New NASA Maps Show A Bad Day On Earth

Stephen Lau writes "ScienceDaily has an article talking about the new NASA maps that reveal the geography of the North American continent in amazing detail. One of the maps provides strong evidence of a 112 mile wide, 3000 foot deep impact crater which they believe was the comet/asteroid impact that killed the dinosaurs and more than 70% of Earth's living species 65 million years ago."

Comments

sounds like a dupe

[databoing]

Wasn't this in Slashdot about 2 days ago?

Re:sounds like a dupe

[GrayCalx]

I don't think so, but it was on every other news site this weekend. Way to stay ahead of the curve /.

Re:sounds like a dupe

[happyDave]

Yes, on March 7, 2003. New NASA releases new topopgraphic map.

Re:sounds like a dupe

[Jugalator]

Yes, but they're running it again in hopes that NASA has installed a new web server...

Re:sounds like a dupe

[_anomaly_]

Isn't posting a story on slashdot that links to a government website (which results in bringing down said website) considered an act of terror?

Re:sounds like a dupe

[aled]

I'm sure I saw this 65 million years ago. More or less.

Re:sounds like a dupe

[netsharc]

Well if you had a Slashdot subscription you would've heard about it earlier! ;)

A Meteor Did *NOT* Kill the Dinosaurs

[egg troll]

Everyone knows that cigarette smoking did. At least that's what Gary Larson has hypothesized.

Re:A Meteor Did *NOT* Kill the Dinosaurs

[whovian]

Acutally it was Homer Simpson's sneeze.

Re:A Meteor Did *NOT* Kill the Dinosaurs

[elutfall]

Actually if you look at that particular illustration from the prehistoric era closely, you will see that it was not the cigarettes that killed the dinosaurs.

Everyone knows that 3 on a match is bad luck. So obviously once that third dinosaur lit off of the same match, their kind was doomed.

This also sheds new light on the origins of the "3 on a match" saying. Originally attributed to WWI trench wars, it was said that the first was to see them, the second was to aim, and the third on a match was the one to get shot.

The emminent historian Professor Larson shows us otherwise.

Apparently the meteor was aimed at the third dinosaur.

I have to stop now. If I go any further off-topic I'll have to...

Re:A Meteor Did *NOT* Kill the Dinosaurs

[IXI]

Your subject is true but your message isn't. The fact is the dinosaurs weren't killed, they can still be found alive, eg in the White House.

That wasn't a crater.

[Trespass]

It was Bryan Adams' acne scars. Thank you, thank you. I'll be here all week.

Re:That wasn't a crater.

[wwest4]

Yeah, let's hope it hits Canada next time instead of Mexico.

Just kidding, I love all of my northern neighbors.

Re:That wasn't a crater.

[Anonvmous Coward]

"Better yet, let it hit France. Their white flags would be useless against it."

Knowing Chirac, he'd veto any plans to evacuate.

Re:That wasn't a crater.

[bluephone]

"Knowing Chirac, he'd veto any plans to evacuate."

Why? Running away is what they're best at.

Re:That wasn't a crater.

[ckaminski]

They don't run away. They just give up.

Hence the white flag in every home, right next to the umbrella. :-)

Man, every asteroid kills the poor dinosaurs

[ArmorFiend]

It seems whenever anyone finds a reasonably large crater, they declare "this is it, this is the one that killed the dinos". It grabs headlines. I'd hate to be a dinosaur, because it seems like I'd've been extinctified about 12 times over by genocidal asteroid de jour.

Re:Man, every asteroid kills the poor dinosaurs

[Malc]

They've been talking about an asteroid landing in the Gulf of Mexico since before I studied Geology in 1990. I remember being taught about the ejector blanket evidence they'd discovered in amongst the rock layers. The actual crater is rather harder to find due to it being submerged and eroded - it's not like it's obvious like the one in the desert in Arizona.

Re:Man, every asteroid kills the poor dinosaurs

[rabiteman]

It seems whenever anyone finds a reasonably large crater, they declare "this is it, this is the one that killed the dinos". It grabs headlines. I'd hate to be a dinosaur, because it seems like I'd've been extinctified about 12 times over by genocidal asteroid de jour.

Well, the first asteroid was just a warning. Then the next ten were warnings, too. This current one, on the other hand... was the final chance for the dinosaurs to get their act in gear. In a few months, satellites will discover evidence of a 13th apocalyptic asteroid in Siberia. That's the one that took out the dinosaurs.

Re:Man, every asteroid kills the poor dinosaurs

[$$$$$exyGal]

Quote from the article:

... the flat limestone plateau of Mexico's Yucatan Peninsula

In this particular case, though, this research is verifying a long held belief that a giant asteroid/comet hit the Yucatan Peninsula. This is not news of a new asteroid.

Re:Man, every asteroid kills the poor dinosaurs

[Anonymous Coward]

And they all fail to take the bible into account: Clearly it was GOD who smote the dinasaurs as he tired of their annoyingly repetitive and formulaic gameplay, instead installing a copy a Humans v1.0. Unfortunately he's getting a little tired of this game, too, and rumor has it that he's ready to unleash some fun WMDs to clean the slate for the next game.

Re:Man, every asteroid kills the poor dinosaurs

[IPFreely]

The Chicxulub site has been referenced and studied for quite a while now in the context of "the" meteor hit. Most of the meteor impact theory surrounds this one site, not many different sites.
It just gets a newsworthy face lift every time someone finds yet more evidence supporting it.

Re:Man, every asteroid kills the poor dinosaurs

[Surak]

Yeah, but how do they know that this *particular* asteroid wiped out most of the species on the planet 65 million years ago? As the parent poster pointed out, there have been many such asteroid impacts discovered, and there's no proof one way or the other that one or any of them caused the extinction of the dinos. It's not like anyone was around 65 million years ago to see it.

Re:Man, every asteroid kills the poor dinosaurs

[superdan2k]

You'd swear Apple was a dinosaur, too -- they've been declared "extinct" on a monthly basis since the early 1990's. Something weird about Asteroid Gates or something like that... I'd still love to be Apple, though.

Re:Man, every asteroid kills the poor dinosaurs

[TequilaMonster]

It's a smoking gun situation. No-one saw the shot, but the gun is there next to the body.

Carbon dating the ring shows that it occurred 65 million years ago, and checking the fossil record all over the world shows a massive extinction occurring at the same time.

The glove fits.

Book 'em, Dano.

Re:Man, every asteroid kills the poor dinosaurs

[Xformer]

Indeed. Considering that dinos had space travel nailed by that time, they should have been able to save themselves. They just couldn't figure out that the end was near.

Re:Man, every asteroid kills the poor dinosaurs

[Xzzy]

> how do they know that this *particular* asteroid
> wiped out most of the species on the planet 65
> million years ago?

obviously they can't, with irrefutable "ah-ha this is it!" evidence. However they can narrow down the range of options for a specific candidate with things like core samples.

when an asteroid hits, it reorders the earth around it in some fairly identifiable ways. I don't know all the specifics, but it is rather common for geologists to date asteroid impacts by analyzing not just the dirt above the old crater, but the dirt below it too.

For example, if you take a core sample from a known undisturbed part of the planet, and identify at what age any specific depth was the surface of the earth, you can compare this sample to a sample taken from a suspected asteroid impact crater and date it that way.

Under the impact crater, there will be undisturbed material (fossils, stones, etc). Above it will be a messy jumble of everything, from bits of glass formed in the heat of the impact, to shattered rocks, a complete reordering of dirt layers.. stuff like that.

if you can link an event in earth's history (eg, dinosaurs going extinct) to the timeline a core sample reveals, you can get a pretty good guess for what the cause of the event was.

Re:Man, every asteroid kills the poor dinosaurs

[DrinkDr.Pepper]

They had evidence of soil from the Yucatan peninsula in the K/T layer from outcroppings around to world, indicating that the impact took place there and scattered material specific to the peninsula, around the globe. Dinosaurs are found up to the K/T layer, but not above. This has been known for quite some time. The exact location of the crater was located around 1991 I believe, but was only corroborating evidence. The evidence comes from the composition of the K/T layer. This link might help.

Re:Man, every asteroid kills the poor dinosaurs

[Drachemorder]

"Carbon dating the ring shows that it occurred 65 million years ago"

Um, you can't carbon date an asteroid. You can only carbon date organic material, and that only up to maybe 10,000 years old or so.

If you want to date rocks, you have to use other forms of radiometric dating, which is what I assume you were referring to.

Re:Man, every asteroid kills the poor dinosaurs

[Anonymous Coward]

Because of all the dino skeletons in this crater, twisted to look over their shoulder with forelegs raised in a defensive "oh no" posture.

Re:Man, every asteroid kills the poor dinosaurs

[Malc]

There's a clear point of delineation in the rock record. After that point there are no more dinosaur fossil remains.

The ejector blanket (material thrown out from the impact) from an asteroid hit is also apparent in the rock record as a thin layer. It often contains things that aren't normally present in the type of surrounding rock strata, such a higher level of nickel.

I think you will find that the ejector blanket coincides with the extinction of the dinosaurs. No, it's 100% certain, but it is one of the most highly likely causes discovered. It's a case of probabilities and no discoveries of anything more believable.

Re:Man, every asteroid kills the poor dinosaurs

[Spudley]

I remember being taught about the ejector blanket...

No! It's called an ejector SEAT - it only looks like a blanket when it lands, and gets completely covered up in an amusing fashion by the parachute.

Re:Man, every asteroid kills the poor dinosaurs

[Graff]

how do they know that this *particular* asteroid wiped out most of the species on the planet 65 million years ago?

They can't be 100% absolutely positively certain, but they can get pretty close to certain. There are several ways to find out if a particular asteroid was the cause of a certain effect.

We can get fairly accurate dating of both the asteroid event and the extinction event. You can find out when the impact occurred by noting how deep the the impact site and the material ejected from it is buried and comparing it to the sedimentation rates in the area. You can also perform carbon dating or other isotopic analysis on material that was killed in the region of the event at the impact layer.

