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Harry Potter in German, not Czech
The official translation of Harry Potter and the Order of the Phoenix into German is scheduled to hit shelves on November 8. But at the
Harry auf deutsch
site
(here's Google's
English), a community has sprung up to perform a distributed translation. Every volunteer works on five pages, with the aid of a
Potter-specific dictionary,
and after turning in a German version, works on the prose to ensure it reads smoothly. In an unrelated effort, some schoolboys who did a Czech translation and posted it to a private website have been
sued by Albatros,
the Czech publishing house who will have the official translation out in February. Looks like Harry is crushing more than
the Hulk.
Oh, and please don't post spoilers, it's still too early :)
That the story is...er...altered to some degree by that fanbase translation? "Ouch stoßen mich nicht dort! Meine Esel bereits Hurts!" besagtes Harry. "OH- Harry kannte ich Sie immer war ein GANZ spezieller Junge!" geächzter Professor Dumbledore. "Hey geben das Weibchen mir etwas von diesem voldemort liebend!" squeeked Professor Flitwick. ;) Never trust the fans!
I mean a Hairy Artist who works in clay sure don't sound like a childrens story to me.
At least he uses open source web browsers...
Hey idiot, Harry Potter is not your work. How and when they choose to choose to release the translated work should be up the the publisher.
I know this varies greatly between languages but won't the reader notice the 5-page "boundries" where the translator changes.
Most of the time there is never a 100% "correct" translation from one language to another and relies on the translator to make the judgement. This is not a problem when it's one person doing the translation as they would more likely to be consistent throughout the book, but when you have multple people it's bound to be very tricky.
People advertise when they break the law now ?
Why is this a suprise? I honestly would expect a publisher to do the same for any other independent translations of titles if they were planning on releasing official translations, whether it be J.K. Rowling, Stephen King, or Hillary Clinton.
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Write your own book, make it freeware and be happy. Harry Potter is not freeware, it is protected by copyright laws and international contracts for localisation / translation. It is, in the least, stupid, to be advocating what is, indeed, piracy.
Mother is the best bet and don't let Satan draw you too fast.
The summary says they're making a 'second pass' over the translated book to improve the consistency and correct flaws in individual 5-page groups. And, the fact that they have a special 'dictionary' containing all the necessary translations will probably improve consistency a lot.
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... as an interesting side note, I believe the english Harry Potter books were the first english books to ever hit #1 on the German best seller lists before the German edition arrived.
You mean the publishing company that Rowling gave the right to translate and publish her work is suing someone who is releasing that is translating and publishing her work? How could they do that! Copyrights are evil! blah blah blah! [/slashbot impression]
Slashdotter are stupid and biased.
I can't see JK Rowling endorsing the project, at least not officially, but this speaks volumes of how committed the fans are to her stories, and if I were her, I'd be proud.
Babelfish translation:
I wonder how many fans will be excited about being sued? Even if J.K. has a full right to do so, suing your fanbase isn't the smartest or most polite thing to do. In fact, since they're obviously intelligent and industrious fans (they're translating for God's sake, how many times have you done that for a book you despised?)they're probably the last people you're going to get good press out of. Suing "schoolboys" is like the RIAA suing college students, do it enough and you piss everyone away in disgust.
Thanks for witty reference to The Hulk jamie. What I want to know is how can ANYONE think that the publisher asserting their rights in this situation is a bad thing?
The very foundation of much of the opensource movement, the GPL license is about respect for law. These people distributing the Harry Potter work are not respecting the law. We can't have opensource without these very same laws.
pre-rebuttal: the case of the network wide 'search engine' and the college students was hardly the only such one that /. has complained about, and that one was quickly withdrawn after it proved to be untenable. additionally, that they sued for a enormous amount of money has no bearing on what they might have actually won.
The Harry Potter publishers were naive to think this wouldn't happen.
Yes I read that part, I guess it depends on the language. English being Germanic should n't be too much of a problem I guess.
