Slashdot Mirror
Body Adornments and a Career?
termilitor asks: "I was thinking about decorating myself with a tatoo. The only argument that holds me back is whether this will affect my career of a mathematician / computer programmer negatively. I would like to ask readers of the Slashdot if they have such experiences, including other types of self decoration, like body piercings and dyeing hair." It's always important to look professional when in the work-environment. The big question, of course, is how many of you believe such things are mutually-exclusive. Wearing a tattoo is a non-issue with the right clothes, but what about piercings and hair coloring? Can a happy medium exist between self-expression and the professional environment?
Can a happy medium exist between self-expression and the professional environment?
most employers take a dim view of self-expression. at least this is true in most of corporate america.
Are you really sure that you want to permanently alter your body? REALLY sure? There is a *reason* they call it permanent. And, for the most part, body "adornments" are pretty stinking ugly. Especially cheek and eye-brow piercings ... ugh. And tattoos are rarely very artistically executed - (there are, of course, exceptions.)
"He who would learn astronomy, and other recondite arts, let him go elsewhere. " -- John Calvin, commenting on Genesis 1
Unless you're planning on getting "Poor Impulse Control" plastered on your forehead, don't worry about it. People expect mathematicians to be eccentric. In fact, mathematicians who aren't eccentric make regular people uneasy.
In mathematics, one does not understand things, one merely gets used to them.
--VonNeumann
I've run a consulting business since '94 with a brief break as CTO of a financial software company. I've died my hair a lot over the past 10 years, but never anything too crazy (it's been blonde, and also reddish brown).
Both my tattoos and my piercings are concealed easily by business clothing. I *did* have a tongue piercing for a little while, but got rid of it.
People were always amazed that I had tattoos and piercings when they found out....I guess most people assume that people who have them will have them somewhat visibly.
I guess part of your question revolves around how you carry yourself, too. I've always been a little 'larger than life'...I think if you're not prepared to put yourself 'out there', then you might be right thinking that you could get some negative feedback.
-psy
If you're going to dye your hair purple, then find employers that will hire people with purple hair. Likewise, if you like to wear a suit to work every day, don't work for a bunch of people with purple hair.
I mean, DUH.
If tits were wings it'd be flying around.
Imagine for a moment that you are wearing a leisure suit and a mullet.
Now imagine that they are permanent.
That being said, if you are good and have a good manager, then it won't matter. However, you may have to leave an otherwise satifactory job because of other's stupidity.
This whole having to look "professional" thing really bugs me.
I really don't see the link between dressing in a suit and being *competent*. I don't comprehend it. And while I don't like tattoos and piercings, I can't understand that someone with a full body tattoo and a green mohawk is automatically considered incompetent and useless.
But in the corporate world it seems to be the way things are.
It's a sick world.
- Muggins the Mad
"Can a happy medium exist between self-expression and the professional environment?"
Of course. But then, she'd better be a well paid psychic if she's truly going to be a happy medium.
Why all the wierd ask slashdots lately?
-Adam
Many of the people I know don't use their tattoos as a means of self expression. Instead, it some how seems that the tatoo uses the person as a means for self expression.
In other words, everything in their life revolves around their tattoos or piercings. It's all about how society doesn't understand me because I've got "body art". Or I didn't get that job, or get a date with that girl/guy, or, oh my god my life is complete shit but at least I'm expressing myself because I've got body art!
Anyways. I also know quite a few people who do have simple tattoos or piercings that dont get in the way of a normal social life (yes, i'm making an assumption about the definition of normal). You don't have to have "FUCK YOU" tattooed across your forehead.
If the tattoo you are wanting makes you concerned that you won't get a job at IBM or Sun (much less SCO), then you may very well regret it later in life.
My wife and I know him. By every definition, eccentric, but overall a pretty cool cat.
This sig no verb.
Try to get tattooed with some nifty lines in C++ . If the code is longer, you may consider using larger body areas, like chest.
I doubt that we will ever figure out - and I suspect that even if we did figure out we couldn't do much about it
...about what you can get away with, you should be looking at employers who'll value you for your professional expertise and not how you look. It'll work out better in the long run.
Linux, you magnificent bastard, I read the fucking manual!
If you get a tattoo then you instantly become a social outcast. Your friends will hate you, you will never be able to find a job, even flipping burgers, and you'll never be able to find a signifigant other. Not only that but there is a 100% chance that you will contract hepatitis and of course two days after you get the tattoo you will become suicidal due to the intence depression you feel from having made such a big mistake.
In all seriousness though, a tattoo shouldn't be a big deal as long as it is easily concealed by standard business atire.
Famous Last Words: "hmm...wikipedia says it's edible"
The only problem with taking part in a fad like tatooing is that you need to live with it forever. Ten years from now, you are not likely to be with a crowd that still finds tatoos to be a "cool" thing.
Even if you never grow up mentally, time and gravity will take it's toll, and your tatoo will turn into a black and blue smear. Tatoo removal people will be rich when all the girls putting giant butterflies on their backs and ass turn 40.
