Slashdot Mirror
Verizon to Reveal Customers in DMCA Subpoena Case
JulisJ writes "NYTimes reports that Verizon will turn over the names of online subscribers accused of swapping music. This could be a big blow to the file-swapping community, even if you're swapping legit." There's also a story on News.com. See our previous story for background.
here is a mirror in case the article gets slashdotted (sure to slashdot me as well i'm sure)
http://digitalsushi.com/home/mikec/mirror.gif
*ducks*
slashdot: where everyone yells sarcastic metaphors to themselves to understand the issue
...Does that constitute filesharing? :)
Bowie J. Poag
"The Court of Appeals decision confirms our long-held position that music pirates must be held accountable for their actions and not be allowed to hide behind the company that provides their Internet service," RIAA President Cary Sherman said in a statement.
Pirates by whose account? Their good guess? To the RIAA/MPAA we're all guily until proven innocent. We've already seen cases where the RIAA has made mistakes in identifying the true pirates. How many more mistakes are they going to be allowed to make without a penalty for their actions?
Mike
Oh yeah, what are they gonna do? Come and arrest me?
BRB, someone's knocking on my doo..&)DFF *& &FEfew8afujewa8iop9u
NO CARRIER
My journal has hot
/me hopes I'm not one of them...
Do these people who are being identified know who they are? Does anyone know if Verizon contacted them and made them aware? If so, would Verizon liable if they packed up, deleted all the potentially infringing files and left the country?
The RIAA are also covering this. (very smugly I bet)
You 'Kids' need to understand that MOST file swapping is illegal, so the legit uses will suffer because of it.
Keep passing the open windows...
IANAL, but can they still prove the individual's guilt if they wiped there hard drive?
"Oh someone must have spoofed my ip! I don't trade music, I swear!"
Polaroid. See what develops!!
This is the reason I only download movies and Tv shows. Music is much too dangerous.
doesn't this fit under illegal search and siezure?
I am pretty sure, but not certain, that you have the right to view the search warrant to see if it is valid. Now since your internet provider gets the warrant they have they right to look at it, but since they are not searching your property its legal for them to take whatever your IP has on you. But isn't any information that the IP gets on you illegal since it was an illegal search and seizure of sorts or did we sign away all of rights to privacy when we signed their EULA thing?
If they don't, it's their asses on the lines for obstruction of justice.
I think that the RIAA and MPAA have gone way too far. We don't need a private or secret police force in america, and we certainly don't need already super rich industries suing everyone with a DSL line to their home.
I'm truly begining to wonder when it is exactly that the public at large is going to stand up against this horrible abuse of power and perfect example of corruption of democracy and say, ENOUGH. This is getting very old very quickly and I'm tired of always hearing about the *AA lawsuits.
P2P is here to stay because people don't value the bilboard top $100 as worth $15 a CD, they value it as giving it the time to download the song. It's the same with anything else, entertainment is valued at what the consumer is willing to pay for it, it's the fact that these companies think that they're losing income. NO YOUR NOT, it's not that valuable to us and we're not going to pay for it so quit trying.
Is this concept really so hard to understand?
Ignore the "p2p is theft" trolls, they're just uninformed
After hearing this news many people are going to be discouraged by filesharing. This could be the end of people thinking they can get away with it.
So the implications will be:
1) People will stop sharing their files and leech
2) People will stop sharing and move over to services like eMusic/Apple.
3) Everyone starts using freenet!
The last option sounds the best, its the evolution of Filesharing like Kazaa was after Napster. The more they attack pirates the further underground they push them.
There is no god
Do these people who are being identified know who they are?
Let's me do some extensive research for you...
(reads article)
Yes, they do:
"Ms. Deutsch said Verizon had already informed the two people whose information is the subject of its lawsuits against the recording industry group. The group has filed two additional subpoenas, and those subscribers have also been informed that their names are to be divulged."
...how much this is going to effect their subscriber base. I would leave them for sure if I saw my ISP doing this kinda stuff. :P
No I didnt spell check this post...
do have to worry about the RIAA/MPAA if I watch my pr0n with the mute on?