If the impact was large enough then the material that made up the asteroid should have been deposited around the world. Each asteroid has a "fingerprint" of different isotopes that is fairly unique, so the deposited layer can be identified as to which asteroid caused it. This means that there will be an identifiable layer of material in the arctic ice. Since each yearly layer has seasonal dark and light bands, just count the rings to find out how old the deposited layer is.

Dating the dinosaurs is also done pretty easily. Carbon dating and isotopic analysis can narrow down the date pretty well, as well as buried depth, sedimentation rates, and other geological identifiers. Finally, the layer that the dinosaur fossils are found in will have some of that isotopic "fingerprint" from the asteroid that impacted the Earth.

With this information you can narrow down both the impact date and the extinction dates to a narrow range. If those ranges overlap and the impact was large enough, you probably have the impact that caused the extinction. It turns out that there is probably the major impact in the Yucatan Peninsula and a few much more minor impacts that caused the extinction of the dinosaurs. We've known about this for years, but more evidence never hurts.

Re:Man, every asteroid kills the poor dinosaurs

[fermion]

I don't remember when the asteroid theory of dinosaur extinction was recognized as a good possibility, but it must have late 80s. At that time we didn't know if was one or many. I know that in the early 90s the the Yucatan crater was identified as the most likely culprit, as it was big enough and contemporaneous with the extinction which put the single asteroid extinction at the forefront.

So, through most of the 90's we accepted that a single impact event wiped out the dinosaurs. Now, however, more impact craters are being found to have been formed within the crucial 65 million time frame (a search on multiple impact and dinosaur extinction). This is good news because perhaps a single big asteroid might not be fatal, and we may be more able to detect a swarm of meteors.

Anyway, science is a self correcting system, and at this point is may be best just to say it is likely that at least one asteroid hit the earth and was a major contributor to the extinction of the dinosaur. But I know that is too long for a soundbyte.

Re:Man, every asteroid kills the poor dinosaurs

[dsz]

There's a well-written book called T. rex and the Crater of Doom by the man who was part of the team that figured out how, when and where the asteroid hit, Walter Alvarez.

It's a very accessible read, and explains their thought processes quite clearly.

As I recall, the discovery of iridium, an element only found extraterrestrially (i.e. on asteroids), in the strata of rock that corresponds to the date of the extinction of the dinosaurs tipped them off.

-DZ

Re:Man, every asteroid kills the poor dinosaurs

[hmccabe]

What do you expect, the UN gave the dinosaurs 1 last chance to clean up their act too many times.

Re:Man, every asteroid kills the poor dinosaurs

[razberry636]

If you want to date rocks, you have to use other forms...

There's other ways to date rocks, too, though not as successful:
"Okay, how about a week from Saturday?"

--paraphrased from Larry Gonick, Cartoon History of the Universe

Re:Man, every asteroid kills the poor dinosaurs

[ackthpt]

It seems whenever anyone finds a reasonably large crater, they declare "this is it, this is the one that killed the dinos"

Yeah, but it missed Barney. Tho there's always hope.

"I have this theory, and I'd like a grant of $1 billion to study it, I say the Dinosaurs were killed off by restrictive intellectual property laws run amok."

Re:Man, every asteroid kills the poor dinosaurs

[saskboy]

From what I've learned in Astronomy recently, it sounds like there is a good possibility that some solar bound object disturbs the Earth's Oort cloud every few million years. Many astroids may have impacted in the final years of the dinosaurs, not just one killer as the experts at Hollywood would have us understand things.

Re:Man, every asteroid kills the poor dinosaurs

[Iguanaphobic]

Oh they knew it was near... it's just that the new season of "Survivor" was starting and they were busy with that whole "mammal" civil war and all.

Re:Man, every asteroid kills the poor dinosaurs

[Graff]

the half-life of radio-active Carbon is approximately 5,700 YEARS. After about 10 half-lives the aggragate properties of radioactive decay no long hold

Yes, I am a chemist and yes, I do know this. This is why I specfically said "Carbon dating and isotopic analysis ". Isotopic analysis includes using other isotopes such as potassium-40, rubidium-87, uranium-235, and uranium 238. Using these isotopes you can get dating as far back as about 5 billion years, more than enough to date dinosaur fossils and asteroid fragments that caused the extinction level event.

Take a look at this site to understand more about isotopic analysis methods.

Re:Man, every asteroid kills the poor dinosaurs

[Graff]

I'd like to see you count 65 million rings.

Sure, just count the rings in a few selected feet or so and then extrapolate. You may not get an exact number but then again you don't need to be exactly right, just within a acceptable level or uncertainty.

Re:Man, every asteroid kills the poor dinosaurs

[Tycho]

One of my geology professors made the case that the a meteor impact did not kill off the dinosaurs. What is claimed which is backed up by evidence was that the impact in Mexico was only large enough to have only had regional effects. In other words no global firestorms and no clouds of dust obscuring the sun and cooling the earth. The iridium layer may have been deposited by the meteor, but it also could have been deposited by massive volcanism that was occuring in India at the end of the Cretaceous. The evidence also shows that the number of dinosaur species were declining at the end of the Cretaceous and the number of mammal species were increasing. For that matter insects did not appear to undergo any sort of mass extinction at the end of the Cretaceous. What is even more interesting is that dinosaurs could have survived after the end of the Cretaceous in rain forests. However, it is difficult to prove either way because fossils do not generally form in rain forests. Additionally at the end of the Cretaceous global temperatures were cooling even before the impact which would have resulted in less good habitat for the dinosuars..

Re:Man, every asteroid kills the poor dinosaurs

[DarkMinds69]

And yet very few are aware of the fact that according to the fossil record, the Dino's were pretty much finished long before that blanket was laid..

Re:Man, every asteroid kills the poor dinosaurs

[PsykhoKiwi]

I think this reply is worth more mention and a better mod. From my studies in Geology, I can't remember the exact figures but the fossil records of dinosaurs finish largely before the evidence of this comet in the rock strata.
This would indicate that the dinos were already well on their way out and that this comet just made sure of it.
I also remember being shown evidence of a massive but slow and progressive climate change happening beforehand which could be attributed to the dinos pegging it.

Of course this is all circumstantial because the fossil record is massively incomplete. Just because the fossils start to disappear doesn't mean the species did, it just means that for some reason none of the species were fossilised.

Dates are very general aswell. The further back you go with radio-isoptope dating, the more inaccurate it becomes so you can only generalise and hope you are in the right area.

Dupe

[Anonymous Coward]

From the 7th - NASA Releases New Topographic Map of North America

Re:Dupe

[geoswan]

Yeah, I noticed this too. The strange thing is that this iteration has already had fifteen times as many comments posted, in just four hours, as the earliear iteration has in four days.

Re:Dupe

[puppet10]

That's because the last was posted to the Science section only. Unless you have Collapse sections (show stories from all sections, unless specifically excluded) selected on your homepage options you will not see this story on the main page, only if you go to the science section.

Dino Deaths

[Anonymous Coward]

The Dinos died coz they ran out of beer. Stop lying to us !

Re:Dino Deaths

[hoagieslapper]

I acutally support Gary Larson's theory that smoking killed the dinosours.

Re:Dino Deaths

[Sloppy]

Er.. I don't think barley or wheat had evolved yet, at the time of the dinosaurs. They never had beer!

Re:Dino Deaths

[Anonvmous Coward]

"The Dinos died coz they ran out of beer. Stop lying to us !"

Actually they died because they were overly reliant on fossil fuels.

Re:Dino Deaths

[JebusIsLord]

This is true. There were to be no grasses at all for several million years.

Something concrete

[BJZQ8]

Finally something people can "grab ahold of" out of NASA. If they made a bigger deal out of a lot of their other advances and discoveries they would be held in better public esteem. But the public usually only pays attention when something bad happens.

Re:Something concrete

[two_socks]

Or when there's dinosaurs!

Re:Something concrete

[quintessent]

The ignorant public doesn't realize that this is just another attempt by NASA to distract us from the truth about the moon landings. They never happened! And this data is certain to all be faked as well.

Conspiracy theorists unite and take over the airwaves!

Oh wait, we've already done that. Unite anyway! Buy an Art Bell t-shirt and show pride in what you believe! Keep this great American country safe for truth, coverups, and UFO sightings!

It's dead Jim!

[LazloTheDog]

Looks like we killed NASA.

Re:Slashdotted...

[bluecalix]

Seriously, are they getting their bandwidth thru a garden hose?

Re:If you support Slashdot, you support terrorism

[Monkey Angst]

Personally I hope the whole lot of you are arrested and subjected to sleep-deprivation interrogation techniques.

Sure. Then they can try the Chinese water torture on Aquaman. These are Linux geeks, for God's sake.

Re:Slashdotted...

[exley]

Yup, it's gone from being a picture of a bad day on earth to a bad day for JPL's webmasters.

Dinosaurs not killed by comet

[guacamolefoo]

C'mon! If the dinosaurs were killed by a comet, why weren't people killed, too? Didn't you ever watch the Flintstones? Given the interspecies symbiosis, it is highly unlikely that a sudden and catastrophic loss of the dinosaurs would not have resulted in a destruction of mankind as well. How would humans have quarried rock?

No, I think a much more plausible explanation is that the dinosaurs were actually the victims of second-hand smoke, overpopulation, and perhaps disease. I mean, really.

GF.

Re:Dinosaurs not killed by comet

[Anonymous Coward]

No doubt the dinosaurs got their heads stuck in the plastic ring can holders too. Damn us, damn us!

Re:Dinosaurs not killed by comet

[potaz]

The way the dinosaurs were killed is clearly explained here, in comic-strip form..

What's more, it's in Choose-Your-Own-Adventure comic-strip form.

Perhaps.. the perfect educational tool?

Re:Dinosaurs not killed by comet

[bizitch]

What? - weren't they killed by the BIGGEST killer of all?

