Slashdot Mirror
fvwm Turns Ten
Some Old Dude writes "fvwm, F* Virtual Window Manager, is celebrating its 10th birthday in a few days. This is the window manager I used when cutting my Linux teeth back in the last millennium, and the one I still use today (after trying many newer ones). If it's been a while since you've seen what fvwm can do, check out its features and screenshots."
I was surprised to find twm when I installed X11 on OS X.
They released a new version today QUOTE: http://freshmeat.net/projects/fvwm/ The changes in this release are as follows: All single letter variables are deprecated, and multiletter variables are provided. The NoWarp menu position hint option works with root menus too. WindowListFunc is executed within a window context, so a prefix "WindowId $0" is no longer needed in its definition, and it is advised to remove it from user configs. FvwmEvent executes all window related events within a window context, so PassId is not needed anymore, and all prefixes "WindowId $0" may be removed from user event handlers.
Idiot.
Unless all of the choices suck.
Life in Orange County
Wanna grow, i wanna be, be a DEBASER!!!
What does F* stand for?
Why don't FVWM developers focus on something more modern, like GNOME, KDE or XPDE? Especially the latter, since it focuses on "duplicating Windows XP interface down to the pixel point". I've always maintained that Linux needs to be virtually indentical to Windows in feel, down to the DOS prompt drive letters to make the techies feel at home. How else are you going to see mass adoption?
10 years old and faster than lightening. Gotta love it.
Update: "Fist Sport" explained. (05/17/01)
---
---
It has come to my attention that the entire Linux community is a hotbed of so called 'alternative sexuality,' which includes anything from hedonistic orgies to homosexuality to pedophilia.
What better way of demonstrating this than by looking at the hidden messages contained within the names of some of Linux's most outspoken advocates:
Linus Torvalds is an anagram of SLIT ANUS OR VD 'L,' clearly referring to himself by the first initial.
Richard M. Stallman , spokespervert for the Gaysex is Not Unusual 'movement' is an anagram of MANS CRAM THRILL AD.
Alan Cox is barely an anagram of ANAL COX which is just so filthy and unchristian it unnerves me.
I'm sure that Eric S. Raymond, composer of the satanic homosexual propaganda diatribe The Cathedral and the Bizarre, [Buy At Amazon] is probably an anagram of something queer, but we don't need to look that far as we know he's always shoving a gun up some poor little boy's rectum. Update: Eric S. Raymond is actually an anagram for SECONDARY RIM and CORD IN MY ARSE. It just goes to show you that he is indeed queer.
Update the Second: It is also documented that Evil Sicko Gaymond is responsible for a nauseating piece of code called Fetchmail, which is obviously sinister sodomite slang for "Felch Male" - a disgusting practise. For those not in the know, "felching" is the act performed by two perverts wherein one sucks their own post-coital ejaculate out of the other's rectum. In fact, it appears that the dirty Linux faggots set out to undermine the good Republican institution of e-mail, turning it into "e-male."
As far as Richard "(cock)Master" Stallman goes, that filthy fudge-packer was actually quoted on leftist commie propaganda site Salon.com as saying the following:
And this isn't a made up troll bullshit either! He actually stated this tripe, which makes it obvious that he is trying to politely say that he's a flaming homo slut!
Speaking about "flaming," who better to point out as a filthy chutney ferret than Slashdot's very own self-confessed pederast Jon Katz. Although an obvious deviant anagram cannot be found from his name, he has already confessed, nay boasted of the homosexual perversion of corrupting the innocence of young children. To quote from the article linked:
Is this why you were touching your penis in
Nostalgically twm would be more cool. fvwm, fvwm2, fvwm95, icewm, sawfish are the 'other' window managers. The big ones are kde and gnome and friends.
So tonight I will celebrate by switching from icewm to fvwm for a day.
"Give orange me give eat orange me eat orange give me eat orange give me you." -Nim Chimpsky
I forgot to buy it a gift. I'm so screwed.
and a catchy name too. It really rolls right off of your tongue about like a sawblade. ;)
Slashdot has an interview with security legend Fyodor, admin of the famed insecure.org and author of the world's most affordable port scanner, nmap.
The best part of this interview is that Slashdot does not often interview criminals. Many Slashdot readers know that Fyodor used his tool to illegally attack a college student in 2002, for his personal amusement but also to the benefit of Slashdot's admins. For those that don't know the story, I will present a brief summary.
*Those individuals interested in independently verifying the facts presented in this article should skip to the "Verification" section near the end.
Sdem had created a hoax account entitled electricmonk, and used it to post this comment pronouncing that we was actually a cute Linux booth babe. "electricmonk" left an email at Yahoo and encouraged Slashdot readers to get in touch.
Fyodor proceeded to do so, boasting of his previous exploits with women he'd met online. He was even helpful enough to attach a picture.
This is where the story turns ugly. Sdem responded with a truthful email, in which he advised Fyodor that the whole thing was a hoax. After that, sdem posted a log of his exploits to sid=20721 (trolltalk), mentioning that he had tricked Fyodor and referring to many of the biters as "wankers". This apparently really set Fyodor off, and he began to plot criminal revenge.
First, Fyodor dug through insecure.org's referrer logs to find what IP address had requested the picture of Fyodor & his paramour. Using this information (and the logged User-Agent), Fyodor knew from the get-go Sdem's IP address and O/S. From this point, he launched nmap against Sdem's box and was greeted with the holy grail of sorts for BlackHats: an open X windows server on port 6000.
Sdem had been running an X-windows server for Windows on his Win2k box. Fyodor was able to bypass the authentication on the X-windows server and used the X-windows server to take complete screen captures of Sdem's machine whilst sniffing and recording keystrokes.
Fyodor proceeded to take hours worth of screen captures, including information on a "secret troll irc server" that sdem was using. Fyodor wrote a detailed writeup of what he observed, including an irc robot used on the server to detect new Slashdot stories for the purpose of early posting. Fyodor also mined and posted as much information about Sdem as he could find, including his real name and contact information. Jamie McCarthy used this illegally obtained information shortly after it was posted to log on to the irc server, monitor the bot, and modify Slashdot in order to break the story monitor.
Fyodor even submitted his "troll hunting" story to Slashdot, though it was rejected.
After he was done hacking Sdem's computer, Fyodor posted his screen captures and a log of his breakin to www.insecure.org/tmp/trolls. The content was removed 24 hours later. He went on to boast in sid=20721 about his "troll hunting finale". While sid 20721 is regularly cleaned, a cache of Fyodor's boasting about his illegal break-in is available here. Very interesting reading.
So, while Fyodor's interview is no doubt very interesting, I think that, as an accomplished (and due to the lack of prosecution very successful) criminal, the nature of questions given to Fyodor in the interview don't do justice to the type of expertise this man has in illegally penetrating computers across state lines and getting away with it. I'm sure that many companies would like to have a man of this caliber at their disposal in order to infiltrate and destroy their competitor's IT infrastructure.
