Cheap New 1 Inch HDD Holds 1.5GB

SlightlyMadman writes "Cornice, Inc. has unveiled a new alternative for small devices requiring large amounts of storage. With an expected OEM price of about $100, it blows the smaller microdrive out of the water (at least until this fall). The days of cramming bulky 2.5" disks into mp3 players may finally be over."

Comments

The days of cramming 2.5" disks was over in 2001

[KFury]

The Toshiba 1.8" drives used in ipods made huge waves in portable MP3 designs. Granted, 1" is even better, but let's not forget the leaders in the field.

Cool�

[Anonymous Coward]

...a shuttle craft for my 3.5inch floppy Enterprise.

Dad Gummit!

[ackthpt]

Why it seems only 3 years ago I saw them 300MB IBM Microdrives at a CES and marvelled at its compactness and possibilies. I already feel like a geezer when I describe (with misty eyes) my days changing RP04 packs (DEC 80 MB removable, that is, you took the pack of platters and spindle out and put a different one in.) It done be amazin. How long before a Video Ipod? (Or did I already miss it?)

Fast forward to April 15, 2023

"Whatchu got there, boy? Looks like a wristwatch stuck in each of your eyes."
"Aw, gramps, it's a 3D-VR Relay, I'm in a meeting at work, talking to my girlfriend and watching The Matrix Gets Old, can I get back with you?"
"Shee-yoot, I might be daid by then!"
"That's ok, Gramps, I have your soul digitized and can carry on any conversation with you in Virtual Space, now."
"You can fit my very essence into those things?"
"Yeah, you only take up 3 terabytes."

Re:Dad Gummit!

[Jeff DeMaagd]

I am still wary of those things. They have to be treated very gently. I've read that just the act of putting some pressure on the center of the larger faces of the drives can kill them.

I'd rather stick to a "bulky" 2.5" MD or mini-CD, which I've never personally damaged media or players of either format.

Affordable?

[osPDAproject]

I don't really call $100 "affordable" for 1.5GB. What I would like to see is a cheap mini-drive for my PDA. Yummy.

Re:Affordable?

[ackthpt]

I don't really call $100 "affordable" for 1.5GB. What I would like to see is a cheap mini-drive for my PDA.

What makes you think you wont? Seems the most logical first adoption.

Re:Affordable?

[Anonymous Coward]

Well, considering 1GB CompactFlash cards are around $200, $100 for 1.5GB is pretty cheap for ultra-small storage.

Re:Affordable?

[muyuubyou]

If this thing is as slow as IBM's microdrive, $100 for a slow 1.5GB CF is nothing spectacular against $200 for a fast 1GB CF.

May have a niche, but save your pyrotechnics for another occasion.

Re:Affordable?

[cpeterso]

If this thing is as slow as IBM's microdrive, $100 for a slow 1.5GB CF is nothing spectacular against $200 for a fast 1GB CF.


So 150% the storage for 50% is not interesting? There are some price/performance points where price and size are more important than raw speed.

Forget MP3 Players

[levik]

I can't wait to have these start appearing in all sorts of Palm devices. The processors and screens of these guys have long caught up to the PC's of min 90's, but the sotrage capacities have been hovering around late 80's levels with the micro-drives being too large to fit in.

Finally we may see a handheld where storage is not a limited factor.

Another good application would be digital cameras.

Re:Forget MP3 Players

[Richard_at_work]

I can't wait to have these start appearing in all sorts of Palm devices. The processors and screens of these guys have long caught up to the PC's of min 90's, but the sotrage capacities have been hovering around late 80's levels with the micro-drives being too large to fit in.

Yes, but battery capacity hasnt. When alcohol powercells come in, maybe, but until then, no way. Adding a hard disk to a palm device would bring the length of time between charges down to daily, not acceptable. :(

Re:Forget MP3 Players

[levik]

For most high-end color devices, it's already there. This is not really too big a deal - the high end PDAs come with cradles that people make a habit of sticking them into every night. Nobody really bitches about the fact that their cell phones need to be charged every evening after work.

