Slashdot Mirror
Low Cost Cinema Through Dynamic Pricing
cinesprocket writes "EasyJet, the European pioneer of LowCost airline travel has broadened its horizon into the entertainment field. easyCinema is to open tomorrow in Milton Keynes, England, offering cinema-goers cheap rate tickets as low as 20 pence (33 cents) using the same formula that made their airline company revolutionise the industry in Europe. However, according to the the BBC, easyCinema is being given the bird by Hollywood who will not allow it to show it's high cost movies for a low price for fear that it will create a domino effect in the future, like the airline industry has felt (in Europe). Given that easyCinema is willing to pay the movie producers the same price as the other multiplexes, it shouldn't matter what price they sell on the tickets at for we poor folk? Their success depends upon showing the big films and their lawyers are reported to be already mounting a case. Given that the case will be heard in England, where the MPAA have less of a hold on the government, it will be interesting whether they can bring the behemoth to its knees."
Tickets to the Matrix 2 would've cost $5,402,302.49 each.
Courts? Why are there courts involved? Is easyCinema trying to force the MPAA to sign a contract? Is the MPAA trying to get easyCinema shut down even though they aren't doing business with each other?
should be US-only problem. If something, in this case rights to show a movie in a theather, is sold to europe, MPAA should not have ANY say in the matter. As long as both parties of the deal which gives those rights follow the deal.
It makes me angry to even think about any meddling from MPAA part on british, or any european film avenue for that matter.
-Is the meaning of life vanity, or is vanity the meaning of life?
The money for the release locations is in concessions. Get the body in the door, then make your dime. Ticket price is not the principle motivating factor in the business model of most theaters, regardless of whether they are first-run mega-plexes or indie houses. SUre enough tickets are revenue, but that's not your profit center when you run a theater.
distributors make money out of box office, cinemas barely keep themselves staffed and the doors unlocked on the ticket margins they recieve. Thats why coke and popcorn are so expensive and only come in two sizes: Xtra Large and INSANE!
Before adopting WHATWG, read the moonlight.NET EULA [http://www.microsoft.com/interop/msnovellcollab/moonlight.mspx]
- Frequent viewer miles - Standby viewings - Movie ticket scalping - Last minute rushes for extremely low prices - Progressive/preferential seating and all those other "niceties" ^_^
I sincerely hope that easyCinema appears, enjoys a lot of success, and causes exactly the domino effect that the MPAA fears. I want to see movie prices come down, and more importantly, I want to see this change affect the music industry as well. Finally, I hope that such a powerful domino effect causes laws like the DMCA to get taken out of the books.
what I don't understand is how this company claims to be able to make any profit. The motion picture companies have the right to charge what they want for a movie, after all how else are we going to get 200 million dollar blockbusters? What doesn't make sense is selling tickets this cheap. Sure if you plan on making money off concessions you can get away with it. But their website even said that they encourage people to bring their own sodas and popcorn. They mentioned that most theaters are only 20% full. Makes sense, as most people can't make showings at 2 in the afternoon on a work day. But regardless of how cheap tickets are people still can't make the showings. They talk about making money in the margins, but it doesn't seem logical. If they have to pay a fee to the movie company for each viewer of it, then there's no possible way this makes sense. Who knows, maybe theirs some brittish law that forces motion picture companies to sell tickets in a certain manner. If this is true, and they'd be paying less pre viewer, then I understand why the MPAA or whoever would be angry, and not want them to sell tickets. As the information I see shows though, it just looks like a business model that will follow the dot coms to a massive crash. Philip
As it stands, in some parts of the not so rich world , movie tickets are just about equel that in value.
So what if the lowest possible ticket price is 33 cents? it's just like booking a really cheap flight.. teh cheapest one being the 3 a.m flight which you have to book 6 months adead for.
Why not have it like in a real theather, where the better seats, say smack right in the center, are more expensive then the left most seat in the front row?
You get to advertise cheap and you have the option of paying less for a crappy seat.