Global Warming! ..... AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!

Re:Dinosaurs not killed by comet

[giantsfan89]

Global Warning?? No...

It's SLASHDOTTING!!!

Re:Dinosaurs not killed by comet

[HamNRye]

Good point... Also, how come noone has discovered the missing link that shows how we came by all those extra chromosomes so quickly. Read "THe Evolutionists", because there is alot more to evolution than you thought.

Re:Dinosaurs not killed by comet

[geoswan]

Also, how come noone has discovered the missing link that shows how we came by all those extra chromosomes so quickly.

Extra chromosomes?

Speak for yourself! I am making use of all of mine, thank you very much.

no nuclear winter

[wwest4]

The most important finding as a result of new imaging is that the mass extiction may have been caused by sulfur fumes, and fires started by hot falling debris. Before they thought photosynthesis was halted by solar obstruction from the dust cloud.

Which means that a similarly-sized asteroid may be slightly less apocalyptic than thought. Sort of comforting, though I wonder how we'd deal with global forest fires when we can't even handle a relatively small number now.

Re:no nuclear winter

[antis0c]

I've often wondered what I'd do if there were some kind of mass catastrophy headed our way. And I don't mean Osama setting off a Nuke on the east coast, or something, I'm talking about real apocolyptic stuff, the stuff that would destroy our entire society. Of course the first thought is to stock up on Guns, Food, Water and Toilet Paper. Build a shelter of some kind, that sort of stuff.

Then I'm reminded that in those situations, the people that die are often the lucky ones. So I'm torn, try to survive or just give up. I'm not sure I'd want to live a life in a post apocolyptic world anyway. So I say when the big one hits, I only need 3 supplies. A Ladder, A Lawn Chair and A bottle of Southern Comfort. This way at least I have a decent view.

Re:no nuclear winter

[scatter_gather]

As we have just had our Larry Niven interview, might I suggest you read Lucifer's Hammer for a speculative look at post "Big Rock Hits Earth" survival scenario.

Re:no nuclear winter

[Torgo's Pizza]

Oh, don't wuss out completely. I have learned from playing Fallout 1 & 2, Wasteland and watching all the Road Warrior movies that I can finally have a pink mohawk, wear football pads and drive as fast as I want with a sawed-off shotgun in a Post-Apocolyptic world.

Re:no nuclear winter

[Ian Bicking]

Why a gun? I don't see why a post-apocolyptic world would be particularly violent, though I guess it depends on what kind of apocolypse.

If the mass of humanity was killed, and you survived, wouldn't you seek the company and assistance of others? In the wake of tremendous destruction, what purpose would violence have? Cooperation would seem infinitely more important.

Sure, in a riot people are violent. But a riot involves people doing things they can't normally do in their lives amidst their society. It's a temporary state, almost by definition.

In a war people are violent, often long after the war. But that's more than just the collapse of society, that's an extension of society's self-destruction. Few apocolyptic scenarios involve mass societal collapse as a cause, unless the apocolypse is somehow based on everyone being turned crazy by Radio Waves From Space or something (very Steven King-like). In that case you wouldn't want a gun, because you'd kill someone you love or some other horror.

It'd look real silly if the survivors of an apocolypse were toting around guns in an empty landscape.

Re:no nuclear winter

[Machine9]

Big rocks, Schmocks...

Everybody knows to watch for the stars...when they are right, THEN cthuloid shit hits the fan, and we'll WISH we'd been hit by a rock!

Re:no nuclear winter

[maraist]

In a war people are violent, often long after the war. But that's more than just the collapse of society, that's an extension of society's self-destruction. Few apocolyptic scenarios involve mass societal collapse as a cause..

Step 1) Shock/Fear: Mass fear (will might die, my family might die, where will I live?, what will I eat?).

Step 2) Hysteria: People vauling their families or in worst cases, themselves over anything, including common human decency (trampling over people, driving over people, etc). At this stage, we become primally instinctive; we're in self-defense mode.. We're not able to think rationally.

Step 3) Anarchy: Hysteria slowly calms down.. We're no longer screaming (though many are still crying). Depression will start kicking in for some.. Many will lose hope. Many will start to think about the future. They'll quickly rationalize lawless activities. Rape, looting, general acts of violence.. People will chant the "end of the world", and try and live out their fantacies.

Step 4) Pragmatism: As the remaining loyalist military/police kills off the most violent offenders, the more remaining people are in three camps.

a) The "victims" that will not be able to recover on their own; they will need to be followers.
b) The "leaders", these will be people that will try and help out; working through the wake of disaster. These will be the optimisits. Being somewhat altruistic, they will fight for what they consider right, even in the face of dispair.
c) The selfish. These are people who will quickly surmise that it will take decades (if ever) to recover, and in the mean time, we will be living in the stone age. There will not be enough resources to sustain the remaining levels of population. Fresh water will be virtually non-existant due to polluting drainage, and lack of pump-work. Rain-water is likely to be hazardous, and possibly droubting. Thus the selfish will realize that if they forcibly coerse other's, the "leaders" (including the military) will have them killed. Thus they will subtly backstab, usurping power (at least within their community).

The problem is that only those smart enough to survive will become leaders. But as a follower, you can't be sure that your local leaders aren't secretly maliscious.

The fact of the matter is that people will die due to shortages, and in the face of this, the majority of people will act accordingly, even in the long run.

This will continue until either the population has dwindled to a sufficiently small group (which is unlikely given the then-newly-encouraged birthrate), or complex and corrupt power-systems will develop, which can contain the selfish class. Tyranical Dictatorships are the only systems that can contain anarchy. It is only given enough time and prosperity that benevolant systems can prevail.

In short, we're talking hundreds if not thousands of years to rebuild society.

If you're into apacolyptic tales, Revelation and Various profits (Nostradamus, etc) tend to talk about an apocalyptic aftermath which takes hundreds or thousands of years. So in short, I disagree that a cataclysmic event would have to be radio-enduced.

Re:no nuclear winter

[Quikah]

Not just people, some wild animals may survive too. What do you do when a mountain lion wants your lunch? Also hunting.

Re:no nuclear winter

[Dread_ed]

Which book of Revelation have you been reading?

Revelation states (among other things) that after a 7 year period of intense turmoil (called the tribulation), Christ comes back to earth and institutes perfect environment. This continues for 1000 years. Then at the end of 1000 years there is a huge war lasting a short time and then Christ causes the Earth to destroy itself completely through nuclear fission (Take a look at the Greek on this one, the details are AWESOME! Describes fission quite well.)

Then cretion of a new Heavens and a new Earth.

Nowhere does it describe a period of time where there is an "apocalyptic aftermath."

Re:no nuclear winter

[stmfreak]

Please buy guns, food and water with your excess cash before you decide to go camp out on the roof. That way those of us who choose to carry on the species will be able to pilfer through your things and live to fight another day.

Thanks.

Seriously.

Re:no nuclear winter

[maraist]

Generally the entire period is considered to be more than a few days, and contain more than a few tragedies. Exact timing, however, is somewhat of a farse. There are references to thousands of days and thousands of years being interchanged. You'd be hard press to interpret the timing literally (7 days of creation anyone? Or how about the Jehovah's Witnesses?)

That being said, I was actually more focusing on interpretations I'd read on Nostradamus.. It's been a while since I'd studied revelations.

I'm almost sorry I brought it up though, because this is a matter of faith (or lack thereof) and there's no end to such interpretation.

Re:no nuclear winter

[Dread_ed]

"and there's no end to such interpretation."

These words make me cringe like you cannot believe. Surely there is no end to the interpretation of the writings of Nostradamus...they happen to be confusing and oblique from almost any perspective.

However, if you again are referring to the book of Revelation, there is very little that is up for "interpretation." If one is to look at the original Greek language of the book, the meaning becomes clear to the point where "interpretation" is completely unnecessary.

As to the comment about timing, your reference to the Genesis account is a straw man. The issue of the timing of the Revelation account is undisputed and easily confirmed through many intra-biblical references starting in the old testament and continuing throughout the new as well.

Re:no nuclear winter

[ScottBob]

You got 'em right, but named 'em wrong and even left out a step. Every good Discordian knows there are 5 stages to a civilization's rise and fall.

What you wrote = Discordian equivalent

Step 1) Shock/Fear = Chaos
Step 2) Hysteria = Confusion
Step 3) Anarchy = Discord
Step 4) Pragmatism = Bureaucracy

Step 5) It's there, you just didn't name it:
This will continue until either the population has dwindled to a sufficiently small group (which is unlikely given the then-newly-encouraged birthrate), or complex and corrupt power-systems will develop, which can contain the selfish class. Tyranical Dictatorships are the only systems that can contain anarchy. It is only given enough time and prosperity that benevolant systems can prevail. This is what Discordians call Aftermath.

Then a cataclysm happens, whether natural or man-made, which starts the cycle all over again.

Re:no nuclear winter

[maraist]

These words make me cringe like you cannot believe.

I know and I appologize for bringing it up.. But since I've already gotten you to this level of interaction. I'll press my luck.

Surely there is no end to the interpretation of the writings of Nostradamus...they happen to be confusing and oblique from almost any perspective.

Agreed, I was referring to both "prophetic" works.

However, if you again are referring to the book of Revelation, there is very little that is up for "interpretation."

Wow, this was the kicker that made me want to reply. I've never actually met someone that felt this way.

In fact, I recall going through a very interesting "interpretation" which suggested that the entirety of Revelation was meant for the times and life of John and Christianity's great tribulation: Nero Caesar.

Not speaking greek, I can't attest to the "clearity" of which you speak, however I have gone through books that had greek on left, english on right, and was not as convinced as you.

As for the rest, I'll merely say that I have a problem with the phrase "undisputed" in relation to anything biblical. To attest to the correctness of a work is one thing, but to suggest that no-one has presented serious and succesful logical opposition is straining credibility. A work that makes an untestible claim is not free of scrutiny. It is no more "correct" than fiction.

