but probably not. We'll see.

      China is kind of like the worst aspects of Russian-style Communism and American-style Capitalism with none of the benefits of either.

      --super ugly ultraman

    2. Re:-1 Redundant, but still... by Maul · · Score: 1

      You're right. I completely dislike the Chinese government, so I hate to say this... but I believe that China and many parts of Southeast Asia are going to blow past us (the USA) within a few decades. Why?

      As you said, we've got our heads up our asses with not only intellectual property nonsense, but also with the idea that certain businesses have some sort of God-given right to stay in business no matter how flawed or antiquated their business plans are.

      While we're stifling innovation in the US with our insane amount of copyright laws, the Chinese will be the ones innovating.

      You're also likely right about space travel. There is a good chance the Chinese will pass us in that field as well. It wouldn't surprise me if China is the country that makes it to Mars. I get the sense that they're willing to make "sacrifices," and push forward even after a spacecraft faces a disaster rather than halting their program for years.

      --

      "You spoony bard!" -Tellah

    3. Re:-1 Redundant, but still... by HiThere · · Score: 1

      None of the benefits?
      Do remember that the current government seems to have halted the recurrent famines. They may still be overwhelmed in the future, but for now ... not starving to death seems to many people a not unreasonable trade-off for a government that really isn't any worse than the Emperors were. And is actually, currently, a bit better.

      Any centralized government tends to become an autocratic monster. Some do it more quickly, some more slowly. The chinese government has been running with the same "government culture" since before 0 AD. They have probably reached a kind of "stability". How good or bad they are depends, of course, largely on who you are and the personality of the current "emperor" (actually, more on the main "man behind the throne", usually). Not good, but much better than, say, Stalin. And it may yet turn out to be much better than Bush, even though Bush started playing from a much superior position. (One atomic war would suffice, even if nothing landed in the US.)

      --

      I think we've pushed this "anyone can grow up to be president" thing too far.
    4. Re:-1 Redundant, but still... by SN74S181 · · Score: 1

      That is, if China doesn't implode because of not rewarding their most creative people. If you don't foster 'intellectual property' by actually paying the people who create it, you end up with just knock-offs of stuff already done elsewhere.

      They seem to be very good at that in China. We'll see how far they can go with it.

    5. Re:-1 Redundant, but still... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      But the alternative to the current regime was not a return to the emperors, it was the Kuomintang. For an idea of what KMT rule might have produced, look at Taiwan, which is now a democratic island with a far more advanced economy than the PRC.

  36. Re:The beginning by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Very true. What we're seeing is a levelling (sp) of the playing field. North America and Europe are accustomed to producing 99% of hardware and software in the world (not a fact, for those kids about to flame, but you get my drift). What we're seeing is India and China and even Mexico and Brazil starting to get a little piece of the pie. Just as with all equilibriums, a balance will be attained.

  37. Emperor brand by yerricde · · Score: 1

    then it really means "Son of Heaven", another term for the emperor.

    Yet the West has "Emperor Linux" brand laptops.

    Or possibly the translation of "Godson" is more idiomatic, along the lines of "a boy I named" which is an important concept for example in Canela culture.

    --
    Will I retire or break 10K?
  38. Say what? by MasTRE · · Score: 1, Interesting

    To avoid MIPS patent issues, several instructions ...

    Since when do the commies give a flying about patents and other such things? And I don't suspect any of their clients would either. So why waste your time on making it patent-free?

    --
    Must-not-watch TV!
    1. Re:Say what? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Don't forget that if this CPU will be successful, it will be sold to the Asian server market...

    2. Re:Say what? by rugger · · Score: 4, Insightful

      You don't ignore patent law when you want to eventually sell your products into Europe, America and the rest of the world.

    3. Re:Say what? by rzbx · · Score: 1

      So it's just commies that don't give a crap about patents is it?
      You can't imagine how many non-commies are against the idea as well.
      Don't give me BS either. Serious intellectuals are against it.
      Patents are a form of piracy. They steal ideas from the public. So wouldn't patents be more communistic than no patents?

      --
      Question everything.
    4. Re:Say what? by cyberformer · · Score: 1

      Maybe the patents will have expired by then. Alternatively, they might also be able to negotiate relatively cheap licensing, both because of the massive production volume, and because the patents will no longer represent the bleeding edge.

    5. Re:Say what? by cswiii · · Score: 2, Informative

      1. First, you obviously know nothing about the Chinese marketplace.
      2. They are cracking down on it. When I was in Beijing, I passed a billboard several times that had posted, in BIG letters, something like "BETTER FOLLOW NEW COPYRIGHT PROPERTY LAWS". Wish I'd had a camera at the time(s).

