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Running Linux On Acer's C100 Tablet PC
Christopher Coulter writes submitted a link to this detailed guide to putting Debian GNU/Linux on an Acer Tablet PC. That most manufacturers aren't leaping to provide Linux support on their tablet PCs doesn't mean it isn't possible ;)
isn't table PC sales dropping ?
besides the cool factor, what benefit would this be of ?
for the last time people, I am "frodo from middle eaRTH", not "middle eaST".
It now fits my main uses, which are reading academic papers, writing notes, and doing calculations.
My only question to him is: How could those needs not be met in a Windows XP envrioment? I would hope that he didn't spend too much time durring class and such trying to install Linux durring a lecture. I thought the main idea of a Tablet PC was to keep you from having so much hassle.
Because the CLI is particularly well-suited to tablet PCs, you know.
10 PRINT CHR$(205.5+RND(1)); : GOTO 10
That's awesome. I was thinking of buying one of those a while ago. If you want more information go here. Price scared me off, though. Too bad, might reconsider it now.
Since when has this country used intellectual elite as a pejorative term?
Since I know all you Lunix zealots are going to flame me, here's an addendum: yes, I know you can do plenty of things from a GUI in Debian. I use it myself. But you can't really do anything important (system-config type stuff) without resorting to a CLI, or at best an ncurses-based "gui" (that still requires use of a keyboard).
10 PRINT CHR$(205.5+RND(1)); : GOTO 10
I work for one of the "Top 5" that builds Tablet PCs, and a few of us there have been prodding for approval to look into getting Linux on the Tablet PC. We have even had people come to us representing various distros, but still, our management doesn't see the value in Linux on the Tablet PC.
Another thing is that we get HUGE $$$$$ from Microsoft for advertising and development.
I thought handwriting recognition was one of the things people were attracted to when considering a tablet. Doesn't sound like he's got that (other than the graffiti-like app). Any OS programs that fit the bill?
1) Ink integration into applications?
2) Handwriting recognition?
3) Documentation annotation?
4) Screen rotation?
If you're going to drop the cash on a tablet pc (over that of a laptop) don't you think that we need to come up with this stuff?
That most manufacturers aren't leaping to provide Linux support on their tablet PCs doesn't mean it isn't possible ;)
When will manufacturers (not just tablet PCs, but hardware across the board) realize that supporting Linux will benefit them greatly? I mean, even the small steps that nVidia has taken has won the hearts of many a geek.
I guess they just don't realize it. Funny thing is, I have a friend who works for ATI and says that they use Linux workstations do big chunks of their development, but have never considered explicitly supporting their stuff on Linux. Maybe we should be more vocal as a community.
Anyone have any good links for running Linux on the Toshiba Portege 3500?
Getting the WACOM supported and the Wireless working correctly are my main sticklers right now, with Redhat.
That most manufacturers aren't leaping to provide Linux support on their tablet PCs doesn't mean it isn't possible ;)
Just because you can do something, doesn't mean it makes any sense to do it. But kudos never-the-less.
But what does that really acheive, apart from proving to the world that you need to get a life? We already know that Linux is a highly flexible operting system, but unless there's a concrete reason for running Linux on something, it's pointless really. I'm already waiting for the first person to announce that they've converted their internet fridge to Linux.
Congratulations on getting Linux working on TabletPC hardware. It's always neat to see linux on newer and different hardware.
/search/ using ink.
/run/ the application on this linux/tabletpc is not enough. Many will not be nearly as useful as if they were built assuming some sort of ink interface.
/not/ the same as a mouse interface. It has different dynamics and unique properties. Applications, for instance, that make use of the wacom tablets will be best suited for the linux/tabletpc combo.
There are some obvious next steps here. What makes TabletPC is not merely its form-factor or the hardware bits -- it is also, in large part, the software that is running on the TabletPC. TabletPC has all sorts of software hooks to make applications function reasonably well with just ink input. Can someone out there create a linux-equivalent to the ink applications for TabletPC?
For instance, the Journal is super cool. It lets you make notes in ink (or by text), it can translate, etc. Most importantly, you can
Most linux and applications in X assume keyboard + mouse input. This is not an unreasonable assumption; however, it does mean that just being able to
Note: the Ink interface is
There are lots of apps to resize the XP ntfs partition, safer and easier to use than the ntfsresize app. Like Partition Magic or Partition Manager, or this freeware one: http://www.ranish.com/part/
I don't know why he went to all that trouble
Yes, this is kind of neat.