Why don't you "express" yourself by coloring your hair purple or something. At least dye washes out eventually.
Conformity is the jailer of freedom and enemy of growth. -JFK
You ought to get the deCSS code tattoed on your back.
- tom -
Just put a pi on your forehead. Everything will be fine. No one will think you're a mass murderer or anything.
Everybody is different, and I suppose I wander in more conservative circles. But nearly everybody I've ever met who has a tattoo regrets it. Several of them are saving for laser tattoo removal. Remember that while the tattoo may express who you are today, you will be a different person 20 years from now. The tattoo might not express who you will be, but it will still be there expressing itself.
Perhaps there are better ways of expressing yourself. I mean, what does dying your hair or getting a piercing say? Everybody is going to interpret it differently, and many of them will get the wrong meaning. If the idea is to make yourself look a certain way, then I suppose it works. But if the idea is to communicate something, you probably could find a more effective and accurate way to do it.
Time flies like an arrow. Fruit flies like a banana.
anyone remember 'the good old days' when people with body art applying for tech jobs were eagerly accepted, since it denoted a kind of 'freak, outcast' personality?
"hey, that guy's got blue hair and a nose ring, he must spend a TON of time in his mother's basement. let's hire him!"
You can definitely find places to work that don't let appearances get in the way.
Two years ago, I interviewed for a systems engineering job, supporting a development team and the production environment their code runs on... I had a mohawk at the time. Last year as we were moving offices, a coworker found some year-old notes from a meeting a year earlier--with the one-liner "Hire the mohawk" in the middle of the page. Two years and an acquisition later, I'm still around, and worked my way up to driving IT for the whole comapany.
The new IT guy we just hired is covered in ink from the elbows up, and from neck to waist... came in as a referral from an employee, and we couldn't have found a better guy if we'd searched for six months.
All in a company whose senior management is decidedly old-school... I'm talking doctors and lawyers, here.
So yeah, you can find places. A lot of people will give you shit for going with the "if they don't want me the way I am, then I wouldn't enjoy working for them anyway"... but you know what? It's the truth. And as long as you're willing to take the risk of NOT finding somewhere that will accept you (or at least, taking a while to find somewhere), then you're in good shape. Especially if you're single. Having to worry about a spouse and kids totally changes your priorities.
So my advice is to be yourself. Just make sure you really mean it when you think "fuck them if they don't like it".
Anything more is a tool to help you filter out companies you wouldn't want to be a part of, anyway, without wasting too much time talking to them. Likewise potential mates, potential mates' parents, bands, river-rafting clubs, condo associations, military academies, supreme-judicial internships, churches, university faculties, and diplomatic appointments.
I've worn varying amounts of earrings in my ears for years (16 years, 11 of them in 'the real world' of business). Never had a problem. Let me repeat:
:-). Maybe it helps to be in a creative field (computer consulting, but I worked many years at Ford Motor, so that's a pretty 'standard' environment)
:-).
:-)
NEVER. EVER. EVER.
Don't listen to anyone at all who disses this. They underestimate how much people will put up with if you are confident and very good at what you do. I rate the confidence as more key than anything else. If you don't treat it as strange or unusual, people will put up with quite a bit.
Just expect to always be singled out as 'the strange one' in the department. For me, I never cared... either way. I don't get in people's faces with something assinine like "oh! look, look, I'm *different*". Especially since at this point I'm more part of the general crowd than anything
Now, a few cautions:
1) If you get a tattoo, get something you *can* cover up or play down if you are so inclined. Facial tattoos are only for those who really, really don't mind standing out and making compromises due to people's narrow viewpoints. You probably will find you'll prefer it this way anyway... better to have something you can *choose* to share with the crowd at large, because there are times where you'll want to *not* make the tattoo the focus of attention.
2) You will encounter dumb people. You may even encounter personal or career set-backs from this. It's always a chance. Assume that anything that happens like this is meant to be, and that you're better off not around those people or in that situation. If it's your mother crying over this, I suggest flowers and a hug and reassuring her that you're sorry you marked up the body she kept from harm all those years, but you were just expressing the creative side she always told you you had
3) As noted above, plan to be exceptional and very professional in your career. That will overcome any silly preconceptions most people might have. And yes, you can plan to be exceptional... It's pretty rare to be exceptional without putting some effort into that goal
4) Ask rec.arts.bodyart about this if you don't believe me. Tattooed, pierced, and otherly modified folks abound there. Many of them are very successful professionals, including my favorite librarian (hi Kate! I bet you're reading this!)
ciao!
It's a strange world -- let's keep it that way
The only argument that holds me back is whether this will affect my career of a mathematician / computer programmer negatively.
I look at it this way: What are the chances it will affect your career positively? None, right? So, what your considering is a move that will, at best, not torpedo your career.
The last time that choice wasn't obvious, I was 15 and did not yet know the sorrow of unemployment.
tatoo yourself with the solution to Fermat's last theorem, or a 2-line crack of strong encryption. Shouldn't negatively affect your math carreer one bit.
A tattoo of an eagle's talons on the head of your cock may have less impact in the workplace than, say, a swastika on the forehead.