      While pretty funny, in an outsider-looking-in sorta way, it's just more evidence of what they're doing to try and limit piracy and IP theft.

    6. Re:Say what? by mandolin · · Score: 1

      As a U.S. citizen, I wonder if (when) the U.S. will be eclipsed technology-wise. It will be interesting to see if our governments's position on IP shifts when we find our companies paying big bucks for more and more foreign patents. Some of which will presumably be just as ridiculous as one-click.

    7. Re:Say what? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Actually, China does have patent and copyright laws. The problem is that China has 5 times the population of the U.S. but fewer law enforcement personnel. The Chinese police do periodically crack down on street vendors selling pirated CDs, DVDs and software, but these crackdowns are infrequent and limited in scope because of the limitation on police manpower. Thus, many of these vendors close up shop temporarily or move their operations during a crack down and reopen afterwards. Large legitimate Chinese companies with fixed addresses and assets cannot do this, and they usually follow IP laws. This is not so different from the situation in the U.S., where individuals (and some small businesses) can get away with violating IP laws (e.g. downloading copyrighted stuff from Kazaa, Gnutella), while large companies like Dell painstakingly tries to avoid any violation for fear of lawsuits.

      China is not one big monolithic entity where all individuals and organizations act in exactly the same way no matter what situation they are in. Asking questions like "Since when has China fretted over IP laws?" is just about as silly as asking "Since when has the U.S. fretted over IP laws" because lots of Americans have downloaded copyrighted music from Napster and Kazaa. In fact, I'm willing to bet that the total number of IP law violations in the U.S. is at least an order of magnitude greater than in China.

    8. Re:Say what? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Hey asshole, what the fuck do you think communism is? You must be a fucking american, because if you read your fucking sentence and it made sense to you, then you are a brainwashed idiot. Seriously!

      Communism IS the people, so if patents steal from the public, and the public is communist... well, I'll let you try to figure that one out.

      I will check back on this thread in a week. Try to have an answer by then, buttfuck!

    9. Re:Say what? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      One word:
      MICROSOFT

    10. Re:Say what? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      That's FASCISM, there's a difference. Ask a hippie if you don't believe me.

    11. Re:Say what? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Whoops, asshole me put it to the wrong thread. My Bad, you're right, I'm an ass.

    12. Re:Say what? by rzbx · · Score: 1

      Did you read the parent post I was replying too? Taken out of context a sentence can be made out to sound pretty stupid.

      --
      Question everything.
  39. Re:The beginning by Un+pobre+guey · · Score: 2, Funny
    Note this in your dairy

    I'm putting it between the soy milk and the mango lassi.

  40. FINALLY... by cygnus · · Score: 3, Funny

    now we FINALLY know what the next PowerMac will run on. :)

    --
    Just raise the taxes on crack.
  41. Re:More proof by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    that Asians can't come up with anything new. They just steal the West's ideas!

    Microsoft what?

  42. Longxin? English? by lwbecker2 · · Score: 2, Funny

    "...The chip is dubbed Godson-2 and is the follow-on to a 32-bit, 266-MHz version released last year that is aimed at the embedded systems market.
    ...snip...
    Godson-2, which has also been translated into English as Dragon or Longxin, has already been prototyped. "


    uh... since when is "Longxin" English? no entry in the Dictionary

    1. Re:Longxin? English? by questionlp · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Probably should have been written as "or Romanized as Longxin" (ie: translating the characters sort of by pronouncation/description into something that can be written using Roman/Latin characters).

      Dragon is probably the closest meaning/definition translation of the word.

      I could be wrong though. :|

    2. Re:Longxin? English? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It would probably be more like "Dragon God", Dragon would have just been "long".

    3. Re:Longxin? English? by cswiii · · Score: 1

      "Dragon" is long, not sure what the xin would mean. The only xin I know is "heart", but I haven't heard the rumblings of Sean Connery nearby, so I don't think it'd be "dragonheart", either.

    4. Re:Longxin? English? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "xin" or "shen" is a term for god, or deity. "longxin" would translate to "Dragon God", or "God of Dragons".

    5. Re:Longxin? English? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      xin means computer chip

    6. Re:Longxin? English? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It's meaning is "dragon chip".

  43. Helpful hint: by Thud457 · · Score: 1

    China is much bigger than the US.

    --

    the preceding comment is my own and in no way reflects the opinion of the Joint Chiefs of Staff

    1. Re:Helpful hint: by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Who has a larger market for computer processors?

    2. Re:Helpful hint: by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The guy who can sell them the cheapest. That's who will have the largest market. Palladium be damned!

