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Eleventy What?
TheFr00n asks: "I recently managed to teach my ten year old son the hexadecimal number system, but he shot me back a question that has me stumped. How does one pronounce hex, after the first iteration? In decimal, we have nice words like 'fifty' and 'sixteen'. Is there an official way of pronouncing a hexadecimal number like CF9? 'See hundred and effty-nine'? (which is totally wrong anyway because a hundred is 64 in hexidecimal) Any thoughts?"
Won't just "Cee Eff Nine" work?
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Just saying the phonetic equivalents of the letters, and the numbers as usual?, as in "see-eff-nine"
DEADBEEF always works for me but there are some who would consider it BADC0DE... :)
There was a node on E2 about this, but I couldn't find it after searching for a few minutes. Anyone remember the title?
when this day is over.
/me waits, watches the clock and clicks reload
If there was an actual need to speak these numbers,
we'd have some slick as chit way to pronounce them.
Necessity is the MUTHA of invention. Most people go
around talking in base ten. Most people have no
need at all for anything but base ten. Go figure
it's what we have words for.
For every annoying gentoo user, are three even more annoying anti-gentoo crybabies. Take Yosh from #Gimp for example.
Well, if it represented a color (#c0f090), I'd call it light green.
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slashdot is evil
"CF"
"CF9"
"CF9 with Jack and Jill"
"Now F is tired"
"CF sleep..."
"69" comments are automatically modded redundant and posters will be assumed to have the mental age of an eggplant.
This is, unfortunatly, a point that has been drilled into me by my Discrete Math profs.
All non decimal systems pronounce the digits individally.
E.g. 10 in base 2 is not "ten" but "one zero"
And 734 in octal is "seven, three, four. Not seven thirty four, or variations on that theme.
Hope this helps.
I recently managed to teach my ten year old son the hexadecimal number system
Oh, he'll never get picked on.
Why don't you kick around a fucking soccer ball or something.
Err, are not the names we give numbers independant of any notational system? i.e
The number we have given the name two and is written as "2" in decimal, in binary is written 10, but it's still called two, just the notation changed. In hexadecimal, the number we call sixteen is written 10, but it's still called sixteen.
Of course if you want say a number in a specific notation you'll need to not only spell it out but also state the system so as to avoid ambiguity ("the number `one-zero' in binary notation") as using the number's name implies the use of the decimal notation.
If you ask somebody to write down some numbers, and you read them out as "one, two, three, four", the subject should be perfectly able to use the binary notational system to write them down as "01, 10, 11, 100", they've recorded the numbers you spake correctly.
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I like it. Now I can write a satirical political novel about civil liberties lost through digital surveilance and call it '19A4'.
Finally something I know something about. "One, two, three, four, five, six, seven, eight, nine, able, baker, Charlie, dog, easy, fox, one-zero. One-one, one-two, one-three, one-four, one-five, one-six, one-seven, one-eight, one-nine, one-able, one-baker, one-Charlie, one-dog, one-easy, one-fox, two-zero. Two-one, two-two, two-three..." Three digit numbers likewise: "One-zero-nine, one-zero-able, one-zero-baker,..., nine-fox-fox, able-zero-zero."
Andy Rooney, for example, expounds on topics just as mundane and trivial as this one, every Sunday on 3C Minutes.
"Charlie Foxtrot nine" of course.
and you're right, there is no current answer.
What needs to be done is to invent words that mean each of these symbols. When you say A in hex it is not the alphabet A, it's a totally different concept and needs a different word to express it.
The best way would be to invent and standardize a set of words for speaking numbers/about numbers in base 16. Because, really, 10 would be pronounced "sixteen" which makes no sense. Base16(16) should be pronounced "16" and mean base10(22).
It's a culture/language thing, you see. In order to have it make sane sense you need to think of numbers in base 16, not 10.
I have, of course, come up with my own words for each of these A-F numbers, with simple rules for how to pronounce combinations like 1CF anf D7B and so on. I'd post them, but I've mislaid the paper I wrote them on. And I think that illustrates my point: In order to remember/use these things properly, we'd have to think in another base. And that's just too impractical to be likely to happen.
I want my Cowboyneal
is that each one is 2 syllables. Hence, it's easy to partition them off in a noisy environment without wondering if you're hearing 1 or 2 digits.
