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Peer Pressure Porn Filter
Highwayman writes "Wired magazine presents one man's approach to stopping online pr0n 'Instead of relying on filters, the approach, which NetAccountability has been pitching primarily to religious groups, calls for Web users to share records of their online activity. Users pick a friend, spouse or other confidant who receives a regular report showing which sites they visit, highlighting potentially objectionable material.'"
Think of it as a new way of recommending sites to your friends :)
To make laws that man cannot, and will not obey, serves to bring all law into contempt.
--E.C. Stanton
I already thought the government was going this for us.... on a more serious note... HAHAHAH HAHAHA HAAHAHA!
why would someone willingly subject themselves to this? I mean, we're all human, we all have urges, and if any of us have gone out and looked at pr0n somewhere, how does that make us a bad person?
Comment removed based on user account deletion
Er, maybe I've missed something here but if you're a Catholic priest and you want to look at kiddy pictures then you're hardly likely to hand your logs over to someone are you?
Sorry, but my karma just ran over your dogma.
Knowing the guys I work with, this technology could possibly allow me to build the best list of free porn sites ever.
Wow This has to be one of the worst ideas i've ever heard for censoring ever.
Why don't these people just give their records up to EVERYONE? WHAT ARE THEY HIDING?
Everyone know that privacy is only needed because it's hiding things that are illegal or immoral.
Yeah, I'll sign up.
This is a very good idea. It could potentially weed out other sorts of people as well. For example, I visit Slashdot about eighty times a day. I am embarassed about this addiction. If I could notify someone who cared about me, then I might be able to get support to stop it.
Addiction to websites is a serious matter. Online gambling is on the rise, pornography is problematic, and addiction to chat forums like Slashdot and ICQ NSync channels is a big problem for people. As an additional plus, this could be used to recognize and weed out subversive political and religious views, and stop people from looking at questionable material in those veins.
... is : NetAccountability - Because Lots of Little Brothers are Beter than Big Brother
He calls up our University's tech services to report his internet connection sucked. It fixed itself within a few hours. The next day, he gets a call saying that his connection should work now, and that he had visited some "interesting" sites and that the network is for "academic use only", but that they had monitored his activity only because he had complained.
To make laws that man cannot, and will not obey, serves to bring all law into contempt.
--E.C. Stanton
This product is a load of crap, pure and simple. All it does is make the information in the browser's history preety, with bar graphs and whatnot. A total waste of time and money designed by a reactionary group of religious zealots.
The only reason I keep my Windows partition is so I can mount it like the bitch that it is.
Anyone who works at a major corporation is probably sharing their web use records with the HR dept whether they know it or not...
Have you seen my stapler?
You surfed goatse, like, 20 times this month!
Donate background CPU time to fight cancer.
"Chuck Swindoll"?
It sounds like a bad Simpsons joke...
Why would I want to do that?
My other account has a 3-digit UID.
nobody will participate. If I *knew* I visisted a pr0n site, would I willingly let someone else see my web use log knowing that they'd be displeased? That's mental! I call this idea fux0r3d.
Teacher hands out quiz...
Scribble on paper briefly...
Ignore for 20 minutes...
Teacher-"Trade quizes."
End result:
Jason-"Yeah, Chris got a 98"
Chris-"Jason got a 96"
Yeah, this should be effective *grin*
---"What did I say that sounded like 'Tell me about your day?'"---
I was just about to post this same thought, and I noticed you beat me to it. There is a huge difference between people who are trying to monitor and clean up their own online surfing habits (for whatever reasons) and what the headline and story description said.
This is just a way for people to keep them accountable in a way described in the Bible. Of course, knowing Slashdot, this will be made fun of to no end. People attempting to live their lives according to an external and somewhat objective standard is just so medieval.
Forget the whales - save the babies.
They should call this the Gladys Kravitz filter.
--Rick "If it isn't broken, take it apart and find out why."
RTFA. It's not a filter. It's you sending a record to others frequently, so people can see if you look at pr0n. It's supposed to shame you into not looking at pr0n. Unfortunately, for guys who aren't married, odds are you have friends who are into pr0n, too.
Only in slashdot are posts of solidarity modded at -1 Redundant, while posts of antagonism are modded as -1 Flamebait.
"You prev! I see from the NetAccountablity log you've been "browsing" FreshMeat again!"
"But honey, it's all about software! Honest!"
"Software, hardcore, whatever, it's all dirty!"
Opinions on the Twiddler2 hand-held keyboard?
...for many reasons.
First, the whole "my religion doesn't allow me to look at porn" argument is just nuts. If you truly believe this, you won't need your big brother (or whomever) to watch you.
Second, what about self control? Okay, you don't want to look at porn. So the only way you can stop is to have your PC report which sites you visit to Grandma?
Finally, if you want to look at porn, look at porn. If your religion forbids it, well, that sucks... but otherwise, who the hell cares if you look at porn? I enjoy it, am not ashamed of it, and I certainly don't need anyone else (or any religion) scrutinizing what sites I visit.
So next we'll be CCing our Visa bill to someone, to curb excessive spending; faxing the grocery list/receipt to help with over-eating; and so on. Do these people actually need a babysitter? If so, what are they doing living on their own, let alone surfing the 'Net without supervision?
NGWave - Fast Sound Editor for Windows
Man, if I'm watching some porn and my girlfriend walks into the room, she just shakes her head and laughs. And vice versa. People are prudes.
People who have something to hide or wish to have thier privacy respected (or really dig pr0n) would never opt in. Those that don't...might.
so whats the point here?
'nuff said.
I'd have skipped school with my friends, spent my days in the arcade and ignored my homework, fantasizing about how I'd write better games than...
oh. wait. that's what happened. nevermind.
Pornix, a bootable linux cd with a stripped copy of xfree86, kde, konqueror and mplayer. All history tracking will be sent to /dev/null, your files will be stored in a special encrypted partition that needs a password to boot the cd, and a password to access the partition. A panic key which quickly loads http://www.yahoo.com is also included.
For all normal uses, you can surf without the cdrom. Don't forget to keep it safe.
This makes no sense to me at all. Filters are supposed to keep other people (your kids, your patrons, your employees) away from using your machine to see porn, but this scheme is about your own habits. If you don't want to see porn, don't go to porn sites. How is sending someone a list of what sites you view going to help you do that?
Unless you buy into the silly idea put forth by some on the wacko fringe of the religious right that porn is somehow "addictive", and this is suposed to be like an alcoholic having a friend keep an eye out to make sure he doesn't drink...even then, why would you pay this middleman?
Tom Swiss | the infamous tms | my blog
You cannot wash away blood with blood
Or rosy palmed.
Some men spend their entire lives trying to kill themselves for having been born. --Ross MacDonald
Not a bad idea, really... but it's only as effective as any other form of self-censorship is. If there's any way to turn it off... unless it works on a double-key system, wherein you need two separate passwords.... or it just can't be bypassed completely. At any rate, glad to see that the concept of self-censorship is alive and well. And it wouldn't be such a bad thing to just have a regular way to track your internet usage for your own personal information anyway. Just the other day my wife lamented the lack of a game timer on The Sims Online..
Seems like when we're online, sometimes self-awareness goes out the window. Nothing new to most of us, but I think we'd all be shocked at how much time we actively spend online, where we go, that sort of thing. Bring it on.
I don't think I want people knowing that I read slashdot....
They would be able to find those themselves in the wad of stuff I visit.
Too easy...
To make laws that man cannot, and will not obey, serves to bring all law into contempt.
--E.C. Stanton
This won't have any impact on the vocal minority who want to impose content filtering on public access points (e.g. libraries), since they want to "protect the innocent" by all means, including force.
Speaking of libraries, there's already a peer-pressure effect. My wife works as a librarian and reports she doesnt't have trouble with people surfing "objectionable" sites because all of the machines are well in the open with plenty of patrons passing by. (She works in the Children's room, but also sits on Adult Reference and has a clear line of sight to most machines.)
I've got dibs on Hugh Hefner as who I'd have my report emailed to!
I used to have a good sig...
It'd take someone a freaking long time to filter through all of the places that I view in one day.
;-)
Add to this approach a method of collaboration, so that all sites that are approved by the *monitors* would then gain points where sites that are not approved would lose points. Then allow the *monitors* to auto approve anything that is above certain point levels.
This might cut down on the amount of data to crawl through.
Now if I could just find a decent source of audio-porn. You #(*$& visually oriented people...
...that the person sending their log of sites visited gives a rat's ass if people know he's looking at porn.
Trolls lurk everywhere. Mod them down.
This doesn't interfere with any surfing or usenet traffic at all. It just logs it, sends the reports to a server where people you designate check up on you.
You are free to surf as much of whatever sites as you want.
(flame suit on) Why buy the cow when you get the milk for free? :) (/flame suit)
To make laws that man cannot, and will not obey, serves to bring all law into contempt.
--E.C. Stanton
If somebody wants to sneak a quick drink one night, is he really going to share that with a group of semi-strangers at the next AA meeting?
It'll never work.
Evil is the money of root.
If someone wants to look at porn they will just do so w/o sending 'reports' to anyone, or they will edit their reports.
This 'idea' will only be used by people who have nothing to hide, dont look at porn, and therefore wont be helped at all by it.
And I strongly believe that internet activity is PERSONAL and should be kept private. There are hundreds or reasons other than porn why you might not want to share your records with other people.
"I wan't to stop looking at porn, but can't control myself, so I'll make it so that if I do look at porn someone will know that I did and I'll be embarassed."
And you just know that people will share tricks for getting around the monitoring software, which adds a whole new layer of dishonesty and self-contempt to the whole exercise.
Wouldn't be a whole lot easier to either 1) just stop looking at porn, or 2) admit that you like porn and get on with things?
Cheers
-b
If I wanted a sig I would have filled in that stupid box.
I've already explained to my wife that Freshmeat isn't a pr0n site. Now I would have to explain that to someone else too? Great...
(As a side note: my wife's actual comment was "Freshmeat? A porn site? Cool! Let's see!")
why don't we make people that surf questionable material wear a distinctive mark? Like a yellow star, a pink triangle or something... Oh, wait. It's been done before.
there's no place like ~
http://www.thehuns.com/
;P
Just for the record. Don't shoot me!
What is equally distrubing is that these are probably the same people that think the rest of us have the same problem and must be saved from ourselves. They lobby to get laws passed because "someone must watch over us" to protect us from ourselves.
Prevent email address forgery. Publish SPF records for y
You do realize if your peer group is primarily guys, this may turn out to have negative consequences (read - porn swapping engine). =P
This guy comes up with a system that imposes nothing on others. It is a tool for people who decide that they would like to use. But it gets slammed by so many here because so many slashdotters are not about freedom. They are about freedom that they agree with.
It is not invasion of privacy if you install it on purpose.
It is not religious judgement of others if people use tools that monitor their own activity.
This is an example of someone having an idea that ought to be welcome here. Rather than removing choices or limiting activity- people are given new choices to use if they so wish.
Those of you who think pornography cannot be destructive are unaware of the fact that it can ruin some peoples lives. If they want help with that- what is the harm?
It's hard to believe that's how Micronians are made. Why don't we see it right now by having you both kiss one another?
Hell, if people saw their own Slashdot usage, they'd be appalled.
Why do you always bring two Mormans fishing?
Because if you bring one, he'll drink all your beer.
mmm well, ok, half will be spam, the other half will be worms that in the name of someone infected reports "visited sites" to all in their outlook contact list.
In case you don't read the story... check out this link from it.
http://www.xxxchurch.com/default.asp
One of the funniest things I've seen in a while.
(It's not porn, and is workplace-safe!)
Why buy the cow when you get the milk for free?
Uhhh...that thing between your legs is NOT a cow's teat that needs regular milkings!
You're using her as bait, Master!
as for the porn watching. Why is there a presumption this is bad and must be stopped? I mean just because ones adult procilivities might be a private matter that would be embarassing if revealed, especially to a freind, does not mean they are bad and should be stifled.
there is seems to be a purtian starting assumption that is simply wrong here. Its important to object to this peer pressure as a matter of principle even if you dont feel threaten you.
As for stopping children from getting porn, something I can beleive is a very good idea. But I dont see how this would help. In principle every parent could look at their childrens web logs but either wont, cant, or the children have alternative access points or methods of hiding their tracks. Still its a minimal thing every parent should do. Its not spying per se, but a way of showing your kid you set limits because you care about them
Some drink at the fountain of knowledge. Others just gargle.
Seems to me that if a person's convictions in their own beliefs and morals doesn't prevent them from doing what they consider wrong, then they need counseling rather than guilt to cure it. It also logs usage for a connection, not an individual, so I would think that your entire household would have to agree to this. Talk about ugly peer pressure with your kids when they know an outsider is watching them. And what about accidents? I've tried to get one web site, but arrived at another because I goofed somewhere on the URL. What about follow-up? If I was supposed to watch someone else, I would not feel inclined to confron them if they cruise into the "naughty stuff". Maybe I'm not right for this thing, tho.
You know, I posted this without really thinking. Let my apologize for beuing a jerk. This comment was insensitive,
Well played. You're just missing the part with the wirey grey-haired scientist who says how it will never work
To make laws that man cannot, and will not obey, serves to bring all law into contempt.
--E.C. Stanton
Actually, it would be funny to see them try to access "localhost", cause unless they have brag and my shell scripts that run every night, forget about it. :-)
My beliefs do not require that you agree with them.
-14:42:34- Post Comment with +1 karma bonus
-14:43:21- Visit Sublime Directory to get free porn
-14:47:43- Begin wget all
14:48:42- Load pictures into IMGV
14:49:21- Begin a quick pickup game of "Five against one"
14:52:32- I win
14:53:33- Quick Clean-Up, time to check my karma rating for funny comment
I tell ya what, this logging thing could be fun
And I agree, masturbation and pornography are definantelly the downfall of society, just think of all those HAPPY SEXUALLY REPRESSED PEOPLE OUT THERE!!
jeeze people, that's why we got thumbs, use um!
Ignore the "p2p is theft" trolls, they're just uninformed
I know the attempt is to create a AA for porn addicts but what is to stop this from degrading into some Fundie Porn Swap? Makes you wonder doesn't it.
So, my son, you frequent this evil site named X which shall remain nameless for I cannot speak such an evil name. /.ed servers!!
How can you look at a site that features:
a nasty goat man
the defimation of poor inocent Natalie Portman
Thousands of references to the heart of all evil: SOVIET RUSSIA??
For this, I shall cast ye into a lake of fire, made up of poor,
What, me Tweet?
Perhaps the participants in this wrong-headed scheme could get uniforms or something. Maybe some kind of shirt. Brown. That's it's - brown shirts. And armbands, too!!
But seriously, this has to one of the stupidest ideas I've heard in awhile. It smacks of those Promise Keepers guys.
*shivers*
CrazyLegs
"Pork!!" said the Fish, and we all laughed.
Get your clean weblogs here!
100% guarenteed to pass the sinful site test.
HPC for Primates. Read Cluster Monkey
TimBrown233: Father, forgive me, for I have sinned.
TheRevster31: Do not be disheartened, child, for Satan, also known as the Hun in your case, tempts us at all hours.
"I only speak the truth"
Karma: null(Mostly affected by an unassigned variable)
Don't say that... the children don't know any different
To make laws that man cannot, and will not obey, serves to bring all law into contempt.
