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Apple Sued Over Unix Trademark
Jerrry writes "CNET News reports The Open Group is suing Apple over unlicensed use of the Unix trademark, after Apple used the term in conjunction with its Mac OS X marketing. Apple, meanwhile, is countersuing to have the Unix trademark declared invalid because the term has become generic."
Unix has become a generic term. Removing trademark status would benefit not only Apple, but the free Unixes, Linux and the BSDs.
Yes, in other news the FGA (Fruit Growers of America) is filing suit against Apple.
"Apple" is pretty damn generic term... get off soapbox!
Davak
After all, Apple has trademarks of their own, how would they like it if MS or some other company started using them without a license?
AC comments get piped to
You know I love Apple as much as the next guy in many respects, although not one of the fanatics who have fallen into the apple marketing hype or a part of the cult(As I love my windows 2000 box as well) and Linux. Well, I love computers.
Anyway, Apple is getting a little taste of it's own medicine. Didn't they sue somone over them copying, or making a similar color scheme on a pc case?
And haven't they sued before for things just a frivilous. Apple is fanatic about protecting their ip.
But maybe they are wrong here.
Puto
The Revolution Will Not Be Televised
I thought that apple paid the Open Group to certify themselves as a Unix, around the time that OS X came out.
What am I missing here?
... because if you took this stuff any more seriously, you'd have to cry.
SCO suing IBM
Open Group suing Apple
Apple suing Open Group
It's starting to sound like a game of "Six Degrees".
A/UX was Apple's first try at a Unix operating system and was based on System V Release 2.2. But that wasn't where Apple stopped. They added custom extensions from Releases 3 and 4, and the networking and filesystem were from 4.2/4.3BSD. The GUI was System 7.0.1 (for A/UX 3.0.1, the version I use) and Apple's own version of the X Window System called MacX. I would say that this is Unix.
Another example (closer to Mac OS X) is NEXTSTEP/OPENSTEP. This OS uses the Mach kernel developed at Carnegie Mellon University with major contributions from Avie Tevanian. This Kernel had no natural interface, so to stay with standards, BSD was used as an interface layer (specifically 4.3BSD was licensed to be used). For a GUI, NeXT developed their own application environment (that would one day become Cocoa) and used Adobe's Display Postscript as the display engine (which Apple would replace after Rhapsody with Quartz, which used Apple's Display PDF in place of Display Postscript). There was no version of X Windows shipped with NeXT systems, but a number of people made versions for NeXT systems (much like people are doing today for Mac OS X). I would say that this is Unix.
I, personally, have a hard time not considering anything that uses either System V or BSD to be Unix. These have been the pillars of this OS, and when not used have been the models for other operating systems. I would not consider POSIX to be a good way to judge a system as being Unix because Windows NT 4.0 was POSIX compliant and it is not Unix.
There is no god
Apple, meanwhile, is countersuing to have the Unix trademark declared invalid because the term has become generic. Thank the great good lord someone with clout is finally going to push this position. Incidentally I've only ever seen Apple use the phrase 'Unix-based' or 'unix-like' in their advertising literature, but I haven't been exhaustive by any means. It's good to see them at least put up a good fight in the name of the greater good (i.e., stopping Unix snobs from weilding that particular sledgehammer against Linux) rather than just capitulating and signing a cheque, which they're certainly able to do.
___
Cogito cogito, ergo cogito sum.
SCO sues Open Group for illegal suing over the Unix trademark.
Followed by:
SCO sues Mr. Sketch for using the term 'Unix' in a public discussion forum without their prior permissions.
Things you think are in the Constitution, but are not.
If most people look on it that way, the trademark is probably generic.
Now if IBM would just sue Kevin Bacon, you'd really have something there...
Vino, gyno, and techno -Bruce Sterling
Apple has countersued, asking a judge to declare that the trademark is invalid, because the term Unix has become generic.
And it has. So many companies have been marketing and otherwise throwing around the name "UNIX" for so long now -- what do you think the chances are that The Open Group formally licensed their trademark to each and every one of them?
The timing and selection of this lawsuit reeks of convenience.
The coolest voice ever.
The day just isn't the same without a UNIX related lawsuit.... lately I've been thinking the medieval witch test (the water drowning one) could easily find itself a new vocation in detecting corrupt lawyers.
Do not spread "09 F9 11 02 9D 74 E3 5B D8 41 56 C5 63 56 88 C0" over the internet, thank you.
According to their web pages, NetBSD and OpenBSD are "UNIX-like operating system[s]", and FreeBSD is "derived from BSD UNIX". Since parts of OSX are from FreeBSD, I could see why they can say Unix-based.
I commend them for taking it to court instead of settling, but surely they should have known that the *BSDs started because of these same issues with the Unix owners. I wonder why they stepped into this minefield.