Of course, no sane person would use this man's software without compiling it from inspected source, given his history. Fortunately the folks at Redhat pore over his code with a fine toothed comb before including it in their distribution, so if you've ever wanted to peer into the mind of a madman, I encourage you to take a look at Redhat's copy of nmap.
Also if anyone has a cached copy o
fvwm looks like ass. IceWM is much much better, and it includes a taskbar and nice interface. Please spare me the battle cries of the "benefits of lynx and twm"... fvwm... just... sucks.
fvwm and tvwm are two great window managers espiecally when you're cutting edge gnome/kde/fluxbox/etc... refuses to work, and you just have to get something done graphicly. I know i've fallen back on them more then once. That coupled with the fact that they're so damn small, keeps them on my my small hard drive.
Slashdot has an interview [slashdot.org] with security legend Fyodor [kitetoa.com], admin of the famed insecure.org [insecure.org] and author of the world's most affordable port scanner, nmap [insecure.org].
The best part of this interview is that Slashdot does not often interview criminals. Many Slashdot readers know that Fyodor used his tool to illegally attack a college student in 2002, for his personal amusement but also to the benefit of Slashdot's admins. For those that don't know the story, I will present a brief summary.
*Those individuals interested in independently verifying the facts presented in this article should skip to the "Verification" section near the end.
Sdem [slashdot.org] had created a hoax account entitled electricmonk [slashdot.org], and used it to post this comment [slashdot.org] pronouncing that we was actually a cute Linux booth babe. "electricmonk" left an email at Yahoo and encouraged Slashdot readers to get in touch.
Fyodor proceeded to do so, boasting of his previous exploits with women he'd met online. He was even helpful enough to attach a picture.
This is where the story turns ugly. Sdem responded with a truthful email, in which he advised Fyodor that the whole thing was a hoax. After that, sdem posted a log of his exploits to sid=20721 (trolltalk), mentioning that he had tricked Fyodor and referring to many of the biters as "wankers". This apparently really set Fyodor off, and he began to plot criminal revenge.
First, Fyodor dug through insecure.org's referrer logs to find what IP address had requested the picture of Fyodor & his paramour. Using this information (and the logged User-Agent), Fyodor knew from the get-go Sdem's IP address and O/S. From this point, he launched nmap against Sdem's box and was greeted with the holy grail of sorts for BlackHats: an open X windows server on port 6000.
Sdem had been running an X-windows server for Windows on his Win2k box. Fyodor was able to bypass the authentication on the X-windows server and used the X-windows server to take complete screen captures of Sdem's machine whilst sniffing and recording keystrokes.
Fyodor proceeded to take hours worth of screen captures, including information on a "secret troll irc server" that sdem was using. Fyodor wrote a detailed writeup of what he observed, including an irc robot used on the server to detect new Slashdot stories for the purpose of early posting. Fyodor also mined and posted as much information about Sdem as he could find, including his real name and contact information. Jamie McCarthy used this illegally obtained information shortly after it was posted to log on to the irc server, monitor the bot, and modify Slashdot in order to break the story monitor.
Fyodor even submitted his "troll hunting" story to Slashdot, though it was rejected.
After he was done hacking Sdem's computer, Fyodor posted his screen captures and a log of his breakin to www.insecure.org/tmp/trolls [insecure.org]. The content was removed 24 hours later. He went on to boast in sid=20721 about his "troll hunting finale". While sid 20721 is regularly cleaned, a cache of Fyodor's boasting about his illegal break-in is available here [trollaxor.com]. Very interesting reading.
So, while Fyodor's interview is no doubt very interesting, I think that, as an accomplished (and due to the lack of prosecution very successful) criminal, the nature of questions given to Fyodor in the interview don't do justice to the type of expertise thi
F* yes! Happy F*'ing birthday! (The BSD devel made me do it).
Really, thanks and congrats to the developers of this great WM: this was my first Linux non-CLI, and it remains my favorite.
If a man's character is to be abused there's nobody like a relative to do the business. -Thackeray, William
After trying out kde, gnome and xfce, I went back to fvwm and couldn't be happer with my current setup. The only thing on my desktop when I login is a single xterm. I can launch anything I need from there, but I also spent some time to customize my root menu (right-click on desktop) to give me quick access to the apps and scripts I use the most (including xterm -- I forgot to put that in their the first time around... didn't notice it until I accidently closed my one and only xterm -- oops!)
REAL men use the console. For those forced to use those silly window gadgets by their PHBs, there's NAWM: Not a Window Manager. Non-reparenting, non-eye candy, pure window management functionality and nothing more. Check it out.
In a real emergency, we would have all fled in terror, and you would not have been notified.
my hypercard stack "Escape From The Dark Cassel [sic]" turned 12 today... can we celebrate that too?
News.com reports that AOL ordered Nullsoft to remove their new collaboration/file sharing tool Waste from their website. This isn't the first time this has happened, either. In 2000, AOL ordered Nullsoft to remove gnutella from their website. Fortunately they released the program under the GPL, so the source is still available.
--Pat / zippy@cs.brandeis.edu
<AOL>Me too</AOL^>
"Mouse? Oh, you mean the thing I use to figure out what xterm I want to type in."
(Cripes, even the FVWM screenshots on the almost-slashdotted page look almost too glitzy for my tastes ;-)
I currently have a graduate student who is working part-time on a rewrite of fvwm in CWEB, the literate programming language. It's helped to reveal several bugs and algorithmic inefficiencies in fvwm that would have otherwise remained hidden.
As a followup project, he and a group of fellow graduate students plan to implement the X11 protocol in a similar manner.
I never recall windows managers, because I OE±too busy failing college by playing xpilot!
YAP YAP WE'RE YOUR GARDEN-VARIETY DUMB DYKES THE PRESIDENT IS A BUTTHEAD!!!! HEHE
Slashdot has an interview [slashdot.org] [slashdot.org] with security legend Fyodor [kitetoa.com] [kitetoa.com], admin of the famed insecure.org [insecure.org] [insecure.org] and author of the world's most affordable port scanner, nmap [insecure.org] [insecure.org].
The best part of this interview is that Slashdot does not often interview criminals. Many Slashdot readers know that Fyodor used his tool to illegally attack a college student in 2002, for his personal amusement but also to the benefit of Slashdot's admins. For those that don't know the story, I will present a brief summary.
*Those individuals interested in independently verifying the facts presented in this article should skip to the "Verification" section near the end.
Sdem [slashdot.org] [slashdot.org] had created a hoax account entitled electricmonk [slashdot.org] [slashdot.org], and used it to post this comment [slashdot.org] [slashdot.org] pronouncing that we was actually a cute Linux booth babe. "electricmonk" left an email at Yahoo and encouraged Slashdot readers to get in touch.
Fyodor proceeded to do so, boasting of his previous exploits with women he'd met online. He was even helpful enough to attach a picture.