--E.C. Stanton
Took long enough for someone to respond to all the idiotic posts above. I agree 100%. I just wish I had some mod points for ya.... ;-)
"Owning a computer is like having your very own TV -- with a built in radio!" - Ed Helms
Comment removed based on user account deletion
The great thing about objective standards is that there's so many to choose from. Do you want the Fred Phelps brand of biblical objectivity, the Jerry Farwell brand of biblical objectivity, or the liberal brand of bibilical objectivity that allows for gay ministers?
Just because Christians *claim* it's objective doesn't mean it is.
You know, that ad where the two butterflys are out on the town together?
See, M$ beat them to the punch.
LosT
"We are the music makers, and we are the dreamers of dreams."
For the next hour feel free to surf all the porn sites you want, the NetAccountability server will be experiencing "technical" difficulties.
Does this thing log nntp requests as well? Not all porn is on the web.
These people are going to get a rude awakening when some piece of spyware or malicious website starts poping up porn ads everywhere and it shows up in their logs. Will their narrow-minded, conservative buddies believe that they didn't really intentionally hit that porn site? I doubt it considering that this product is for people that honestly believe that the proliferation of porn on the internet is a serious problem and that they need to somehow protect each other from it. If none of them would ever hit a porn site, then they obviously wouldn't need the product to begin with right?
As clever of an idea as this is for these ultra-conservative, bible-thumping freaks, I think it may actually fail for technical reasons alone.
I don't understand how this is supposed to replace a filter?
Doing this is just going to give someone you trust a list of x rated popups that come up without your consent that you will then proceed to the doghouse for.
Filters are the way to go still. Until they pass laws forcing x-rated material to have a certain HTML code in it which you can then just weed out, filtering is still the best solution.
I hope I'm not completely redundant when I say that this goes on way more than just this idea. Religious types have been trying to reconcile the concept of Information That Wants To Be Free via the web for quite a while.
I wouldn't be surprised if religious-based ISPs do a brisk business with insane filters.
Religions are constantly trying to balance their moral standings above the rest of the world, but also try to interact with people in some bizarre way. It'd be best if they simply stuck to their webrings of God Is Great homemade fluff.
mug
War is OK, but porn is not?
. ;-)
Only wrong doing here is to let little Joe believe its common to have a dick like a redwood to have sex
An oak is sufficient
Best regards,
Steen Suder
-- for email: send to
Nearly everyone who has posted so far as missed the point... pornography is a very real concern for many Christian men. Most of the world doesn't consider "lust" to bad at all... however, I think it can be incredibly destructive. Looking at pornography is a subtle form of adultery, whether you'd like to admit it or not. That being said, the Internet has an unlimited supply of porn that is available 24/7, and accessing it is completely anoymous. It is very easy to fall into this temptation, and it's very easy to become addicted to it. Please don't try to dispute this... just because *you* happen to see no problem with porn doesn't mean countless people have had real struggles with it. This program is designed for the person who wants to break an addictive cycle through accountibility, which is the basis for 12-step programs and other generally accepted methods for breaking addition. I'm really glad that someone has taken initiative to provide this kind of help.
It will work for the people it targets. It will work because they want it to - they've got to volunteer for it more or less.
It will work the weight-watchers, alcoholics anonymous and group thereapy work. It will provide a little encouragement and the threat of shame.
It won't work if you wouldn't be ashamed or if you don't want to stop looking at porn, but then you won't be signing up, will you? Just as you didn't sign up for weight-watchers - which would never make Me loose weight, cause I'm proud to eat what I want and I'm underweight.
thx, I'll check it out.
Key point from the article: " Users pick a friend, spouse or other confidant".
This will work - depending on the sincerity of the person using it. If they choose people close to them - who share similar values - they it will work to the extent of their value system. If they choose Joe Blow from church of the whatever who believe that women are from the devil, then yes it will fail. But if they choose someone from their peer group that they trust and know shares similar values as they do, the it will work to the level they choose it to.
This is a sad day for me, as a fan of slashdot. The comments here belittle one man's attempt to improve himself. His actions are to be commended, if anything.
I myself meet on a regular basis with other men who share a similar code-of-ethics - we hold each other accountable, voluntarily, as a check on our own behavior. In case no one's noticed, we human's don't do so well with the self control thing. The internet can consume much of our time, and I'm somewhat relieved to see others making an effort to cognatively assess and control the impact it has on their lives.
Feel free to lament the things which bind you (hey, I don't like MS either...), but some of you really need to figure out what - if anything - you stand for. I would expect this crowd to at least be capable of supporting an individual's right to overcome adversity they face.
By the way...accountability works. Yes, it's hard to admit to shameful things. And it's harder still to recognize (and admit to) repeating patterns of destructive behavior in one's life. There are a lot of worthwhile things that are hard.
Your monitor is staring at you.
I think that this article answers the greatest moral question of our age, are we raising a generation of porn slackers?
To make laws that man cannot, and will not obey, serves to bring all law into contempt.
--E.C. Stanton
To find out what the devil doesn't want me to view. So far, its just been a bunch of boring religious sites.
"It puts a little more power back in the user's hands,"
Here's my solution: Don't do it!
Why jump through all these hoops to not look at questionable sites. If you're too young to understand that a website is bad, then you shouldn't be web browsing w/o your parent or guardian in the first place.
.smell my feet.
I didn't claim anything of the sort. I'm talking about people who have picked some sort of standard, whatever that may be, and are trying to stick to it. It is an objective standard for them to live by because it doesn't, or at least shouldn't, depend on how they feel from moment to moment.
Forget the whales - save the babies.
Unless your some fanatical religuous zealot, what good reason do you have to be stopping yourself or your peers from browsing "objectional content" including Porn sites?
:)
I can see filters for stopping kids from getting porn spam, or viewing porn sites, but once your of a consulting age, why not tell everyone to bugger off and mind their own business?
Sheesh... some people!
So now you can track people. Guilt keeps them from porn. For religious groups? What about, oh say ... TRUST?
I find sharp echoes in this from Shakespeare's Measure for Measure. For those who aren't familiar with it, the Puritan Angelo is given governing power due to his impeccable conscience and aversion to sin. It doesn't take him long, however, to fall in love with another man's woman. There's a particularly relevant passage somewhere in the middle of the play (don't remember act, scene) where he expresses his anguish and self-loathing for having fallen victim to adulterous lusts. If that type of scathing self-scrutiny is what motivates people to use this sort of thing, I pity them deeply - no person should have to live with themselves as their greatest enemy.
I have mine set to filter most NON pr0n. I don't need all that other stuff! Just give me lots of pr0n and I'm a happy camper. Of course, at this point, Car & Driver, Fry's ads, Sam Ash catalogs and a few other things seem to qualify as porn according to the wife.
That's gotta be the dumbest thing since Homer Simpson.
re-invent wheels
I hear Ron Jeremy is selling his history session on ebay...
After all, it was peer pressure that got me started on pr0n in the first place!
When you go fishing, why do you have to take 2 mormons?
Because if you only take one, he'll drink all your beer.
I demand a million helicopters and a DOLLAR!
Robert K. Bowfinger: We're finished! It's over between us!
Daisy: But why?
Robert K. Bowfinger: You slept with Jiff.
Daisy: So?
Robert K. Bowfinger: You know, I never thought about it that way.
Daisy: So I'll see you tonight?
Robert K. Bowfinger: What time?
Heaven help you if while using this service you are looking to catch a bus to visit some relatives. You mistakenly type www.greyhond.com (POPUP WARNING)....instead of www.greyhound.com.
My, what your friend or loved one will think of you...
Mordor...a magical, mythical land where women are more rare than dragons--but where every man would rather find a dragon
What about people like me who get all their pr0n from KazzaLite? You know, all those totally free high quality video clips that anyone can get?
... for religous reasons ..
What am I supposed to do if I want my privacy invaded? You know
---- "Logoff! That cookie shit makes me nervous!" - A. Soprano
will report on their "friends" activities.
Why are there so many busy-bodies in the world?
http://nwbagpipes.com/
You are looking at "human objectivity"... in nearly all areas, the Bible is quite clear. With regard to pornography, how many ways can you contrue Matthew 5:28 - "But I tell you that anyone who looks at a woman lustfully has already committed adultery with her in his heart"? Most "brands" as you say are derived from some interpretation from the Bible that is very clearly incorrect. Like it or not, the Bible provides an excellent moral standard.
Just join a club to form a
- whitelist - stuff that's definitely OK to see
- blacklist - stuff that's definitely not OK to see
- graylist - stuff that's outside the known universe
to define your own internet experience. Sounds like a great idea to me.Think of the possibilities, too. The anti-matter folks and the matter folks can help each other with their respective lists.
Some of the pr0n viewing crowd can join the Moral Majority Virtual web but just set (white=black and black=white) and everyone wins.
"Provided by the management for your protection."
How much time can they expect a person to spend going over all their friends' usage logs? Seems like it would eventually become tedious and people would lose interest.
So if I'm tring to clean up my act and REALLY need to look at p0rn i guess i would just have to use the free access at the library that doens't report to my "sponsor". HE HE HE
When you go fishing with a Baptist, how do you keep him from drinking all your beer?
Invite along another Baptist.
*ba* *dum* *bum*
"Sometimes a woman is a kind of religion, she can save your soul & set you free from all your sins" - Bad Examples
...are my friends because we have things in common... like porn! Any friend who belittles me for checking out porn isn't a friend worth keeping. I personally think that this is a stupid fucking idea.
"But if they choose someone from their peer group that they trust and know shares similar values as they do"
I should have elaborated on this point as being one of the reasons why it won't work. In fact,I think the Bible has some verse about this, "blind leading the blind". Basically I get to pick my judge! Where would the conflict come in? If I was secretly addicted to porn, all I would need to do is pick some young unmarried man to be my peer reviewer. Odds are if he's staying celibate he's got to be dipping in the porn fountain, especially if he's good with computers.
Meanwhile Mrs. Chastity Witheredpuss will have one of the ladies from her sewing circle monitor her Internet habits...but since it's pretty much all just aol.com there's nothing scandalous to report.
Now, if your browsing habits were broadcast to a number of people, or people that you didn't choose, that would be something intimidating enough to perhaps prevent you from viewing porn. But as I said, nobody in their right mind would open this can of worms.
The only people I could see this helping are people who confess they are addicted to porn and are asking for peer review because they want help in avoiding temptation. But all it would probably do in this case is return them back to movies, magazines, and other non-trackable porn.
All in all, still a worthless idea.
- JoeShmoe
.
-- I wonder which will go down in history as the bigger failure: the War on Drugs or the War on Filesharing
I found this out when I was teaching intermediate macroeconomics at Vanderbilt University. Being an expensive private university, the adminstration has made a real fetish out of teaching evaluations. Several times I noticed in the "anonymous" but handwritten evaluations that students who had poor attendance indicated that my lectures were disgorganized. (Yeah, I see the causality problem, but I really didn't think the lectures were disorganized, but they do build on each other.) So I decided to take attendance at every class, by passing around a sign up sheet. Attendance did not count towards the students' grades, but just the fact that I kept a record increased attendance. I asked a few students about this, and without prompting from me, they said that just knowing that it was written down somewhere that they hadn't been to class made them more likely to come.
& it did seem to improve my evaluations as well. I know that college students are supposed to be adults, and shouldn't need this kind of psychological trick, blah-blah-blah, but it worked, and in academia the moral high ground is occupied exclusively by tenured professors.
Interestingly enough, years later I read a great book on business management written a Buddhist monk who worked in the diamond industry (The Diamond Cutter by Geshe Michael Roach) that suggests simply keeping track of errors, with no actual or implied punishments, will reduce the number of errors dramatically. The book is very interesting --- I reccommend it highly.
foldplay your photos won't know what hit them.
Right awn brothah!!! One thing I'm extrordinarily tired of is the right-wingers' propensity towards mindless automaton-like adherence to the Republican ideal... where the hell are the "moderate" Republicans? Do ANY exist at all? All you loser right-wingers are just falling in line behind the President and his march toward war. Let's not even begin to think about what this all might start - WWIII is what I see coming! And you know what? The worst thing about it is that WE will ahve been the ones to have started it! When was the last time you can think of a war on foreign soil that we started? Hmmm? Can you think of one? I can't. My history, however, is admittedly not my strong suit. However, it is quite imperative that we be seen around the world as the good guys, not fucking cowboys! The very worst thing about all this is that fucker George W. flat out doesn't listen to the American public! There's a HUGE amount of protest against this damn war. And those of us who don't agree are fucking powerless. Funny how a goddamn Republic president is in place to do his typical Republican war-mongering behavior just in time for 911. So strange that it all occurs just when the American public is beginning to realize his policies aren't working... that he's a complete moron. Interesting the engineering that went on in getting him into the Whitehouse... Bah! End of my incoherent rant!
Not that I know anyone into THAT stuff (except maybe a priest), but I might know some hardware tinkerers that may have ordered a mod chip at some point.
It is an objective standard for them to live by
That word you keep using... I don't think it means what you think it means.
You can only drink 30 or 40 glasses of beer a day, no matter how rich you are.
-- Colonel Adolphus Busch
He's not trying to get everyone to do this, therefore he's pushing nothing on anyone. The only folks involved would be those that choose to get involved. Personally, I would not get involved. If I did, the first time someone confronted me with something they considered wrong, they would learn that my philosophies don't match their own.
If you're often foolish enough to click the goatse link on /. - it just looks bad.
Of course, if the first one doesn't clue you in enough that you're careful about what links you click, then perhaps you deserve to be shunned.
see, Mathew practically tells us it's ok to look at a man lustfully... no wait.
it's a joke, laugh. or don't.
The Kruger Dunning explains most post on
David Brin is a big proponent of a "transparent society" in which everyone is watched by someone else. Although it has its pros and cons, this sort of software is a great tool for such a society. Amusingly, it's being used by conservatives while at the same time creating a society proposed by a liberal idealist.
As many posters have suggested, adult entertainment is not a problem in itself. But it is when a teenager steals a credit card and runs up many tens of thousands of dollays in debt! This kind of software is good because you get to pick someone that you trust (maybe an aunt, an uncle or a friend) and allow them to offer a second perspective on things that you do. Too many people are isolated from others and never learn to question their own actions.
If everyone's actions were known to someone else, our country would operate a lot more smoothly. Imagine making a small change to this software: Your actions are summarized for someone else to view, but anonymously. They can opt to suggest to you that you might benefit from help if they think that what you are doing is unusual. You can ignore it, but a reality check might help a lot of people, even if it's just a link to finding free porn instead of paying a ton of cash for it.
-Elentar
The wheel it turns, around and around, with an ancient rumbling sound.
It sounds like a great way to sabotage someone's marriage/career/political appointment... open up trailerparkswappers.com on their computer a few times. This looks service looks like a bad idea on many different levels..
Reminds me of the Shawshank Redemption when the evil warden has Dufrane's cell tossed. The warden notes his bible and asks, "What's your favorite passage?" Dufrane responds "Watch ye therefore, for ye know not when the master of the house cometh." (Mark 13:35) When the warden hands back the bible he says "Salvation lies within." We later learn the bible contains the rock hammer Andy uses to tunnel out of prison.
Sounds like the kind of Christian that needs a tool like this is the same as that hypocrite, religious blowhard of a warden.