Re:no nuclear winter

[Dread_ed]

Let me make an analogy that will help explain my position on the writings of the Bible and their "interpretation."

When you read a newspaper article and discuss it with someone your discussion is, usually, not about your "interpretation" of the article. Generally you discuss the facts of the article and correlate them to things that you know or feel and convey them to the other person. You can do this because you have a common background: the language you speak, your understanding of idiom and vernacular language, social conventions, the historical framework of the time in which you were raised, and the immersion in and awareness of current events. The reason that your attempts to use a Greek new testament and an Greek to English dictionary result in lack of clarity stems from the fact that many of the tools you need for proper translation are not all in the words when considered individually.

Idiomatic language, for one, can be a huge stumbling block. This is one of the things that make the English language so hard to learn if you are not born into it. Now look at Koine Greek, not only is it filled with idioms, but it also is sprinkled with other forms of Greek (Attic Greek and Ionic Greek) and their peculiar idioms as well, not to mention their verb tenses and grammatical differences.

Verb tenses are another problem in Greek. Consider the word "Tetelestai." Many translations say it means "It is finished." However, the verb tense conveys a different meaning. The true translation into English would look like this "It is finished now, with results that will continue forever." Not totally different, but much more precise, and furthermore, that is how it would be seen by someone who was Greek living in that day who read it or heard it.

Both verb tenses and idioms and all other things grammatical and definitional fall under the heading of exegesis. However, exegesis falls short of the mark in translation because it does not fully encompass the social customs, current events, and historical framework of the time in which the words were written. The study of those things is called isagogics. Without the proper understanding of isagogics, translation will fail miserably. Just imagine someone translating the front page of the newspaper of today a couple thousand years from now. Without knowledge of current events, much less knowledge of our political forms and climate, or about basic things like movies and television, they would not get far at all.

Fortunately, we have inherited and discovered innumerable documents that fill in our understanding of all the things we need to properly translate, exegetically and isagogically, the New Testament. However, the vast majority of people who go to Christian churches today do not have instruction by people who understand Greek or Hebrew, much less the intricacies and mechanics involved with the translation of the Bible. This does not negate the fact that the knowledge is extant and available. Lack of knowledge of the existence of something does not negate its existence. Unfortunately, I see many people argue from this viewpoint. Just because you have not seen/experienced/been exposed to/understood something does not make it untrue. If this were the case, no one would ever learn anything new.

The next part of understanding the Bible comes from the intra-Biblical references. The Bible is its own authority on many matters. By this I mean that it describes history, phenomena, mechanics, and knowledge that are not discussed in other works. Therefore, many of the authors of the individual books will continue where another author left off in another book or will speak with the assumption of knowledge in a certain category that is discussed elsewhere in the Bible. Without the proper understanding of the category or categories of knowledge that the author is currently speaking about, the passage will be meaningless or perplexing. However, in the right categorical context, it becomes illuminating.

With regard for the book of Revelation this pr

Alternate image

[morcheeba]

If the site is slashdotted, you can just download the full-resolution image [617.7 megabyte TIFF]

Re:Alternate image

[trmj]

my dialup is angry at you right now.

Re:Alternate image

[Carbonite]

Umm....how about a reasonably sized JPG, or anything that won't choke a horse. 617 MBs? Sweet Christ...

Re:Alternate image

[Joe the Lesser]

And now this link is /.ed. What server shall we destory next, Brain?

Re:Alternate image

[Edball]

If the site is slashdotted, you can just download the full-resolution image [617.7 megabyte TIFF] [nasa.gov]

Apparently their server wasn't quite liquidy enough? ;)

Re:Alternate image

[dattaway]

I would have reduced that picture down to a reasonable level for hosting, but my best computer doesn't have even half that much memory. And I don't think xv is able to parse a picture with that large of a footprint.

They have some nice computing equipment at NASA to generate an image that large.

Re:Alternate image

[micromoog]

[617.7 megabyte TIFF]

I take it that the "112 mile wide, 3000 foot deep impact crater" is actual size?

Re:Alternate image

[TequilaMonster]

How the heck do you view an image like that? What kind of machine do you need?

Hmm. Imagine a Beowulf

*click*

*boom*

NO CARRIER

Re:Alternate image

[mithras the prophet]

Since this is a dupe from last week, I had already downloaded the TIFF of the North America image, and converted it to a 1600x1200 JPEG.

You can grab it here.

Re:Alternate image

[catch23]

how does downloading an image half a gig in size help keep the server from being slashdotted?

Re:Alternate image

[Iamthefallen]

Yeah, dumbasses wanting to freely share information with the American public and the rest of the world! We showed them alright, suckers!

Really, what's the fun in intentionally Slashdotting a server? Would it be as humorous if we all had a couple bots and did a real DDOS? Really, tell me, cause I don't get it. Does it make you guys feel powerful or special?

Re:Alternate image

[Jugalator]

Just out of curiousity... What resolution was the original image?

Re:Alternate image

[Zathrus]

My coworker downloaded it this morning... something like 24000 x 14000. Well into the absurd category for any non-commercial use.

Re:Alternate image

[Anonymous Coward]

the srtm data just released for north america has 90 m resolution.

Re:Alternate image

[Amorpheus_MMS]

Isn't that just a *little* counterproductive? :D

/. as a verb.

[psychalgia]

bah, shes shut down already. anyone got the pics?

Re:Slashdotted...

[SlipJig]

No, it's still slashdotted from when this story was posted two days ago ;)

New meaning to NASA

[A_Non_Moose]

Now Another Slashdotting Attempt.

Re:New meaning to NASA

[SuiteSisterMary]

Not Another Stupid Acronym?

Never Abandon Space Adventures?

Re:New meaning to NASA

[Rysith]

or maybe: No! Another Slashdotting! Aargh!

Re:New meaning to NASA

[Shadow Wrought]

Hehehehe.

Amazingly how quickly the Challenger jokes were dusted off and re-inserted into popular parlance?

Re:New meaning to NASA

[Malc]

*chuckle* Yes. I'm guilty of being unoriginal. I must have hit the PC Nerve of some moderator too, and they reacted by modding me down below 1. Good job I didn't mention that they've switched Sprite at NASA as 7-Up was probing rather unpopular. Oh the crap jokes ;)

Re:New meaning to NASA

[Shadow Wrought]

I'm sure this will get modded into the nether regions, but my favorite (God awful as it is) was always,

Q: How many astronauts can you fit in a VW bug?

A: 11. 2 in the front, 2 in the back, and 7 in the ashtray.

Of course this time around, instead of being the kid in the room, I was the parental figure. SO I couldn't recite any of the half dozen jokes that instantly came to mind;-)

Re:Slashdotted...

[241comp]

Actually, it was "slashdotted" before it was posted here. I read it this morning and already then it was at a crawl. Could be because about 390 news articles already link to it?

Not Shown...

[Vampyre_Dark]

The crater that used to be their server before it was slashdotted.

Not a bad day...

[stereo_Barryo]

Actually it was a GOOD day for the earth as it got a major influx of material and upped its accretion rate, helping out in the race to be the biggest object orbiting the sun, though it still trails several other bodies, as of this writing. It WAS a BAD day for the life forms that inhabited the skin of the earth, but they didn't contribute a lot to the total mass. It WAS a GOOD day, though, for the minor life forms called mammals, as many of their predators and competitors were disposed of. Tough call on Good vs. Bad.

Re:Not a bad day...

[Drakonian]

In that case, I hope the next asteroid lands on your house!
(And that you don't live near me. ;)

Re:Not a bad day...

[Captain Nitpick]

Actually it was a GOOD day for the earth as it got a major influx of material and upped its accretion rate, helping out in the race to be the biggest object orbiting the sun, though it still trails several other bodies, as of this writing.

By the time of the Chicxulub impact, that race had already been decided for a few billion years.

Re:Not a bad day...

[jagilbertvt]

Want more karma? Consider responding to any post of mine! Never fails.

Well, lets give it a try shall we?

Thanks for the karma everyone!

Re:Not a bad day...

[Graff]

a GOOD day for the earth as it got a major influx of material and upped its accretion rate, helping out in the race to be the biggest object orbiting the sun, though it still trails several other bodies

Well, considering that the Earth tips the scales at 5.97x10^24 kg and that the next highest planet is Uranus at 86.8x10^24 kg, I'd say that the Earth doesn't have much of a chance. Oh well, at least we are ahead of Pluto, Mercury, Mars, and Venus.

(Information is found at The Planetary Fact Sheet - Metric, you can check out the US measures at The Planetary Fact Sheet - U.S..)

Re:Not a bad day...

[NixterAg]

Thanks for the postmodern version of the story.

Re:Not a bad day...

[AxelTorvalds]

Not to mention it was a good day because it killed off all those nasty lizard beasts!

Re:Not a bad day...

[moosesocks]

You've got to be kidding.

There's a tons of stuff wrong with this.

First of all, the asteroid probably didn't contriubute a substantial amount of material to the Earth. While I'm no physicist, a crater that size could be made by an object roughly the size of the Empire State Building or the Pentagon (or /.'s favorite metric measure: the LOC). In the large scale of things, this adds up to nothing. Correct me if i'm wrong.

It is largely agreed upon that most of the life on earth at the time of the collision was destroyed. But you're forgetting the biggest law of thermodynamics: CONSERVATION OF MASS. Just because the dinosaurs died, doesn't mean that the carbon atoms which composed their bodies disappeared... they were disintergrated into smaller carbon atoms collectively weighing the same as the original dinosaur.

Finally, I don't believe this helped the mammals very much. It's arguable that mammals didn't emerge until after the impact (think of it, a 50 foot reptile is more likely to survive ANYTHING than a badger.) In addition, the smaller reptiles and fish are argued to be some of the only remaining life left.

The earth was formed LONG before life emerged. I'm not sure where the 'race to be the biggest object orbiting the sun' thing came from....