This is where the story turns ugly. Sdem responded with a truthful email, in which he advised Fyodor that the whole thing was a hoax. After that, sdem posted a log of his exploits to sid=20721 (trolltalk), mentioning that he had tricked Fyodor and referring to many of the biters as "wankers". This apparently really set Fyodor off, and he began to plot criminal revenge.
First, Fyodor dug through insecure.org's referrer logs to find what IP address had requested the picture of Fyodor & his paramour. Using this information (and the logged User-Agent), Fyodor knew from the get-go Sdem's IP address and O/S. From this point, he launched nmap against Sdem's box and was greeted with the holy grail of sorts for BlackHats: an open X windows server on port 6000.
Sdem had been running an X-windows server for Windows on his Win2k box. Fyodor was able to bypass the authentication on the X-windows server and used the X-windows server to take complete screen captures of Sdem's machine whilst sniffing and recording keystrokes.
Fyodor proceeded to take hours worth of screen captures, including information on a "secret troll irc server" that sdem was using. Fyodor wrote a detailed writeup of what he observed, including an irc robot used on the server to detect new Slashdot stories for the purpose of early posting. Fyodor also mined and posted as much information about Sdem as he could find, including his real name and contact information. Jamie McCarthy used this illegally obtained information shortly after it was posted to log on to the irc server, monitor the bot, and modify Slashdot in order to break the story monitor.
Fyodor even submitted his "troll hunting" story to Slashdot, though it was rejected.
After he was done hacking Sdem's computer, Fyodor posted his screen captures and a log of his breakin to www.insecure.org/tmp/trolls [insecure.org] [insecure.org]. The content was removed 24 hours later. He went on to boast in sid=20721 about his "troll hunting finale". While sid 20721 is regularly cleaned, a cache of Fyodor's boasting about his illegal break-in is available here [trollaxor.com] [trollaxor.com]. Very interesting reading.
So, while Fyodor's interview is no doubt very interesting, I think that, as an accomplished (and due to the lack of prosecution very successful) criminal, the nature of questions given to Fyodor in the interview don't do justice to the type of expertise this man has in illegally penetrating computers across state lines and getting away with it. I'm sure that many companies would like to have a man of this caliber at their disposal in order to infiltrate and destroy their competitor's IT infrastructure.
Of course, no sane person would use this man's software without compiling it from inspected source, given his history. Fo
They don't look professional like motif or like www.fresco.org .
To answer a question my smartass roommate asked... yes I do have a nice background "wallpaper" image... I'm not so hardcore that I use a solid color or worse yet, greyweave as my root image.
(Bonus points to those that have mucked around with X11 enough to know what greyweave is).
or tab completion, or inline editing, etc... Real men use SysV R3 /bin/sh on an old Wyse 60. For a real trip, try the Mashey Shell (predates the Bourne Shell).
"I'd rather be a lightning rod than a seismometer." -Ken Kesey
Blazing fast and highly programmable. The only time I need to touch the mouse in fvwm is to click a link in Mozilla. It's too bad RedHat DROPPED it from its CD distribution. Grrrr...
This is like a "Happy friggin' birthday" greeting. "It's your birthday, here's the Slashdot effect for your birthday." And they can't effectively return the gift if they don't like it.
________________________________________________
suwain_2
The author might have forgot what his acronym stands for but some people remember the original announcement.
There are 2 kinds of people in this world: Those who write in decimal and those who don't
I'll wager you never had fourteen shipwrecked mariners tossing about in it, or never been used to plug up a leak on a ship.
Mr. Gates, the time you spend hating people that are cooler than you...
fvwm, twm...
Can you say "butt-fscking-ugly?"
Wow, crap this embarrassingly vile, that makes Windows look downright stylin' shouldn't be allowd to besmirch the good name of X11.
...If only Apple would open source their user interface... Microsoft would be history. (Esp. if the Mac version of Office ran with it)
Fvwm1 is great! It doesn't chew up precious pixels like the so-call modern integrated GUIs. I've been running fvwm on FreeBSD for a decade now with no reason to switch.
Twm probably has some nostalgia value amongst people who rolled their own X11 back in the day, but fvwm used to be the default for most Linux systems, so it's got plenty of nostalgia value of its own. Plus, it's still going strong; twm is all-but-dead, while fvwm still has a large community of enthusiastic users and developers. Including me. I keep trying out all these newer WMs, and they always seem to be missing some essential feature that I've come to depend on over the years, and/or they're massive, bloated monstrosities that don't do noticably more than my old workhorse.
It loads fasts, never leaves RAM, and stops in a blink, and keyboard short-cuts are easy to implement. Anything else is bloat.
Anything you can do I can do faster.
The pager in FVWM is the epitome of how a pager should be.
FVWM was the first WM I ever used (on SunOS back in the early 90's). I absolutely hated the pager, but I didn't know how to turn it off. After about 2 weeks of it, I can't live without it now. All of my boxes, OSX (VirtualDesktop), Windows(JSPager), Linux(crappy KDE pager), they all have one now. But, none of them even come close to fvwm's.
Need Free Juniper/NetScreen Support? JuniperForum
(rant)
Why on earth did RedHat take FVWM out of its distrubution? Like many long time Linux users, FVWM has been my window manager for years. It's small, fast, flexible, and infinitely configurable - with three CDs of space for RedHat 9, you'd think they'd be able to find a couple of megs for FVWM. Even their "switchdesk" utility still wants FVWM as an option.
Taking FVWM out of the standard distribution is just plain dumb, not to mention insulting to many Linux users. How many years was FVWM the default window manager for RedHat? I've been using FVWM for years on RedHat, but now I have to change to a more "modern" window manager because they can't spare 3 megs on their distribution CDs? Grrr.
(/rant)
"Good people drink good beer"
ASDF
Fvwm was nice back then. But even if you want a small, light-weight window manager, there are probably better choices than fvwm these days: Oroborus, Blackbox, IceWM, Ion, to name just a few. Their code tends to be cleaner and their configuration and code tends to be more modular.
Finally. After 10 years of being written by illiterates, it's about time.
I started with fvwm years ago and still use it because I haven't found anything else that easily supports a scrollable viewport: I don't like to flip between seperate desktops, I like one big one that I scroll around on using the keyboard or mouse.
I wish I could find a good graphical configuration utility for it that uses straight gtk, though (not tcl).
To this day, I can't part with that file - don't even know if it still works in the latest version. I haven't used fvwm in 2 years, but I know that file is in my $HOME on every linux box I work on... just in case.
nostalgia...
From the website...
Partial list of features new to 2.5.x:
Improved decoration code (no flickering anymore)
GUI's on *nix are sad.
two empty 3x3 desktops (except for a sticky xconsole). all important applications have keybindings. my idea of a minimal desktop. i just hate to have to take my hands off the keyboard to reach for the mouse.