The ones that scream the loudest on the downfall of virtue speak from personal experience.
Yeah, we had more or less this stuff in germany, some 70 years ago. You know what a Blockwart is ?
This is a good idea. This is for people who really don't want to get involved with pornography or want to get rid of an existing habit (guess which one is harder?). Curiosity, simple base impulses, etc can lead to situations people really didn't want to be in, and pornography can scar for life.
However, it's surprising how "rationally" we make decisions even in our most "irrational" moments and desires. It's one of the most surprising things in an intro to econ class- a good illustration is how economists correctly predicted that the implementation of safety features in cars Nader pushed for with "Unsafe at Any Speed" would cause an increase in the number of accidents, since the percieved costs of behavior which leads to accidents would drop. The knowledge that your actions can be known by others can make all the difference in these kinds of situations.
Unfortunately, their homepage doesn't seem to give any implementation details. This would have to be difficult to disable (if you could turn it off whenever you visited a bad site and then turn it back on, it might make you think twice but probably wouldn't) as well as be very good at analyzing the data (nobody wants to have to run through huge connection logs and try to guess if sites are pornographic or no, and nobody wants to have to convince people, as noted in another post, that Freshmeat isn't some sort of site for sadomasochists).
This could be a great opportunity for understanding and discussion. Istead, the slashdot community has latched on to the combined theme of religion and pornography and has used the opportunity to heap derision and ridicule on a group of people simply because they think differently.
It seems rather hypocritical to demand tolerance for your own personal views and then in turn refuse to tolerate views other than your own.
Now for an actual comment on the story: I would say this idea boils down to obtaining self-control by making all of your private actions public. I think such an approach can be viewed as only a means to an end, because as a final solution it is fundamentally flawed. This is because true self-control is the thing that is manifested when nobody else is looking. True self-control must ultimately come from within.
I agree! Just ask the Catholic Church, the multitudes of Protestant denominations, Branch Dividians, Mormons, Jehovah's Witnesses, Rastafarians, KKK, gay Christians, Charismatics, etc.
:)
What a standard
This guy clearly has his head in the sand. There is no way this idea could ever succeed, you know why? Because there is no hard and fast rulebook for defining pornography. So no matter how "religious" you are, there is someone who is going to have a more restrictive viewpoint than you. When you discuss movies with friends who are "religious" you can see exactly what I'm talking about.
Which is exactly why something like this will work, but a centralized "don't let them see this it's dirty" filtering system won't.
These programs email your suriong habits to a friend or pastor, someone who knows you and can agree on what you should and should not be looking for. For example, someone shopping for a valentine's gift for his wife would have a fairly good reason for visiting victoria's secret, but an unmarried man wouldn't.
These programs are about defining your own standards, and having someone help you hold to them.
My pastors actually say that something can be sinful for one person and not another. If a man has a problem with violence, he shouldn't be watching violent movies, but for a man without that problem, the Matrix is nothing but a fun movie. For a man with an alcohol addiction, a glass of wine is a bad idea, but for a man without that problem, it's simply something that goes well with the fish.
Thomas Galvin
If I am reading it correctly, you quote actually has the nerve to claim that pr0n is bad. Where are you getting this alleged "excellent moral standard" out of?:)
Is this a sigs-optional kind of place? 'Cause I am totally down with that if you know what I mean.
"... Brandon Cotter is urging moralistic Web surfers to take matters into their own hands"
Isn't "taking matters into their own hands" the problem that they're trying to solve?
We belittle the mans attempt not to improve himself, but his attempt to suggest that the rest of the world need this to improve. That's just typical Christian hybris. If he cannot control himself not to look at porn then he might have a real problem, but the problem isn't really with porn, or even the world wide web, the problem is much more _fundamental_ than that, if you get my drift.
Stuff like what you put in the subject is exactly what we oppose, the belief that there is some sort of absolute morality and that those who look at porn and can handle it (and enjoy it!) are actually _bad_, when in fact they are not.
A few years back I was visiting the school where my mother works to teach some of the kids to program. During the break, I decided to make use of their Internet connection. A lot of the sites I wanted to look at were blocked. This struck me as odd. I eventually worked out that their porn filter was counting the occurence of the letter 'x' on a page, and blocking it if it hit a certain limit. This made almost any *nix site appear to be a porn site.
I am TheRaven on Soylent News
There was a study done a while back, and I'm... aha, found it. Avedon Carol, in "nudes, prudes and attitudes", references a study.
"When Goldstein found that *all* of the rapists in his study sample had been punished for looking at pornography, while a mere 7 per cent of his cohort sample had been, that set off alarm bells for anyone who really cared about the causes of sexual violence."
Religion is a much bigger threat to women than porn ever could be, on many, many levels.
--grendel drago
Laws do not persuade just because they threaten. --Seneca
Just replying to myself- my post kind of looks like I'm disparaging Nader's safety crusade. I'm not- though the number of accidents increased by a fair bit, the number of deaths in accidents dropped by enough to compensate. It's just an example.
A moral system that glorifies a sociopathic, genocidal tyrant that's all too willing to use orbital bombardment on two bronze age cities, saving only the family that was willing to grovel to him sufficiently.... and that is also willing to drown an entire PLANET simply because the inhabitants of said planet weren't grovelling to him sufficiently... is beneath my contempt.
Grow UP humans!
in nearly all areas, the Bible is quite clear. Like it or not, the Bible provides an excellent moral standard.
Dear Dr. Laura:
Thank you for doing so much to educate people regarding God's Law. I have learned a great deal from your show, and I try to share that knowledge with as many people as I can. When people try to defend the homosexual lifestyle, for example, I simply remind them that Leviticus 18:22 clearly states it to be an abomination. End of debate.
I do need some advice from you, however, regarding some of the specific laws and how to follow them:
a) When I burn a bull on the altar as a sacrifice, I know it creates a pleasing odor for the Lord (Lev.1:9).The problem is my neighbors. They claim the odor is not pleasing to them. Should I smite them?
b) I would like to sell my daughter into slavery, as sanctioned in Exodus 21:7.In this day and age, what do you think would be a fair price for her?
c) I know that I am allowed no contact with a woman while she is in her period of menstrual uncleanness (Lev.15:19-24).The problem is, how do I tell? I have tried asking, but most women take offense.
d) Lev.25:44 states that I may indeed possess slaves, both male and female, provided they are purchased from neighboring nations. A friend of mine claims that this applies to Mexicans, but not Canadians. Can you clarify? Why can't I own Canadians?
e) I have a neighbor who insists on working on the Sabbath. Exodus 35:2 clearly states he should be put to death. Am I morally obligated to kill him myself?
f) A friend of mine feels that even though eating shellfish is an abomination (Lev.11:10), it is a lesser abomination than homosexuality. I don't agree. Can you settle this?
g) Lev.21:20 states that I may not approach the altar of God if I have a defect in my sight. I have to admit that I wear reading glasses. Does my vision have to be 20/20, or is there some wiggle room here?
h) Most of my male friends get their hair trimmed, including the hair around their temples, even though this is expressly forbidden by Lev. 19:27. How should they die?
i) I know from Lev.11:6-8 that touching the skin of a dead pig makes me unclean, but may I still play football if I wear gloves?
j) My uncle has a farm. He violates Lev.19:19 by planting two different crops in the same field, as does his wife by wearing garments made of two different kinds of thread cotton/polyester blend. He also tends to curse and blaspheme a lot. Is it really necessary that we go to all the trouble of getting the whole town together to stone them (Lev.24:10-16)? Couldn't we just burn them to death at a private family affair like we do with people who sleep with their in-laws? (Lev.20:14)
I know you have studied these things extensively, so I am confident you can help. Thank you again for reminding us that God's word is eternal and unchanging.
This looks like something many parents would impose on their children, especially if they got fed up with problems with traditional censorware.
It seems to me like they're missing a bigger potential market here. There's probably a lot of parents who would pay a few bucks a month to get an organized report of the kinds of sites their kids are visiting. This is a lot better than using an inaccurate web filter to "protect" your kids from the web. If kids know their parents are going to find out what sites they're visiting, they probably aren't going to look at sites they shouldn't.
The correct quote is:
"That word you keep using... I do not think it means what you think it means."
I don't understand the reasoning here. I understand that it's something voluntarily installed, and that no one forces it... I don't mind that. What I don't get is *why* anyone would want it. As the text led me to believe, let's pretend I'm an extremely pious who thinks that porn is the work of the devil. I never visit porn sites. So why would I want to install software to tell people this?
If people want to do this, so be it. But I really don't get the logic. I don't visit 'objectionable' sites, and have nothing to hide. But that doesn't mean that I'd voluntarily show a list of every site I've visited to people? Again, they have every right to do this if they want, but can someone please explain WHY someone would want to use this? (As a sidenote... If the 'peer pressure' aspect is really the reason... I think I'd find some new peers. I don't think people have the right to hound you constantly to prove that you're not visiting porn sites? Are your friends that distrusting? Mine wouldn't even care...?)
________________________________________________
suwain_2
Simple solution to the internet porn deal. If you don't want it don't look for it. If you see it don't click on it. C'MON PEOPLE GET IT TOGETHER!
"...but my kids!"
Your kids are eventualy going to see a picture of people fisting, if they havn't already. I say give it up.
-makoffee
You really have to wonder at the types of people who feel the need to install this software onto their computers so they can prove to their little church friends that they're not perverts.
Too funny.
Why are you letting these clowns ruin our country?
I mean .. teen pregnancies hardly EVER occour anymore, Folks don't steal, rob, or beat people anymore.
.. who was very religious, and told me once : 'Every day I am afraid that I will Sin, before I do anything, I ask myself if it will cause me to sin in the eyes of the Lord.'
.. no matter HOW far away it is.
:P) on people who are SOO damn weak willed, that they cant seem to NOT go to www.hotyoungsluts.com no matter what they try.
.. your not worthey of God .. WTF is that ??
Preists in certain religions certainly have stopped abusing small boys.
hell, maybe its just me, but the idea that you need to have other folks WATCH you to keep you from looking at pr0n should be a REAL BIG INDICATOR that you have a problem.
I once new a lady
Anyone here who rides motorcycles can tell you what happens if you stare at that rock in the middle of the road
It doesn't bother me when folks are religious. It doesn't bother me when folks have faith. It DOES bother me when organized religion PREYS (a little play on words there
My wife's cousins tithe 10% of their income to their church (and they make less than 40k combined) because their church makes everyone do it. the peer pressure there is if you are not 'holy' enough to give your tithe
It goes back to preying on the poor/underprivelaged/uneducated. Imagine if boss said "In order for you to keep your job, you need to give me 10% of your salery monthly." How quickly would *HE* be out on his ass ?
--Ne auderis delere orbem rigidum meum, non erravi pernicose!
Seriously - get some self control. Sounds like a guilt trip catholic thing (I'm a recovering christian myself - 13 years in catholic school *shudder*). You have to be comfortable with who you are. If you hate pornography, hate it for its exploitive nature and for all the people it has hurt (families via communicable diseases, "objectifying" women, etc.).
(Offtopic warning...) This illustrates exactly my beef with christianity (and probably lots of other religions) - that it's all about the intrinsically selfish and hypocritical desire to live forever in paradise. "I won't do X because I will go to hell," or "I won't surf pr0n because mom will catch me." That's akin to saying "I won't rob a person because I will go to jail." Does that make you a good person? You are still a thief, but the fear of retribution makes you appear good. That's good for society (as Marx said, religion is the opiate of the masses), but let's not fool ourselves. (Note that I am not saying all or even most religious people are bad. I have wonderful friends that are religious and we agree to disagree.)
How about forgetting all that crap and be a good person and help others. If there is a god and he/she/it is the type of god I would be willing to believe in then belief won't matter as much as living a good life. If being a christian versus a buddhist versus whatever matters to an all powerful entity then they can go screw themselves, and I'll go pack my shorts and suntan lotion now.
Yeah, this is off-topic, but I couldn't figure out what the point of this story was... I'll admit to not even R'ingTFA. It's been a while since I've had a good religion rant, so thanks for bearing with me. I'm seriously interested in hearing what other people think about my rant. Do I just not get religion? Inform me.
I'd also wonder about the morals and ethics of the watcher. Why are they doing it? What is there justification for peeking over someone's shoulder? I know I'd only do it for a friend at specific request to help overcome an internet addiction. And maybe not even then. Otherwise, no way! I'm not going to become a snitch -- that was responsible for terrible repression in Germany and Russia both pre-WW2 and since.
I'd be curious to see what 'partial moraility' looks like. It sounds like each person just makes up their own rules, based upon random criterion (since, of course, nothing is absolute). Is that how it's done?
Your monitor is staring at you.
To be fair, the original poster quoted a verse from Matthew, which is in the "new testament". Your copy of "Dear Dr. Laura" refers only to "old testament" verses. Even I know that the rules in the OT don't apply in the NT age, in fact, that's part of why "Dear Dr. Laura" was written.
Now, to present my side of this argument: Jesus, in the Sermon on the Mount, was using a number of rhetorical devices which when taken in the context of the whole speech clearly indicate, not a rigid hierarchy of right and wrong, but that what is important for humans is that they simply trust in God. Sadly, some of those statements, when deprived of both context and the nuance of delivery, appear to be some new set of even stricter rules-- the very thing Jesus was arguing against!!
I do not have a signature
especially if the report indicates how long the user spent on the site. And there needs to be a ratings system indicating the quality of the graphics and how lustful the site made the user feel.
Is it so psychologically bizzarre to think that someone might actually behave differntly in public? No. Everybody has inhabitions that keeps them from doing everything they want when they are being observed.
Do you pick your nose in public?
Do you pick your nose in private?
This is no different than someone who recognizes that they have a drinking problem asking his friends for help.
Perhaps you don't see pr0n as a vice.
Perhaps you have achieved a level of moral dissonance and self control far beyond us mere mortals.
What is equally distrubing is that these are probably the same people that think the rest of us have the same problem and must be saved from ourselves. They lobby to get laws passed because "someone must watch over us" to protect us from ourselves.
His concept is all about the individual choosing to change their own behavior. You choose to use the product. You choose who sees your log files.
The Law of Moses, i.e. every single scripture that you cited, was fulfilled with the coming of Christ. Jesus replaced the "eye for an eye" Old Testiment doctrine with the "Love thy neighbor as thyself" doctrine.
Every single one? So are you saying that burned bull no longer smells pleasing to the Lord? Have you got a cite for that?
Dudes - I think this rocks. I mean think of all the problems in the Catholic Church - Enron - etc. Accountability is just a basic ingredient for integrity. Chuck Swindoll is one of the most sincere and "real" ministers out there. He's not preachy - was a marine years ago - seems to really care about helping people. Just great to see a solution that uses friendships and a non-censorship approach. Life is short - integrity is something we all strive for.
Getting voluntarily into a Big Bro survelliance system may be a form of sadomasochism. So by default, anyone using it would be a pervert and a siner!
Living like there's no tomorrow since 1978
Chord!
Maybe if your priests jacked off to porn more often they wouldn't feel the need to rape little boys.
Or perhaps if they got married, the way God intended...
Thomas Galvin
Some religious doofuses want to show everyone they don't go to porn sites? GREAT! More porn bandwidth for me. Suckas.
How is porn destructive? Presumably you aren't talking about 'destructive to those forced into performing', since most people would grant you that's destructive and more than rape.