Face it, how often is it that you're away from any outlet for over 24 hours? The few people that have these situations can splurge for a replacement battery/addon battery pack/solar panel/hand crank/whatever.

Re:Forget MP3 Players

[evilviper]

Finally we may see a handheld where storage is not a limited factor.

Say what now? 1.5GB, and storage is now not a factor?

First of all, that's not very big. Second, CF cards bigger than that have been around for quit some time, so you could already have had a handheld with more capacity than what you MIGHT, EVENTUALLY, see. And finally, solid-state is much lower power.

Hmm, you know, you might be right. Once these hard drives are in handhelds, the batteries will be dead so quickly that batteries will be the limiting factor, not the storage.

Re:Forget MP3 Players

[LePrince]

I already do all this with a device called a laptop computer.

A Palm is devised to be a small, efficient organiser, with some apps to help you do some basic tasks. No, I don't want to watch the simpsons on a 3 inches screen. I want to watch it on my 15 inches laptop screen. My PDA is used to keep my life organised, and make it so that if I go on a 2 weeks trip I don't even have to recharge it (same reason why I don't buy color PDAs, it sucks too much battery). Want to input faster on your PDA ? Well, if you REALLY need to, they have some external keyboards. But I can input really fast using my laptop...

I tell you, my Palm has 8 megs of memory, and I don't need more. It's really enough for some little games, get my news with AvantGo, and a couple of offline webpages with Plucker. So why a gig in my Palm, when I can get 30 in my laptop with a much bigger screen for all multimedia purposes ?

Re:Forget MP3 Players

[Glyndwr]

Heat can be a real issue. I've heard horror stories of Sharp Zaurus's (Zaurii?) fitted with 1Gb IBM CF Microdrives hitting 70degC... Rather worrying, methinks.

Re:Forget MP3 Players

[RealErmine]

Adding a hard disk to a palm device would bring the length of time between charges down to daily, not acceptable. :(

Huh? Do you sleep once a day? Can't you cradle your palm (so to speak) each night before you go to bed? What the heck? Maybe you were confused when you wrote that.

I hear that the new iPod firmware brings it back up to 10 hours of standby per charge and it's drive probably uses more power than this 1" one. That's not good enough for damn near everybody?

Re:Forget MP3 Players

[levik]

Then you probably don't talk on your cell phone too much. As long as you keep using your PDAs as often as you do your cell phone, I don't think you will have any problems.

Interface

[rf0]

Well if you look at the Microdrive its takes a standard interface, in the form of CF which allows me to plug it into my camera, PC or whatever I want.

However from the article

"It does not employ common interfaces such as CompactFlash and ATA to connect a HDD and a host device, but uses a simple and original interface."

So basically its a propriatory interface. Its cool don't get me wrong but I don't think IBM will be scared just yet. For it to make an impact the interface it uses will have to become wide spread and I don't think that will happen taking the current number of different formats in a similar space such as SD Cards, Memory sticks etc. I'm sure it has it uses but prehaps not in the public field.

Rus

Re:Interface

[Wuffle]

You seem to forget that the article states that it isn't designed as a replacement to CF cards and the like as it was designed to be embedded into the device eg. Apple iPod.

The reason for it not using the standard ATA interface was to bring the number of components down. This allows them to make the drive smaller and cheaper.

It also states the the drive isn't just a shurnken IDE drive but a complete redesign to tailor the drive for small size.

Don't forget, in Canada...

[Steve Cowan]

If that HD is packaged in an MP3 player we will have to pay a huge levy on that gigabyte.

Re:Don't forget, in Canada...

[sogoodsofarsowhat]

And thats what you GET for living in CANADA!!! BWHAHAHAHAHA (unprovoked attack on canada hehehe)

Re:Don't forget, in Canada...

[Gulik]

If that HD is packaged in an MP3 player we will have to pay a huge levy on that gigabyte.

