SCO Protest And Anti-Protest In Provo

a.ameri writes "On Friday, June 20, the Provo Linux Users Group decided to head on over to SCO's offices and hold a protest; information on the event, including pictures and press coverage, can be found on the PLUG page. Among other things, the protesters claim that SCO employes came out and joined the event holding pre-prepared signs saying things like 'I love software piracy' and 'Try communism - use Linux.'" There are some funny shots linked here (thanks to reader lucif latum). Daddio64 points to the press covereage in the Deseret News and Provo Daily Herald.

Comments

Original LWN discussion

[TRS-80]

The original post on LWN containes a few comments on why the SCO people did this (ie they have a sense of humour).

Slashdot - stealing LWN stories for fun and profit since 1998

Re:Original LWN discussion

[mackstann]

Yeah, great, but isn't humor inappropriate here? Why are the linux dorks being buddy buddy with their arms around the SCO CEO? They have signs that say "Linux feeds my family", so how can it be a joking matter for them? If someone did something to cause you to lose your livelihood, would you joke around and be buddy buddy with them? Just a thought.

Note that I'm not a linux dork being defensive, I think it's pretty pointless to go out there and protest, I just like to point out possible hypocrisy when I see it.

Re:Original LWN discussion

[Davorama]

No, gotta disagree there. It's unclassy. Especially where they started in on the Iraq and France bashing by association. I know it's the in thing now to bag on "those French cowards" but it's still just mindless follow-the-hurd humor (unclassy). I do have a sense of humor but I don't like to have to turn my brain completely off in order to exersize it. The sign might be funny if if there was anything that could tie the two (IBM/Linux/SCO and France/Iraq) concepts together.

Re:Original LWN discussion

[gad_zuki!]

>(ie they have a sense of humour).

I'm not sure about that. Let's see theres a BILLION dollar lawsuit, linux's reputation has been tarnished, IBMs AIX licenses are now in question, Linus himself is getting threatened, and now they're hurling insults under the guise of "just kidding!"

Its like that wanna-be bully in gradeschool who insults you then says, "I'm kidding!" Its a lame attempt to bait OSS types and get them angry thus producing more negative press.

Re:Original LWN discussion

[elmegil]

The drugs reference was also very unclassy.

Re:Original LWN discussion

[dougmc]

No, gotta disagree there. It's unclassy.

They did more than put out signs. They provided drinks for everybody -- even the protesters. That's relatively cheap -- but extremely classy.

They went out and picketed with them. They posed for pictures. They came out and `shared laughs'.

The posters themselves were a little unclassy (but still funny.) But they made up for it in the other things they did.

Especially where they started in on the Iraq and France bashing by association.

They made a joke. That's more than they've done up to this part.

(And I'll bet the SCO lawyers have a field day with this, and the people who did it get yelled at big time. After all, I doubt those signs were approved by legal (even though they were ready beforehand?)...)

Re:Original LWN discussion

[innocent_white_lamb]

Why are the linux dorks being buddy buddy with their arms around the SCO CEO?

Indeed.

Unfortunately, actions like these take the whole point away from having the protest in the first place.

I recognize that "techies" are not particularly good at protesting stuff; that's not what they do and there is no reason why they should be. However, this action by Canopy (provide drinks for everyone, buddy-buddy with folks there and "We're all friends now!") was a calculated public relations move to diffuse the impact of the protest.

If the protest was a cold, "Screw you SCO" affair, that's a real protest and will be portrayed as such. This, however, appears to have been turned into a simple picnic on SCO's front lawn.

Which is exactly what SCO wanted.

Re:Original LWN discussion

[linzeal]

I would gauge a majority of us geeks still have at least one pot smoking friend who is a functional member of the community. I'm 25 and know a slew of them, of course I live in Humboldt County.

Re:Original LWN discussion

[scoove]

They went out and picketed with them. They posed for pictures. They came out and `shared laughs'.

it's called 'coopting' and it's right out of Microsoft's manual.

pretty interesting in all. it seems that SCO's got some rather competent handlers... that and the "steal free music" attempted reference in SCO's signs is a rather fascinating insight to how their PR folks are going to shape this battle in the press.

I smell a Hatch...

*scoove*

Re:Original LWN discussion

[shadowbearer]

Especially when one considers this

Tuesday 17th June 2003

(emphasis mine)

SCO has made no secret in recent months that it hired high-profile attorney David Boies to spearhead its case against IBM, but the company's legal representation in Utah courts is also noteworthy. The company retained Brent O. Hatch and Mark F. James of the law firm Hatch, James & Dodge. Hatch is the son of Senator Orrin Hatch, R-Utah, a representative for SCO confirmed Monday.

SB

Re:Original LWN discussion

[Jeremi]

I know it's the in thing now to bag on "those French cowards"

Indeed, this despite the increasingly obvious fact that the French were right. But hey, if we make enough clever anti-French jokes, maybe we won't have to face up to how idiotic we look now.

Re:Original LWN discussion

[elmegil]

And that's why it was unclassy. You can be a pot smoker and still be functional.

Re:Original LWN discussion

[the gnat]

Indeed, this despite the increasingly obvious fact that the French were right.

This rests on the dubious assumption that the French foreign policy is dictated by anything other than greed and anti-Americanism. I'm about to reach the point where I hold my nose and vote for Bush in 2004 just because it'll piss off the French and Germans for another four years.

Re:Original LWN discussion

[the gnat]

I would gauge a majority of us geeks still have at least one pot smoking friend who is a functional member of the community.

I had a number of friends in college and high school who smoked pot regularly. Many of them were perfectly functional in their work lives, and were generally talented and intelligent people. Almost all of them, however, tended to let their social lives revolve around getting high. Everyone's experiences differ, but I've lost several friends this way, and now avoid the stuff as a result.

Re: Original LWN discussion

[Black Parrot]

> I know it's the in thing now to bag on "those French cowards" but...

Also "in" to ignore the fact that French troops are the only Western soldiers trying to stop the horror in the Congo right now.

Three million people have died in the Congo over the past four years, but the members of the "Coalition of the Willing" who were so eager to 'rescue' the people of Iraq are falling all over themselves to see who can ignore what's happening in Africa the best.

Re:Original LWN discussion

[LurkerXXX]

That's a brilliant thing to base your vote on. Pissing off the french and germans.

Just ignore the little things, like our economy which shrub has put in the dumpster, or the 19-year old kids dying in the desert (more than one a day since shrub declared we "won" the war), or the lying about the quality of the intelligence of the threat of weapons of mass distruction this while mess was based on. Please leave the voting to folks who actually CARE about our country.

Re:Original LWN discussion

[Felinoid]

As a kid I didn't let the bullys bother me. It really pissed them off and ultimately made them look bad.
It was better than trying to defend myself at the time simply becouse I was to small to do anything.
(7 year old vs 14 year old bully)
The teachers would see it and the bully would be in deep trubble.

SCO people run out being childish saying "Just kidding" we can laugh and let it go making them look bad or we can whine and look bad ourselfs.

After all we should laugh at outselfs once in a while.

The rest of the story gose that when I did fight back the poor kid went to the hospital.
When they think you'll fight back they are ready. when they don't they are easy targets.
Pick your battles :)

Re:Original LWN discussion

[Synithium]

Lets not forget the thousands of Iraqis who were tortured on a daily basis and the thousands more abused under the Iraqi government.

There is a lot to be said about people dying, in this case being wrong (about WMD) is still right in the end (getting rid of abusive dictators).

So whether the intentions are honorable or not, in my mind this is one thing that ended up good no matter what.

On that end i would point to WJC's record on going into countries and getting US soldiers killed.

Let us not forget that the product of peace comes at the price of war and that the nature of humanity has changed little since the beginning of recorded history.

Re:Original LWN discussion

[iceT]

Sense of humor my ass. That is SCO property, which is a place of business. If the management at SCO allowed THEIR employees to place those signs out in front of their building during business hours, then they CONDONED the posters. It wasn't a sense of humor, but a glimpse at a childish, petty organization that only comes across as 'smug'.

Whether they have a valid basis for a lawsuit or not, I expect companies to act like grown-ups. I've seen to many articles recently where executives, management, and lawyers result to threats, and childish statements.

What ever happened to professionalism?

Re:Original LWN discussion

[Saint Stephen]

POT: IT DON'T HAVE TO BE LIKE THAT.

Okay, remember when you were 16 and got some alcohol? It was a big huge deal, you made a huge fuss about it, told stories about it, and generally acted immature.

Flash forward: now, you'll MAYBE drink a beer or have a few drinks, but unless you're a drunk you don't obsess over it, spend all your time thinking about it. You drink light beer, drink responsibly, try not to get wasted amoung your respectible friends, and are usually more interested in a conversation than your drink. You don't talk about your drink. You just drink.

Now: consider folks from Holland. You might not know this, but they prefer to mix tobacco with their pot when they smoke it, because it cuts down the smell and makes the experience more social and less -- whatever. Just like we drink light beer and not moonshine.

And I've seen a guy from Holland get passed a bong, and spend WAY more time finishing his conversation before he took a hit, whereas even your coolest American pot smoker will rather quickly take a toke.

In short, it is possible to have a healthy, mature, moderate, temperate view towards pot, and to use it in small amounts, watered down, and in a proper context. It's the incrimination which causes fienddom. Legalize it, and watch it become not too big a deal, at least amoung respectable successful people, except for "pot drunks".

Pot can be used responsibly like alcohol. The legalizers need to stop envisioning a world where it's okay to get smashed, and the demonizers need to chill. Just equate light beer == pot+tobacco. /soapbox

Re:Original LWN discussion

[erat]

Actually, I think you're the one misunderstanding the point of a protest.

Let's face a simple fact right up front: SCO isn't going to kill a lawsuit because 50+ people picketted behind their building for 2 hours. I hope nobody has any confusion over this.

Protests are done to draw public attention to an opinion, be it for or against a certain issue. Judging by the actions of the protesters in Utah I have to say they understood perfectly well what they were doing. They notified the press before the protest, they picketted in back of SCO's building which just so happens to be the only side that fronts on a public road, and not long before 4:00pm the protesters LEFT THE AREA to go protest near the entrance/exit to I-15. If they were there to piss off SCO's upper management, they probably would have figured out a way to protest in front of the building where all the offices were (the front of the building faces a parking lot and is not visible from any public road. It would have been an intimate, easilly swept under the carpet show placed for a few SCO employees and that's it. Talk about a waste of time).