Re:Not a bad day...

[TheKey]

I seek to disprove your theory.

Re:Not a bad day...

[Xerithane]

First of all, the asteroid probably didn't contriubute a substantial amount of material to the Earth. While I'm no physicist, a crater that size could be made by an object roughly the size of the Empire State Building or the Pentagon (or /.'s favorite metric measure: the LOC). In the large scale of things, this adds up to nothing. Correct me if i'm wrong.

It may have contributed some important elements, as well as providing climactic changes so that different organic material (like ferns, for instance, which took over after the impact) takes over. The estimate for the size of the meteor is ~6miles.

Finally, I don't believe this helped the mammals very much. It's arguable that mammals didn't emerge until after the impact (think of it, a 50 foot reptile is more likely to survive ANYTHING than a badger.) In addition, the smaller reptiles and fish are argued to be some of the only remaining life left.

This is intuitively incorrect. Most of the dinosaurs did not die out at the same time, as a cause of the asteroid. It happened when food supplies diminished and climates changed. A 50 foot reptile, that just had it's food supply (whether it be carnivore or omnivore) take a huge dip is going to be hard pressed to survive. In the mean time, a badger eats much less and can also scavange for all the dead meat laying around. Omnivores will thrive, because of the increase of vegetation after the initial shroud. There are many studies that show in the million years after the impact, vegetation thrived globally (especially ferns, which is just weird to me.)

As a little bit of trivia, the "scientist" (or greedy tax accountant killed in the French Revolution) who came up with the conservation of mass principle asked a simple question: Does slow burning a piece of metal, to cause rust and oxidization of the metal increase weight, keep the weight the same, or decrease weight? He found it increased in weight, after building a cool little mass conservation box, but the air weighed less.

It really is a shame he got his head chopped off, because he was a dedicated scientist and very meticulous in his work.

Re:Not a bad day...

[Graff]

Uranus's non-exponent (is that mantissa?) is 86.8, which should be 8.68, and the exponent be 25

Yeah, of course the mantissa (you were right about that) should be less than 10. The web site had the exponents of the measurements as the same magnitude because that makes comparison of each mantissa easier. That's better for a lay-person to compare the values here on Slashdot, but in a more technical forum I would keep to the rule of a mantissa being less than 10.

Re:Not a bad day...

[jagilbertvt]

It works! Wow, to think I didn't believe him.

Re:Not a bad day...

[stereo_Barryo]

> You've got to be kidding. I am. The post was tongue-in-cheek >There's a tons of stuff wrong with this. See above > But you're forgetting the biggest law of thermodynamics: CONSERVATION OF MASS. Just because the dinosaurs died, doesn't mean that the carbon atoms which composed their bodies disappeared... There was no such reference in my post. >The earth was formed LONG before life emerged. I'm not sure where the 'race to be the biggest object orbiting the sun' thing came from.... I invented that "race", that's where. How is your life better now that you know where it came from?

YellowStone Volcano as kill the dinosaurs

[denisbergeron]

It what I always believe.
No other disater was bigger than the YellowStone Volcano.

Re:Slashdotted...

[L0stb0Y]

Maybe it was a slashdoting that killed the...er nevermind.

Yeah, server is dead. Throw it in the crater...

(Hell, increase their budget so they can afford non-slashdottable servers)

LosT

Nope - Re:Alternate image

[Malc]

Those images have been timing out since before the first comments appeared.

So it killed the dinosaurs?

[Morgahastu]

But I thought that was the asteroid in India.

Or maybe it was the asteroid in the ocean.

Everytime they find evidence of a crater its always the one that killed the dinosaurs.

Re:So it killed the dinosaurs?

[KjetilK]

Nono. IANAG, but IIRC, there were three things that happened at the same time. One thing was that a big asteroid hit the Yucatan peninsula (and thats the crater they have been talking about the last few decades), the second thing was that India began to bump into the rest of Asia and created the Himalayas and stuff. That was pretty messy too. And the last thing I don't remember right now... I haven't read a lot about it lately, but I think I have an idea where I should go looking if I wanted to read up... :-)

In related news...

[Anonymous Coward]

Scientists have been unable to found any traces of intelligent life anywhere on that side of the planet.

Re:In related news...

[haa...jesus christ]

Scientists have been unable to found any traces of intelligent life anywhere on that side of the planet.

Apparently they have been unable to find any intelligent life on your side of the planet too.

Re:lucky to live in Europe

[geeber]

Last I checked, Mexico isn't part of the U.S. Yet. Perhaps we'll get to them next after we are done annexing Iraq, though.

GAAHHH!!

[Soko]

TIFF? 617 Megabyte? You moderators are cruel.

BTW, that's not a picture of a 112 mile wide, 3000 foot deep impact crater - that's an aerial view of what happened to the server when morcheeba's linkage comment was modded up so the whole of /. could see it. :-P

Soko

Crash?

[xanadu-xtroot.com]

Scientists believe the impact, which was centered just off the coast in the Caribbean, altered the subsurface rocks such that the overlying limestone sediments, which formed later and erode very easily, would preferentially erode on the vicinity of the crater rim.

Wait. So nothing's really changed. So they are basically still saying that the Gulf of Mexico is the "real" meteor crash site and not this dimple... Hmmm... let's see, let's keep reading:

This formed the trough as well as numerous sinkholes (called cenotes) which are visible as small circular depressions.

Ummm... yup. This is a sink-hole, a dimple in the earth caused by the sudden crash/explosion NEAR BY. This is not the crash site. I wish people would read the damn articles before even submitting them to the editors (and that opens another can of worms there, but I digress...).

Re:Crash?

[immybaby]

The Chicxulub data show a subtle, yet unmistakable, topographic indication of the impact crater's outer boundary: a semicircular trough 3 to 5 meters (10 to 15 feet) deep and 5 kilometers (3 miles) wide. Scientists believe the impact, centered off Yucatan's coast in the Caribbean, disturbed the subsurface rocks, making them unstable. The rocks were subsequently buried by limestone sediments, which erode easily. The crater rim's instability caused the limestone to fracture along the rim, forming the trough. In addition, the collapse of numerous limestone caverns above the crater rim resulted in an arcing chain of sinkholes, called cenotes, that are visible as small, circular depressions. The image linked at the top of the page _is_ of the Yucatan Peninsula (i.e. the Chicxulub crater and surroundings). The image is of this crater (yes the same one that was proposed before), and the article states the boundary of the crater rim consists of these sinkholes.

Re:Crash?

[immybaby]

The Chicxulub data show a subtle, yet unmistakable, topographic indication of the impact crater's outer boundary: a semicircular trough 3 to 5 meters (10 to 15 feet) deep and 5 kilometers (3 miles) wide. Scientists believe the impact, centered off Yucatan's coast in the Caribbean, disturbed the subsurface rocks, making them unstable. The rocks were subsequently buried by limestone sediments, which erode easily. The crater rim's instability caused the limestone to fracture along the rim, forming the trough. In addition, the collapse of numerous limestone caverns above the crater rim resulted in an arcing chain of sinkholes, called cenotes, that are visible as small, circular depressions.

The image linked at the top of the page _is_ of the Yucatan Peninsula (i.e. the Chicxulub crater and surroundings). The image is of this crater (yes the same one that was proposed before), and the article states the boundary of the crater rim consists of these sinkholes.

Re:Crash?

[UOZaphod]

So much for reading the article... If you go to the original new s release, you will notice a picture clearly captioned "Chicxulub impact crater region, Yucatan Peninsula, Mexico".

The picture also clearly shows the center of the impact being just off the coast of the Yucatan Peninsula, and not in the middle of the Gulf of Mexico.

Re:Crash?

[xanadu-xtroot.com]

impact being just off the coast of the Yucatan Peninsula

And what is just off the coast of the Yucatan Peninsula?
Hmmm...

Re:Crash?

[xanadu-xtroot.com]

oh god I wish I could take that back...

sorry...

Re:Crash?

[reallocate]

This is an image of the Chicxulub impact site. The sinkholes outline the perimeter. How'f you get from This formed the trough as well as numerous sinkholes... to calling the crater "a sinkhole"?

Re:Interesting....

[XianDeath]

Which was only to say that when I initially attempted to acccess the primary link, the above text was exactly what I got. Unfortunate that in my haste to spread the frustration of what appeared to be a dead site, I've been mod'ed down to offtopic... oh well. Must... explicate... more...

Re:Slashdotted...

[trmj]

that's not that bad of a thing. really.

look at the size of garden hose, and then look at the size of a phone wire. if properly threaded, the number of wire that could fit into a garden hose would make for a great amount of bandwidth, even though it would only be like an isdn line.

perhaps filling the hose with optics would be better. either way, a garden hose is big enough to produce quite a bit of bandwidth.

yea but what about california/nevada/arizona ??

[romerom]

Have you ever looked at one of them maps that shows elevation of the united states.. more specifically look closer at california, nevada and arizona.. the rocky mountains like a half circle where southern california is kinda in the center.. kinda looks like it could have been a huge volcano or something or maybe a giant crater from a meteor

Hush hush

[E_elven]

Ha! Craters in North America.. finally it was proven! I've suspected for long that it indeed was the honorable G.W. Bush who released us from the horrible death regime of the dinosaurs!

Re:Hush hush

[mark_lybarger]

yep, those dinosaurs certainly had posession of "wepons of mass destruction" and were unwilling to prove they were disarming said "wepons of mass destruction". they were suspected to harbor unidentified terrorists and when they could not produce a single terrorist they were harboring or a "wepon of mass destruction" (that phrase has long past the austin powers phase) they indeed needed to be eliminated!

Does anyone else see the irony...

[allism]

...of a post about an article being a dupe being modded redundant?

Oh, yeah, I'm killin my karma now...

Not another one...

[Junior J. Junior III]

Just how many asteroid impacts does it take to wipe out the dinosaurs, anyway? They find a new one every other month, it seems.

Re:Not another one...

