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Microsoft Patenting IM Translation?
theodp writes "The USPTO just published Microsoft's patent application for a Method and system for translating instant messages, in which the software giant demonstrates how an English-speaking sender can type 'Hi' in an IM and it will be translated to 'Hola' for a Spanish-speaking recipient."
Now, that this is a patent grab exploiting a broken system, is fairly evident. However, two thoughts:
1. This patent is described as setting forth "A method and system translating instant messages between users who communicate in different languages"
Notice that it's only one method being patented; there's nothing stopping me from coming up with my own method. This is not a good patent, but there are worse (one-click shopping comes to mind).
2. This patent, if worded a bit differently, could set forth a way to transparently translate between the native languages of devices, not users, which would perhaps be a more interesting patent considering IPv6, pervasive intercommunication between devices, et cetera; did Microsoft drop the ball on this one?
I recall Ultima Online or some other MMPORG having translation capability while chatting.
This should be interesting.. I wonder how many international incidents will be caused by poor translation once we're used to assuming it works well.
..Jeff Keegan
seven syllables explain TiVo: kee gan dot org slash ti vo
User one types: "I use Linux, how about you?"
.....translater.....
User two's screen: "I am a communist with viral ideas towards intellectual property"
User one types: "Have you heard about Microsoft's monopoly and their under-handed business tactics?"
....translater....
User two's screen: "Have you heard about how Microsoft's masterful innovation in information technology has made it the industry leader?"
Or if Stallman coded such a utility/library:
User one types: "I want some pizza"
.....translater.....
User two's screen: "I (as in "self") want (as in "desire") some GNU\Pizza"
How does it translate "omg, LOL"? Or perhaps there's a teenager->English option?
I know we like to challenge all these Amazon patents that come down the pipe citing tons of prior art and how ridiculous the patent sounds...
This patent sounds like a strategic business move though and something that nobody else is doing...
--------
Free your mind.
Now we get to see how badly automatic translation can be butchered. Seriously though -- it's nice to see someone trying to bridge language gaps like this. Maybe this will create a demand for higher quality automatic translation.
My hovercraft is full of eels!
Heres the code!
Can't see it working to well, babelfish has a hard enough job dealing with... generally.. well written websites. How will it handle, "how u 2 day?"?
(Sorry for the bad code... its been a while...)
But the real question is: will it translate English to 1337 so I can talk to my little cousin?
Me: Haha, I just beat you at CS!
Translation: 0w|\|d j00! C$ p053r!
"Belief means not wanting to know what is true." [Nietzche, The Anti-Christ, 1889]
Linux user sends: Linux rocks!
..
MS' IM translation magic
..
Joe Lunchbucket gets: http://www.goatse.cx
Trolling is a art,
I wonder if ;) will get translated as "bite me".
Or what about the one sticking your tongue out? Isn't that VERY offensive in some cultures? Great...we're going to start WWIII because of this.
"He uses statistics as a drunken man uses lampposts...for support rather than illumination." - Andrew Lang
I have gotten messages sent to me in other languages, and using every wonderful translator that I could find, I still have had no idea what the messages are actually about. If the translating method Microsoft is planning is like all the others I have found then there's really no need to fret in my opinion, because they will not make the messagung any clearer. But if it is more advanced then that's a totally different situation...
I have a script that runs incoming messages via Babelfish, by using the domain address as the translation source language/country. Am I now breaking Microsoft's patent?
Translating isn't the same as replacing the verbatum text word-for-word. There are idiomatic and grammatical nuances to take into account.
Language1: May I buy you dinner?
Translation: Can I offer you money to eat you?
.sig
This is below par for Slashdot. I would have expected the headline to read "Microsoft patents IM" or "Microsoft patents translation".
How are we supposed to come up with knee-jerk reactions without reading the article if Slashdot doesn't help us?
Mmmm.. Donuts
Kopete has a plugin for this already in CVS. I've been using it for the past few days. Kopete is really comming along nicely.