I don't really care what other people think. Ever since I bagain using Linux i've used fvwm. First because it was the standard in SuSE, then because it was the best. You get the freedom you want, and the flexibility you want, it only takes a few hours of learning...
y'all rmrmeber that? It actually didi a very good job of imitiating windows. It came as the default wm on RH 5.2 back in the day. UI was like LLinux has a start button. wow. And netscape. it's jsut like windows, except different. I rebooted into win95 to play a game later and didn't use linux for another year or so, but it was fy forst view of linux.
Bravo! A fine troll!
I wonder what the world will be like when Gnome or KDE turn ten! Right now it's impossible to predict what things will be like in one year, let alone ten!
:)
640 Gb is enough for anyone, eh?
But after every WM I've used, I'll still always go back to Fluxbox... I'm using the developer release, and while it can crash from time to time, it's proving to be shaping up extremely nicely.
I am a filthy pirate.
h3h when i'm on mah LUNIKS boxen, i like to use the fvwm becase thts what the le37 h4xer useS! a4nd im a fAg! lolololololol
Here's the one I'm using right now: .fvwm2rc file .png image in Opera 6.12, and press the "F11" key for fullscreen. On a 14" monitor, it will appear as if you are actually running fvwm, with this file, and you can say "Hey, I formatted your HDD, put Mandrake on it!" Only thing, none of the buttons work, so the joke comes to a quick end for the observant.
.fvwm2rc on the internet, I have to say that this is not my latest .fvwm2rc, as working on these is somewhat of a hobby and I'm always trying to improve it.
.fvwm2rc for a user account:
my
Here is a screenshot:
screenshot for above fvwm2rc
Here's a neat trick: Put that
Like most folks that post their
Here is a
click here
That one gives an entirely different-looking setup, designed for those who do not have root access. As you can see, I like what fvwm can do, and try to learn more about it when I can. Examples posted on the internet help a lot.
fvwm runs on me machine right here
Both of them offer several different styles/appearances and can be programmed to look most any other way. The KDE and GNOME technologies don't really constrain how they look. At a minimum, you should clarify whether you are criticizing the default look/feel on some particular installation or whether it is that you don't like any of the alternatives that ship with some distribution. In any case, my KDE desktop looks great but it doesn't use any of the installation defaults.
Nice try though... Of course, prof. Knuth doesn't take graduate students anymore, and if he did, they wouldn't be rewriting fvwm...
I don't like the look of Gnome and KDE . Does anyone else share my thoughts ?
Yes. But then, I'm a Windowmaker freak, and Not To Be Trusted.
--saint
I don't agree. I like the Unix desktop at its most Unixy - clean, efficient andminimal. No need to waste pixels catering for an idiot when this desktop is the interface for a computer professional. But if I wanted to waste some pixels, and I have in the past, I'd waste them on stuff that looks cool to my aesthetic, not what looks reassuring to some marketer trying to soothe the average user.
If you want to understand the "real" window managers, like fvwm, Afterstep, etc., realize three things:
I don't like CDE very much, but CDE is clean and technical-looking in a way that Windows isn't. Almost everyone would happily go from CDE to KDE or Gnome, but I'd feel some loss of Unix flavor.
(I've ignored the fact that fvwm works with Gnome - you could have the fvwm coolness and the Gnome user-friendliness, I guess.)
I'm currently running fluxbox at work and AfterStep at home. I like a lot of what I see in the fvwm release - it seems the good window managers are converging and adopting the best features.
I know there will always be a small group that thinks as I do, but I'm afraid we're not communicating very well. Tons of newcomers are pouring into Linux, and most of them have only seen Microsoft Windows. Therefore they're inclined to view the desktop through a Microsoft lens, even as they criticize Microsoft.
I don't like Microsoft software. I find it disgusting from concept to execution, from GUI aesthetics to file formats. I don't want anything on my machines to look like that.
1)It was good enough 8 years ago.
.fwm*rc file
2)I've got nothing better to do than fuck with my
3)My desktop doesn't look enought like ass yet.
4)I've only got 12M of memory.
5)What the hell X only holds up my xterms, and mozilla.
IANALBIPOOGL (I am not a Lawyer, but I play one on GrokLaw.)
...graduate students take you!
An unbiased medical study was recently completed which included blood tests, double-blind placebo-controlled user tests, heart monitors and urine samples, among other techniques. The study was led by Dr. Robert Wilkes and his assistant Dr. Li Huang, both of whom have a strong background in computer software. The details have not yet been made available to the public, however Drs. Wilkes and Huang have asked that the public be provided with a summary of their findings as soon as possible.
This study was conducted over a period of two years, and the results will be published shortly in a major medical journal. The subjects for the study were 235 computer users and programmers, of varying skill levels, selected at random from major cities in the U.S., and carefully monitored on a periodic basis for software-related stress, illness, injury and other ailments. They also performed psychological evaluations to determine the effect of various software brands on the users' mental health.
Below is a brief summary of the results of their findings.
Users of Microsoft Windows, Office and Internet Explorer have a significantly lower incidence of stomach ulcers, colonic gas, redness of the eyes, and stress-related high blood pressure than their Unix & Linux counterparts -- particularly the users of Solarus, Red Hat, NOME, KDE and Netscape, among others. It was believed that the ocular redness was related to the high percentage of marijuana abusers in the Linux community, and urinalysis confirmed this to be the case. Further study and psychoanalysis showed that the stress and ulceration (found in the Unix & Linux users) were primarily caused by the following factors:
The Unix & Linux users also had a greater incidence of carpal-tunnel syndrome, due to the greater necessity of typing at the command line. Examination of the wrist muscles in this group of users found numerous cases of inflammation and irreparable injury caused by their incessant command-line usage, whereas the majority of Microsoft users, who primarily use the mouse and seldom type, had healthy wrist muscles.
The Microsoft users exhibited tranquility, good mental and physical health, and balanced emotional well-being. They tend to spend more time at the gym, visit family and friends more often, and are more outgoing and social. Dr. Huang found that this is due to the fact that their operating system doesn't require them to spend long hours studying Mann pages in order to perform simple maintenance tasks. Their primary reasons for feeling secure were as follows:
marginally useful? what else could you possibly
need. you can move, resize, iconify, and uniconfy
windows
-proud twm user for at least 15 years (i think)
I put in a restart function in my root window function list. Also a "talk" function.
With these two, anything goes.
- High Tech workers, please say NO to Union Carpenters, their Union sees fit to control our compensation.
I find VTWM suits my needs better.
;-)
If you're going to go lean and mean, why not go all the way?
If you could be told what you can see or read, then it follows that you could be told what to say or think - BoC
80386 DX was a full 32 bit chip
80386 SX was a 386 DX with 24 bit memory bus and maybe a 16 bit data bus
For faster time to market, the 80386DX could work with an 80287 *or* 80387 math-co. There never was a 386 with built in FPU.
When Intel introduced the 486, everything changed:
80486DX had a built in FPU
80486SX had a built in FPU but was disabled (maybe due to poor QA rating)
80487 was an 80486DX with alternate pinout to fit in the "487" slot. Upon insertion, the 80486SX is disabled
80486SL was an 80486SX with some power saving features and lower clock speeds
80486SLC was a cyrix chip that had 16 bit data bus, 24 bit memory addresses, and no math co. It performed somewhat better than a 386SX but was cheap and drew little power. It was popular for notebook computers.