    3. Re:Helpful hint: by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
      Good question.
      I don't know.

      I take it that you're being sarcastic and believe the answer is "the United States".

      China may be a developing country, but they are developing. They have a lot more potential consumers. And their market hasn't been saturated.

      I would take it as a good thing that those 2 billion new processors be relatively low power rather than the SUV equivalent Intel and AMD offerings.

    4. Re:Helpful hint: by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
      "Who has a larger market for computer processors?"

      Waitasecond! Dammit!

      I let you derail this into a discussion of the market forces involved.
      My original point was that, as far as intellectual property, China can do as it damn well pleases and tell the U.S. to go pound sand.

    5. Re:Helpful hint: by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Why do you think respect for IP is a bilateral issue between the USA and China?

      China's acceptance of standard IP practices (i.e. respecting copyrights, patents, etc.) was required for WTO accession. These practices are accepted by all advanced nations, and if the USA had been too stupid to demand China's adherence to such norms, the EU would certainly have blocked Chinese WTO membership without such adherence.

      Here's a link to a press release from 2001, which discusses the European Commission's role in the matter: http://europa.eu.int/comm/trade/bilateral/china/wt o.htm

  44. With SPARC they wouldn't have any patent issue... by maitas · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Actually, SPARC would have been a far better option, since it's a 100% open spec paltform. The license cost just $99!!! Amazing..

  45. MICRO computing, Multithreading, Multiprocessing by Oriumpor · · Score: 2, Insightful

    umm.... 5 dollars a cpu = HUGE multistacks of little mobos... I said this the first time the dragon was on slashdot.

    Please say "Blah Blah, It isn't cost efficient." If you can run a 500mhz Dragon for 5 watts, and an Itanium for 130, why not run 26x500mhz Dragons? or kick it up a notch for 32x500mhz.

    Also, if you need something real to look at and you can't understand why this is a good idea, have a look at a PC104 board.

    Now Since I've discussed this in the desktop/server cluster end of the spectrum, imagine how this will help portable/wearable/embedded device technology, if their Desktop CPU is planned to run at 5 watts, imagine their portable CPU.

  46. Fast b/c Moon silicon by wembley · · Score: 1

    <silly>
    I think it will be fast because they're going to build it with silicon from the moon.

    Since there is 1/6 gravity on the moon, light can move faster so the chip will be 6x faster than anything us Earth suckers can make.
    </silly>

    --

    Share and Enjoy!

  47. Sounds like a winner.. by digital+photo · · Score: 5, Informative

    From the sound of it, the Godson chips will be lower powered in terms of performance to current US chips. However, I find the energy consumption to be very attractive. Ie, 5 watts and 10 watts for 266Mhz 500 Mhz respectively. Scaling up linearly, that's still just 20 watts of power consumption for a 2Ghz chip.

    But what I'm thinking is that China is aiming for is low cost and low power consumption chips. Ie, can be used in portable hardware and/or massively parallel setups.

    Granted, they can't SMP the chips in hardware, but with a Linux cluster of these, they could quite readily setup a powerful computing cluster.

    Personally, I'm glad that they are designing their own chips. It would be nice to see more competition outside of just the big two.

    The way I see it, if they produce these chips at low prices($15-$50), at such low power consumption levels, I could easily see myself building many small nodes of them. Maybe now, I can POVray just ever so faster... :)

    1. Re:Sounds like a winner.. by mewsenews · · Score: 1

      Ie, 5 watts and 10 watts for 266Mhz 500 Mhz respectively. Scaling up linearly, that's still just 20 watts of power consumption for a 2Ghz chip.

      40?

    2. Re:Sounds like a winner.. by Jeff+DeMaagd · · Score: 1

      I find the energy consumption to be very attractive. Ie, 5 watts and 10 watts for 266Mhz 500 Mhz respectively. Scaling up linearly, that's still just 20 watts of power consumption for a 2Ghz chip.

      Huh? A linear scale would put the 2GHz chip at about 40W (5 watts for every 250MHz). Things don't work that way though with CMOS processes and I don't understand how they got the two datapoints, unless they aren't using CMOS or if they halved the input voltage. CMOS power consumption follows the square law on frequeny, i.e., double the frequency means that power consumption is quadrupled.

  48. Yeah, but can you build a... by HarveyBirdman · · Score: 5, Funny
    ... Beowurf cruster out of them?

    Oh, my goodness. I'm so sorry!

    --
    --- Ban humanity.
    1. Re:Yeah, but can you build a... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      i would have expected more from harvey birdman, superhero and attorney at law.