I submitted this story earlier today, but it didn't make it. Basically, Sen. Sam Brownback from Kansas is announcing the "Consumer,Schools, and Libraries Digital Rights Management Awareness Act," which will, among other things, require that a copyright holder win a lawsuit in order to obtain the name of an alleged peer-to-peer pirate.
In the meantime, I say turn about's fair play: let's all of us accuse the RIAA of illegally distributing our copyrighted material and invade their privacy without bothering with the courts. Let's rat out every music executive out there who's downloading kiddie porn or sending naughty emails to their mistresses. Hey, if they can do it to us, why can't we do it to them?
my 2 cents...
Do what you can, with what you have, where you are.
This could be a big blow to the file-swapping community, even if you're swapping legit.
Exactly. Both of those people may be forced to use ftp.
Do not taunt Happy Fun Ball(TM)
The case immediately exposes the four defendants to legal action.
The nytimes.com and news.com articles don't say anything about why these 4 guys are being singled out. What about all the other millions of guys out there using P2P to swap music? Are they just trying to make a guy feel left out?
--- I'm Green Hornet's sidekick not Inspector Clouseau's!
Given that an epidemic of illegal downloading is threatening the livelihoods of artists, songwriters and tens of thousands of other recording industry workers who bring music to the public
Epidemic? Gotta love that spin....If the artists weren't getting bent over by the RIAA in the first place, it'd be even less of an issue.
I've yet to hear of any artists or workers that are pan-handling or have become squeegee people....In other news the RIAA states that file-sharing is causing the sky to fall and the world to flatten!
Methinks Verizon will lose many a customer over this.
Sehr geehrter Toilettenbenutzer!
The professor? Chances are with this precedent, the RIAA will just demand all the names of people they _think_ are trading illegal files. Knowing the ISP, they'll probably hand over the names, and disconnect your service in the process for violating TOS. The ISPs will just assume everything is true.
:)
Since the RIAA didn't even bother CHECKING the files first, who knows how many people are going to get screwed this way. I'm sure there are Pro-RIAA zealots out there who PURPOSEFULLY put out fakes. Well I guess there is a brighter side. Those guys will get nailed too
That's dumb and counter-productive. Verizon has been supporting (probably at significant legal costs to themselves) the rights of these people to remain anonymous. To turn around and sue them is, to use a cliché, like biting the hand that feeds you.
"The evil of the world is made possible by nothing but the sanction you give it." -- Ayn Rand
at msnbc, where this story is running also, (http://www.msnbc.com/news/922214.asp?0dm=C12LT) they state at the end "Meanwhile, both sides (RIAA and Verizon) are closely watching for legislation coming soon from a Republican lawmaker that would require copyright holders to file an actual legal case against a suspected infringer before they seek the subscriberâ(TM)s identity via a subpoena."
Anyone know who is proposing this and what it entails? Any other details?
-DarDack
"Life is not fair"
I know this may be out of left field, but could I not copyright my identity? What's to stop me from copyrighting my name, address, phone number, email, IP address, etc? If my ISP were to reveal my identity, I could then initiate the same process that the **AA is initiating against file swappers. This way, anyone who infringes on my privacy by either sending my spam, telemarketing, revealing my address, engage in identity theft, or revealing my identity to people/organizations I don't want would be guilty of copyright infringement.
Just a thought.
This space left intentionally blank.
Unlike ordinary "John Doe" subpoenas, the Digital Millennium Copyright Act (DMCA) allows copyright holders to subpoena information without first seeking a judge's blessing, making it an easier and cheaper method for tracking down alleged copyright infringers.
That's not correct. Had Verizon responded by shutting off the offending material, it could not have been compelled to reveal the subscriber's information short of RIAA filing a John Doe suit.
Verizon made a different claim. It said, "I'm just an innocent ISP. Someone else owns and is in posession of those servers." RIAA then quite reasonably said, "Well then you have to tell us how to get in touch with them so that we can serve them the same DMCA notice." Verizon said, "Nuh uh!" and the current legal battle ensued.
