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Teach An Old Athlon New Tricks
budn3kkid writes "Seems like Upgradeware have a new gadget out for those overclockers looking to upgrade their age old Athlon mobo (KT133, KT266 etc.) with a spanking new AMD Barton CPU. Also, saw an article at ol' Tom's about it right here as well."
After digging around at random in the desert, I found this latest gadget. It works fantastic. Baywatch looks crystl clear on my Commodore-64 now!
Thank you!
*sigh*
Only two comments posted, and already the link is showing a lovely error page.
Google cache still around though, grab it here.
link seems bad
...try this instead. The server isn't /.'d (yet), but the link to the page with more info about the XP-TMC is invalid. (None of the other product links on that page work, either...mighty fine website. :-P )
20 January 2017: the End of an Error.
The link is almost as reliable as my Athlon system.
This upgrade raises the concern of the choked bus. I mean, who really wants to run a 3000+ on a 133MHz system bus?
I do, and benchmarks have consistently shown that an increase in bandwidth for the Athlon rarely produces a substantial increase in speed (i.e. the recent speed "jumps" from AMD).
The Political Programmer
Its nice not to have to put a whole new rig together, but how useful is it? Eventually you're going to end up with a super-fast CPU that is dragged down by the rest of the rig.
A tradional alternate solution for a conventional method to solve a problem.. interesting
There are two kinds of egotists: 1) Those who admit it 2) The rest of us
"Now you don't need to paint the L3 bridges with a silver pen or cut the L3 bridges with a penknife on your Athlon XP processor jut in order to adjust multipliers. XP-TMC total multiplier controller can help you to do the job without any mod on your processor. The warranty of your processor can be kept alive"
So now stores that sell these CPUs now have even less to work with when determining whether John Smith walking into the store asking for a CPU exchange actually had a faulty CPU to begin with or was doing mad l33t overclocking in his basement last night.
Why is this a good thing? Someone that's willing to buy this device seems like they'd also be of the mindset to lie at the return counter if their CPU kills itself early after an Overclocking Session Gone Bad (TM).
The results of that? 1) The people working the front counters of the computer store hating their jobs due to arguing with customers about whether or not they tried overclocking their CPUs. 2) The prices for these CPUs going up due to the return/exchange rate on them. 3) Like in the case of some stores with Apex and other high-return brands, they just take a harder stance on people that want a straight exchange of the product.
Who wins here? The company selling the adaptor. No one else.
I get a Chinese (or maybe Korean) 404 page. In an Asian character set.
Because the chip rests on top of an adaptor, it would make the CPU sit higher. Wouldn't this present a problem with heatsinks? i.e. clamps that may use more force, or not able to reach the attachments.
So what kind of fans and heatsinks are compatible with this? Tom's made the point that the processor sits up higher, and that Upgradeware's heatsinks and fans must be used.
How reliable/good are these heatsinks and fans? And what other companies manufacture compatible heatsinks and fans?
The Political Programmer
poster must be new here
"After installing the XP-TMC, the processor sits a bit higher - in selecting your CPU cooler, note that the voltage mechanism only brings a limited amount of tolerance with it. Or, buy your adapter directly as a bundle with a suitable cooler. "
The error page is not in English, but Babelfish can help us out with that.
Law? Shows? Identical? Has the too many people deposits and withdraws the Web railroad platform. Line following? Does: * Presses re- trims presses? Or shortly after again? *? www.upgradeware.com head? Then examines you think? Looks for it? HTTP 403.9 - prohibitions deposits and withdrawals: Too many users? Receives? Stands Internet Information Services Technique? (Supplies the technique? Supports the person? Use) * Background: If the Web servo bustles about, also because? Many? Road traffic? Sends? Law? Manages your request? Fresh? * Other? Microsoft Support
sounds like most error messages... confusing in every way...
Solving an Old Problem Elegantly: Using the XP-TMC to Deal with the Slashdot Effect.