80486DX2 was the first clock doubling CPU
80486DX50 was a rare 50 MHz cpu with no clock doubling
80486DX2-66 / DX2-50 were clock doubling CPUs
80486DX4 were clock trippling CPUs
Then there were a bunch of pentia.
...and it's "Un Chien Andalou". What the fuck is "Andalusia"? An Andalusiasian Dog?
Really, the Pixies suck. Loud, soft, loud, soft, fast, slow, fast, slow... Just gimmicks.
This was thirteen years ago, mind you. I was 3l337 just because I was _using_ the RT, nevermind there wasn't jack shit installed on it except CADAM
Clickety Click
And by "real men use SysV R3 /bin/sh on an old Wyse 60" I assume that you mean "I've never had my fingers in a girl's pussy before."
I am also a user of FVWM, but I have heard of Enlightenment which is now calling itself a "desktop shell". I don't know much more than that but it sounds like something that would interest you. It is definitely very configurable and pretty.
Just last night I finally dpkg --purged it from my system, for the first time in all these years. Of course that failed: who would ever have tested it? I had to clean up by hand.
These days I have a salary and can afford to have nice pretty computers:
In my primary work area I have a powerbook (With OSX) and a Gentoo Linux PC (Strictly KDE not Gnome). Looking at those screenshots reminds me how much the Linux community has advanced since those 'hobbyist' days. I think we owe it to ourselves to have desktops that are both functional AND pretty.
Anyway Gentoo Linux includes FVWM even though that distro is less than 2 years old!
Fvwm is what Microsoft THINK all UNIX(y) computers still look like!
I need multiple virtual screens. Other than that, I probably could get most of the functionality I want out of twm with a well-written .twmrc. Looking at the man page, there are a lot of useful functions that aren't available unless you customize. For example, I use the fvwm equivalent of TwmWindows frequently; I didn't realize TwmWindows existed because you can't get to it in the default configuration.
that's right. you hobbyist whiners thought you were the only ones with kernel 'problems'.
in a deal struck DOWn with the creator, it has been found out that MANY corn growers/eaters are using yOUR patentdead kernels.
so, take heed, if ADM (yes, we know who you aren't) doesn't stop modifying yOUR kernels, we're going to litigate against orville redneckbacker, plus a LOT of folks are going to get stuck with the smelly end of the FUDgeCycle(tm) again.
consult with yOUR creator. disempower the georgewellians. we don't need no stinking 50 million dollar plane ride to know what the bare facts are.
we are however, in the process of building a big boat, that will float on any substance. lookout bullow.
as for va laIRIE's pateNTdead PostBlock(tm), it sucks paper liesense FUDgeBalls. robbIE is NOT being square with you/US. that's ok too.
... I just did an "emerge --deep fvwm" and now I can reminisce and enjoy a nice new fvwm install. I started out on Red Hat 5.0 but it's been a while since I've seen fvwm.
So ugly...can't...concentrate.
hehe twm has saved my butt sooo many times. I'm a Debian guy, and I tend to install it for my friends if they ask, so I don't bother installing a window manager until I can get X working to my satisfaction. Once I have hacked XF86Config enough to get a screen for their horrible laptop video chipsets and undocumented lcd screens, then I fire up twm and load xvidtune to tweak the config. Then when I get it optimized I install some other window manager, usually Gnome is popular with linux n00bs. Personally, I run Enlightenment-16 with the "Hand of God" theme... its almost exactly like twm except they kind of extended it a little.
Clickety Click
omfg i want 2 have like 10,000 of u'r babys!!!!!!
Why would we compare anything to Windows 3.0? This isn't a history lesson people. Any window manager for *current use* should be compared to the state of the art *today*. fvwm sucks out loud. Bury it, its starting to smell.
It was a system installed with FVWM that got my attention on Linux. the gritty unclean nature of the it just made me love it, because it was so diffrent and uglier then a Windows and MAC interface.
KDE and Gnome are great and get all the glory but if you want to screw with someone new to Linux FVWM is the way to go.
Well, you got me there, but still, just because many X11 WMs are poster children for bad taste and color blindness, doesn't mean fvwm should be kept on life support. Pull the plug already and let this brain damaged embarrassment to the *nix community die.
You lil bitchy trolls have ruined a fine interview by Fyodor, and now you're bitching on every other post.
Wankers.
P.S. My IP is 81.86.161.107
Hack that if you think you're clever enough.
oh brave new world, that has such people in it!
There's this new thing out called text screens. Even Windows XP has it!!! You can find it in XP under start->programs->accessories and it's called "command prompt".
And, get this. Instead of trying to figure out alle the menus and graphics you can just TYPE commands to it! It is my understanding the most UNIX and Linux systems has extended version of this features. One of my friends even saw a machine running TEXT ONLY!! I am sure that once Microsoft wrap their heads around it, they will be all over it. In fact, I would not be surprised if the next Windows would be developed for text use, with backward support for those old graphic programs. Oh, btw, I managed to get the ENTIRE screen in XP to be ALL text!
my sig
And theres STILL no easy way to configure it!
Because people want it to.
That's what I like! It looks like a F*ing cumepooter!
Its lean, its mean and everything'll be fullscreen,..
Here is a screenshot taken from this editorial
let me put it to you this way, i don't even Own a mouse on this computer.
shortcuts for browsing
GNU/screen for copypasting
Granted, no speak man nor info == no wm for harry,
But i'll even recap the *entire* 00:05 of 'info ratpoison' in a 2 second blast:
apt has it, emerge has it,... whaddaboutyou?
Cheers!
Thijs
Because Gnome isn't too swift with Cygwin/X11 on a Celeron 400 running 98SE* (hell, it doesn't even run!) Fvwm, keep on crankin'!
... and fvwm.
*-Mum's computer. Mine runs OpenBSD
DrQu+xum: Proof that the lameness filter doesn't work.
Yeah, started with RedHat's "Another Level" fvwm hack to work like AfterStep with 4.2, IIRC. Later moved to Window Maker. That lasted a few years until recently when KDE 3.x won me over. Played with Gnome with Sawmill (Sawfish) for a while - Gnome didn't impress me. Sawmill/Sawfish did.
HEY that's not funny, I just spent 6 hours fighting to get a Wyse 60 up with out knocking any of the other Wyse 60 down. Stupid 10 year old MoBo blew out 2 serial ports in a week, and if anything happens to a digiboard port, I'm going to have to reconfig one of the ports over from an unused printer config to a terminal config and in the process will have to learn more about $<0 openserver than I want to know because the support company went out of bussiness 5 years ago!
Apocalypse Cancelled, Sorry, No Ticket Refunds
Real men eat pancakes in the morning, fart in bed, dress in women's clothing, and hang around in bars.