But for me, I won't bother with Linux on any stylus-only machine until you can get something resembling real HWR for Linux. Yes, there are softkeyboards and plenty of character recognition schemes. That isn't HWR.
While I'd rather use Linux than Windows for a number of the usual reasons, if I had a tablet, I'd use Win2k on it. At least with Windows I can get real HWR- in the form of PenOffice/CalliGrapher.
While the regular consumer cannot get real HWR for Linux, it does exist. Motorola's Lexicus division makes real HWR software for a number of platforms including Linux. However, you can't download it and install it for free, or even purchse it. You can as an OEM, but that doesn't do me much good. That, and it really blows- I've used Lexicus's HWR on a ProGear webpad under Linux. First, you have to write in a little box, not just anywhere on the screen. You cannot expand the dictionary- so you'll likely be going back to the softkb for names, etc. It is also very slow, at least on a 400 MHz Crusoe. Oh well...
I'd love to be proven wrong. If anyonem knows of any other real HWR software for Linux commercial or free, please holler!
Working toward a usable PDA environment in the spirit of Newton OS: Dynapad
Next step: is there a good free handwriting recognition software? I mean one that can work in two languages on the same system? The one bundled with Windows restricts you to one language.
I wanted to purchase a Tablet, but it is useless if it can't work both in my mother tongue and in English. There is an Internet here! You can't stick to one language unless you are born English.
I had intended to wonder why anyone needed to convert a Windows XP Tablet machine to Linux when a Linux solution exists, but I guess it was merely an announcement to gauge interest.
-- @rjamestaylor on Ello
Aside from the "wow" factor of this, I am not sure that there are any real advantages to installing Linux on a tablet PC. One of the TPC's main selling points is the HWR, which isn't in linux. I use linux (gentoo) on the desktop, I love linux, however I have enough of an open mind to realise that linux is not the best solution to everything. I think that htis is one of those cases.
History will be kind to me, for I intend to write it - Sir Winston Churchill
Mod Parent up
How can you moderate something as offtopic without reading the article ??
or has Debian unstable been realy messed up?
I am the Alpha and the Omega-3
I have a couple of Tablet PCs. The handwriting recognition that comes with Tablet PC is largely useless. Furthermore, ink handling is poorly integrated into the OS.
That means that when you use a Tablet PC, you are reduced to using the PocketPC character recognizer or the on-screen keyboard. And for that, Linux has equivalents that are as good or better (xscribble and xvkdb).
So far, there hasn't been much demand for connected handwriting recognition for Linux, or for ink software, because there haven't been many tablets. Now that tablets are fairly affordable, thanks to Microsoft, that is likely going to change. Open source operates in response to supply and demand; it's not usually first, but it usually fills the needs of users.
...if we had CLI's that worked through handwriting recognition.
I foresee a lot of funny little accidents. "No, no! Don't recompile now!"
The coolest voice ever.
LibStroke
Analogies don't equal equalities, they are merely somewhat analogous.
Google Cache
Will it be cooler or "wower" to be able to install and run WindowsXP on a PunchCard MainFrame, so you scan or bluetooth (Plug'n'Play you see?) a bunch of punch hole signals and it'll produce a nicely formatted Word document?
Can someone out there create a linux-equivalent to the ink applications for TabletPC?
/search/ using ink.
/not/ the same as a mouse interface.
Yes. In fact, a lot of software already exists. X11 has been used for more than a decade with tablets (Wacom, etc.), so all the pen input and character recognizer support is there. Furthermore, Gtk+ and a few other toolkits have low-level support for pen input.
In addition, the Linux-based handhelds already use pen input, so there is experience with, and support for, Linux and X11-based pen-based applications, although those are, of course, for small-screen devices.
For instance, the Journal is super cool. It lets you make notes in ink (or by text), it can translate, etc. Most importantly, you can
I have tried using Journal for taking notes. It makes for a slick demo, but ultimately, I find a keyboard (even a one-handed keyboard) more efficient. Note that few of the features in Journal are novel--similar software has been around for decades.