They made themselves and their opinions very visible in very public areas. In doing this, they made their protest successful. They got print coverage in a few local papers (Deseret News is actually fairly big in Utah), and rumor has it that a TV crew got some shots (I didn't see them arrive or leave, but I wasn't there the whole time).

The lawsuit seems to still be moving forward, but is that really a surprise?

Re:Original LWN discussion

[Doomdark]

Iraq and France bashing by association. I know it's the in thing now to bag on "those French cowards"

This is something that's been puzzling me a fair bit, actually: there were couple of mid-sized countries that stood up to the only actual superpower, saying it would be wrong to attack Iraq (based on just inconclusive evidence and lots of strong words). And that's cowardice? Knowing US military, political and economic might, that seems fairly brave move on France's (and Germany's) part to me. Note that I'm not commenting on right/wrongness of those actions, just the impression on courageousness (or lack of).

It's bit like people calling 9/11 terrorists cowards; I mean, they were scumsucking evildoing asswipes and all, but still; doing a kamikaze attack like that isn't your every day coward would really do. I guess it's just using word "coward" as a general derogatory term, and/or applying different criteria for different people (as in "if they weren't such cowards they'd had attacked US army forces directly").

As to France specifically; I know, I know, it is/was just "sore loser's syndrome"; the problem wasn't who's brave who's not, but who is with us or against us. But still... it is scary how sometimes politics get close to Orwell's new world, where war is peace, lies are truth, and bravery is cowardice.

Re:Original LWN discussion

[utd-blaze]

Let's see who the dem's put up next time around. From what I see today, Bush is most certainly the lesser of the two evils we'll have to select from...

Unless the democrats nominate someone who lied to our nation and the world to sell a war that killed thousands of foreign nationals for the benefit of a few American companies (I'm looking at you Halliburton), then who the "lesser of two evils" is should be pretty obvious.

Re:Original LWN discussion

[commodoresloat]

The french based their actions on their perception of their national self-interest, as any country's leaders worth their salt will do. If anti-Americanism played a role in french foreign policymaking, it was based on a belief among french leaders that it was in their national interest. And in this case it was also based on the fact that the overwhelming majority of French citizens felt this was the right stance to take.

Re:Original LWN discussion

[davFr]

I'm French, so i can discuss about it. I think that not all decisions here are based on altruism, BUT there are obvious reasons that make me say "We were right in this case". An advice I can offer you is : "Stop reading US media about US actions of US politics around the world". Coz your media and politics are deeply connected and share the same goals. So try to get alternative points of view and you should surely notice US government is acting wrong with its external (and maybe internal - but that's not my business) unilateral decisions. and here is my little US bashing : Why Bush didn't sign Kyoto protocol about greehouse effect gazes? Was it because of Ben Laden, or rather Hussein?

Re:Original LWN discussion

[RemoteRabbit]

From the look of your Florida election you'll all be voting for Bush ......Mugabe Style.

Re:Original LWN discussion

[lga]

Lets not forget the thousands of Iraqis who were tortured on a daily basis and the thousands more abused under the Iraqi government.

Let's not forget the hundreds of iraqis now being killed by US soldiers. Let's not forget the thousands of people who are still without water, electricity or food. Let's not forget that the soldiers were supposed to leave as soon as possible.

Then again, maybe you don't get those reports on the news in your area.

Re:Original LWN discussion

[Gri77oN]

(my first post on /.)

(I'm a french pothead that doesn't drink nor smoke)

I think that you're making a point very VERY important here:

US citizen (as it seems from france) are NOT educated.

I'll make my point :

In paris youy are allowed to drink alcool on the street, but are not allowd to /be drunk/ on the street.
(it's the right opposit in NewYork, or so I've been told)

So in NewYork, you can be completly drunk on the streets, with all the danger that could outcome from such a situation, but there are many restrictions as to where and how yo drink.

on the opposit, in Paris, the legal system take the citiezen as "educated" enough to drink and stop /before/ being drunk.

now, wich one of these two "currents of law" is enlighten?
is it the one that actualy allows the citizen to endanger himself and others, and prohibits him from doing something as harmless as drinking,
or is it the one that lets you drink until your become a danger to yourself or others?

now in the us, you can go to prison for life for selling pot, but can be on the street again after having killed/raped?

those americans that control the country since 2nd world war, are inteligent people, yea right, but their are not into altruism, whereas such control should be held by altruism.
(mind me, with chirac, look who's talking)

Re:Original LWN discussion

[Smeagel]

No offense, but there are stupid laws in every country. You're the one being foolish if you think that the US is the leader of stupid laws. US citizen (as it seems from france) are NOT educated. Funny that one of our 50 states (california) alone has a larger economy than all you genius french citizens. Oh yeah, your economy is also shrinking drastically solely because we decided to stop visiting you after you desecrated the cemeteries that our grandfathers are buried in from liberating you from nazi's -- classy. Your post is pretty funny though, you accuse all American citizens of being uneducated solely because there's a law against drinking in public in New York. You probably don't understand our version of Federalism, since your government operates differently not because I'm calling you stupid, but just because a law is in New York doesn't mean it's everywhere. For instance, it is illegal period to drink OR be drunk in public in Ohio and Indiana. I'd be willing to bet, if you were intelligent enough to do your research, you'd find it IS illegal to be drunk on the streets in New York. Everywhere I've been in this country it is illegal to be drunk in the streets (Public Intoxication) IF you are making it obvious. I suspect that's the only way it's illegal in France too -- they don't go around breathalizing everybody do they? And by the way, I'd never call an entire country of citizens ignorant -- especially if my own country's economy was largely dependant on the aforementioned country's tourism.

Re:Original LWN discussion

[SubtleNuance]

BULLSHIT!

This *is the* reason the world disagreed w/ the US.

Good leaders make decisions based on PRINCIPLE(!); and the "We are going to invade Iraq because we lie about trumped-up charges" is *not a reason*.

The rest of the planet didnt want to *start a war* -- you know, launch an army to INVADE another country... there is NO reason to do it. Ever.

Because USofAmerica believes it can do what it likes, on the basis of serving its percieved-best-interest is what irks the planet. We have to apply international law, freedoms, rights and responsibilities equally. Not "might-makes-right" pursuit of national interests.

Bottom line: i applaud the French for standing up refusing to legitimize the illegal invasion, slaughter, and occupation of *any* nation... its was in the USA's interest to do it to Iraq -- who else? when? The USA is a rogue nation, out of control... lead by unprincipled tyrants.

Re:Original LWN discussion

[hesiod]

> Do you think we're as stupid as you?

Well, since America was made up of mostly Europeans, yes, we are exactly as stupid as you.

Re:Original LWN discussion

[4of12]

Lets not forget the thousands of Iraqis who were tortured on a daily basis and the thousands more abused under the Iraqi government.

Yes, I'm glad that stopped.

But that has not been a consistent good reason for invading another country.

If it were, why isn't the United States invading other countries with appalling records of human rights abuse?

PRC, North Korea, Myanmar, Zimbabwe, Congo, just about every other country in the Middle East, etc.

It's becoming clear that GWB made a mistake. If the evidence for WMD was just so compelling, then it certainly ought to have turned up by now, as American forces have free reign to look anywhere in Iraq. Many American choose to believe his warnings about WMD in Iraq. The evidence he presented months ago was not compelling, but one could always argue that he was supplied with greater evidence that he could not reveal due to concerns of national security and preserving an intelligence-gathering capability. That is, we had to trust him that he really dug deep into the evidence and knew categorically that WMD in Iraq were a problem. [The supposed tie between bin Laden and Saddam Hussein was as weak as they get. If removing bin Laden's support network were the real object, the USA would have invaded Pakistan, Saudi Arabia, Sudan and not Iraq.]

I support American troops, who are dedicated men and women, and have sworn an oath to obey their commander in chief. They're great people we can ill afford to lose and they're putting their lives on the line.

Theremore, the commander in chief has an incredibly important responsibility to exercise, and he has not done it properly.

I don't believe GWB is malicious or evil, just not capable of acting as President of the United States with the dedication and thoroughness the office deserves. He's made a mistake in gullibility, believing Rumsfeld and Wolfowitz, and accepting their appointments inthe first place, not willing to do the homework it takes to know what is really going on. Before you commit someone else's life to a military objective, you owe it to them to be as smart as you can, as hardworking as you can, willing question your advisors, get alternative opinions, etc.

The United States Armed Forces, the people of the United States, and the world at large, all deserve the best possible person in that position. Sadly, the best person is not there now.

Uh, note to SCO

[Anonymous Coward]

You're a corporation. You're supposed to keep quite and smirk at protesters. You do not allow your employees to come out and hold their own "anti protest", especially when a large percentage of the computing world think you're unbalanced anyway!

Earth to SCO. SCO come in now...I think we lost 'em.

Re:Uh, note to SCO

[SpaceLifeForm]

It's a bit more that just a last-ditch attempt at saving a dying company.

Ouch! Ok, ok, so I lied.

Re:Lets all join Hands (handles)

[jmaatta]

Maybe all this SCO stuff should be placed under its own topic. That would make ignoring it a lot easier.

pro-linux sco employees

[stonebeat.org]

I wonder how many SCO employees are actually pro-linux, but are afraid to say anything, against their own company......

Re:pro-linux sco employees

[d3faultus3r]

Quite a bit. If you look at the history of SCO, half the time they were working on Linux alongside UNIX. I'm sure a lot of SCO employees developed an affinity for Linux.

Re:pro-linux sco employees

[Jonner]

Unless there's been a purge, I'm sure many of them are big GNU/Linux users, since that was one of the company's main products until a month or two ago.

Re:pro-linux sco employees

[WCMI92]

"I wonder how many SCO employees are actually pro-linux, but are afraid to say anything, against their own company....."

Does SCaldera have any employees left who aren't lawyers?

Re:pro-linux sco employees

[althalus]

Actually most of their IT guys were standing outside of the building watching us. Many of them are actually members of the LUG...

Re:pro-linux sco employees

[newhoggy]

They're pretty good artists though - maybe they should consider changing professions.

