Slashdot Mirror
Peer Pressure Porn Filter
Highwayman writes "Wired magazine presents one man's approach to stopping online pr0n 'Instead of relying on filters, the approach, which NetAccountability has been pitching primarily to religious groups, calls for Web users to share records of their online activity. Users pick a friend, spouse or other confidant who receives a regular report showing which sites they visit, highlighting potentially objectionable material.'"
Think of it as a new way of recommending sites to your friends :)
To make laws that man cannot, and will not obey, serves to bring all law into contempt.
--E.C. Stanton
why would someone willingly subject themselves to this? I mean, we're all human, we all have urges, and if any of us have gone out and looked at pr0n somewhere, how does that make us a bad person?
Comment removed based on user account deletion
Knowing the guys I work with, this technology could possibly allow me to build the best list of free porn sites ever.
This is a very good idea. It could potentially weed out other sorts of people as well. For example, I visit Slashdot about eighty times a day. I am embarassed about this addiction. If I could notify someone who cared about me, then I might be able to get support to stop it.
Addiction to websites is a serious matter. Online gambling is on the rise, pornography is problematic, and addiction to chat forums like Slashdot and ICQ NSync channels is a big problem for people. As an additional plus, this could be used to recognize and weed out subversive political and religious views, and stop people from looking at questionable material in those veins.
He calls up our University's tech services to report his internet connection sucked. It fixed itself within a few hours. The next day, he gets a call saying that his connection should work now, and that he had visited some "interesting" sites and that the network is for "academic use only", but that they had monitored his activity only because he had complained.
To make laws that man cannot, and will not obey, serves to bring all law into contempt.
--E.C. Stanton
You surfed goatse, like, 20 times this month!
Donate background CPU time to fight cancer.
"Chuck Swindoll"?
It sounds like a bad Simpsons joke...
Teacher hands out quiz...
Scribble on paper briefly...
Ignore for 20 minutes...
Teacher-"Trade quizes."
End result:
Jason-"Yeah, Chris got a 98"
Chris-"Jason got a 96"
Yeah, this should be effective *grin*
---"What did I say that sounded like 'Tell me about your day?'"---
I was just about to post this same thought, and I noticed you beat me to it. There is a huge difference between people who are trying to monitor and clean up their own online surfing habits (for whatever reasons) and what the headline and story description said.
This is just a way for people to keep them accountable in a way described in the Bible. Of course, knowing Slashdot, this will be made fun of to no end. People attempting to live their lives according to an external and somewhat objective standard is just so medieval.
Forget the whales - save the babies.
"You prev! I see from the NetAccountablity log you've been "browsing" FreshMeat again!"
"But honey, it's all about software! Honest!"
"Software, hardcore, whatever, it's all dirty!"
Opinions on the Twiddler2 hand-held keyboard?
...for many reasons.
First, the whole "my religion doesn't allow me to look at porn" argument is just nuts. If you truly believe this, you won't need your big brother (or whomever) to watch you.
Second, what about self control? Okay, you don't want to look at porn. So the only way you can stop is to have your PC report which sites you visit to Grandma?
Finally, if you want to look at porn, look at porn. If your religion forbids it, well, that sucks... but otherwise, who the hell cares if you look at porn? I enjoy it, am not ashamed of it, and I certainly don't need anyone else (or any religion) scrutinizing what sites I visit.
So next we'll be CCing our Visa bill to someone, to curb excessive spending; faxing the grocery list/receipt to help with over-eating; and so on. Do these people actually need a babysitter? If so, what are they doing living on their own, let alone surfing the 'Net without supervision?
NGWave - Fast Sound Editor for Windows
Man, if I'm watching some porn and my girlfriend walks into the room, she just shakes her head and laughs. And vice versa. People are prudes.
There is always a way to hide your smut surfing. These solutions are aimed at people that want freedom from this addiction by getting help from friends that understand the issue or were once addicted themselves.
Just like with any 12 step program, you have to be willing to come to the meeting. For this app, you have to be willing to set up the accountability with a friend(s).
robi
Pornix, a bootable linux cd with a stripped copy of xfree86, kde, konqueror and mplayer. All history tracking will be sent to /dev/null, your files will be stored in a special encrypted partition that needs a password to boot the cd, and a password to access the partition. A panic key which quickly loads http://www.yahoo.com is also included.
For all normal uses, you can surf without the cdrom. Don't forget to keep it safe.
Not a bad idea, really... but it's only as effective as any other form of self-censorship is. If there's any way to turn it off... unless it works on a double-key system, wherein you need two separate passwords.... or it just can't be bypassed completely. At any rate, glad to see that the concept of self-censorship is alive and well. And it wouldn't be such a bad thing to just have a regular way to track your internet usage for your own personal information anyway. Just the other day my wife lamented the lack of a game timer on The Sims Online..
Seems like when we're online, sometimes self-awareness goes out the window. Nothing new to most of us, but I think we'd all be shocked at how much time we actively spend online, where we go, that sort of thing. Bring it on.
Friends of mine actually use software like this; I would, as well, if I had a net connection at home.
The basic idea is "Install this when you are clear-headed and have moral convictions, and let it guide you in the moments of passion." Or something like that.
The programs that I have seen tie into or replace WINSOC, so there really isn't a convinient way to bork the system. Yeah, for those of us in the know, we could get around it, but the average guy can't, and even the average computer guy would have to put some serious effort into it.
The programs automatically generate and send a report on a regular basis, and this is transparent to the user. There is no "Click here to let your firemds know that you've been browsing younglove.com," it just quietly sends an email.
