Slashdot Mirror
Peer Pressure Porn Filter
Highwayman writes "Wired magazine presents one man's approach to stopping online pr0n 'Instead of relying on filters, the approach, which NetAccountability has been pitching primarily to religious groups, calls for Web users to share records of their online activity. Users pick a friend, spouse or other confidant who receives a regular report showing which sites they visit, highlighting potentially objectionable material.'"
Think of it as a new way of recommending sites to your friends :)
To make laws that man cannot, and will not obey, serves to bring all law into contempt.
--E.C. Stanton
why would someone willingly subject themselves to this? I mean, we're all human, we all have urges, and if any of us have gone out and looked at pr0n somewhere, how does that make us a bad person?
Comment removed based on user account deletion
Knowing the guys I work with, this technology could possibly allow me to build the best list of free porn sites ever.
This is a very good idea. It could potentially weed out other sorts of people as well. For example, I visit Slashdot about eighty times a day. I am embarassed about this addiction. If I could notify someone who cared about me, then I might be able to get support to stop it.
Addiction to websites is a serious matter. Online gambling is on the rise, pornography is problematic, and addiction to chat forums like Slashdot and ICQ NSync channels is a big problem for people. As an additional plus, this could be used to recognize and weed out subversive political and religious views, and stop people from looking at questionable material in those veins.
He calls up our University's tech services to report his internet connection sucked. It fixed itself within a few hours. The next day, he gets a call saying that his connection should work now, and that he had visited some "interesting" sites and that the network is for "academic use only", but that they had monitored his activity only because he had complained.
To make laws that man cannot, and will not obey, serves to bring all law into contempt.
--E.C. Stanton
You surfed goatse, like, 20 times this month!
Donate background CPU time to fight cancer.
"Chuck Swindoll"?
It sounds like a bad Simpsons joke...
Teacher hands out quiz...
Scribble on paper briefly...
Ignore for 20 minutes...
Teacher-"Trade quizes."
End result:
Jason-"Yeah, Chris got a 98"
Chris-"Jason got a 96"
Yeah, this should be effective *grin*
---"What did I say that sounded like 'Tell me about your day?'"---
I was just about to post this same thought, and I noticed you beat me to it. There is a huge difference between people who are trying to monitor and clean up their own online surfing habits (for whatever reasons) and what the headline and story description said.
This is just a way for people to keep them accountable in a way described in the Bible. Of course, knowing Slashdot, this will be made fun of to no end. People attempting to live their lives according to an external and somewhat objective standard is just so medieval.
Forget the whales - save the babies.
"You prev! I see from the NetAccountablity log you've been "browsing" FreshMeat again!"
"But honey, it's all about software! Honest!"
"Software, hardcore, whatever, it's all dirty!"
Opinions on the Twiddler2 hand-held keyboard?
There is always a way to hide your smut surfing. These solutions are aimed at people that want freedom from this addiction by getting help from friends that understand the issue or were once addicted themselves.
Just like with any 12 step program, you have to be willing to come to the meeting. For this app, you have to be willing to set up the accountability with a friend(s).
robi
Not a bad idea, really... but it's only as effective as any other form of self-censorship is. If there's any way to turn it off... unless it works on a double-key system, wherein you need two separate passwords.... or it just can't be bypassed completely. At any rate, glad to see that the concept of self-censorship is alive and well. And it wouldn't be such a bad thing to just have a regular way to track your internet usage for your own personal information anyway. Just the other day my wife lamented the lack of a game timer on The Sims Online..
Seems like when we're online, sometimes self-awareness goes out the window. Nothing new to most of us, but I think we'd all be shocked at how much time we actively spend online, where we go, that sort of thing. Bring it on.
Friends of mine actually use software like this; I would, as well, if I had a net connection at home.
The basic idea is "Install this when you are clear-headed and have moral convictions, and let it guide you in the moments of passion." Or something like that.
The programs that I have seen tie into or replace WINSOC, so there really isn't a convinient way to bork the system. Yeah, for those of us in the know, we could get around it, but the average guy can't, and even the average computer guy would have to put some serious effort into it.
The programs automatically generate and send a report on a regular basis, and this is transparent to the user. There is no "Click here to let your firemds know that you've been browsing younglove.com," it just quietly sends an email.