Slightly OT - The SCO dog ;)

[Daath]

Userfriendly has modified a Gary Larson (Farside) comic to fit SCO! It's quite funny!

Re:Slightly OT - The SCO dog ;)

[Otter]

Fairly typical User Friendly: "I must write a strip ridiculing SCO and defending Linux users against accusations of ignoring the IP rights of others. But how? Got it -- I'll steal Gary Larson's old bit about what the dog hears! Except I'll modify it just enough to make it no longer make sense!"

And the readers see it and go, "Hey, I use Linux! And I know about SCO! And I know the original cartoon!"

Image Problems?

[RWarrior(fobw)]

I can't mirror the pictures, but when they get Slashdotted, the important text on the signs are below, since I can't mirror them.

It this really the image these people want to project?

• "Legalize Stupidity - Smoke Linux"
• "Give Communism A Try - Free Linux"
• "Who's Down With IPOP - Other People's Intellectual Property" with Tux saying "I'm Down I'm Down"
• "My Son Stole Code & Republished It (and all I got was this lousy t-shirt"
• "I Don't Pay For Music - I Don't Pay For My O.S. Either - So Sue Me"
• "Software Stealing Is Not A Crime - In Iraq And Parts of France"
• "I [heart] Software Piracy" complete with Tux in a pirate outfit

Too bad I'm not an SCO shareholder. Maybe I could sue SCO management for permitting such stupid childishness on company time.

Re:Image Problems?

[drinkypoo]

Of course, if the signs were dreamed up on company time, especially if they were thought up by marketing (they have that look about them) then it's not a free speech issue, it's a how are you spending money that could instead be used to raise stock prices issue.

Re:Image Problems?

[cowmix]

* "Give Communism A Try - Free Linux"

Hmm.. well is was Caldera riding on high on the capitalistic Linux
IPO craze of the late 90s that allowed them to purchase SCO thus
any usable IP left in SystemV code base. It was the promise of Linux
who bank rolled the whole thing. I think that anyone who bought
into their IPO because they thought they were investing in a Linux
company should get their money back.

Re:Image Problems?

[Kaeru the Frog]

"Who's Down With IPOP - Other People's Intellectual Property" with Tux saying "I'm Down I'm Down"

Naughty by Nature promptly treatened to sue SCO for unauthorized use of it copyrighted material. When asked what matereal exactly was copied, Naughty by Nature refused to say claiming if they disclosed they risked others also using it without their permission.

Re:Image Problems?

[netsharc]

Legalize Stupidity alright, because at the moment SCO is breaking the law with copious amounts of it.

Re:Image Problems?

[divide overflow]

i m not justifying any of these, but SCO employees have their right of free speech as well. SCO management can not stop them, nor do they have to.

Yeah, right. What planet are YOU on?

• The right of free speech is a restriction preventing the government from limiting your speech. It is standard practice for companies to tell their employees what they should and shouldn't say to the press.
• Do you think for an instant that SCO would allow any of their employees to keep their jobs if they stood out their and SUPPORTED the protestors? That would be a MEANINGFUL test of their right of free speech. If the company didn't want them to come "out of the SCO building with pre-prepared posters for the protest" do you think they would allow them to? Their lawyers would most certainly have sent memos around telling the employees exactly how they were expected to behave.

In short, the notion that these folks aren't supported by SCO or that SCO wouldn't stop them if they didn't support such activities is ludicrous and absurd. Anyone who would harbor such delusions should seek professional help.

Re:Image Problems?

[Dumbush]

Dude, havn't you learn from our leader? You can never go wrong blaming Iraq, France, and communism.

Now to all hawks, rejoice!
Hail Bush!

Re:Image Problems?

[divide overflow]

Uhm, talking about planets...: No, that's the US version of free speech, codified in the first amendment. The US is not the whole planet, and for quite a lot of the rest of the planet, that's insufficient protection.

DUH! The protest is happening in the U.S., so I'd think it obvious to everyone that the laws of the U.S. are applicable. Apparently you aren't familiar with the idiomatic expression "What planet are YOU on"--here in the U.S. it can be interpreted as "Are you as clueless about U.S. law as a Norwegian is about U.S. idiomatic expressions?" ;^)

Re:Image Problems?

[rifter]

Hmm, that reminds me. I am out of cheeto's... mmmmm cheetos...

actionable?

[lophophore]

Just wondering: Since some of those signs seem to imply that Linus is a thief, I wonder if he can now sue SCO for defamation???

Read this before bashing SCO

[Martin Kallisti]

From the LWN page: This is sad... (Posted Jun 22, 2003 20:47 UTC (Sun) by erat) (Post reply) No, not the SCO folks who made the signs... It's the people who don't have a shred of humor left and, more importantly, weren't even there who seem to be take everything SCO employees touch as being an insult. I work across the street from SCO. I was at the protest. At one point, I was one of the people carrying a SCO-produced sign (as a JOKE. At one point I even saw picketters holding SCO signs). If you were there you'd know that the entire event -- albeit serious in its message -- was taken in good spirits by pretty much everyone. I'd be surprised if anyone seriously though the SCO signs were meant to be anything but fun. You remember FUN, don't you?? It's like when you're in a bar watching a football game and there are folks rooting for the other team in the bar with you; friendly "traitor" jabs are tossed back and forth, joking insinuations are made, and in the end you all laugh together and say "bye" when you leave. Here are some facts that some (all?) of you didn't get from the pictures: 1) It was very hot that day so Canopy provided drinks for everyone, including the protesters. And yes, protesters took them up on the drinks, and they even said "thanks". 2) SCO and Canopy employees (including Ralph Yarro and Darl McBride, among others) shared laughs with the picketters. No, I didn't see Chris Sontag or Blake Stowell out there, but I don't know them so I could have just missed them. 3) Darl, on his way home, stopped by the picketting near 1600 N. (he didn't have to; he could have driven by and nobody would have noticed) and chatted with the protesters. There are at least two pictures of him with his arms around a few of the protesters, and all of them are happy. Sorry folks, but other than a reporter who got heat stroke, the people who showed up had a good time. The folks there mixed with SCO, Canopy, etc. employees from around the office complex, had some fun with the "rivalry", and went on their merry way happy. At least that was my observation. The intent of the protest was to bring attention to the opinions of those who oppose SCO's actions, not to threaten, throw things, fight, or yell. In that regard, the protest was more successful than I would have hoped. Nobody walked away with a different opinion of SCO's actions, but people can disagree without hating each other. At least here in Utah they can.

Re:Read this before bashing SCO

[mcgroarty]

When somebody's shouting lies about you, while simultaneously trying to steal your property and sell it back to you, humor shouldn't be high up your priority list.

There are times for fun, and there are times for seriously defending what you think is important.

This is a time to take up a rigid position, and this isn't an appropriate area for feel-good games. Put plainly: The world's single most important piece of free software and the future of free software's acceptance are at stake.

Re:Read this before bashing SCO

[mcgroarty]

Bad things are happening every day. You don't give up your life and go checking door to door for unjust actions for the rest of your life. But you don't make light of these things when they happen, either.

Re:Read this before bashing SCO

[amcnabb]

I was there, too, and I don't agree with this interpretation of what the SCO people were doing. First of all, they only gave drinks to two or three people; the rest of us had our own.

And none of our protesters touched their anti-protest signs. The writer of this comment must have mistaken them for our people because the signs were being marched around.

Sure, everyone had a great time, but I don't feel like the SCO people were very respectful, except for McBride who talked to us in a political not-actually-answering-any-questions way.

Re:Read this before bashing SCO

[toopc]

If you'll recall, in the past Microsoft has acted this way in reponse to Pro-Linux protestors as well.

Basically it's a not so subtle way of saying, "You're protest is meaningless. It does not matter as it accomplishes nothing more than making you feel better about yourself. Enjoy the discussion on Slashdot, but until then have some milk and cookies on us."

I know that's harsh, but it's the truth of the matter. This protest will not result in any meaningful public outcry, nor will it effect the upcoming legal case in any way. SCO may lose, SCO may win, but this protest won't figure into it, therefore they have nothing to lose by being nice and essentially treating it as a joke.

Linux Users Shut Their Windows

Microsoft officials served refreshments to the demonstrators on the upper deck of their parking lot under an 8 foot banner that read: "Microsoft Welcomes the Linux Community."

Re:Read this before bashing SCO

[WannaBeGeekGirl]

The parent post hardly provides any information or insight for me to think twice before bashing SCO. Its misleading at best.

First of all, the post contradicts its own statement that the protest "was taken in good spirits by pretty much everyone". The author goes on to state that he/she isn't even sure that no one misinterpreted the SCO signs. Its really just his/her guess that everyone else found it funny.
Comparing people to Hitler, making light of significant historical events that had huge casualties and singling out specific people isn't light-hearted, joking, funny humor - its satire or the stuff political cartoons are made of, even worse its what controversial cable network commentaries that claim to be news shows use to get people's attention. (Basically, this kind of stuff that is guaranteed to offend someone, regardless of the intentions.) These kind of catalytic comparisons utilized at protests in outdoor public places aren't what the status quo implicitly sees as "fun" or "funny". In fact, I don't think protests are typically seen as fun events. (Aren't there so many better ways to spend a Friday?) This "protest" is starting to sound like a party.

Next, I fail to see how portraying the whole event as more of a party than a protest is causing me to think before bashing SCO (or anyone). Obviously, if the protested issues are going to court, its not much of a party for anyone, except possibly legal parties who might end up making money.

In defense of the quoted poster, we have no idea of the original context. All we see is this post. But that just begs the question of why this is relevant information even more.

Before suggesting that there is another side to SCO's response to be found in this information, at least present some clear evidence within an established context.

WBGG

Commie Scare

[bstadil]

Even though

Nostalgia isn't what it used to be !

it's hard not to feel a little sentimental when you see good old Commie Scare posters.

Guess the employees protesting felt akin to the Iraqs cheering Sadam at his strolling casual thru streets of Baghdad TV shows.

SCO employees

[mocm]

Wouldn't SCO employees be better advised to write their resumees, instead of protesting. They probably will have to get new jobs soon. Not that they seem busy doing anything else.
And it doesn't matter whether SCO wins or loses. They seem to be an IP (not that they ever created any) only company now and would probably not need many employees, except for lawyers.

Don't jump to conclusions about the SCO people...