Choose your tattoo wisely and then something about spoons I need a coffee I don't have any tattoos or piercings and I vote so you just have a think about that right there buddy.
Now wash your hands.
I'd get a tatoo of some BSD code, then tell SCO it's some of theirs! They'd probably believe me! A cool employer would understand my deep-seated need to do this.
(of course there's always the danger that Senator Orrin Hatch would find out and attempt to blow up my body, but I'm starting to think that danger was always there)
Just be sure to get it right. Nothing more embarasing than a bug in that code!
"It is difficult to catch a black cat in a dark room. Especially if there is no cat there." - Confucius
... the more obvious the better. There's nothing permanent voluntary disfigurement to enable people to instantly identify a pathetic loser. "I'm a wild, free spirit! To show my individuality, I'll be different in exactly the same way everybody I hang out is." It's just a way for a weak person to show the world that he can do anything he wants to, by doing something that he couldn't do if he were governed by a responsible person.
Go make your mark on the world, instead of "tagging" yourself.
My company provides data for law offices and provides simple digitizing and digital services for people that don't know how to use scanners or to transfer their old family movies to DVD. Soon we'll be expanding into video production (what I REALLY want to be doing!). In the next few years we'll have retail stores/service centers in malls.
Personally, I think putting something on your body that will fade and look ugly in one's later years, or could be something that simply does not fit your personality after you grow or mature (and I'm not saying tats are immature) is, at the least unwise. It makes no sense to me (but neither do piercings -- even pierced ears on women) at all -- and I'm not exactly known as a conservative.
However it's not my job/business to judge your personal life. I want to know if you can do the job I am hiring you for. (And, from what I've seen in talking to other small business people, if you get a boss/interviewer as open minded as me, you're lucky!)
If you come into my office to interview for a "frontline" job where you're dealing with clients (or working in the storefronts when we have them open) and you have visible tats or piercings other than "normal" ear piercings on women, you won't get a job. It doesn't matter what I think. It matters what customers and clients think. I'm not going to take a chance on offending or bothering a lawyer client or a retail customer who may be a fundamentalist or a member of any other group with prejudices against non-conformists. As said elsewhere, it doesn't matter what I think. It matters what others (customers and clients) think. I'm not going to let my business lose money because an employee wants to "express" him or her self.
On the other hand, if you're applying for a backline job, like programmer, sys admin, video editor, or even as camera man for our in-house productions, I don't care if you're The Illustrated Man. If you can do the job and interact well with the other employees so then can work with you easily and everyone does a good job, then you're hired.
Just the opinion as a business owner.
As a general person, my thought is tats and piercings may or may not hurt your career, but there's no reason to expect it to help. Why put the effort into doing something that may create problems in the long run?
The last software job I had was a fairly fun working environment (the owner got us two Segways and a Rascal to have office races) and there was zero dress code. We had some guys come in with cammo pants and tank tops, some guys wore suits, and one guy had a mohawk that he kept up with a vat of glue he kept in his desk. Tattoos were faily common, especially since after completing a project a few years before I got there, a bunch of the guys had OS symbols tattooed on them depending on their preferences (I'm not claiming that will be as cool when they're 40 or 50). But I guess the point of my whole rant is that it really depends on what kind of jobs you're looking at and who hires you. I wouldn't want to work for anybody that judged or penalized people based on tatoos or how thye looked, but you are in a much better position to make that call than any of us. But still, think about your tatoo you're getting and where you're getting it (mine is on my lower back, which sucked when I had to sit in a car for 10 hours the next day, that thing was fuggin sore).
It's not stupid. It's advanced.
Getting a Tattoo somewhere where you won't be able to cover it with work clothing will have a negative impact with some employers and others will not care.
So you may have a little bit harder time finding a job, but once you settle in there is no reason to think it will put you on the chopping block or hurt your promote-ability. I would still say that you are probably best off not getting facial piercings or hand/lower arm tattoos or you are probably cutting your pool of employers by 25 to 50 percent. Once you have a job for a few months you are probably pretty safe (if you are good).
Wow, sent an e-mail as suggested when clicking on "use classic" banner, and got a fast response that addressed my msg
As someone that has both body piercings and tats, think very carefully about alterining your body. None of my body art is visible when I am wearing business professional clothing. When I would think about an article of clothing that may be iffy if the artwork showed through, I wouldn't wear it.
The last corporate office that I worked at was an engineering and microelectronic firm. Noone knew about my artwork for almost a year before I saw someone after work and I was wearing something more reveiling. As long as my tattoos weren't seen, there was no issue in having them. The piercing wasn't seen at any time.
When you do decide to get a tattoo, ask around. In most cities there are some great artists that are very skilled at what they do. Same for piercing salons. Ask other people that have tattoos where they got their work done. They will give you a suggestion of whom to go to and whom to avoid. In the Phoenix area, Halo Piercing is one of the best and there are several excellent tattoo parlors - Club Tattoo, Blue Dragon and Artistic Tattoo to name a few.
As another poster mentioned, as long as it's not seen while wearing business attaire, it shouldn't matter about having body art or not.
