Blizzard Deletes 112,000 Diablo II Accounts

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Blizzard Deletes 112,000 Diablo II Accounts

Posted by simoniker on Tuesday June 10, 2003 @04:52AM from the lack-of-prospering-hits-cheats dept.

pixelblur writes "An update over at fan site DiabloII.Net points out that Blizzard has deleted 112,000 Battle.net accounts for Diablo II." The official post from the Battle.net team in part reads: "Numerous.. ..accounts were tied to the use of a hack or cheat program while playing Diablo II on Battle.net. In keeping with our aggressive stance against cheating, we have permanently closed over 112,000 of these accounts and documented the CD keys with which they were used." This clean-up comes ahead of the forthcoming 1.10 patch for the seminal title.

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mules? by Flunitrazepam · 2003-06-10 04:55 · Score: 1

are these the so called 'mule' accounts, where people make a new character just to hold all their loot?

--
1) Your analysis is based on bad assumptions so your result is way off. 2) You're a sick bastard for fucking a horse.
1. Re:mules? by thumperward · 2003-06-10 07:08 · Score: 2, Informative
  
  Nope. Muling's both legal and harmless (okay, it harms the economy in that it reduces scarceness over time, but it doesn't result directly in the death of other characters like cloning greatswords does). ...but you'd know that, had you read the article instead of frostpissing.
  
  - Chris
2. Re:mules? by GotSanity · 2003-06-11 11:19 · Score: 1
  
  A mule account is a character or account a person creates just to hold their loot. However most Diablo 2 players do play their mule characters through the different missions just to get the loot from them.
112,000 ??!! by water-and-sewer · 2003-06-10 05:00 · Score: 4, Funny

That is one *hell* of a lot of cheaters. Way to go guys.

--
If this were Usenet, I'd killfile the lot of you.
1. Re:112,000 ??!! by KDan · 2003-06-10 05:53 · Score: 5, Informative
  
  You're assuming a 1-1 mapping between accounts and people. Many people have a lot of accounts - especially if they use cheats or tradehacks and such. So divide that by at least 10, probably more. Still a large number, but not so huge.
  
  Daniel
  
  --
  Carpe Diem
2. Re:112,000 ??!! by NeB_Zero · 2003-06-10 07:55 · Score: 2, Interesting
  
  but banning the keys makes those 112,000 accounts not so ready to return
3. Re:112,000 ??!! by KDan · 2003-06-10 09:02 · Score: 1
  
  They didn't ban the keys, they just deleted the accounts. They're just threatening to ban keys of repeat offenders.
  
  Daniel
  
  --
  Carpe Diem
4. Re:112,000 ??!! by willr7 · 2003-06-10 15:42 · Score: 1
  
  permanently closed over 112,000 of these accounts and documented the CD keys with which they were used.
  
  Way to go Blizzard!! Now all those cheaters can just create another character and continue cheating!!
  
  But honestly, no where before signing up does it ever say that a player will be permanently banned for cheating (e.g. make them buy a new game by not letting their cd key play)
  
  I would raise hell and want a $50 check in the mail if Blizzard canned me from the site,
  
  consumer laws apply to everyone, not everyone except cheaters
5. Re:112,000 ??!! by realdpk · 2003-06-10 17:16 · Score: 1
  
  I'd bet the game works just fine with the keys banned - in single player mode. I haven't seen an agreement for online play that did not allow banning for hacking...
My account has been frozen!!!!! by engineerdude · 2003-06-10 05:01 · Score: 5, Funny

OHHHH MANNNNN! What am I going to do with those virtual Bracelets of Arganoth I bought off ebay for $500?????? Farewell my NPC love.....til we meet again on a 1.10 patched server....
Good by Zelet · 2003-06-10 05:01 · Score: 2, Funny

Good because cheaters ruin games.

--
...And when they came for me, there was no one left to speak out for me." - Martin Niemoeller (1892-1984)
1. Re:Good by malakai · 2003-06-10 06:22 · Score: 4, Insightful
  
  What's even more funny about this reply is his signature:
  
  ...And when they came for me, there was no one left to speak out for me.? - Martin Niemoeller (1892-1984)
  
  So, who's speaking up for the 112k accounts that just got terminated? You think Blizzard was 100% accurate in numbers that massive? Some poor little kid just lost 4 months of hard earned levels/items.
  
  mmmm... smell that hypocrisy...
  
  -malakai
  
  --
  -Malakai
  A Dragon Lives in my Garage
2. Re:Good by Zelet · 2003-06-10 07:35 · Score: 0
  
  I think they would be careful considering those are 112,000 PAYING customers. I doublt they would sacrafice that much revenue without being pretty damn sure.
  
  --
  ...And when they came for me, there was no one left to speak out for me." - Martin Niemoeller (1892-1984)
3. Re:Good by SoVeryWrong · 2003-06-10 07:48 · Score: 3, Informative
  
  Battle.net is Free
  They already have the money from the sale of the game, there isn't any lost revenue.
4. Re:Good by Anonymous Coward · 2003-06-10 09:23 · Score: 0
  
  You think Blizzard was 100% accurate in numbers that massive? Some poor little kid just lost 4 months of hard earned levels/items.
  
  mmmm... smell that hypocrisy...
  
  Actually, I'm too busy smelling "unsubstantiated rumormongering" to smell anything else.
5. Re:Good by willr7 · 2003-06-10 15:45 · Score: 1
  
  BattleNet accepts donations through PayPal. They don't charge a fee.
Why just infrequent account purges? by HalfFlat · 2003-06-10 05:03 · Score: 4, Informative

I still can't see why they couldn't have gone through and deleted duplicated or 'bugged' items on the servers automatically. Give each item a unique id; every night check to see if the unique id turns up in more than one inventory; delete all but one.