Actually, I think you will find a number of church officials requiering that those in their employ install such software. Couldn't hurt.
Thomas Galvin
They would be able to find those themselves in the wad of stuff I visit.
Too easy...
To make laws that man cannot, and will not obey, serves to bring all law into contempt.
--E.C. Stanton
Except this is voluntary, and actually a pay service. It's not for people that are okay with porn. It's for people that are addicted and want to stop. Of course, if used by a boss or a parent, then it's a little different. However, that's still just helping to enforce rules created by someone other than this company.
"I wan't to stop looking at porn, but can't control myself, so I'll make it so that if I do look at porn someone will know that I did and I'll be embarassed."
And you just know that people will share tricks for getting around the monitoring software, which adds a whole new layer of dishonesty and self-contempt to the whole exercise.
Wouldn't be a whole lot easier to either 1) just stop looking at porn, or 2) admit that you like porn and get on with things?
Cheers
-b
If I wanted a sig I would have filled in that stupid box.
I've already explained to my wife that Freshmeat isn't a pr0n site. Now I would have to explain that to someone else too? Great...
(As a side note: my wife's actual comment was "Freshmeat? A porn site? Cool! Let's see!")
why don't we make people that surf questionable material wear a distinctive mark? Like a yellow star, a pink triangle or something... Oh, wait. It's been done before.
there's no place like ~
http://www.thehuns.com/
;P
Just for the record. Don't shoot me!
Correct. If you don't want to stop alcoholism, then you don't go to an AA meeting. If you don't want to stop doing cokee, you don't go to rehab.
If you don't want to stop pornography addictions, don't use these types of services.
It isn't like someone is forcing you do do this.
robi
What is equally distrubing is that these are probably the same people that think the rest of us have the same problem and must be saved from ourselves. They lobby to get laws passed because "someone must watch over us" to protect us from ourselves.
Prevent email address forgery. Publish SPF records for y
This guy comes up with a system that imposes nothing on others. It is a tool for people who decide that they would like to use. But it gets slammed by so many here because so many slashdotters are not about freedom. They are about freedom that they agree with.
It is not invasion of privacy if you install it on purpose.
It is not religious judgement of others if people use tools that monitor their own activity.
This is an example of someone having an idea that ought to be welcome here. Rather than removing choices or limiting activity- people are given new choices to use if they so wish.
Those of you who think pornography cannot be destructive are unaware of the fact that it can ruin some peoples lives. If they want help with that- what is the harm?
It's hard to believe that's how Micronians are made. Why don't we see it right now by having you both kiss one another?
Hell, if people saw their own Slashdot usage, they'd be appalled.
Why do you always bring two Mormans fishing?
Because if you bring one, he'll drink all your beer.
addiction... I hate how carelessly that word gets thrown around these days.
Jaysyn
There is a war going on for your mind.
TimBrown233: Father, forgive me, for I have sinned.
TheRevster31: Do not be disheartened, child, for Satan, also known as the Hun in your case, tempts us at all hours.
"I only speak the truth"
Karma: null(Mostly affected by an unassigned variable)
The great thing about objective standards is that there's so many to choose from. Do you want the Fred Phelps brand of biblical objectivity, the Jerry Farwell brand of biblical objectivity, or the liberal brand of bibilical objectivity that allows for gay ministers?
Just because Christians *claim* it's objective doesn't mean it is.
For the next hour feel free to surf all the porn sites you want, the NetAccountability server will be experiencing "technical" difficulties.
Nearly everyone who has posted so far as missed the point... pornography is a very real concern for many Christian men. Most of the world doesn't consider "lust" to bad at all... however, I think it can be incredibly destructive. Looking at pornography is a subtle form of adultery, whether you'd like to admit it or not. That being said, the Internet has an unlimited supply of porn that is available 24/7, and accessing it is completely anoymous. It is very easy to fall into this temptation, and it's very easy to become addicted to it. Please don't try to dispute this... just because *you* happen to see no problem with porn doesn't mean countless people have had real struggles with it. This program is designed for the person who wants to break an addictive cycle through accountibility, which is the basis for 12-step programs and other generally accepted methods for breaking addition. I'm really glad that someone has taken initiative to provide this kind of help.
Key point from the article: " Users pick a friend, spouse or other confidant".
This will work - depending on the sincerity of the person using it. If they choose people close to them - who share similar values - they it will work to the extent of their value system. If they choose Joe Blow from church of the whatever who believe that women are from the devil, then yes it will fail. But if they choose someone from their peer group that they trust and know shares similar values as they do, the it will work to the level they choose it to.
This is a sad day for me, as a fan of slashdot. The comments here belittle one man's attempt to improve himself. His actions are to be commended, if anything.
I myself meet on a regular basis with other men who share a similar code-of-ethics - we hold each other accountable, voluntarily, as a check on our own behavior. In case no one's noticed, we human's don't do so well with the self control thing. The internet can consume much of our time, and I'm somewhat relieved to see others making an effort to cognatively assess and control the impact it has on their lives.
Feel free to lament the things which bind you (hey, I don't like MS either...), but some of you really need to figure out what - if anything - you stand for. I would expect this crowd to at least be capable of supporting an individual's right to overcome adversity they face.
By the way...accountability works. Yes, it's hard to admit to shameful things. And it's harder still to recognize (and admit to) repeating patterns of destructive behavior in one's life. There are a lot of worthwhile things that are hard.
Your monitor is staring at you.
After all, it was peer pressure that got me started on pr0n in the first place!