Basically, Verizon thought they saw a hole in the law and were trying to take advantage of it. The safe harbor portion of the law says that in order to be protected from copyright infringment claims, Verizon would have to take down any infringing material a customer put on their server at the owner's request, UNLESS the customer wrote a counter letter claiming that the material was non-infringing. If the customer wrote such a letter, Verizon could leave the material up and still not be liable for any infringement, however they would have to pass the letter back to the complainer and the letter was required to include the customer's contact information.
Not explicitly addressed in the law was the understanding that the IP addresses assigned to various companies was a matter of public record, stored at the various IP registries, so a copyright owner could directly determine who owned a particular server.
Verizon went to court and said, "That IP address is delegated to someone else, and just because the IP block delegations to me are published doesn't mean I have to publish who I delegate IP addresses to."
In essence, the court said, "Horse puckey! The IP address registry says that's your IP address. If its not, you have to say whose it is. And you better hurry up before we decide that it was yours after all and you lose your safe harbor protection!"
Moderating "-1, Disagree" is simple censorship. Have the guts to post your opinion.
Hey tough guy, don't you get it? The day of government enforced corporate monopolies is slowly, grindingly dragging to a close. Why? The massive, hundreds of millions strong groundswell of public opinion is finally being given a voice, and that voice is P2P. How many times has Kazaa been downloaded? You think those numbers are exaggerated, or part of some Kazaa marketing spin?
We can and will download software, music, films, and anything else we can lay our paws on for nothing more than the cost of the connection. Why? Because we're sick of the overcharging and package stuffing indulged in by all the major producers? No. Because we are immoral and anarchistic criminals seeking to imbalance western economic equilibrium? No.
We do it because we can, and its cheaper than buying the damn things. A couple of examples are not going to stop or even slow down the tidal wave which is all around us. The floodgates that no one even knew were there are open, and they will never be closed again. Its over.
Sorry for your troubles, but if I was you I'd get into cabbage farming or something. Open source is not a viable alternative, its the only way its going to go! Anything that can be committed to an electronic medium should be immediately free.
You're wasting your time otherwise.
If I put up a web page on my machine or in the FTP headers and such, on my IP saying that site cannot be accessed by the RIAA, its affiliates or anyone working for the RIAA for any reason and that doing so constitutes illegal intrusion into my system, would that make the RIAA liable for accessing my system illegally. Is there any kind of electronic tresspass law which people could use to make it illegal for them to send their web crawlers and such over your website and such?
Given that I don't host their crap on my site, what gives them the right to eat up my bandwidth constantly by randomly searching for mp3's? (My personal webserver has been crawled by a suspected RIAA bot about 15 times this week) I know they are doing this as they have Embarrased themselves in the past by searching harmless systems.
This makes going over my log files when I need to a real pain too when I have access logs showing some damn bot pouring over every file name on the system.
So do those of us who are sick of them using these abusive tactics have any recourse to go after the RIAA for intruding on our systems with annoying bots? I for one am tired of them cataloging my web server and trying to FTP in anonymously every 10 hours or so just because I *might* have something of theirs posted up.
--Won't that be grand? Computers and the programs will start thinking and the people will stop. - Dr. Walter Gibbs
If someone should happen to post it, perhaps she might receive a few new catalog subscriptions... perhaps enough to flood a city block?
Why not post some other interesting RIAA office addresses? It might make sending subpoenas and cease and desist notices more interesting if they have to wade through an ocean of Spiegel catalogs to do it.
Denial of service indeed.
This development is significantly more serious than the lawsuits currently filed against P2P software developers, such as the one against Streamcast. First, there is a set precedent of the RIAA winning suits against individual persons - take the university students that were sued earlier this year, for example. Regardless of if the P2P suits are won - after all, there can always be another P2P app developed and posted online somewhere (just ask Justin from Nullsoft about that) - if individuals themselves are faced with the threat of multi-million dollar lawsuits by the RIAA for swapping music files, who is going to take the risk? Is the threat of settling out of court for tens of thousands really worth risking an illegal download of a song that could be purchased for .99 cents from a 'legitimate' provider?
Does this mean that so-called 'legitimate' music file services, such as those provided by Apple and RealNetwork, will become the preferred method of obtaining music online?