Sometimes I wish I was a plumber, then I'd know how to deal with other people's shit.
This is yet another venture by Stelios Haji-Ioannou, the seventh of his easy* ventures. One of these is easyJet, but he's no longer involved with the management of that company.
open tomorrow in Milton Keynes, England
Is that next to John Maynard Friedman, England?
ba-dum-dum
Yeah, when Bill Gates decides to release the NT source code and license it GNU. Just like the record industry, the movie industry enjoys it's little spot at the top, and it will take a lot more than a few entrepreneurs to make them let go.
The only way to make the MPAA and RIAA listen to customer demands is if there is an all out boycott. No CDs, no singles, no DVDs, no movies, no tapes, no bargain bin, no radio, no downloads, nothing... not one more penny enters their pockets, and not one byte to blame on software piracy. Just like drugs, as long as there is demand, there will be a dealer. Like Nancy said, "Just say NO!"
1. Sell movie tickets for a loss.
2. ???
3. Profit!!!
Tell me again why people who think the airline industry is a good place to turn a profit have a viable business model here?
...would be to not only have cheap tickets
...and then charge $20 to use the bathroom
but to sell those super duper jumbo sodas really cheap
seriously the only time you ever have to pee worse than when you wake up in the morning is right after sitting through a movie in the theatre, or is this just me?
Famous Last Words: "hmm...wikipedia says it's edible"
They should show some films from independent filmmakers. There are a lot of good films out there and few of them originate in Hollywood.
Prevent email address forgery. Publish SPF records for y
Where's the "delete post" button?
Oh well, I'm used to feeling stupid. At least I'm not the only one.
From your link:
Entry for Myriad:
adj.
1. Constituting a very large, indefinite number; innumerable: the myriad fish in the ocean.
2. Composed of numerous diverse elements or facets: the myriad life of the metropolis.
n.
1. A vast number: the myriads of bees in the hive.
2. Archaic. Ten thousand.
Usage Note: Throughout most of its history in English myriad was used as a noun, as in a myriad of men. In the 19th century it began to be used in poetry as an adjective, as in myriad men. Both usages in English are acceptable, as in Samuel Taylor Coleridge's "Myriad myriads of lives." This poetic, adjectival use became so well entrenched generally that many people came to consider it as the only correct use. In fact, both uses in English are parallel with those of the original ancient Greek. The Greek word mYrias, from which myriad derives, could be used as either a noun or an adjective, but the noun mYrias was used in general prose and in mathematics while the adjective mYrias was used only in poetry.
So, if they're following the airline business model, does that mean that you can watch the movie for free, but you have to buy a ticket in order to listen to it too?
-Elentar
The wheel it turns, around and around, with an ancient rumbling sound.
The boys presenting this scheme have a good, solid idea which has been used to before by some other industries (e.g., the airlines). Fact is, actual attendance is dismally low compared to seating when you adjust for all times, around 1/5 of the theater seats available. Decreasing price results in increasing attendance; Econ 101 tells you that in many cases the improved attendance will actually result in *more* profits, not less. That is:
Fill 20 seats at $7 each = $140
Fill 50 seats at $4 each = $200
Fill 100 seats at $2.50 each = $250
And so on.
But the MPAA isn't interested in the basics of the free market. What they're interested in is control, pure and simple - and price fixing is one very obvious, and very effective, method of maintaining control. If you can no longer enforce price fixing then you lose one of your more important tools for controlling not only the theaters that run your movies, but also of moviegoers.
How's that? It's really very, very simple: the higher the price the less movies the consumer can afford. Because the consumer can only see x number of movies, advertising can be used to 'herd' the consumer into spending his limited movie income on movies the MPAA chooses to push. The higher the price, the more limited the options, the more likely the consumer will spend his money on something being heavily promoted by the MPAA.