    2. Re:Yeah, but can you build a... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Only for computing new Manga movies ^^

    3. Re:Yeah, but can you build a... by AlienWorker · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Cruster... That's a typical Engrish word, not Chinglish though.

  49. Error: Undefined logic level. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    That's tri-state, undefined. 0 to +5v please! (TTL)

  50. Marketing Literature by nick_davison · · Score: 2, Funny

    GODSON-2, now 50%* faster at performing miracles than our original GODSON-1 (Jesus) line without the overheating issues associated with the FIRSTANGEL (Lucifer) series.

    Note: 50% speed improvement is valid. PhilosopherMark2003 does not take in to account issues that need to be addressed in the new millenium and therefore produces unbalanced results in favor of BhuddaTechnologies's processor line.

    1. Re:Marketing Literature by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Good thing - the FIRSTANGEL series' one attempt at use blew up all of Antartica and caused global flooding...

  51. backwards compatibility by jbridge21 · · Score: 1

    From the article:

    "The chip will be binary backward compatible to the 32-bit Godson-1, a path of compatibility first chosen by Advanced Micro Devices in development of its Opteron line."

    What a load of horse. Sun did this ~10 yrs ago with the SPARC -> UltraSPARC transition, the PowerPC and POWER specs also include such compatibility, and if I'm not mistaken MIPS themselves did this as well also ~10 yrs ago. Some reporter there really doesn't know his stuff.

    1. Re:backwards compatibility by cgori · · Score: 1

      Dude, he also wrote "super-scaler" -- presumably referring to a superscalar architecture.

      That should tell you how familiar with CPUs the reporter is.

  52. Well by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    It's a step.

    Anyway, i'm willing to bet it was more productive and creative than whatever you did last weekend.

    (Or me, for that matter. I spent last weekend playing "The Ocinara Of Time".)

  53. Re:well I'm an engineer and godson is better than by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    What is "a deltic"?

  54. Why use decimal ? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Just say 40h bit. Please.

  55. Since when has China fretted over patents? by Boone^ · · Score: 1

    I'm impressed. Given their track record on software, their decision to obey MIPS patents pleasantly surprises me... unless their goal is to sell these Godsons in the US without a 5.5x10^9% tariff.

  56. The day the Red Architecture will awake... by jeremie_z_ · · Score: 1

    one thing that may definetely be considered a good point about China doing it's own hardware:

    no DRM (oops! "trusted content management" or whatever new name it was given...) is obviously to take place in their stuff, is it?

    maybe this is the anwser for knocking-down those greedy majors interests in making computers to evolve to protect their own private interests?

    go China! i'm ready to get my RedPC already! :)

    1. Re:The day the Red Architecture will awake... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Sure...it won't restrict your actions, however it will notify the Chinese government to any activities subversive to their communist leadership, which will dispatch the deathsquad momentarily. Eh...maybe you'll just get thrown in a dank prison to live on rats. Lucky bastards.

  57. Intel and AMD are not american by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful


    Its alway funny to see someone from the US claim something as american. Even more so in Electronics and Computers.

    Intel and AMD are Global , they have more employee outside of america then in america ...
    And even more so Oustide of the US. And I dont mean in manufacturing plant only.

    Globalization is affecting everyone but even more the US as no one do business there when its cheaper/better everywhere else.

    1. Re:Intel and AMD are not american by pr0nboy · · Score: 1

      Intel and AMD are Global , they have more employee outside of america then in america ...

      I call bullcrap. Intel has about 80,000 employees, and about 52,000 of them are inside of the US. AMD has about 13,000 employees, and about 7,500 of them are inside the US.

    2. Re:Intel and AMD are not american by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Too bad you dont have the accurate numbers ;-)

  58. Power consumption doesn't scale linearly w/ MHz by Aniquel · · Score: 1

    It's exponential: frequency^2, iirc.

    1. Re:Power consumption doesn't scale linearly w/ MHz by WetCat · · Score: 1

      Exponential is when f(x) grows like 2^Frequency
      Frequency ^ 2 grows as polinomial only.

    2. Re:Power consumption doesn't scale linearly w/ MHz by CTho9305 · · Score: 1

      No, power consumption scales linearly with frequency. It increases with the square of voltage (you can see the voltage relation easily: power = IV = V^2/R)

  59. OK, I said I'd never do it... by abcxyz · · Score: 1

    Time for the gratuitous comment concering Godson Beowolf clusters....

    NO, I'm not going to do it!

  60. It�s just like a MIPS� by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    but 15 minutes later you're hungry for an unaligned load.