Good luck in making the decision and take your time in finding what you what as a tattoo, that way you won't regret it. I don't regret mine at all!
design is art - art is design
Before you get one, at least learn how to spell it! It's tattoo. =)
"Yeah, well, Dracula called and he's coming over tonight for you and I said okay."
Dude, be careful! Too much crazy Tatu stuff will get you fired! ;)
"Yeah, well, Dracula called and he's coming over tonight for you and I said okay."
if I had to start at Square One in solving all situations, I could never get anything done... so I must use previous inputs to the system to guide any new experience
This works assuming you value "getting stuff done." Newsflash: not everyone embraces this value. Hey, I think I'm one of them.
Spoon not. Fork, or fork not. There is no spoon.
First question: ...does it go with an Armani suit? =-)
Is it blatently, "offensively", openly, in-your-face visible?
Does it scream "LOOK AT ME! LOOK AT ME!"?
Will it say to the boardroom "I shouldn't be here... I don't take anything seriously... please latch a dog leash to this ring in my nose and connect it up to my eyebrow while you're at it"?
Ask yourself a similar (but more common) question that women ask themselves each day before work: "Is this skirt too short / blouse too open / etc."? In other words... Is it appropriate for anything, anywhere, 'cause that's where you'll be wearing it!
Just before I moved to New Zealand, I put a Canadian flag on my upper arm, just above the short-sleeve cuff. I haven't had a problem... but I'm not throwing it in anyones face.
mindslip
If you're a woman you can probably get away with it. Mnay traditional, large companies are very strict about how men dress and have their hair etc. but apply much less rigorous rules to their female staff. It's a horrendous and blatant display of double-standards and anti-male discrimination. Maybe it is a relic from the days when people only considrered males to be serious employees and women to be less important? Who knows. I used to work for one of them. When I left I grew my hair. It's half way down my back now and I'll only lose it naturally to alopecia! Finding a good professional job has not been a problem. I think you'll find that the people (companies) who are most successful are the ones that are nicest to work for, and treat their staff with dignity and respect and as individuals.
Stick Men
I got a tatoo when I was 21 on my right bicep. If I wear a long or short sleave shirt (the type with a collar), it can't be seen. When my employers eventually saw it, they were not concerned. This is because wearing normal work attire, it is invisible.
I also got a tongue piercing, and it took a week for it to be noticed by my employers. They didn't seem to mind, and I was still allowed to meet clients because it wasn't obviously visible. I ended up taking it out (after a year) because I didn't want to chip my teeth.
I also dyed my hair black (from dark brown)... it wasn't a big change and my employers didn't mind.
If you do get something done, don't make a big deal about it. Get it done for personal reasons, not to impress your colleagues. Don't go to extremes, be subtle and decorate a location on your body that is hidden by business clothing, but not by recreational clothing (if possible).
PS: Don't EVER get a girl's name on a tatoo... If you want to impress her, get a heart tatoo and write her name across it every day with a permanent marker. You *will* thank me one day.
you should find some older person whose tattoos are
a couple decades old.
take a close look at that 20-year-old tattoo.
really. you want that?
it may look fresh and lovely when it's new --
but it's not always gonna be new.
Wait a minute. Didn't I say that on the other side of the record? I'd better check
I have basically sworn to never wear a suit to anything. A simply t-shirt, shorts and jandals is all that is needed and I'll stick by that. If it negatively affects my work or anything else, then I've got a nice sample of ass for people to kiss.
In my experience, when you've got a "look" that's not consistent with what people expect (based on your function or the company you're representing for example) Then you've got a slight barrier to cross initially before they take you serious. But if appearance is the only thing that sets you apart from your professional group (i.e. you're at least as good or better at your work than them) then once they've had the time to talk to you they'll come to respect your knowledge and forget about your appearance. I usually dye my hair in funny colours (purple, blue, red, orange, green,..) and wear brightly coloured clothes, all of which are not normal in my line of work. But I never get negative feedback about my work from customers, and my appearance is usually talked about as something "refreshing" or "unexpected", never "terrible" or "unprofessional".
Of course if I've got a very bad day my weird appearance only works against me. The trick is to never have a bad day when it's a first day at a new customer.
If you want to work in most offices, it won't be a big deal if it isn't obvious.
If you ever want to do a job where you will be working with the general public, and aren't flipping burgers, think again, NOW. No company you would want to work for would hire you.
It's just another way to limit your career choices, really.
I know that between a tattoo clad person, and a non-tattooed person, all other things being equal, the non-tattooed person will get the job.
I may be mistaken, but I thought people had some element of choice when it came to tattoos and piercings?
I've got several large tattoos - 6 in total which are all covered by my normal clothing. I'm fairly certain that most of the company knows these exist after drunking nights out - but I've never really shown them at work, and nobody has every commented.
Piercings are pretty much the same. At the moment I have 12 piercings, and I see a colleague across the other side of the office with a lone eyebrow piercing.
I guess if I had a customer facing position things would be different - but hiding around in the office my Septum (middle of the nose; like a bull!) piercing doesn't give me anything to worry about.