When you go fishing, why do you have to take 2 mormons?
Because if you only take one, he'll drink all your beer.
I demand a million helicopters and a DOLLAR!
Robert K. Bowfinger: We're finished! It's over between us!
Daisy: But why?
Robert K. Bowfinger: You slept with Jiff.
Daisy: So?
Robert K. Bowfinger: You know, I never thought about it that way.
Daisy: So I'll see you tonight?
Robert K. Bowfinger: What time?
Heaven help you if while using this service you are looking to catch a bus to visit some relatives. You mistakenly type www.greyhond.com (POPUP WARNING)....instead of www.greyhound.com.
My, what your friend or loved one will think of you...
Mordor...a magical, mythical land where women are more rare than dragons--but where every man would rather find a dragon
Porn slacker my ass. These kids nowadays got the internet. Back in my day we spanked it to scrambled porn while listening paranoid and scared for someone to come through the front door. We earned every second of our porn.
Finally, math books without any of that base 6 crap in them.
Just join a club to form a
- whitelist - stuff that's definitely OK to see
- blacklist - stuff that's definitely not OK to see
- graylist - stuff that's outside the known universe
to define your own internet experience. Sounds like a great idea to me.Think of the possibilities, too. The anti-matter folks and the matter folks can help each other with their respective lists.
Some of the pr0n viewing crowd can join the Moral Majority Virtual web but just set (white=black and black=white) and everyone wins.
"Provided by the management for your protection."
How much time can they expect a person to spend going over all their friends' usage logs? Seems like it would eventually become tedious and people would lose interest.
"But if they choose someone from their peer group that they trust and know shares similar values as they do"
I should have elaborated on this point as being one of the reasons why it won't work. In fact,I think the Bible has some verse about this, "blind leading the blind". Basically I get to pick my judge! Where would the conflict come in? If I was secretly addicted to porn, all I would need to do is pick some young unmarried man to be my peer reviewer. Odds are if he's staying celibate he's got to be dipping in the porn fountain, especially if he's good with computers.
Meanwhile Mrs. Chastity Witheredpuss will have one of the ladies from her sewing circle monitor her Internet habits...but since it's pretty much all just aol.com there's nothing scandalous to report.
Now, if your browsing habits were broadcast to a number of people, or people that you didn't choose, that would be something intimidating enough to perhaps prevent you from viewing porn. But as I said, nobody in their right mind would open this can of worms.
The only people I could see this helping are people who confess they are addicted to porn and are asking for peer review because they want help in avoiding temptation. But all it would probably do in this case is return them back to movies, magazines, and other non-trackable porn.
All in all, still a worthless idea.
- JoeShmoe
.
-- I wonder which will go down in history as the bigger failure: the War on Drugs or the War on Filesharing
I found this out when I was teaching intermediate macroeconomics at Vanderbilt University. Being an expensive private university, the adminstration has made a real fetish out of teaching evaluations. Several times I noticed in the "anonymous" but handwritten evaluations that students who had poor attendance indicated that my lectures were disgorganized. (Yeah, I see the causality problem, but I really didn't think the lectures were disorganized, but they do build on each other.) So I decided to take attendance at every class, by passing around a sign up sheet. Attendance did not count towards the students' grades, but just the fact that I kept a record increased attendance. I asked a few students about this, and without prompting from me, they said that just knowing that it was written down somewhere that they hadn't been to class made them more likely to come.
& it did seem to improve my evaluations as well. I know that college students are supposed to be adults, and shouldn't need this kind of psychological trick, blah-blah-blah, but it worked, and in academia the moral high ground is occupied exclusively by tenured professors.
Interestingly enough, years later I read a great book on business management written a Buddhist monk who worked in the diamond industry (The Diamond Cutter by Geshe Michael Roach) that suggests simply keeping track of errors, with no actual or implied punishments, will reduce the number of errors dramatically. The book is very interesting --- I reccommend it highly.
foldplay your photos won't know what hit them.
Not that I know anyone into THAT stuff (except maybe a priest), but I might know some hardware tinkerers that may have ordered a mod chip at some point.
see, Mathew practically tells us it's ok to look at a man lustfully... no wait.
it's a joke, laugh. or don't.
The Kruger Dunning explains most post on
David Brin is a big proponent of a "transparent society" in which everyone is watched by someone else. Although it has its pros and cons, this sort of software is a great tool for such a society. Amusingly, it's being used by conservatives while at the same time creating a society proposed by a liberal idealist.
As many posters have suggested, adult entertainment is not a problem in itself. But it is when a teenager steals a credit card and runs up many tens of thousands of dollays in debt! This kind of software is good because you get to pick someone that you trust (maybe an aunt, an uncle or a friend) and allow them to offer a second perspective on things that you do. Too many people are isolated from others and never learn to question their own actions.
If everyone's actions were known to someone else, our country would operate a lot more smoothly. Imagine making a small change to this software: Your actions are summarized for someone else to view, but anonymously. They can opt to suggest to you that you might benefit from help if they think that what you are doing is unusual. You can ignore it, but a reality check might help a lot of people, even if it's just a link to finding free porn instead of paying a ton of cash for it.
-Elentar
The wheel it turns, around and around, with an ancient rumbling sound.
This could be a great opportunity for understanding and discussion. Istead, the slashdot community has latched on to the combined theme of religion and pornography and has used the opportunity to heap derision and ridicule on a group of people simply because they think differently.
It seems rather hypocritical to demand tolerance for your own personal views and then in turn refuse to tolerate views other than your own.