The problem I'm thinking of is more subtle in that if you imagine converting the english version into an audio book even a persons voice and their inflections effect the mood.
So if you have different people just reading out the english, although word-for-word accurate would end up not being much fun to listen too.
The person doing the second-pass will probably have to do quite a bit of editing. What might be more useful would be of they had more than one translation of that section, the would choose one which "gelled" the most and required the least editing.
I am surprised they let this happen
The thing is, exactly the same thing happened last time, when Book four was published.
At the time, (August 2000 BTW), some German fans started a distributed translation effort, as reported at the time in the Register
I would have thought, that the publishers would have learnt their lesson, and made sure that translations into the other languages where Harry Potter has a large fan base would be released on the same day as the english version, or failing that, not more than a month later.
Considering the huge volume of pre-orders that there where for book 5 in english, I think it was unreasonable to expect German fans to wait 3 months for the official translation, or Czech fans to wait 8.
Obviously some fans can read the book in english, but considering that the book is aimed at children, many will not, Instead they will ask their parents to read the book and give them the plot highlights. Is it not surprising that some of those adults are organising themselves to translate the book.
I am not condoning the what is happening, it is still a copyright violation, but it was entirely predictable, and IMHO, the publishers only have themselves to blame.
Oh God, I wish I could have made it through watching Titanic without understanding the dialogue.
What is a private website? One with now external links to it? An intranet? While the auther seems to be implying that since it was "private" nobody should care, wasn't it on the "public" internet?
Lasers Controlled Games!
I don't speak navy-blue text on grainy, dark background image.
Nature abhors a vacuum...and apparently, so do geeks.
Although copyright law will definitely come down on the publishers' side, I assume that these translators aren't doing all this hard work in order to thumb their nose at the rights holders. If there was already a definitive German/Czech/Crotobaltoslavonian translation available, then this activity would be unnecessary. However, as far as the official translators go, well, if they can't keep up with amateurs working for free, then they probably ought to be trying harder or reevaluating their processes. If you leave a vacuum, expect someone else to fill it.
If your comment title says 'Re: Foo', I'm not likely to read it.
It is an interesting project though, copyright issues aside. Wonder how good/quick a distributed translation would be?
Side note: Many professionals already use machine translation for a first step, but then there is the slow and careful process of crafting the book in a new language, adapting it to a local mindset, making it more than just a translation.
One typical example of the hard work of a translator is, of course, Tolkiens works.
Should the translator treat middle earth and the shire as *our* earth and england, or as a fantasy world?
In the first case, you want to keep references to english customs, manners and names. Otherwise you might want to adapt the characters and places to your local culture.
Now, Harry Potter is explicitly in england, so this is not such a problem, but you still want to check your cultural bearings.
A description of a typically normal (muggle) meal for example might be considered exotic (or gross) by a muslim, hindu or jew. Which is better: to adapt their menu so that the passage wont steal attention from the story, or keep it?
All opinions are my own - until criticized
First of all, let me just say that I've never seen the fascination with HArry Potter. I've read more than my fair share of fantasy novels, some when I was a kid, some in my twenties, but I've never rated the Harry Potter novels to be even in the same league as, say, either the Chronicles of Narnia, the Middle Earth novels, the Dune series or even the Shannara books. Don't ask me why, I just can't seem to find the magic (pun intended) that others do in JK Rowling's creations.
Having said that, I'm not blind to how big a phenomenon Harry Potter has become. JK Rowling herself has said that she's surprised that the plot of this latest book wasn't leaked before its launch, even though the story was a closely guarded secret. Less than a dozen people had read the book before it went into production and the printing lines and distribution centres were closely guarded too to stop any copies of the book getting out before the official launch.
How many copies and how big an exercise are we talking about?
Well, the new book, Harry Potter and the Order of the Pheonix, sold 1.7 million copies in Britain alone in its first week. The next best-selling hardback novel that week sold 6,500 copies. That isn't a small margin, it's a gulf.