Apparently the guys at Upgradeware could use one of these
An Indian-American Hindu committed to non-violent thought/speech/action alarmed by the global explosion of radical Islam
I've had an Athalon box running 24/7 for over a year now. No problems at all.
Of course, it's running FreeBSD, so maybe your problems lie, ahem, elsewhere.
--
the strongest word is still the word "free"
I just built a dual Athlon MP 2400+ system. Too bad these CPU's don't have a barton core ;-( *sigh* Oh well. It's still fast and I love it ;-)
-- DuckWing
hehe. I just dont trust most of what they say, but this looks interesting...
"Computer games don't affect kids; I mean if Pac-Man affected us as kids, we'd all be running around in darkened rooms,
My browser filled in "That's the point I was making." from last time I made a /. post. I meant the subject to be "RTFA"
Microsoft Support
That's the only bit I could read. Informative though.
freakin' hilarious
you can do most(all) the stuff the adaptor does for the price of few small bits of wire.
the newer, better (and the better older too) mobos have this functionality already built in. with tbred and over you don't need to do any mods to the cpu at all to have it 'unlocked'(you needed the pen trick with athlon).
and from my experience, the odds are that the individual screwing the cpu while overclocking could have screwed it up even without overclocking, that is, the person did something horribly stupid in the first place.
you don't need to overclock to end up with a fried chip because you didn't have the heatsink on, backwards or somehow horribly wrong settings on it.
so nothing new under the sky here, this device doesn't do anything new, or skew the chip prices into any direction(it's sales probably being very very very very marginal and very very very very few of those will on purpose break their chip with it so that they still would manage to get it replaced).
your comment makes it look like everyone using this product would fry their chip, however the loser seems to be the motherboad manufacturers(lose of potential mobo upgrader), no-one else. the winners would be the geeks after few years when they can source semi working computer skeletons and are trying to take most out of them and only happen to have an athlon with wrong settings and for some reason are afraid of the wire-tricks or soldering.
world was created 5 seconds before this post as it is.
If you've got the money to go out and buy a new 2500+ or faster Athlon then you won't be breaking the bank if you spend a little bit extra and get a new, more suitable motherboard to go with it?
Sure, there are a very few number of people out there (and I mean maybe a handful) who have systems that for whatever reason can't handle a motherboard swapout but, apart for that tiny subset, this isn't worth the effort.
Why go to this much trouble and risk - possibly ruining a brand new CPU in the process - for a small bump in performance when you could swap both parts at once with less hassle and for greater gain?
That old CPU and motherboard doesn't have to go to waste either - find a cheap case for it, put in a minimal amount of memory (assuming you didn't buy some new RAM as part of your upgrade), a cheap NIC and an old hard drive (even a 250MB drive!) and you've got a nice little runner that'll act as a nice firewall/server/whatever. Let's face it, if you're the kind of guy that would upgrade a PC's CPU to squeeze out a few more clock cycles then you're the kind of guy who'll have those kinds of parts lying around doing nothing.
This may seem like a cheap upgrade option but if you fry that new CPU then it'll turn out to be a very expensive one.
"Accept that some days you are the pigeon, and some days you are the statue." - David Brent, Wernham Hogg
This is a perfect example of why IIS "friendly" error messages are generally a Bad Thing.
I hope they are being DDOS'd off the web again. That was funny back when it happened.
Most of my overclocking experience has shown me that it costs just about the same to go out and buy new parts. So then why in god's name would you bother buying something like this?
For one I attend lots of various LAN parties. I'm sure others who go will catch a similar situation if they have not.
Bob: "Hey Tom, Nice Box..."