Now for an actual comment on the story: I would say this idea boils down to obtaining self-control by making all of your private actions public. I think such an approach can be viewed as only a means to an end, because as a final solution it is fundamentally flawed. This is because true self-control is the thing that is manifested when nobody else is looking. True self-control must ultimately come from within.
I agree! Just ask the Catholic Church, the multitudes of Protestant denominations, Branch Dividians, Mormons, Jehovah's Witnesses, Rastafarians, KKK, gay Christians, Charismatics, etc.
:)
What a standard
This guy clearly has his head in the sand. There is no way this idea could ever succeed, you know why? Because there is no hard and fast rulebook for defining pornography. So no matter how "religious" you are, there is someone who is going to have a more restrictive viewpoint than you. When you discuss movies with friends who are "religious" you can see exactly what I'm talking about.
Which is exactly why something like this will work, but a centralized "don't let them see this it's dirty" filtering system won't.
These programs email your suriong habits to a friend or pastor, someone who knows you and can agree on what you should and should not be looking for. For example, someone shopping for a valentine's gift for his wife would have a fairly good reason for visiting victoria's secret, but an unmarried man wouldn't.
These programs are about defining your own standards, and having someone help you hold to them.
My pastors actually say that something can be sinful for one person and not another. If a man has a problem with violence, he shouldn't be watching violent movies, but for a man without that problem, the Matrix is nothing but a fun movie. For a man with an alcohol addiction, a glass of wine is a bad idea, but for a man without that problem, it's simply something that goes well with the fish.
Thomas Galvin
"... Brandon Cotter is urging moralistic Web surfers to take matters into their own hands"
Isn't "taking matters into their own hands" the problem that they're trying to solve?
We belittle the mans attempt not to improve himself, but his attempt to suggest that the rest of the world need this to improve. That's just typical Christian hybris. If he cannot control himself not to look at porn then he might have a real problem, but the problem isn't really with porn, or even the world wide web, the problem is much more _fundamental_ than that, if you get my drift.
Stuff like what you put in the subject is exactly what we oppose, the belief that there is some sort of absolute morality and that those who look at porn and can handle it (and enjoy it!) are actually _bad_, when in fact they are not.
There was a study done a while back, and I'm... aha, found it. Avedon Carol, in "nudes, prudes and attitudes", references a study.
"When Goldstein found that *all* of the rapists in his study sample had been punished for looking at pornography, while a mere 7 per cent of his cohort sample had been, that set off alarm bells for anyone who really cared about the causes of sexual violence."
Religion is a much bigger threat to women than porn ever could be, on many, many levels.
--grendel drago
Laws do not persuade just because they threaten. --Seneca
A moral system that glorifies a sociopathic, genocidal tyrant that's all too willing to use orbital bombardment on two bronze age cities, saving only the family that was willing to grovel to him sufficiently.... and that is also willing to drown an entire PLANET simply because the inhabitants of said planet weren't grovelling to him sufficiently... is beneath my contempt.
Grow UP humans!
in nearly all areas, the Bible is quite clear. Like it or not, the Bible provides an excellent moral standard.
Dear Dr. Laura:
Thank you for doing so much to educate people regarding God's Law. I have learned a great deal from your show, and I try to share that knowledge with as many people as I can. When people try to defend the homosexual lifestyle, for example, I simply remind them that Leviticus 18:22 clearly states it to be an abomination. End of debate.
I do need some advice from you, however, regarding some of the specific laws and how to follow them:
a) When I burn a bull on the altar as a sacrifice, I know it creates a pleasing odor for the Lord (Lev.1:9).The problem is my neighbors. They claim the odor is not pleasing to them. Should I smite them?
b) I would like to sell my daughter into slavery, as sanctioned in Exodus 21:7.In this day and age, what do you think would be a fair price for her?
c) I know that I am allowed no contact with a woman while she is in her period of menstrual uncleanness (Lev.15:19-24).The problem is, how do I tell? I have tried asking, but most women take offense.
d) Lev.25:44 states that I may indeed possess slaves, both male and female, provided they are purchased from neighboring nations. A friend of mine claims that this applies to Mexicans, but not Canadians. Can you clarify? Why can't I own Canadians?
e) I have a neighbor who insists on working on the Sabbath. Exodus 35:2 clearly states he should be put to death. Am I morally obligated to kill him myself?
f) A friend of mine feels that even though eating shellfish is an abomination (Lev.11:10), it is a lesser abomination than homosexuality. I don't agree. Can you settle this?
g) Lev.21:20 states that I may not approach the altar of God if I have a defect in my sight. I have to admit that I wear reading glasses. Does my vision have to be 20/20, or is there some wiggle room here?
h) Most of my male friends get their hair trimmed, including the hair around their temples, even though this is expressly forbidden by Lev. 19:27. How should they die?
i) I know from Lev.11:6-8 that touching the skin of a dead pig makes me unclean, but may I still play football if I wear gloves?
j) My uncle has a farm. He violates Lev.19:19 by planting two different crops in the same field, as does his wife by wearing garments made of two different kinds of thread cotton/polyester blend. He also tends to curse and blaspheme a lot. Is it really necessary that we go to all the trouble of getting the whole town together to stone them (Lev.24:10-16)? Couldn't we just burn them to death at a private family affair like we do with people who sleep with their in-laws? (Lev.20:14)
I know you have studied these things extensively, so I am confident you can help. Thank you again for reminding us that God's word is eternal and unchanging.