Why is it so hot? Where am I going? What am I doing in this handbasket?
Translates to:
Okay, we finally admit that the point-n-click interface isn't the single most effective means of accomplishing every last task mankind could ever come up with.
So we hereby patent the 'pipe' command.
Translates to:
Screw you Jeff, I just patented the zero-click!
Quantum materiae materietur marmota monax si marmota monax materiam possit materiari?
IANAL. IAN American. And my employer strongly believes in patent protection for IP of any kind, including software, but this strikes me as being an example of totally the wrong kind of patent ever to be issued anywhere, under any circumstances to any organization. Doubly so to MSFT.
Still hoping for Gentle Treatment...
Is that not prior art?
Language translation is not exactly an innovative idea.
Anyone else care to list babblefish style plugins for their favorite IMs.
ACK
How are they going to translate all those mispelled words, Oh and those annoying shortening of words because people are too lazy to spell out the 4,5,6 letter word.
From the site:
What they type...
a/s/l por favor Hola, cómo va? Qué usted está usando? Desee al cyber? Satisfágame en los Juguetes R Nosotros en la cañería. Traeré un vino de la botella y dos condoms.
What your kids see...
a/s/l please Hi, how goes? What you are using? Wish when cyber? Meet in Toys R We in the pipe. I will bring a wine of bottle and two condoms.
Speak truth to power.
Nintendo, SEGA, et al. have been working on this for quite some time now, and have even started to commercialize it. It's one of the emerging trends in MMORPG game design will create interesting interactions and facilitate global play to a greater extent than is now.
Some early results can be seen in the GameCube/DreamCast title "Phantasy Star Online" where you can select from a menu of sentence patterns, subjects, objects, etc. We're trying to get it to the point where you can translate free text, without the awkward results that stuff like Babelfish, et al. yield, maybe augmented by a player-aided cache of words and phrases, with improved using in-game human feedback and machine learning.
I am really looking forward to the time where international players freely interact -- it will be an interesting sociology experiement to see how national and cultural means, norms and paradigms manifest themselves in a virtual world.
-- Samir Gupta, Ph. D. Head, New Technology Research Group, Nintendo Co. Ltd., Kyoto, Japan.
And the abstract of the one click patent is:
A method and system for placing an order to purchase an item via the Internet. The order is placed by a purchaser at a client system and received by a server system. The server system receives purchaser information including identification of the purchaser, payment information, and shipment information from the client system. The server system then assigns a client identifier to the client system and associates the assigned client identifier with the received purchaser information.
The important part is the CLAIMS, not the abstract. The first claim from the Microsoft translation patent:
1. A method for translating instant messages exchanged between two or more devices over a network by one or more users that communicate in different languages, the method comprising: establishing a user profile indicating at least one user language and one or more translation preferences of the one or more users; receiving a message as input composed by at least one of the users according to the user language; translating the message from the user language to at least one different language corresponding to the one or more translation preferences; and transmitting the message in translated form to at least one of the two or more devices.
This seems to cover pretty much all practical IM autotranslation schemes, if this claim is granted.
Translation between protocol suites is a very different problem and Microsoft and others already have plenty of IP there, which is why things are worded the way they are. I don't think anyone dropped the ball-- this is a very broad, desirable patent if granted.
Fire does that.
This patent was filed on December 28, 2001. Version 0.29.a of the fantastic GPL'd instant messenger Fire introduced "Automatic, inline foreign language translation" on December 12, 2001.
I would also imagine that the feature was in CVS and publically downloadable before that.
W
-------------------
This is my SIG. There are many like it, but this one is mine.
psxndc
The emacs religion: to be saved, control excess.
English : "The spirit is strong, but the flesh is weak"
Tranlator - English -> Russian
Russian : "The vodka is good, but the meat is rotten"
Automatic translation is a classic AI problem. Shouldn't there have to be a "working" prototype prior to issueing the patent??