But viewing? How does it harm?
There are actually people who want to STOP looking at pr0n, but the temptation and availability and ease of covering your tracks is too much for them to handle. So this is an ideal solution for those people.
It happens quite often really. I would pay for it. Now granted, most people that I know that would use such a service volentarily are christians who struggle with pr0n (such as myself).
Never argue with an idiot. They will just bring you down to their level and beat you with experience.
Sure...as a voluntary form of self-nudging, it's probably great.
What happens, though, when your church decides that you should have it installed just because?
Or your very religous spouse?
Vintage computer games and RPG books available. Email me if you're interested.
Dr. Laura is Jewish. In her mind, the NT doesn't apply. Those OT verses do. So Dear Dr. Laura is valid.
Now THIS was very funny. Did you write it yourself?
Ok, I'll bite. See definition 3a here. It reads:
Uninfluenced by emotions or personal prejudices: an objective critic
These people have picked a standard. In this case, it is "Viewing pornography is not moral." They are now holding themselves to that standard regardless of the emotions or desires they may have from time to time.
I think my usage of the word works just fine.
Forget the whales - save the babies.
Fine, then why even bring her into the discussion?
I do not have a signature
>
> What a standard
What about the Discordians and the Church of the SubGenius?
It's like IEEE and ANSI. The best thing about standards is that there are so many to choose from!
Sounds like a great idea on paper, and then you get the users involved. They'll probably check each other's logs one or two times, then they'll forget about it.
Who the fsck wants to have the job of keeping tabs on your neighbor web sites? It's already bad enough in business environments... nobody wants to add another item for somebody to manage. It's about as pointless as being a jizzmopper.
Just set a policy and make do when it becomes a problem. Or install Websense or some other filter at the firewall.
--
hecubas
Hecubas
So wait a second, you are trying to say that one day the church said: "Look, nobody follows the old testament, lets re-write it in a more relaxed version" and thus, it doesnt apply? What happend to all your legacy customers that still use the old version?
We are no longer under old testament law. You only need to look at the words to understand what's going on. There are two words: "Old" and "Testament". Old means that it's something outdated. It's the old way of doing things. It's old fashioned. It means it's not the way we do things any more. The other word is testament. Testament is an old word for contract. In ancient times they didn't have papers drawn up when a deal was made; they called for people to witness the transaction so they could testify in court that it happened. They called it a testament because there were those who could tesitfy that the deal was made. Today we call that a contract. So God had a contract with people under the Old Testament. It was a govermental contract with the Jewish people. The New Testament is a personal relationship with God through Jesus Christ available to any who will believe. The Old Testament law was governmental law. Many of the laws they had are still governmental laws today. Things like murder, theft, liability, self defense, health codes etc. are all in the Old Testament. We would have a difficult time doing them today. For example: it says under their governmental law, that a person caught having an affair should be executed by the people who catch them. You'd get in big trouble for that today... something like twenty to life.
So your next question, then, is "If the Old Testament means nothing to us then why is it in the Bible?"
I'm going to confuse you now when I say that the Old Testament means as much to me as the New Testament. The New Testament says, "All those things (written in the Old Testament) were written for our edification (to help us)." The Old Testament shows us alot about the character and will of God. The New Testament has few "commands" in it. When it does it is commands to "Seek God" or to "Be worthy of your calling." The Old Testament was God telling people how to act so that they might have a life pleasing to Him. The New Testament (this new contract that God made with people) tells us how to get life so we'll act pleasing to Him. The Old Testament emphsises doing while the new emphasises being. You face up to what's true so that you become what God wants you to become so that you do what God wants you to do. The differences can be described as OT (Old Testament) was God's people (the Jews) under Law, New Testament is God's people (all true christians) under grace. The OT was about what we should do to please God, the New Testament is God pouring His goodness into our lives as we receive Him, so we can be the kind of people who are pleasing to Him in all we do.
http://www.harborside.com/~ljglazner/qot.htm
Someone I know in the future: "Hey Steve why don't you install this software so we can all monitor each other and make sure we don't sin?!"
Me: "Why don't you (^%^@($#)*#&*&#(&# my *#*#^&#$^$*&*$*$ you #*^@%#$*$(*#(&#."
From what I can gather, the objecting post to this story are one of the following:
/. community seem to think it's a good idea also gives credence to it working for at least some people.
1. Cynical that it will work
2. Believe that the guilt caused by pr0n is wrong
3. Think this could be very bad if forced on someone via peer pressure or possibly some big-brother enforced government regulation.
To the people that object based on reasoning #1, I say, that's fine, but something that's got 10,000 people signing up for 4 bucks a month must do SOMETHING for them. The very fact that so many people in the
To the people that object to the guilt brought on by pr0n, that's a matter of opinion. Vegetarians obviously are going feel guilty for eating meat. Conservative Christians are going to feel the same way about pr0n. Whatever your view is, you must allow each person the freedom to be conditioned to have that response if it is their choice.
Personally, I think the third category of objections is most legitimate. Is it possible that people will use this as a way to force something on others? Probably. But just because it can be used in an evil manner does not mean that it is evil in of itself. One computer may be used to make a virus, another to solve a traffic problem. The problem isn't the computer, it's the person who uses it. I think it's the same case here.
Because it's YAOMS--yet another objective moral standard. The pertinent question is really, why even have discussions with religious people?
I didn't write it. I think the attribution is lost in the mists of time.
Yes, some religious people and some religious organizations like churches, homeless shelters, etc... are like what you describe. But you forget that they are still people. When one believes in God (in Christianity at least), they do not become like God being incapable of doing something evil. Christianity teaches that they will know what choice is wrong and what choice is right. And I've found that to be true for myself all of the time. But Christians can still choose to sin and every last one of them does for the rest of their lives.
The majority of churches do not pressure people into anything. It's all about free will. They obviously do make suggestions of what is right and wrong. Try visiting some different churches some time with an open mind (not saying you don't have an open mind, just suggesting that you try with an open mind again). And some of the most educated people go to church. I myself plan on getting a pHD someday and I attend church. I think for myself, act on my own and thoroughly enjoy my church on Sundays and volunteering during the week.
-> Sometimes, you just gotta break free from the shackles of proprietary code.
Man, you got ripped on the moderation. Flamebait? It was on topic for the discussion, which was on topic for the article...
The overall point is that the idea that the "Bible is quite clear" is merely wishful thinking. The Bible is massively open to interpreration. EVEN if you believe that it is literally true AND written by the people it claims it was written by (both of which are questionable).
That is in fact what they're saying. God used to be evil, but now he's good, see, he straightens his act up around halfway through. Before that it was slaughter these people, slaughter those people, but now he's nice. He likes you now that he got his son killed. And as long as you recognize that, he won't torture you for eternity.
Isn't he so full of love and wonderfulness? Just like Hitler was.
News flash...not all marriages are between Christians, and even Christians disagree on what god says. He's a notoriously unreliable source, and clearly says contradicting things to different people.
Maybe I'm missing something, but I think this is a great idea, and I'm surprised it hasn't been done before. I constantly hear people complain about filters, especially about how they do not filter as reasonably as a human would. Well, this solves that problem. We're always telling parents that they need to look after their children and what they are watching, and this is a perfect tool to do that. Its other use, using it to make yourself accountable as opposed to children, seems a little weird, but I can see where it could be useful. And besides, it's opt-in, so what's the big problem? Sounds like a great product. Not that I'll be signing up for it anytime soon. . . .
Then Dad accidentally types "lashdot" instead of "slashdot" and has to hard-reset to get rid of the slew of pornographic pop-up windows that result from his typo.
Son now has something to laugh about while he surfs for porn on his buddy's old laptop or at the public library.
why don't they just change everything to .porn; that way people with kids could simply block .porn ..... and whoever owns a site now would simply change it to .porn .... sex.com owner would get sex.porn etc ....
.org, .tv, why not .porn?
we have
Pablo Piccaso was never called an asshole. Not like you.
I get an email about Brother Jeb's activities. There's a site on there that I don't know. (Persian kittens? I didn't know he liked cats.) I visit it, and lo and behold, the next time someone looks at my list, I'm a big ol' dirty pervert! This sounds like ripe ground for a goats.ex prank. Just sayin'.
"My wife's cousins tithe 10% of their income to their church (and they make less than 40k combined) because their church makes everyone do it. the peer pressure there is if you are not 'holy' enough to give your tithe .. your not worthey of God .. WTF is that ??"
Well then that church has much bigger doctrine problems than just peer pressure (the term itself is missused in this article).
When a professing christian church pressures people to do anything that they say you need to do in order to become holy enough for God, then they don't believe in God by that very statement. Tell them to read about the thing called "GRACE".
Honestly, that just pisses me off when professing churches warp things to fit their financial needs. People logically come away thinking the members of that sect are stupid for believing that. And they are! Contrary statements like that just stand out as false.
-end rant-
robi
> I'd be curious to see what 'partial moraility' looks like. It sounds like each person just makes up their own rules, based upon random criterion (since, of course, nothing is absolute). Is that how it's done?
No, that's called "religion".
Stor
"Yeah well there's a lot of stuff that should be, but isn't"
I didn't realize George W. Bush was intending to flood the world in this conflict...oops sorry - I forgot about the greenhouse stuff.
Hmmmmmmm, I'm not generally a stickler about things I don't care much about, but you started it and were wrong.
"You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means" - The Princess Bride
"Share your knowledge. It's a way to achieve immortality." -- Dalai Lama
"...about this, "blind leading the blind". Basically I get to pick my judge!
Ok, then what is your opinion vis-a-vis AA, NA, or GA? Isn't that peer review/peer accountability on the same order?
For those of you who think this is a bad idea, this software is not for you. But, there are many men who want to stop looking at porn for whatever reason (religious or not) and this could help them tremendously. What's wrong with that? It is up to the user to decide to use the software and to pick an accountability partner. Where is big brother? Out
i will be a goog peer2peer bookmark sharing tool!
\m/
What about that stuff in the Koran or the book of Morman? Isn't that God's laws too?
http://www.windmeadow.com/
I don't know whether to laugh or cry at that......
The problem isn't P2P sw, it is the users making illegal use of it.
The problem isn't gun owners, it is the hoods that murder the 7-11 worker to get the cash using guns.
The problem isn't Democracy, it is the politicians that abuse the system, take bribes (soft money), pass biased legislation.
The problem isn't booze, it is getting drunk and driving.
The problem isn't sex, it is addiction to sex/porn with 15 year old drug addicted sex slaves in china.
This community points out so many of these contradictions it makes you wonder if anybody else gets it.
robi
I feel bad for the simpletons who have nothing better to do but fight a war like trying to kill pr0n, that they can never win. get a hobby
Look at it this way.
As a parent, I allow my children to use the computer. I do, however, place it in the house where there is a lot of traffic and I can keep an eye on what they are doing without interrupting them.
This is a Good Thing(TM). Accountability, in general, is a good thing.
You may not agree with the application of this technology, but why disparage it here? If you feel pornography is a good thing then you can enjoy it yourself.
I, however, feel that pornography has many bad consequences. I know this from personal experience. Who are you to disparage my personal experience, my morals, convictions, values and beliefs? Pornography, just like gambling, drinking, drugs, computer hardware, computer games, MMORPGs, etc can be addictive. These addictions can change you and your life significantly. If you like those changes, or it doesn't change you, or you don't notice the change, then good for you. But don't hate the technology or the people who use it for themselves.
-Adam
An idea is a precious and fragile thing. Don't hate ideas. Hate people.
If either of you can support your claims, please do so. I'm sure many here at /. would find the details interesting.
The funniest part of that Wired article for me was the last sentence:
A Google search on the terms "accountability," "Internet" and "pornography" brought up dozens of links, mostly to religious sites.
OK, yeah? And?
I mean, its one thing for the reporter to use Google to do a little research, but it's funny (and a bit shocking) to see one A) admit it publicly, and B) to lazily avoid actually doing the reporter's job of synthesizing the resulting material into something usefully informative for the reader.
--LP
Man, that's flat out evil. That's as evil as almost anything in the bible.
Why try to get rid of it, when it's leading us one step closer to world peace?! Check it out. Not a porn site, mind you.
sounds as if it's possibly time to rename the Old Testament the "Older Testament" so we can call the New Testament the "Old Testament", since it's no longer in effect either.
-pyrrho
You are going to be so disappointed when you grow up. You have none of the freedoms you've listed. Talk behind your back? How about going after your wife, crackhead? You can put that line about being among the 20-30 percent that make it on the dung heap as well. Your children will commit suicide/do drugs/have sex/have FORCED sex as often as others. I speak from my experience, and others. You have the freedom to know that the people who put themselves above you will screw up, and will hurt you.
You're full of crap, bud. Your strawman drunkard pervert is a very, very small minority. Keep trying.
As for not giving you a neurosis, I'd say it's given you a bit of an attitude, and a mind that's more closed than Fort Knox.
Regarding not hiding who you are...you haven't been paying attention to the problems with the clergy lately.
The overall point is that the idea that the "Bible is quite clear" is merely wishful thinking. The Bible is massively open to interpreration.
With all due respect, this beleive is pretty much an urban legend. There are some long, impressive looking lists on the Internet floating around that have lots of supposed contradictions, but they tend to be quite shallow and created by people with a huge axe to grind. It is at least something worth investigating for yourself.
You might feel differently in eternity.
-You may license this sig for only $6.99.
As for the last war that you guys started, I believe it was the war of 1812, when you guys invaded Canada.
What ever happened do doing something for yourself by yourself? Let me ask you this. How would you feel about yourself if you quit smoking on your own? You just laid off the cigs a bit and then quit when you knew you had a handle on things. I bet you'd feel like a million bucks and be a lot more likely to try to improve yourself in the future! Now, how would you feel if you quit because someone was watching you over your shoulder? Good, but not as good. They made you quit; you didn't do it on your own. The smoking is gone, but the root of the problem is not solved or improved.
I may have an attitude about this, but concerning most self improvement, if you have too much help, it defeats the whole purpose. Grow a spine you limp-ass noodle! If you can't stop looking at a little pr0n on your own, you need to go to some classes on self control, some therapy, or talk some things out with a good friend. Now that is getting some needed help. The pr0n isn't the problem. The fact that you're a pussy is the problem. If you can't stop you have a problem that is not going to be solved by having someone watch you over your shoulder.
This software will be used to help people? I doubt it. It will be used to further Joe's issues. After all, why grow the balls to quit when you can be a pussy and have someone else make you? And when they are gone? What are you going to do? Start looking at the pr0n. You haven't learned a god-damned thing.
This is what is wrong with parents these days. Don't clean up their mess for them. Fucking smack them upside the head when they deserve it. It doesn't hurt them. It helps them.
Now, don't get me wrong. Heroin and coke addics can't just grow bigger balls. The addiction is bigger than their balls alone will ever be. That's when a person needs help. And yes, I'll apologize to the 100 or so people in the world who have a real pr0n addiction -- sorry.
Gah, the point is this. You claim that this will be used to help people. The people it will be used to "help" are actually getting fucked up worse. So I guess that whole "help" thing is out. Now what happens when this get abused? Jane: Joe! You better install that! We want you to quit right? Joe: (thinks: not really. I'm fine with it. We didn't have any problems until you found out.. what's the big deal? It doesn't change anything. I've been beating it to some pr0n ever since we've been dating!) Yeah honey! (thinks: I love you so much I'll give it up for you if i have to.. but damn... this stupid program! fuck you program, things would have been fine!)