THIS THING CAN TURN ON A DIME, MACROSSZERO STYLE ALSO FUCK BETA, ~NYORON
Well, I don't know how to solve the problem of "hundred". But the digits can have names (and not just the letter names, which have the problem that they're hard to tell apart and A sounds like 8).
On Everything2, there's the node Names for digits higher than 9. The names for the digits - I have no idea who created them - are "dek" for A, "el" for B, "zen" for C, "tris" for D, "cat" for E, and "kink" for F.
Win dain a lotica, en vai tu ri silota
In section 4.1 of The Art of Computer Programming, Donald Knuth describes:
Maybe you should get that issue of that journal and give it a try.
Sunlit World Scheme. Weird and different.
Twenty is a number. 20 decimal represents that number. 20 hex does not. It represents a different number.
But the 2 and the 0 in 20H are still a two and a zero, so saying "two-zero hex" (where "hex" is optional if understood) is quite correct, while "twenty" is not.
"Those who have never entered upon scientific pursuits know not a tithe of the poetry by which they are surrounded."
159 is formally "one hundred fifty nine," not "one hundred and fifty nine."
"And" is for decimal places, as in 159.7 = one hundred fifty nine and seven tenths.
I was really inspired by this question. It's a wonderful mix of mathematics and linguistics. Because a quick post to Slashdot couldn't cover it in enough detail, I wrote up some thoughts I had on the subject, which you can find here. Also included is information on how Americans and Europeans differ in their transliteration of base-ten numbers.
Here's an excerpt:
How does one transliterate numbers of arbitrary bases? For example the number "562" is transliterated as "five hundred and sixty two" but how would one transliterate the hex number "0xDEADBEEF"? The text below attempts to answer that question using two methods. The first is a rigorous and technically accurate method but is difficult to use. The second is technically less rigorous but is simple to use
Michael.
Linux : Mac
I do get what you're saying, but consider that the spoken form assumes base ten - hence its terminology and interations of ten.
This all comes of not having enough digits to begin with. If we could just have evolved with eight fingers on each hand ...
"By Grabthar's Hammer, what a savings."
This seems so obvious now that you say it, but I've never pronounced them using the phonetic codes. And, yes, I do get into a lot of confusing situations because of misunderstandings! And non-tech types always look at me funny when I say "SEE-THOUSAND" for C000.
FYI he prefers cricket.
You sound as if someone you used to make do your homework is now your boss. Quit whining.
"By Grabthar's Hammer, what a savings."
MCMLXXXVIII
How do you say that in a hurry eh?
And don't get me started on the US/UK difference in missing out 'and' e.g. 101 Dalmations:
One Hundred AND One Dalmations
vs
One Hundred, One Dalmations.
And how about Two gross, three dozen and four?
"Thirteen Twenty", could be a year or a time.
Four score and Ten
vs
Quatre Vingt Dix
Is there an official way of pronouncing a hexadecimal number like CF9?
"Three thousand five hundred seventy seven."
There have been many, many comments along these lines here at slashdot (why would I expect more?), and it is just wrong.
Twenty-three obviously represents a two in the second order digit and a three in the first order digit. In addition, our language has an implied base 10 marker, though not an inherent one. We did not name 2^6 number of sticks as "si-cs-ti-for", like we did a "pair" of sticks, we constructed that number out of a shared understanding of a base 10 numerical system.
If you ask someone to write down "one, two, three, and four" and they do so as "1,10,11,100," that would be a conversion between bases. The proper way to read that back would either be "one binary, one zero binary, one one binary, one zero zero binary" or "binary one, ten, eleven, one hundred," depending upon whether the person you are speaking to ties colloquial number abbreviations to base 10 or not.
If someone asked you to read the hexadecimal "23" (or in computer terms 0x23), the proper way is to say "twenty-three." If you had just said "thirty-five," the base-10 equivalent, you would not have communicated the number effectively: you would need to say "thirty-five base ten," at which point your friend would probably say he needed the hexidecimal, thank you.
Any numbers you see or speak have an explicit or an implied base, whether you can see it or not.
The ______ Agenda
And the always helpful "Charlie-gazillion" (usually C0000000h), although "Charlie-eight-gazillion" (C8000000h) seems acceptable, as long as everyone knows you are dealing with a single word (2-byte word fans need not apply).