[mdb31]

I don't want to interrupt a perfectly good rant here, but you may want to follow the link in comment #6269021 (should be the FP in this thread if you're reading at a reasonable score treshold...). Idiotic though the whole SCO lawsuit is, the protest and counter-protest actually seemede quite friendly -- to quote a poster on the aforementioned LWN board:

It's the people who don't have a shred of humor left and, more importantly, weren't even there who seem to be take everything SCO employees touch as being an insult.

I work across the street from SCO. I was at the protest. At one point, I was one of the people carrying a SCO-produced sign (as a JOKE. At one point I even saw picketters holding SCO signs). If you were there you'd know that the entire event -- albeit serious in its message -- was taken in good spirits by pretty much everyone. I'd be surprised if anyone seriously though the SCO signs were meant to be anything but fun.

You remember FUN, don't you?? It's like when you're in a bar watching a football game and there are folks rooting for the other team in the bar with you; friendly "traitor" jabs are tossed back and forth, joking insinuations are made, and in the end you all laugh together and say "bye" when you leave.


You may want to read the rest of that message as well, and just give it a rest... Not if Slashdot hasn't dumped enough vitriol on SCO already lately.

Re:Mad?

[GlassUser]

This is rich. I think I am starting to like SCO. Kinda in the way you liked the nerd in middle school, and would save the special lunch money theft for him.

Ok, I read it.

[Anonymous Coward]

SCO still sucks.

Wow

[antiMStroll]

I owe the Slashdot crowd an apology. Seeing that type of behaviour here, I thought it was a thousands high schoolers bashing away at a thousand library computers on their first, euphoric Internet high. But damn, professional adults stoop to this kind of bigoted, ad hominem baiting? Communism and Iraq? And France? Man, that's unbelievably depressing. All I can hope is potential future employers of these people see those signs before SCO does it's inevitable endo.

Darl McBride?

[metatruk]

In this pic you can see that Darl McBride has his arms around two of the protestors:
http://mirror.lug-nut.com/mcnabb/med/IMG_0057.JPG

Re:Darl McBride?

[amcnabb]

And interestingly, he waved the one side of the folder in front of us, informing us that he was able to show us the Linux side but not the other "proprietary" side. Of course, he did it quickly enough that we weren't able to read a line of it.

Communist Nazi's?

[Warshadow]

In the sign on the right in this picture:

http://www.kuwan.net/scoAntiProtest/scoAntiProte st -Pages/Image0.html

Is rather amusing. Not only do the folks at SCO apparently not have internet access, so they can use something like babelfish to look up the proper spelling of "ja vol" (ja wohl) they also seem to think Nazi's were communist instead of fascist?

Someone didn't do to well in their WW2 history class!

Re:Communist Nazi's?

[1010011010]

I'm tired of people indiscriminately branding [communism] evil

Why? Point out an example of communism that wasn't or isn't evil.

In the United States a person will soon be defenseless against corporations. Is this a failure of capitalism or of the government?

The government. Sometimes I wonder if corporate power isn't a way around the constitution. Corporations should never have been declared to be "people."

Re:Communist Nazi's?

[EvilNTUser]

"Why? Point out an example of communism that wasn't or isn't evil."

That's very hard, but my point was that Marx would probably not agree with the things those countries are doing. And I repeat, I don't think communism can work. However, I do think that some of the ideals are worth striving for. But perhaps socialism would be a better word.

"The government. Sometimes I wonder if corporate power isn't a way around the constitution. Corporations should never have been declared to be \"people.\""

That's what I meant. If we can't blame capitalism for the current situation - and we shouldn't - then we should be very careful about blaming communism for the USSR etc.

This will NOT help SCO's...

[chipster]

case in the least bit. This proves their immaturity, and the fact that they cannot in any way, be taken seriously.

Analogizing drugs and Open Source is 13-year-old crap, and I'm sure ESR and others will have a ball with this.

Nice going SCO. Thanks for proving (in "graphic" detail) what kind of corporation you truly represent.

As bugs would say:

[conteXXt]

"Of course you know, this means war!"

Prepared? What other kinds of signs are there?

[Pvt_Waldo]

"Among other things, the protesters claim that SCO employes came out and joined the event holding pre-prepared signs saying things like 'I love software piracy' and 'Try communism - use Linux.'"

Erm, what other kinds are there? Ones that spontaneously draw themselves? I bet the protestors showed up with pre-prepared signs as well :^)

This really is pointless for all parties.

[rdewald]

For the sake of discussion, let's assume the case has merit. The Linux community will rewrite the improperly used code, redesigning it if need be, craft tools to migrate everyone over to it, and go on. This is open source, utter transparency, no secrets. They can't go after every line of the current kernel, we know that, and there's more than one way to do everything.

SCO will be soon be a shell company. They might as well be making buggy whips. I think this is the ultimate agenda of the leadership, they just hope to cash out with the settlement from IBM.

It was interesting to me how the PR folks tried to associate Linux with software piracy and communism. I don't think this is because of a real misperception on their part, it seems much more likely to be spin-directed FUD. It's more pathetic than enraging to me.

It really all seems like a legal strategy to exploit the fact that our IP laws have not really caught up with the PC revolution. They might get some money from IBM, if they do, they leverage their legal victory and liquid revenues to bump the stock price and sell the company. It won't fool Warren Buffet or Peter Lynch, but there are still plenty of fools with money in the world.

This type of business strategy--utterly bereft of moral values--has not yet entirely faded from view. The real tragedy is not the threat to Linux, but the threat to SCO employees and investors. I don't see this working out well for them in any way. Some lawyers will get rich, though.

So, follow the money. SCO is now a lawsuit machine. IBM will survive this no matter how it turns out. SCO won't.

Re:This really is pointless for all parties.

[rdewald]

Yeah, I do think they understand both the issues and the language. It's not that I have a high estimation of them. I've spent a significant portion of my IT consulting career working for litigation firms. The top-down overview of this just too closely resembles a litigation team taking advantage of a legal position in a relatively unchallenged area of the law. It is best, they estimate, to act as stupid as possible to narrow the debate as much as one can. They're aren't unintelligent, they just lack virtuous character.

If you treat code like prose, which is essentially what the current copyright laws do, you're bound to end up in situations like this at some point. Until the system acquires the wisdom to correctly resolve these new kinds of arguments concerning what property really is, ligitators know that the early birds are going to get the big worms, if there are any to be had.

$5M profit on $25M of revenue is is not as much money as it sounds like and their company name will be in ruin no matter how this turns out. If they win, they're the new bullies, if they lose, they will expose the idiocy underlying their allegations. Either way, stick the proverbial fork in them, they're done.

This is every bit as stupid as the AOL-Time Warner merger. But that doesn't mean some people aren't going to get rich. If the last 10 years have demonstrated anything, it's that there are other ways to derive a fortune from one's association with a tech company than just selling good products and providing excellent customer service.

MAN, ARE YOU EVER FIRED!

[YOU ARE SO FIRED!]

Yeah, it is too bad you're not an SCO shareholder. Then you'd at least have a tiny amount of money to spend on groceries that you could snack on while standing in the unemployment line. Come on, take a hike. You're fired. You can come in on Saturday to pick up your belongings (such as they are). Now, I'm going to get some ice cream and then crawl into my bed made mostly of $100 dollar bills and ripped up resumes.

What's the big deal about the signs? They're kinda funny. I'd wear a shirt (on my off days, of course) that said, "I Don't Pay For Music - I Don't Pay For My O.S. Either."

Re:Mad?

[Esion Modnar]

betchya a dollar there's an admin there who reads /.

And in a few months he (or she, you goddamn PC assholes) will have a lot more time to read /. SCO has not just filed suit against IBM, they have declared war against the rest of the IT world. (Linux = Communism?!?!)

These people better start thinking towards the post-SCO world, much like the concentration camp guards started making nice towards the end of WWII.

You see, even if they win their lawsuit against IBM and everybody else, they will be a pariah in the tech community. Nobody will do business with them, and eventually they'll spend their $3 billion on operating expenses and tacos and go bankrupt.

And most of the OSS community will be saying goodbye good riddance.

Pretty busy those SCO people

[arcanumas]

As much as i hate SCO i have to admit that some of these SCO posters are actually nice.
I can't help but wonder how much coding thy do and how much drawing.
If their people did as much coding as drawing they would not be in this position right now.

I'm sorry, but this is not enough.

[callforsco]

I hate to say it, but I think that this protest isn't going to do a god damn thing. Protests like this are pretty much ignored by everybody in the corporate setting; if anything, all it does is make corporate people roll their eyes.

Take it from me - I work for a Fortune 500 company (no not microsoft ;-)) that gets protests pretty much *weekly* and the upshot of it is that company email gives logistical directions on where and how to avoid the protests. (ironically, I think that the protesters are *dead on* but believe me, its not going to change the company's practices. Nothing but an act of god is going to do that.)

Anyways, don't get me wrong. I think that SCO is a borderline illegal company, but to *really* hurt them where it counts, we need to organize online. Hurting them where it counts means presenting the SEC with a well-thought out case on why they need to be investigated.

I posted the following proposal to slashdot (it was rejected, probably because it was too controversial) and the gist was that SCO's share price (ticker symbol SCOX) has gone up 1400% on rumors and FUD. Now SCO may have a case, they may not have a case, but the least that should happen is an investigation by the SEC into the facts surrounding this incident.

Here's a SEC link that lets you enter a complaint. Hell, if SCO gets enough heat from this, they may divulge all. We deserve, as a community, to be able to evaluate their gripe objectively, and that requires full disclosure by SCO of what their gripe is. SCO's failure to do so is *hurting our livelihood* - and at the least it is libelous.