Lower the price and the consumer can now make more movie choices. The consumer, blast his heathen soul, might decide to use some of this disposable income to see movies *not* promoted by the MPAA - perhaps smaller, independent films. The consumer, that communist scumbag, might actually begin to believe that he has a more options - he might even take some of that 'movie money' and spend it on something else! After all, if all he wants to see are two films a month, and they're now half the price that they were, he might spend the other half of the money on something radical, like a book.
Bad, bad consumer!
In any event, remember that the MPAA is at the top of the heap. Like any organization that's king of the hill, change is a threat to the status quo and one that must be quashed regardless of the possible upside. To the invested, change is evil and must be prevented at all costs.
This particular change takes some power out of the hands of the MPAA and puts it into the hands of the consumer. Despite the fact that it would most likely increase overall profits, the loss of power is simply unacceptable and cannot be tolerated. Price-fixing *must* be maintained.
For organizations like the RIAA, the MPAA, or monopolies like Microsoft, profit takes a big back seat to power. The free market is of no interest whatsoever to these folks; in fact, the less free, the better.
Max
My god carries a hammer. Your god died nailed to a tree. Any questions?
Milton Keynes was the first place in Britain to build a multiplex cinema.. The Point opened in 1985, but (I have heard) is having to close as it is has been unable to compete against the new Xscape cinema/indoor ski/health centre.
Incidentally, Milton Keynes is also home to probably the world's only herd of concrete cows.
"E pur si muove!" - attributed to Galileo Galilei, 1564-1642
To be fair, they share the lot with the Multiplex that is part of the same building, but when I asked managment "Where are the cameras for the parking lot?", they said "The landlord won't allow them." I called the landlord and they said "What? They can have cameras if they want. It's in their land lease". Kinda soured me on the whole joint.
psxndc
The emacs religion: to be saved, control excess.
Why? The MPAA is NOT in the business of making and distributing movies. The have never made a single commercial film in their entire existence. The MPAA is an organization of movie studios with the aim of promoting their interests. Movie studios are the ones who are in this business, and there a lot of them. More than one. Really. When's the last time you saw a movie that was brought to you by the MPAA? This is like saying the OpenGL consortium has a monopoly on OpenGL business.
Once again, Slashdot shows it's extreme ignorance about subjects not related to computers.
http://www.mpaa.org/about/
nah sorry i'm all for cheaper ticket prices - but hell, go to the prince charles cinema in soho if you want cheap prices. most films there are only £2 per screening, and you can buy tickets at the box office - no need to go out and buy a printer just so you can print out your internet issued bar code.
bollocks to that.
also, i am in bulgaria right now and paid a grand BLV5 (= approx £1.80) to see the matrix reloaded, in english with bulgarian subtitles, in a pretty decent cinema. in the UK the cinemas in leicester square charge around £10 = £12 per ticket last time i looked, and you have been able to buy them online too for years. only you don't have to print out a stupid bar code, you just turn up, stick your credit card in the slot and it spits out your tickets. incidentally this is how BAs online flight tickets work and it rocks. you buy your tickets online and just turn up to the airport, stick your card in the slot and use the touch screen to choose your seats, answer the basic security questions and it spits out your boarding passes. then you just hand over your bags at a special desk reserved for e-ticket holders and bingo you are off. takes less than 5 minutes usually.
all easycinema will do it force real cinemas to cut costs and that's a good thing for consumers. but only kids or the homeless would put up with their special brand of easyservice. on given this willl be a staff-free cinema i expect the kids and the homeless will get on just fine - trading glue and drugs for wood alcohol</opinion>
I used to have a better sig than this, but I got tired of it
If they are going to run theatres as they do the airline company, it doesn't matter if the seats are cheap. Cheap is still better than Zero, which is exactly what the cinema industry seems to get on 80% of their seats. The actual, base line, cost of showing a movie, or flying a plane remains the same no matter the number of occupied seats .. THAT's why this will work.
.. some will, but certainly not all!
/klang
Don't think that EVERY seat is going for 20p
Actually, I would say that this easyCinema idea can be used to battle DivX versions of movies .. I mean, would you bother to download a crappy version of a movie you could go see for next to nothing?