  61. Congratulations, China! by YetAnotherName · · Score: 1

    Given the fact that so much high tech research and development was made possible through copious use of acronyms, and that acronyms require an alphabet and not idiograms, I applaud China's accomplishment! :-)

  62. I thought by sydres · · Score: 1

    I thought the original dragon processors released were only about as powerfull as a 486?

  63. Re:Mirror by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Yep. You're a karma whore all right.

  64. 500mhz MIPS based chip "high powered": actually... by StandardDeviant · · Score: 2, Informative

    FYI 500Mhz/64bit/1mb cache is fairly close to the top end of what you can buy from everyone's favorite MIPS-based vendor, SGI. I think the top end from SGI is an R14000(A?) at 700Mhz with (1?2?)Mb of cache. [Yeah, you can tell I keep real on top of the cpus in machines that cost more than my annual salary in most cases. ;)] c.f. the Fuel line of workstations.

  65. ill repute by rinkjustice · · Score: 1

    Heck, if it works like all the other "Made in China" electronics I've owned over the years, AMD and Intel have no worries whatsoever.

    1. Re:ill repute by praksys · · Score: 1

      People used tp say that about "Made in Japan".
      Then they said it about "Made in Taiwan".

      Today's cheap and nasty often turns into tomorrows quality product.

    2. Re:ill repute by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Maybe you don't have any encounters with stuff "Made in US" then

    3. Re:ill repute by rinkjustice · · Score: 1

      There are precious few things that aren't made in China nowadays. I'd gladly chose a product made in the US over one made in China.

  66. Re:The beginning by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    How much software engineering work do you think there is out there? You're assuming there's an unlimited amount... In fact, it's limited to some percentage of the global GDP. Maybe that percentage can go up as countries industrialize, it won't go up at the rate that jobs are shifting. That means US salaries go down to keep pace with foriegn competition, and before long I'm making less than an elementary school teacher. Maybe that's the way it ought to be, but I went into this field thinking it would be somewhat lucrative.

  67. Designed for government snooping? by MtViewGuy · · Score: 1

    While the CPU may not implement Digital Rights Management, I have a BIG worry there may be backdoors in the CPU architecture that might allow the Chinese government to monitor Internet usage by end users with the appropriate monitoring program.

    Far fetched? Given China's aversion to foreign web sites and the fact China is still an authoritarian government this very idea is not out of the question.

    1. Re:Designed for government snooping? by kcelery · · Score: 1

      You mean Intel and Amd has similar gadget in their CPUs, on my god...

  68. Comment removed by account_deleted · · Score: 1

    Comment removed based on user account deletion

  69. Dragon? by Zazi · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Am I the only one who gets a laugh out of what the west calls this processor? It's made in Communist China... Communism = bad... USSR... Red Dragon... ahhh forget it.

  70. Copy/Paste - thx from us firewalled types by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
    I speak for myself certainly, but..

    At work, I rely on Slashdot, K5, and a couple other sites that are slip through.

    I for one value a simple copy/paste. Whether the server can take it, who cares. AFAIC, Slashdot should provide at least the article's texts. Just think how many RTFA posts could be avoided!

  71. Re:The beginning by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    The problem with a kick in the ass is that the US has such a big ass it sometimes doesn't notice it got kicked. If it does, it might lose its head up its own ass looking for the problem. Think back to when Japanese car companies started to sell good cars. The US auto industry lagged way behind and still seems like its trying to keep up.

  72. geek says... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    where can i get one outside china?

  73. I think Korea is "next in line" by raygundan · · Score: 1

    Korea is farther along a path similar to Japan's than China is. The transition from making cheap knockoffs to making quality products happens over time, as money from selling the cheap stuff gradually raises the standard of living and the salaries of the people designing and building the stuff.

    Korea is just now at the point (there was a big Newsweek article about Samsung that I can't find on the web) where companies like Samsung are openly changing strategy from "undercutting price" to "winning sales on quality and features".

    China is undergoing a similar transition, but is not as far along. Chinese electronics are finally starting to appear on shelves, but Apex TVs and the like are still definitely the low-end of things, and are selling on price (or DRM-unfriendly quasi-legal features). When their labor costs become too high to sell on price alone anymore, they too will make a strategy switch like the Japanese did.

  74. SPARC? by cpeterso · · Score: 1


    I wonder if they consider designing a SPARC compatible CPU. I thought SPARC was an "open standard", but the SPARC site does mention that there are some licensing costs. How much would those cost?

  75. Re:well I'm an engineer and godson is better than by Thud457 · · Score: 1

    I think he means he's a locomotive. ?
    Maybe it's some sort of weird dyslexic Buddist koan.