(I'm annoyed I had to lose the tongue piercing I've had for the past 8 years recently for unrelated reasons. *grumbles*)
I think if you're good at your job and haven't got really uptight employers a ring or tattoo here or there isn't likely to cause any problems - it's only if you've got a load of "obvious" mods that folk might get the wrong idea and judge you upon appearence more than necessary.
"Can a happy medium exist between self-expression and the professional environment?" No. Not as long we allow people to gain leadership who have no respect of individual rights. Too many people in management abuse the basic human rights of their employee's. The sheep all put up with as the pigs are in control. Whatever is a dog to do?
Look here for a collection of Signature programs that could serve as inspiration.
Try the Corporate Goth website.
Its a site set up by fellow Goths discussing the best ways of addapting something of an alternative lifestyle (lots of peirced and tatted Goths out there) into looking respectable in the corporate bussness world. (We all need a job to fill the space between the nights, to pay for the drugs, the motorcycles and the pointy boots)
The site has many discussions you may find usefull.
My opinion? :-)
If you refuse to employ/talk to me beause of the way I look, then quite frankly it was worth it.
Anyone quoted by a reporter knows how little they understand
Don't believe what you read is the truth.
The correct link is: http://home.planet.nl/~faase009/Signindex.html.
Those "good old days" never existed, and I never saw a situation like the one you describe.
IANAL but write like a drunk one.
...any resistance. I have numerous tattoos and a couple of piercings (nothing extreme, though) and I have not had anyone turn me down for a job or look at me funny at work. I have all of my tattoos within my t-shirt line so only a tiny bit is visible when I'm wearing a t-shirt (like if my sleeves get rolled up or caught on something). I think tattoos are a great way to decorate yourself. I personally like mottos and such. I have "Nothing is Permanent" written across my back and "Totally Life!" (...maybe) soon to be on my chest. As long as you keep it mostly consealed and not too extreme, nobody will mind. My current boss actually commented on my tattoos (he got a glimce of something on my neck). (Spelling Nazis: Go to town!)
Totally Life!
ALL replies
I've got several tattoos, to the point where percent of body coverage is counted, not individual tattoos. I also have multiple ear piercings, a very large tounge stud, and hair down to my waist. I've never found it to hamper me in any way. In fact in most cases I'm the person whom gets to meet with clients. And it's never been a problem with them either. I can still look and act professional, how I look does not stop me in that. The only thing people find odd is the fact that my wife does not have tattoos or multiple piercings.
The only time I have ever seen problems associated with tattoos or piercings is when the wearer allows them to become an issue. The 'I look different, so treat me different' mentality that seems to pervade the body-mod community. Everyone makes a statement, from what tie, shoes or color of jacket they wear all the way to what direction they part there hair. People whom choose not to have body-mods do not ask for different treatment, so those of us whom choose to adorn ourselves should expect the same.
A long time ago, I had a chance to work with a former-salesman turned development-manager at IBM about the dress code in the company. To set the image in your mind, IBM had announced that it was relaxing the dress code a bit for employees who did not meet customers on a regular basis (i.e. the people he was managing), yet he was still wearing the white shirt, suit and tie.
He reason for sticking with the suit and tie made perfect sense to me (paraphrased version because it has been 14 years since I had this conversation):
I thought about it for a while, and I reached a simple conclusion based on the details of my life - I loathe ties, enough that I would be willing to sacrifice that 5% of my possible business. Someone else in the same sales role would have made the sale to that 5%, beating me out in performance, and/or making the difference between the company going broke, or the company staying afloat. Ergo, I needed to stay out of sales, and stick to the areas where I could effectively work without a tie.
Simple, right? Then, in 1993, I applied for a job with a small company that expected it's developers to dress in the suit and tie. They were so petty that they never even sent me a formal rejection letter when they decided not to hire me . . . my "sin" was that I have a beard.
The exact quote about the reason why I was not hired was, "People with a beard have something to hide."
In fact, that statement was true (I do not like looking at my double-chin in the mirror, and I have a scar from a high-school fistfight that the moustache hair covers enough that I can forget about that part of my life), but it was the reason why I was not hired at a company . . . in an economy that was better than it currently is.
A few months later, that company screwed over several of my friends, so I was actually glad that they did not hire me . . . or *I* would have been in the same boat.
The point (to the original author) is - do you get a visible tattoo, and cut yourself off from 5% of your possible employers? That limits you to only 95% of the possibles, but if they hired you with the tattoo, then you will probably "fit in" with the corporate culture. But you still end up eliminating that 5% of all potential employers, right off the top.
(Incidentally, I chose the 95% route. I've known people who worked for pressed white shirt, pressed suit and pressed tie lawyers, and they universally hated their jobs and their bosses - eliminating them from the potential pool of employers up front saved a lot of time, I believe.)
Chivalry is not dead, it's just frequently misspelt. - M. Langley
no one usually even notices my tongue ring unless I show it to them. Of course, I only wear the clear one at work.
One, give it a try. Have the design done in magic marker, and wear it to work one day.