Interesting. I would assume you would install it when your mind was clouded by guilt and shame. This reminds me of two quotes from St. Augustine-
"Give me chastity and continence, but not yet." [everyone's favorite]
and
"Love and do what you will"
But I am a Jew so, what do I know?
It is cowardly, and a betrayal of whatever it means to be a Jew, to act as a white man
-James Baldwin
To be fair, the original poster quoted a verse from Matthew, which is in the "new testament". Your copy of "Dear Dr. Laura" refers only to "old testament" verses. Even I know that the rules in the OT don't apply in the NT age, in fact, that's part of why "Dear Dr. Laura" was written.
Now, to present my side of this argument: Jesus, in the Sermon on the Mount, was using a number of rhetorical devices which when taken in the context of the whole speech clearly indicate, not a rigid hierarchy of right and wrong, but that what is important for humans is that they simply trust in God. Sadly, some of those statements, when deprived of both context and the nuance of delivery, appear to be some new set of even stricter rules-- the very thing Jesus was arguing against!!
I do not have a signature
Dudes - I think this rocks. I mean think of all the problems in the Catholic Church - Enron - etc. Accountability is just a basic ingredient for integrity. Chuck Swindoll is one of the most sincere and "real" ministers out there. He's not preachy - was a marine years ago - seems to really care about helping people. Just great to see a solution that uses friendships and a non-censorship approach. Life is short - integrity is something we all strive for.
I remembering having to cat together messages then run them thru uudecoding and finally FTP them to a Mac before I could get to see it proper. I thought Free Agent was a miracle.
There are actually people who want to STOP looking at pr0n, but the temptation and availability and ease of covering your tracks is too much for them to handle. So this is an ideal solution for those people.
It happens quite often really. I would pay for it. Now granted, most people that I know that would use such a service volentarily are christians who struggle with pr0n (such as myself).
Never argue with an idiot. They will just bring you down to their level and beat you with experience.
Dr. Laura is Jewish. In her mind, the NT doesn't apply. Those OT verses do. So Dear Dr. Laura is valid.
Someone I know in the future: "Hey Steve why don't you install this software so we can all monitor each other and make sure we don't sin?!"
Me: "Why don't you (^%^@($#)*#&*&#(&# my *#*#^&#$^$*&*$*$ you #*^@%#$*$(*#(&#."
From what I can gather, the objecting post to this story are one of the following:
/. community seem to think it's a good idea also gives credence to it working for at least some people.
1. Cynical that it will work
2. Believe that the guilt caused by pr0n is wrong
3. Think this could be very bad if forced on someone via peer pressure or possibly some big-brother enforced government regulation.
To the people that object based on reasoning #1, I say, that's fine, but something that's got 10,000 people signing up for 4 bucks a month must do SOMETHING for them. The very fact that so many people in the
To the people that object to the guilt brought on by pr0n, that's a matter of opinion. Vegetarians obviously are going feel guilty for eating meat. Conservative Christians are going to feel the same way about pr0n. Whatever your view is, you must allow each person the freedom to be conditioned to have that response if it is their choice.
Personally, I think the third category of objections is most legitimate. Is it possible that people will use this as a way to force something on others? Probably. But just because it can be used in an evil manner does not mean that it is evil in of itself. One computer may be used to make a virus, another to solve a traffic problem. The problem isn't the computer, it's the person who uses it. I think it's the same case here.
You had it good. I had to hold borrowed 8mm film strips up to the light because no one I knew had a projector. Take a second and imagine how wide 8mm is, and the skill of holding it steady while doing other deeds.
The overall point is that the idea that the "Bible is quite clear" is merely wishful thinking. The Bible is massively open to interpreration. EVEN if you believe that it is literally true AND written by the people it claims it was written by (both of which are questionable).
News flash...not all marriages are between Christians, and even Christians disagree on what god says. He's a notoriously unreliable source, and clearly says contradicting things to different people.
Maybe I'm missing something, but I think this is a great idea, and I'm surprised it hasn't been done before. I constantly hear people complain about filters, especially about how they do not filter as reasonably as a human would. Well, this solves that problem. We're always telling parents that they need to look after their children and what they are watching, and this is a perfect tool to do that. Its other use, using it to make yourself accountable as opposed to children, seems a little weird, but I can see where it could be useful. And besides, it's opt-in, so what's the big problem? Sounds like a great product. Not that I'll be signing up for it anytime soon. . . .
Hmmmmmmm, I'm not generally a stickler about things I don't care much about, but you started it and were wrong.
"You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means" - The Princess Bride
"Share your knowledge. It's a way to achieve immortality." -- Dalai Lama
What about that stuff in the Koran or the book of Morman? Isn't that God's laws too?
http://www.windmeadow.com/
The problem isn't P2P sw, it is the users making illegal use of it.
The problem isn't gun owners, it is the hoods that murder the 7-11 worker to get the cash using guns.
The problem isn't Democracy, it is the politicians that abuse the system, take bribes (soft money), pass biased legislation.
The problem isn't booze, it is getting drunk and driving.
The problem isn't sex, it is addiction to sex/porn with 15 year old drug addicted sex slaves in china.
This community points out so many of these contradictions it makes you wonder if anybody else gets it.
robi
Look at it this way.
As a parent, I allow my children to use the computer. I do, however, place it in the house where there is a lot of traffic and I can keep an eye on what they are doing without interrupting them.
This is a Good Thing(TM). Accountability, in general, is a good thing.
You may not agree with the application of this technology, but why disparage it here? If you feel pornography is a good thing then you can enjoy it yourself.