In corporatist Canada, blank media burns you.

(Score: -1; Moldering meta-joke)

It's fine IF....

[binaryDigit]

you don't mind proprietary interfaces. I wonder how many /.'ers will pipe up and dismiss this tech since it doesn't support ATA (or anything else).

OR will they say, hey, it's fine for it's purpose and it's intended host is probably going to be something that you can't upgrade anyway (i.e. throwaway) so who cares? In either case it's a different market specialization than the micro drive.

Anyway, one thing they don't mention is the performance specs. What is the throughput of this technology? If it's designed to be low powered (which you would assume given it's intended usage), how long does it take for the drive to spin up, etc. Often when you simplify you get better mtbf (fewer things to fail), however with their push to produce a cheaper drive, will reliability suffer?

Re:It's fine IF....

[Anonymous Coward]

Performance is microdrive-comparable - over 3Mbytes/second generally. Spinup is usually 1 second. Power use is similar to microdrive, but it's 3.3v only.

It *does* give an ATAPI interface, but the point is the drive is embedded - you plonk the drive controller chip (which has pins that form an ATAPI interface to your own circuitry) onto the board with the rest of your circuitry, and a teensy twenty-something way connector connects to the drive mechanicals.

This way, the drive mech is smaller, you don't need bulky CF plugs and sockets, and it's integrated deeply into your system where you can optimise the design for power, speed, whatever.

If you check out recent press releases/rumour sites, you'll notice that Samsung announced a 1.5GB digital camcorder at CES, and Rio showed a 1.5GB minature MP3 player at CES. Noone else makes a 1.5GB drive that I know of, so I guess this is what's inside those two toys.

Video iPod...

[Keighvin]

It's called a Multimedia Jukebox - http://www.archos.com

20GB, plays MP3 and DivX simple profile (even with a video out port for TV), also records to MP3 audio or MPEG4/DivX video. Got one, it's a lot of fun.

Also available on ThinkGeek.com, or modded on eBay up to 60GB+

Re:Video iPod...

[Anonvmous Coward]

"It's called a Multimedia Jukebox - http://www.archos.com"

I wanted one of those until I saw one at CompUSA. That screen was extremely tiny. Like watching TV on your cell phone.

My advice: Hold one in your hands before you buy one.

Re:Video iPod...

[Keighvin]

Right - common sense, make sure any product fits your actual needs before you plunk down the cash. For me, it was to be able to transfer files from portable media (Smart Media, Compact Flash) to this gadget on the go. I use it to record video in some cases, but only for transfer to computer or playback on a larger device afterward.

I wouldn't recommend it for watching anything over about 20 minutes on its built-in screen.

Re:Video iPod...

[Dylan Zimmerman]

I believe that he said "video iPod". The Archos is no iPod by any stretch of the imagination. Consider, the iPod has only 5 buttons, a wheel, and a hold switch.

Now, I will admit that I haven't seen many Archos products in person, but the only Archos Jukebox that I _have_ seen had easily a dozen buttons. It's screen was also significantly smaller than the iPod's and it's backlight was dimmer.

I love my iPod. If Apple made one that could play and record videos (think pocket PVR), I'd have it as soon as it came out. And really, that isn't too unrealistic. IIRC, Intel has a technique that lets them put inductors into ICs. Just pay Intel for that technology and then build a one-chip tuner. Double the thickness of the iPod for an extra battery and the tuner/output circuitry and you have a PVR that can fit in your pocket.

$100/gig?

[Junior J. Junior III]

For $100, I can get around 100-120GB in a 3.5" hard drive. I can't think of too many reasons I'd want to be lugging around 1.5 GB of portable storage. Music is nice I guess, but it's not worth $100 for me to have a decent-sized MP3 library I can carry around with me.

Benefit?

[Anonymous Coward]

You can find 512 MB flash cards now for about $100
and the price is dropping by at least a factor of two every 10 months.