Ok, ok, that's a little crazy... but it could happen. This program isn't wrong. It shouldn't be illeagal or anything. I know it's volitary... Just I think it will only be abused.
I am a viral sig. Please help me spread.
my *shudder* alama mater. A private Christian university. We had required chapel days, where the entire student body was required to meet for a religious seminar. Don't ask. Anyway, one day a member of the student body gets up and gives a rambling testimonial about how his roommate caught him jerking it to porn. the guy felt so 'dirty' and 'sinful' that he felt it necessary to confess it in front of a couple thousand of his peers. It was the most inane, embarassing display of public humiliation I've ever seen. What supporters of this opt-in idea are missing is the rest of the picture. This boy was made to feel dirty. Sinful. For something completely normal. You think he just invented the guilt on his own? No, it was instilled in him by a sexually repressed religion. I realize that this program would work nicely in libraries or schools. Those are places to learn, not self love. Ethics and morality mean more than just following along... modern Christianity needs to stop pretending it is a good subsitiute for therapy and common sense. Men and women will only be made to continue to feel worthless for what SHOULD BE safe, sane, and healthy. Sex addicts? Sure they exist, addicts need to be taught moderation... soemthing they didn't 'get' the first time around.
The "Dear Dr. Laura" post wasn't original (as I'm sure you've guessed) - it's a response to an episode of her show in which she quoted Leviticus as the reason homosexuality is wrong. Whether it's relevant to this discussion (due to the Old Testament/New Testament differences; most Christians ignore the "law" portions of the OT) is left up to the reader.
Ok, admitedly I didn't read the second half of your post... it started to bore me, but the first part reminded me of a story I thought was funny... hehe...
my mother wanted to by my little 8 year old brother some shin pads for soccer from Dick's Sporting Goods (a big chain around here... not sure how far it spreads). She wasn't thinking anything bad at all when she innocently went to http://www.dicks.com to look for shin pads... The gay p0rn flowed freely to her unsuspecting eyes. Luckily myself and my little brother weren't around, so we missed this all, but from what I'm told, there seemed a limitless amount of new pop ups every time she closed a window, so she ended up rebooting. What fun online shopping can be!
~Jon~
by the way, I'm not just a little kid, like I'm sure lots of you are thinking, I'm a professional sys admin, done with college and all... I just happen to have a young brother. =D
This space for rent, inquire within.
> To me the problem is it seems kinda creepy that you'd need the threat of shame from your friends or family to not do something you consider morally abhorent.
It's no surprise that so many sects with tight moral constraints and/or inflexible doctrine are based on strong personal associations between their adherents, including (but not limited to) regular assemblies of the group's members.
What I wonder is whether that kind of social engineering was designed in by those groups' founders, or whether it is simply the outcome of "survival of the fittest" - i.e., whether the groups that didn't practice social engineering were more likely to disintegrate over the centuries.
Sheesh, evil *and* a jerk. -- Jade
I was specifically referring to groups that use the Bible (English/Old English/Greek/Hebrew translations, Word of God, Holy Scripture, the Logos, Old/New Testament, etc) as either the sole basis for thier moral ruleset or as part of that basis (i.e. throw in Book of Mormon, Apocrypha, Dead Sea Scrolls or something else for additional rules and good times).
;-)
The Principia Discordia and teachings of Bob are in a class by themselves
Just to show you all I don't play with myself. I've been telling all folks for years and they don't believe me. This will prove it.
I suggest you read Slashdot
This sounds like an honest question, so I will answer it honestly.
;) brain activity goes nuts. Also note that the more porn you see, the "harder" porn you need to get that same response... Sound familiar? So for a non-trivial number of people, Porn is a effectively a drug that they abuse. Just like alcohol, or pot, or other moderatly powerful drugs (drugs that are psychologically addictive and not necessarily chemically addictive).
:) ).
Accountability rocks. The trick is to find commited like minded friends that genuinely care about you, and you invest in each others lives.
I can tell them "I want to spend more time with my children, I know that I am missing out on a huge part of life and will regret it when they grow up, but I am really struggling with making the time to spend time with them, and need your help doing it"
These people, if they really are good accountability partners, will ask you every week how you are doing. They will probe and try to understand the real reasons you might be struggling with it, help you track your progress, give you outside perspectives, give you suggestions based on their own experience that would help, lots of real help to making real progress on important issues. They will refer you to professional help if it looks like that is necessary, or just help remind you of what you know is important when you don't feel like you have the energy to do it.
So thats the accountability component of it. Ask any recovering alchoholic. God / AA based programs have like an 8 times higher success rates then non God non accountable programs. These things really work.
The reason people might consider porn bad is a different question I will address seperately...
First of all, it is not a big stretch to assume it requires the exploitation of women. It is generally legal and it is a free country where people can do stupid things to themselves whenever they want, so it *would* be a stretch to say it should be illegal. But there are a lot of legal things that are distasteful, that people may decide they don't want to support it or be a part of. That does not mean they aren't tempted by it or don't want it, it means they believe it does more damage then good (to themselves and others) in the long run.
Porn is something that gives you momentary and intense stimulation of a pleasure center... it hits like a drug, just monitor the body responses of somebody that is not sensitized to it when they see it. Heart rate goes through the roof, skin flushes, things swell
(footnote... that gives me a laugh, I remember from high school health class circa 1983 that they described cocaine as "non addictive" because it lacked some of the chemical ramifications of heroin and morphene... What total and utter bullsh*t... just look at the effect crack (concentrated and cheap cocaine) has had on the inner cities, and you tell me it is not addictive)....
Anyway, another reason porn is destructive is obvious if you think about it. Imagine you are having sex with your favorite supermodel. It would be great, right? OK, now imagine you are having sex with someone who is totally unattractive to you, both in looks, in personality, they smell bad, they say rude things, they insult you and abuse you and disrespect you in every way. The physical sensations are not a lot different between the two scenarios, but there is a HUGE difference in the way your brain translates those sensations to actual perceptions of pleasure.
So there is a HUGE psychological component to the degree to which you enjoy sex. And pornography (as well as premarital, or non monogamous sex) wreaks havoc with that whole mechanisim, it really pollutes it and messes up the whole system. When I was in college, I could not find a person that would agree with me. Now, at the age of 37, I can't find a person that would disagree with me. Ignore me at your peril.
And as for this particular product, it has it's place. I could bypass it in about a minute, but even among the technical friends I have, not many could unless I told them a couple tricks.
And internet porn is a bigger problem then other porn. It is in my house, waiting for me at 2 in the morning when I had a fight with my wife, or a terrible day at work, or one too many beers. The AA guys have a great acronym... HALT (hungry angry lonely tired). If you are any two of these things, your risk of abuse of a self destructive behaviour goes through the roof! I don't have to get dressed, go out in the car, and go somewhere and buy it and bring it back... it is totally anonymous, and there is effectively NO obstacle between me and internet porn. Maybe 20 keystrokes, thats it.
I doubt anyone will read this, but there is an honest answer to the question.
If black, Jews, or Asians were treated with the same bigotry and contempt that Christians are treated here on Slashdot....... But I told myself I was not going to go there... where is that (bite my toungue emoticon
Mathematically impossible requirements are technically not against policy.
Actually most of the bible doesn't even indicate who it was written by. The "who" part is often extra biblical tradition. Worse yet it sometimes conflicts with the written bible where these books came from.
You mean besides that multiple wives thing? Oh, wait. The Mormons who wanted the benefits of statehood decided that He really didn't mean it after all.
I see even classic Slashdot is now pretty much unusable on dial up anymore.
Actually Jesus was setting out a rigid hierarchy of right in wrong. So rigid that t is impossible for us to achieve - these are God's standards and without being perfect, we can't hope to achieve them. the point is that we can't trust in ourselves for salvation - we have to trust in God, ask forgiveness from him. As a loving God, he offers forgiveness to everyone. Mother Teressa needs it as much as Hitler did and God would be just as willing to forgive Hitler as her. Or me. Or you.
The problem is that we can't uphold the law. We can't. CS Lewis recommends to anyone who seriously wants to be good, to try to do it all the time. Try to be good 100% of the time. Not 99.999% of the time. 100% of the time. Commit yourself to it for 6 weeks. You'll find, I think, that you can't do it. I certainly couldn't.
So what are we to do about the fact that we can't uphold the law, and yet are required to be judged by it? In the history of the world, there has been only one person who upheld the law. That person was Jesus Christ. He upheld the law fully. He, unlike anyone else in the history of the world, can claim his own righteousness. Yet what happened? He was sentanced to an execution, and not just any execution. An excruciatingly painful one. A crucifixion.
Why? Because the penalty for sin, for being unable to uphold the law, is death. That's what the law itself says. So you and I and everyone deserves death, since you and I and everyone has sinned.
That's where Christ comes in. The penalty for sin is death. And that penalty must be paid. Christ's death was the paid penalty for our sins. He lived a sinless life and yet paid the worst kind of sinners penalty imagineable. Because it was a perfect sacrifice (i.e. because Christ was sinless) his death is the paid penalty for all sinners throughout all history. His life will be the life which is judged by the law. But in order to be under the judgement of his life, you must align yourself with him. If you don't, you will be judged by your own life's measurement against the law.
There's much more to this than my over simplified summary. The book of Romans has much to say about it. But it's probably hard to understand out of the context of the entire scripture. I'd recommend, if you're interested, to read "Mere Christianity" by CS Lewis.
Key to financial independence: Spend less than you earn. Save and invest the difference. Do it for a long time.
With Jesus' death and resurrection in the OT, people are no longer bound by the Law and the Jews are no longer set aside as the keepers of God's Law. Everyone needs, can ask for and receive forgiveness. That is what achieves salvation, not following the Law. The Law should be followed because it is good, however we won't follow it perfectly, therefore it is asking for forgiveness that saves, rather than following the Law.
And their "morality" is objective, not influenced by emotions or personal predjudices? I wonder...
You can only drink 30 or 40 glasses of beer a day, no matter how rich you are.
-- Colonel Adolphus Busch
...what the hell are they going to look at while they masterbate?
Just like Windows NT/OT, we don't support OT anymore because it sucks and is outdated.
Why not just have your browsing history sent straight to the chruch office = then compile everyone's weekly data - and sell it for 2 dollars on Sunday. The funds generated by this public decleration of piety can be used to send your youth group to Mexico so they can convert some poor mexican childern, teach them some english, and learn how blessed they are to not live in Mexico.
Oh ya, Baptists, I hope you realize this is a joke.
"Just Say No"
Anything based on morals is inherently subjective.
I think the /. crowd is being fairly consistent with their morality.
/. posting on Christianity.
/. reader could benefit from this service. You can't tell me you can't bypass this simple of a filter in 2 seconds on a home machine (i.e. one you have administrative access to and physical access to). I'm not sure it would even work for the semi-computer literate because the bypasses are so easy much less the computer literate.
1) They are approving of the fact that this is voluntery and commercial rather than mandatory and government
2) They are concerned about its possible uses on kids, employees, etc...
3) They think the issue it addresses is stupid; but that people are entitled to do stupid and silly things.
I'm not sure where you see inconsistency with Libertarian philosophy.
In general this totally consistent with most
1) They strongly support freedom of religion.
2) They don't like the way Christians raise their kids and push for restrictive laws in society.
3) They think the religion is nonsense.
I would expect this crowd to at least be capable of supporting an individual's right to overcome adversity they face.
Finally on this comment. I don't see how any
Hmm.. No, the point is simply to show that quoting from Bible doesn't make it right or automatically justified. We have something called Law that is different from Religion, and for a good reason they are separated. (Ofcourse, our legal system isn't perfect, but that's a flaw in implementation)
This is just as bad as peer pressure to get into drugs.
It prioritizes mass harrassment over reason.It turns the conflict (much of it natural at a certain age) internally on a person with the added weight of others who are contemptible in choosing to subject others under such pressure because:
1. It is dishones; the "right to look your accuser in the face" is taken away. Anyone looking their accusers in the face will be shamed. Any honest (willing to accept convincing evidence) dialogue is silenced and utterly impossible.
2. It is authority by majority, no accountability of the accusers is taken.
3. It is pressure based on raging fears and mass hysteria. 'Nuff said.
Welcome to Salem, MA 1692.
The message on the other side of this sig is false.
Right, and next time I run a red-light I'm going to pull over and call the police.
Go here for teh [sic] funny.
I'm not saying that the initial definition or acceptance of their morality isn't influenced by emotions or personal predjudices, I'm saying that whatever standard they have chosen can be treated objectively at that point, regardless of how they feel from then on.
Or I could just be blowing lots of hot smoke.... :-)
Forget the whales - save the babies.
Interesting . . . this topic is helping to enter many people into my friend / foe list.
Thanks for the topic!
robi
The presumption here is that porn is sinful and evil, and will send you to HELL. By watching over your shoulder and disapproving of any porn site you visit, your loved ones are making sure you don't stray from the path of righteousness.
Proxies, redirectors and other services such as anonymizer.com will surely foil this system, because a visit to www.persiankitty.com via anonymizer will simply show up as anonymizer.com in the logs.
Therefore...proxies and redirectors are tools of the devil! BURN THEM! BURN THEM ALL!!!
God is the One that decides the parameters of the contract...
And you would presume to speak for God?
"Remember, there never were pineapple-almond cookies here."
I read a lot of comment here... It's terrific !
Say that you believe in a god or not, it's your problem, please keep it for you.
But how can you accept that a religion, created by others humans, can say what you have to do with your life ! ! !
Please, do what you want with your life and don't try to do it with life of other people !
Believe what you want, think what you want (but accept all the consequences). But never let other people choose for you !
Bible, Coran are just book and only book ! You don't have to do thing because it's in a book ! You can't know what really happen for Jesus, Mohamed or Richard Stallman... Believe what you want about this. But be a little more septical !
Please !
Porn is a personnal matter. If you want porn, pay for it ! If you don't want it, don't pay for it ! But let people choosing what they want.
You think that porn is bad ? What is bad, what is good ? Good and bad it's just a matter of education.. Think it ! If I say that porn is good because a "sexual deviant" will not rape a girl since he has what he wants at home with internet ?
it's just an example. Nothing is really black, nothing is really white.
I say always : "Believe what you want but respect the others. We don't have to thing the same to be friends".
To all who cite bible or coran or what-you-want by heart... Never forget it's a book ! And you have a much better tool : your brain ! Use it. so few people really use it...
Ploum.net.
I think it is interesting to note that there is a reaction here on Slashdot, and in society in general to the use of the words "moral" and "objective" in the same sentence. It's almost as reflexive as being tapped on the knee. Obviously, the choice of morality would be subjective, but is it so hard to see that the accountability of such morality can be objective?
For instance, if I say "Lying is immoral". You can make the argument that saying that is "subjective". That's fine. But if I say "I am the President of the United States", can you objectively determine whether or not I have broken the stated morality of "lying is immoral"? Yes, that is something you can objectively determine.
So do you see know why your comment is incorrect? You can, in fact, use the idea of morality and objectivity together. Not in the way you were thinking, but in the way I described above.
Forget the whales - save the babies.