    --

    the preceding comment is my own and in no way reflects the opinion of the Joint Chiefs of Staff

  76. Offshore Labor by willpost · · Score: 1

    It's more likely they hire offshore workers because they can't vote in the US.

    Everyone knows Microsoft donated $400M to India but didn't hear them publicly say, "pick something to move offshore today... quality work at 50% to 60% of the cost. That's two heads for the price of one."

    Hopefully someday we'll figure out how to provide food, shelter, and some spending money to everyone for an honest day's work instead of stepping on people on the way to the top.

  77. Re:With SPARC they wouldn't have any patent issue. by dinog · · Score: 1
    No. Not even a license fee. The $99 is for a listing to get updates.

    Dean G.

  78. Chinese embassy in Belgrade by Pseudonymus+Bosch · · Score: 1

    Do you count Taiwan as "other country"?

    On the other hand, the PRChina embassy in Belgrade was "collateral damage" of the Kosovo war.

    --
    __
    Men with no respect for life must never be allowed to control the ultimate instruments of death.
    GW Bu
  79. What are processor bits measuring? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    The data bus?
    Address bus?
    Largest general register?

  80. Re:The beginning by willpost · · Score: 1

    It would be bad though if the laid off foreign Engineering teams start their own firms and outsource to some Himilayan village that has a bicycle powered net connection.

    I read somewhere that if we averaged the world's food production among the world's population it would equal about a hamburger a day. Can anyone prove or disprove this?

  81. I'm curious... by Decimal · · Score: 1

    Is the "Dragon" processor big-endian or little-endian? (How else can I judge it unless I know if China is on my side in the endian holy war? ;)

    --

    Remember "Bring 'em on"? *sigh
    1. Re:I'm curious... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      well gosh, here's a clue... its a mips..

    2. Re:I'm curious... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      If it's based on MIPS it can probably do either. All MTI cores are able to run in either mode. If you get a Malta eval board (the family of boards which are used with MIPS32- and MIPS64-based cores), you'll see a little DIP-like toggle on it to swap modes. You can even throw this toggle while the board is running and have a lot of stuff "just work" without a reset, which is kind of eerie... write memory, throw the switch, read it back and get the opposite endianness :)

  82. Re:well I'm an engineer and godson is better than by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
    (a deltic so please dont moan about spelling but the content)
    Ironically, the only misspelled word in the entire post is 'deltic' (unless you count "its" used in place of "it's", and "dont" for "don't", which is more of a grammar issue.) I'm guessing deltic is a misspelling of dyslexic, through it's a particularly (deliberately?) bad one if so.
  83. Neuromancer quote by Pseudonymus+Bosch · · Score: 1
    "The Chinese," bellowed a drunken Australian, "Chinese bloody invented nerve-splicing. Give me the mainland for a nerve job any day. Fix you right, mate...."
    "Now that," Case said to his glass, all his bitterness suddenly rising in him like bile, "that is so much bullshit."

    The Japanese had already forgotten more neurosurgery than the Chinese had ever known. The black clinics of Chiba were the cutting edge, whole bodies of technique supplanted monthly, and still they couldn't repair the damage he'd suffered in that Memphis hotel.
    --
    __
    Men with no respect for life must never be allowed to control the ultimate instruments of death.
    GW Bu
  84. Low Consumption, less Pedaling the Generator by Dareth · · Score: 1

    Since the rural people might have to power these by "BICYCLE POWER" generators, the low power consumption might be a good thing.

    --

    I only look human.
    My mother is a halfling and my dad is an ogre, so that makes me an Ogreling
  85. Leapfrog in technology? by nemeosis · · Score: 3, Interesting

    This chip might be an interesting move. We have seen leap frogs in technology adoption in developing countries.

    Examples:
    1. US homes are still mostly connected via copper phone lines. Developing countries which are barely starting to lay out their communications network infrastructure are laying out fiber optic lines. Whether this is good or not is still yet to be seen. Fabric switches are still incredibly expensive.

    2. Cell phone technologies in Japan, Korea, and other asian countries are connected via newer and more advanced 3G CDMA digital technology. For some countries, its much cheaper to build a wireless infrastructure than it is to lay out ground cables. China is pushing their own CDMA technology.

    So, with this new 64-bit CPU, maybe China will make the leapfrog into 64-bit computing. They will have a Linux system capabable of handling a 64-bit instruction set. Assuming of course, that Microsoft doesn't shutter some kind of shady deal with the Chinese government, to have them all running their servers on Windows 2000/.Net operating systems. The company making the chip will have to speed up the CPU though, but maybe they can follow Moore's Law and double every 18 months.