What does this mean for ISPs who provide broadband? How many of you have seen the Comcast commercial, where they pitch the fact that you can quickly download music files as part of the reason to switch to cable internet access? (the ad is of a guy burning a CD for some girl he just went on a date w/...) I know for a fact many consummers are moving to broadband simply because they can download music, movies, videos - for "free". While I doubt that there would be an exodus of cable/dsl subscribers leaving their service to return to dialup, if file sharing were no longer 'safe', so to speak, what impact would this have on future sales of broadband internet service? On some level, Verizon has to understand that file sharing's survival has an impact on sales of their DSL service - while I'm sure they are trying to protect the rights of their customers, they have to also be aware that the elimination of P2P as one of the broadband 'perks' is a blow to the appeal of their product.
Should ISPs include some kind of 'legitimate' file sharing service as part of their broadband plan?
If the RIAA believes these kind of injunctions are going to somehow stimulate sales of CDs, they are sorely mistaken - removing the on-demand, popular method of previewing an artist's recorded work prior to purchasing will only hurt CD sales, not strengthen them. The best thing the RIAA could do to stimulate music sales is to prevent crappy music from getting recorded in the first place...
If it is so easy to get the ISP to reveal the identity of a P2P user, why not get them to give the names and addresses behind the accounts that send SPAM?
(emphasis added by me)
I guess the two decks in the player could have been in a prearranged, formal combat between two persons, usually fought to settle a point of honor, but I highly doubt it. I'm sure you meant it was composed of two usually like or complementary parts instead. Too bad you didn't say that.
i am at work but my home computer is on right now swapping songs.
what are they going to do? cut off my access?
i go to another isp.
are they going to sue me?
show me my illegal files. they are all on an external usb drive. oops, no more drive.
prove i traded files with a certain name/ ip?
someone hacked my account. my ip changes every time i login. prove it's really me.
and if they do, i will proudly go down as a martyr for the cause of intellectual property common sense. if those legions of lawyer assholes want to make me a fallguy for the fucking riaa, so be it.
the corporatization of intellectual property has gotten to the point where innovation is stifled in the name of maximizing corporate profits.
intellectual property laws should FOSTER creativity, not squash it. i would be proud to be turned into a bankrupt cause celeb for the sake of publicizing and casting a spotlight on a bankrupt morality.
some of you think no one will care. well, guess what, more and more people are caring every day about individual rights being trampled in the name of the bank accounts of large corporations. i am completely unapologetic about my file swapping and i will be proud to be sued by these mother fuckers if what i get in return is the image of the little guy getting screwed by corporate interests broadly publicized.
first rule of public relations: there is no such thing as bad pr. any noise that is made over this case is good pr for the cause of individual rights versus corporate greed. fuck them. go ahead and sue me assholes.
my file swapping is going on right now and will not be stopped. i will switch isps, i will switch file swapping programs. and there is nothing you can do to stop me.
and oyu can take "me" to be the individual in pursuit of intellectual property common sense.
intellectual property law is philosophically incoherent. it is your moral duty to ignore it or sabotage it
At least Verizon didn't in this case -- Good for them! There have been a number of cases where ISPs have just rolled over and released names. $cientology has done it a number of times with completely bogus copyright claims. (Theoretically they could be counter-whacked in court, but who wants to get in a legal battle with people who'll spend millions to avoid paying out "one thin dime"? [Although, in the end, they paid out over 80 million thin dimes, w00t!]) AOL rolled over for the US Navy without even a DMCA claim. "According to the sworn testimony of US Navy staff legalman Joseph M. Kaiser, he called AOL and immediately got the full real name and state of residence of the AOL member who owned the profile in question."
If the RIAA didn't check the files at the time, and assuming the files are long gone from computers involved, where's their case? (Pro-RIAA zealots? Where?)
One line blog. I hear that they're called Twitters now.
Who are the four? Has Verizon contacted the alleged offenders and said "The RIAA is after you". If not, then think of all the schmoes deleting files. Who wins? The RIAA. Once again this is a tactic.