Note: the Ink interface is
You should tell that to Microsoft: most of the software running on Tablet PC has been very poorly adapted to a pen interface and feels like it's been written for a mouse.
hmm.. sounds like a library used for teledildonics.
What I'd like is a waterproof tablet PC. I messed up my knee so I've been regularly having to soak my legs in hot water for therapy. Being able to utilize that time just turning into a prune would be nice.
A slip of the foot you may soon recover, but a slip of the tongue you may never get over. -Benjamin Franklin
Wow, somebody seriously needs to look into the Gnome2 backport to Woody.
The combination of X and ordinary free software on this platform blows away M$ offerings which restrict you to one user one computer one program, DOS days limits. Find and grep are powerful search tools and not that difficult to learn or use. KDE's embeded konsol has stylus buttons that make using the command line easy: shortcuts to history, enter and commands from a pull down menue that remembers your most common commands. Of course, for note taking, it would be much easier to simply record the conversation as ogg files and then use speach recognition to convert it, how's that for "intuitive"?. At 800 MHz, you should be able to do that, recoginize your hadwriting and serve it all out with apatche dynamically at the same time. Try that with eXPensive software.
Friends don't help friends install M$ junk.
Low sales = low prices. I imagine sales are down because M$'s eXPensive software blows.
Friends don't help friends install M$ junk.
This runs linux?
I think the whole LOY [Linux On You!(tm)] thing is a bit pointless after a while. however i also reckon Linux is growing every day because it's showing the baby-brother syndrom, where the youngest sibling in the family always try to copy/emulate or even better what his elder siblings have done.
So if i see my elder brother has successfully installed Linux on XBox, i for sure want to install Linux on C100 with ink feature!
Where Do You Want Linux To Run Today?(tm)
First we have to ask what do you want to use the device for? If you want to bang out lots of text, forget this and get a desktop with a good keyboard. If you want to do quick email and web browse, graphiti is all you need. I've used graphiti for data logging in a plant, and it worked well with templates. If you want a little more text in your email or want to take notes, go for speach recognition. Record, ogg, recognize at your later. I'm not very impressed by programs that take many letters at a time in a drawing and process them by graphiti, so that all the errors are left embeded.
Friends don't help friends install M$ junk.
Here are links to some programs I've found useful
Honestly, I'd love to see anyone try and ssh anywhere with just ink for input!
.you have to peck out a username and password. Same with saving documents and creating folders. I should note that updates to the platform are coming soon to address problems like these.
Having built Tablet PC apps, I can say that there are a number of reasons why the platform just ain't there yet, and a good number of these are because its really *really* hard to design an operating system that runs in an intuitive manner with nothing but ink input. As things stand now, you can't even log into XP TE with ink. .
Anyways, its great to see alternatives for the tablet, but unless some serious dev effort is put into making Linux work with an entirely different input profile, I can't see it as real useful here.
- - - - - - - -
Don't worry, being eaten by a crocodile is just like going to sleep in a giant blender.
I know! We can run Linux instead of Windows, but then because we can't port the handwriting translation tools, we'll run Wine and run them inside that! Better yet, we can run Linux and then VMWare can run BSD and THEN Wine the translation tools on top of that! That sounds really productive!
try using debian before you comment retard
I am the Alpha and the Omega-3
Now, give on tabletpc with Linux pre-installed, and the other with Windows Xp pre-installed. What the difference in "hassle"?
The point is that hardware vendors are still slaves of Microsoft. Everything what's done to help to liberate them is good. Good for them, vendors, and good for us, customers.
Less is more !
classy.
Yuo == teh fuckin stupid.
This is something what MS "ink" does;o wnloads /transcriber.asp
http://www.microsoft.com/mobile/pocketpc/d
It doesn't take single line drawings and translate them into letters, it takes written words (in my crappy hand writing) and translates it.
There is also a version for the TabletPC.
This is the single biggest advantage that MS has over Linux in PDAs and tablets.
The surprise isn't how often we make bad choices; the surprise is how seldom they defeat us.
Sounds good if you want to hand write japanese. It's supposed to be one of the best kanjipad implementations. =)
Whenever I'm on a windows box (without PuTTY for ssh), I use Webmin. It provides all the functionality for remote configuration graphically through a web browser.
Linuxconf used to (and still is?) a good tool for configuration. Drakconf, shipped with Mandrake, can configure the entire system graphically.