[TequilaMonster]

17 meteor strikes and counting, or one /.'ing.

Take yer pick ;P

Re:Not another one...

[Anthony]

It's the media that adds the "this killed the dinosaurs" hype to it. They merely find evidence of collisions, but it's near impossible to accurately date them.

I am not sure about the impossibility story. Reworking of the surrounding and subsequently formed rock structures certainly makes it difficult. For example, if one can put date on rocks that were obviously disturbed by the impact, this puts a "floor" on the oldest time of the impact. Difficult, but not impossible.

Many of the craters probably predate all life on earth. Maybe one of em is the one that split off the big chunk of rock that we call the Moon now.

Here is some ideas on how we got the moon. An impact of that size would have obliterated most of the outer surface of the [much larger than today's earth] proto-earth. Of course this is just a hypothesis, but it does seem to correlate with observed data. It also can be used to explain the tilt in the earth's axis.

Harkens back to the Niven discussion...us against

[TerraFORM]

the universe. Someone had commented that there is really no compelling reason for human space exploration at this time. Sure, statistically such occurrences are exceedingly rare, but does that argue for or against human spaceflight? If one of these rogues happens along, the whole species is in danger. We sure as heck need to be established somewhere off-planet or go the way of the dinosaurs mentioned in the story. I say, that is your goddam reason for human spaceflight, at the very least.

I didn't get the pics, but I did get the text.

[SirLantos]

Original Caption Released with Image: This shaded relief image of Mexico's Yucatan Peninsula show a subtle, but unmistakable, indication of the Chicxulub impact crater. Most scientists now agree that this impact was the cause of the Cretatious-Tertiary Extinction, the event 65 million years ago that marked the sudden extinction of the dinosaurs as well as the majority of life then on Earth.

Most of the peninsula is visible here, along with the island of Cozumel off the east coast. The Yucatan is a plateau composed mostly of limestone and is an area of very low relief with elevations varying by less than a few hundred meters (about 500 feet.) In this computer-enhanced image the topography has been greatly exaggerated to highlight a semicircular trough, the darker green arcing line at the upper left corner of the peninsula. This trough is only about 3 to 5 meters (10 to 15 feet) deep and is about 5 km. wide (3 miles), so subtle that if you walked across it you probably would not notice it, and is a surface expression of the crater's outer boundary. Scientists believe the impact, which was centered just off the coast in the Caribbean, altered the subsurface rocks such that the overlying limestone sediments, which formed later and erode very easily, would preferentially erode on the vicinity of the crater rim. This formed the trough as well as numerous sinkholes (called cenotes) which are visible as small circular depressions.

Two visualization methods were combined to produce the image: shading and color coding of topographic height. The shade image was derived by computing topographic slope in the northwest-southeast direction, so that northwestern slopes appear bright and southeastern slopes appear dark. Color coding is directly related to topographic height, with green at the lower elevations, rising through yellow and tan, to white at the highest elevations.

Elevation data used in this image were acquired by the Shuttle Radar Topography Mission (SRTM) aboard the Space Shuttle Endeavour, launched on Feb. 11, 2000. SRTM used the same radar instrument that comprised the Spaceborne Imaging Radar-C/X-Band Synthetic Aperture Radar (SIR-C/X-SAR) that flew twice on the Space Shuttle Endeavour in 1994. SRTM was designed to collect 3-D measurements of the Earth's surface. To collect the 3-D data, engineers added a 60-meter (approximately 200-foot) mast, installed additional C-band and X-band antennas, and improved tracking and navigation devices. The mission is a cooperative project between NASA, the National Imagery and Mapping Agency (NIMA) of the U.S. Department of Defense and the German and Italian space agencies. It is managed by NASA's Jet Propulsion Laboratory, Pasadena, Calif., for NASA's Earth Science Enterprise, Washington, D.C.

Hey wait a minute...

[Bvardi]

For the sake of tradition, shouldn't we be blaming microsoft for the death of the dinosaur? :) (And for that matter pointing out that linux helps prevent system crashes of this magnitude ;)

Re:Slashdotted...

[trmj]

oh. well where's the fun in that? :-

You just posted a link to a 617M image...

[verch]

Worst slashdot effect... ever.

Re:Fool!

[Anonymous Coward]

Heresy! There has never been such a thing as a 'dinosaur'. Those rock formations that appear in the shapes of plant and animal remains were put there by God to test the faithful. Also, the Earth is flat and the celestial orbs revolve around it.

While it does not have these particular pictures

[SquadBoy]

here is yet another government server for us to destroy. It has many similar pretty thing for you to look at.

http://photojournal.wr.usgs.gov

partial mirrors

[cetan]

I managed to save some of the two catalog pages here:

http://www.phule.net/mirrors/PIA03379.html
and
http://www.phule.net/mirrors/PIA03377.html

PIA03379.html has the 1.5MB image.

No, I'm not going to try and mirror the 600+MB TIFF file :)

Re:partial mirrors

[cetan]

Shoot. Links would be nice, wouldn't they?

http://www.phule.net/mirrors/PIA03379.html
and
http://www.phule.net/mirrors/PIA03377.html

Re:Ignorant question

[FuzzyBad-Mofo]

I'm no scientist but it seems to me that a comet that big would throw the earth out of it's orbit. Why haven't we crashed into the sun yet?

I'm no scientist either, but who's to say it didn't move Earth from it's orbit? I'm sure an impact of that magnitude would affect the speed, attitude, spin, and position of the planet to some extent.

However, let's not assume that it would push the planet closer to the sun. It would be just as likely to push it away, or into an eccentric orbit. It probably took millions of years but Earth's orbit seems to have stabilized, perhaps due to gyroscopic effects?

Re:Dead Site

[rusty spoon]

Will you post a link to it on slashdot?

Re:What business model?

[Tailhook]

Let's see... Your compelling reason for Space exploration is to discover and provide warning of biblical size impact events. To whom do you suppose the bill should be sent?

This isn't a flame. If a workable business model exists it could actually happen. Without this, however, it's hand waving. Perhaps the "global conscience" should be above such matters but it's not.

Why we shouldn't worry about another impact

[zaqattack911]

Logically thinking, since we evolved directly from the remaining 30% of life on the planet after the comet impact, wouldn't we be a likely survivor of subsequent 'extinction level' impacts?

It's all about evolution baby:)

Re:Why we shouldn't worry about another impact

[belg4mit]

Except that what survived were things like
mice and roaches, not pigs, cows and monkeys.
In any event while the species might survive,
the majority of the individuals would not.

Re:Ignorant question

[Kintanon]

Here is an excersise you may perform in order to determine just how much a meteor would affect the earth. First, get a cueball, now get a small round marble. Now, fire the marble at the cueball at varying velocities. Observe the motion of the cueball.
Draw your own conclusions about how far the earth might have been adjusted by an approximately scaled object impacting it at an approximately scaled velocity.

Kintanon

Main site-links.

[Anonymous Coward]

What about the rest?

And yes I have a copy of the 30MB sized one already (I'm not crazy enought to download the CD sized one).

PIA03381:Shaded Relief with Height as Color and Landsat, Yucatan Peninsula, Mexico[30.85MB]
PIA03380:Anaglyph, Yucatan Peninsula, Mexico[5.193MB]
PIA03378:Anaglyph, North America[208.5MB]
PIA03377:Shaded Relief with Height as Color, North America[208.5MB]
PIA03379:Shaded Relief with Height as Color, Yucatan Peninsula, Mexico[617.7MB]

BTW wget is your friend. :)

Re:Main site-links.

[BollocksToThis]

I think it's no coincidence that these enormous images are all prefixed with 'PIA'.

Mirror

[immybaby]

Here is an annotated mirror which should help: Image

Re:Ignorant question

[Daniel Dvorkin]

Except that the scales involved are more like "grain of sand" and "bowling ball." It is very, very hard to get the grain of sand to a velocity that will affect the bowling ball much.

I think people tend to forget just how much of the Earth is solid (or molten) rock. The entire ecosphere -- from the depths of the ocean to the top of Everest -- is a very thin skin. An asteroid impact that can have a biological effect will still do very little to the planet in a geological or astronomical sense.

Re:For those in Syracuse,NY or Rochester, NY

[llamalicious]

You betcha man!

In fact, next time I'm @ Dino I'll have to suggest they add another option to the rib menu:
1/4, 1/2, 3/4, Full, or Crater Sized rack of ribs.

Hell, it's only Karma!

[JOKE] Re:Dino Deaths

[ardiri]

it could also be because of the introduction of the new bread of gay/homosexual dinosaurs - the megasoraus and the likalotofpus.

Great resolution

[siphoncolder]

*zooms in on the 600MB+ TIFF*

Wow... I think I can see my house from here...

Re:What business model?

[mmol_6453]

That's not how I read his comment...

He was trying to point out that every human in existance resides on Earth, and that makes humans, as a species, vulnerable.

We should put humans in places other than Earth.

As far as the bill goes, I think it should go to the largest purveyour of the population that wants to send up the seeds.

Not to be a party pooper

[sunking2]

But if I wanted I really wanted I could play with the color schemes enough to make the virgin mary's face appear in the yukatan. They could have just as easily made this photo appear that Mount Doom exhisted off the coast of Mexico.

Tell people to look for the man in the moon and they will. Or a rabbit.

Not that I don't believe this, I'm just pointing out that all of these digitally enhanced photos, be it from this or the hubbell, or whatever are just that. Enhanced.

Just food for thought.

Quick trip to off-topic land...

[FamedLamer]

No thank you. If The End comes, I'm killing as many as I can. Food will be in short supply, so I might as well rid us of as many mouths a possible.

Rape is high on my todo list also: need to get busy recreating man-kind.

Once its safe to crawl back out into the open, I'll need to spread as many lies as possible too. I'll need to start laying down the foundation for mankinds' new religion too. Lots of fun work to do.

In the begining, FamedLamer created the heavens and the Earth^H^H^H^H^H LamerOrb....