The fact that they haven't conjures up various conspiracy theories, or (in my opinion the more likely option) demonstrates that they really don't care that much about the problem despite their press releases.

Further, the two years without a patch, despite the myriad insecurities brought to light, gives further evidence of a lack of caring. Again, despite their PR face. While this new 1.10 patch which will rejuvenate the game and all will be most welcome (presuming it ever comes), this in no way precluded security fix patches in the interim.

Patching and server-side item clean-ups would have been much more effective and much more welcome than the rare and irregular account purging that they seem to engage in instead.
1. Re:Why just infrequent account purges? by Nagatzhul · 2003-06-10 05:26 · Score: 5, Informative
  
  I think the last major patch was in December. That hardly qualifies as two years. Also, a patch came out with the expansion.
  
  If you play on Battlenet much, it downloads them automatically before you connect (Yeah, a "duh" I know, but this is someone who thinks it has been two years since the last patch.).
  
  --
  "All I want is a warm bed and a kind word and unlimited power." - Ashleigh Brilliant
2. Re:Why just infrequent account purges? by HalfFlat · 2003-06-10 05:42 · Score: 2, Informative
  
  The last major patch, 1.09 was released on the 20th of August. So, there is some small exaggeration in my statement, but close enough, surely. Perhaps I should have said 'nearly 2 years'.
  
  On the 9th of December, the very much minor patch to the patch, 1.09d, was released, and this was the last patch of any sort for Diablo II from Blizzard.
  
  Source: Blizzard Timeline.
3. Re:Why just infrequent account purges? by Dark+Nexus · 2003-06-10 05:44 · Score: 3, Informative
  
  Umm........ v1.07, the expansion release version, is only about 2 years old RIGHT NOW. There have been 2 major revisions since, and a larger number of minor revisions.
  
  --
  Dark Nexus
  "Sanity is calming, but madness is more interesting."
4. Re:Why just infrequent account purges? by Babbster · 2003-06-10 06:00 · Score: 5, Insightful
  
  The fact that they haven't conjures up various conspiracy theories, or (in my opinion the more likely option) demonstrates that they really don't care that much about the problem despite their press releases.
  Further, the two years without a patch, despite the myriad insecurities brought to light, gives further evidence of a lack of caring.
  Forgive me for asking, but why SHOULD they care? Diablo 2 has been out for three years and the expansion has been out for two.
  Now, I'll examine whether or not they do indeed care:
  Since the game's release, people have been able to play through the entire game easily offline (in other words, no significant bugs that prevent such), they've been able to do matchmaking on battle.net AND they've even been able to play games hosted on battle.net servers. During that time, they've also been provided with new special items, enhancement and correction of unbalanced skills and repair of the serious playability bugs that existed. Even more relevant, Blizzard is STILL trying to address the problem of cheaters as is clearly evidenced by THIS STORY.
  In short, Blizzard cares more about Diablo 2, a product over two years old that is now being sold at discounted prices, than most companies care about games in their first month of release. More importantly, they're demonstrating that they care about the people who are still playing by getting rid of cheaters and providing better customer care than some of the companies running MMORPGs which you actually have to pay monthly fees to play.
  Even shorter: You're wrong.
5. Re:Why just infrequent account purges? by HalfFlat · 2003-06-10 06:21 · Score: 4, Interesting
  
  Forgive me for asking, but why SHOULD they care? Diablo 2 has been out for three years and the expansion has been out for two.
  Nothing to forgive ... of course they're not obliged to care (though it'd be nice of course.) If they don't care, but claim that they do in press releases, then it is a bit hypocritical, which is generally regarded as a bad thing.
  Regarding the rest of your comment though, Blizzard really haven't done much at all for the game since since 2001. While they claim to be addressing the problem of cheaters, this claim is belied by their actions. To reiterate: very occasional account purges are not a very effective way of dealing with the problems of Battle Net.
  
  With the exception of the new features in the 1.10 patch, Blizzard do seem to have done the bare minimum possible to keep Diablo II running on Battle Net. Given they're still selling the game, making a profit on it etc. while touting the secure on-line play as a feature, it really does seem reasonable that they should be obliged to do exactly that. Again, while it would be nice if they did more, this is all we can really expect. Oh, save they they did promise regular new runewords, craft recipes and the like that never did eventuate.
  
  The 1.10 patch stuff though, I concede, has been taking resources that Blizzard didn't have to commit. Until the recent round of QA testing, it seems they've had one employee working on it for the last 18 months. In absolute terms this is a non-trivial amount of money, but it does sort of pale in comparision to the ongoing profits Blizzard are making in new sales. No judgement from me here on this issue.
  
  In short: if they cared as much as they claimed to, there would be regular patching of security problems with the game, and the cloned and bugged wreckage of the online economy would never have been an issue. They would have also followed through on their promises of game maintenance (eg, runewords etc.) Conclusion: they're less committed than they claim.
6. Re:Why just infrequent account purges? by quandrum · 2003-06-10 07:14 · Score: 2, Informative
  
  Items do have unique IDs. This was introduced in 1.09 I believe, maybe 1.08. That's one of the big problems, how late this solution was. All the Stone of Jordans (the currency in D2 because in classic you could basically buy them and they are extremely rare.) The other is that the dupers have found ways around this. Especially items that the dupers create, although I have no idea how they create completely new items.
  Unfortuantely, I don't think they could server-side item clean. This task would be beyond daunting. They don't even seem to have or want to devote teh resources to cleaning up inactive accounts. To sweep through the ?millions? of accounts and cross-check the 20-30 items average each has would be insane. So the only thing unique ID's do is prevent items from being in the same game, which should limit duping on a massive scale. However, like I said the hackers have since gotten around this on several occasions.
  while they may not be supporting very actively, they do support it. They always patch server side exploits relatively quickly, but that's not something you'd notice if you just look at nice timelines. I think they are doing a remarkable job supporting a game that is so old...
7. Re:Why just infrequent account purges? by afabbro · 2003-06-10 07:47 · Score: 2, Interesting
  