Debian is written by and for those who know what they are doing. "ifdown eth1 && ifup eth0" can save a LOT of clicking. If you want to compare windows (the OS for idiots) with Linux, at least compare it to an idiot-friendly distribution. When you know what you're doing, a CLI is faster.
I have had a Linux-powered tablet pc for a few years running zipslack. Pre-M$ hype of course. Linux-conf and the rest of that shit makes it relatively easy to use, but I can't live without a keyboard.
In general, screw tablets. Buy a laptop; it's cheaper and well worth the investment.
You can't judge a book by the way it wears its hair.
>all the pen input and character recognizer support is there.
>Linux-based handhelds already use pen input,
No its not the same software. Character support is like Palm input. One character at a time. The "ink" is one word at a time, like you were actually writing notes.
And to alot of people who are used to writing notes with a pen and paper, its a big difference.
The surprise isn't how often we make bad choices; the surprise is how seldom they defeat us.
There's also a mailing list and another web site for putting Linux on the Acer TM100.
Character support is like Palm input. One character at a time. The "ink" is one word at a time, like you were actually writing notes.
That's exactly what I said. X11 has support for pen input, so you can build whatever recognizer you like. And there are several character recognizers available already, but no good word-level recognizers.
And to alot of people who are used to writing notes with a pen and paper, its a big difference.
It would be if Tablet PC's word-level recognizer and ink support was actually usable. It isn't. It's basically junk. Maybe they'll get it right in another couple of releases, but by then, you'll probably see good Linux alternatives already.
Until then, Linux and Tablet PC are about equal when it comes to ink: character-at-a-time and on-screen keyboard input is the only stuff that really works for entering text.
I think that Dasher could be used as an alternative to handwriting recognition on these.
In response to your sig..
;-)
What the hell are you and everyone else doing wrong?
They connect to the internet. An office LAN not connected to the internet doesn't count.
The truth shall set you free!
I agree- the way MS has it setup by default in Tablet PC XP is ... suboptimal. Digital Ink is stupid unless the whole OS supports it- the Newton is a good example of how that can be done well. Non-ink-based HWR works fine in an OS which wasn't built around it- you draw and it makes text. You can edit the text, and the HWR software takes care of faking keystrokes. A good setup.
:)
I've used a PC with CalliGrapher/PenOffice on it and it worked pretty well. Naturally, nothing as nice as the integration that you get with an OS designed with the pen in mind from the start, but still.
Yo're not reduced to that on the tabletPC- no reason you cannot install PenOffice. I agree that you can get soft-kbs and stroke recognition on Linux that are as good as anything like that will get.
I think the lack of real HWR for Linux goes beyond just there not being many tablets. I think there is a deeper issue, although the lack of tablet-x86-ish hardware is a factor. From my discussions on a number of forums and irc channels, it seems that most Linux developers and users don't think there is any value in connected handwriting recognition. They often think that there is no psychological difference between writing a *word* just as you'd write it on paper and having the system be intelligent enough to translate that into plain-old text and picking apart each word you want to input into letters, seperating it all into the strokes which match up with them.
I am not saying there will never be real HWR for Linux, but it is likely a long way off. For one, as I mused about above, too many Linux users and developers think that real HWR is a good for nothing "Eat Up Martha." Second, real HWR that is accurate, consistent, and fast enough on semi-modern hardware isn't the easiest thing to code. It's the kind of thing people do real research on, spending a lot of man-hours developing. Not to say that kind of work isn't or hasn't been done in the OSS community- it certainly has. It just seems to be a level beyond the majority of OSS projects. Granted, a good HWR system is a level beyond most software projects in general... I hope I'm proven wrong! It may take a number of years, but I'd love to be able to have my handwriting recognizer be open source.
Ink software is something I think will come even slower. Sure, folks will probably hack something on ala Microsoft, but creating a good Ink/Text system will require the rewrite of GUI toolkits. Who knows? Perhaps we'll see a new GUI or X11 toolkit integrate this at the ground floor, and take over within a few short years...
Working toward a usable PDA environment in the spirit of Newton OS: Dynapad
I've had this page up for about a month, which describes my efforts to get Linux working on a Toshiba Portege 3500 tablet PC. It has slightly different hardware than the other guy's machine, but probably similar enough for most people...