Two, does it really pass the sarcastic old man test?
For those who don't know, to determine if something's a good idea, phrase it in the most sarcastic way possible, then ask your self with an old man voice.
Hey! I've got a great idea! Lets inject dye into our skin, then shove splitners of metal through our fleshy bits! As a fashion statement!
If it still appeals to you, great. More power to you.
Vintage computer games and RPG books available. Email me if you're interested.
What a fucked up line of logic in that first paragraph.
I've been working in the IT sector for about 10 years now. I'm pushing about 50% body coverage with tattoos (fully sleaved on both arms, lots of individuals spread out over the rest of my body). I wear earings. Up until a few years ago I had a few facial piercings too (removed because I was sick of them, not from any external pressure). I've had blue hair (right now I have no hair). I've never had a complaint. Why? I follow a few simple rules:
1. Look neat and professional at your interview with none of your tattoos showing. Always look/behave one level more formal than you think the interviewer expects.
2. Don't allow your tattoos/modifications to be visible at work until you are sure they appreciate your skills. Once you have proven that you have the skills, they don't really care how you look.
3. On the day you decide that you are going to allow your tattoos to be visible, make sure you go to your manager and ask them something along the lines of "Please let me know before we have clients coming in so that I can make myself presentable to them." They will appreciate the fact that you understand that some people may be put off by your 'non-professional' appearance and that you are willing to 'play the part' for the good of the company.
`fortune -o`
You have the right to express yourself and people have the right to not like it. I have emplyees that have tattoos and piercings. I mainly higher telephone support techs. If I have person shows up to an interview and he or she has a 3 ft mohawk and tatoos everywhere and is wearing outlandish cloths it shows me that this person does not care about offending other people. That is not a good thing when it comes to doing customer service. It also shows poor judgement. Now if a tech thinks superglueing rubber chickens to his body is fun I really do not care as long as it is not here. Our dress code in super lax. Tee shirts and jeans are fine ,even shorts.
For a programmer it might not really matter but you still have to work with other people and if you do not fit in you are less usful. Frankly I likedon't tattoos and body pierceing. They can cause infection and health problems just for the sake of looks. It is no different than women getting breast implants. If you want to stand out do it be your positive actions and skills. That is my free speech and I am sure that some people will not like it. To those with Tatoos and body pierceings take no offence I also don't like to eat fish. I think it tastes nasty. That does not mean that I hate people that do eat fish.
I also would not hire a tech that comes to an interview with a box of sushi and eats at the interview. That bad judgment thing again.
See my blog http://ilovecookes.blogspot.com/ for light hearted technical information.
Unless you meet a single female mathmetician, you've just divided your existing low probability of getting laid by 3.14159...
Seriously, while many girlies might think that a hunting-cat tat makes a guy look sexy, I think they'd find pi a little disattracting.
Oh, and try to avoid tats with names too, unless you plan on continuously dating girls by the same name should the existing relationship break up. Getting one of those "mom" heart tattoos, but replacing "mom" with "my boss" might just help your job perspectives in some cases though.
Indeedy, but earrings are also usually considered more acceptable than other piercings. Some with some low-key tats - they can be covered, and if they don't involved anything overly offensive they're usually not too bad anyhow.
:-)
/.
IMHO, you can pierce yourself anywhere you please... but some things such as those *huge* ear spacers just give me shudders. And frankly, something like this is likely to get you an interview with an exorcist as opposed to a second job interview.
And yeah, when my gramma looks at an array of ring earrings and admiringly says "those look nice" - I think that they pass a little more easily than a tat of a grinning skull biting a kitten in half, or something along those lines
But, it depends on the job you're looking for. My (male) earrings, hair colouring, and low age don't seem to affect my employment ability, and I'm working a nice tech job while currently sitting in an office wearing my sandals/shorts and typing to
If I have you in for a job interview and you have some crazy big holes in your ears, or spikes through your cheeks, or smell like smoke and make me feel like puking, then there's little chance that I'll hire you even if you are otherwise qualified.
There will always be someone just as qualified who doesn't make me sick.
However, a couple earrings or some tattoos or purple hair wouldn't hurt.
That Leisure Suites back in the '70s where not "permanent".
In my opinion tatoos that are put on with no ceremony or ritual meaning are a fad. A few years from now there are going to be an aweful lot of people walking around with permanent leisure suites.
If you live in a square state, chances are you'll stand out in a negative way if you are anything other than a white milquetoast, so maybe you want to avoid those places. If you are in a multicultural arena like a metropolitan area, people are more used to seeing creative people, so it's less of an issue.
I have several tattoos that are not visible unless I take off my shirt, which I don't do at work. I also have a prince albert piercing which is also not visible at work (though I did take a piss next to a suit once, who asked me if it hurt, and if my gf liked it.) I've had my left ear pierced since high school, but rarely wear any jewelry in it.
I'd say certain fields like graphic design and programming have a higher number of creative people in them and management seems to be more accepting of creativity in their appearance.
Do what you love, Don't sweat the rest...