  This task would be beyond daunting. They don't even seem to have or want to devote teh resources to cleaning up inactive accounts. To sweep through the ?millions? of accounts and cross-check the 20-30 items average each has would be insane.
  No it wouldn't. There are several algorithms that would make this a simple thing to code. The actual running of the program (or query, as it's probably a database on the back end) would take some time, but it's not like they're under any deadline except one they set for themselves. Even so, if there are 2 million players (complete guess) and each has 30 items, of which half are worth examining (not health potions and such), that's only 2 mil * 15 = 30 mil rows to examine. Not small but not huge. Look at it another way - if each row is 1K, that's 30GB, which is a small database.
  
  --
  Advice: on VPS providers
8. Re:Why just infrequent account purges? by Anonymous Coward · 2003-06-10 07:54 · Score: 1, Insightful
  
  It's all about public relation...
  Blizzard is known in the online gamers community to "allow" cheating and to not really care about it, in a couple of months ( years ? ) they will sell World of warcraft, a MMORPG where cheating is forbidden, so they have to show "hey look we are taking care of cheating, we are banning them !".
  
  I used to play diablo2 pre extension ( mind you it has been 2years now ) and they were already cheats/hacks around, I have reported one bug / hack ( I am not the only one, basically everyone who played D2 reported / experienced it ) where everyone in the game were killed at the same moment, I have been told that it wasn't due to a bug but lags...when it happened 5times+ ( in hardcore game where the character when is dead is "really" dead ), it's definitly not a bug and kinda annoying one...One year after the expension was lived, they reconized this hack...
  That's just one of them, there have been at least 5critical others.
  
  So to come back to my point, they don't give a fuck about players, it's only to clean their image and money money money....
  And I will repeat again, they don't care about players, they never cared in the last 3/4 years and if they are doing that, it's just to clean their pathetic image on that point for World of Warcraft.
9. Re:Why just infrequent account purges? by SeanAhern · 2003-06-10 09:08 · Score: 1
  
  Offtopic question, but I have to ask...
  
  I strip sigs so that I can't see them. You should too!
  
  Why should I do something like that? I'm seriously curious to know why you believe that everyone should strip sigs.
10. Re:Why just infrequent account purges? by Omestes · 2003-06-10 09:46 · Score: 1
  
  Great, they delete hacks and dupes only, then those players just hack and dupe more stuff, no lesson learned. Deleting the account sends a STRONG message, especially if Blizzard makes good on threats of banning keys. If you steal something, and they just take the item that you stole, you'll just do it it again, if they stick you in jail, you MIGHT learn a lesson. (or a more apt example for bnet, if you're the towns drunken jerk, taking off your pants in public and offering crack to school children, if they just took your booze and crack, you'd get more, but if they demolished your house, and exiled you, you might just stop, especially if there was a threat of death.)
  
  And don't pull this "1% might be innocent" crap, 1% innocence means that 99% are guilty, and I'm doubting the ratio is much higher than this, since this is serverside logging recording offenders, if you have an abnormal account, that means that your CHEATING, since Bliz doesn't allow any 3rd party programs, and all copies of Diablo are the same, at least each version sends the same data, so there is no reason that you'd be abnormal, unless your doing something you shouldn't be.
  
  I'm going for BANNING everyone, screw this namby-pamby account banning crap. BAN them.
  
  Also Bliz did do the item purging thing, it didn't work, the idiots and lamers found a work around within days, deleting them cannot be worked around.
  
  Isn't the fact that their still working on an old game, with no direct profit to them a sign of caring? The much lauded 1.10 is going to be FREE, just like 1.9, 1.8 and all the other patches since 1.0. The fact that their deleting accounts is also a sign of caring, if they didn't they wouldn't even bother, no? You already forked over your $50 or $100 (plus LoD), so why bother keeping the community happy. (yes I know, so we remain attached and buy Diablo III, but the side effects are worth it.)
  
  When I *RULE* the world, ruining a kickass game will be punishable by REMOVING THEIR HANDS. CS is ruined, Diablo I was ruined, Warcraft 3 is on its way to being ruined. Just think how these people must also be in real life! If you exploit people online, and knowingly ruin a community, then you must be an ass in real life as well. And don't tell me your not.
  
  Go Bliz!
  
  --
  A patriot must always be ready to defend his country against his government. -edward abbey
11. Re:Why just infrequent account purges? by Anonymous Coward · 2003-06-10 10:30 · Score: 0
  
  Why should I do something like that? I'm seriously curious to know why you believe that everyone should strip sigs.
  
  For great justice.
12. Re:Why just infrequent account purges? by Babbster · 2003-06-10 10:32 · Score: 1
  
  Actually, it's one part that I find signature lines silly on a site where you display not only your user ID but also potentially your e-mail address and website; one part the fact that sometimes while reading a comment I'll get to the sig, find it annoying and consider the comment more unfavorably because of that; and eight parts that I found it amusing that it would be there but that I would never see it again after the initial entry. :)
13. Re:Why just infrequent account purges? by Anonymous Coward · 2003-06-10 11:10 · Score: 0
  
  You are a whiny pissant.
14. Re:Why just infrequent account purges? by Anonymous Coward · 2003-06-10 14:34 · Score: 0
  
  Actually items do have unique id's but Blizzard has some strange rules regarding them. As I know, all items do possess a specific id, and there is a "dupe scanner" that supposedly detects and deletes copies. However, to avoid pissing off the masses of people, blizzard does not delete items created before a specific patch (including there duplicates), such items are known as prepatch items. The scanner purposely ignores items possessing a prepatch id. Post patch items are readily deleted, but in the game there exist methods to alter the id (at least temporarily) to avoid the scanner. Basically there current implemented method only works character by character per account, and only performs a scan/deletion when said character actually enters a game. As mentioned before, prepatch items are not deleted (blizzard doesnt want to punish unsuspecting players for trading for them or something, at least thats what they say), and the more knowledgable players know how to alter post patch item ids while they are in a game to avoid deletion. Thats as much as I know.
15. Re:Why just infrequent account purges? by andrewski · 2003-06-10 14:52 · Score: 1
  
  This way it'll hurt. The purging will in no way provide a real punishment for cheating.
  