/klang
Stelios uses some rather cool software to sell seats on airlines, internetcafe seats. If you book well in advance for a movie for a tuesday afternoon - you'll get it for pennies. It's not unheard of for people to do shorthaul air travel in the UK for less than 5 pounds (about 8 US dollars). If you book lastminute for a popular timeslot, i.e. friday night, then there's a good chance that the price will be closer to 'normal' prices. all it is a basic trading exchange - as an event/flight/film gets more popular the price goes up. Stelios has been really successful - he knows that even though 40% of the audience will be paying 20% of 'normal' ticket prices, others will have paid more AND he'll have 80% full cinemas. The average yield for the flight/movie whatever is never published, but I imagine it is higher than selling 20% of your seats at full price. He is the son of a greek shipping magnate - and 'borrowed' a couple of million off his father to start the airline in the nineties and is now a very wealthy man in his own right. I think the trick is to buy film seats WELL in advance spread over a couple of days and then choose which viewing to go to nearer the time and tout the tickets at the door - after all, you can't do that with airline seats because they are named. rd
easyJet works because, for the large majority of people (i.e. everybody who has been on a plane at least once before and aren't in >= Business Class), flights are an enormous pain in the ass and only serve as a means to an end (get to where they want to go). Their pricing model is reasonably transparent and you know what you're getting in terms of service (not a lot).
Whereas the traditional carriers have hideously arcane and obscure pricing models and clearly are charing way over the odds for flights. The cats out of the bag on that one.
Transpose this to the cinema industry and you find that it doesn't work. People *like* the cinema experience; the upturn in cinema attendance after the collapse in the late 80s (at least in the UK) was due in part to the far higher quality of cinema experience (pleasant environment, better seats etc etc). Going to the cinema is not just a means to an end, it's an end in itself.
In any case, 'going to the cinema' is right up there in the top 5% of 'impulse activities'. No one is going to book 10 days in advance for a film. Personally speaking, I can seldom decide which film I'm going to see until 10 minutes before it starts. :)
Please remain calm, there is no reason to pani... wait, where are you all going?
First a point of order and then an opinion...
:-P
At the risk of pissing in the wind here... the answer to quite a few questions that are above this are in the article.
Those confused by the viability of the business model: NOTE: Not *all* the tickets will cost 20p. In fact, probably relatively few. As the article says, you could actually pay 5 pounds, which is more than my local cinema charges now. Sure, the tickets will be on average cheaper but this 20p thing is clearly an advertising gimmick. And as such it seems to be working so far.
I wonder how succesful this will be. Flying, if the experience as a whole is reduced in quality is fine; its a functional activity getting from A-to-B. (EasyJet=no "free" inflight snack or drink, no "free" papers, the crews do the cleaning etc, you are herded on, you are herder off) You don't fly for the sake of it. Going to the cinema on the otherhand is about more than the film itself. Depending on how far corners are cut (maintenance, technical specs of equipment, cleanliness etc.) it might be a bit unappealing as something you might do for the sake of it.
Personally I welcome this if only because I can grandly goto a more expensive cinema round the corner and be able to watch in peace without rowdy teenagers annoying me. All for a few extra quid. Seems like a bargain to me. Everyone will be happy
Plays violent online games as: Nerfherder76
I am a foreign student currently studying abroad in Europe, meaning that probably I represent one of easy*'s biggest demographics. I (and all my friends) almost always fly easyJet to travel, we rent easyCar to drive to France or Andorra, and we check our e-mail abroad at easyInternetCafe. easy is the real thing--it's cheap as hell, especially if you book really early. On the other hand the "customer experience" leaves a lot to be desired. For example, in an effort to cut costs even further, easyInternetCafe literally fired all their employees except for about 15 at the home office. No actual easyInternetCafe employees, work in the easyInternetCafes. Which is at once dumbfounding and frustrating. If your computer crashes or the machine eats your money when you try to buy time, well, you're fucked. No recourse. Lots of the computers are broken, people leave their trash laying around, there are always wierdos looking at really sick, graphic porn, and worse, the cafes are unsafe. Twice now I have seen people brazenly mugged, in broad daylight, in nearly packed easyInternetCafes. Similar experiences on easyJet; they farmed out the personnel contract (at least here in Spain) to some company named EuroHandling, whose ticket agents are assholes and unwilling to help you out in any way, especially if you arrive after 40 minutes before departure time. So I'm a little skeptical of easyCinema, even though I'd probably give it a whirl if it came to a town near me. But sentences like "All we ask is that you don't leave any litter behind" sounds like a sweet way of saying, "we're not paying for janitors, please don't trash our theaters." Personally, I'll gladly pay the extra 2 to avoid sitting on someone else's half-eaten nachos, but hey, that's me.