Anyways, below is the text of the original submission. I'm hoping to get it on the head Slashdot page, so if you could submit it as a story, I think it would do us all a favor. (Note to slashdot editors - a 'soapbox' icon would be very nice... something which allows users to post controversial stories like this whilst having a disclaimer so slashdot can keep its nose clean)

original submission:

I just read the vaguely demeaning forbes article describing the complacency of the linux community, and believe me, this "crunchie" wasn't pleased, at either a) being called a crunchie for having the ethics to be upset about what SCO is doing, or b) for being labeled as ineffective and powerless. The truth is, the open source community isn't powerless. The whole SCO incident has a very bad smell to it, and what they are doing (and the consequent effect on their stock price) is in my opinion highly unethical if not illegal. I am not a lawyer (or SEC official for that matter) but their stock price has jumped from 60 cents to $11 per share, in dubious circumstances... so in my opinion at the very least the SEC should be notified about the unsavory aspects of it and other pieces of background info so they can do an investigation and find out the facts for themselves. So - I think the open source community should take a stand. If you don't like what SCOX is doing, here is the sec complaint form where you can submit evidence, background facts, personal knowledge, and - if you think so - your opinion about how malfeasant SCOX's actions are and the damages that they are doing. (Any info about how SCOX insiders are capitalizing on the stock price would be especially helpful.. personally, its the element I find most distasteful of all, and if they find manipulation, its information the SEC can directly use.) How many people read slashdot? How would the SEC handle 500,000 complaints? Only time would tell - but I think at the minimum it would warrant an investigation, possibly even a class-action suit. Anyways, if you are going to submit, please be civil about it. The worst thing possible would be for the SEC to get lots of long-winded rants - they want courteous dialog and accurate information they can use, not a vitriolic screed of profan

Re:I'm sorry, but this is not enough.

[amcnabb]

What do you think we're trying to do? Do you think we're so stupid that we think we're going to change SCO's mind?

No way!

The purpose of the protest was to show normal everyday people, through the media, what is really going on in the peaceful town of Lindon. And you know what? We were successful. Two major Utah newspapers covered our protest, and we had a front page article with one of them.

After the "chat" we had with McBride, it was obvious that he didn't care at all about what we thought, but as long as the public is a little more aware of the issues, we feel we were successful.

And besides, we had a lot of fun.

Re:Don't jump to conclusions about the SCO people.

[the gnat]

That sounded like bullshit to me, until I found the pictures of Darl McBride and a couple of protestors. God knows the Linux community can be, um, a little humorless and self-congratulatory, and SCO has veered into the realm of insanity. The concept of Darl laughing with the pro-Linux people simply doesn't make any sense whatsoever, since he's accused nearly half the tech industry of outright theft. It's hard to think of any of this as "FUN" when you're dealing with a group of corporate raiders who are literally trying to sabotage the future of computing.

I'd reached the conclusion a long time ago that Linux was grossly overrated, but it's also done great things for my workplace and my research field, and it's a shame to see another sleazebag IP holding company try to hijack that. I don't condone IP theft or DDoS attacks on SCO's website, but I also wouldn't speak to the likes of Darl McBride except through a lawyer.

Oh, by the way, the Communism thing isn't funny any more. It's not McCarthyism, but it's pretty fucking stupid and offensive. Most of us in The Real World use and like Linux because it helps us do our jobs and make (and save!) money, not because it fits our half-baked socialist ideals.

SCO really does want to own Linux

[Stephen Samuel]

SCO spokesman Blake Stowell says his company's lawsuit will not put an end to Linux.

"Linux could still be used; it just wouldn't be free," Stowell said. "These people are upset because they've been enjoying a free ride for some time. They're upset their free ride will potentially be gone."

I think that this pretty much puts to rest the question of whether or not SCO wants to own Linux.

Part of the problem is that this wouldn't work. Under the GPL, if you can't distribute it for free, you can't distribute it at all. To relicense Linux as an SCO-0wned product, you'd have to get the agreement of all the contributors. I doubt that that would happen.

Re:SCO really does want to own Linux

[amcnabb]

I was at the little "chat" with McBride afterwards. He informed us that home users don't have to worry yet, but that commercial users aren't going to get away with their free lunches anymore. McBride repeatedly (at least 10 times) said that SCO's intentions would become clear in July.

My impression is that in July, SCO is going to send a bill to each of the 1500 companies that they sent the warnings to, and more. I think that they're going to start collecting money before anything has happened in court.

Friendly?

[drivers]

With all the comments on here that "the protest was friendly, SCO gave us lemonade, and everyone laughed and had a good time" about the anti-protest it makes me wonder what the protesters were trying to accomplish. The way I look at it is the purpose of a protest is to raise the social costs (in other words make it more costly for SCO to pursue the actions they are trying for than the rewards they think they will gain from it) against the company you are protesting. As it is, SCO is making itself look bad enough through its own actions. It sounds like there were no real demands and anywhere to raise the social costs if they didn't meet those demands.

Its called baiting

[gad_zuki!]

They want Linux users and OSS types to fly off the handle thus creating more negative press, just ignore them. Right now they're only making themselves look bad. Really bad. Man, these are adults?

Re:Its called baiting

[Dr_Marvin_Monroe]

I can't agree more with the poster.

At this stage, ANY coverage that SCO gets directly benifits them. This is precisely why they have chosen to "dribble" out little bits of information, escalate their rhetoric and claims and generally try this case in the media BEFORE getting to court.

The best thing the Linux community could do is to start shaping the "language" of the case in the court of public opinion, making sure that the language is centered on "where's the evidence?"....

The burden is on them to show where copying took place...do NOT allow them to start making this a case about "Linux helps terrorists" or "Linux is for criminals"....they will attempt to shift the argument to this, baiting us to defend our "non-criminal" status....if it gets that far, they've won...

The best answer is to follow IBM's lead..."we've done nothing wrong, so there's no need for comment"....followed by media blackout. This would hurt SCO more than a few signs and protesters.....keep them out of the spotlight, and every time they announce another increase in damages or whatnot, they will appear more shrill....

Shun them completely!....and DONT BUY THEIR PRODUCTS!...but most importantly, stay away from this rabid dog....stay far away....

Conversation between SCO and AIX

[Bruj0]

Topic in #os: hey guyz, stop pickin on irix.
<SCO> w00t! i bought unix! im gonna b so rich!
<novell> /msg atnt haha. idiot.
<novell> whoops. was that out loud?
<atnt> rotfl
<ibm> lol
<SCO> why r u laffin at me?
<novell> dude, unix is so 10 years ago. linux is in now.
<SCO> wtf?
<SCO> hey guyz, i bought caldera, I have linux now.
<red_hat> haha, your linux sucks.
<novell> lol
<atnt> lol
<ibm> lol
<SCO> no wayz, i will sell more linux than u!
<ibm> your linux sucks, you should look at SuSE
<SuSE> Ja. Wir bilden gutes Linux für IBM.
<SCO> can we do linux with you?
<SuSE> Ich bin nicht sicher...
<ibm> *cough*
<SuSE> Gut lassen Sie uns vereinigen.
* SuSE is now SuSE[UL]
* SCO is now caldera[UL]
<turbolinux> can we play?
<conectiva> we're bored... we'll go too.
<ibm> sure!
* turbolinux is now turbolinux[UL]
* conectiva is now conectiva[UL]
<ibm> redhat: you should join!
<SuSE[UL]> Ja! Wir sind vereinigtes Linux. Widerstand ist vergeblich.
<red_hat> haha. no.
<red_hat> lamers.
<ibm> what about you debian?
<debian> we'll discuss it and let you know in 5 years.
<caldera[UL]> no one wants my linux!
<turbolinux[UL]> i got owned.
<caldera[UL]> u all tricked me. linux is lame.
* caldera[UL] is now known as SCO
<SCO> i'm going back to unix.
<SGI> yeah! want to do unix with me?
<SCO> haha. no. lamer.
<novell> lol
<ibm> snap!
<SGI> :~(
<SCO> hey, u shut up. im gonna sue u ibm.
<ibm> wtf?
<SCO> yea, you stole all the good stuff from unix.
<red_hat> lol
<SuSE[UL]> heraus laut lachen
<ibm> lol
<SCO> shutup. i'm gonna email all your friends and tell them you suck.
<ibm> go ahead. baby.
<SCO> andandand... i revoke your unix! how do you like that?
<ibm> oh no, you didn't. AIX is forever.
<novell> actually, we still own unix, you can't do that.
<SCO> wtf? we bought it from u.
<novell> whoops. our bad.
<SCO> i own u. haha
<SCO> ibm: give me all your AIX now!
<ibm> whatever. lamer.
* ibm sets mode +b SCO!*@*
* SCO has been kicked from #os (own this.)

Re:Conversation between SCO and AIX

[hynek]

Nice copy'n'paste from http://www.livejournal.com/community/linux/397771. html?thread=2531787.
However you forgot to mention it.

Humor or no, SCO signs are wrong

[jonman_d]

The protestor's signs were regular protest signs - "SCO AWAY" and whatnot. They were somewhat whitty, but they had a serious point to make. But the SCO signs were downright awful. I don't know about you, but portraying Linus as Hitler and Tux as a Nazi, with the phrase "give communism a try" isn't funny to me. Especially seeing as how Linus is European...you see where I'm going with this.

Whether it was intended for humor or not, SCO owes Linus and the OSS community a formal appology.

Re:Humor or no, SCO signs are wrong

[alannon]

Actually, a mostly overlooked fact was that Finland was allied with Germany against Russia in WWII. Linus is a Finn. If one assumed that whoever put together these posters actually knew of this fact, it could be seen as a huge insult, comparing Linus himself to a Nazi due to his heritage. I would not, however, give them the credit to put those pieces together and assume it to just be a series of barely sequitur insults strung together.

Re:Humor or no, SCO signs are wrong

[EvilNTUser]

I know you didn't draw any conclusions from Finland being allied with Germany, but before anyone else does, I would like to point out two things:

1) Russia sought to invade Finland
2) No one else would help

Re:Humor or no, SCO signs are wrong

[glesga_kiss]

Which is pretty much why Cuba embraced all things Soviet...the USA sought to invade Cuba. And did. Twice. With "Terrorists". So the Cubans turn to the Ruskies, get the bomb as a self-defence, last resort, and WW3 nearly kicks off.

Most strategic alliances are based on self-interest rather than ideology.

Re: Humor or no, SCO signs are wrong

[Anonymous Bullard]

Britain tried to promote the creation of a neutral Nordic (Norway, Sweden, Finland) zone to prevent the germans from gaining access the massive nickel deposits in the Finnish Lapland.

Stalin refused to allow this. What the world didn't know back then was that Stalin and Hitler already had a secret pact diving Europe between them, and Stalin considered Finland and her resources to be his.

Churchill was pissed when Stalin attacked Finland (having even the nerve to claim at the time that it was Finland who started the war LOL), giving Hitler his cue to start occupying Norway.