Or, as Babelfish would say after a round trip into Japanese:
++ Say to Elrond "Hello.".
Elrond says "No.". Elrond gives you some lunch.
The man ...... will cease ..... to exist
We are(God it's hard doing Shatner in a slashdot post!)
I've been swashdotted -- Elmer Fudd
1836 -- The Patent Act of July 4, 1836 reestablished the examination system of 1790. Models were once again required by the Commissioner. "The model, not more than 12 inches square, should be neatly made, the name of the inventor should be printed or engraved upon, or affixed to it, in a durable manner."
It was left to the commissioner of patents on whether or not he wanted to request a model. This case absolutely screams to the model requirement. In my opinion, for technology patents certainly, a person should not be able to patent something that they have no model for.
Microsoft is probably the least able to produce this product. Translation software? Show us that you have this technology. (Yeah right.) You want to translate on the fly on text filled with abbreviations and slang?
Okay, show us that you can do this. Show us your model (AND make it no more than 12 inches square!). Given their record breaking incompetence, there is no way in God's green acres that Microsoft has this technology workable or will have it in the near future.
Maybe a commissioner of patents write in campaign would fix all of these software problems up?
The baby's fine -- please stop sending business cards.
as is the case with most computer patents, you have to -read- them to determine their fitness. the short description can't possibly hold all the pertinent details.
this pending patent covers their particular modular translation service, residing at a user-preference-designated network address (whether it be one device or a plurality of devices).
furthermore - the method states that a message comes from a sender, through the communication server directly to a recipient (no translation whatsoever to this point). the recipient's machine then automatically sends a translation request to the translation server specified in their stored preferences, and the result of that translation request is displayed.
the uniqueness of this system is that someone could set their preferences to point at a 3rd party translation service that perhaps gives better results than the stock german->japanese translation widget that MS might provide. the server passing along the traffic can remain willfully ignorant of any possible translation issues and keeps complexity of its logic down.
you may maintain this is a 'Bad Patent'(tm), and indeed babelfish is curiously close in function and it's use in procedure, to this patent.
in UO/PSO/etc the server handles translation without automatic user request.
therefore, those 'prior art' examples are not relevant.
remember, it's -procedure- and -method- that are patentable. not -functionality-.
you CAN'T patent 'translation' (and this patent isn't trying to). you CAN patent a non-obvious implimentation of it.
// "Can't clowns and pirates just -try- to get along?"
As food for thought in considering whether the patent system encourages or discourages innovation, try to estimate what the cost would be of accurately determining whether or not a small commercial application (e.g. ~50k lines of code) violates any patents.
Given that patents grant the patent holder the right to prevent anyone from not only selling infringing goods, but from making or using them as well, what small developer could hope to develop anything without paying patent license fees to someone, particularly when patents are as incremental as this one is!
It seems to me that the only reason the patent system continues in its current form is that patents aren't enforced most of the time. The exclusion rights that patents provide are only worth enforcing when the target is sufficiently wealthy that they have something you want to take, or sufficiently popular that they threaten your business. Nevertheless, I don't like the idea of granting this kind of power - it's a bit like setting low speed limits everywhere so police can stop anyone they need to.
Getting back to my original point, the patent system simply doesn't scale:
Looking forward 30 years, this creates a pretty dismal outlook for inventors without significant backing.
Incidentally, didn't Ultima Online have a method for translating in-game player chats to other languages? Would this make the cut as prior art?
Also, this patent doesn't seem to specify 'natural languages' (which would exclude, say, XML dialects), so wouldn't this include any sort of translation, such XSL transformation?
Hi, Ivan, that vaccuum cleaner you left is on the fritz again, it doesn't suck
English to Spanish....
Hi, Ivan, ese limpiador del vaccuum que usted dejó
está en el fritz otra vez, él no aspira.
Spanish back to English...