Actually, I think you will find a number of church officials requiering that those in their employ install such software. Couldn't hurt.
Thomas Galvin
They would be able to find those themselves in the wad of stuff I visit.
Too easy...
To make laws that man cannot, and will not obey, serves to bring all law into contempt.
--E.C. Stanton
http://www.thehuns.com/
;P
Just for the record. Don't shoot me!
some people view porn as an addiction like alcohol or smoking. They WANT to stop, but they don't have the self control. Think of it as an AA for porn. No one's asking you to participate, so let them do their thing.
And about the decision personal or religious not to look at porn... a lot of people's wives arent' too fond of their husbands looking at the stuff.
Inconceivable!
Correct. If you don't want to stop alcoholism, then you don't go to an AA meeting. If you don't want to stop doing cokee, you don't go to rehab.
If you don't want to stop pornography addictions, don't use these types of services.
It isn't like someone is forcing you do do this.
robi
Well, think about addictions. There are plenty of people who want to kick addictions to drugs, alcohol, food, hell most anything really. They want to quit, but their willpower is weak. So they turn themselves into rehab, sign up for Weight Watchers (where you weigh in as a group once a week), that sort of thing. I mean there are honestly people out there, and I'm one of them, who really try to get away from online pr0n but find the addiction too seductive sometimes to resist. It's the nature of addiction and temptation; it wouldn't be addictive and tempting if you didn't enjoy it. It's easy to enjoy things that you know are wrong.. the hard bit is stopping. This is legitimate help for some people.
This guy comes up with a system that imposes nothing on others. It is a tool for people who decide that they would like to use. But it gets slammed by so many here because so many slashdotters are not about freedom. They are about freedom that they agree with.
It is not invasion of privacy if you install it on purpose.
It is not religious judgement of others if people use tools that monitor their own activity.
This is an example of someone having an idea that ought to be welcome here. Rather than removing choices or limiting activity- people are given new choices to use if they so wish.
Those of you who think pornography cannot be destructive are unaware of the fact that it can ruin some peoples lives. If they want help with that- what is the harm?
It's hard to believe that's how Micronians are made. Why don't we see it right now by having you both kiss one another?
Why do you always bring two Mormans fishing?
Because if you bring one, he'll drink all your beer.
I'd have to disagree. I see this 'accountability' in the same viewpoint as a support group for any addictive or undesirable behaviour that one wants to stay clear of but has a problem doing so due to addictive behaviour patterns. It could be gambling, alcohol, smoking, or even someone who has an history of RPG addiction.
I don't see belonging to peer-accountibility group as the article mentions as calling for a defacto label of 'unhealthy'. In fact I'd call it the opposite. Someone who sees a behaviour they deem as self-negative and takes steps to correct/modify that behaviour without imposing their own standard on the rest of society is probably more healthy (IMHO) than many of the rest of us.
The great thing about objective standards is that there's so many to choose from. Do you want the Fred Phelps brand of biblical objectivity, the Jerry Farwell brand of biblical objectivity, or the liberal brand of bibilical objectivity that allows for gay ministers?
Just because Christians *claim* it's objective doesn't mean it is.
For the next hour feel free to surf all the porn sites you want, the NetAccountability server will be experiencing "technical" difficulties.
Nearly everyone who has posted so far as missed the point... pornography is a very real concern for many Christian men. Most of the world doesn't consider "lust" to bad at all... however, I think it can be incredibly destructive. Looking at pornography is a subtle form of adultery, whether you'd like to admit it or not. That being said, the Internet has an unlimited supply of porn that is available 24/7, and accessing it is completely anoymous. It is very easy to fall into this temptation, and it's very easy to become addicted to it. Please don't try to dispute this... just because *you* happen to see no problem with porn doesn't mean countless people have had real struggles with it. This program is designed for the person who wants to break an addictive cycle through accountibility, which is the basis for 12-step programs and other generally accepted methods for breaking addition. I'm really glad that someone has taken initiative to provide this kind of help.
This is a sad day for me, as a fan of slashdot. The comments here belittle one man's attempt to improve himself. His actions are to be commended, if anything.
I myself meet on a regular basis with other men who share a similar code-of-ethics - we hold each other accountable, voluntarily, as a check on our own behavior. In case no one's noticed, we human's don't do so well with the self control thing. The internet can consume much of our time, and I'm somewhat relieved to see others making an effort to cognatively assess and control the impact it has on their lives.