In what became known as the miracle of the winter war, an ad-hoc Finnish army with no modern weapons or even rifles for everyone, beat back a massive mechanized Soviet force and managed to sue for peace in spring '40 when even bullets were running out in many sectors of the front.

Until 1941 Churchill was praising Finland as the model for all nations fighting against tyranny but neither Britain nor US were prepared to offer Finland material assistance to keep any imminent threats (i.e. Stalin, who's purges the Finns had helplessly witnessed across the border for a decade) at bay. Out of ammo and any modern gear, Finland is approached by Germany who are prepared to sell them much of what is needed (in preparation of their own Operation Barbarossa, as it turned out).

Let's see what the choices were: 1) Refuse German material aid and subject the Finnish nation to Stalin's mass murder, or 2) Accept the material support (without political alliance), at least have a chance of defending yourself and unfortunately piss off Churchill who was offering no material support anyway.

Soviet bombers began bombing Finnish cities and air fields without declaring a war (nothing new there) a few days after Hitler had betrayed his friend Stalin by invading, and with the red army occupying the homes of some 400,000+ Finns after the winter war, those folks were soon to be back fixing their homes and resuming their lives.

After reaching the old borders, and even invading western parts of Soviet-held Karelia where ethnic Finns and Karelians had been suffering under the totalitarian communist rule and contemplated their own independence, the war became stationary until Stalin (using the latest weaponry Britain and US could provide them) started another massive attack in '44 and under the imminent threat of national extermination and genocide, the Finnish parliament agreed to some very harsh and unjust peace terms dictated by the Dear Leader himself.

In the final peace treaty in Paris '47, just before the Cold War began in full swing, the western allies watched approvingly as the Soviets pushed all their demands through, threatening to throw the Finnish delegation out if they were to as much as speak.

End result for Finland: hundreds of thousands of casualties, second largest city (Vyborg, now decayed beyond recognition) and the homes and lands of over 400,000 people surrendered to Stalin, massive war reparations to Stalin (uniquely paid in full, while many others were receiving Marshall aid) and, bitterly, declaration of accepting guilt for the whole madness. Oh, but Finland was never occupied so the civilian population was spared from the horrors in which tens of millions russians and their occupied neighbors died...

In a sense, therefore, one can argue that Hitler's desire to keep Stalin busy with Finland created the path of history in which Linus was born with appreciation for freedom and yet with ability to freely engage in modern western scientific cooperation that lead to the release of Linux and the subsequent SCaldera scam and yesterday's picketting...

(I was just trying to help you guys back on topic here!)

ironic

[Ender Ryan]

Is it not ironic that SCO calls Linux "communist", but Linux companies are making more money than SCO these days in the (relatively) free market?

Contra protest totally understandable

[OeLeWaPpErKe]

what else would a non-lawyer sco employee be doing all day ?

Re:Contra protest totally understandable

[Anonymous Coward]

what else would a non-lawyer sco employee be doing all day ?

Well, the obvious answer is...

Sucking

Cock

Often

Re:Contra protest totally understandable

[cyroth]

Rewriting the SCO kernel and adding in lines from HURD? Might as well take out two birds with one stone. Or 2 OS'es with one lie ^H^H^H legitimate lawsuit

Blake Stowells Comments...

[Chicane-UK]

"Linux could still be used; it just wouldn't be free," Stowell said. "These people are upset because they've been enjoying a free ride for some time. They're upset their free ride will potentially be gone."

Maybe he needs to be reminded about GPL and what it stands for. I hate to tell you this Blake, but you and your bullshit company will get annhilated by IBM.

It sickens me that companies (and people) like this feel that potential threats to their business can potentially be converted into revenue streams simply because they have (in the short term at least) money to throw away on lawyers and big threats.

I hope IBM leave the judicial equivilant of a smouldering crater where the SCO office stood.

They don't care

[mcrbids]

SCO doesn't care anymore.

They aren't the same company as Caldera once was - even Ransom Love is gone. I'd seriously doubt if any employees of the company from 2 years ago are there, and most of those from a year ago are probably gone.

The only thing that exists of the Caldera we once knew are the records of its past. It's just a bunch of lawyers at this point, and maybe a few remaining techies.

It is now a purely parasitic organization - and we can all just hope that the remaining IP around Unix is either opened (as being "generic" now) or that the IP is bought by a company that (like AT&T) allows its free use.

I wonder if we are looking at this the wrong way

[Unleashd]

Everyone is always talking about the fact that SCO wants a buy-out ... I'm thinking that is exactly what they want but they are expecting it from a completely different company than IBM. SCO knows that Linux is becoming a major competitor in the Corporate world and what company is doing everything it can to stop this .... ding ding ding ... that's right Microsoft.

I have seen tons of comments about how what SCO is doing is very odd ... normally you approach the party that you believe is causing the problem(IBM in this case) and ask for them to resolve the issue, so that both parties can save face if there is a problem ... however SCO began this in the public domain and refuses to show any actual proof. If actual proof was shown the linux community would remove the lines ASAP (contrary to SCO believe there is definatly more than one way to scin a progrm) however at this point that would damage their prospects at a MS buyout (no linux threat = no MS $$$'s).

At this point they are only damaging their reputation and making people question the reputation of linux. They have destroyed any semblance of a "corporate image". They company that will potentially benefit the most from this whole scandal is MS. I mean look at how quickly they sent funds to SCO. By paying SCO they were trying to "legitimize" SCO's claims in the public eye. I wouldn't be suprised to see a MS buyout of SCO in the neer future.

Re:40,000 Lines...?

[althalus]

Yes, I was misquoted (yes, I'm that Jason Hall, the one who also made the page). The reporter is the same one who suffered the heat stroke, and had absolutely no clue about computers. It was hard enough trying to get her to understand what linux was, or even 'source code'. I did give a more accurate count of total lines, but that didn't get through apparently.

YOU'RE A DUMBASS

[eupheric]

...just kidding!

Fact : SCO is dying

[Sevn]

It is official; IBM confirms: SCO is dying One more crippling bombshell hit the already beleaguered SCO community when IDC confirmed that SCO market share has dropped yet again, now down to less than a fraction of 1 percent of all servers. Coming on the heels of a recent IBM survey which plainly states that SCO has lost more market share, this news serves to reinforce what we've known all along. SCO is collapsing in complete disarray, as fittingly exemplified by failing dead last in the recent Sys Admin comprehensive networking test.

You don't need to be a Microsoft Zealot to predict SCO's future. The hand writing is on the wall: SCO faces a bleak future. In fact there won't be any future at all for SCO because SCO is dying. Things are looking very bad for SCO. As many of us are already aware, SCO continues to lose market share. Red ink flows like a river of blood.

unixware is the most endangered of them all, having lost 93% of its core developers. The sudden and unpleasant departures of long time unixware developers only serve to underscore the point more clearly. There can no longer be any doubt: unixware is dying.

All major surveys show that SCO has steadily declined in market share. SCO is very sick and its long term survival prospects are very dim. If SCO is to survive at all it will be among OS dilettante dabblers. SCO continues to decay. Nothing short of a miracle could save it at this point in time. For all practical purposes, SCO is dead.

Fact: SCO is dying

Who wants to sue SCO

[mormop]

* I love software piracy
* I don't pay for my music, I'm not paying for my os, so sue me
* My son stole code & published it! And all I got was this lousy t-shirt
* Try communism - use Linux


Are these premium grade idiots trying to get sued or what?

1) I am not a software Pirate and have not knowingly used ripped of software. Until the point SCO made their claims over Linux it was under no suspicion of being hooky and until the case and or an injunction it remains that way.

2) I do not download music, I spend most of my time listening to the radio and have more important things to do than rip music off.

3) I am not a communist, although if you litigation monkeys are a sign of capitalism to come I'm thinking there must be a better alternative.

Thanks to those who took the photos, they may come in handy if I ever decide to sue SCO for Libel. Given that these comments are apparently aimed at the entire Linux community how many people are up for a class action suit.

Up yours SCO, you really are a bunch of sad tossers.

The anti-protest was overreported

[expro]

I was at the protest. I saw it pre-announced on /. and decided to show up. Sadly, from the world's perspective, it becomes what was reported.

In some of the media, the SCO signs are shown larger than life. In reality, they were 1. devoid of intelligent comment, 2. quite small, 3. sitting off to the side on SCO property for most of the time. They were mostly insignificant except for to those taking pictures. If individual pictures had been taken of the protester signs, there were 10 good protester signs for every stupid SCO sign, and real stakeholders/protesters circulating them.

It WAS obviously a waste of time to protest in front of SCO for any significant amount of time, and after the first hour the protesters went to a very busy nearby intersection and carried on their protest in complete absence of SCO, and brought hundreds to some degree of awareness of the issues surrounding the case, and what a bunch of scum-sucking lawyers in their community with no technical merit were trying to do to community-developed free software.

Maybe Utah is not unique in giving the establishment much better press than they deserve. Maybe we bring it upon ourselves. I could not say. But regardless, I will be there again next week.

Re:The anti-protest was overreported

[Trollificus]

"But regardless, I will be there again next week."

If over-reporting of SCO drones is a problem, strike back by bringing your own camera and shooting your own pictures. Preferably from wide angles, so the folks at home can get a better sense of what is really going on. I don't know about most people, but shots taken by average joe protestor are a lot more interesting than those tight media shots that leave out 90% of the story.

I'm not being a whining prick. Hell, if I could be there, I would be one of the people taking pictures for people who could not. I'm just saying, we have cheap digital media and the internet at our disposal(that is, until the Slashdot effect gets through with us ;). Beat the mainstream media at its own game!

Re:Buy SCO, fire everyone

[dcavanaugh]

The problem is that a SCO buyout rewards Canopy group, thus encouraging Canopy (and others) to try stunts like this. These bottom-feeders will be back with a new lawsuit every day of the week if this tactic turns a profit.

In the end game: suit or no suit, settlement or no settlement, SCO has little to sell and nobody to sell it to. If IBM takes a hardline attitude (and they win), SCO will be unable to deploy their executive golden parachutes. If McBride & associates actually want to continue their careers, then it becomes interesting.

Absolute worst-case scenario?