Multiply that several times to come up with the number that were actually printed - 6.8 million for the original print run and 1.7 million for the second according to several sources. That's a lot of books. In fact, it's the biggest print run in history.
Now, if you had simultaneous launches in several languages then you'd have to have translations sorted beforehand (and worry even more about plot leakages), and have an even bigger print run to cope with all those foreign language versions.
Three words for you: never gonna happen.
"Accept that some days you are the pigeon, and some days you are the statue." - David Brent, Wernham Hogg
it's not "the right to use" it's "the right to fair use"
photocopying your favourite picture from a book to put on the wall is fair use
lithographing your favourite picture from a book to put on the cover of your book, isn't.
The reason there are no actual methodlogies described or proscribed is that "good" laws are worded such that it is left to a judge to interpret what is fair and what is not.
The aim is to avoid laws laws that say "you can use pictures from a book to decorate your domicile but not your published works" or "all electronics devices should have copy protection built in" because these tend to cause more trouble in the long run as cricumstances change.
For instance, in my county Nottingham, England, it is the law that every male of age must engage in weekly archery practice on pain of a fine. A law used by my friend who is a longbow enthusiast. (Some people get a bit cagey when you're out on the common with your longbow, shooting at trees).
There are places where the networks are not touching,and there are places where they are-Boeing's Lori Gunter
They might be missing something, though -- in French, at least, they don't do a straight translation. Rowling makes so many word-plays that a word-for-word translation wouldn't be nearly as enjoyable. The French translator is allowed the liberty of rearranging the games to work out properly in French. My absolute favorite is the Sorting Hat, translated to Le Choixpeau (sounds like "the hat," but words mean "choose-skin."). Also, Tom Riddle became Tom Elvis Jedusor, where Jedusor looks like "game of chance" or "game of spells" and the full name rearranges to Je Suis Voldemort. The houses of Poudlard become Gryffondor, Serpentard, Serdaigle, et Poufsouffle. In the collective translation, I'm sure we'll see some creative input on the word-plays -- but can they be consistent? I somewhat doubt it.
One thing the translators may be seeking to avoid is the over-(ab)use of this translator's power. A friend who had read the English version first threw her copy of Coupe de Feu across the room after one chapter toward the end. The translator had "corrected" something that Mme. Rowling wrote and reportedly has said in interviews that she wrote it intentionally. One surmises the twist may play a role in future books, though it hasn't thus far in Order of the Phoenix.
Would it be considered legal to download a translation if they had already purchased the english version?
We use that reasoning all the time when we 'translate' from our CD's to MP3 or OGG?
I'll wait until they translate it into the original Klingon.
Mod Karma -1: I sed bad wurds. If I cep my mouf shut, I wud be at riyses.
Chinese is the language spoken from BIRTH by the most people
Wow! When my nephew was born, he couldn't speak any languages at all. He's already two, and he's only just getting the hang of English. How come Chinese babies are all so brainy?
All I want is a secure system where it's easy to do anything I want. Is that too much to ask ~~ Randall Munroe
BERNE CONVENTION FOR THE PROTECTION OF LITERARY AND ARTISTIC WORKS (Paris Text 1971)
Article 8
Authors of literary and artistic works protected by this Convention shall enjoy the exclusive right of making and of authorizing the translation of their works throughout the term of protection of their rights in the original works.
You want to argue fair use protection? Fine, it's arguably fair use to make a translation of parts of the work for your own or strictly limited academic use. Making a full translation of the whole work with the explicit intent to distribute it, while the rights owner is trying to sell her own version, is blatant violation. Mealy mouthed lawyerese that each individual translator is protected by fair use is dissembling of the most pedantic kind. The intent to violate is clear.
Discuss.
If you were blocking sigs, you wouldn't have to read this.
If I remember correctly, the main difference is that the german translation is only available to the translators and not available to everybody. The same thing was done with HP 4.