I'm sort of physically impaired, so I'm not a good example. But my experience with ink and gestures on the PDA suggests that not everybody finds them productive.
I started out with a Newton. Of course, early Newtons had terrible handwriting recognition. Which they more or less fixed -- about the time Jobs pulled the plug on the product. But even if I had one of the later Newton's, I'm not sure I'd rely on handwriting input that much -- for me, it'd still be too slow and unreliable.
Similar issues with gesture-based inputs, like Graffiti and Jot. Once you get past the initial learning phase, they're a lot easier to use than handwriting input. But you have to have really good coordination to use them with any speed or accuracy. And I don't have that.
Which is why I use Fitaly Stamp on my Palm. Shouldn't be that hard to implement on Linux.
then from what starting point will RedHat, Debian et al. have to work from? How will they even know anyone cares to install Linux on a tablet PC?
They read slashdot too...
THIS THING CAN TURN ON A DIME, MACROSSZERO STYLE ALSO FUCK BETA, ~NYORON
Second, real HWR that is accurate, consistent, and fast enough on semi-modern hardware isn't the easiest thing to code. It's the kind of thing people do real research on, spending a lot of man-hours developing.
We already have good open source speech recognition; handwriting recognition is, if anything, a little easier. You can even reuse most of the speech recognition code. I don't think it will be a long time.
I run Debian for that very reason. But I of course run it on a real computer. I just don't see how Debian is well-suited to a keyboardless setup.
10 PRINT CHR$(205.5+RND(1)); : GOTO 10
That's the beauty of mail-order transistors, you can just build your own tablet PC!
10 PRINT CHR$(205.5+RND(1)); : GOTO 10
See my notes here;e nshots. html
http://handhelds.org/~mallum/tabletpc
and a couple of screenshots here;
http://handhelds.org/~mallum/matchbox/scre
Also it worth getting kdrive ( aka tinyX ) working as you'll then be able to rotate the display on the fly.
And I'll pour hot grits on Natalie Portman if you don't pipe down.
10 PRINT CHR$(205.5+RND(1)); : GOTO 10
Everyone is talking about the fundamental problem with using linux on a tablet pc is that it's missing certain components which you paid for when you recieved XP Tablet ed preinstalled.
I'd imagine the tablet functionality is just a central library or two and could be wine'd to work with the linux tablet drivers which have been around for a while. The writing recognition app/keyboard would be the most important piece and why shouldn't it be able to return input to linux apps just like it does for Windows?
It'd no longer be pure linux but if you can run your personal favorite WM and use all your POSIX apps, whats the difference?
Can anyone knowledgable comment?
I wonder why this is on the front page; it's no news IMO.
I've installed SuSE 8.0 Pro on a OEM tablet pc and it was a breeze. Normal x86 hardware with normal hardware, partitioned with ReiserFS and resized the Win2k NTFS one.
The only posible sticking point is power management and the touchscreen input (mine was PenMount from SALT salt.com.tw, didn't quite work as easy as expected).
Oh, and one other thing. RH 9.0 hangs during the first post install boot up. Just doesn't like it....
WiFi or Bluetooth can give (or might not, depends on mileage) the normal trouble/headache to set up. Other than that all the hardware was configured and running properly. Heck, I even installed OpenOffice and Evolution and coupled with its docking station I introduced the HR department to linux and they were impressed.
/. Where the truth
"PocketPC doesn't really have an advantage over Linux on PDAs ...
That's, ultimately, why Palm won out over Newton."
Well, PocketPC may win the PDA war.
July's issue of "PocketPC" magazine, as well as Issue 11 of "PDA Essentials", a British PDA mag published every 6 weeks, both report a Gartner study of PDA shipments in 2002. In general, PDA sales declined by 9% in 2002. However, while Palm lost 12% of it's market share (down to 55%), PocketPC *gained* 5% market share (up to 25.7%). Total sales were 12.1 million units.
I personally think Pocket PC offers a lot of sophistication that users appreciate and Palm is now scrambling to offer.
I have tried using Journal for taking notes. It makes for a slick demo, but ultimately, I find a keyboard (even a one-handed keyboard) more efficient. Note that few of the features in Journal are novel--similar software has been around for decades.
I just can't see using a keyboard at meetings. Maybe it's just a business culture thing, but it seems much more intrusive than scibbling notes on a tablet.