(http://catb.org/~esr/writings/unix-koans/unix-nat ure.html)
Master Foo discourses on the Unix Nature
A student said to Master Foo: âoeWe are told that the firm called SCO holds true dominion over Unix.â
Master Foo nodded.
The student continued, âoeYet we are also told that the firm called OpenGroup also holds true dominion over Unix.â
Master Foo nodded.
âoeHow can this be?â asked the student.
Master Foo replied:
âoeSCO indeed has dominion over the code of Unix, but the code of Unix is not Unix. OpenGroup indeed has dominion over the name of Unix, but the name of Unix is not Unix.â
âoeWhat, then, is the Unix-nature?â asked the student.
Master Foo replied:
âoeNot code. Not name. Not mind. Not things. Always changing, yet never changing.â
âoeThe Unix-nature is simple and empty. Because it is simple and empty, it is more powerful than a typhoon.â
âoeMoving in accordance with the law of nature, it unfolds inexorably in the minds of programmers, assimilating designs to its own nature. All software that would compete with it must become like to it; empty, empty, profoundly empty, perfectly void, hail!.â
Upon hearing this, the student was enlightened.
It has definitely become a generic term. I'd like to see the courts support Apple so that we can all use "Unix" without fear.
e a generic term. Removing trademark status would benefit not only Apple, but the free Unixes, Linux and the BSDs.
When was the last time that some company came out with Unix v9.0 or whatever?
Slipping Away...
In any case, no company is required to pay more than $110,000, said Graham Bird, vice president of marketing for The Open Group.
You know the legal battle will cost much, much more than that...but instead of doing what makes economic sense, they're doing what's right, and taking the burden off the rest of us. Because you know that if the Open Group succeeds, they're probably going to start suing red-hat and other linux distros for explaining that linux is "unix based" in their FAQ.
Warning: Opinions known to be heavily biased.
When someone asks you about "UNIX," what's the first thing that comes to mind? BSD? A Class of Operating Systems? Linux? SCO? Sun? IBM? Apple? DOS?
I'll tell you what the answer is NOT: The OPEN GROUP. I don't even have a clue what they do. Most people have never heard of them, even most people who know what unix is.
Also, Apple is accurately describing their OS when they say it is Unix-Based.
The mark should be generic.
a toilet papaer brand called SCO with no trademark problems.
Actually, that's reserved for Authentic SCO Stock(TM)
Belief is the currency of delusion.
Eric Raymond doesn't own the word "open" any more than Richard Stallman has the right to go around insisting that people are using the word "free" incorrectly. Let them invent their own words.
What I'm listening to now on Pandora...
Neither Linux nor the BSDs infringe upon this trademark, and of course the Open Group has made significant contributions to the Linux Standard Base (about 95% of the test-suite software, I'm told) and has been working on an Open Source Strategy with me since last year. You'll like it. It's in internal review now.
If you would like to send a message to the Open Group, I would not be a bad intermediary to use. Please write to me at bruce @ perens.com . I am on the road right now and will not be able to engage in a long debate on Slashdot, so email will be best.
Thanks
Bruce
Bruce Perens.
GNU's Not Unix...except on alternate tuesdays.
I think I need an ibuprofen now!
I woke up this morning and ate my Unix brand cereal, talked on the Unix for a while, and then Unixed my car to work.. How can anyone say Unix is not generic!!?
Apple has a rock solid case, the Opengroup can go Unix themselves
The OpenGroup (which used to be X/Open) is a nonprofit, like the FSF, which owns the trademark and licenses it when a system has successfully passed a compatibility test. The notion is that any UNIX should be (at least approximately) compatible. I'm not at all sure if Linux could pass, since it has, eg, a rename(2) system call in place of unlink. The money that OpenGroup gets is used to continue their standards operation. See
This press release on the UNIX trademark and SCO
this one on testing and certification.
What the OpenGroup doesn't do is support open source per se -- unlike GPL'ed code, you can be OpenGroup certified and still be closed source. Bad bad OpenGroup, they're not RMS-correct.
Based on what? Are we to understand that frequent use of a trademark renders it generic? That is utterly preposterous. The Unix trademark is as zealously defended as the law requires, and beyond any reasonable doubt it is most certainly not generic. Is "Volkswagen" generic? How about "Coke" when referring to a beverage? Try it out in the marketplace and see how far you get.
Get real, folks.
The story really is poorly reported by not including this information, and the rabid /.'ers posting would do well to have done the minimal amount of research before expressing strong opinions (this is the www...)
In any case the "Unix" certification is one of those check-off items that get used in evaluations so whether or not there's any real value to it there is an effective value. "Unix", "Posix", this-book/that-book compliance; they're common evaluation criteria and having or not having them is very important.