Hi, Ivan, that cleaner of the vaccuum that you left you are in the Fritz again, he does not aspire.
Close but not quite...
Microsoft will have it hands full.
Sean D.
"Hmm. I am to metaphor cheese as metaphor cheese is to transitive verb crackers!"
I've been using for a few years a fantastic multi-protocol IM client for Mac OS X called Fire.
It has had automatic translation capabilities in several languages for well over an year, and it works very well. Further more, Fire also supports AIM, ICQ, Jabber, MSN, Yahoo, IRC protocols.
I recall seeing a demonstration of such a system a year ago by a research group at MITRE Corporation that used exactly this kind of idea -- sending the message off to a translation server.
The following sentence is true. The preceding sentence was false.
This is the kind of patent all big computer companies file a lot of: trivial technology and lots of related prior art, but nobody else has patented exactly this thing. Why is Microsoft doing this? To be able to achieve cross-licensing with other companies that have big patent portfolios. The effect is to keep small competitors from being able to enter any of their markets (because they will be stepping on some of Microsoft's patents), and to be able to have leverage against open source projects.
I think this is ultimately only fixable legislatively. It's important that the EU do not pass software patents--by having at least one large market where open source software can be developed without this nonsense, people will keep creating software even for functionality that's patented in the US. But in the long run, we really need to get patent reform in the US.
The effects of these kinds of patents are so hostile to business and competition that sooner or later, legislators must see the light.
Si vous croyez qu'on peut tener un brevet pour traduction des MI, vous etes un plus gros connard que j'ai pensee.
Encoule toi, voleur!
oh brave new world, that has such people in it!
Secure computing is our focus-
we are as insecure as hell can be.
automatic windowsupdate-
we don't need anymore embarassments.
US legal system-
we gotta check which pocket it is in.
We are optimistic about china-
Bill will not be alive to see MS china turn a profit.
aids program africa-
You will be given 60 million $. 40 million will come
back to the US in inflated drug profits.
windows eula-
you've handed your ass to us on a gold plate.
xbox-
we gotta blow that 40 billion somewhere ya know.
pocket pc -
Its just happy to see you.
WindowsME-
We got that one done by monkeys. The ones who rivalled
Shakespeare. Our real engineers were trying to figure out
if their muffins were y2k compliant.
Microsoft Test Labs-
Have you rebooted your toaster today?
Hotmail-
We haven't gotten to the bottom yet. But we're getting there
Outlook Express-
Your gateway to the wonderful world of viruses.
Clippy-
The result of years of hard research at our lame labs.
Apple-
Our *real* research labs.
This isn't granted yet, so there's no saying it is a lock for MS to be awarded the patent.
I am sure my friends at IBM will be very interested in reviewing what MS has put down and whether they have already patented technology which does the same type of things through their products (Lotus Instant Messaging [ie. Sametime]).
IM and associated technologies certainly are not a "MS only zone" -- and IBM among others have already done a bunch with this type of thing, especially geared to the corporate space.
Should be interesting to see how it plays out.
TGM.
It takes an english sentance, translates it, back and forth a random number of times, between other random languages.
If you have AOL instant messenger. AIM "JavaAIMBot" this message:
babel Hi, Ivan, that vaccuum cleaner you left is on the fritz again, it doesn't suck
Some Sample Runs:
hello, it is not Ivan, this agent of pulizia of the vaccuum, than it still leaves it, in the Fritz, the inala
hello, not Ivan, that it has sucked means of this vaccuum of pulizia, like it is it you, in the Fritz other an hour, it on the left
hello, Ivan, this pulitore that the vaccuum you, to that it has left is not always in Fritz, he aspires
While you're there... type help to see what else it can do.
If you're interested: Its an open source project:
SF Page
Home Page
Source to this babel fish module
Scott
you are certainly right that it is the claims that matter. However, one thing should be noted about the claim. A claim that is phrased this way means that ALL the components listed have to be included for the patent to apply.