So the crappy, low quality sites will get filtered out as your friends chastise you... leaving only the optimum viewing experience for your guilty pleasure. hmmmm
my alma matter *spits on ground* We had to go to sex ed seminars where former students (now in what appeared to be sexless marriages) told us to "save" ourselves. I mean we were 20 year olds for Christ's sake! Instead of practical, realistic discussion we were exhorted never to get "horizontal" or go on non group dates. It just seemed so pathetic and stupid. And judging by my peer's pregnancy rates woefully ineffective. I think schemes like the one shown here will be just about as effective.
Sorry about the rant. I guess I was just commiserating with you.
It is not enough to succeed, others must fail. - Gore Vidal
ssh proxy /etc/samba/
/var/log/squid/ :wq
su -
cd
vi smb.conf
[shame]
comment =
path =
read only = Yes
guest ok = Yes
Now to export it to our web server....
Xix.
"Everything is adjustable, provided you have the right tools"
Bush doesn't have anything that can manage orbital....
"This Joe hasn't been to a porn site for 3 months! Wonder if he has a fucking dick at all!!!"
In early colonial America, townsfolk would often decide that their friends needed a helping hand, and they had their own helping devices. They were called stocks and pillories. The point of the punishment was not to inflict pain or leave a lasting mark (though they were quite uncomfortable and sometimes resulted in death), but to thoroughly humiliate the unlawful one in front of his community, who naturally were only interested in helping him see the error of his ways.
How precisely will it help anyone to have his friends and neighbors looking over his shoulder and monitoring the websites he visits? If he feels inclined to visit a pornographic website, why should he be chastised for doing so? Is there something inherently wrong with pornographic material?
Far from friends helping friends, the site looks to me like friends using each other to reinforce the dogmatic, injurious principles of their myopic system of belief. The religion doesn't need to expend resources on oversight of its subjects, when they are willing to police themselves so efficiently.
But, hey, that's just my opinion. Feel free to disagree as vocally as you want, and to believe anything you want. It's a free country after all, and any knots you tie in your psyche, or ulcers you burn into your stomach, whilst worrying about what's acceptable behavior in the eyes of God, are your own damned fault.
Well, he did specifically say that he was not here to change a single word of the law.
My Blog
- Robert Heinlein, 1907-1988
Nerd: Derogatory term typically directed at anybody with a lower Slashdot ID than you.
My understanding, and I may be wrong, is that a two struggling addicts are never paired together. In fact, if people are drinking/whatever, they are kicked OUT of the program to prevent that from influencing another member. There is a significant amount of peer-peer support because addicts can understand and predict patterns of behavior...but the overall structure is a group...not just that peer-peer relationship.
The equivalent would be if once a week everyone got together and compared porn logs and anyone who frequented porn sites was kicked out of the group.
- JoeShmoe
.
-- I wonder which will go down in history as the bigger failure: the War on Drugs or the War on Filesharing
A healthy marriage is one in which the people involved mutually agree on what they expect of each other and follow through.
Two people lying together because they BOTH want to is the most healthy natural thing in the world. A very strong argument can be made that the Christian ideals you hold lead to insecure women with no confidence in themselves and an inability to enjoy sex; and men whose frustrations and feelings of guilt turn into violence and ultimately rape.
Christianity is the cause of the problems, not the solution.
Porn is a problem...for people who are opposed to it. If someone is opposed to it then what use is something like this to them when they're not going to be looking at it anyway?
It seems to me that you'll just have a big group of people who will all be watching each other not look at porn. The thing is, they wouldn't be looking at porn in the first place. Oh well, if this will occupy their time and keep them out of everyone else's business then perhaps in the end it will be a positive thing. The more that sexually repressed people and groups are distracted and preoccupied, the happier the rest of the world will be.
I think it is truly sad that anyone even CARES about porn. It is irrelevant to anyone who isn't a pervert, whether you're talking about the perverts who are obsessed with looking at it, or the ones who are obsessed with repressing their own sexual desires (if only they would do it right and stop breeding...). For the rest of us porn is an occasionally interesting distraction and nothing more. I've seen my share of porn and the vast majority of it is completely pointless. I get more out of the Sports Illustrated Swimsuit Issue and a Victoria's Secret catalog than I've ever gotten out of porn. Porn is for adolescent males and males who never grew past adolesence. Even so, that doesn't make it a social problem or something in need of remedy. Unless of course you mean that it needs to be better than it is.
This scheme does nothing but prove that technology gives people new ways to express their stupidity.
Lee
Muslim community leaders warn of backlash from tomorrow morning's terrorist attack.
I sort of already covered this in a previous reply but I thought I should elaborate...
The view you express that what sinful to one person but not another is sort of the problem. There are very few people, I have found, that can tolerate something they view as wrong/sinful in a group setting. Alcohol may not be a problem for you...but you have to keep it to yourself. Otherwise, you drinking alcohol could influence another person.
That's my point...who are these fair and impartial observers with no vested interest that you can choose to review your personal browsing habits? Your wife? I don't think any husband would want his wife to know how much he thinks about sex, she might feel she's inferior or not meeting his needs. Your pastor? What if HE thinks you are obsessed with violence but you believe it's not a big deal because it's fake?
If you are open and honest then you are basically confronting someone with your viewing habits and guaranteeing they will eventually disagree/confront you about them, or possibly gossip behind your back. While "don't ask, don't tell" hardly seems and ideal approach, if I don't know you are a racist, I could probably be your co-worker or casual aquaintance. The moment I become aware of that aspect of your personality, the veil of ignorance is gone and I either have to confront it, or you will assume I condone it.
I think the very reason the Army went with the don't ask, don't tell policy is because they knew if they made it public it would end up dividing the armed forces into gay/straight divisions. I don't think any religious group wants to see themselves split...there's already been some 6000 different splits in what was once a single monotheistic religion...how many more can it take!
- JoeShmoe
.
-- I wonder which will go down in history as the bigger failure: the War on Drugs or the War on Filesharing
Read it and decide for yourself. If it looks like a tangled mess of contrary statements, then don't believe it.
If it holds water, then believe it.
If you can't tell, or are confused (as many philosophy writings tend to do) then ask what someone else thinks about it.
robi
monorail. Monorail. MONORAIL. What you need is a Monorail!
Comparing it to Windows will be a moot point, since El Dorado is going to have a 40% larger code base than XP.
Actually, it's more like:
"You keep using dhat whord. I do no think eet means what you think eet means."
Hey, if you're going to be pedantic, it better be phonetic. *chuckle*
--Fesh
Kill -9 'em all, let root@localhost sort 'em out.
"I never asked for the anal probe." Bonus points if you know the origin of the quote... :-)
I don't consider people who don't actually practice a religion to be members of it. Sorry, but christianity is a belief, not a mystical hidden marker placed upon someone at being baptised. Your definition is confusing, and misleading. The purpose of words is to communicate, and your definition is confusing to the majority of the populace. I submit that your definition is therefore wrong.
.
Secondly, I actually never said that because the majority believes it, it's morally acceptable. Where do you see me saying that? I do happen to believe that porn is morally acceptable, but not because there's some majority backing me up.
I don't know what kind of semantic argument you're trying to make with morality vs values. Your main argument seems to be "morals don't change, because that's what morals are". My only guess is you believe morals are something handed down from god, and therefore can't change. That's all well and good for you, you can certainly believe that, but all us non-believers define the word differently, and recognize that what people have believed as right and wrong HAS changed through the centuries.
AccountKiller
It's good to be a Buddhist.
If someone is passing you on the right, you are an asshole for driving in the wrong lane.
Mods, I think that was meant to be insightful, not funny....
Gee.... this story is sort of a dupe.
$$$$$exyGal does this already ^_~
The best weapon of a dictatorship is secrecy, but the best weapon of a democracy should be the weapon of openness.
I think all the parties involved (including your boyfriend) would be happier if I did not call your gender into question.
*smacks head into wall*
D/\ Gooberguy
Karma: Meh (Mostly from meh.)
these people are the same people who we could be better off without. GO OUT! get drunk! have fun with your life! waste your time! keep chatting on slashdot! keep ircing and icqing your life away! oh you victims you people without willpower, you weaklings! we are ready to live without you, and we are no longer waiting for you to keep up with us. Enjoy the last moments of your life because otherwise you'll bring us all down. we do not need and should not help these people. modern medicine and hospitals are useful for the strong - they can make use of technology to heal people who want to be healed - but those who want just to be sick throughout their days, and waste their time gambling, looking at pornograpy, shooting up, or drinking - these people don't want to be helped, if they wanted to stop whatever it is that they are doing, they would stop. cold turkey. but obviously they don't truly want to stop. so instead of willpower they manifest themselves in decedance? LET THEM DECAY! spare not your time worrying about them. make yourself strong. you are better off without their influence.
GENERATION 26: The first time you see this, copy it into your sig on any forum and add 1 to the generation.
"Where's your father?"
"Upstairs, masturbating to gay porn again."
The Democratic Party: We've been pussies since 1968!
Not cool. I clicked on that :/
Please inform everyone if you're going to be linking to that kind of stuff in the future. KTHXBYE
(assuming you are Orthodox Jewish from your use of "G-d")
When you say "a faith," do you mean Christianity as a whole, or just a personal, home-brewed (corrupted) Christian faith? You would be correct in saying that some people have a kind of "faith in Jesus" that allows them to commit any sin they want. But that is not in keeping with the calling of Messiah or the New Testament scripture.
Christianity doesn't allow sin any more than Judaism does. Both have to make allowances for sin, because the evil inclination is in the Adamic nature of every person. If Judaism didn't "allow" sin, you'd be up the creek without a paddle. Of course, that's not the case. See what David prayed in Tehillim/Psalms 86:5.
Admittedly, there has been a major imbalance in much of Christendom regarding the amount of teaching devoted to proclaiming grace compared to that imploring obedience. It is terrible that many supposed followers of Messiah do abuse His grace by making no effort to repent of sin.
Your comment should not have been moderated flamebait. Your post should be an alarm bell to Christians that we should continually examine our actions, attitudes, relationships, and every aspect of our lives in light of how Christ taught us to live. As an outsider of the church, you can only comment on what you see, and what you see is a lot of unrighteous living and phony religion.
I think that the emphasis on grace and forgiveness is more prevalent in Christianity, because Messiah Yeshua personally commissioned His talmidim to reach out to the goyim/gentiles who, unlike Jews, had (or still have) no tradition of thinking of themselves as part of HaShem's family. It is necessary to keep harping on the fact that one's sin and former disassociation with God will not prevent that person from being loved by Him or from having His Holy Spirit live within him/her.
Sorry if I came off as 'anti-Catholic' in my post. (I'm Catholic myself.) I do agree about their treatment on Slashdot, but am somewhat concerned that you seem to consider me one of them.
My question wasn't really "What's wrong with porn," but rather "Why would anyone want to share information on where they go (even if they don't go anywhere they shouldn't) with others?" (You answered both pretty convincingly.)
Thanks for the reply. I'm not about to install it myself, but I can see the logic now.
________________________________________________
suwain_2
the accountability of such morality can be objective
That is certainly true, but was not your original statement. Instead you claimed that the standard itself was objective, not the accountability of it. For reference, your original words:
It is an objective standard for them to live by
Perhaps this is just a case of your words not communicating your meaning properly, but it's easy to see why everyone is arguing with you.
how about popup ads? false links? and the html spam that one gets in their inbox? there are many ways of going to a pr0n site without going to a pr0n site, because they all come to you instead.
and sharing your entire log is like giving up your house so a friend can look for condoms.
As an employer, I don't filter or spy, and I probably won't do this either. But, for employers that are tempted, isn't this a great alternative? If you're married, a report of your web activities will be mailed to your spouse. No filters that will screw up and keep out legitimate sites; no employer spyware.
The only problem (as identified by my wife): "What if you wanted to buy me a present online?"
..We could TLDs to seperate the porn.. i.e. .XXX or something, from everything else.. and .KIDS for G rated material. Isn't this what the IANA is for anyway? I personally don't have any moral problem with forcing the porn industry to use specific TLDs, that way filtering is totally trivial, but isn't censored.
That's kind of off topic anyway because I'm not sure exactly what the point of this article is. On the one hand we have the church guilt machine, on the other hand we have porn addicts. Do either of these groups (prudish christians.. hello, that's _so_ victorian era, can anyone say 'sexual revolution happened in the '60s, we're not scared of naked bodies any more' -- or porn addicts) actually install filter software to protect _themselves_? That's kind of mind bogling. Those people have some serious self denile issues.
Wow, the State has moderation powers on slashdot ;)
If Google really cared they would fix Android Chrome to reflow text, instead of discriminating
There are people with addictions to pornography. For most of us, it's just the occasional urge, the same way you might buy a lottery ticket or go to Vegas. But for some people, it is a serious psychological problem much like gambling addiction. This could be used as a tool to help those people. On the other hand, I share your abhorrence of its stated purpose.
Sounds like you need a lesson in moral relativism. Of course morals change. Morals in the Old Testament era were different than they are today. Ditto the New Testament. Morals aren't necessarily set by popularity, but they can be, and in fact have been to some extent in many western nations. Religious leaders may set morals. The morals of conservative religious groups, whether Islam, Judaism, or Christian, are very different from the morals in more mainstream religious groups. And in fact, since one's membership in those groups is, at least in part, by one's own choice, there's an element of popularity there too. If no-one wanted to be an Orthodox Jew, for example, there just wouldn't be any. Simple as that.
If you believe morals have some absolute basis, you have to say where that comes from. God? Whose conception of god? The Pope? Saddam Hussein? Jesse Jackson? Joseph Smith? L. Ron Hubbard? The Bible? Which book? Which passages? How do you know which passages to accept, and which to ignore?
Certainly, within each religion, there are well-defined answers to most of these questions, but they don't all agree with each other. What's considered perfectly acceptable by a Christian westerner is a moral crime against Allah in some Islamic states. For that matter, this happens within different branches of the same religion.
So what was that about morality by popularity again? Face it: you could almost say there is no other morality than popular morality. Even if there is a god, gods, or a big turtle holding the Earth up, you cannot know what to believe in, except by faith. But everyone's faith is different. And the morality of our societies is determined by the popular faiths.
Their privacy policy:
We will never share personal information about you or your surfing habits unless our withholding of this information would violate a specific request by a local, state, or federal authority.
So anybody with a governmental letterhead can get your info.
How they do it:
The only requirement is that the network administrator open the firewall port 41974, for outbound connections.
You'd think they could just send a mail message once in a while, but no...
Their terms and conditions:
NetAccountability may, in its sole discretion, change, modify, add or remove portions of the NetAccountability application and the services available with respect to the NetAccountability application or this license at any time without notice.
Coming soon, adware, spyware, what?
I appreciate you pointing that out to me. What I meant by "objective standard" was that it was a standard that could be objectively met. But I see how they could have read it differently.
Thanks.
Forget the whales - save the babies.
Oh, it's not conclusive, but it certainly bears further investigation, and, more importantly, casts doubt on claims that porn is, in and of itself, a major cause of violence against women.
--grendel drago
Laws do not persuade just because they threaten. --Seneca
When I was thirteen, I stood in front of my congregation and swore an oath renouncing the ways of the Devil, which of course includes drugs, booze, and sex. I did it because all my friends were doing it. It was the culmination of years of religious training.