[Cid Highwind]

Assume the worst case: SCO wins hands-down

The Linux kernel is found to be a willful violation of SCO's UNIX copyright. In the US, the statutory penalty for willful infringment of copyright is $150,000US per infringment (in this case, every installed Linux kernel would be an infringment) Suddenly, the business community owes SCO $150,000 per Linux server. Most home users owe more than their life's savings. Many will go bankrupt. Google (with 10s of thousands of Linux machines in it's data center) disappears in a puff of debt. Redhat, and any other US-based distros are responsible for several million infringments each, and are liquidated to pay a small fraction of the fine. People and companies in nations that have "harmonized" their copyright laws with the US (poor fools!) are subjected to the same treatment. SCO will continue to prosecute Linux developers and users around the world.

End result: By 2008, SCO and their lawyers own 34% or the world's wealth. They buy IBM, Sun, SGI and Microsoft, fire the R&D teams, and start collecting "licensing fees" on their new-found patent portfolio. In 2012, the last independent business in the world sells to SCO to settle a $428,997,646,251US patent/copyright/trademark infringment suit. SCO now owns 84% of the world's wealth. In 2016, SCO test-detonates a nuclear weapon. France surrenders. In a series of hostile takeovers, SCO strongarms its way into the UN security council. By now most permanent UNSC member governments are subsidiaries of SCO. 2032: SCO disbands the UN, and renames it's constituent nations "branch offices". The head of SCO's official title is changed from "President and CEO" to "Emperor of Earth". Members of the board are granted heredetary feifdoms and titles. By 2045 the entire world's economy has reverted back to subsistence agriculture, since it is the only economic activity SCO doesn't have patents on. Starvation and economic stagnation take their toll, hundreds of millions of people starve, and a billion more die in wars that break out all over the earth. The entire world sinks into another dark age.

Still think it's harmless to let SCO win? :D

More images and mirrors

[kuwan]

My co-workers and I were the ones that took some of the pictures. You can find more of them here (with mirrors):

http://www.kuwan.net/scotesters/index.html

http://www.karlrees.com/sco/scotesters/index.html

http://www.normanfam.org/sco/scotesters/index.html

I should note that Ralph Yarrows, head of the Canopy group which owns 46% of SCO, was the one to organize the anti-protest and was the one who had the posters made.

Re:More images and mirrors

[dysprosia]

"I should note that Ralph Yarrows, head of the Canopy group which owns 46% of SCO, was the one to organize the anti-protest and was the one who had the posters made."

Very interesting, considering Canopy owns a Linux clustering company, which supports Linux's use and even has a Linux BIOS product!

Hmmm...interesting little tidbit from the article

[knewman_1971]

One of the comments made by the SCO reps was "Linux users will still be able to use Linux, it just won't be free. Linux users are just upset because they've been getting a free ride for so long and it's coming to an end".

Um, I think I have paid for every distro of Linux that I've used in the past 3 years. RedHat, Club Mandrake, Suse. I've either bought them from CrapUSA or paid for the direct from the company (in the case of Mandrake).

So how have I been getting a free ride? I've paid for an OS that I sometimes use.

The only freedom that I've had has been that which is like speech, not that which is like beer.

Re:When you think about it...

[dipipanone]

Some of these are just downright funny.

Really? Which ones did you think were funny? What did you think was funny about them?

Why is it that some people from the Linux camp are all about free speech... that is, when the free speech is not targeted against them.

Dunno, but thankfully a righteous supporter of free speech like yourself obviously won't object at all to my pointing out the possibility that you must be retarded if those posters were your idea of humorous?

This could have been solved much easier

[Stonent1]

SCO could have just originally said... "Here is the code that shouldn't be there" And give a month or two for kernel developers to produce code patches for 2.0.x, 2.2.x, 2.4.x and 2.5.x. Then say that users are legally required to migrate to the nearest patched kernel or perhaps use some kernel diffs on whatever version they are running. Then later go after any "linux company" that is still actively making available the code in question. But then again, as some marketing pundits will tell you "there's no such thing as bad publicity"

Re:This could have been solved much easier

[Stonent1]

Actually, now that I think about it, if the above situation would force kernel gurus to focus on reinventing that particular piece of code, someone might step forward and say... What if we did it this way...? And find a better way to do it. Worst case scenario, do the clean room trick were you have 2 people one that can see the code and one that can't and let the linux guy ask the nda guy generic questions about the code, so they can write it from scratch without explicitly seeing it. Who knows, it may even be something like a bit of code that enables MicroChannel support... When's the last time you ticked that box when compiling your kernel? 99% of us may not even be using it! Though IBM may... IIRC some of the RS/6000 systems had MCA slots before PCI was popular.

More images and mirrors

[kuwan]

My co-workers and I were the ones that took some of the pictures. You can find more of them here (with mirrors):

http://www.kuwan.net/scotesters/index.html

http://www.karlrees.com/sco/scotesters/index.html

http://www.normanfam.org/sco/scotesters/index.html

I should note that Ralph Yarrows, head of the Canopy group which owns 46% of SCO, was the one to organize the anti-protest and was the one who had the posters made.

Yup, Provo LUG were sucked in good and hard

[leonbrooks]

Copy of a post to LWN in answer to someone else who applauded the humour:

The Who's down with Other People's Intellectual Property sign is major chutzpah. The IP which TSG (not the original SCO, The SCO Group) is laying claim to is code written by IBM which belongs to IBM according to the terms of the AT&T agreement.

For an example of such code, turn to SMP. TSG's own SMP implementation sucks so badly that all of their licencees, past and present, have written and are using their own implementation instead. TSG is claiming ownership of those implementations.

The short story is that the IP in contention does not belong to TSG even if it was originally developed (by IBM) for use with SCO UNIX or UnixWare sources and is not a part of the BSD codebase or otherwise public domain or copyright (e.g. GPL) by others. To put it in the same terms that TSG are applying to IBM and Linux TSG are using barratry to steal the rights to code that they did not write and do not own.

It's worse than that. If you read what Chris Sontag said in the BYTE article, you will see that TSG are trying to leverage their barratry to steal ownership of every significant OS in the world.

You know how annoying parking meters are? In asserting that everything else descends at least in principle from their UNIX codebase, TSG are trying to install a meter on every CPU in the world, starting with the USA. They are trying to encumber everybody with a licence agreement, but instead of using Microsoft's attrition method, they're aiming for one fell swoop.

To show you how brazen this is, consider the same scenario in another industry. The Canopy Group buys Ford, then claims that since every production-line car in the world was derived in one way or another from Henry Ford's system. They start with General Motors but have an eye on an unexpectedly thriving kit-car industry. Is the analogy clear, and good enough?

While TSG employees might be fine and friendly to deal with, TSG management is trying to stage one of the biggest ripoffs in software history. If they succeed, it will undermine the livelihood implied in tens of thousands of Linux-related job in the USA and greatly slow Linux deployment worldwide. They even have the gall to hint about taxing the BSDs! If they fail, TSG and these guys' jobs, pensions etc will be a scorched memory.

This (to say nothing of much other lying and prevarication) makes those posters a lot less funny than you hope. Ha, ha, and all, but meanwhile they're trying to throw the IT world over a barrel.

And suddenly Boise' actions make sick sense. In the unlikely event of him winning this one, he'll be first in line for the next one, and the next, and the next... and if TSG's licence works out to something of the order of $100 a CPU a year, their income will easily exceed Microsoft's. Are you reading me, Bill?

The penny evidently hasn't yet dropped for Sun. The $100M they've already paid is a drop in the bucket compared with what TSG will get out of them if they win.

Re:Yup, Provo LUG were sucked in good and hard

[the gnat]

The Canopy Group buys Ford, then claims that since every production-line car in the world was derived in one way or another from Henry Ford's system. They start with General Motors but have an eye on an unexpectedly thriving kit-car industry. Is the analogy clear, and good enough?

Yes, and no. The problem is that SCO's case rests on the details of contracts that many of these companies signed in order to license the original code. You're entirely correct that SCO has done fuckall to develop these technologies they're claiming rights over, but if the contracts are as restrictive enough to give SCO that kind of power, they may have a case. That's a pretty pathetic justification for claiming theft of your IP, and it certainly doesn't leave the Linux community at fault, but this is irrelevant to contract law. SCO doesn't need rights to the code itself (although it does appear to be claiming those as well - I'm still confused), as long as the contracts stipulate that the licensor can control the distribution of associated technologies. (Which is itself doubtful, but we'll see.)

Anti-"anti-protest" Protest

[gibber]

I can understand that SCO employees feel defensive. If protesters set up a picket out side of HP (my employer) I'm sure I would feel likewise. What I don't appreciate is the apparent reaction of a proper subset of the SCO employees, the libelous and slanderous posters presented at this website.

Let us consider the following facts:

• Linux user cannot be characterized, by and large, as music or software pirates -- there is no precedent to label them as such any more than Microsoft Windows users
• Not paying for Linux is not a piracy issue, Linux is, by it intent and modus operandi free of licensed and proprietary code
• Presuming that IBM has placed illegitimate, license bearing code into the Linux source tree this does not necessarily reflect poorly on Linus Torvalds, Linux kernel developers, Linux users or the OpenSource community
• Linux usage != stupidity. (I can only assume that this was meant to be farsical. In the realm of debate the tactic of argumentum ad hominim, "argument against the man," (In this case: "You're stupid!") is generally abandoned in grade school.
• "Ya Vol!"[sic] (Intended, correct me if I'm wrong, to be "Jawoll!" a characterization of Nazi adherence to orders popularized by "Hogan's Heroes".) is a crude characiture of nazism not communism. But hey! To the culturally illiterate, what's the difference? Besides, IBM is an oligarchy.
• And... Well I could go on but that would be a full scale rant.

I'm reasonably certain that these posters (A) do not characterize all of the "anti-protesters" and (B) do not characterize most SCO workers. It does reflect poorly on SCO managment who allowed their employees to present the above image at the SCO Lindon facility. In all fairness I have no idea what the "anti-SCO" protesters were carrying. It may have been equivalently malevolent drivel. :-)

SCO should've taken the high road like Apple.

[pherris]

Years ago there was a protest at Apple headquarters over the ending of the Newton. What did Apple do? They served the protesters drinks (and I think sandwichs). Apple realized that trying to degrade the protesters would only reflect poorly on them. From the start SCO has decided to take the lowest road they could find. Is their "antiprotest" really that surprising to anyone?