  This way it at leat costs them their game license. Next time don't cheat!
16. Re:Why just infrequent account purges? by dark_inchworm · 2003-06-10 16:45 · Score: 1
  
  "Regarding the rest of your comment though, Blizzard really haven't done much at all for the game since since 2001."
  
  That's a little thing we all like to call "crunch time for War3," and then a few months later, its expansion. You may say, "Yeah, well, that was Blizzard Irvine; Blizzard North developed Diablo II," but... they don't round up the entire development team of a certain game to work on a patch. I'm pretty sure noone does. They gather a handful of people from either company who work bit by bit, and these folks try their best to build the next patch. Then, when something's wrong with a more recent title (Warcraft III), some of these same people are redirected toward building a patch for that title instead, and a higher priority is placed on it. After that, they can return to the D2 patching goodness.
  
  Also note that company test cycles for the patch last 2-3 weeks, and if *any* error is spotted, they work on another build and go through yet another 2-3 week test cycle.
  
  In addition, whether you realize it or not, Blizzard also does server-side updates apart from the standard patching which fix bugs/security/cheating problems exclusively in multiplayer. And believe it or not, they don't announce every little thing. For the most part, they're discreet in regards to the server-side work.
17. Re:Why just infrequent account purges? by Anonymous Coward · 2003-06-10 20:46 · Score: 0
  
  Items do have unique IDs; recent dupe hacks, I imagine, have simply confused any item dropper they could (as a long since patched example, the imbue quest). Important question, though. Person A dupes a valued unique. He trades dozens of them to other, unwitting players for their various valued unique items. In the morning, when that scan runs, who gets hurt? Innocent traders or the malicious duper?
  
  It's actually funny you mention that, some time ago I was a horrible duper person - I had two pieces of equipment that I duped for my entire roster of characters (8). I made a few spares, in case any got lost. One day, one of the dupe scanners went live, and bam!... most of them disappeared.
  
  I discussed the frequent versus infrequent account purges with a friend of mine. My theory is that if Blizzard were to do daily purges of however many they catch that day (arbitrary number: 100), the message everyone would take away is - "The odds of them catching me are 100:1,000,000!" Keeping in mind that the average person isn't the best number cruncher, which comes off as a scarier message: 100 a day, or 112k every so often?
  
  Further, a good reason NOT to delete said duped items is overhead. If they haven't sealed down how they are being created (and done so without introducing new bugs, see an article on D2's random number picker for item mods), what's the point? Moreover, it's fairly clear that just nailing the present dupe source(s) shut doesn't really help - more will be found. The details of 1.10 make it sound like a new item generation system of sorts is entering the works - more sense to make it airtight than plug old, and soon to be obsolete, leaks.
  
  As for the two years without a patch, and this notion of caring... if you bought Diablo 2 when it came out, and the expansion when that came out, and have been playing it on anything resembling a regular basis from those days to this, don't you think you've far exceeded anything the industry considers reasonable expectation of value?
  
  For what it's worth, I also became a botter person, and have been caught in this second wave of banning (or I have become an extremely lousy typist). Unlike, it seems, the majority of the community, I am not terribly distraught by it. Loved the game, I may play the first ladder season of 1.10 (which would require a fresh start anyway), but I've gotten my mileage. Time to trade it in.
  
  But, you know. Since I duped (a LORE SHAKO, ooOo), maphacked, and botted, I am clearly one of the worst, I ruined B.net's trading economy, and I'd like to take this moment to apologize to everyone here for it. You know, because even though I haven't ever acquired any SOJs or Vexing charms, I must be a part of the problem.
18. Re:Why just infrequent account purges? by Sevidrac · 2003-06-11 03:08 · Score: 1
  
  I seem to recall that the update for Diablo II team is mostly just one person. I don't remember the article I read it in, but he was in charge of the development and planning and etc.
  
  --
  What luck for rulers, that men do not think. - Adolph Hitler
19. Re:Why just infrequent account purges? by Anonymous Coward · 2003-06-11 04:04 · Score: 0
  
  Why should they care?
  
  Look up the number of games on battle.net.
  Look up the number of players.
  
  Diablo 2 has over 100000 players at any time.
  The game is 3 years old.
  
  Should they announce a second expansion pack for a 3 years old game, they would still sell millions of copys.
  
  They owe it to people that pay for their product to support them in every way possible. If the game is still succesful (and it is) and still sells (and it does, top ten selling games appearances in last 3-4 months), they sould put more manpower to the task I say.
Ebay by moc.tfosorcimgllib · 2003-06-10 05:51 · Score: 4, Interesting

What ever happens to locked out copies sold on e-bay?
1. Re:Ebay by Bagels · 2003-06-10 05:58 · Score: 1
  
  Oh, don't worry about them. They can just download "1337 k3y c0dez generator"s off of Kazaa or the peer-to-peer program of your choice. Then Blizzard's support staff will begin to get emails like this: "your key generator doesn't work right, i can't play online. i will never buy a game from blizzard again".
  
  --
  --- Bwah?
2. Re:Ebay by Frac · 2003-06-10 06:42 · Score: 1
  
  What ever happens to locked out copies sold on e-bay?
  