Ok, I don't eat pancakes, fart in bed, _or_ hang around in bars. What was that about clothing?
Then this guy I didn't know said "I wrote that". I stopped dead in my tracks, my jaw dropped on the floor, I rewound my mental tape of what I had been saying, played it back to myself, and asked incredulously "You wrote the HyperCard Smut Stack??!" He said yes, and proceeded to tell me all about it with pride. It really made his day for somebody to bring up his baby out of the blue like that.
The guy who wrote the HyperCard Smut Stack is none other than Chuck Farnham, who is notorious in the San Francisco Bay area as a demented radio personality on Alex Bennett's "Live 105" morning radio show. "Yes this is the guy who puts food all over himself and lets people eat off of him."
-Don
Take a look and feel free: http://www.PieMenu.com
The Linux Gay Conspiracy unit has been reassigned, you are now the Apple Gay Conspirancy. Because our HQ has succesfully negotiated a deal with our long time ally, SCO, all of us homosexuals must now penetrate deeply into Apple's core. Love, Bill.
Microsoft was involved in the Motif standard, but the only similarities between motif and windows are visual. Motif got the 3D look well before Windows did, but Windows figured out the desktop metaphor before X based systems did.
When I installed my new version of Slackware (
kind of tips off where this is going doesn't it) I tried KDE. It was pretty and pleasant but I could not figure out how to slide from window (view port ? ) to window. Where do you set the edge resitance in KDE? Anyhow back to fvwm , maybe next time I will
try GNOME.
I agree with some of the other posts , why make it
look like windows? Make it look like what you want.
80486SLC was a cyrix chip that had 16 bit data bus, 24 bit memory addresses, and no math co. It performed somewhat better than a 386SX
Mine was a 33Mhz w/16Meg of memory, I took it out of service because the harddisk failed, it's mobo and memory is still in storage. I wonder if you can still get a 25Mhz 80387 for it? would make a way cool nostalgia machine
Apocalypse Cancelled, Sorry, No Ticket Refunds
(Bonus points to those that have mucked around with X11 enough to know what greyweave is).
Huh? You mean you can put images on the root window?
Hmm... it's seems like you don't neen even FVWM then, just run the naked X server!
Less is more !
"Nostalgically twm would be more cool. fvwm, fvwm2, fvwm95, icewm, sawfish are the 'other' window managers."
Actually, I think twm would be an 'other' as well. I believe the original window manager was xwm.
http://www.plig.org/xwinman/others.html
dragonhawk@iname.microsoft.com
I do not like Microsoft. Remove them from my email address.
You blew our cover. You're fired!
Clickety Click
yeah-- redundant, but like the poseter, I've tried kde and gnome numerous times and I always return to fvwm-- because it doesn't suck.
It doesn't make applications fail. It just runs applications. I've thrown my hands up many times because of weird cofiguration problems with kde and gnome (all the while thinking, what the fuck is--,this win95?)
fvwm is simple and it works.
I despise windows because it tries to do too much. I despise gnome and kde for the same reasons. All the window manager should do is manage windows. Why would I want all that eye candy gumming up the works? It's useless.
Does your mom count?
"I'd rather be a lightning rod than a seismometer." -Ken Kesey
that you get a life?
Thank you.
My CS department has an old (at least I hope so) version of fvwm as the default WM with a particularily horrid colour scheme. I've heard the reason is to force the students to delve into the config files so avoid going insane.
I stole this Sig
Here is a link to the screeshot running on my little Debian/Arm Netwinder Apache webserver:
My Screenshot [327850]
Er... yeah that FVWM looks pretty nice (snicker).
Clickety Click
...but I have it configured to look like uwm.
My first experience with Unix-esque systems and X-Windows was in 1993 when I started college. At the time my choice was TWM or FVWM. FVWM was clearly the more advanced option and one of the more advanced window managers at the time. (CDE looked advanced, but was more of a hassle than it was worth.)
Since then I've tended to be lazy and taken what I was given, stuck with whatever was the default. As a result I spend a long time with Enlightenment followed by SawFish/SawMill. I've dabbled with a number of other window managers.
Then last year (2002), I took a job back at my old university. The default was still FVWM! And while FVWM had matured, it remained instantly identifable. I hadn't used it in five years, but it came back instantly. It felt right. Sure, it lacks classy menus, but the configuration file was easy enough to use and let me set things up how I wanted. Most window managers are determined to stick the various window management buttons where they want them. FVWM makes it easy to stick them where I want them. It's a minimal WM, I don't run any of the modules except for the pager (to switch between virtual desktops) and the IconMan, a very minimal list of windows on each desktop. My desktop is spartan and I've discovered that I really like it.
Search 2010 Gen Con events
It's OS X. And it looks nothing like Windows, and for me that's a huge point in its favor.
(And yes, you are right, it started with SLS. And backups on a floppy streamer... And a VLB graphics card... And alt.os.linux... And kernel patches via Usenet...) *sigh*
;-)
Why *sigh*? Them were the good ole days of Linux.
We're going down, in a spiral to the ground
wtf? long enough? shit. how old am I?
Just out of curiousity-- why would you want a picture on your root window? Does all of your sratch paper have pictures of puppies on it?
I'm sure I left a few out. So, is there a wm that does all these things? Are these things possible? Have I just not read enough docs? Please, I'm here to learn.
Keep in Mind that Windows is a complete Operating System.
Of course it does "too much" when compared to fvwm.
Especially when you try to pronounce it.
I've heard attempts at putting every imaginable vowel sound between the letters in FVWM, and never with good results.
I think fvwm2 is the best window manager and I'm really happy to see this thread. ... I think that's it.
I think that window manager/desktop must have the following features:
* ability to start xterm instantaneously
* pager which shows windows and their titles
* flexible configuration in an editable file
Now I know that there are some newer wms which can do that as well, but I think fvwm was the first one which offered this and I see no reason to switch.
I passed the Turing test.
Arright, so what the fsck does the V stand for?
For a lot of people. Thats why there is a little bit of a push to emulate it. I'm not saying its the best, but it's fairly easy to understand and a lot of people have been trained to use it.
;-)
Different strokes. The Linux community really seems to get that.
A large part of the reason I switched from using Windows was so I could customize my operating system to better suit me (the explorer shell felt "clunky" to me). Although I did try things like Geoshell and Litestep it still felt "heavy" to me.
I preffer Blackbox (the older sibling of your own Fluxbox).
Anyhow, I seem to have drifted off. My point is a Windows style desktop manager would be great on Linux and let them complain. You and I know all we really need is a fast menu and a good background (and stuff).
Quack, quack.
What is X and what does it have to do with fvwvqm, whatever that is?
Repeal the DMCA!
The virtual desktop can be panned across, and you can set the physical desktop *anywhere* within the virtual desktop space, so the physical desktop isn't just constrained to be on coordinates in the virtual desktop that are integer multiples of the physical desktop size. AFAIK, none of the other more recent window managers have ever incorporated this idea, but it's far and away the feature I liked the most about it.