"It's tough to be bilingual when you get hit in the head."
Keanu Reeves on Celebrity Jeopardy:
Trebek: "And You wagered eleventy billion dollars. That's not even a real number"
Reeves "...yet."
Trebek "Simply stunning."
Of course, I guess that's better than French Stewart's $Texas wager.
"Reality is merely an illusion, albeit a very persistent one " -Albert Einstein
For hex, we just need new terms for the powers, e.g.
0 zero 10 hex 20 biex 10 hex
1 one 11 hexune 21 biex one 20 biex
2 two 12 hexadual 22 biex two 30 triex
3 three 13 hexter 23 biex three 40 quadex
4 four 14 hexaquad 24 biex four 50 quinex
5 five 15 hexequine 25 biex five 60 sessex
6 six 16 hexess 26 biex six 70 heptex
7 seven 17 hexept 27 biex seven 80 octex
8 eight 18 hexoct 28 biex eight 90 nonex
9 nine 19 hexanone 29 biex nine a0 alphex
a alp 1a alphexen 2a biex alp b0 bethex
b bet 1b bethexen 2b biex bet c0 caphex
c cap 1c caphexen 2c biex cap d0 dellex
d dell 1d dellexen 2d biex dell e0 eechex
e eek 1e eechexen 2e biex eek f0 fokex
f foke 1f foxen 2f biex foke
100 one hexted
1000 hex hexted
1,0000 one hexend
10,0000 hex hexend
100,000 one hexted hexend
1000,0000 hex hexted hexend
1,0000,0000 one hexillion
2^64 one biexillion
2^96 one triexillion
2^128 one quadexillion
Pronunciation guide
hexune as in "hex yoon"
hexanone rhymes with zone
alphexen as in alfexen
caphexen as in cafexen
foxen rhymes with hoax
biex as in "buy X"
triex as in "try X"
quinex as in "Quin X"
nonex as in "Zone X"
fokex as in "Broke X"
Examples
101 one hexted and one
111 one hexted and hexune
1CE = one hexted and caphex eek
CF9 = cap hexted and fokex nine
DEADBEEF = Dellex eek hexted and alphex dell hexend, bethex eek hexted and eechex foke
Compare with a decimal approximation of 83286339, i.e.
"Eighty three hundred and twenty eight 'tenthou', sixty three hundred and thirty nine"
as opposed to
"Eighty three million, two hundred and eighty six thousand, three hundred and thirty nine"
In hex. 83326339 would be
"Octex three hexted and triex two hexend, sessex three hexted and triex nine"
Why don't you kick around a fucking soccer ball or something.
Then he'll get a severe ass kicking every single day! Soccer is a girls' sport.
Does efty-1-ninety remind anyone else of the shop keep out of League of Gentlemen?
This is local site for local people
Rus
Cheap UK and US VPS
That's certainly interesting, and if I were writing a SF novel about a future in which the world had converted to hex, I might use it. Except by that time we'd probably have a more efficient means of communicating numbers to each other than speech....
I wouldn't teach a kid that this was how to pronounce hex, anyway (see orig question); after all, conversation is about shared meaning, and if he's the only one in the room who knows what he's saying, he's not communicating. That's even worse than raising your kid speaking Klingon (where at least there are a *few* people out there who'll be able to figure out what he's saying).
If you *really* need to be able to pronounce hex (instead of just typing or writing it!) just say "hex", pronounce each numeral, and use alpha bravo charlie delta echo foxtrot ("niner" instead of nine, if you want).
Very simple, uses standards everyone understands (or can figure out in 5 seconds), is clear to the ear and easily transcribed (unlike saying "four hundred seventeen, in hex" and forcing the person to convert). Plus this works with ANY base!
--
Everything should be made as simple as possible, but not simpler. -Albert Einstein
There are only 10 types of people: those who understand decimal, those who don't, and, uh, 8 other types I forget.
What's wrong with just prouncing it "cee-eff-nine"?
Government IS the problem.
my professor is giving $50 to the person who can collect the most spam in 3 weeks so please forward me your inbox, sign me up for midget pr0n, post my email anywhere! My email is me_is_farked@yahoo.com the more the merrier!!!
One hundred buckets of bits on the bus,
one hundred buckets of bits.