  Caveat Emptor. Don't buy them on ebay then.
3. Re:Ebay by CTalkobt · 2003-06-10 09:18 · Score: 1
  
  >> What ever happens to locked out copies sold on e-bay?
  
  > Caveat Emptor. Don't buy them on ebay then.
  
  So I should buy them from the Yahoo! Stores then? :-)
  
  --
  There's a gorilla from Manilla whose a fella that stinks of vanilla and has salmonella.
4. Re:Ebay by Anonymous Coward · 2003-06-10 14:09 · Score: 0
  
  They work fine with bnetd. And despite the best efforts of the DMCA-wielding jackbooted thugs at Blizzard, it works fine.
Map-Hack by KDan · 2003-06-10 05:59 · Score: 3, Insightful

They're being a bit silly there. From playing occasionally, I can vouch that about 1/2 of the people who still play Diablo 2 (so much time after it was first released) use maphack as a convenience. And I think that most of these will simply stop playing if maphack is disabled. So one of two things. Either:

1) They're trying to scare people, cause they can't really do shit to detect maphack actually, or
2) They don't want to support D2 anymore and are trying to chase away all those people who still play to decrease the load on their servers (and hence how much it costs to maintain them)

But if 2) is correct, then why are they bothering to release so many new features in 1.10? Which leaves possibility 1), or even possibility 3) (they're just stupid).

Daniel

--
Carpe Diem
1. Re:Map-Hack by spongebob · 2003-06-10 07:02 · Score: 1
  
  After the way Bungie snuffed out Myth 2, I can see your second point being much more concievable. I don't think that they care much, they have the money already and at this point, it's maintenence which every developer knows is not much fun. Adding all the new features might just be a way to get some of the minimal stuff out the door or to bring people back to the game, or perhaps to run out their last print of the game. Who knows, but I do not put much stock in the need to prevent cheaters in D2. I think its actuall a message for Blizzard groupies about trying this kind of thing in Worlds of Warcraft or any of the other seminal titles they release.
2. Re:Map-Hack by thumperward · 2003-06-10 07:15 · Score: 3, Interesting
  
  I've never used Maphack. Then again, I don't play until I reach level 99 or rely on trading for duplicated Uniques, like "1/2 of the people who still play Diablo 2".
  
  Maphack may be benign but it's still a lame cheat. I've been PKed exactly once outside of a duel in several hundred hours of Realm play, so I don't buy that it's necessary. Good riddance to several hundred thousand maphacking Burizons if they leave because they actually have to guess what their companions are wearing.
  
  - Chris
3. Re:Map-Hack by brettw · 2003-06-10 07:32 · Score: 3, Interesting
  And I think that most of these will simply stop playing if maphack is disabled.
  You're kidding, right? I can't believe anybody who is still playing D2 after all this time would quit over maphack. There are two big reasons I can think of that people use maphack:
  
  Trying to see what other's equipment is. Come on, is this really that important?
  
  Speeding up Mephisto/Baal Runs. Assuming anybody really does this that much anymore, it will be nerfed during the next patch anyway, as they've stated they will be trying to discourage the farming of certain bosses.
  
  I got the impression that they can't disable it, just detect it. This post is a threat saying that people will be banned in the future if it is detected. Did people leave in droves the last time accounts were deleted? Perhaps some, but there are still a lot of people interested. I'm looking forward to the patch myself. I wish they would do more against hacks and cheats but I'm glad they're still working on a patch for this old game as its still better than any of the new games I've tried to play lately.
4. Re:Map-Hack by KDan · 2003-06-10 08:59 · Score: 1
  
  You're missing out on the main uses. I've actually never used it to look at other people's equipment - I don't give a shit about this use. However, after doing all the damn acts so many times, I'm not interested in blindly finding my way around the act having to kill every one of the pesky little buggers in every corner. I happen to hate doing the Arcane Sanctuary in A2, it's my least favourite map. With maphack, good news, I don't have to anymore - I can find the right tomb without it.
  
  Maphack basically means that I don't have to explore levels so thoroughly anymore, I can just go straight to where I want to go, because I've got the map. That to me is the primary use.
  
  The secondary use, one of the 'nice features' they should really have in the normal map anyway, is showing monsters on the map. When I'm doing cow runs with my javazon, it helps tremendously. When I'm wandering around a level looking for xp, it helps tremendously. The fact that it shows what bonuses minor bosses have is also extremely useful. Like everyone else, I hate LEB's, and this way I can avoid some of them.
  
  Finally, possibly one of the most useful (but the one Blizzard is least likely to like) is speeding (by several hours, probably) rushing. Can you imagine how long rushing someone through A2 would take without having the maps?
  
  Nobody's forcing you to use maphack if you don't want it. Some people simply can't be arsed to go through the tedium of finding their way around levels anymore. Some people simply like the comfort of seeing monsters on the map. Some people like to power-play and do rushes and such to go levelling in the cow level instead of normally through the acts. Does that hurt anyone? Not really.
  
  Frankly, I've played for a long time, and there's some things I've simply done so many times that they're just not fun anymore. If I'm forced to do them because some people just can't take that others don't find fun anymore things they still find fun, then screw Diablo. I've talked with people in games and everyone who uses it loves maphack, and it is a central aspect of the way they play. If maphack goes, so will they.
  
  Daniel
  
  --
  Carpe Diem
5. Re:Map-Hack by KDan · 2003-06-10 09:17 · Score: 1
  
  1) Maphack has nothing to do with PKing (not in my experience anyway), everything to do with getting maps (duh).
  
  2) No one is forcing you to play until lvl 99. Some people enjoy it. What kind of spoilsport are you to tell them they're wrong? Are they harming you? No.
  
  If Blizzard goes after cheats who use tradehacks and other evil things to rob people blind of their hard-earned equipment, GOOD. These people get their enjoyment out of hurting other people.
  