Speaking of tatts at least, as long as it is tasteful (ie, not plastered across your forehead) you probably won't have any issues.
... not just placement, but that the design itself is artful. I don't mean you have to custom design your own welsh zoomorph (which is what my band is ... it matches our wedding bands ... I hate wearing jewelry except at formal functions). But don't just walk in and point at the latest fad design or skulls or whatnot. A number of folks I've met have remarked that they normally dislike tattoos and were surprised that they liked it, but that being a good design made all the difference.
I have a full armband, but I got it below the elbow rather than on the bicep, which means most times it is visible at work. I've -never- had a person give me a hard time about it. Even my grandparents (who are much more anti-tattoo than any boss I've met), once they saw that it was well done and not obscene, said they didn't mind and sort of liked it.
That actually is often the key
It is more productive to voice thoughtful opinions (reply) than to judge (moderate) others.
When I hire developers, and I see someone come in in a perfect suite, hair care product all together and all that jazz, chances are, I wont hire the person.
They do not conform to how I see a good developer.
I they display a nice ammount of individuality, geekynees, and social ackwardness, then I usally find I have a winner.
Of course there are interview standards and all that, that we use, however, I dont want a salesman, I dont want a fast talker, I dont want slick willy, I want the best darn developers I can get.
The key thing is that image is important, but slick dude in a suit, is not best image for every "professional" job.
And yeah we have people working with tattos, weird hair, piercings, some of them have all,
if they do good work, and they can cooperate with
others, then they are real keepers.
Plus, in general you will have much more interesting conversations at the office, and a lot more interesting music being played.
to compensate for what perceived inadequacy?
Instead of permanently mangling yourself, figure out why you think you 'need' a tattoo or other body modifications. You'll probably be happier in the long run without it.
IANSF (I am not Sigmund Freud)
Tiller's Rule: Never use a word in written form that you've only heard and never read. You will end up looking foolish.
... is a piercing. Yessir. I'll rip that out to fare thee well. So, if you're sportin' one, don't pick a fight with me.
Wansu, th' chinese sailor
Your boss isn't going to care about your Prince Albert, and if she notices it, you're halfway to a relationship or a great harassment lawsuit.
IBM varies a lot from office to office.
I work for IBM. Right now I'm wearing jeans, a Paul Frank T-shirt saying "I'm not a beaver, I'm an otter", and I have black titanium circular barbell earrings with pointy "devil horn" ends. I've seen worse around here, too.
Head down to IBM in Austin and you'll see people wearing shorts, sandals and hawaiian shirts.
Now, on the other hand, if you work for IBM on Madison Avenue, or even go there to visit, you're expected to wear something at the smarter end of business casual. If you're going to give a presentation to customers, you'd better expect to dress up a little.
But in general, IBM is not full of grey corporate drones wearing suits. Maybe you encountered lots of suits because finance guys were overseeing the acquisition.
GCHQ Quantum Insert installed. If only our tongues were made of glass, how much more careful we would be when we speak
However beautiful a tattoo may have been when it was created, the damn things have a tendency to fade and become vague and blueish and cheap looking.
And so will you...
to discriminate on the basis of one's skin color?
joking aside, what's really important is that you show prospective employers that you are not your tatoo; that your tatoo is you. in other words, if you act like you are is supposed to say something for/about you and they are supposed to figure out what it is, chances are they will assume that you got it to be "different" (antisocial) and that you are probably not a good person to have on the team. instead, if you understand that people will have that reaction and be up front about what your tatoo means, and explain it to them ("this is in memory of my [family member, friend]", or some other idea equal in its permanence to a tatoo), then they will get a better idea of what it is you care about and, by extension, who you are.
Somewhere on this page I have hidden my signature.
My experience was that the women got away with having things like purple hair (which was specifically against the dress code) whereas one poor man got sacked because his trousers were the wrong shaded of grey. They weren't "dark" enough.
Stick Men
The issue is can anyone see it. If know one knows it's there it's like whether or not you're circumcised, it's no one's business.
The business has a legitimate issue with body art that is visible, namely, if someone isn't concerned about offending the boss and the ones they work with all day long, how concerned will they be about offending our (paying) customers.
One last point, ladies seem to get more of a pass on this than guys (Don't complain to me, call 1-800-WAA-AAAA) but even they need to be careful. The business world treats a rose on the ankle and a skull in the center of the forehead MUCH differently.
Honestly, I don't think a guy with extensive body art could get through the hiring process here (except maybe the obligatory Marine Corps anchor or some other service related stuff).
It doesn't matter what you wrap your emotions around, Reality is a brick wall specifically designed to scramble eggs
There are some interesting viewpoints expressed here.. mostly US, I guess. Personally, I would have to wonder if you are a creative person, why you would want to work for a company which assumes that suits somehow makes for better IT skills, and hence expects their IT people to wear them. Clean tidy casual should be the requirement for anyone not dealing personally with customers, and what is suitable for them depends on the customer. Anything which makes people less comfortable is likely to distract them from doing what they are paid for.. the good use of their good minds
Coverable tats probably works best anyway, as I believe tats fade faster with exposure to sunlight. Of course this assumes that you can find a tattoo that you think you will be happy with for the rest of your life (including change in body shape over the years).