I don't see why anyone would buy this. It is sure to draw more current than a flash card, will likely not be as shock resistant, and it is not meant to be removable. No more easily transfering files between you're camera/mp3 player with a cheap USB flash reader.

The only advantage may be in access speed, althoug flash cards are plenty fast for MP3 playback and camera use.

So why get this?

Re:Benefit?

[WindBourne]

The nice thing about CF is that you can switch to something bigger in the future, be it Flash Card or a HD. This drive has a propreitary interface which makes upgrading less likely and almost certainly expensive.

Re:Benefit?

[stratjakt]

These will get cheaper over time too, so it'll probably lead to super-cheap mp3 players/digicams and the like in the future, with an embedded gig or two, and maybe make CF or something an option for expansion.

They have a ton of embedded applications, from rackmounted equipment (0.5u servers?), or even the next Gameboy - or maybe even the current GBA (price comes down and have a 1.5 gig HDD inside a GBA Cart? That'd make for some cool games)

Re:Benefit?

[CatOne]

I'm not so sure about that. I've heard the OTHER side of the coin -- namely that professional photographers PREFER multiple, smaller cards. That way if "something bad happens" they lose the photos on that particular (say, 256 MB) card, but not *all* of them. The photographer at my sister's wedding this past weekend was using a Fuji FinePix S2 Pro, and he had a belt full of CF cards -- probably 10 or 12 of them at least. They were all smaller CF cards (at least the couple I could read were 256).

Re:Benefit?

[TheGratefulNet]

my response to that is: digital wallet. there are neat toys that you insert a CF into a slot, press a single button and it creates a new dir and copies the files to it. you use a 2.5" drive in that 'wallet' and then you can init the flash card and reuse it. in fact, you usually double buffer - you have one card in the camera and another being dumped to hard disk. I have such a 'wallet' and its pretty cool. you can even dump the card twice (2 unique dirs) if you are that paranoid.

and if you're REALLY paranoid, you ALWAYS shoot film as well as digital. I do, and I'm not even a pro/working-for-a-living photog - just an enthusiast who knows a bit about the field.

Think twice...

[dekashizl]

OK so the drive is really cute, especially next to that coin. But I drop my phone about once a month, in haste I've slammed my Palm into a phone booth wall, and I keep my MP3 player in my sweaty pocket at the gym. Is it just me, or does little moving parts and sensitive magnetic equipment not seem to mesh well with these environments?

SD/CF/MemoryStick

[barnaclebarnes]

Considering you can already get 512MB (1GB maybe?) on an SD, CF, or MemoryStick which is 1/4 of the size why would you want one with moving parts if it is only 1.5GB? Price would be the only reason so it is really not anything special. If it was 15GB then it would be something to write about. /b

Re:SD/CF/MemoryStick

[markclong]

Consider using it in an embedded type device. Say a network appliance. Using Compact Flash is difficult, as you need to write to the disk and not only read. Writing to Compact Flash or any other form of memory using flash or EEPROM is hard on the memory. There are a finite number of writes before the memory device fails and placing a operating system swap file on one can kill it in a hurry.

I see this as geared more towards the network appliance, a PDA, or an embedded system that requires a real hard drive. Digital cameras and other devices needing removable media would probably still use Compact Flash, Secure Digital, or Smart Media and they are not as write intensive, at least not to the extent that a OS swap file is.

Consider the alternative

[Christopher Bibbs]

If I could have 1.5GB of memory in my digital camera for $100, it'd be a done deal. As is, CompactFlash memory is around $50 for 256MB so I'd have to buy six cards which will cost more and be a greater hassle. Even the MicroDrives are $200 for 1GB. I think 1GB is really close to the sweet spot for digital photos. Very few people will need any more than that on a vacation. MP3's on the other hand, I think 100GB is closer to what is right.

Re:Consider the alternative

[AnonymousComrade]

1GB is really close to the sweet spot for digital photos. Very few people will need any more than that on a vacation.