When I'm at my desk though, I usually hook the keyboard up to my tablet and type notes, so I agree that the keyboard can be more efficient in some situations, but at a meeting I prefer handwriting notes.
You should tell that to Microsoft: most of the software running on Tablet PC has been very poorly adapted to a pen interface and feels like it's been written for a mouse.
I gotta disagree. Sure, we need more pen-enabled apps, but there are quite a few out there that are definately written for the pen.
Franklin Covey's TabletPlanner, Alias SketchBook, Microsoft Journal, Microsoft One Note, Various Microsoft Tablet Toys, Colligo, Corel Grafigo, MS Office 2003, etc are all very pen-centric. In fact, most of those would be awkward with a mouse.
What if the Hokey-Pokey really is what it's all about?
I'm connected straight to the internet, too. :)
How do you figure you can reuse "most" of the speech recognition code for handwriting recognition? Largely a different problem. I could see using *some* of the code, the stuff that changes what is typed based on analysis of what the speaker/writing is trying to say, but that's about it...
Working toward a usable PDA environment in the spirit of Newton OS: Dynapad
You don't need to be a Kreskin to predict GNU/Linux on an Acer Tablet PC's future. The hand writing is on the wall: GNU/Linux on an Acer Tablet PC faces a bleak future. In fact there won't be any future at all for GNU/Linux on an Acer Tablet PC because GNU/Linux on an Acer Tablet PC is dying. Things are looking very bad for GNU/Linux on an Acer Tablet PC As many of us are already aware, GNU/Linux on an Acer Tablet PC continues to lose market share. Red ink flows like a river of blood. FreeBSD is the most endangered of them all.
Let's keep to the facts and look at the numbers.
GNU/Linux on an Acer Tablet PC leader Theo states that there are 7000 users of GNU/Linux on an Acer Tablet PC How many users of GNU/Linux on an Acer Tablet PC are there? Let's see. The number of GNU/Linux on an Acer Tablet PC versus NetBSD posts on Usenet is roughly in ratio of 5 to 1. Therefore there are about 7000/5 = 1400 GNU/Linux on an Acer Tablet PC users. BSD/OS posts on Usenet are about half of the volume of GNU/Linux on an Acer Tablet PC posts. Therefore there are about 700 users of BSD/OS. A recent article put GNU/Linux on an Acer Tablet PC at about 80 percent of the GNU/Linux on an Acer Tablet PC market. Therefore there are (7000+1400+700)*4 = 36400 GNU/Linux on an Acer Tablet PC users. This is consistent with the number of GNU/Linux on an Acer Tablet PC Usenet posts.
Due to the troubles of Walnut Creek, abysmal sales and so on, GNU/Linux on an Acer Tablet PC went out of business and was taken over by GNU/Linux on an Acer Tablet PC who sell another troubled OS. Now GNU/Linux on an Acer Tablet PC is also dead, its corpse turned over to yet another charnel house.
All major surveys show that GNU/Linux on an Acer Tablet PC has steadily declined in market share. GNU/Linux on an Acer Tablet PC is very sick and its long term survival prospects are very dim. If GNU/Linux on an Acer Tablet PC is to survive at all it will be among OS hobbyist dabblers. GNU/Linux on an Acer Tablet PC continues to decay. Nothing short of a miracle could save it at this point in time. For all practical purposes, GNU/Linux on an Acer Tablet PC is dead.
GNU/Linux on an Acer Tablet PC is dying
At work, I use Franklin-Covey's TabletPlanner for todo's, notes, meetings, etc. in Windows. At night I work on my KDE and LAMP projects on the family PC. I'd much rather get Linux working on this thing, so everything's in one place.
IANAL, but I would think that companies under federal antitrust monitoring are not generally allowed to 'support' (bribe) vendors of other products for the purpose of establishing their product in a new space. This would fit under the category of using their 'huge market clout to take over other markets'.
In other words, MS can't pay HP (or whomever) to build a Windows TabletPC, regardless of what they call it in the paperwork. In general a company can do this as part of various types of 'joint marketing' efforts for example, but not a monopoly under antitrust monitoring. In the extreme, I would think it could be considered collusion to bar entry by competitors.
If I'm right, I hope that the various public & private MS watchers are looking in to this.