Of course the question is has "Unix" become a generic word like "Crayon" became or is it still specific to a vendor like "Xerox" or "Kleenex". YMMV but it looks like to me T.O.G. may have a point and paying through the nose may be one of Apples costs for the best selling Unix distribution out there.
I don't read ACs: If a post isn't worth so much as a nom de plume to its author then I wont bother either.
"It's a UNIX system! I know this!!!"
Did Crichton and Spielberg pay a license for that?
It seems to me that everyone (and I mean absolutely everyone) who has so far posted here is missing one important aspect of this licensing/evaluation issue.
Unix is a standard. As I understand it, Linux is referred to as "*nix" because it hasn't passed the Open group's Unix standards evaluation. Just as companies are ISO-certified when they meet certain workflow, structural, managerial, and who-knows-what standards according to a very expensive evaluation, an OS will be certified as "Unix" once having been evaluated as specifically matching those standards.
Investors and entities considering contracting a company's services will use the "ISO-whatever" certification as an indicator that that company has been evaluated to have a certain set of qualities, just as those evaluating operating systems for a project will use the "Unix" certification as an indication of the OS's having met a certain set of standards.
Now, I'll have to leave the value and full meaning of the "Unix" standard up to someone else to define for us, but the point is that it is not the simple purchase of the right to use a trademark name.
Starting with Windows NT, there was a "POSIX compatibility layer" in Windows, but I don't believe that Microsoft ever claimed to be offering "Unix." However, if Apple were to win this suit, it is conceivable that the precedent would be set that would allow Microsoft - and anyone else producing an operating system - to claim that their operating systems wer "Unix."
If the term "Unix" is judged to have become as generic as "Kleenex," then there might well be a need to come up with another name, so that there can be a standard for future reference.
Personally, I suspect that Apple is not "upholding a principle" by not paying for a name that should be available to all breeds of "*nix," but rather that they know of something or many somethings that would prevent OS X from meeting the Open Group's Unix standard.
Xerox retains its trademark for photocopiers, and defends it meticulously. You're thinking of Cellophane and Aspirin, which did lose their traademarks years ago.
sulli
RTFJ.
Well, I'm suing Apple, Open, SCO, IBM, all you lot, and cowboy neal's mama. Hell, I'm suing my mom too, she uses computers, I betcha she's up to no good.
Thanks
Bruce
Bruce Perens.
No, it'll have to be GNU/nix pronounced "New-nix."
Judge scratches head, "you own what?"
Got time? Spend some of it coding or testing
When BSDI's BSD/386 was first released, they advertised their phone number - 800-ITS-UNIX - implying indirectly that the operating system was a UNIX derivative. Lawsuits ensued, and instead of trying to prove that UNIX was generic, BSDI just changed the phone number to settle on that count. USL defended the trademark.
That round of lawsuits, though, paved the way for freeing the BSD 4.4 Lite code base to be used by *BSD and Linux operating systems to build their products. Acknowledge the efforts of those people (BSDI and the University of California) when you run your free operating system today.
The trademark had been defended in the past, and Apple can either try to defend their use of "Unix" (like it seems they're doing) or side-step the issue (like BSDI). Sure, there's alot of pollution in the press where journalists mistake a free operating systems for a "Unix-based" operating system or use the term "unix" generically, but the current trademark owners might have a leg to stand upon when it comes to corporate advertising of a product. I can't think of any company that advertised an operating system as "Unix" and got away with it.
Frankly, the term "Unix" has as much stigma to it (expensive, incompatable, hard to administer, not Microsoft) as it does positive (stability, scalability, not Microsoft). Apple could do without using "Unix" in its advertising and continue to market the operating system on its own merits. To fight for use of the "Unix" trademark seems to me to be waste of shareholder money. Is the benefit to Apple worth the expense of fighting the lawsuit?
IANAL; YMMV; yadda yadda yadda
-ez
(*) "Unix" is a trademark of <insert company du jour>.
On the other hand, it's not clear to me that Apple has violated the trademark. They are a little sloppy when they talk about OS X's Unix origins -- they really should make it clear that they have no license for the Unix trademark -- but it's perfectly legitimate for them to claim that OS X is derived from Unix.
Really this is about the Open Group struggling to hang onto the shreds of its dwinding relevence. Sun and HP still go through the motions of certifying their right to use the Unix trademark, but they don't make a big thing about it. And Linux continues to eat into the Unix marketplace, even though it isn't certified as compliant with any Unix specification. It probably could be, if anybody were willing to spend the money. But nobody is, and nobody cares -- which is bad for Open Group.
Seriously.
Apple has sued other PC makers for too closely copying the iMac. That's their trade dress and they've every right to it.
However Apple hasn't sued any toaster manufacturers unless you're referring to some of the really bad Compaq designs that ran really hot. Nor blender makers, vacuum manufacturers, not even the George Foreman Grill folks.