File under 'M' for 'Manic ranting'
keyboard short-cuts are easy to implement. Anything else is bloat.
*cough* ratpoison *cough*
Virtual.
Arright, smart guy. What about the W?
I'm a lumberjack and I'm OK,
I sleep all night and I work all day
He's a lumberjack and he's OK,
He sleeps all night and works all day
I cut down trees, I eat my lunch,
I go to the lavatory.
On Wednesdays I go shopping,
And have buttered scones for tea.
He's a lumberjack and he's OK,
He sleeps all night and works all day
I cut down trees, I skip and jump,
I like to press wild flowers,
I put on women's clothing,
And hang around in bars.
He cuts down trees, he skips and jumps,
He likes to press wild flowers,
He put on women's clothing,
And hang around in ?!?BARS?!?!
I'm a lumberjack and I'm OK,
I sleep all night and I work all day.
He's a lumberjack and he's OK,
He sleeps all night and works all day
I cut down trees, I wear high heels,
Suspenders and a bra,
I wish I were a girlie,
Just like my dear papa.
He cuts down trees, he wears high heels,
Suspenders and a bra,
He wants to be a girlie,
Just like his dear papa????
Composers: Terry Jones, Michael Palin, & Fred Tomlinson
Authors: Terry Jones & Michael Palin
Arranger: Fred Tomlinson
Lead Singer: Michael Palin
... which totally rocks, but is hard to find. Lets see if I can post the thing on my wee server, ah yes, I will post in into my /misc dir. You want to install the gnome pixmap theme first, which will give you support to run this awesome thing. Look at my "Gimp" window - used it to make my screenshot.
Graphite 1.2.x Get it or you suck! (Its only a theme, you can switch them at your whim).
E-16 + "Hand of God" + Gnome "Graphite" = Beauty!
Try it... you'll like it!
Clickety Click
You seem to have a hard time understanding the difference between a window manager (fvwm) and a desktop environment (gnome).
They don't look professional like this one
It kinda feels stupid now but I was afrade of GUIs before I used Linux.
Here's the story.
Back when I used Geos 64 very easy but having already learned CP/M at the time the GUI seamed very impractical. But fun and reasonably easy to learn for those not already familure with the command line.
(You have to realise that CP/M had very few commands to remember. In this context "user friendly" is more the case of not frightening the user than actually helping him to understand anything)
Then I went to Dos and Geoworks... Tried Windows and was thinking "This is user friendly?"
After that I was pritty much afrade of trying out any GUI. Seamed to me that "User Friendly" was marketting for "Built for people who don't know better" and the hype had it that GUI was User Friendly.
But I couldn't dodge the bullet forever. I'd already used Unix (AT&Ts 3B2) and already priced commertal *nixes (Only $100 for the users manual...) and desided Linux was the only option.
Slackware was an easy enough choice for me.
(I could walk over to Walnut Creek CD Rom at the time..)
And the first GUI I saw on Linux was pritty decent. FVWM. I tried FVWM95 and the LesTif but found I prefered FVWM.
Nice light weight easy and simple.
Of course it wasn't FVWM alone that ended my phobia of GUIs. I switched around and used a lot of *nix GUI's before giving up my phobia.
I don't actually exist.
vwm == virtual window manager - aka, it's a window manager, and has the virtual desktops we've all come to know and love (and miss when using non-X11 systems)
:-)
on the plus side, I just found out about http://desktopian.org/bb4win. My windows dev box is now much more tolerable
The Matrix is going down for reboot now! Stopping reality: OK. The system is halted.
Window
(Yes, I know. I've been trolled)
fihv-uh-whum
And who the fuck cares? Answer: nerds who read slashdot with no life on a friday night! FVWM! FUCKING EH! Window fucking managers! Yeah!!!!!!
All I can say from the screenshots is that there may be usability issues. Icons are non-instructive, fonts are ugly, window decorations are misguiding (for example, what does the down arrow do ? minimize or close the app ?), etc etc.
(As a side note, I installed KDE 3.0 recently. All is good, but I have two major complaints: 1) menu fonts are really big; text is jammed together, making it difficult to read; 2) the start menu has quite a lot of things that only long-time linux users know what they are.)
I hope this is taken as constructive critisism. These guys do a hell of a job when it comes to programming, but there are still usability issues.
It's not even worthy of my first asshole. God bless colitis, as it has given me a second asshold worthy of fvwm.
Finally, someone hits on the (only) reason I love and still use FVWM. The pager is the best. FVWM's pager is the only one that I've been able to set up so that I could scroll around the 2-D grid of desktops using Ctrl+Arrow_Key. I love my 3x3 array of desktops. I put an xterm in three of them and a browser in some and, with autofocus, switch between them without taking my hands off the keyboard.
A few years back (well, seven or so, heh), I tried to hack the FvwmPager module so that it could be run in any WM but was unsucsessful.
Actually, one other WM that I know of had a pager like this. OpenView (I think thats what it was called) came with my first Linux install back in late 93, IIRC, and I used it for a while on my 486/66 + 16M (!!!).
I understand the youngsters these days don't use paper any more, except in the toilet. For me, a black root window is as good as a white background on scratch paper.
For the first year of my PhD I was stuck with a sparcstation 5 on my desk (32Meg ram, processor like a fast 486). It ran CDE and it was just too painful for words.
Installing FVWM gave me a faster, more usable desktop that kept me from going insane until we got the budget to buy a new computer (which unfortunately runs win2K, but I guess you can't have everything)
Aahhhh, the memories. The first time I got X running on my Linux box was with TinyX, a slimmed down X11 that came on a single floppy. You basically got the X server, an xterm, but no window manager. Of course, in those misguided days, I wanted to run mwm, which was only available for Linux at vast expense (lesstif hadn't evolved that far then).
"The invisible and the non-existent look very much alike." -- Delos B. McKown
Dude, this is awesome! Give 'em another year or two, and by the time 1990 rolls around, this is going to be one kickass windowing environment!
/usr/ports...make install clean it for fun.
Wait a minute, just kidding, don't freak out. It actually looks all right (except for those X-y fonts), and I haven't used it in so long I might just cd
You had me at "dicks fuck assholes".
But thanks for biting. Pulling off a troll with such obvious bait gives me the self-esteem boost I need to make it possible for me to face each day.
A wonderful troll! Bravo!
Trolling is a art,
I'm asking for trouble with that subject line, but many thanks and happy birthday to fvwm. I use it because you can bind everything that matters to your idea of sensible keys (using a text based config file instead of a bloated control panel with nested dialogs) and that really helps avoid RSI.
>
fvwm is simple and it works.
What the hell? You talk about configuration problems with KDE and GNOME, yet fvwm is practically one of the hardest window managers to configure properly.
fvwm is so much more bloated than ratpoison. when ratpoison came out, I ditched fvwm like a old piece of meat.