I, however, feel that pornography has many bad consequences. I know this from personal experience. Who are you to disparage my personal experience, my morals, convictions, values and beliefs? Pornography, just like gambling, drinking, drugs, computer hardware, computer games, MMORPGs, etc can be addictive. These addictions can change you and your life significantly. If you like those changes, or it doesn't change you, or you don't notice the change, then good for you. But don't hate the technology or the people who use it for themselves.
-Adam
An idea is a precious and fragile thing. Don't hate ideas. Hate people.
They always supported legalism with (often Biblical) appeals to morality. Just like the Pharisees once did, but without all the diligent study. Why lead a church body when you can simply control it?
Iron does sharpen iron, until they start making paper contracts governing how it should be conducted (I kid you not). The software (while good in-and-of itself) could be a natural extension of their legalism. It would start with the staff, then trickle down through the hierarchy with lots of judgmentalism towards anyone who didn't elevate themselves to that standard of accountability.
I'll let you have the last word on this thread.
I put the 'fun' in fundamentalism
my *shudder* alama mater. A private Christian university. We had required chapel days, where the entire student body was required to meet for a religious seminar. Don't ask. Anyway, one day a member of the student body gets up and gives a rambling testimonial about how his roommate caught him jerking it to porn. the guy felt so 'dirty' and 'sinful' that he felt it necessary to confess it in front of a couple thousand of his peers. It was the most inane, embarassing display of public humiliation I've ever seen. What supporters of this opt-in idea are missing is the rest of the picture. This boy was made to feel dirty. Sinful. For something completely normal. You think he just invented the guilt on his own? No, it was instilled in him by a sexually repressed religion. I realize that this program would work nicely in libraries or schools. Those are places to learn, not self love. Ethics and morality mean more than just following along... modern Christianity needs to stop pretending it is a good subsitiute for therapy and common sense. Men and women will only be made to continue to feel worthless for what SHOULD BE safe, sane, and healthy. Sex addicts? Sure they exist, addicts need to be taught moderation... soemthing they didn't 'get' the first time around.
> To me the problem is it seems kinda creepy that you'd need the threat of shame from your friends or family to not do something you consider morally abhorent.
It's no surprise that so many sects with tight moral constraints and/or inflexible doctrine are based on strong personal associations between their adherents, including (but not limited to) regular assemblies of the group's members.
What I wonder is whether that kind of social engineering was designed in by those groups' founders, or whether it is simply the outcome of "survival of the fittest" - i.e., whether the groups that didn't practice social engineering were more likely to disintegrate over the centuries.
Sheesh, evil *and* a jerk. -- Jade
This sounds like an honest question, so I will answer it honestly.
;) brain activity goes nuts. Also note that the more porn you see, the "harder" porn you need to get that same response... Sound familiar? So for a non-trivial number of people, Porn is a effectively a drug that they abuse. Just like alcohol, or pot, or other moderatly powerful drugs (drugs that are psychologically addictive and not necessarily chemically addictive).
:) ).
Accountability rocks. The trick is to find commited like minded friends that genuinely care about you, and you invest in each others lives.
I can tell them "I want to spend more time with my children, I know that I am missing out on a huge part of life and will regret it when they grow up, but I am really struggling with making the time to spend time with them, and need your help doing it"
These people, if they really are good accountability partners, will ask you every week how you are doing. They will probe and try to understand the real reasons you might be struggling with it, help you track your progress, give you outside perspectives, give you suggestions based on their own experience that would help, lots of real help to making real progress on important issues. They will refer you to professional help if it looks like that is necessary, or just help remind you of what you know is important when you don't feel like you have the energy to do it.
So thats the accountability component of it. Ask any recovering alchoholic. God / AA based programs have like an 8 times higher success rates then non God non accountable programs. These things really work.
The reason people might consider porn bad is a different question I will address seperately...
First of all, it is not a big stretch to assume it requires the exploitation of women. It is generally legal and it is a free country where people can do stupid things to themselves whenever they want, so it *would* be a stretch to say it should be illegal. But there are a lot of legal things that are distasteful, that people may decide they don't want to support it or be a part of. That does not mean they aren't tempted by it or don't want it, it means they believe it does more damage then good (to themselves and others) in the long run.
Porn is something that gives you momentary and intense stimulation of a pleasure center... it hits like a drug, just monitor the body responses of somebody that is not sensitized to it when they see it. Heart rate goes through the roof, skin flushes, things swell
(footnote... that gives me a laugh, I remember from high school health class circa 1983 that they described cocaine as "non addictive" because it lacked some of the chemical ramifications of heroin and morphene... What total and utter bullsh*t... just look at the effect crack (concentrated and cheap cocaine) has had on the inner cities, and you tell me it is not addictive)....
Anyway, another reason porn is destructive is obvious if you think about it. Imagine you are having sex with your favorite supermodel. It would be great, right? OK, now imagine you are having sex with someone who is totally unattractive to you, both in looks, in personality, they smell bad, they say rude things, they insult you and abuse you and disrespect you in every way. The physical sensations are not a lot different between the two scenarios, but there is a HUGE difference in the way your brain translates those sensations to actual perceptions of pleasure.
So there is a HUGE psychological component to the degree to which you enjoy sex. And pornography (as well as premarital, or non monogamous sex) wreaks havoc with that whole mechanisim, it really pollutes it and messes up the whole system. When I was in college, I could not find a person that would agree with me. Now, at the age of 37, I can't find a person that would disagree with me. Ignore me at your peril.
And as for this particular product, it has it's place. I could bypass it in about a minute, but even among the technical friends I have, not many could unless I told them a couple tricks.