It took me nearly a decade to fully recover, but now I can enjoy pr0n nightly and feel no guilt whatsoever. Free your minds, folks! Human nature is not sin! Join me in the unholy sacrament:
autopr0n
PicHunter
Sito Smax
Bijin's "homu"
Okay, this clarified some disconnect thoughts in my own head, and for that I thank you, but... I really wonder about this porn being the exploitation of women. Girl gets paid $500 to be filmed engaged in sex. Guy later pays $50 to see said act. Exactly who is exploiting whom?
"The Scarlet Letter" Gee Jim, you keep checking out the p0rn sites, we're going to have to bitch-slap ya... Of course, what idiot is going to use a monitored computer.
Wow. You're a shameless Karma whore, and a gigantic fucking plagiarist.
That's awesome, dude.
thats being ignored in this discussion so far (at least I haven't seen it in any of the highly moderated posts) and that is the difference between "guilt" and "accountability". Guilt or shame is something that most Christians I know would discourage, because it is self-dustructive. There's no use in obsessing over your sin. Even so, if we are honest with ourselves, we realise that each of us ar flawed (i.e. we have room for improvement, we have "fallen short" of the perfect mark). And that is perfectly reasonable because we are all human after all, but do we kick back and say, "well that's life" or do we strive for something better?
Accountability is not about guilt. Its almost the opposite, as a matter of fact, because guilt makes people hide -- accountability is about finding someone you can trust who will be your confident so you don't have to hide anymore. You can have someone, a real live human -- better if its someone you know well, not just a box or a screen or a program with some mysterious listener bihind -- who can share your struggle and help encourage to strive for that something better.
It is very painful for me to read some of these posts that say, "if you don't like it then just stop" because its just not that easy. And then they say, well if you can't stop then just accept that its ok. To which I must say for extended periods I pretty much did accept it as ok and the result was a life-wasting habit that ate up to 7 hours of each day (almost as bad as slashdot). To which they reply, "well you have to learn self-control buddy". But ask every person I know, self-control is not one of my major flaws in any other area. And porn was never a problem for me until I crossed that threshold a year ago. I can only say, from experience mind you -- not because some preacher said so, or because my mammy made a face when billy used a word when I was five -- that for me this is something I want to rid myself of, that this is not something I can do myself, and that methods like this help immensly if they are done right. Accountability is about building positive relationships and that, I think, is the intent of this program.
I work at a high school as a sys admin. Anyway, we occasionally have kids who arent too smart, dont disable proxy logging, and then decide to go surfing the net for pr0n. The most effective tool we have ever had for eliminating porn use is something very simple and maybe partially legal. We find the log, call the student end and give them two options. They can either be suspended for a week for intentionally looking at pornography, or they can call their mother and tell them what they were looking at. They must call them, tell them they were doing bad stuff, then list off the sites that they visited and were poking around. Yeah, it really works. Really really well.
Well said Brother Taldo! But Brother Bob said it better...
[Oh God said to Abraham, "Kill me a son"
Abe says, "Man, you must be puttin' me on"
God say, "No." Abe say, "What?"
God say, "You can do what you want Abe, but
The next time you see me comin' you better run"
Well Abe says, "Where do you want this killin' done?"
God says, "Out on Highway 61."]
-Bob Dylan 'Highway 61 revisited'
i know this may sound metaphysical, but what is "trying to be good?" is it the utilitarian bounds of promoting overall hapiness of humanity or more kantian based as promoting good will? or could it even be more virtue theroy based on the individual?
morality is impossible to define. no one can be judged on if they are 100% moral because the lines of morality are skewed inbetween viewpoints. would christ lie if he knew that it would save the life of a friend? isn't lying morally wrong? what if he could have killed one innocent child to save 1000? isn't murder a non-moral act accross all cultures?
how can we judge christ (and humanity) as moral beings if we cannot define morality?
In order to keep married couples from performing sinful sexual acts, all members of our church are now required to have sex in the pastor's office under his supervision.
Tapes will be made available for memebers of the flock to review as a system of check and balances.
Under our constitutional form of government it seems what really defines a free society is choice and freedom of expression. Even unpopular ideas, porno and "hate speech" must be allowed.
If ya don't like it, don't do it or look at it.
That's your choice.
Please don't try to limit my choice in reading material or what I'm allowed to watch on video or the net. That's unpatriotic and unacceptable to most Americans.
I thing what ol' Norm said on the topic was on the mark"
"If we don't believe in freedom of expression for people we despise, we don't believe in it at all."
- Noam Chomsky
best regards,
buck
i know this may sound metaphysical, but what is "trying to be good?"
We've already covered that, it's not eating shellfish, it's not cutting the hair at the sides of your head, it's stoning to death blasphemers etc. As mjh was saying, that's the law that governs how good we are in the eyes of his god, but nobody can live up to it (whether because it's obviously silly or because the person has a conscience, you're bound to get caught out on one law or another). To make up for this, his god had a son who got crucified, which makes up for you wearing clothes made from different types of thread PROVIDED that you believe that it does. Understand now?
To summarise the summary of the summary: people are a problem. ~ h2g2
it's here
--My sig is bigger than your sig--
A moral system that glorifies a sociopathic, genocidal tyrant that's all too willing to use orbital bombardment on two bronze age cities, saving only the family that was willing to grovel to him sufficiently.... and that is also willing to drown an entire PLANET simply because the inhabitants of said planet weren't grovelling to him sufficiently... is beneath my contempt.
;-) Especially if it teaches those ignorant humans a lesson... Call it vengeance of God, or karma, it doesn't matter.
He's the creator. He can do anything He wants.
I wouldn't read the bible to get accurate information about it though..
http://www.debunkingskeptics.com/
Whitelist, blacklist and greylist for your internet experience?
:-)
The first two lists I get but is the third for Greys? Sheez... mixing porn, religion, science, race and UFO's in one short post. That's Slashdot for you
WHY THE HELL WOULD SOMEONE WANT TO DO THAT!?!?!?!!!???!?! Shit... next thing you know these puritanical freaks are going to start going after the beer in my fridge, and the smokes on my desk. What's next... the " improper " thoughts in my head?
"...[treat] every man after his desert, and who should 'scape whipping?"
ROTFL. Why should people stop looking at porn anyway?
You talk as if porn would be something bad, something that harms you. Someone who does not want to look at porn, simply won't do it. A person who senses that (s)he has problems with porn, maybe something like an addiction, should visit a psychatrist.
Kosi
Please someone mod the parent up, very "Insightful"!
Kosi
1/ Lots of us browse useful sites with lots of intersesting and generally work related stuff on.
2/ People do browse embarassing, unacceptable (within work) things.
By making the whole web traffic into a visible list (perhaps ordered on popularity or other criteria) people get access to lots of interesting sites at the same time as self censorship to avoid embarassment or innapropriate use.
It's a good approach in my opinion.
burp!
Why should you stop looking at porn? It may seem like a strange thing to you, but consider this: every time you look at porn you are objectifying the participants and gratifying your lust at the expense of the person's humanity. Basically, when you look at porn you are looking at it for your own gratification and you aren't considering the other person at all.
I believe that porn is quite damaging - both to the party being objectified and to the party doing the objectifying.
I also believe that porn isn't real, it's just a poor imitation of intimacy and love. You will never get any intimacy and you endanger your intimacy with those you love if you are a regular viewer of pornography.
Christians beleive that pornography is wrong. Jesus states that "Your eye is the lamp of your body. When your eyes are good, your whole body also is full of light. But when they are bad, your body also is full of darkness. See to it, then, that the light within you is not darkness" in Luke 11:33-35. Many Christians wish to obey Jesus and so they try to not look at images that cause them to be full of darkness. Pornography is one of those things.
Also, many Christians find that they are hooked on pornography (and I suspect that it's not just Christians too!). They might find this tool very useful - in fact many Christians are already in groups where they voluntarily become accountable to group members. This software would help assist in their accountability.
For the record, I'm a Christian, and also at the place I am living at the moment we've installed a caching proxy that filters on various things. I don't administer it, it's too tempting.
I am not a Christian. However, I have read the bible several times and in several different langauges.
I know you have these list of 10 things you shall not do. (10 commandments if you will, but that's a rough translation of the hebrew)
Now, my delimma is this. Looking at any image that is a representation of anything that is in earth or heaven would be forbidden if you took the time to read up on your faith.
Think about it. You can't have artificial images of any kind according to the 10 commandments. You cannot watch telivision (think of it as a graven-image-o-matic, spewing 30 graven images per second)...
Plus there is nothing forbidding the objectizing of women. In fact in the bible it is encouraged. The hebrew notion of adultry is that of the violation of property. In order to commit adultry you have to have sex with someone else's wife. Now, if these women you objectize and use aren't married, it's simply fornication. The only thing the bible has to say about that is that when you knock the woman up, you pay for the child.
I am the penguin that codes in the night.
We cannot reach a consensus about what morality is. However, there is an objective truth of morality, about which our beliefs may be correct or incorrect.
The post to which you reply is right that we cannot be 100% well behaved. Whether virute should be calculated by biblical rules, Kantian categorical imperative, or maximum utility, our actions cannot be perfect. However, we can exercise Kant's 'good will' (sincere intention to do good things) all of the time.
I think that Kant's 'good will' is among the few correct parts of his moral philosophy, and it applies to other accounts of duty as well as his own (utilitarians could value the mere intention to maximize utility, or Jews, Christians and Muslims could value the mere intention to follow their respective holy books).
First of all, I'd like to make clear, that "porn" in this discussion means "pictures of consenting adults having sex".
:)
every time you look at porn you are objectifying the participants and gratifying your lust at the expense of the person's humanity
The first part is correct, as you objectify constantly (even when you're having fun with your wife, but not only when it comes to sexuality), but I can't understand how someone's species should change just because of being pictured while having sex.
I believe that porn is quite damaging - both to the party being objectified and to the party doing the objectifying.
Although I won't say that it's impossible that porn can inflict damage, it's very very unlikely that it will do. And, please, define what "damage" you are talking about here.
I also believe that porn isn't real, it's just a poor imitation of intimacy and love.
Love? We're talking about sex, and sex has not neccessarily something to do with love. They go together often, but that's all.
You will never get any intimacy and you endanger your intimacy with those you love if you are a regular viewer of pornography.
Why and how?
Christians beleive that pornography is wrong.
What is wrong in picturing the most beautiful thing one or more consentig adults can do together?
btw, who's administering your censoring proxy? Your local reverend, strong in his faith?
Kosi
"Love? We're talking about sex, and sex has not neccessarily something to do with love. They go together often, but that's all."
:)"
Here we disagree. I beleive that marital love and sex go together. I beleive that God created man and woman to be in perfect unity together.
I base this on Genesis 2:20-24:
"But for Adam no suitable helper was found. So the Lord God caused the man to fall into a deep sleep; and while he was sleeping, he took one of the man's ribs and closed up the place with flesh. Then the Lord God made a woman from the rib he had taken out of the man, and he brought her to the man.
The man said,
"This is now bone of my bones,
and flesh of my flesh;
she shall be called 'woman,'
for she was taken out of man."
For this reason a man will leave his father and mother and be united to his wife, and they will become one flesh."
"Why and how?"
Because monogamy is the only way, intimacy requires trust and love requires lack of self-centeredness. I beleive that pornography does not allow for either of these things.
"What is wrong in picturing the most beautiful thing one or more consentig adults can do together?"
Nothing! in the context of marriage sex is a beautiful thing. When it is taken outside of marriage I beleive it is corrupt.
"btw, who's administering your censoring proxy? Your local reverend, strong in his faith?
My flatmate, because I asked him to.
Here we disagree. I beleive that marital love and sex go together.
That doesn't make the other statement untrue. Sex in itself has very little to do with love. If you were to take all of the people who have sex in a given 24 hour people and divide them into two groups - one who was expressing genuine love and one where they were gratifying themselves - you'd find the 'love' group significantly smaller than the gratification group even among married couples.
--
As a matter of fact, I am a lawyer. But I play an actor on TV.
You make a very good point. What I probably should have stated was that I beleive that sex was made to be enjoyed within the context of a loving relationship between husband and wife.
It's good to see some constructive criticism on slashdot!
Don't you think that morals could be based on objective truth? if not, why not?
Are you really interested in the answers or do you have a large axe to grind?
Well, a great book on the "Big Picture" of the Old Testament in made by Graham Goldsworthy. It's called Gospel and Kingdom and it goes through what he beleives the OT is all about. I can highly recommend this book.
Here we disagree. I beleive that marital love and sex go together.
:)
... :)
Sex will of course be part of marital love, but the other way round it's not mandatory. I'd never marry without having sex in the relationship, but I'd never refrain from having sex just because I'm not married with the girl.
I beleive that God created man and woman to be in perfect unity together.
So why does reality then proof that the unity is not that perfect?
Because monogamy is the only way, intimacy requires trust and love requires lack of self-centeredness.
The second part of the sentence is perfectly ok with me, but reality proofes again here that the first part is wrong.
When it is taken outside of marriage I beleive it is corrupt.
Aehm, you are aware that marriage is a thing created by men for various reasons, one of them to ensure their "female benefices"? It exists much longer than whole christianity.
And: why do you think it's corrupt? Just because of some ancient writings of humankind, in which you can hardly find the original sense, as it was modified, manipulated and mistranslated many times over the years?
Just think of this: If god really created the universe and humankind, he created humankind with a desire for sex. So, neither a human can be held responsible for having this desire, nor can it be something "bad", "dirty" or "immoral", as *god* created it!
Religion was created by men, in times where knowledge of nature was small, and people explained things they did not understand with magic and myths (think of the old nature cults). These explanations were interwoven with rules for a better living together. Then, as knowledge grew, soemthing had to replace this magical and mythical universe, so the cults were replaced by the religions (just think how many of the christian holidays are in fact old pagan celebrations). These were focusing mainly now on giving rules how to live together, and dealing with the still not solved "problems" like sexuality and mortality. So, the rules you can find in the bible/quran/thora ran are rules made by humans from some thousand years ago. They contain rules being impossible to follow like "thou shalt not covet your neighbor's wife". Hey, I can't control being attracted to some girl, I can only control how I act on the subject.
btw: Clever people quickly institutionalized these religion thing to gather might and wealth, and that's how the first christian church was born. But that would lead too far now
To bring this to and end: Religion should be treated as what it is: ancient guidelines for the real (ancient!) life, written by ancient people, often with good intentions, but horribly mutilated over the time. One should check every single rule or guideline if it makes sense in todays world.
A good example is the ban of pork and other meat in the muslim world. In the times these rules were developed, there were no fridges, and temperature is high in these regions. So pork (and others) becomes inedible very fast, many people died from disease or food poisoning. That's the reason for the ban of pork for muslims, and therefore it should be checked for what reason a common-sensed human should still comply to it.
Kosi
For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.
Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven." - Matthew 5:17-19, The Bible, King James version.
Nine verses later we get a nice on topic bit:
"But I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart.
And if thy right eye offend thee, pluck it out, and cast it from thee: for it is profitable for thee that one of thy members should perish, and not that thy whole body should be cast into hell." - Matthew 5:28-29, The Bible, King James version.