Kill the White Man
I changed my name to reflect an expresion of my innerself. As I feel this is an unique expression I do not want others copying it and infringing on my art.
How bout that?
-- taking over the world, we are.
. . . what effect this will have on Verizon and who uses it, if any. That's something worth following - if Verizon does indeed suffer loss of customers, etc. that may be a powerful club to motivate other companies NOT to give in to the RIAA.
.
That is of course, if enough people care to boycott/protest/avoid Verizon . .
"The Sage treasures Unity and measures all things by it" - Lao Tzu
So what's the RIAA going to do with hundreds of thousands, and if other ISPs follow - tens of millions, of seperate teenagers downloading music? Go after each and every one of them? Try it. Just. Try. It.
SecondPageMedia - Wha
Stop laughing. Yes, you! I'm serious.
What was music like before recordings? People wrote songs, to be sure. Other people published the sheet music under copyright. People played the music and sang the music. Some bought the sheet music, others played by ear and remembered the words. The people who wrote the music didn't get rich, but some of the publishers did. (Sound familiar?)So if Congress says, "Copy away!" and the recording industry dries up and blows away:
How is this a bad thing? Think about it with an open mind and see where it leads.Will there still be music? Yes.
Recorded music? Maybe.
Will the people who write the music starve? No. (They'll keep their day jobs.)
Will the publishers starve? Not if they can be retrained as burger flippers. [Joke!]
Will there still be professional performers? Yes.
Will you or your kids learn to play an instrument and sing? Quite likely.
Will you enjoy getting together with friends and neighbors for a "Music Night" every week? Probably more than you enjoy sitting alone in your room wearing headphones.
You were 80% angel, 10% demon. The rest was hard to explain. - Over The Rhine
"Math in a song is good."-Linford
This is also known as guilty until proven innocent, for those of us that may show up as a false-positive on the illegal P2P scale.
Even more interesting, as mentioned in the News.com article, is a related story from yesterday morning that I missed. It seems the Republicans are getting it right... or at least are trying to. Republican Senator Sam Brownback of Kansas is seeking to regulate how digital rights management (DRM) is incorporated into consumer products. Also, the proposed bill would require that a copyright holder gets permission from a judge before receiving the name of any alleged illegal P2P user.
Of course, DRM goes against everything I believe in, but any kind of regulation of how this technology is deployed is a step in the right direction. Allowing the marketplace to intelligently decide what amount (if any) of copy protection is reasonable is a Good Thing.
True about what they need to do, but I think it's too late. Kids won't pay for what they got for free. It would have to be ridiculously cheap (like 5 cents a song) for it to stop piracy.
This is my digital signature. 10011011001
According to this report, the names HAVE actually been turned over today as Verizon Turns Over Names in Piracy Case
Corporate Gadfly
Jonathan Archer: the most beaten up Enterprise captain in Star Trek history
Here's an analog to show you that this is a dangerous idea...
If you take 5 lbs of flour or powdered sugar, and put it in clear ziplocks and tape it up to look like cocaine, and you get pulled over and searched, and the cop finds it... guess what, you're STILL going to jail even though the substance you are carrying isn't itself illegal.
Just one example, in Arizona, State Law 13-3453 states that "It is unlawful for a person to manufacture, distribute or possess with intent to distribute an imitation controlled substance." The reason being that such activities mimic the actual felony and therefore consume the time and resources of law enforcement engaged in the investigation of a crime. In AZ it's a class 6 felony, but it may vary from state to state, and could probably be considered felony obstruction of justice by some overzealous district attorneys.
The same legal theory can probably be applied to the manufacture and distribution of other "contraband," such as "illicit" digital "substances." If you make a fake with the intent of diverting or otherwise spoofing law enforcement, they are going to be very pissed, and will not by any means think what you are doing is cute or funny.
A few high profile cases is all the RIAA needs, and one of these days they will get it. That will end my sharing.
The only way to stop this, IF YOU BELIEVE THAT THE MUSIC BUSINESS MODEL MUST CHANGE, and IF YOU BELIEVE THAT INNOVATION IS BEING SNUFFED, is to take drastic action now.