Feel free to lament the things which bind you (hey, I don't like MS either...), but some of you really need to figure out what - if anything - you stand for. I would expect this crowd to at least be capable of supporting an individual's right to overcome adversity they face.
By the way...accountability works. Yes, it's hard to admit to shameful things. And it's harder still to recognize (and admit to) repeating patterns of destructive behavior in one's life. There are a lot of worthwhile things that are hard.
Your monitor is staring at you.
After all, it was peer pressure that got me started on pr0n in the first place!
Porn slacker my ass. These kids nowadays got the internet. Back in my day we spanked it to scrambled porn while listening paranoid and scared for someone to come through the front door. We earned every second of our porn.
Finally, math books without any of that base 6 crap in them.
I found this out when I was teaching intermediate macroeconomics at Vanderbilt University. Being an expensive private university, the adminstration has made a real fetish out of teaching evaluations. Several times I noticed in the "anonymous" but handwritten evaluations that students who had poor attendance indicated that my lectures were disgorganized. (Yeah, I see the causality problem, but I really didn't think the lectures were disorganized, but they do build on each other.) So I decided to take attendance at every class, by passing around a sign up sheet. Attendance did not count towards the students' grades, but just the fact that I kept a record increased attendance. I asked a few students about this, and without prompting from me, they said that just knowing that it was written down somewhere that they hadn't been to class made them more likely to come.
& it did seem to improve my evaluations as well. I know that college students are supposed to be adults, and shouldn't need this kind of psychological trick, blah-blah-blah, but it worked, and in academia the moral high ground is occupied exclusively by tenured professors.
Interestingly enough, years later I read a great book on business management written a Buddhist monk who worked in the diamond industry (The Diamond Cutter by Geshe Michael Roach) that suggests simply keeping track of errors, with no actual or implied punishments, will reduce the number of errors dramatically. The book is very interesting --- I reccommend it highly.
foldplay your photos won't know what hit them.
Not that I know anyone into THAT stuff (except maybe a priest), but I might know some hardware tinkerers that may have ordered a mod chip at some point.
see, Mathew practically tells us it's ok to look at a man lustfully... no wait.
it's a joke, laugh. or don't.
The Kruger Dunning explains most post on
This could be a great opportunity for understanding and discussion. Istead, the slashdot community has latched on to the combined theme of religion and pornography and has used the opportunity to heap derision and ridicule on a group of people simply because they think differently.
It seems rather hypocritical to demand tolerance for your own personal views and then in turn refuse to tolerate views other than your own.
Now for an actual comment on the story: I would say this idea boils down to obtaining self-control by making all of your private actions public. I think such an approach can be viewed as only a means to an end, because as a final solution it is fundamentally flawed. This is because true self-control is the thing that is manifested when nobody else is looking. True self-control must ultimately come from within.
I agree! Just ask the Catholic Church, the multitudes of Protestant denominations, Branch Dividians, Mormons, Jehovah's Witnesses, Rastafarians, KKK, gay Christians, Charismatics, etc.
:)
What a standard
This guy clearly has his head in the sand. There is no way this idea could ever succeed, you know why? Because there is no hard and fast rulebook for defining pornography. So no matter how "religious" you are, there is someone who is going to have a more restrictive viewpoint than you. When you discuss movies with friends who are "religious" you can see exactly what I'm talking about.
Which is exactly why something like this will work, but a centralized "don't let them see this it's dirty" filtering system won't.
These programs email your suriong habits to a friend or pastor, someone who knows you and can agree on what you should and should not be looking for. For example, someone shopping for a valentine's gift for his wife would have a fairly good reason for visiting victoria's secret, but an unmarried man wouldn't.
These programs are about defining your own standards, and having someone help you hold to them.
My pastors actually say that something can be sinful for one person and not another. If a man has a problem with violence, he shouldn't be watching violent movies, but for a man without that problem, the Matrix is nothing but a fun movie. For a man with an alcohol addiction, a glass of wine is a bad idea, but for a man without that problem, it's simply something that goes well with the fish.
Thomas Galvin
"... Brandon Cotter is urging moralistic Web surfers to take matters into their own hands"
Isn't "taking matters into their own hands" the problem that they're trying to solve?