I think there is a world market for maybe five personal web logs.
concessions £3.50, members £3.50, adults £4.50
Weekday after 6pm:
concessions £5.00, members £4.50, adults £5.50
Weekends, Friday after 6pm:
members £4.50, adults £5.50
This is for York City Screen, a Picturehouse Cinema, that shows lots of non-mainstream European and American movies, but also show blockbusters like the Matrix and Lord of the Rings.
Not too much of a rip-off; London prices are exorbitant though, granted. Mostly to do with property pricing I expect.
Though funnily, for ethnic food, London tends to be *cheaper* than north England.
Michel
Fedora Project Contribut
I am not the type to watch a movie in the first couple of weeks, so when I do get around to seeing one, the place is usually over 60% empty, sometimes even 90%. Dynamic pricing would allow them to fill seats when movies are no longer "hot", while still charging a fairly high price for first-week blockbusters.
It really makes no sense that all movies at a given cinema are for the same price, whether it is an opening day blockbuster or a mediocre film in its last week. It is nothing but price-fixing by the motion picture cartels that causes ticket prices to defy the laws of supply and demand.
This one guy's mistake is that he could increase his profits by selling popcorn and other food and beverages, given that the lower ticket prices would increase the number of people and the amount they are willing to spend on refreshments. Concession stands are profit centers, not costs to be minimized.
---------
There is inferior bacteria on the interior of your posterior.
I think this article was referenced on slashdot a while ago.
The question is, how long until dynamic pricing permeates more of our markets? Dell tried this for a while with fluctuating prices on its website depending on the demand. People got pissed because they could buy a laptop one minute and the next it was $50 cheaper. Coke was thinking about the same thing, but got slammed by the public when it announced that it was investigating ways to "automatically raise prices for its drinks in hot weather." The article poses the question though: "Consider what the reaction might have been to this headline: "Coke testing machine that automatically discounts prices in cool weather.""
Being an Econ major I get frustrated with supply and demand curves because the truth is, they don't really exist... not in a measurable way at least. Its impossible for me to go out into the marketplace and know the exact equilibrium price for a given quantity supplied. However, we are closer now in history than ever before to being able to manage real time data, especially over the web, in order to dynamically change prices to reach these equilibrium prices. In many instances its just bringing the scalper's market straight to the distributor -- and while everyone complains when you pay $100 for a $50 concert ticket, few see the other side of the coin where you could pay $2 for a theater seat that will otherwise go unused -- however both are circumstances of the free market (surplus and shortage).
I plan to open a chain of storefront DIY cinemas. They'll be rentable in 2 hour chunks, seat 20-50, and have state of the art video projection and sound. You rent it and bring your own DVD. Who you invite, whether you charge, and what you show is up to you.
--- Yx3 = Delilah ---
AFAIK film distributors charge based on a fixed ticket price, I am not sure exactly what that is but I think it is around 6.50 or 7.00 and the theaters are allowed to charge whatever they want, so long as they pay the agreed upon percentage of the preset ticket price. So if a theater charges 4.00 for a ticket they will still be required to pay the distributor like 60% of 6.50. The percentage varies but the base ticket price will remain the same. If this is the case, which I am fairly certain that it is, then I do not understand why this would be an issue unless easyCinema is only willing to pay based on the actually purchase price of each individual ticket. Granted, they would have to charge a much higher price closer to show time to make up the difference.