640 kB should be enough for anyone. :-)

Re:Consider the alternative

[levik]

If you need 100GB for MP3s, you probably have the "Write-Only Syndrome" where you download music/movies/programs to add them to your collection, but never actually listen/use/watch them (well maybe once). While it's your right to do this, you have to admit that you don't really *NEED* all that space.

Re:Consider the alternative

[TheRaven64]

And if it isn't, use QEMM to put some TSR proggies in UMB and HMA space.

QEMM? Pah! Some of us manually editied out config.sys files and autoexec.bat files to load drivers into UMB and HMA space in the optimum order.

Run mem, hack start-up files, reboot and repeat. Ah, those were the days...

It's amazing, computers get less irritating, and we get nostalgic for the 'good old days' when we could be properly elitist. I guess that's what people use Linux for nowdays.

Re:Consider the alternative

[Eric_Cartman_South_P]

QEMM? Pah! Some of us manually editied out config.sys files and autoexec.bat files

Did that too... himem.sys and emm386.exe with all the tweaked options. Fun stuff. QEMM 386 was great because it had tons of colorfull, complex, and completely useless (for a 12 year old, anyway) screens to stare at and run tests again and again. Crazy. I think the test of a true hard core geek is to see if he/she gets mesmerized by watching the GUI of a hard drive degragging program. I used to stare at that thing like moths to a blue light. Ahh... memories of BBS's and ZModem and leechin' files and checking .nfo's.

So, where is the RAID chip, huh?

[LibertineR]

Actually this thing is pretty cool. However, I am not too keen on a lot of movable(breakable) parts to insure my access to pictures in my digital cameras. For cameras, I think it is best to stick with solid-state memory. I cant imagine anyone being able to do data recovery on one of these things.

Were I shooting someone's wedding, there would be hell to pay if I came to them and said the DISK CRASHED, and their pictures are kaput. No, I think I will stick with flash memory, and let some other sucker iron out the kinks.

microdrive

[Xunker]

It may very well blow the IBM Microdrive out of the water, but please keep in mind that the Microdrive is, in fact, a five-year-old design and with something of that age a new advancement is bound to come along.

It's all evolutionary, not neccessarily revolutionary. Revolutionary would be, uhm, I don't know, using lazors to etch bit patters in my Raspberry Jello.

Old Geezer?

[delphi125]

Obviously not old enough to remember the original microdrive (circa 1984).

Blown out of the water?

[foxtrot]

it blows the smaller microdrive out of the water

I'll consider my Microdrive blown out of the water when this new thing fits in my Canon Powershot G1.

It sounds like they're two very different markets. This thing requires a proprietary interface; the Microdrive (and similar devices like the 5 or 10GB PCMCIA hard disks) use standard well-published and darned near ubiquitous interfaces. This new thing sounds like it could be built into something easily, but not as useful as removable storage. I get to thinking there's room for one of these in my car stereo, for example...

still too pricey!

[u19925]

at $100 a piece, it is still pricey. last time, i bought my 512 MB CF card for $68. So CF cards, which come in different sizes, fits in PCMCIA slot with just a passive connector, requires no driver, .... is only 35 % more expensive. I guess, I will stick with CF. The prices of CF cards are falling faster than any microdrive, iomegra click drive, etc may even go below $100/GB before the time, this drive comes in market. I have PDA, Digital Camera which take CF card natively. Also I have a laptop and printer which read CF card with just a passive adapter.

Re:still too pricey!

[seniorcoder]

I agree.

Further advantages of flash memory:

• Less power required
• No spin-up time
• No head crashes
• Cannot be jarred/jogged
• Less heat generated
• Completely silent
• Less affected by temperature

Disadvantages of flash memory:

• Slower access times
• Smaller transfer rates

The key point is whether flash memory is fast enough for the application.
Certainly OK for MP3 player, probably not fast enough for video capture.

A 1 inch 1.5gb hard drive....