There was a study done a while back, and I'm... aha, found it. Avedon Carol, in "nudes, prudes and attitudes", references a study.
"When Goldstein found that *all* of the rapists in his study sample had been punished for looking at pornography, while a mere 7 per cent of his cohort sample had been, that set off alarm bells for anyone who really cared about the causes of sexual violence."
Religion is a much bigger threat to women than porn ever could be, on many, many levels.
--grendel drago
Laws do not persuade just because they threaten. --Seneca
A moral system that glorifies a sociopathic, genocidal tyrant that's all too willing to use orbital bombardment on two bronze age cities, saving only the family that was willing to grovel to him sufficiently.... and that is also willing to drown an entire PLANET simply because the inhabitants of said planet weren't grovelling to him sufficiently... is beneath my contempt.
Grow UP humans!
in nearly all areas, the Bible is quite clear. Like it or not, the Bible provides an excellent moral standard.
Dear Dr. Laura:
Thank you for doing so much to educate people regarding God's Law. I have learned a great deal from your show, and I try to share that knowledge with as many people as I can. When people try to defend the homosexual lifestyle, for example, I simply remind them that Leviticus 18:22 clearly states it to be an abomination. End of debate.
I do need some advice from you, however, regarding some of the specific laws and how to follow them:
a) When I burn a bull on the altar as a sacrifice, I know it creates a pleasing odor for the Lord (Lev.1:9).The problem is my neighbors. They claim the odor is not pleasing to them. Should I smite them?
b) I would like to sell my daughter into slavery, as sanctioned in Exodus 21:7.In this day and age, what do you think would be a fair price for her?
c) I know that I am allowed no contact with a woman while she is in her period of menstrual uncleanness (Lev.15:19-24).The problem is, how do I tell? I have tried asking, but most women take offense.
d) Lev.25:44 states that I may indeed possess slaves, both male and female, provided they are purchased from neighboring nations. A friend of mine claims that this applies to Mexicans, but not Canadians. Can you clarify? Why can't I own Canadians?
e) I have a neighbor who insists on working on the Sabbath. Exodus 35:2 clearly states he should be put to death. Am I morally obligated to kill him myself?
f) A friend of mine feels that even though eating shellfish is an abomination (Lev.11:10), it is a lesser abomination than homosexuality. I don't agree. Can you settle this?
g) Lev.21:20 states that I may not approach the altar of God if I have a defect in my sight. I have to admit that I wear reading glasses. Does my vision have to be 20/20, or is there some wiggle room here?
h) Most of my male friends get their hair trimmed, including the hair around their temples, even though this is expressly forbidden by Lev. 19:27. How should they die?
i) I know from Lev.11:6-8 that touching the skin of a dead pig makes me unclean, but may I still play football if I wear gloves?
j) My uncle has a farm. He violates Lev.19:19 by planting two different crops in the same field, as does his wife by wearing garments made of two different kinds of thread cotton/polyester blend. He also tends to curse and blaspheme a lot. Is it really necessary that we go to all the trouble of getting the whole town together to stone them (Lev.24:10-16)? Couldn't we just burn them to death at a private family affair like we do with people who sleep with their in-laws? (Lev.20:14)
I know you have studied these things extensively, so I am confident you can help. Thank you again for reminding us that God's word is eternal and unchanging.
To be fair, the original poster quoted a verse from Matthew, which is in the "new testament". Your copy of "Dear Dr. Laura" refers only to "old testament" verses. Even I know that the rules in the OT don't apply in the NT age, in fact, that's part of why "Dear Dr. Laura" was written.
Now, to present my side of this argument: Jesus, in the Sermon on the Mount, was using a number of rhetorical devices which when taken in the context of the whole speech clearly indicate, not a rigid hierarchy of right and wrong, but that what is important for humans is that they simply trust in God. Sadly, some of those statements, when deprived of both context and the nuance of delivery, appear to be some new set of even stricter rules-- the very thing Jesus was arguing against!!
I do not have a signature
I remembering having to cat together messages then run them thru uudecoding and finally FTP them to a Mac before I could get to see it proper. I thought Free Agent was a miracle.