Tom: "Thanks Bob... it's a stock AMD"
Bob: "Yeah, but did you see Vince's Water-cooled rig? I can't believe he got that 2100+ so high"
*Tom walks away in shame*
Because, you know, "access forbidden - too many users" is just so cryptic. I would never think to increase the capacity of the server or the max users setting on IIS. (Yes, I looked up the error code's meaning, which would normally appear on the English versions of the "friendly" error pages.) In addition, there's no such thing as a "friendly" IIS error page. You may be thinking of ASP, ASP.NET, or even IE, and the "friendly" pages are simply designed to not reveal your code to outsiders (in the case of ASP[.NET]). Learn something about your target before you bash it, even if it is a Microsoft product.
Haven't you heard? The latest craze is UNDER clocking. People with older Athlons are ahead of the curve.
Underclocking Becomes Latest Computer Craze
Thank you.
I spotted my error almost immediately after posting it, but thought better of pointing it out. I figured that anyone with any sort of self-esteem whatsoever wouldn't see the need to elevate themselves by pointing out my typo.
So what's the problem? Girls won't go out with you? Stuck with a shitty job? So pissed off at the world that your only recourse is to scan slashdot for spelling errors?
--
the strongest word is still the word "free"
"Learn something about your target before you bash it, even if it is a Microsoft product."
I wouldn't bother, life is too short, focus on things that will still be around in five years time.
I was just about to go out and buy a new 'stop-gap' motherboard so I could upgrade to the new Athlon CPUs. I paid about $140 for this mobo (Abit KT7-Raid it has built in raid) and I was expecting to last the whole Athlon cycle.
:)
I read about the adaptor on toms hardware, but I didn't know it also let you use slower FSB settings. This kicks ass!
Sorry for the sincerity, as opposed to the cynical vindictive that so characterizes discussion between intelligent people these days, it's just that I'm just very happy about this.
autopr0n is like, down and stuff.
Actually when I upgraded from my socket-7 mobo to my Abit Kt7 RAID my uptime in windows 98 went from about 12-24 hours to a solid week. I was amazed. The old k6 system crashed all the time. With win2k I routinely get uptimes of several weeks, and almost always the reason for the reboot is due something other then a whole crash (like my sound drivers or explorer or whatever will get 'weird').
And I've got cheap-ass ram in here to boot. I've been pretty impressed with the reliability so far.
I do wonder though if this adaptor will cause any problems. For one, the thermal sensor will no longer be in contact with the actual device, and for another the pin lengths will be longer. Could cause some problems...
autopr0n is like, down and stuff.
Not only that, but I've heard that deviant overclockers may have access to patented ERASER(TM) technology. This technology allows pencil marks to be erased from various surfaces. With ERASER(TM) speed-freak hooligans can remove any evidence of tampering with the electrical contacts on their AMD(TM) Athlon(TM) Processors(TM).
Clearly these things should be illegal under the DMCA. Claims that Erasers have significant other functions are all lies.
autopr0n is like, down and stuff.
Greetings,
I represent the CIAA (CPU Industry Association of America) and wish to inform you that you are to cease all overclocking immediately. As you may be aware, under the DMCA (Digital Millennium Clockcycles Act) when you purchase a CPU, you are merely purchasing silicon with a license to use it for X number of MHz. Exceeding this number is STEALING MHz from poor engineers.
Furthermore, multi-tasking OSes have been determined to be 'CPU piracy' becuase it allows multiple programs to share the CPU. As 'sharing' has been determined to mean 'stealing' you will have to have a seperate CPU for each process you wish to run concurrently.
Thank you, and please continue to buy our products or we will be forced to sue again.
Is that what passes for an old system these days? Damn, when I saw this at first I was hoping to squeeze a few more years out of my Slot-A Athlon-500.
Lost: Sig, white with black letters. No collar. Reward if found!