[Blacklotuz]

Porn, from concentrate...

well if the RIAA get it's way..

[azcoffeehabit]

"The days of cramming bulky 2.5" disks into mp3 players may finally be over."

yeah if the RIAA gets their way this will be is the understatement of the year.

Re:The days of cramming 2.5" disks was over in 200

[b_pretender]

Don't limit yourself to MP3 players. Think about what a embedded tiny 1.5 GB drive would do for digital cameras, PDA's, you name it!!

No CF2, No dice

[agslashdot]

The compact flash marketplace is huge. Just about every digital camera requires and supports CF2, and the IBM microdrive is the only HD fitting in that slot that offers 1GB capacity. By choosing to ditch CF2, I don't see these guys having much of a chance. Do you seriously expect Nikon and Canon and every other big fish in the camera market who have finally agreed to settle on CF2 to now support this new harddisk without CF2 ?

Re:No replacement yet

[afidel]

Nope, the 1.8" Toshiba HDD that's in the iPod is not cheap at all. If bought in a PC Card form factor it costs around $210 for the 5GB model, so only about 1/2X the cost/GB. Basically it's the same old story size/cost/capacity choose two.

Slashdot Rule Nbr 93.

[SomeOtherGuy]

If the linked page requires Japanese text support, the chances of ever seeing these puppies on American soil, let alone your local Best Buy is slim to none.

Re:The days of cramming 2.5" disks was over in 200

[Bingo Foo]

And seeing my HDD compared to a coin for scale really makes me wonder whats MTBF?

You'd have to ask the treasury department to be sure, but I think it's about 20 years for quarters, slightly longer for dimes and nickels and slightly less for pennies.

Re:Finally

[Jack Porter]

Try one of these. iRiver iFP-195TC 512MB, tiny, 20 hours from a single AA battery. Amazon started selling them last week. I love mine.

fsck is kind of like fuck

[rice_burners_suck]

Soon, nanotechnology will make hard drives the size of the sharp point of a needle with the capacity of one hundred thousand million billion trillion terabytes a reality. Only you'll need to make a backup cuz you won't be able to find your hard drive... it'll blow away in the wind.

Is this a hoax? Where's the Cornice web site?

[writertype]

Unless my Google powers are sadly lacking (and it's a possibility; I stopped clicking after the third page of results) I fail to see how this story has been proved to be legitimate. Yes, Nikkei reported it, but you would think a company with intentions to be a real player would at least have a web site. The only mention I can find of Cornice on the 'net is a circular chain of stories, all linking back to the Nikkei piece.

Depends on the interface...

[Ungrounded Lightning]

So basically its a propriatory interface. Its cool don't get me wrong but I don't think IBM will be scared just yet.

That depends on the interface, doesn't it? If it's dog-simple to support on the far end it might take off big time. If they provide a small macro for designers to use in FPGAs or ASICs, standards aren't a major issue. Ditto if it presents itself as an internet-like device you can get to through a stock serial port and a minimal stock stack.

Looks like five wires. Five? Power, ground, three left over. Clock, TxD, Rxd? Bidirectional balanced serial bus and a reset/shutdown signal? Motor power, logic power, ground, bidir bus? Power, ground, balanced bus, EMI ground? (Maybe the flexy-board is double sided and it's ten wires?)

I want to see a description of this "simple and original" interface.

Re:The days of cramming 2.5" disks was over in 200

[ReelOddeeo]

Don't limit yourself to MP3 players. Think about what a embedded tiny 1.5 GB drive would do for [....]

Think of what it could do for portable, easily concealed packet sniffers!

Some awesome uses..

[g8way]

Instead of trying to use this like a CompactFlash, like most of you would like to do, you could embed this into, say, a PDA. You could replace the usual 64mb flash that comes with them, to possibly eliminate the need for extra power hogging storage devices.. Maybe someone should embed this into a cd player so you can record your cds to it, and not have to fumble with them again (before the government outlaws the device because everyone rips their friend's cds)