  If Blizzard goes after people who use D2hackit to make bots that gather equipment 24/7 and thus wreck the economy of scarcity, sort of ok. These people don't hurt others directly but they decrease the fun of finding great equipment because there's just no way you can compete with them.
  
  If Blizzard goes after people who have moved on from being all excited about discovering a map, not OK. These people aren't hurting anyone, in any way. They don't force anyone else to do like them. They don't rob people of their fun. They just go through the acts a bit quicker than the rest.
  
  And believe me, they are at least 1/2 of all players. You may not know it, because you're probably still stuck in normal or nightmare difficulty, but there's large numbers of people who play with maphack and thoroughly enjoy it. About 4/5ths of all Hell difficulty games are cow runs - and all those who do cow runs are power players, who will definitely be using maphack.
  
  Daniel
  
  --
  Carpe Diem
6. Re:Map-Hack by Omestes · 2003-06-10 09:53 · Score: 1
  
  Um... Don't you have to go through the Arcane Sanctuary to GET to the right tomb? You need the porthole to GET there, you need to kill the Summoner to get the porthole, you have to go through the AS to GET TO the Summoner.
  
  --
  A patriot must always be ready to defend his country against his government. -edward abbey
7. Re:Map-Hack by KDan · 2003-06-10 10:17 · Score: 1
  
  It's not very hard to go into a game and ask someone to get you the waypoints you need. Hell, in rushes you go through the entire game, in all three difficulty modes, without getting a single waypoint.
  
  See, you and me have a completely different way of playing the game. I used to do the same as you, but then I got bored of it. Now I got a bit quicker, skipping the parts which I know I don't like to spend more of my precious time on the parts which I know I like. I obviously am not hurting you since you weren't even aware of how I could do what I do. So what harm am I to you?
  
  Daniel
  
  --
  Carpe Diem
8. Re:Map-Hack by thumperward · 2003-06-10 10:55 · Score: 1
  
  1) Maphack has nothing to do with PKing (not in my experience anyway), everything to do with getting maps (duh).
  
  What a lot of drivel. Maphack's primary use is inventory-sniffing, that's why people get so attached to it. Rare are the BNet players who bother venturing into areas such as the Spider Forests where one actually NEEDS a map after they've gotten to the other side of them. The vast majority of players simply hang around open areas like Act 5 or do boss runs, and the only reason they use Maphack is so they can immediately quit if anyone with hacked / super equipment hostiles them.
  
  And believe me, they are at least 1/2 of all players. You may not know it, because you're probably still stuck in normal or nightmare difficulty, but there's large numbers of people who play with maphack and thoroughly enjoy it. About 4/5ths of all Hell difficulty games are cow runs - and all those who do cow runs are power players, who will definitely be using maphack.
  
  Yes, Maphack cuts down cow run time by ensuring it takes a fraction of the time for someone to get Wirt's leg and open the portal. Personally if I were a Blizzard employee I'd be rather pissed off at having spent so much time designing a game world just so that everybody over a certain level spent their entire time running around a secret level for experience.
  
  I have no time for people who deliberately exploit flaws in the code for advantage. This includes people who dupe Burizas and sell them on eBay, but also those who do nothing but cow runs from level eight onwards and half a day later start running around open games at lv 85 killing players.
  
  - Chris
9. Re:Map-Hack by thumperward · 2003-06-10 11:04 · Score: 1
  
  Because people like you (i.e. rushers who've never even *seen* large chunks of each tileset) are the ones who eventually get bored / lucky with their lot of endless runs for equipment and experience and then start selling things on eBay, spoiling the economy by maintaining dozens of mules worth of equipment for bartering and player-killing. You aren't even playing in the spirit of the game as-is. Blizzard rebalanced skills with each patch to make the game competitive for *everyone*, and cutting off avenues of easy riches is just another way of balancing.
  
  Just IMAGINE if all of a sudden *every* rusher dropped dead and everyone had to find their way through each act alone, picking up equipment from the fallen in drips and drabs and trading their legit junk for other people's legit junk. The D2 fora would not consist of people asking what exact selection of one-in-three-million-boss-drops equipment they need for mathematically perfect cow-killing, for a start.
  
  - Chris
10. Re:Map-Hack by Omestes · 2003-06-10 11:11 · Score: 1
  
  Never claimed you were bothering me. I really don't care what people do, as long as it doesn't disrupt my game. I personally HATE rushing, to me it defeats the purpose of playing.
  
  But then again I almost completely gave up on bnet, and stick to single player, at least until 1.10
  
  --
  A patriot must always be ready to defend his country against his government. -edward abbey
11. Re:Map-Hack by KDan · 2003-06-10 11:25 · Score: 1
  
  Mate, I saw every chunk of each tileset when Diablo 2 came out and I played it plenty for several months first in single and then in multi-player, until I had seen so much of each tileset that I could still see it when I blinked. I've probably seen more of each tileset than you have.
  
  As for ebay, I don't sell shit and, like you, I think people who do (and especially people who buy diablo 2 equipment on ebay) are cunts (the sellers) and idiots (the buyers). I have 4 characters in one account, and none of them is a mule. I never pkill, I just don't find it fun or even challenging, after having played MUDs where pkilling was far more thrilling than "oh, I have to find another game to do a bloody foothills run now cause this spoilsport came to kill us, what a bastard". It was more like "shit, I got killed, I lost a lot of hard-gained xp, and if I lost a level I probably lost a constitution point as well, and maybe other stats, not to mention all my (truly rare and hard to find, because limited in overall number) equipment". That was thrilling, especially since there was no warning whatsoever - but even then I only did it very sparingly. Pkilling on diablo 2 is for lamers - except maybe in Hardcore, but as I don't play hardcore I wouldn't know.
  