There are actually people who want to STOP looking at pr0n, but the temptation and availability and ease of covering your tracks is too much for them to handle. So this is an ideal solution for those people.
It happens quite often really. I would pay for it. Now granted, most people that I know that would use such a service volentarily are christians who struggle with pr0n (such as myself).
Never argue with an idiot. They will just bring you down to their level and beat you with experience.
You had it good. I had to hold borrowed 8mm film strips up to the light because no one I knew had a projector. Take a second and imagine how wide 8mm is, and the skill of holding it steady while doing other deeds.
Look at it this way.
As a parent, I allow my children to use the computer. I do, however, place it in the house where there is a lot of traffic and I can keep an eye on what they are doing without interrupting them.
This is a Good Thing(TM). Accountability, in general, is a good thing.
You may not agree with the application of this technology, but why disparage it here? If you feel pornography is a good thing then you can enjoy it yourself.
I, however, feel that pornography has many bad consequences. I know this from personal experience. Who are you to disparage my personal experience, my morals, convictions, values and beliefs? Pornography, just like gambling, drinking, drugs, computer hardware, computer games, MMORPGs, etc can be addictive. These addictions can change you and your life significantly. If you like those changes, or it doesn't change you, or you don't notice the change, then good for you. But don't hate the technology or the people who use it for themselves.
-Adam
An idea is a precious and fragile thing. Don't hate ideas. Hate people.
my *shudder* alama mater. A private Christian university. We had required chapel days, where the entire student body was required to meet for a religious seminar. Don't ask. Anyway, one day a member of the student body gets up and gives a rambling testimonial about how his roommate caught him jerking it to porn. the guy felt so 'dirty' and 'sinful' that he felt it necessary to confess it in front of a couple thousand of his peers. It was the most inane, embarassing display of public humiliation I've ever seen. What supporters of this opt-in idea are missing is the rest of the picture. This boy was made to feel dirty. Sinful. For something completely normal. You think he just invented the guilt on his own? No, it was instilled in him by a sexually repressed religion. I realize that this program would work nicely in libraries or schools. Those are places to learn, not self love. Ethics and morality mean more than just following along... modern Christianity needs to stop pretending it is a good subsitiute for therapy and common sense. Men and women will only be made to continue to feel worthless for what SHOULD BE safe, sane, and healthy. Sex addicts? Sure they exist, addicts need to be taught moderation... soemthing they didn't 'get' the first time around.
This is just as bad as peer pressure to get into drugs.
It prioritizes mass harrassment over reason.It turns the conflict (much of it natural at a certain age) internally on a person with the added weight of others who are contemptible in choosing to subject others under such pressure because:
1. It is dishones; the "right to look your accuser in the face" is taken away. Anyone looking their accusers in the face will be shamed. Any honest (willing to accept convincing evidence) dialogue is silenced and utterly impossible.
2. It is authority by majority, no accountability of the accusers is taken.
3. It is pressure based on raging fears and mass hysteria. 'Nuff said.
Welcome to Salem, MA 1692.
The message on the other side of this sig is false.
Porn is a problem...for people who are opposed to it. If someone is opposed to it then what use is something like this to them when they're not going to be looking at it anyway?
It seems to me that you'll just have a big group of people who will all be watching each other not look at porn. The thing is, they wouldn't be looking at porn in the first place. Oh well, if this will occupy their time and keep them out of everyone else's business then perhaps in the end it will be a positive thing. The more that sexually repressed people and groups are distracted and preoccupied, the happier the rest of the world will be.
I think it is truly sad that anyone even CARES about porn. It is irrelevant to anyone who isn't a pervert, whether you're talking about the perverts who are obsessed with looking at it, or the ones who are obsessed with repressing their own sexual desires (if only they would do it right and stop breeding...). For the rest of us porn is an occasionally interesting distraction and nothing more. I've seen my share of porn and the vast majority of it is completely pointless. I get more out of the Sports Illustrated Swimsuit Issue and a Victoria's Secret catalog than I've ever gotten out of porn. Porn is for adolescent males and males who never grew past adolesence. Even so, that doesn't make it a social problem or something in need of remedy. Unless of course you mean that it needs to be better than it is.
This scheme does nothing but prove that technology gives people new ways to express their stupidity.
Lee
Muslim community leaders warn of backlash from tomorrow morning's terrorist attack.