A method for translating instant messages exchanged between two or more devices over a network by one or more users that communicate in different languages, the method comprising: establishing a user profile indicating at least one user language and one or more translation preferences of the one or more users; receiving a message as input composed by at least one of the users according to the user language; translating the message from the user language to at least one different language corresponding to the one or more translation preferences; and transmitting the message in translated form to at least one of the two or more devices.
Thus if you only change one of these parts you have successfully circumvented the patent. Long claims like these ones may seem powerful, but in fact the opposite is true. Generally it is the short ones that have the biggest coverage.
One thing that comes to mind is that the message must be transmitted in translated form. If you transmit it first with a language tag and have the other user translate it then you are OK. And since that solution has now been discussed in a public forum it can never be patented.
Tor
They have/had a product, Lotus Translation Services for Sametime, that plugs into their Sametime IM system and does translation by interfacing to some separate tranlsation server, such as their own WebSphere Translation product. They even have a demo of it on the web.
There may be detail differences in the implementation that the Microsoft patent application describes, but in general this is nothing new.
Everybody with evidence of prior art, regardless of what country its in, should send the patent office a note pointing to the prior art. Just be nice with your language if you want to make an impact! Commissioner for Patents P.O. Box 1450 Alexandria, VA 22313-1450 Reference: U.S. Patent Application 20030125927 At least, it will let them know they're being watched and maybe get them to scratch their heads a bit. Lots of dander there you know :)
Banjo - The more I know about Windoze, the more I love *nix
With the incorrect "vaccuum" spelling, things get a bit messed up:
English-French-English:
Hello, Ivan, this pickling solution of vaccuum that you left is on fritz still, it does not suck.
English-Portugese-English:
Hi, Ivan, this liquid of cleanness that of vaccuum you left is in fritz another time, it does not suck.
However, with the correct spelling og "vacuum", something still gets lost in the translation, especially if you use more than one step:
English-French-German-English:
Good day, Iwan, this vacuum cleaner, which you left, is not still on Fritz, it sucks.
and my personal favorite,
English-German-French-English:
Hallo, is not again of Ivan, this vacuum cleaner which you left, on Fritz, sucks to him.
-- This sig for rent.
Back in the ICQ days someone msg'd me from french canada. I translated their speech using babelfish and my own back into french. I can belive this patent was granted, but, christ. It's blindingly obvious how to do it. The only problem is that there is no easily available 'translation libraries' to plug use that actualy work. Hrm, perhaps a good target for open source developers :)
That said, there is some prior art in William Gibson's Iduro where a conversation is translated back and forth between english and japanese. Sure, it was as audio, but really what's the diff?
autopr0n is like, down and stuff.
Je deteste Microsoft!
You see:
I love the innovation and security that I get only with fine Microsoft products!
Of course, if you had read the 40-page EULA for this translation software, you'd have known that this was going to happen.
--Rick "If it isn't broken, take it apart and find out why."
But it's alredy licensed by the MITRE corp. :-) http://www.mitre.org/news/releases/02/transclick08 _14_02.html, it's called Translingual Instant Messaging (TrIM).
I can see why someone, in the business world, would want to instantly communicate, with translation, to someone who does not speak the same language. Obviously machine translation isn't good enough to translate documents with legal percision, but it's good enough for thing like warning the datacenter manager in Japan that the London centre has lost power and only's got 5 minutes of battery backup. Or any other of the gazilling things one might want to say to a foreign-language speaker in the business world.
It's also decent for customer support. Your firm may not be big enough to have support staff fluent in 10 languages, but with automatically translated IMs, there's some possibility to do this kind of thing.
The fact that Exchange can act as an MS Messenger (or whatever it's called, I forgot) server, suggests to me that MS is thinking of IM as a business tool, and not as a "casual method for communication"
Ecce Europa - Web Design for Business
IBM's Lotus SameTime has been able to do this for years. I saw a working demonstration of it in 1999.