  I play in the spirit of the game when I feel like it. My javazon went through normal and part of nightmare with no help from higher level (except for A3, which is just a pain in the ass, let's be honest). After that I got someone to help me through nightmare and hell, and now I'm enjoying lightning-furying cows in the cow level. Why is that a problem to you?
  
  Finally, good item drops are not that rare, so long as you have enough magic-find equipment on. I only have a 4-topaz armour on my ama and I find about one unique item every two or three cow levels.
  
  And I use maphack. Boohoo. Let me use maphack and don't use it if you don't want to. Who are you to dictate the way I should enjoy my games?
  
  Daniel
  
  --
  Carpe Diem
12. Re:Map-Hack by KDan · 2003-06-10 11:32 · Score: 1
  
  What a lot of drivel. Maphack's primary use is inventory-sniffing, that's why people get so attached to it. Rare are the BNet players who bother venturing into areas such as the Spider Forests where one actually NEEDS a map after they've gotten to the other side of them. The vast majority of players simply hang around open areas like Act 5 or do boss runs, and the only reason they use Maphack is so they can immediately quit if anyone with hacked / super equipment hostiles them.
  
  While I can't argue about inventory-sniffing, which is a feature I don't use and I wish they left out of maphack, I think you need to broaden your perspective a bit. I'm not talking about going *back* to areas which are hard to find your way around, but about going there in the first place. I've gone there zillions of times in the past before I had maphack, with all the characters I've had back then, and now I don't want to do that anymore because I don't find it fun. At all.
  
  Anyway, how the fuck would you know what people use maphack for when you've already admitted to never having used it? Sounds like a load of hot air to me.
  
  Daniel
  
  --
  Carpe Diem
13. Re:Map-Hack by KDan · 2003-06-10 11:38 · Score: 1
  
  I don't like rushing either except under certain circumstances. Unless I'm making a character for a very specific purpose (for instance right now I'm making a nova-sorc for the specffic purpose of rushing other people because my other sorc just doesn't cut it), I try to at least play through the normal difficulty without rushing, because that's what's fun about diablo 2. So far, out of 4 characters in this latest round of diablo-2 playing (having lost the account I used a few months ago, as I can't remember the account name :-P), I got the first character, a sorc, rushed, because I wanted to acquire some decent equipment to be able to enjoy the game. Then I went through normal and the beginning of nightmare normally with my javazon, and then got myself rushed to hell cows cause I couldn't be arsed anymore. The other two chars are the (atm) lvl 6 nova-sorc who still needs to be rushed through hell, and a druid who will go through all the levels normally, as he has all the equipment he needs.
  
  I definitely see what you mean about rushing - it spoils the game. Sometimes, though, you want to take a shortcut for a specific purpose. I don't see why that's a problem to anyone else though.
  
  Daniel
  
  --
  Carpe Diem
14. Re:Map-Hack by joshsisk · 2003-06-10 11:59 · Score: 1
  
  Hey, why get mad at Sammy Sosa for using a corked bat while you're at it? Or get mad at bodybuilders who use steroids? After all, they are just competing on their own terms - why get mad at them?
15. Re:Map-Hack by KDan · 2003-06-10 12:42 · Score: 1
  
  And where have you seen Diablo 2 Competitions with cash prizes? Or people whose job it is to play Diablo 2?
  
  The point of Diablo 2 is enjoyment by playing the game. Do you get mad at backyard body-builders who use steroids? The only thing to be mad at there is that the stupid buggers are destroying their bodies in the process. In the case of maphack, there's no permanent damage that I'm aware of :-)
  
  Daniel
  
  --
  Carpe Diem
16. Re:Map-Hack by Carnivorous+Carrot · 2003-06-10 12:56 · Score: 1
  
  "Rushes"? Hehe, sounds like fun! After playing the game through about six times in single player (Twice thru with the same necro, three and a half with the same barb, a few others once) I can see how this would be more what people would do.
  
  It would make a site to see. I wonder what the Quake Done Quick guys are up to?
  
  --
  "Has [being a kidnapped teenage girl, raped repeatedly for months] changed you?" - Katie Couric to Elizabeth Smart
17. Re:Map-Hack by thumperward · 2003-06-10 13:34 · Score: 1
  
  Because I actually talk to people in-game, in the chat rooms and on the forums. And if you don't find it fun, go play another game: That excuse is abut as legitimate as using duped super-jewellry because you don't think [i]dying[/i] is very fun.
  
  - Chris
18. Re:Map-Hack by brettw · 2003-06-10 15:50 · Score: 1
  
  Fair enough. I'm not sure you're representative of those on battle-net now. Certainly maphack doesn't hurt me--I don't duel and don't care to compete with others for items.
19. Re:Map-Hack by KDan · 2003-06-10 18:16 · Score: 1
  
  When will you get it through your thick little skull that I don't use duped items or shit like that? Do you have enough grey matter inside that skull to understand that there can be maphack users that don't fit into your personal definition of what maphack users should look and act like?
  
  Grow some brains, dude.
  
  Daniel
  
  --
  Carpe Diem
20. Re:Map-Hack by KDan · 2003-06-10 18:20 · Score: 1
  
  I never said I was representative. What I'm implying is that the "bad" people who need to be controlled are not "the people who use maphack", but "the people who use other cheat programs". So banning people who use maphack is stupid.
  
  Daniel
  
  --
  Carpe Diem
21. Re:Map-Hack by pezpunk · 2003-06-11 02:38 · Score: 1
  
  nah man, you are wrong. it's just as bad as duping items yourself. you're using a third party program to cheat, end of story. hope you get banned.
  