And internet porn is a bigger problem then other porn. It is in my house, waiting for me at 2 in the morning when I had a fight with my wife, or a terrible day at work, or one too many beers. The AA guys have a great acronym... HALT (hungry angry lonely tired). If you are any two of these things, your risk of abuse of a self destructive behaviour goes through the roof! I don't have to get dressed, go out in the car, and go somewhere and buy it and bring it back... it is totally anonymous, and there is effectively NO obstacle between me and internet porn. Maybe 20 keystrokes, thats it.
I doubt anyone will read this, but there is an honest answer to the question.
If black, Jews, or Asians were treated with the same bigotry and contempt that Christians are treated here on Slashdot....... But I told myself I was not going to go there... where is that (bite my toungue emoticon
Mathematically impossible requirements are technically not against policy.
Actually Jesus was setting out a rigid hierarchy of right in wrong. So rigid that t is impossible for us to achieve - these are God's standards and without being perfect, we can't hope to achieve them. the point is that we can't trust in ourselves for salvation - we have to trust in God, ask forgiveness from him. As a loving God, he offers forgiveness to everyone. Mother Teressa needs it as much as Hitler did and God would be just as willing to forgive Hitler as her. Or me. Or you.
Okay, so if the "indiscretion" (emphasis yours) wasn't the actual cause of the breakup, then what was? Was the pornography the cause or just a symptom? Did the wife stop offering sex? Was the abuser exposed to abuse as a child? Did the abuse start after the pornography, or before?
Viewing pornography to the exclusion of other life activities is unhealthy, just as watching television, running model trains or going to the gym to the exclusion of normal life activities is unhealthy.
So, do you have to ask "Where's the harm?"
Hey, I know of five marriages that broke up in the past couple of years. Two of those cases involved the circumstance of the men breathing. I think the conclusion that breathing contributed to the issue cannot be denied.
I know that looking at porn doesn't cause marriages to fail, granted, but it is a symptom of something that *DOES*. And at the very least, if you eliminate that particular symptom, you do stand to slow down the deterioration process a bit, and maybe the couple can get help before they end up duking it out in court over which parent's house the kids end up living at most of the time.
I'm sure that just taking cough syrup can get rid of that annoying symptom of pneumonia, too. Excessive pornography (if more than the "norm" that 90% of men subscribe to) is, like you said, a symptom, and forcing a man to abandon that only outlet instead of treating the problem might make the decline happen much more quickly.
Anything based on morals is inherently subjective.
This is just as bad as peer pressure to get into drugs.
It prioritizes mass harrassment over reason.It turns the conflict (much of it natural at a certain age) internally on a person with the added weight of others who are contemptible in choosing to subject others under such pressure because:
1. It is dishones; the "right to look your accuser in the face" is taken away. Anyone looking their accusers in the face will be shamed. Any honest (willing to accept convincing evidence) dialogue is silenced and utterly impossible.
2. It is authority by majority, no accountability of the accusers is taken.
3. It is pressure based on raging fears and mass hysteria. 'Nuff said.
Welcome to Salem, MA 1692.
The message on the other side of this sig is false.
my alma matter *spits on ground* We had to go to sex ed seminars where former students (now in what appeared to be sexless marriages) told us to "save" ourselves. I mean we were 20 year olds for Christ's sake! Instead of practical, realistic discussion we were exhorted never to get "horizontal" or go on non group dates. It just seemed so pathetic and stupid. And judging by my peer's pregnancy rates woefully ineffective. I think schemes like the one shown here will be just about as effective.
Sorry about the rant. I guess I was just commiserating with you.
It is not enough to succeed, others must fail. - Gore Vidal
- Robert Heinlein, 1907-1988
Nerd: Derogatory term typically directed at anybody with a lower Slashdot ID than you.
Porn is a problem...for people who are opposed to it. If someone is opposed to it then what use is something like this to them when they're not going to be looking at it anyway?
It seems to me that you'll just have a big group of people who will all be watching each other not look at porn. The thing is, they wouldn't be looking at porn in the first place. Oh well, if this will occupy their time and keep them out of everyone else's business then perhaps in the end it will be a positive thing. The more that sexually repressed people and groups are distracted and preoccupied, the happier the rest of the world will be.
I think it is truly sad that anyone even CARES about porn. It is irrelevant to anyone who isn't a pervert, whether you're talking about the perverts who are obsessed with looking at it, or the ones who are obsessed with repressing their own sexual desires (if only they would do it right and stop breeding...). For the rest of us porn is an occasionally interesting distraction and nothing more. I've seen my share of porn and the vast majority of it is completely pointless. I get more out of the Sports Illustrated Swimsuit Issue and a Victoria's Secret catalog than I've ever gotten out of porn. Porn is for adolescent males and males who never grew past adolesence. Even so, that doesn't make it a social problem or something in need of remedy. Unless of course you mean that it needs to be better than it is.
This scheme does nothing but prove that technology gives people new ways to express their stupidity.
Lee
Muslim community leaders warn of backlash from tomorrow morning's terrorist attack.
As an employer, I don't filter or spy, and I probably won't do this either. But, for employers that are tempted, isn't this a great alternative? If you're married, a report of your web activities will be mailed to your spouse. No filters that will screw up and keep out legitimate sites; no employer spyware.
The only problem (as identified by my wife): "What if you wanted to buy me a present online?"
..We could TLDs to seperate the porn.. i.e. .XXX or something, from everything else.. and .KIDS for G rated material. Isn't this what the IANA is for anyway? I personally don't have any moral problem with forcing the porn industry to use specific TLDs, that way filtering is totally trivial, but isn't censored.