Since it is IBM, I am certain that every aspect is already patented. The MS patent may have been missed, because it is the absolutle worst possible method for doing translations. (Yeah, I read the "article"/patent application.)
The differentiating point:
the message is translated prior to delivery
I believe SameTime does the translation in the server. The advantage is that the dictionaries can be updated frequently, and the processing happens on a machine that can handle it. The disadvantage is that you must have a server, so this will not work with true P2P chat clients.
For P2P chat clients, the best scenario is to have the receiver translate the message. Why should the sender's PC do the work? The receiver can translate according to the receiver's dictionary, which can be changed by the receiver. So if you are in IT, "server" is translated to "central computer", and if you are in the food industry, "server" is translated to "waiter/waitress". (I love reading Google-translated technical documentation about installing software on waiters.) The receiver can also set abbreviations, so "computer", "server", and "desktop" all translate to "PC".
If having the receiver do the translation has not been patented, this post is prior art and is released into the public domain. Just to be certain it is legal, here is the abstract:
A method and system translating instant messages between users who communicate in different languages is presented. Two or more users engaged in an instant messaging session compose messages according to a source language or destination language. The source language corresponds to the preferred language of the user of the device that sends messages during the session, while the destination language corresponds to the preferred language of the user of a device that receives sent messages. During the session, devices send source language information with each message. A content translation module implemented as a computer-executable module (e.g., DLL, exe, so) utilizes the information contained in the user profile to translate messages from the source language to the destination language. The received message is translated before the message is displayed. Because the message is translated after delivery, the destination device translates the message according to its local dictionary.
I spend my life entertaining my brain.
An IRC client called Diplomat has done this at least since 1998. Looks like the site is gone now, but can still be found using the way back machine: http://web.archive.org/web/*/http://www.universe.c om
Do something we've done for hundreds of years - but do it on a computer!
The second era of software patents:
Do something we've done on computers for decades - but do it on the web!
The new era of software patents:
Do something we've done on the web for years - but do it on IM!
in 1997 we had a company that had a multiplayer
game with chat, and we could set it to run messages
through babelfish on the server (or whatever AltaVista's translation service was).
We even did translation twice for some games, The idea was to simulate international business negotiation, so to make the communication harder, we'd have messages translated from english to german to english, to simulate a scenario where a merger between an english and german company had taken place.
13. A system for providing real-time communication over a network between two or more devices to support multiple languages, the system comprising: at least one source device coupled to the network for transmitting a message composed according to a source language; a content translation module having instructions for translating the message into a destination language; and at least one destination device coupled to the network for receiving the message from the content translation module.
This seems to cover any IM system where the translation is done on the server and then re-transmitted to the recipient. It doesn't require that the system have profiles, preferences, etc.
Hopefully this claim will be thrown out as overly broad, but knowing the USPTO it won't be. I know from experience: my name is on a fairly broad patent covering "web-bug" images. Fortunately it's owned by IBM and they're not enforcing it. I got a nice bonus for filing it back in 1996 or so. :-)
Laura
Ewww, that's one place I did NOT want to boldly go... Thanks for the brain hemorrhage.
.unsigged
#!/bin/sh
#This program converts English to a different language
#Pipe shutdown announcements for it to keep the
#slow witted among users from saving their files.
#
#by: Travis Goodspeed, aka SHEENmaster
pig|wall
You can't judge a book by the way it wears its hair.
Patents must become increasingly absurd in order to make it clear to people that patenting ideas is not the best way to ensure that inventors receive credit for their innovations.
Perhaps instead we ought to have a public registry which new ideas may be entered into, and all prior art may also be seen and shown when it exists. Those with a truly novel concept would be clearly noted as such and those making use of their invention would voluntarily contribute to encourage the further development of science and progress.
Much like the Free Software movement, but as applied to all inventions.
Peace and love, y'all
Ayttm does this already...does the patent office not know about Google?
Help us build a better map!