Take one down,
Short it to ground
FF buckets of bits on the bus.
...
i have a simple idea. since you want to make a representation of the "number" through speech, then use pitch to represent the "place" of the number: something like C-3! F-2! 1-1! in the manner of Knights which say NEE! see: monty python
Eight ? Man I want 16 on each, base 32 the only way to go baby.
The slashdot group will argue about ANYTHING! You guys are as bad as my daughter. She'd argue over the validity of 2 + 2 = 4.
Anonymous Cowards suck.
How is "dog" two syllables? Or "fox?"
Just wondering....
What I should have said was nothing.
10 is pronounced "sixteen".
11 is pronounced "seventeen".
12 is pronounced "eighteen".
13 is pronounced "nineteen".
14 is pronounced "twenty".
1E is pronounced "thirty".
3E8 is pronounced "one thousand",
Whether a number is written in decimal or hexidecimal or binary, its verbal representation is the same. A number is a number.
it isn't "Four thousand seven hundred and twenty nine", it is "Four thousand seven hundred twenty nine".
4729.5 - Four thousand seven hundred twenty nine and five tenths
The truth doesn't care what I think.
"four hundred thirty six and two tenths" = 436.2, or so says every first grade mathematics textbook I've ever seen.
Of course, in practice, it's read "four hundred thirty-six point two" in the USA. Evidence: FM radio stations that say "ninety-five point one" rather than *"ninety-five and one tenth". In fact, saying "point" reinforces the difference between the inexact numeral 95.1 and the exact numeral 95+1/10.
Will I retire or break 10K?
He taught his kid Hexidecimal. He said 100 = 64 well that is OCTAL! in Hex 100 = 256.
Perhaps he is speaking of Alpha, Bravo, Charlie, Delta, Echo, Foxtrot, etc...
My dingo ate your honor student.
"... two-four".
Geez!
zWhat would an EWOULDBLOCK block, if an EWOULDBLOCK could block would? -- me
Ah ha... no one mentioned that in the parent. Thanks for the heads up!
What I should have said was nothing.
Of course, using "point" when referring to money would sound pretty retarded.
Ah, the exception that proves the rule; however, there is a rule for exceptions to the rule. A check is a legal document, and legal documents tend not to use colloquialisms such as "point". But notice also that the fraction following the "and" in the amount field is written in figures ("and 53/100 XXXXXXXX"), not in words ("and fifty-three hundredths XXXXXXXX").
Will I retire or break 10K?
I propose using the suffix hex for multiples of 16^1,
hexia for multiples of 16^2 and
hexium for multiples of 16^3.
Therefore I would pronounce CF9 as "Twelve-hexia, Effex, Nine"
B3D1 would be "Elevenexium, threehexia, deehex, one"
Note: A, B and C can be pronounced ten, eleven, twelve.
D, E and F I would pronounce dee, ee and eff.
You make the mistake of thinking you can educate the fundamental stupidity out of people. You can't.
Hmm... Heads up indeed. Or perhaps eyes up. He did mention "aviation notation" in the subject line. But that's why I don't like it when people make the subject line the beginning of the first sentence of their post, then continuing it in the actual body. It makes it a bit confusing because it's so easy to skip past the subject line and get to the meat of the post. The subject line should be a reference to the body, but the body should be able to stand on its own.
SARCASM, dude
Perhaps he is speaking of Alpha ...
Exactly. But it's she. Thanks!
THIS THING CAN TURN ON A DIME, MACROSSZERO STYLE ALSO FUCK BETA, ~NYORON
Uh, sorry I don't see anything sarcastic there. Seriously. Don't you think that could have been an entirely straighforward conversation with no sarcasm. But this is Slashdot, we couldn't have that.
Three thousand, three hundred and twenty-one?
Tell your son that rules for formal pronunciation require on-the-fly conversion to decimal.
Informally, he can say either "zero eks cee eff nine", or "cee eff nine base sixteen".
If he's smart, he'll figure out it's less work to settle for the serialization scheme of pronunciation.
Shoot, for very large or very many decimal numbers that you have to read over the phone the serialization protocol is typically what is used.
You don't hear many folks talk about their checking account balances of "four hundred eighty-seven undecillion, nine hundred seventeen decillion, ...."
"Provided by the management for your protection."