Just PC and OS folks too closely infringing on the iMac's trade dress.
Go ahead, rebut me. Find a citation where Apple has sued a non-computer related company for infringing. Apple iMac-identical items aside Apple has and can lay no claim to products with swoopy translucent plastic casings in bright colors. Rowenta irons, vTech phones, PaperMate ballpoint pens, all can be as harmonious as they wish with apple's iMac and remain unharassed.
If you've got a problem with a company go ahead and express it but don't go making things up.
I don't read ACs: If a post isn't worth so much as a nom de plume to its author then I wont bother either.
Slashdot needs a +1, Eloquent moderation for those posts that are, well, eloquent. You know the ones i mean.
Help me remember:
Monday is patch your windows server day
Tuesday is patch your Linux box day
Wednesday is file a Unix lawsuit day?
Your favorite
Not that arguing, debating, or even discussing this will matter or change anything but...
I've known about UNIX for about 10 years now. I've been using it in some form for about that long. (NetBSD, Linux, Solaris, Mac OS X, etc.) I know of The Open Group, I've heard/read a few mentions of them before, in relation to the UNIX trademark, but I haven't a damn clue what they do or why they own that trademark.
Do they make a version of UNIX? Shit, I don't know.
Do they market UNIX? Again, dunno. I never see any "UNIX: Brought to you by The Open Group" posters, or ads or anything of the sort. To me, they don't have any public presence.
Does this make me ignorant? Maybe. I've gotten along just fine being ignorant of this group.
What does that say about their trademark? I bet if you took a poll of the slashdot community (and since slashdot has that capability, why not?) most of them would probably not know which OS is REAL UNIX, or who The Open Group is, or what they do. Furthermore, I'd guess that most of them think about UNIX the same way I do: FreeBSD, Linux, Mac OS X, AIX, whatever; it's all just UNIX, they basically all do the same thing. To me that's the equivalent of everyone calling bandages Band-Aids, or tissues Kleenex, etc., etc. I am not everyone else though, so perhaps I'm wrong.
Has apple misused the UNIX trademark? Perhaps. I do recall seeing some Apple ads touting that it is UNIX based, though I do not recall any stating outright that it is indeed UNIX (R). Does this mean that Apple is misusing The Open Group's trademark? Could be. But that's now up to our legal system to decide evidently, and given the actions of our legal system over the past 3 years or so, I'd say there's probably not a great outcome to this.
Gabriel Ricard
If and when apple wins, GNU will stand for "GNU's Now Unix".
Except:
(GNU/Unix) = ((Gnu's)(Not)(Unix))/(Unix) = (Gnu's Not) = GN. WTF is a GN?
Best. Comment. Ever. Enjoy!
Now I know this post will not be read by many because it's a late one in 500+ comments, and lemme preface by sayign I love Apple... but...
Why does apple license some ridiculous "technologies and patents" like 1-click shopping from Amazon and then at the same time not bother to plunk down the small amount (i'm sure it is for a company the size of apple) of change to officially get their OS UNIX certified?
I mean, it should meet the open group's standards, right? My concern is apple might not think it will meet TOG's standards and they'd rather not risk it. (eitherwise, they'd just pay for it like they did with 1-click)
According to logic, this gives us all things that are Unix and are not Unix is one package. Therefore, all things in the universe are now a part of Unix, and open source.
Young Nerd: What is UNIX?
Old Nerd: Unfortunately, no one can be told what UNIX is... They have to see it for themselves.
Irritable, left-wing and possibly humorous bumper stickers and t-shirts
Apple added to this a MacOS layer (all of the MacOS ran in a single A/UX process) - I was really impressed with the nifty job they did - if you look at the later A/UX releases when you walk up to a screen you have to look hard to figure out it's not a native MacOS box.
It only ran on 68k Macs, they let it die when they went to PPC - I still have a copy that boots, rumor is that there's an AUX DNS server still running somewhere in Europe. And of course I go to the A/UX user's group dinner at MacWorld every Jan.
A longstanding failure to vigorously ensure that those third-party products only cover licensed Unices or otherwise make clear that unlicensed products are not Unix makes the Open Group's case a tough one to win. Just like asprin, kerosene and the thermos, Unix has arguably long been a generic term for a specific class of operating systems.
To put it another way, when you hear that an OS is Unix, do you immediately think, "Ah-hah, it's passed the UNIX 93, 95, 98 or Base conformance criteria administered by the Open Group! I can now use the T_TCO_TRANSFAILPROB QoS flag without fear!"
In any case, nothing can be more ironic than the X/Open version of the famous license plate: "Live Free Or Die: UNIX. (UNIX is a registered trademark of The Open Group.)"
"Freedom is kind of a hobby with me, and I have disposable income that I'll spend to find out how to get people more."