It's easier to be a result of the past, but more fun to be a cause of the future! http://www.spacefinancegroup.com/
It is interesting that this article should come out at this time. Someone just gave me a ProGear frontpath tablet PC based on the Transmeta Crusoe. This tablet came pre-installed with a Linux distribution based on Slackware 7.1. It has a dumbed down X interface with handwriting recognition and the ability to rotate the display on the fly.
I have been hacking with it to try and make it more usable. The only tool installed on it was Netscape. After I managed to get an Xterm session up, I installed GCC and just got it working with a Cardbus 10/100 Ethernet controller.
Even though this tablet only has 64MB of memory (48MB usable after Crusoe), it still feels quite snappy, even with X and netscape running. It compiled the Linux kernel reasonably fast.
Unfortunately, ProGear was purchased by Sonic Blue and is basically no more. It looks like the later units had 128MB of RAM and came default with wireless. They had either Linux or Windows installed on them.
I also worked at one of the first developers of tablet PCs. Years ago I worked at GRiD Systems, which made tablet PCs with handwriting recognition. They even had a "notebook" where the display flipped up to reveal a keyboard underneath. What was unique, though, was that when closed, the display faced up, not down, and no rotation was necessary. Of course it had a pen interface as well. To give an idea of the timeframe, the notebook was based on a leading edge 80486 CPU and the tablet PCs were based on either an 8088 or a 80486SL processor.
This post is encrypted twice with ROT-13. Documenting or attempting to crack this encryption is illegal.
Au contraire mon ami! (Well, that's the extent of my french!)
:-) ] The result as time goes on could well be a kernel that more and more closely resembles a kind of theoretical maximum of optimal distribution of tasks.
I would argue that the continuing publicity over the last five (ten?) years showing how linux can be ported to just about everything has been important in both bringing 'geeks' into the development fold ("Hey, I want to try that", "Hey, if it's that easy, maybe I should check out Linux for this project", "Dang, somebody got linux running on my HW - no more for us!!".
It's also kept an increasing drumbeat in the business/trade press, so the suits keep hearing how "Linux works, and it's free." Reducing risk and cost are two of the most important motivations for management. So this publicity in the trade press, and even the mass media, and Linux shows up with positive impressions everywhere. So management has been subjected to this re-education continuously for years, and it's really begun to tell. Like just this week at The Register, this article shows how, with baby steps, public entities are beginning to embark on major switchovers. These would not ever have happened if the publicity of continuing success, first for the experimenters, then the innovators, now for the leading edge of the main markets.
I myself was in this position in 1995 when I was building a small ISP facility. At the time I had been using Suns. I considered using Linux and offered that as a solution as well, but said I had no experience with Linux and couldn't be as confident of the results - all true at that time. In retrospect a Linux solution would probably have been at least as good, though there were some site specifics that complicated life a bit (like a Thomas Conrad LAN)
As for practice, each of these ports has the potential of improving Linux' robustness, code portability (duh!!), and tests unanticipated paths through the code, possibly tickling hidden bugs. Thus, for example, IBM's porting efforts to their hardware has provided much valuable input into the kernel. This is true of every port, no matter how trivial.
In addition, each port will almost inevitably dramatically improve the skills of those participating in the port, increasing the pool of Linux gurus, who will be increasingly needed & valued as the Linux marketspace grows.
The only potential disadvantage I can see is the possibility of complicating the kernel development space. It's hard to make one kernel that runs everywhere well - like making a cross between a Pitts Special (aerobatic biplane) and an F-111 Stealth Fighter. But even this is really an advantage. It may help/force kernel designers to distinguish between 'essential physics' (flight dynamics) and details of implementation (fabric vs. composite) [Actually both are fly-by-wire, just one uses steel cable, the other uses copper
Of course, this is an excellent example of how the open source/free model excels. Without going into details, much like neural nets and micro-evolutionary biology this development process can be much faster at continuously approaching an optimal design at any given state of 'evolution', without knowing the actual state.
It's easier to be a result of the past, but more fun to be a cause of the future! http://www.spacefinancegroup.com/
i was wondering why he chose to rotate X. to me it would make more sense to have a widscreen than tallscreen. or was there some problem running it widescreen? anyway, its a bit pricey at $1,700
> "I allege that SCO is full of it" -Linus
(just so you know, it'm my page)
This is why I opted for the Acer over say, the HP. I can just flip the screen over and I have the keyboard and all the terminals I want. I think this is more about flexibility. When I want to read a paper, show somebody some graphs or do some calculations (i.e. write equations) the tablet is more convenient.