Of course, since I got my p4 3.06 (with HT, mind you), I've been using KDE more and more. I miss some of the keyboard shortcuts, even with all the GUI effects on, it runs as fast as fvwm or ratpoison.
I just wonder why you need a WM to run xvidtune.
Nowadays, FVWM has "COOL" features like antialiased text, rotated text, text drop shadows, text outline shadow (I've never seen text outline shadow anywhere else), semi-transparent widgets, etc, etc.
Unfortunately, most of the users seem to be extremely design-impaired / color-blind, so most of the screenshots on the web are ass-ugly. But don't let that stop you, people. You can make it look however you want.
Now, where is my Usenet-proofed asbestos underwear...
Joachim
People don't write Manifestos any more -- what's going on in this world? [Frank Zappa]
Damn Neighbours.... making their own window managers now....
-- I love the smell of Blue Screens in the morning.
Call me a nittpicker, but this is what gives *everyone* introduced to GNU/Linux the creeps.
:-)
Even with themes those desktops more than often look like someone did doo-doo on those screens.
I never was convinced by fvwm and its shoddy-looking, pixelfont-ridden little gadgets on the screen. They where introduced to me 5 years ago and look crappy back then allready.
Here I'd like to hail Enlightenment and GKrellm, projects that actually managed to look like something done by people not completely colorblind.
Mod me down, but to me fvwm, along with Motifs bizar font technologies is one of those odd anacronisims of GNU/Linux that I would want begone rather sooner than later. Those geeks who still use fvwm, do as you please, but you might want to switch your WM before showing of Linux to some n00b, or else it could be that they think you're a little far out.
Oh, and Happy Birthday anyway.
We suffer more in our imagination than in reality. - Seneca
What is it with these Jewish religious fanatics? They're as bad as the right wing Christians. Funny, both groups seem to serve Jewish interests though.
Just say No.
Why a desktop image? That just adds to the clutter. *box with the Cthulain suits me well. The background is a cool slate blue-grey that's real easy on the eyes, there are no icons to get in the way. and with openbox I can change desktops/windowshade windows with the wheel mouse. Simplistic. yes. But it beats the hell out of explorer.
Give me Classic Slashdot or give me death!
I don't start many GUI applications. (Browser is always running, xterms launched from a keybinding.) When I do, I just type 'xfig &' or whatever. No need for a menu. My background menu launches terminals ssh'd to various servers. It's arranged hierarchically by site. I don't want the WM resorting it based on usage, because it's already sorted correctly.
In a nutshell, you like Microsoft's idea but not their implementation. Hence, KDE - a hopefully superior implementation of the Microsoft idea. I don't like Microsft's idea, and the poor implementation was just icing on the cake.
I've used a lot of WM's over the last decade and have kept coming back to fvwm since '95 or so. I'm so much more productive when I'm on a linux box and my custom setup than with other window managers or in windows or on my new mac (hoping I'll get used to its shortcomings soon). For network engineering, I mostly need lots of xterms (or rxvt's or what have you) and some browser windows that are easily organized and easy to get around between. Everything below is something that I have had trouble with in mac osx, windows, kde, gnome or other wm's/environments. If anyone thinks there's another interface that does everything I list (note that lots of them can do some or most of this), let me know and I'll try it out sometime.
- most importantly, i need about 10 virtual desktops, with a scaled down view of windows on each desktop and the ability to easily drag a window to another desktop. the pager should always be on top (i.e. never covered)
- the ability to move around the screen easily via keyboard. e.g. i use shift-arrow to move from virtual desktop to virtual desktop, ctrl-arrow to move 10 or 20 pixels at a time, and shift-ctrl-arrow to move 1 or 2 pixels at a time. note that those last two can take me to another virtual desktop. the mouse however, i can move as much as i like without flipping to another desktop. i can click a desktop on the pager if i don't want to go back to the keyboard
- four clean terminal windows easily fit per screen with readable text. font size should be easily changed (e.g. right-click and pull down to the size you want). also, windows must be resizeable by grabbing and dragging any side. anyone know an easier way around the default (right corner only) resize limitation in mac osx?
- cut and paste has to be quick and easy - e.g. highlight in one window and middle-click in another. this is my main obstacle to liking mac osx. someone tell me there's a tweak for this somewhere without just running x in root mode (which I've been holding off on)
- customizable menus that come up when clicking the desktop to save real estate versus a dock or task bar or whatever. should have options for move, close, and kill.
- unless someone got focus follows thought worked out, here's what i want: sloppy focus follows mouse, no auto-raising of windows (i need to look at one window and type in another), and one raise window key combo that with one press raises or lowers the window in focus and with additional use cycles through all windows on that desktop
- not a hard and fast requirement, but i do prefer a config file that's easy to grep through than endless menus. i list this just as a barrier to entry. for all i know lots of wm's have done all of the above for quite some time, but i've gotten frustrated with poor config menus and given up on them.
I sense that Red Hat is moving away from users like you and me. Yes, I also run Red Hat. It's time to move on to Gentoo or Debian.
You don't speak Welsh, do you?
Tarsnap: Online backups for the truly paranoid
I was hoping for something about GWM, the Generic Window Manager, which I used for a while... It was none too speedy on my Sparc LX, but it was pretty flexible.
I tried to xmkmf it a year or so ago but the libraries are too changed. I didn't feel like playing too much, so I gave up.
Since I'm using Gentoo
I started out on Red Hat 5.0
Name dropping wanna be 31337 fagghorx! Quit sucking your own dick in public!
Mr. Garrison: I heard there is no Christmas
In the silly Middle East
No trees, no snow, no Santa Claus
They have different religious beliefs
They believe in Muhammad
And not in our holiday
And so every December
I go to the Middle East and say...
"Hey there Mr. Muslim
Merry fucking Christmas
Put down that book the Koran
And hear some holiday wishes.
In case you haven't noticed
It's Jesus's birthday.
So get off your heathen Muslim ass
and fucking celebrate.
There is no holiday season in India I've heard
They don't hang up their stockings
And that is just absurd!
They've never read a Christmas story.
They don't know what Rudolph is about
And that is why in December
I'll go to India and shout...
Hey there Mr. Hinduist
Merry fucking Christmas
Drink eggnog and eat some beef
And pass it to the missus.
In case you haven't noticed
It's Jesus's birthday
So get off your heathen Hindu ass
and fucking celebrate!
Now I heard that in Japan
Everyone just lives in sin
They pray to several gods
And put needles in their skin.
On December 25th
All they do is eat a cake
And that is why I go to Japan
And walk around and say...
Hey there Mr. Shintoist
Merry fucking Christmas
God is going to kick your ass
You infidelic pagan scum.
In case you haven't noticed
There's festive things to do
So lets all rejoice for Jesus
And Merry fucking Christmas to you.
On Christmas day I travel `round the world and say,
Taoists, Krishnas, Buddhists, and all you atheists too,
Merry Fucking Christmas, To You!
(Clapping)
Thank you Mr. hat