    Who knows, maybe this will cause a revolution in China. The population will be running their systems on a more advanced 64-bit Linux system running MIPS-like instruction set. Then again.. maybe not? The market will decide.

    1. Re:Leapfrog in technology? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      No offense to the asian community, but I do believe one of the bigger reasons for cell phone consumption is, for the lack of a better phrase to put it, asian culture ends up giddier than western culture.

      Cell phones in the west seems like a utility, whereas in asia it's like a personal CUTE toy. I mean, have you seen the accessories and add-ons and designs made or tailored in asia?

      I do believe that the market is HUGE for cellphones, but I think as far as technology is concerned, the design and appearence of the cellphones ranked equally as important

  86. No, here's why by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    In Japanese society/business culture, most firms have functioned in an extremely co-operative, communial sense, to create the best product possible. A CEO of a company feels so indebted to his workers that he may commit suicide if he has to fire them.
    In China, a business man and worker feels no ethical conerns towards anything except protecting himself and his family. The mentality is, if you can see an oppitunity, you're a fool to not take it, no matter what the consequences for others may be. Urban China is all dog-eat-dog, ethic-less, harsh, self-centred, and is not going to produce high-quality products any time soon because the business men are all out to rip each other off.

  87. Linux & non US h/w will save us from DRM/Palla by indaba · · Score: 1
    More precisley, Linux and open source s.w in general will together form a powerful butress against the big-media inspired DRM crackdown we are seeing - ala DCMA and the mooted M$oft Palladium initiatives.

    Between India and China there will be around a 1/4 of the world's people. Thier governments won't be hamstrung by US media inspired laws that lock up content, takes away people right to fair use and most importantly put $$ into the pockets of American companies.

    Do you really think that a paltry USD$400m "donation" by BillG to India will convince a *billion* people to use Windows - no way !

    Do you really think that China will put Palladium h/w controls into their PC's ?? , or DRM limitations into hardrives ?? No way !

    My prediction is that within 10 years, if you want to use a computing platform that is truly free (as in speech, not beer) , then you may well be using a Chinese made PC running RedFlag Linux (English edition)

    Of course you may have trouble importing these non-DCMA v2 "anti-circumenvention devices" into your Western country , certainly the US, where congress have sold out to big-media , and sadly probably into Australia as well shortly (US and Oz are currently in free trade negotiations and the US want to talk about equitable IP laws..) ;-(

    We should all be thankful that the national strategic interests of India and China will happily coincide with the asprirations and ideal of all those who identify with the aims and ideals of the EFF

    Like Lessig said at OSCON 2002 , what have YOU done about it ?? - Donate to the EFF !!

  88. Re:500mhz MIPS based chip "high powered": actually by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Err, how can you tell? A 200MHz R5K is not the same as a 200MHz R10K which is not the same as a 200MHz R12K.

    Furthermore, there are "crippled" MIPS processors in many embedded devices. How would a 133MHz processor out of an EM-500 compare to this?

    Without more details this is a wank discussion.

  89. Analogue output of TV monitor by acb · · Score: 1

    And then offcourse one can still record the analog output of the tv, monitor or speakers but for many applications it'd be really usefull, however.

    Aside: how hard would it be to write a DSP algorithm which takes the output of a camera pointed at a TV screen/monitor and cleans it up (removing glare and distortion and correcting colours)? How much information would still be lost in the best case? (I doubt any watermarks would survive it, unless they were based on doing something weird with the raster beam, in which case CRTs would need to be redesigned.) Would it be feasible for such a scheme to exist and automatically and effortlessly bypass end-to-end copy-denial techniques with tolerable loss of quality?

  90. 5w 500mhz by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    they are just using a bunch of risc chips to back up the main player which is some sort of vliw chip. for instance the vliw instruction may be muldiv the next 30 dwords, the implementation will be able to tap into the array of risc chips to execute the instruction. this would ultimately scale for any high loads of parellel processing, but its not going to be any badboy ALU/FPU or compete with any desktop cpus from amd or intel

  91. And here's how they did it... by azookeeper · · Score: 1

    http://news.com.com/2100-1001-976149.html

  92. Re:Mirror by andrewski · · Score: 0

    My responses to people can sometimes be quite harsh. Yet, I have an Excellent karma too! How strange. I haven't really dipped down much.

    I seemed to have lost the ability to moderate, yet I consistantly Meta-moderate fairly, and try to Moderate fairly as well.

    Weird.