And another note, easyCinema is not going to have a concession stand, while that does seem to be the model for how they do business - require as few people as humanly possible. Concession stands have such a large profit margin, its not even funny. For example a 35 lb bag of popcorn kernels costs about 10.00 (it is about the size of a medium size bag of dog food) and then a theater can turn around and sell a (large) bag of popped popcorn for 5.00 (or even more, sometimes). A bag of kernels will yeild well over 100 (large) popcorns, so, you do the math. It really does not seem smart to me to discontinue the concession stand all together, maybe things are different in the UK though
"Alcohol, cause of, and solution to, all of life's problems" -Homer Simpson
Cinema Safety and Technical Officer (salary £14k)
based in Milton Keynes.
Main Accountabilities
Emergency evacuation warden, able to demonstrate knowledge of and carry out the Company's emergency evacuation procedures.
Maintain and operate projection and sound equipment.
Make up/break down films. Display "show" reels in accordance with procedure scheduling plans.
Install, upgrade, repair, swap-out and troubleshoot PC's.
Maintain and troubleshoot vending machines, including testing, resetting and swapping-out of internal components, changing print heads and rolls.
Configure, manage and troubleshoot Access Control System software.
Manage, maintain and troubleshoot turnstile barriers, door keypad and local area network.
Monitor and troubleshoot ISP connection and UPS devices.
Manage all warranty, returns and local third party support issues and source and maintain stock of IT consumables and spares.
To act as Safety Supervisor in charge of carrying out a possible evacuation as required when not rostered on other duties.
To ensure compliance with the Conditions of the cinema licence (attached).
Monitor day-to-day operation of cinema (staff, cleaning, turnaround time, premises and call centre) and reports to head office as appropriate.
Knowledge/Skills/Experience
Essential:
Existing projection and management experience required.
Perfectionist with eye and ear for excellence.
Team oriented.
Competencies
Confident and positive Team orientated.
Achievement orientated ('Can do' attitude).
Reliable.
Flexible.
Enjoys persuading/motivating.
Success driven.
Sounds like they want you to run the entire cinema single handed, for 14k a year. Who fancies doing that job? Can they find people with experiance in Management, Computing, Telephone systems, Turnstiles, Vending Machines, Internet Services, Customer Relations, Customer Safety, Film projection systems, and splicing together the advertising?
They want to run these places with only about 3 staff on the premises.
Call Centre Operator/ Usher (salary £10k)
based in Milton Keynes.
Main Accountabilities
Emergency evacuation warden, able to demonstrate knowledge of and carry out the Company's emergency evacuation procedures.
Sell cinema admissions through the onsite call centre and reply to customer enquiries over the web.
Maintain the cleanliness of the cinema, including the auditoriums between showings.
The people who arn't doing the technical things have to be both call centre operators and cleaners?
Sounds like exploitation to me
http://www.easygroup.co.uk/easyCinema/jobs.html
"Taligent is still pure vapor. Maybe they'll be the last who jumps up on Openstep... "
The original BBC article has been edited since its first post and no longer talks about the problems faced by easyCinema. However, there is more writeup on easyCinema's problems in a separate report. The report states that in the UK, the studios take up around 90% of the box office proceeds. This practise was ruled upon in 1994 in Britain as "reasonable". It looks like for Stelios's venture to succeed bigtime, he needs to have the studios change their way they recuperate their costs ie with fixed prices for the cinema's. Fixed pricing though puts more of the movie flop expense on to the cinemas, who would have to become more careful as to which movies they pick. I doubt he will have success with fixed cost movie reels from the studios.
Still, he has managed to swing a deal with Sony (Columbia Tristar) to pay 1.30GBP (~$2.00) per person for two of their films.
I think the guy is going to have a very tough uphill struggle to make this succeed. The French film financing board, the CNC are looking closely at their success.