NetAccountability works. I picked a buddy - downloaded the app on a couple machines (no additional fee). My wife and I talked about this - she can see my reports as well. (accountability partners are free) Good stuff. I talked with the ministry - they have 24/7 counseling and a vision for really helping protect families. Very family-oriented. Customer support is good. No linux or MAC version... I'll share more as I experience it... Noah
If his faith was pure, he would know that he was always being watched, and wouldn't need his friends to see what he was browsing on the Internet.
His software would help, however, in treating a true addiction to internet Porn.
Best Buy can have you arrested
Perhaps instead of struggling to give up your pr0n habit you should instead be struggling to give up your habit of blindly accepting superstitious beliefs. I suggest Carl Sagan's The Demon-Haunted World: Science as a Candle in the Dark as a starting point. Apply a little critical thinking to your situation and determine where the flaw lies.
Why is it that the proponents of "one nation under God" are so eager to get rid of "liberty and justice for all"?
It's good to see some constructive criticism on slashdot!
What was I thinkin'? Must've forgotten where I was....
--
As a matter of fact, I am a lawyer. But I play an actor on TV.
Well, for example, here's The Jewish People and their Sacred Scriptures in the Christian Bible", from the Vatican. I can dig up other similar things from other religions, if you're interested.
You mentioned the way it's been for millenia. There's a reasonable historic overview in Christianity in its relation to Judaism, which also talks about the Islamic point of view. Islam considers the Jewish and Christian prophets to be true prophets, and recognizes the high moral qualities of Christians. It's amazingly small-minded to simply close yourself off to a thousand-year history of tolerance and understanding between the deepest thinkers and framers of the faiths of the major religions, and simply say "everyone is wrong but me and my religion". You place yourself squarely amongst the ignorant majority by doing so.
take the gloves off - its just leather that got a nickname for the way it looked.
I'll stop with the messages now. I hope you learn something from the references I've given.
Yes and no. Yes I believe this because someone told me to believe it. But not the someone you think. I believe this because I believe in God and I believe that God told me to trust his word, the Bible.
Now we can argue all day about whether or not its reasonable for me to believe in God, or if I'm just halucinating the existance of God. I'm certainly not going to try and prove to you that he exists. But my inability to prove this to you doesn't imply that I don't believe it. There are a hundred things that I can't prove to you that I still believe. I can't prove to you that I got up at 7:15am. But my experiences (looking at the clock) demand that I believe it even though I can't prove it to you.
That's how it is with God. I believe that he exists even though I can't prove it to you. My experiences with him simply compell me to believe in him regardless of whether or not I can prove it. And those same experiences compell me to believe him when he says to trust in his word. Yes, it was penned by men, but God says that they did a good job of conveying exactly what he wanted to say, and I trust him.
Of course, I can't prove this to you. I don't intend to try. I only want to answer your question of why I believe in the truth of the Bible.
Key to financial independence: Spend less than you earn. Save and invest the difference. Do it for a long time.
I'm pretty familiar with the text, but I don't recall seeing that passage. Can you substantiate your claim for me?
The guy you were talking to misquoted (I think). I believe what he meant to say was that if a man sleeps with an umarried woman and then refuses to marry her he must pay her dowry price (ie, the price her father would get from marrying her off).
If a man seduces a virgin who is not pledged to be married and sleeps with her, he must pay the bride-price, and she shall be his wife. If her father absolutely refuses to give her to him, he must still pay the bride-price for virgins.
Exodus 22:15-17 (KJV)
I'd suggest you don't use Slashdot as your only news source, or you will suffer permanent brain damage.
It's easy to see that this story is goign to make for more religious debate. Let me make something clear. (And these are my beliefs and not neccesarily yours and thats ok)
The purpose of Christian life is to bring glory to God.
I know no Christians who'd disagree with me on that...even some of the more fringe groups...Without quoting verses on this and that that seem to specifically address this issue, does viewing porn bring glory to God? not if it's done lustily--if it's done out of appreciation for the female body or whatever (that's a fine line, and one i'd rather not approach) then that could be different, but lust=bad (according to the Bible which I believe in and you may not neccesarily and that's ok). Generally a litmus test is whether you're masturbating in conjunction with the porn. If you are, it's probably (though not neccesarily) lust oriented.
This isn't to keep your kids off of porn. This is for people who desire to stop viewing it and need help--This is a filter for your own computer. It's not a bad thing to help people who want to develop self control develop it.
I'm not suggesting that y'all change your lives to think like me. For the record there was no indoctrination in my case--My parents do not believe what I do. I was not brought up in faith, but found it later (how I believe it should be found--one appreciates where they are more when they had to get there on their own) after THINKING OBJECTIVELY...something many Christians regrettably do not know how to do.
Okay. back to the pissing match. I hate it when that happens.
Brian
Has it every occurred to you that God might be a committee?
He is. Ever hear of the Trinity?
Why the heck wasn't this moderated as Funny? I was LMAO!
Towards the Singularity.
I think you're probably right that morality is impossible to define. But that's mostly because we expect to find a fine line between right and wrong, and we don't. Still even if that's true, there are some things that are clearly right and some things that are clearly wrong. And, interestinly enough, we find little disagreement to these things in just about every civilization on the planet.
For example, no one contends, so far as I'm aware, that wantonly killing someone is right. There are circumstances around which we allow for taking another persons life (e.g. self defense) but no one would say that randomly taking someone's life without provocation is a good thing. Similarly, no one would contend that lieing is good thing. There are circumstances which might make a lie understandable (e.g. a known child molestor asks the location of your children). But randomly lieing for no reason is generally frowned upon by pretty much everyone.
Now, given that there are some things that we clearly know are wrong. How effective are you at avoiding behaviors that you clearly know are wrong. Have you ever lied just to see if you could get away with it? Have you lied to protect yourself from the consequence of something you know you did, or to pan the responsibility on someone else? Have you ever bit some unsuspecting person's head off because of a bad day at work? Have you ever been lazy and not done work that you know should have been done, but you just didn't feel like it? Put another way, have you ever truly felt sorry for something you did prompting you to apologize to someone?
There are tons of things that pretty much everyone agrees are wrong. Have you done any of them? If so, then you've lived a life that doesn't meet even your own standards.
The question is this: what are you going to do about it? And a completely reasonable answer is: nothing. That answer works just fine right up until you bump into God. You may never bump into God, you may have already done so. But when it happens, it becomes immediately apparent that doing nothing about your unfufilled morality simply won't suffice. I suspect that you already have a sense of this if you've ever said to yourself "I want to live a better life than I'm leading." That's God, in a very subtle way, bumping into you. But still you may not have ever encountered what I'm talking about.
In one sense, I hope that never happens to you. I hope that you get to live blissfully ignorant of how poorly you're doing at meeting your own standards. I hope you get to live your life content and happy. But in another sense, I know that contentment and happiness are impossible if you don't ever become fully aware of your failings. You will spend your entire life trying to justify yourself to others who are trying to justify themselves. You'll spend your entire life bickering about whether or not your life is worthwhile to others who only care about their own lives. You'll spend your entire life stuck in the middle of the worst kind of backstabbing politics that you can imagine. And I do NOT wish this upon you. (For a great picture of this read "The Great Divorce" by CS Lewis.)
So in a real sense, I hope (and pray) that you will be blessed to know your own failings sooner than later. Because that's when you can find the path to getting them fixed. And THEN you can start to see real happiness and real contentment.
This is my challenge to you: forget about the blurry morality. Focus entirely on the obvious right and wrongs. Write down a list of things that are obviously wrong. Write down a list of things that you think are wrong, even if it's not necessarily obvious. Write down a list of things that you think are right. And write down a list of things that are obviously right. Now go out for the next 6 weeks and do the things that are right, and avoid the things that are wrong. No lies. No laziness. No killing. (Hopefully the last one is easy for you.) Pursue kindness, generosity, and and compassion. Try to be perfect based on these standards for 6 weeks and see how you do.
Key to financial independence: Spend less than you earn. Save and invest the difference. Do it for a long time.
Yes, the Bible says that we were made in the image of God. Did you ever think that the passage was actually talking about us being made to look similar to God? Why would he do that? I don't know, you'll have to ask Him! Why would he give us free will to choose to not choose His ways? I can't be sure about that either, but I would have to assume that it is because he wants us to choose Him. He wants us to have a relationship with Him because we love Him, not because He makes us.
why do you think that his rules run completly opposite to our basic nature?
I wasn't always that way. He didn't always have rules for us to follow (with the exception of not being allowed to eat from ONE tree. We (humans) couldn't even follow one rule. He gave Adam and Eve the free will to choose to follow God. They chose to do the ONE thing God told them not to, hence bringing humans death (and several other consequences including God's Law).
If God thinks sex is so bad
I must have accidentally torn those pages out of my Bible. Can you please quote to me where it states that God thinks sex is bad? Or were you speaking on something of which you do not know about? The only time sex is referred to in a bad way are:
Outside of marriage
When sex is referred to between people of the same sex(please don't flame, if you want to discuss this one more, email me)
/. with our discussion. You are welcome to email me at the email address I linked to previously.
why do you think that his rules run completly opposite to our basic nature?
Refer to the statement about freewill...
Perhaps instead of struggling to give up your pr0n habit you should instead be struggling to give up your habit of blindly accepting superstitious beliefs.
Now I have not gone attacking your beliefs, have I? These are the set of morals that I subscribe to. I am not asking you to fully convert your thinking to mine. I am merely answering someone's question as to who would use this. (Ok, so the actual question was who would think it would work... short answer anyone who goes through the same struggle I have outlined)
If you wish to discuss my religion, I suggest we do not flood
Never argue with an idiot. They will just bring you down to their level and beat you with experience.
Knoppix doesn't write anything to the harddrive so there is nothing to sniff.
As for writing encrypted, you could just mount an encrypted filesystem on your harddrive there is a zillion ways to do this for example
The "partial morality" concept could be (speculation) the belief that there is a moral level of right and wrong, but that level is different for each person.
Or it could be that partial morality acknowledges the absolute, while discounting it is "not for them."
It is to grasp the concept of partial morality, when in science there is nothing but absolutes. There is e=mc2 except on Thursdays, or when you feel like it does. Everything obeys absolute laws with many exceptions based also on other laws. But laws none the less.
robi
Eh.... callate, no hablo alemano, tonto. ;)
"arbitrary and artificial belief system collides with the reality of human nature"
Ignoring the trolling for the time being...
I think you misunderstand what the poster further up meant, and what is meant by most religious people when they say they feel they have a problem with sexual topics. As for Christianity, I think you will be hard pressed to find a Christian who believes that "God thinks sex is so bad". In fact most people will likely tell you that from their experiences as a Christian, both in reading scripture and engaging in fellowship and discussion with others that God designed sex to be something to be enjoyed. God designed sex to be something to be shared between two people who value each other and want to share their feelings for each other with each other.
Where the problems lie is in the abuse of this enjoyment. Just as someone can have a good taste for well made foods and enjoy eating such foods, one can also be a glutton. They can enjoy eating fine foods and experience the good feelings involved with tasting and eating the food yet refrain from gorging on foods and practically lusting for more and more. But if they indulge themselves beyond a safe limit, this behaviour can descend to the point of practically worshipping the food and living your life with only the purpose of finding more ways of getting and eating that food. At this point there would be a problem.
The same applies to sex. Finding another person that you have such great feelings for that you want to share the enjoyment of sex that God has given humans with is great, and most likely encouraged. God does not want people to live their lives constantly in pain and agony or living every day denying who they are or what they feel, God just wants people to use the gifts/abilities/etc that have been given to people in a meaningful way. Taking the enjoyment of sex and running wild with it, sleeping with different people all the time every day/week/weekend is not using sex in a meaningful way. This is what some people have problems with and what most Christians may mean when they indicate they have problems with sexual issues. They don't want to look pr0n all the time, they just don't have someone who they have deep enough feelings for to share the enjoyment of sex with yet. Or if a couple is already married, they may be running into problems where they feel like they can't share the enjoyment of sex with each other right now, but they want to share the enjoyment of sex with each other. Or perhaps one side of a marriage may be experiencing medical problems while the other still feels deeply for them and wants to share the enjoyment of sex with them.
The issue is not as blind as you make it out to be, and basing your characterization of religion as "blindly accepting superstitious beliefs" on the way humans act as "human nature" is ridiculous. I think if you really believe your argument is valid you will want to read much more scripture relating to the topic you are arguing, otherwise you sound quite absurd.
Sorry... included a mailto link but it didn't appear... my email is treebeardtheent6@hotmail.com
Never argue with an idiot. They will just bring you down to their level and beat you with experience.
On a tangent: Why do you write "J-sus" as you do "G-d"? To a Christian, it looks like you're giving equal reverence to Jesus and God, and thus, implying belief in the Tri-Unity of God. I assume it has to do with the command not to speak the names of other people's gods.
I appreciate your efforts to bring Jews and Chr-stians together
I'm just trying to do my part to undo 1,700 years of Greek and Vatican confusion, ignorance, and hostility that has separated us. We were meant to be one in the Olive Tree.
though your use of Hebrew terminology for J-sus is disturbing
To me, the church's use of Greek terminology for Yeshua is disturbing. Alas, the dominance of Jesus and the relative obscurity of Yeshua in the Gentile world obligates me to usually use the former term.
Like it or not, Jesus of Natzeret was Hebrew. He was a Jew of the Galil and taught Torah as a s'mikeh rabbi. His Jewish mother surely didn't give Him a pagan name! Jesus comes from the Greek Iêsous, which was a poor attempt by 4th century Greeks at pronouncing Yeshua'.
Why in the world would HaShem give specific instructions to Miryam to call the Mashiach "Jesus"?! Saving people from sins is no more reason for calling someone Iêsous (Jesus) than Jimmy or Miguel. Since "salvation is from the Jews" (Yochanan/John 4:22), HaShem forbid that Israel's Mashiach should be given a Greek goyish name!The truth is: He was not named Jesus. The Savior was named Yeshua' (Y'shua'), or Y'hoshua', which is a contraction of YHVH and yoshia ("he will save"), resulting in the meaning "YHVH saves." Only now, using Jesus' authentic Hebraic name, does Matt. 1:21 make sense. The purpose of the Messiah was to save us from our sins, and that's exactly what He did. Yeshua is also the masculine form of yeshu'ah, which means "salvation."
Now I'll explain the interchangeable use of Christ and Messiah, in case you were disturbed by that, too. Christ comes from the Greek christos, which has exactly the same literal meaning as mashiach. Mashiach was transliterated into Greek as messias and came into English as messiah. All these terms mean the same thing. Some will argue that "Christ" has an anti-Semitic connotation, but that's in the eye of the beholder and is a matter I'll leave for a later discussion.
(I am not affiliated in any way with cvnt.net)
In case a duplicate post in a deep thread is not visible, there is a similar software developed called Covenant Eyes that loggs all sites and then ranks them. That way you or your accountability partner, can see some sites which they may not determine as high ranking, but you and your partner know to be high ranking. This is in contrast to the NetAccountability software with is at their discretion to determine (with your input).
This sw also keeps time stamps to show cumulative time spent at a site. So this could be used for general internet addiction (mostly to http only, but could be applied to other protocols).
Also of note is the fact that the SW cannot be un installed unless a emailed code is used. That isn't to say that you have to get permission from anyone to un install the app. It is an automated system that just send out the code. What it does is log when the code was sent out and how long until the app was re-installed.
Nothing prevents you from using the internet in any way. Just like accountability is supposed to be.
robi