  93. Welcome to your being put out of a job.... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    About Legend Computer
    The Legend Group, started in 1984 by the Chinese Academy of Sciences, is now the largest computer maker in China, with an estimated 27% of the domestic PC market and revenues of $2.4 billion in 1999. Legend is currently focused on expanding Internet access in China, including broadband access, and has entered partnerships with Microsoft and Pacific Century Cyber Works. An independent subsidiary, Legend Digital China, handles e-commerce and systems integration activities.

  94. To tell you what the real meaning of the "Godson" by solo4bird · · Score: 2, Informative

    Based on the traditional chinese culture, it is considered to be easier to bring up a little baby, when it is tittle, that parents give there child a "Ugly" nickname. So ,in Chinese, 'Gou Sheng'(means a kid is brought up by puppy's leftover) is normally used, especially in countryside, which pronunciation in chinese(just like the pronunciation of Goshen ) is just like Godson, which meaning is so good in English.

    In China, it is normally called as Long Xin, which didn't mean Dragon Hear. As some of you guys know, Long in Chinese means Dragon and Xin means heart. But there is another meanings of Long and Xin, Long reffers to All Chinese People and Xin means chip. So longxin means Chinese Chip!

    If you guys want to know the story of developing the chip and if you understand Chinese , you can navigate to the following URLs£

    http://www.pconline.com.cn/news/hotpick/hy/10210 /9 7594.html

    http://www.csdn.net/Develop/article/15%5C15461.s ht m

  95. To tell you the real meaning of Godson in Chinese by solo4bird · · Score: 1

    Based on the traditional chinese culture, it is considered to be easier to bring up a little baby, when it is tittle, that parents give there child a "Ugly" nickname. So ,in Chinese, 'Gou Sheng'(means a kid is brought up by puppy's leftover) is normally used, especially in countryside, which pronunciation in chinese(just like the pronunciation of Goshen ) is just like Godson, which meaning is so good in English. In China, it is normally called as Long Xin, which didn't mean Dragon Hear. As some of you guys know, Long in Chinese means Dragon and Xin means heart. But there is another meanings of Long and Xin, Long reffers to All Chinese People and Xin means chip. So longxin means Chinese Chip! If you guys want to know the story of developing the chip and if you understand Chinese , you can navigate to the following URLs£ http://www.pconline.com.cn/news/hotpick/hy/10210/9 7594.html http://www.csdn.net/Develop/article/15%5C15461.sht m

  96. Re:To tell you the real meaning of Godson in Chine by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    loong = dragon

  97. Another performance rating ?? by Sayan · · Score: 1

    Talking about performance... I wonder whether we will see another AMD PR number style rating scheme....

    --
    resurrect my .sig
  98. TSMC by eetvar · · Score: 1

    Am I the only one finding it interesting that they are planning on manufacturing it in Taiwan?

    Is economy starting to outweigh politics even in China? :)

    eetu.

    1. Re:TSMC by taweili · · Score: 1
      Is economy starting to outweigh politics even in China? :)

      It has always been the case. Taiwan's business has been investing in China for long time. TSMC and UMC have had been in China for years, waiting for the restriction to be left by Taiwanese government and bargine better deal with the Chinese government.

      With TSMC fab turning out those chips and Taiwanese mainboard/chipset vendors jumping on board, this could be very interesting.

  99. Only on embedded systems by yerricde · · Score: 1

    How do you do direct addressing? r0 + immediate offset.

    Only useful on a few limited embedded systems. The immediate offset has a range of only +/- 32 KB. An offset like this from zero would reach only the first and last 32 KB of memory, and on virtual-memory systems I've seen, the first and last 32 KB is usually paged out to catch null-pointer dereference bugs. When I took a class on MIPS assembly language for my CS degree, most direct addressing on MIPS was done with 'lui' (load upper 16 bits immediate) followed by a load.

    --
    Will I retire or break 10K?
  100. what kind of yields? by peter303 · · Score: 1

    Its one thing to design something, and another to manufacture it efficiently. China has introduced other state-of-the-art machines before, such as the Cray knockoff called Galaxy, but at an economic cost around a hundred times the labor to construct and run compared to a Cray. Low production computers dont cut it economically.

  101. Re:To tell you what the real meaning of the "Godso by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    The character "Sheng" has another meaning: penis.

  102. Comment removed by account_deleted · · Score: 1

    Comment removed based on user account deletion

  103. wrong translation for CPU by mxsheng · · Score: 1

    The CPU is the core of the computer. So the chip is called "xin1" which means heart in Chinese. "Long2" is the dragon ,the symbole in China, in Chinese. "Godson" is meaningless translation. I think the CPU should be called "Dragon's Heart". "Dragon's Heart" tells all the people in the world that Chinese want to get their own CPU.