/. of NASA

[uchi]

Is it just me, or have we slashdotted everything under the nasa domain name. I can't even get the main nasa.gov page to load :(

So it's confirmed.

[Trogre]

The US really is a hole.

Dinosaurs?? Yellowstone volcano will kill US

[saudadelinux]

It pretty much could happen anytime.

http://www.solcomhouse.com/yellowstone.htm

for maps and other graphics and

http://www.bbc.co.uk/science/horizon/1999/superv ol canoes_script.shtml

for the transcript of the BBC's program. The truly scary part is the correlation of the Toba supervolcano 74K ago, and a human genetic bottleneck which happened around the same time -
a bottleneck caused by not enough of a gene pool. That one nearly took us out, and the next one, who knows?

Actually, C-14 dating works to 40000 years ago...

[horse_pheathers]

Carbon 14 is good for dating organic matter up to around 40000 years old... But there are other means of dating on a geological time scale. Forinstance, when certain minerals are melted and then cooled, they form with a crystalline structure aligned to the earth's magnetic field. By taking into account shifts in the alignment, the known rate of continental drift, comparisons to other nearby rock layers, etc, you can get a pretty good idea when those rocks initially cooled. Also, you can use radioactive elements with longer half lives than carbon-14 to date rocks, by comparing the ratio of that element to its decay products within the rock. This is what most often gets confused with radio-carbon dating, due to both techniques' reliance on radioactive isotopes. And don't forget just looking at the rock strata.... -- Horse_Pheathers

Pity for the dinosaurs....

[horse_pheathers]

Pity for the dinosaurs they didn't have Bruce Willis and his deep core drilling team around to save 'em from the killer asteroid.....

-- Horse_Pheathers

Indeed

[LPetrazickis]

I'm going to unleash them babies tomo...

Oops, you aren't supposed to know that I'm Your God yet.

Uhm...

This is obviously another case of exploding gas mains that only sounded like me admitting to being God. Now, good netizens, if you would only look into the laser of your optical mice, we'll have the matter cleared up in a jiffy.:)

Viewable Pics here

[Hecubas]

Just to the project's main page: http://www.jpl.nasa.gov/srtm/

Better than trying to download TIFFs that your system will choke on anyways.

--
hecubas

If this is where the meteor hit the earth...

[CAIMLAS]

If this is where the meteor hit the earth, where's the meteor? We see all these impact crators, but nobody seems to have found - or at least mention having found - the meteor. It must've been one huge SOB, so why haven't they found it?

Could this (looking for a crater hole) be akin to something like seeing shapes and animals in the clouds? Or along the lines of finding the face of a man on mars? Topography is very diverse and complex, and there are millions of weird variations on the earth. There's a large crater in the Sea of Japan, too - has this one been discredited as causing the great evolutionary distinction of the dinosaurs?

What if - maybe - these "caters" weren't caused by meteorites or comets, or anything like that at all? What if they're something like 'sink holes' (not the right term - what I'm thinking of are the holes that are made by fresh-water springs) that once spewed up large amounts of water to flood the earth? (another extinction theory that's equally plauseable, it's just that people disvow it because it 'supports' creationism) These 'craters' could be the result of water flowing back into the sinkhole after this flood (caused by high-presure volcanic action?), bringing large amounts of soil with them - the water had to go somewhere, right?

If anyone has links or other information on where these craters went, I'd be glad to see them. It's pretty obvious to me that something that big doesn't just disappear.

Re:If this is where the meteor hit the earth...

[cranos]

Oookkay, so what you're saying is that all the craters in the world were made by giant geysers, set there by god to flood the world. To paraphrase a dodgy movie - "Show me the water." Where in the crust of the planet has their been discovered a body of water large enough to flood the planet a la Noahs Ark(if that is what you are referring to).

Most meteor craters are thousands if not millions of years old, and in that time they have been weathered down, especially if they are under water. As to the actual meteorite itself, when it impacts with the surface it doesn't stay in one piece, it explodes, scattering pieces of itself over a radius of hundreds to thousands of miles if it is big enough. The core does manage to bury itself into the ground but what is left is nowhere the size of the original object.

The Meteorite theory of the destruction of the Dinosaurs is just that, a theory, however at the moment it is the theory which more closely fits the facts as we know them. Who knows, another theory may come along which gains main stream acceptance, but for now I'm going to stick with the big rock falling on dinosaurs head theory, it makes more sense than the giant flood theory.

Re:If this is where the meteor hit the earth...

[Anonymous Coward]

the vast majority of the impactor would have been either vaporized or shattered into tiny pieces (dust sized) by the deceleration and the conversion of kinetic energy to heat.

the yucatan (and other) impact craters that have been identified on earth are identified as impacts not just by their morphology! in fact the yucatan crater was not "seen" until after they inferred that it was there.

the other evidence includes geochemistry (such as the famous irridium "anomalies people like to bring up), tektites (tiny globs of glass caused by the impact), "shocked" quartz (in which the crystal structure has been severely modified by the stresses caused by the impact), coesite at the surface (coesite is a high-pressure polymorph of quartz usually only found in rocks deep in the crust), tsunami deposits (caused by the giant "tidal" wave resulting from an impact into shallow ocean), etc.

Re:If this is where the meteor hit the earth...

[norite]

The reason we don't usually get to see the original meteor is simply because it has been vapourised in the intense heat caused by impact ;) If you think about it, these things may be travelling at about 150 000km/h, and all that kinetic energy needs to go somewhere, so it gets transferred to heat energy - here's an experiment you can perform in your garage - strike a metal plate with a sledgehammer several times (wear ear protection!) not only might you see sparks fly, but feel the plate and hammer afterwards - it will be hot. Meteorites usually contain high concentrations of Platinum Group Elements (PGE's) e.g. rhodium, palladium, and platinum. They also contain relatively high concentrations of irridium relative to earth because these bodies haven't had the chance to chemically differentiate them through the forces of gravity. Moreover, they have different isotope ratio's when compared with terrestial PGE's - this is how you know if it's terrestrial or not! Now, when the impact event occurs, the atoms don't get destroyed, they get transferred to the target material. (you can vapourise the impactor, sure, but you can't destroy the atoms) So you can look for these signatures geochemically, and in some cases you can even tell what type of meteorite hit the earth (stoney, iron or carbonaceous chondrite) Reference: McDonald, I (2002): Clearwater East impact structure: A re-interpretation of the projectile type using new platinum-group element data from meteorites, Meteoritics and Planetary Science, vol.37 459-464

Re:If this is where the meteor hit the earth...

[gilleyj]

Actually, by your logic, where are all the meteors and other things that have hit the moon. There are bunches of craters there. And not one big meteor sitting in the middle. Actually, quite a bit of research into this crater has been done, there is a layer of a material (compacted dust, the actual material I cannot remember. Nickel and ferrite maybe.) all over the globe which roughly coincides with the estimated impact date. This "layer" seems to be thicker around the geographical regions near the impact site. Oh right, what about that crater in Arizona? Where's the rock that made that? My point is, albeit a bad one, there are some basic laws regarding transfer of energy (some physics major or 8th grader could tell you what they are) which basically dictate that the earth is this really big huge heavy rock. And you hit that rock with basically a little rock, something's gotta give. Typically the little rock. So either it gets liquified or what not. Where's the proof? Fire a lead pellet into a brick of lead at a very very high rate of speed. What do you get? A crater in the lead block, a fine coating around and in that crater of the lead that made up your pellet. How do we know it's not a sink hole? Because of the make up of the material's around an impact site that do not coincide with the native materials of the geological area?

Re:If this is where the meteor hit the earth...

[CAIMLAS]

This makes much more sense than the foolhardy "it vaporized" replies, thanks.

Something big enough to make a crater isn't going to vaporize. Break up or tunnel, sure. But not 'vaporize'.

Re:What business model?

[cranos]

Why did you mention a business model? Frankly space exploration is and should be above the almighty dollar. As I have said before if we could set up a truly International Space Agency with contributions from every nation on the planet then we would be getting a hell of a lot further along than we are at the moment.

But thats just me I suppose, silly me for believing that the continuation of the species is a good thing.

Re:For those in Syracuse,NY or Rochester, NY

[autojive]

Modded as Flamebait? I guess some mod out there didn't get the reference.

*sigh*

Houston, we have a problem...

[Znonymous Coward]

Our NASA servers have been /.ed

More Interesting...

[suchire]

I personally want to know more about the Cambrian extinction. Almost all life on earth was wiped out by that, but we really have almost no idea what caused it. All those cute little trilobites...gone!

..which has yet to be proved...

[Thorstein]

Deep impact, though an okay hollywood version, is not necessarily the ONLY theory about what happened to the dinosaurs. THorstein

Carbonic acid?

[Unknown Poltroon]

I know that when the himalays first poped up, that much raw limestone being eroded took some co2 out of the air when the acid in rainwater ate it away. OCuld that much limestone added tot eh water do the same thing over a large area? SO not just nuclear winter, but the climate gasses permanetly changed?

Re:YOU FUCKING CANADIAN THEIF!!!

[Ironix]

Actually NO, I didn't steal it from there...

Rick Mercer on "This Hour has 22-Minutes" did that rant on CBC television some months back.

Rick Mercer was inproperly attributed as the author, but apparantly Rick Mercer states he did not write the piece, nor does he know the source.

Asteroids? Since When?

[Mars Ultor]

I was under the impression that EXTINCTION was what wiped out the dinosaurs.

Re:Asteroids? Since When?

[Anonymous Coward]

that's as useless as saying "death is what made that guy die".

Clear-cutting

[blair1q]

Look closely at the vegetation in that area.

The different shaded green blocks are too large to be JPG artifacts.

I'm guessing they are clear-cutting.

Re:Clear-cutting

[blair1q]

Get one of the hi-res images (GIF or PICT or TIFF) of the Yucatan from the NASA site mentioned in the article.