That's kind of off topic anyway because I'm not sure exactly what the point of this article is. On the one hand we have the church guilt machine, on the other hand we have porn addicts. Do either of these groups (prudish christians.. hello, that's _so_ victorian era, can anyone say 'sexual revolution happened in the '60s, we're not scared of naked bodies any more' -- or porn addicts) actually install filter software to protect _themselves_? That's kind of mind bogling. Those people have some serious self denile issues.
There are people with addictions to pornography. For most of us, it's just the occasional urge, the same way you might buy a lottery ticket or go to Vegas. But for some people, it is a serious psychological problem much like gambling addiction. This could be used as a tool to help those people. On the other hand, I share your abhorrence of its stated purpose.
Their privacy policy:
We will never share personal information about you or your surfing habits unless our withholding of this information would violate a specific request by a local, state, or federal authority.
So anybody with a governmental letterhead can get your info.
How they do it:
The only requirement is that the network administrator open the firewall port 41974, for outbound connections.
You'd think they could just send a mail message once in a while, but no...
Their terms and conditions:
NetAccountability may, in its sole discretion, change, modify, add or remove portions of the NetAccountability application and the services available with respect to the NetAccountability application or this license at any time without notice.
Coming soon, adware, spyware, what?
Wow. You're a shameless Karma whore, and a gigantic fucking plagiarist.
That's awesome, dude.
thats being ignored in this discussion so far (at least I haven't seen it in any of the highly moderated posts) and that is the difference between "guilt" and "accountability". Guilt or shame is something that most Christians I know would discourage, because it is self-dustructive. There's no use in obsessing over your sin. Even so, if we are honest with ourselves, we realise that each of us ar flawed (i.e. we have room for improvement, we have "fallen short" of the perfect mark). And that is perfectly reasonable because we are all human after all, but do we kick back and say, "well that's life" or do we strive for something better?
Accountability is not about guilt. Its almost the opposite, as a matter of fact, because guilt makes people hide -- accountability is about finding someone you can trust who will be your confident so you don't have to hide anymore. You can have someone, a real live human -- better if its someone you know well, not just a box or a screen or a program with some mysterious listener bihind -- who can share your struggle and help encourage to strive for that something better.
It is very painful for me to read some of these posts that say, "if you don't like it then just stop" because its just not that easy. And then they say, well if you can't stop then just accept that its ok. To which I must say for extended periods I pretty much did accept it as ok and the result was a life-wasting habit that ate up to 7 hours of each day (almost as bad as slashdot). To which they reply, "well you have to learn self-control buddy". But ask every person I know, self-control is not one of my major flaws in any other area. And porn was never a problem for me until I crossed that threshold a year ago. I can only say, from experience mind you -- not because some preacher said so, or because my mammy made a face when billy used a word when I was five -- that for me this is something I want to rid myself of, that this is not something I can do myself, and that methods like this help immensly if they are done right. Accountability is about building positive relationships and that, I think, is the intent of this program.
I work at a high school as a sys admin. Anyway, we occasionally have kids who arent too smart, dont disable proxy logging, and then decide to go surfing the net for pr0n. The most effective tool we have ever had for eliminating porn use is something very simple and maybe partially legal. We find the log, call the student end and give them two options. They can either be suspended for a week for intentionally looking at pornography, or they can call their mother and tell them what they were looking at. They must call them, tell them they were doing bad stuff, then list off the sites that they visited and were poking around. Yeah, it really works. Really really well.
it's here
--My sig is bigger than your sig--
All joking aside, I am not held accountable to anyone in regards to my internet browsing... Just as I am not held accountable in regards to the books I read, or the thoughts I think. There really is no difference between the books that I read, the internet sites that I read/visit, or the thoughts I think. These I refuse to submit to a "peer review process" they are mine, and mine alone.
"...[treat] every man after his desert, and who should 'scape whipping?"
NetAccountability works. I picked a buddy - downloaded the app on a couple machines (no additional fee). My wife and I talked about this - she can see my reports as well. (accountability partners are free) Good stuff. I talked with the ministry - they have 24/7 counseling and a vision for really helping protect families. Very family-oriented. Customer support is good. No linux or MAC version... I'll share more as I experience it... Noah
It's easy to see that this story is goign to make for more religious debate. Let me make something clear. (And these are my beliefs and not neccesarily yours and thats ok)
The purpose of Christian life is to bring glory to God.
I know no Christians who'd disagree with me on that...even some of the more fringe groups...Without quoting verses on this and that that seem to specifically address this issue, does viewing porn bring glory to God? not if it's done lustily--if it's done out of appreciation for the female body or whatever (that's a fine line, and one i'd rather not approach) then that could be different, but lust=bad (according to the Bible which I believe in and you may not neccesarily and that's ok). Generally a litmus test is whether you're masturbating in conjunction with the porn. If you are, it's probably (though not neccesarily) lust oriented.
This isn't to keep your kids off of porn. This is for people who desire to stop viewing it and need help--This is a filter for your own computer. It's not a bad thing to help people who want to develop self control develop it.
I'm not suggesting that y'all change your lives to think like me. For the record there was no indoctrination in my case--My parents do not believe what I do. I was not brought up in faith, but found it later (how I believe it should be found--one appreciates where they are more when they had to get there on their own) after THINKING OBJECTIVELY...something many Christians regrettably do not know how to do.
Okay. back to the pissing match. I hate it when that happens.
Brian