Yes I read that part, I guess it depends on the language. English being Germanic should n't be too much of a problem I guess
Then like most guesswork you'd be wrong. For example a german poet might refer to a "tree". Now the meanings associated with trees in German culture are very different from those in British English culture. In German you would have associations with Germanic Mythology, the old folk tales collected by the Brothers Grimm, the modern german environmental movement. In english you'd probably think of things like Robin Hood and men in tights, "Hearts of Oak" and the british navy and various modern prejudices against anyone who cares about the environment (tree hugger). So that to a german or english speaker the word tree conjures up very different images. Thats why with even related languages (though German and English aren't as close as you probably think they are) it takes a skilled translator of literature to bring across what the original author possibly intended. You need to be well versed in the "culture" of both languages to translate effectively,
cheers and tschuess
Phil
No but, yeah but, no but...
In Harry Potter, you've got such a range of made-up terms, words which are invented by the author, some of which need to be given translations, that you can't expect individual translators working on five-page sections to be able to maintain any kind of consistency.
For example, in Order of the Phoenix, Rowling invents a plant with a latin-sounding name, Mimbulus mimbletonia. What should this be rendered as in German? In English, it has resonance with words like 'mumble', uses the common English surname/town suffix '-ton', and it even refers back to to the Rime of the Ancient Mariner's use of the word 'mimble'. Different translators will approach the task of selecting a German equivalent differently. Some will leave it as is, others will try to select a different latin name that conjures similar imagery in a German mind.
Then you have Rowling's love of writing vocal tics, speech impediments, and dialect (hagrid's speech, for example), which basically requires her to have the character's voice in her head as she transcribes how he speaks. A hundred different German translators can't be expected to have the same 'hagrid's voice' in their mind as they imagine him speaking German, so you'll effectively find his accent changing from page to page as different translators render his speech.
I really can't see this effort producing a half-decent translation job.
The Czech publisher Albatros posted the following comment on its website (http://www.albatros.cz/article.php?sid=528) and I've taken the liberty to translate it, and hope I won't get dinged as well: > Before you run amok and start cursing Albatros please read this! First of all: It would have been enough if the translators informed us of their intent, and we would have come to an agreement similar to that reached between Harry Potter's German publishers and its "unofficial translators." They were smarter and more fair, and went directly to the publisher first. In our opinion, Harry Potter can, in our opinion, exist in unofficial translations on the web, but of course Albatros is bound by a contract with Mrs. Rowling and cannot support such activities - even if it wanted to. We must act according to the law and report the theft of copyright that occurred. These (web) pages (with the translation) were not redirected by Albatros, but out of incomprehensible revenge on the authors of the illegal translation. We are sorry that they did not have the courage to contact us, and we continue to refuse to pursue the case. If readers would rather look forward to the illegal translation instead of the book, we will respect their decision. Further complaints can be addressed directly to Mrs. Rowling. This entire misunderstanding occurred thanks to her. Albatros
Copyright things like these always have two questions.
The first is "Is it illegal?" You bet. Copyright protects Harry Potter and translating it without permission violates both US and their countries' laws. It's as illegal as every fansub.
The second is "Is it wrong?" Well, my answer has two parts. The first part is "Hell." The second part is "No." Of course you must take what I'm going to say with a grain of salt, but amateurs, people with a love of the story, beating professionals, people who do the work for money, doesn't mean that the amateurs are evil people simply because no money has changed hands.
Czechs beating the professionals by eight months is EMBARRASSING. One might ask is if it's right to sue someone for embarrassing you. Illegal as the translations might be, Jamie's comment, which many here are taking issue with, is on the money.
Of course, the real reason I made this post was for the subject line. 10 geek points to anyone who can identify it w/o Google.
Harry steckte seinen Zauberstab rasch in seine Hose zurück und versuchte möglichst unschuldig dreinzublicken.
...or even the Shannara books.
You had already mentioned Middle Earth.
nt