As an observation, I worked as a consultant in NY in the securities industry, and while the company staff all wore suits, nobody seemed to have a problem with the Aussie wearing dayglo (smart) casual clothes, or having a plaited ponytail. On day one of the system going live, I wore a jet-black dress shirt covered in kaleidoscopic patterns, but they still insisted in me being in all the pics taken (departmental, whole company blah blah), in among all the suits.
I was talking to this old guy who used to work for Bell Labs the other night and he said his son was once "dressed down" for walking off the elevator at work in front of a woman at IBM. I think he is a VP at Cisco now.
I've been doing *nix system administration for ~3 years, a little bit of windows before that, and I'm covered in tattoos ( including hands and neck ), and ( as I sit at my laptop in my office typing ) am currently wearing four of my facial piercings, not to mention my ( obviously hdden ) genital piercings.
But I'm also very lucky. My two most immediate bosses are jeans-and-tshirt types when they don't have big meetings, and people have gotten used to me just being weird but getting the job done.
YMMV, but as long as you're nice to people, do your job, and are willing to dress up as much as you can for important functions, most reasonable people won't care. And you will find that most IT people are pretty reasonable and open-minded.
Also, it does depend on the kind of work you do. If you go to client's sites everyday, you will also be expected to be somewhat more "presentable". If you just hang out in the machine room and your office, then you'll get a lot more leeway.
Good luck, and remember, if a job won't let you be yourself within your personal bounds and w/out it interfering with business, then you probably don't want to work there anyways.
PC moderators can suck my White pierced, tattooed dick. If you think pride == hate, s/dick/Aryan meat mallet/g.
OK, first of all, my own hiring preferences (as math/CS major, working as a programmer, who has participated in hiring process on both sides :)
a be" variety, I would hire you. If it's a choice between two candidates who are exactly teh same professionallly and otherwise, I am less likely to go for body-mod person, although this only kicks in after some threshold was crossed (i.e. a small earring is not body-mod ;)
:)
If you're better than an alternate candidates professionally, and your body mods are not of the "i'm a super-satanist-goth-punk-nazi-druggie-hippie-wann
However, if you look completely out of this world, you are not likely to get my approval unless I have firm proof (reference from someone I know, for example), that you're not only good profesisonally, but would work out OK as a person.
The reason for the above rules is in how I view body mods:
1) Most people who get them do so to "show their individuality" because they got no other way to distinguish themselves as people. Probably not all, but most I encountered.
2) An "out there" body mod made with "fuck what you think of me" attitude is likely indicative of general "fuck what you think of me" attitude in other areas of life/work.
3) They IMHO are, for most part aesthetically non-appealing.
4) I like to express myself too. But I don't do what I consider my forms of self-expression at work. Why do you think other people should be subjected to yours? (see also #2).
5) I have strong aversion to doing anything irreversible when one doesnt need to do so. IMHO, that attitude is a sign of wisdom, and vice versa. Thus, I consider someone decorating themselves with a removable (stick-on?) tattoo to be more likely to be wise than the guy sporting a snake around his knuckles and split toungue. BTW, if you're smart enough to get a tattoo not visible under normal cloths, you're in the former (wiser) category. I don't care what's tattooed on your butt, as long as you're not my wife (and she shares my opinion of body mods so that's not likely to ever happen
Just my $2
-DVK
"The right to figure things out for yourself is the only true freedom everyone shares. Go use it"-R.A.Heinlein
I'm a fairly normal over 50 while male US citizen. I do not care at all what you do to your body.
OTOH, I was *taught* by my parents to look down on people who had tatoos, odd colored hair, hair of the wrong length, and piercings. (In those days only saw piercings on people from India or Africa, or in the National Geographic.) I was *taught* that only people of the wrong class, the wrong race(s), and without education did those sorts of things.
What happened to me is pretty much what happened to everyone I grew up with and most of them did the same thing to their children.
Even though I have over come my feelings about hair (it has been too long and the wrong style my whole adult life) and beards (I have worn one almost constatly since I was 16) I have only now gotten over looking down on people with tatoos. (Though I haven't gotten up the nerve to get one.) And, I still find piercings to be horrifying rather than interesting....
That is the way I was raised.
I have been turned down for more than one job because of my long hair and beard. I have seen people fired for showing up to work with bright blue hair (the manager was 20 years younger than I am and the blue haired fellow worked for me.)
I can at least claim that I am aware of my bigotry. Most people can not, they just react according to the way they were raised.
If you want to advance in the corporate world. Learn to were what ever the job requires. Wear your hair the same way the CEO does. And do not even consider dying your hair, getting a tatoo, or any sort of piercing. (Ok, women can have pierced ears, one hole in each side, no more.)
Or, you can tell them to piss of and start your own business. If enough of us do that then those of us who don't wear suits, who have blue hair (I like metallic blue hair) who have tatoos and piercings can create our own economy and force the suits wearing asshole to conform to US!
Stonewolf