Is it just me or are SCO's actions truly surreal? I mean is someone smoking crack over there?

IBM have the rights to derivations they make

[leonbrooks]

SCO doesn't need rights to the code itself (although it does appear to be claiming those as well - I'm still confused), as long as the contracts stipulate that the licensor can control the distribution of associated technologies. (Which is itself doubtful, but we'll see.)

TSG (as distinct from the original SCO, now called (IIRC) Tarantella) seems to be claiming just about everything, probably working on the idea that the worst outcome is the judge saying no. The common-language term for this is "trying it on".

As I read the contract docs, IBM unquestionably retains the rights to any derivatives they wrote, the only thing they can't distribute is the original source. In their last Exhibit, TSG are implicitly including those derivatives in "SOFTWARE PROGRAMS", trying to eliminate a distinction carefully drawn in the original contract.

Re:IBM have the rights to derivations they make

[minkwe]

The lawsuit is very clearly about the definition of derivative.

A = SysV
B = RCU, NUMA, JFS
C = AIX

IBM licenses A, independently develops B, combines A + B to produce C.

C is a derivative of A,
C is also a derivative of B.
B is not a derivative of A. Although TSG (The SCO Group) wants B to be a derivative of A. They are trying to reinterpret their contracts to imply that B is a derivative of A.

IBM has the right to do what it wants with B (including contributing it to Linux). If SCO got B through Project Monterey into Unixware, then of course there is going to be common code between Unixware and Linux.

I doubt verymuch if McBride, Sontag, or any of their attornies know enough about code to know what a derivative is. By their argument, all software written for Windows is a derivative of Windows(TM), and if you have a Windows(TM) License that prohibits distribution of derivatives (all Windows users) you can legally open-source your code!

Re:Don't jump to conclusions about the SCO people.

[the gnat]

The Software Communist sentiment comes from the continued attempts by certain members of the "Open Source Community" to lobby for laws which ban commercial software.

The ranting of a few delusional leaders in the FSF does not represent the opinion of the many professionals who use, develop, or promote Linux. Particularly not IBM or Linus (who is on record as saying that everyone should be able to choose whatever license they please for the software they write). I haven't even heard RMS weigh in on the SCO lawsuit, so why drag his distinctively weird opinions into this?

If Linux does the job for you, that's all it should take, in a free market, to want to adopt it, correct?

Yes. What's your point?

Quick Question?

[Mark19960]

Was RMS there? :D
Prolly not.

Please, its just a question. dont mod me a troll, or flamebait.

Black Parody

[The Famous Brett Wat]

Astounding. I thought that Tom Lehrer's idea of satire was pretty black, but those SCO anti-Linux posters are blacker than black. So black that they're just plain disturbing whether they are intended as parody or not. They almost make you laugh, but the stronger urge is to run away because you're pretty sure that they were designed by a dangerous psychotic who is probably closer than you think.

The obvious answer to this is to organise a pro-SCO demonstration, lauding all the worst aspects of that company. "Litigation is better than innovation," and so on. Just make it funny for goodness sake. That's the beauty of satire which the SCO posters miss.

letter to author of forbes "crunchies" article...

[Anonymous Coward]

To whom it may concern,

I am baffled by the article by Daniel Lyons which appeared on Forbes.com today (6-18-2003), entitled "What SCO Wants, SCO Gets". I take no issue with the facts presented therein, rather it is the mocking, unprofessional tone the author has chosen to employ which to me seems to belie your organization's reputation for journalistic integrity.

Specifically, I take issue with the author's knee-jerk stereotyping of Linux users as self-righteous religious fanatics. To wit, and I quote the author,

"...like many religious folk, the Linux-loving crunchies in the open-source movement are a) convinced of their own righteousness, and b) sure the whole world, including judges, will agree."

This statement is false and implies insult both to people with religious beliefs and to those who like or use Linux. Painting with such a broad brush is simply inaccurate and, frankly, sophomoric ("crunchies"?) and offensive to people for whom these matters are important.

Additionally, almost without exception, nearly every discussion (involving Linux advocates) of this SCO-IBM suit that I have participated in or read about has included genuine interest in the details of SCO's, as of yet, vague claims. This intense interest exists, not only because the veracity of these unexamined details determine the merit of the case, but also because those concerned will be able to identify who is responsible for improperly contributing code to Linux once SCO details just what code has been misappropriated. This is because such changes to Linux are logged and it will be easy to tell who contributed any offending code.

It is thus immediately apparent to anyone who has actually participated in such discussions that Daniel Lyons assertion that Linux users are simply "convinced of their own righteousness" is, again, presumptuous stereotyping.

It is my hope that in the future your writers will be held to a higher standard of accuracy and maturity.

Sincerely,

Linux is related to communism...

[towatatalko]

Linux is related to communism in the following way: Finland that Linus T. comes from was once bordering with the communism country. Well, not good enough?, hereâ(TM)s another one: the whole IP idea is a capitalist ditch to save their falling model of doing business. Anything that is out there that seems to threaten that model such âoeopen sourceâ, âoefree softwareâ, is going to be to their dislike and labeled as anti-property, anti-free trade, âoeunpatrioticâ, etc.

It is capitalist way of saying that intellectual property is part of a religion of ego-centered and selfish model that ought to predominate always and everywhere. Since Linux is about sharing code and software innovation it is a threat to that insanity. But they will defend it tooth and nail and SCO Groupâ(TM)s lawsuit against IBM is an example of it.

You sir, are very wrong.

[mosch]

I'd hire a SCO employee without hesitation, so long as they weren't the CEO or on the board of directors. The rest of the employees are just trying to do their jobs, in an economy where it's not easy to find a better job. If I were working for SCO when they started this mess, I'd still be working there and I'd be hoping that we might someday get a leader who recognizes that the economy is in shambles, and would try to fix it.

You guys only moderated me to 2 !!!

[timlewis_atlanta]

Seems like I was right. Hate to say "I told you so" but...

http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=64233&cid=5958 703

Apologies in advance

[alexburke]

Topic in #os: hey guyz, stop pickin on irix.
<SCO> w00t! i bought unix! im gonna b so rich!
<novell> /msg atnt haha. idiot.
<novell> whoops. was that out loud?
<atnt> rotfl
<ibm> lol
<SCO> why r u laffin at me?
<novell> dude, unix is so 10 years ago. linux is in now.
<SCO> wtf?
<SCO> hey guyz, i bought caldera, I have linux now.
<red_hat> haha, your linux sucks.
<novell> lol
<atnt> lol
<ibm> lol
<SCO> no wayz, i will sell more linux than u!
<ibm> your linux sucks, you should look at SuSE
<SuSE> Ja. Wir bilden gutes Linux fr IBM.
<SCO> can we do linux with you?
<SuSE> Ich bin nicht sicher...
<ibm> *cough*
<SuSE> Gut lassen Sie uns vereinigen.
* SuSE is now SuSE[UL]
* SCO is now caldera[UL]
<turbolinux> can we play?
<conectiva> we're bored... we'll go too.
<ibm> sure!
* turbolinux is now turbolinux[UL]
* conectiva is now conectiva[UL]
<ibm> redhat: you should join!
<SuSE[UL]> Ja! Wir sind vereinigtes Linux. Widerstand ist vergeblich.
<red_hat> haha. no.
<red_hat> lamers.
<ibm> what about you debian?
<debian> we'll discuss it and let you know in 5 years.
<caldera[UL]> no one wants my linux!
<turbolinux[UL]> i got owned.
<caldera[UL]> u all tricked me. linux is lame.
* caldera[UL] is now known as SCO
<SCO> i'm going back to unix.
<SGI> yeah! want to do unix with me?
<SCO> haha. no. lamer.
<novell> lol
<ibm> snap!
<SGI> :~(
<SCO> hey, u shut up. im gonna sue u ibm.
<ibm> wtf?
<SCO> yea, you stole all the good stuff from unix.
<red_hat> lol
<SuSE[UL]> heraus laut lachen
<ibm> lol
<SCO> shutup. i'm gonna email all your friends and tell them you suck.
<ibm> go ahead. baby.
<SCO> andandand... i revoke your unix! how do you like that?
<ibm> oh no, you didn't. AIX is forever.
<novell> actually, we still own unix, you can't do that.
<SCO> wtf? we bought it from u.
<novell> whoops. our bad.
<SCO> i own u. haha
<SCO> ibm: give me all your AIX now!
<ibm> whatever. lamer.
* ibm sets mode +b SCO!*@*
* SCO has been kicked from #os (own this.)

Software Government

[mabu]

Linux = Communism? I think not.. let's work this out...

Linux = Multiparty Democracy to Monarchy at times

Oracle, Sun = Monarchy

Unix = Anarchy with various flavors being multiparty democracies

Windows = Single Party State Authoritarian Regime which occasionally morphs into a Military Junta, and occasionally pretends to be communistic to improve public image

Re:When you think about it...

[dipipanone]

I hate SCO but there's no denying that what they did WAS hilarious.

Sorry, but I just don't get it. Which bit do you find hilarious? The amateurishly drawn, not at all funny signs, or the fact that the CEO of the company can direct his under-employed staff to go out and pretend to be participants in a demo against the company?

Perhaps it appeals to something about the American sense of humour that just slips we British by...

It's nice to see some spirit and support...

[qtp]

But this seems to be the wrong way to address a company, especially a company like SCO.

First, SCO doesn't care what you or I think about them. They want money.

More specifically, they want money for what they bought, as in "We have deep pockets and political connections. Show us the respect that we paid for."

Any protest of that type is unlikely to have the desired impact on SCO, the media or the outcome of the court case.

Second, if you think that there is something illegal happening at SCO, such as insider trading, buying and selling of stock by executives that is in opposition to to the interest of investors, lying on the quarterly and anuall reports, etc., then report that to the SEC. But be damned sure of your accusations.

Third, write well reasoned, insightful letters to the editor of major (business) news outlets. Be clear in your opinions and support all your claims with logical and ethical arguments. Business readers are not much swayed by pathos.

And be ready for the remote possibility that SCO may win the court case, despite having no valid claims. It's happened in the past, it will happen in the future, and it's just the way it sometimes goes. I know it sucks to be in on the side of right in a losing battle, but there's a lot of that going around right now.