Zoom into the East rim of the crater where it
meets the ocean. You'll see what looks like JPG artifacts as polygons in the green expanse, but they're gigantic and show up on the uncompressed images.

The fact that they're regular and it's an elevation map makes it all the more certain it's man-made clear-cut activity.

Echelon confirms my day has been worse

[Sir Network]

Screw NASA's findings.
Today I lost my job and my girlfriend.
Astronauts have **nothing** on my government.

Re:Lets break asteroid into 2 pieces, for CA and F

[Ironix]

When I was referring to the 'markets' I was not specifically quoting the currency markets, but if you want to be that way...

Check out the 2-year chart for Canadian Dollars vs. US Dollars.

Looks to me like our Canadian dollar is moving up quite quickly, it is almost as though it were becomming an upward trend!... Don't mind me, I am a market analyst.

Isn't incredible mother nature?

[rrobles]

The same place where the "mother of all asteroids" hit the earth and created such hard to imagine destruction is today one of the most beautiful places on earth: Cancun, Cozumel and the Caribbean. Do we know the truth?

Re:Lets break asteroid into 2 pieces, for CA and F

[Ironix]

"So basically, you Canadiaians still want to be Americans, but you won't say so because saying so, would mean we were right all along. You are too envious to let us know for sure that we won. But that's OK, because we already know."

Actually, it is our greatest fear, that of becoming American or Americanised. We prefer not to live in a perpetual state of fear.

Re:Lets break asteroid into 2 pieces, for CA and F

[Anonvmous Coward]

"A major reason for your GDP is because your country was founded on slave labour; helping it become the richest country in the world in no time at all."

When slavery was at it's peak, the US wasn't so 'rich'. That didn't happen until well after slavery was completely abolished.

Re:Lets break asteroid into 2 pieces, for CA and F

[norite]

Well, at least the Canadians can get it together to give universal healthcare to ALL of their citizens nad not waste so much of it on bombs and the military. (America's military budget is $400 thousand million per year - that's a disgrace) During my visits to america, I was struck by the number of poor, homeless people I saw. For such a rich powerful country, this was a surprise. I lived in canada for a while, and let me say that this is the BEST place ever. I've been both sides of the border, and I know where I'd rather live :) Mod me down, call me a troll, whatever, I don't care, but those 28 million who live on your northern border will know what I mean when I say that Canada is a BRILLIANT place :) GO CANADA!!!

Re:Lets break asteroid into 2 pieces, for CA and F

[TheKey]

I live in America. I've only been to Canada once (Niagra Falls). Let me just say that the grass IS greener on the other side (speaking of Canada as the other side) :D

Re:Lets break asteroid into 2 pieces, for CA and F

[sethr]

Ironix should acknowledge that his post is taken from Rick Mercer's CBC show This Hour Has 22 Minutes.

As for Anonymous Coward, well as a United States citizen, I can only apologize.

Seth

Re:What's the ladder for?

[antis0c]

Get on my roof of course, I need a good view. :)

Re:Lets break asteroid into 2 pieces, for CA and F

[Iguanaphobic]

Why then do 90% of you live with in 100 miles of the US border?

It's called climate. You'd know that if you'd been awake in social studies.

Why do you drive our cars?

Actually, GM and Ford make a lot of cars in Canada. Which you'd know if you'd been awake during economics.

Eat our food?

Actually, we mainly eat whale blubber and Tim Horton's donuts. Neither of which you'd know anything about.

And invest in our markets?

Actually, we own your markets so technically, you're investing in our markets.

Because you secretly want to be Americans.. or some of you think your French.

See the above post about George Bush.

Your a weak, helpless country. You should be God Damn happy that you live in our shaddow. No one would attack you or put sanctions on you. You owe your big brother a little respect instead of *trying* to back stab US in a resultless attempt to become a player in the big leagues. When that private shipping company releases 18% of your military for shipping payments you didn't pay, then maybe you can get in line to open your mouth.

Serge, shut off the water and turn off the lights. Winter is almost over and the natives down south are getting uppity again.

Shit, three of our states have bigger GDPs than your whole fucking nation!

And three times the poverty, gangs, teenage pregnancy, property crime, prison populations, sick people because they can't afford healthcare, grade nine dropouts (per capita, look it up), shall I continue? $$$ mean fuck all to quality of life or humanity of civilization.

Sit down you monkey with a small mustache.

Ouch, you got me, that hurt. I'm gonna cry now.

Homo sapiens neanderthalensis.

Re:Lets break asteroid into 2 pieces, for CA and F

[Iguanaphobic]

Where's Canadia? I can't find it on the map. Oh... you meant Canada...

Re:Slashdotted...

[Iguanaphobic]

If we ever get out of this fireswamp...

Re:ABOVE ARTICLE CONTAINS A GOATSEX LINK!

[stormraven]

If you think that's cool you'll LOVE this: Coolest site around

Un-doing the Slashdot effect

[Anonymous Coward]

OK folks ... I think we may have a Band-Aid® "fix" for the dreaded Slashdot Effect on the NASA PhotoJournal.

What you have to understand is that the NASA PhotoJournal is not really intended for "casual users" as a rule. It's really more oriented towards researchers. Thus, you'll find, it was easy to download full-resolution TIFFs, and the stuff like JPEGs and GIFs was really somewhat of an afterthought. Meaning, basically, that methods (cgi-bin) were provided to create those JPEG images on the fly, from pull-down menus.

Basically, part of the "Slashdotting" of the machine was the CPU being eaten alive by all that cgi-bin on-the-fly conversion stuff.

What we've done (Band-Aid® fix) is to change the interface to be more "user friendly" until a final decision is made on how to orient the site - namely, what this means is that each page will now have a thumb, and clicking on the thumb will get you a modest-sized (pre-cached, not on-the-fly) JPEG image. The original full-sized TIFF image will be available from the menu on the lower-right of the page. In addition, full-scale JPEGs are currently being generated on a back-end machine, so when those are done, they'll be transferred over and then a link/menu entry for getting the full-sized JPEGs will be provided as well as the TIFF link.

While the load average is still high, I think responsiveness should be doing better now.

(Just for fun, in case you've never been /.'ed, there's about 9,000-12,000 HTTP packets going back and forth every second at the moment, according to tcpdump.)

You're missing two steps

[Burpmaster]

Step 5) ???
Step 6) Profit!

About the iridium anomaly and mass extinctions

[Anonymous Coward]

For the record:

Iridium is found on the Earth, but only in small quantities. The iridium anomaly is a band of clay greatly enriched in iridium over background levels.

Earthly processes can concentrate iridium, even on fairly large scales, but not even approaching the degree needed to explain the very high levels observed, let alone the world wide extent of the enrichment.

It's also worth pointing out that not all non-earthly bodies are enriched in iridium, so it's possible to suffer an impact event without iridium enrichment.

On the subject of mass extinctions and impacts: most of the notable mass extinctions in the Earth's history have apparently not been caused by impacts. Really large extinctions are fairly rare (depending on how you count, there are about five really big ones), and comet/asteroid impacts are much, much, more common.

It's possible that this paricular impact was especially disasterous because it hit close to North America where most of the dinosaurs lived, it was a very large impact, it hit in the ocean which generated exceptionally large tsunamis as well as water vapor, it hit limestone which was vaporized to produce CO2, and there was gypsum or anhydrite interbedded with the limestone which would have produced unpleasant sulfur compounds including sulfuric acid rain...but that's hardly the whole story. Still, it is a rather unpleasant start.

- Anonymous Coward

Lavos

[TheCubic]

Yeah, that was where I had to fight Lavos a couple of years ago. Tough bastard -- too bad killing it created an alternate dimension...

Re:In other related news....

[Anthony]

Cars: Certainly not the US. Try Daimler-Benz in Germany for the oldest manufacturer. Somewhere in Europe I'm told.

Re:Lets break asteroid into 2 pieces, for CA and F

[Anonvmous Coward]

"Actually, it is our greatest fear, that of becoming American or Americanised. We prefer not to live in a perpetual state of fear."

Liar.

Vulcanism

[ArmorFiend]

Mod this guy's parent up please.

Re:Lets break asteroid into 2 pieces, for CA and F

[byron150]

We have to spend all that money on our Military you goddamn idiots!!!!!! Who the fuck do you think would save your ass if the shit happened to hit the fan right over your goddamned heads. Stupid Canadian Fucks ;) !!!!

Re:Lets break asteroid into 2 pieces, for CA and F

[stanmann]

Well, if you don't allow people to be very poor, they can have no desire to be very rich. When I reached age 21, I was expected to provide my own food, clothing and health care, or go without. MY CHOICE. In Canada, there is no choice. therefore no opportunity.

Re:Lets break asteroid into 2 pieces, for CA and F

[Craig Davison]

Don't worry, you can choose to go without clothing and food in Canada if you want. (??)

Well, if you don't allow people to be very poor, they can have no desire to be very rich.

You're a libertarian, so you probably believe that. Sure. But anyway, what does that have to do with Canada? We have lots of homeless people, and lots of really really rich people too. Does that clear things up?

Re:What business model?

[Tailhook]

Frankly space exploration is and should be above the almighty dollar.

Sigh. The operative word there is should. What should be and what is are two quite distinct matters.

If you wish to see phenomenal progress in Space, find a way to make it turn a profit. You'll live to witness contract negotiations between businesses and astronaut unions.

As I have said before if we could set up a truly International Space Agency with contributions from every nation on the planet then we would be getting a hell of a lot further along than we are at the moment.

A "truly international" Space Agency would spend most of it's time squabbling over which country gets the rocket contracts and how much launch facility compensation must be paid.

Re:What business model?

[cranos]

A "truly international" Space Agency would spend most of it's time squabbling over which country gets the rocket contracts and how much launch facility compensation must be paid.

Funny that sounds exactly like the way it happens now, only replacing nation states with US States. I never said it would be easy, it will need strong leadership and a hands off approach from the pollies (I know I know) but it could happen.