The problem, which some here have eluded to in various ways, is that the CLI is actually adapted to the keyboard. This makes using CLI with handwriting recognition clumsy. (I would even go so far as to say that the CLI is adapted for the qwerty keyboard -- I use dvorak.) This adaptation has happened over many decades. The widespread avalability of pen-based devices happeden essentially this year. Things need some time to adapt. The best thing at this point is to just adopt the point-and-grunt interface. Useful, though linguistically somewhat underpowered.
My plan is to write a tcl control app that has all the essential tasks I need and I can adapt it to my purposes.
For the moderators: the linked-to article is my page.
.ps or something, but with that hassle it's easier to just skip the middleware and use linux. (remember for equations, abbreviations, graphs, messy handwriting and even technical terms and names handwriting recognition is useless.)
.pdf file. write notes and cut pages and graphs and things. You think MS is going to work to support an open format like PDF? no way they will ever do so.
I thought of another point in rereading the question. WinXP failed the to be useful for reading papers due to the hibernate problem with acroread, but it would have been perfectly suitable for taking notes and doing hand calculations except for several problems:
As usual the MS ink format is closed. I esentially refuse to store information that I'm going to want in 10 years in a closed format. I could have just converted to
I want to use real network filesystems. i.e. Coda. With support for local caching and disconnected access. I don't see that happening in XP.
And lastly there's the small fact that MS is a monopolistic company with a long history of abusing it's costomers for it's own interest. e.g. I think it would be nice to integrate a pen-app with something like adobe acrobat so one could edit any
Found this on google groups:
:)
h tm l?tid=106&tid=137&tid=185
:)
:)
From: Christopher Coulter
Subject: Re: Linux on an Acer / Scribbler SC1000
Date: Mon, 09 Jun 2003 03:17:59 -0400
Message-ID:
References:
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.92/32.572
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Newsgroups: microsoft.public.windows.tabletpc
Lines: 1
Slashdotters...sigh.
http://slashdot.org/articles/03/06/09/0019236.s
I sent 5 million things in over the course of nearly 2 years, and the
first thing that they really pick up on is the Linux bit. So very
typical.
Gah. Somewhat pointless to me, per the horridly buggy Graffti-like
"text-input" thing, "Linux Wacom Project", not to mention the horrific
install process and the lack of Ink in applications. But its the geeky
thing to do, to install Linux, no matter how unworkable, unstable or
difficult it may be, just to prove it can be done. Regressive
de-evolution as a virtue. Word process all you want with vi, I want my
Office 2003.
Christopher Coulter
This is wrong. I use it every day, and it is usable. Very usable. We're rolling them out for certain people in our staff, and it works great for them too. C'mon man, don't spead FUD, it just lowers you down to their level.
Qualitas edurus commercium, nullus penitus net rimor, nullus deus beneficium
I have a couple of Tablet PCs. The handwriting recognition that comes with Tablet PC is largely useless
It's not useless, it's not even largely useless. I'm not gonna say that it's not severely flawed, but if you understand it, it's very usable. For handwriting recognition for me, it's near perfect. When it doesn't work is when I'm not typing in english (commands, or slang, etc...). Being aware of this, if you have the input panel set to two lines, you can enter commands a character at a time, alternating between the two lines. (Using standard letters, not graffiti)
What truly intrigues me are applications like this. It's a math application called MathJournal, where you write in equations, and then the computer will draw them. I'd like to see similar treatment for writing code...
The manufacturers should ensure it runs Linux if they want to sell me a new gadget that needs an OS.
Note: That doesn't mean they have to support umpteen of Linux's zillion distributions. It doesn't mean they have to preinstall one of those distributions, or even give me a choice of pre-installed distributions. All that would be cool, but it ain't necessary. (Though I'd really appreciate not having to pay for an OS that's not preinstalled.)
All I need is that they say: This gadget works with Linux Kernel version 2.x.y and the following drivers. I'll gladly take care of the rest.
Then I might even put up with a crippled modem that cannot work under Linux, just as long as they tell me beforehand.
Heard me, Dell?