  --
  i could live a little longer in this prison
22. Re:Map-Hack by brettw · 2003-06-11 04:22 · Score: 1
  
  I never said I was representative. What I'm implying is that the "bad" people who need to be controlled are not "the people who use maphack", but "the people who use other cheat programs". So banning people who use maphack is stupid.
  
  I thought your original point was that tons of people would stop playing if map-hack was disabled (in some way, via bans or whatever). That's what I was questioning (being a few months removed from playing much on bnet I am not even necessarily disagreeing, just questioning). To answer whether or not that is true means your arguments must be representative of the bnet d2 population.
  
  I agree that the bad people who need to be controlled are not maphack users.
23. Re:Map-Hack by scot4875 · 2003-06-11 04:29 · Score: 1
  
  I always love how people complain about all the cheats that they don't use. If they use a cheat/hack, then that particular one becomes OK for whatever reason they've created to justify it.
  
  You'll never win an argument with these people or convert them. I find it best to ignore them and play with non 'power-gamers.'
  
  --Jeremy
  
  --
  Jesus was a liberal
24. Re:Map-Hack by PainKilleR-CE · 2003-06-11 04:50 · Score: 1
  
  Rushes"? Hehe, sounds like fun!
  
  When you see a lvl 4 character in Nightmare Act V expecting you to do all of the work to get him to Hell mode, you might start to think differently about the matter.
  
  Then again, I like watching them die, over and over and over again while the 2 or 3 people that actually play the game work on clearing the area.
  
  --
  -PainKilleR-[CE]
25. Re:Map-Hack by joshsisk · 2003-06-11 09:48 · Score: 1
  
  I've played in videogame competitions with cash prizes, though not Diablo 2 (I've never played it). I've also played in games and enjoyed having a high score or ladder rank - things I assume Diablo 2 has.
  
  The point is, any sport or game becomes unfun for those competing fairly when others compete unfairly.
26. Re:Map-Hack by KDan · 2003-06-11 18:50 · Score: 1
  
  Oh, I believe those who use other hacks as well as maphack will likely stop playing too if maphack gets removed.
  
  Daniel
  
  --
  Carpe Diem
27. Re:Map-Hack by DrEldarion · 2003-06-11 19:37 · Score: 1
  
  1) They're trying to scare people, cause they can't really do shit to detect maphack actually
  
  Riiiiiiiiiiiight. Detecting it can be as simple as scanning the process list for d2maphack.exe.
  
  -- Dr. Eldarion --
Obligatory... by BMonger · 2003-06-10 06:05 · Score: 5, Funny

I felt a great disturbance in the Force, as if 112,000 voices suddenly cried out in terror and were suddenly silenced.
Awesome by lh0628 · 2003-06-10 06:28 · Score: 3, Interesting

This is great news for any loyal legitimate D2 gamers. Being one myself, it's very frustrating dealing with all the dupe/hack/bot activities going on on BattleNet. After 4 or 5 yeras of release, DiabloII can still climb up to the top TEN game sale per week. That shows how good the game is. And Blizzard is still releasing patches after patches showing that they do still care about us gamers fans.
Re:Article Text by thumperward · 2003-06-10 07:17 · Score: 2, Insightful

Incidentally, idiot mods should note that seeing as Battle.net is hosting several hundred thousand games at the moment it is unlikely to have Slashdotting troubles. Go mod a goatse up for kicks or something instead.

- Chris
Re:Mmmmm....... by Anonymous Coward · 2003-06-10 07:55 · Score: 0

(Score: 5, Fact)
Bah! by Anonymous Coward · 2003-06-10 07:57 · Score: 1, Funny

Ah, D2 who cares... All the real hardcore gamers I know still play Warcraft II BNE :)
1. Re:Bah! by crisco · 2003-06-10 08:28 · Score: 2, Funny
  
  Na, your friends are pansies. The real hard core gamers are playing WarcraftII over Kali.
  
  --
  Bleh!
2. Re:Bah! by AvantLegion · 2003-06-10 17:28 · Score: 1
  
  Kali! Now that was fun. Best $20 I ever spent, I say.
  Kali has been revived, too. I don't know how worthwhile it is, but check out http://www.kali.net to find out.
3. Re:Bah! by Anonymous Coward · 2003-06-10 17:53 · Score: 0
  
  Nah, it's nothing but bloodlusted ogre rush after rush... no fun there.
Battle.net: you get what you pay for by harborpirate · 2003-06-10 08:32 · Score: 2, Insightful

Battle.net is still a free service.

Why hasn't Diablo 2 gotten a lot of attention/bugfixes/patches by Blizzard over the last year or so? Not many people are buying Diablo 2. So how does Blizzard pay an army of developers to fix the problems in Diablo 2? Well, either from the company coffers or the profits of some other game. If I were Blizzard, would I commit more than a few developers to these issues? No.

Would I claim I was battling cheaters when I deleted over a hundred thousand cheater accounts from my system? Yes.

Quite simple, really. Is Blizzard committed to stopping cheating in Diablo 2? Yes, as committed as they can afford to be.

--
// harborpirate
// Slashbots off the starboard bow!
whoa by jeramybsmith · 2003-06-10 08:51 · Score: 1

Allofasudden, +X to light radius items mean something. Maphack gets rid of the "fogofwar" and that means a lot for characters that rely on avoiding enemies to survive.

--
Never overestimate the end user. -jeramy b. smith
Mod parent up!!!! by Anonymous Coward · 2003-06-10 10:58 · Score: 0

What great memories. I heard that asshole Schlonglor works at Blizzard now.
Diablo a safe place by ConfusedVorlon · 2003-06-10 23:24 · Score: 1

From the bottom of Blizzards annoucement;

As always, thank you for your continued support; with your help we have been able to keep Battle.net a fun and safe place to play Blizzard games.

If they wanted it to be safe, they'd use some Raid on those monsters and confiscate all the nasty weapons that people carry around with them.

--
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