If the RIAA is citing 5% percent dip in sales, make it 50%. If you buy 10 CD's a year, buy only 5. If you buy 20 CD's a year buy only 10. Better still, if you can copy a friend's CD do so.
If you take steps now, which I am (I have gone even further and cut my CD buying 85 % to buying only 15 % of what I used to buy) then everyday will have an effect on the RIAA. A year has only 365 days, and if retail stores can move from black to red just because number of shopping days decreases by 1 or 2 - just imagine what will happen if number of shopping days falls by 200. The industry big boys, the fat, and all these extra vultures like Rosen and Sherman will be wiped out.
Can it be done. I belive it will be done. But, I just hope it doesn't take a few high profile cases of RIAA MPAA screwing people, before the non-violent Gandhi method of boycott will gain speed. If it doesn't, soon, I won't be sharing files - though neither will I buy and CD's.
To see a world in a grain of sand, and then to step back and see the beach where the sand lies
stock fraud
hooking up cable TV without paying
phone phreaking
identity theft
software piracy
etc., etc., etc.
It's unlikely that you're going to get caught or punished for "sharing", but don't kid yourself about what you're doing...
1. Be contacted by Verizon that your name is one of them being given out.
2. Go buy the CD's (used if possible, if new then don't open them) for all the music you have shared.
Sure you'll probably be in debt, but you won't be in jail/fined. After the trial, sell/return CDs.
I just read about Earthstation 5 - no idea who they are (prehaps the RIAA in disguise!), but this program claims to be
Well, it sounds interesting - I'm not going to try it though *G*
If Google really cared they would fix Android Chrome to reflow text, instead of discriminating
"The technology will move faster than the court systems," said Jorge A. Gonzalez, the founder of Zeropaid.com, a repository of information for file-sharing software. "The new programs being developed are going to mask users. By the time Verizon has to start turning over a lot of names, the identities of users will be unknown."
That about sums it up. Filesharing isn't going to disappear, it will just get smarter. Eventually, we'll start pulling the same measures as email, although they might be more effective in P2P: tarpitting, blacklisting, etc etc
In the meantime though, why not move to Canada. I've yet to hear of such a case here (possibly offset by the crappy CD-tax?). Anyone else heard of RIAA attacks here up North?
Mind you, I'm not saying the following represented a GOOD thing... it undoubtedly resulted in one or more extra drunks on the road...
Once I was at the local bowling alley at closing time. I was the least drunk of the group, and even I didn't want to drive. So we hung around the parking lot, trying to avoid the issue, when we noticed a guy visibly staggering, by all appearances falling-down drunk. He then proceeds to get into his car (new, though I don't recall exactly what type), and after missing the keyhole several times, starts the engine, BUCKLES HIS SEATBELT, and puts the car into gear.
Needless to say, he is immediately stopped and made to do sobriety tests and a breathalyzer the instant he leaves the parking lot. He passes all of them. The absolutely irate police are forced to let him go, as they can't even ticket him for a seatbelt violation! Meanwhile, everyone else has left while all cop eyes were on the Designated Drunk (who was, of course, completely sober).
Pissing off cops may not be a very good idea, but it's still legal if done properly.
Right after that, the cops hustled us into our car and made me drive it back to the nearest person's house (about two blocks) though I *did* have some alcohol in me. I didn't know if I should do it or refuse. Luckily, they weren't trying to set me up for anything, they just wanted us to go away, and we got back without incident.
How is the Riemann zeta function like Trump rallies? Both have an endless number of trivial zeros.
The difference is that private property and the rights that accompany it (my hat, my toothbrush, my car, my underwear) preceed the existence of government--or even the concept of government. Governments enforce this right through laws that establish penalties for theft. Stealing is a crime against the person, according to nature of man.
Copyright, however, and the right of exclusivity that accompanies it, was created by the government, though the enactment of a law. There is no precedent right that is being enforced by the law. Even though the law provides remedy to the copyright holder in cases of infringement, the crime is a crime against copyright law, rather than against the person.
--When you buy proprietary software, you don't get better software. What you get is the right to complain about it.