Sigh.. If I could just get IWill to release an updated BIOS for my KK266+R that supports the TBred/Barton, I'd do it in a second to upgrade my XP 1600+. A nice $85 TBred-B 2400+ would give a good boost to the old system. I suppose I could find an old 2000+ Palomino, but that doesn't seem quite worth the effort. Sure, I could buy a $100 motherboard and double my expenditure, then buy $150 of memory (nearly doubling again) to replace the 1GB of SDRAM on my old board, then spend two days reinstalling windows and all of my applications (figure $60 / hour * 16 hours), but that gets a bit expensive compared to a simple processor swap at about 30 minutes. All for lack of a processor in the lookup table in the BIOS. Damned IWill. /frank
And the worms ate into his brain.
The error message was in Chinese, not Japanese.
So I guess I'll still have to shell out $200+ to upgrade my Slot A to anything over 900Mhz... :(
Jaysyn
There is a war going on for your mind.
Then you'd better start studying MS products!
An Athlon XP 2600+ isn't a Barton core chip, it's a Thoroughbred "B" chip.
The Barton core chips are:
Barton 3200+ (2.250GHz, 512KB cache);
Barton 3000+ (2.167GHz, 512KB L2 cache);
Barton 2800+ (2.083GHz, 512KB L2 cache);
Barton 2500+ (1.833GHz, 512KB L2 cache).
The top Thorougbred core chips are:
Thoroughbred 2800+ (2.250GHz, 256KB L2 cache);
Thoroughbred 2700+ (2.167GHz, 256KB L2 cache);
Thoroughbred 2600+ (2.083GHz, 256KB L2 cache);
Thoroughbred 2400+ (2.000GHz, 256KB L2 cache).
Note the increased L2 cache size on the Barton, which AMD cite as the reason for the 200-300 point rise in their performance rating for those chips (eg, Barton 2.167 GHz = Thoroughbred 2.167GHz + 300). Obviously, the latest FSB bump introduced with the Barton family helps too.
In some situations a Thoroughbred 2800+ will outpace a Barton 3000+ because of it's greater clock speed but, in most cases, the Barton with its greater L2 cache will win out.
Anyhow, given this story is about "overclockers looking to upgrade their age old Athlon mobo (KT133, KT266 etc.) with a spanking new AMD Barton CPU", I thought it prudent to point out your incorrect assumption about the XP 2600+ chip.
In all likelyhood, you probably wouldn't need any sort of adapter to fit a Thoroughbred chip to most older Athlon motherboards - I know that I could swap the 1.2GHz CPU in my machine for a 2800+ with no hassle but wouldn't be able to do the same with a 3200+, or even a 2500+.
But if you're really going to skip the 2800+ for the 3000+ or 3200+, then you're paying 50 percent or 110 percent more for your CPU in the first place. And if you're doing that, then you might as well be buying a new motherboard.
"Accept that some days you are the pigeon, and some days you are the statue." - David Brent, Wernham Hogg
Why wouldn't the video card work? AGP 8x slots can still run AGP 4x cards, can't they?
...you can get a mobo that runs the latest CPUs.
The "whimpy" retail stock fan on my Athlon XP 2100+ (the last of the Palomino core series) looks like it sucks, but it keeps the processor, which runs as hot and draws as much power as a Athlon XP 3000+ barton core, very nicely cooled. It's running 27 C idle right now, and runs about 48 C at it's hottest. Not bad for a whimpy fan*.
* okay, so this AMD retail heatsink comes with a copper inlay and the fan runs at 5000 rpm
My point is that, instead of sending a HTML page (possibly in another language) when an HTTP error is generated, it would be better if the server simply returned the HTTP error, and let the browser decide how to present it to the user. This removes the language barrier.
It was perhaps unfair of me to present this as strictly an IIS problem, because it is also possible to present custom error messages in Apache (and probably other web servers as well). The reason IIS deserves bashing here, is that it's default behavior is to send custom error messages instead of standard HTTP error codes. Apache will send standard HTTP errors by default. In my opinion this is the correct behavior.
It's kinda kewl that this adapter might squeak out some more life for a kt133 system (since millions of computer bits are winding up in landfills or 'recycled' often dangerously in the 3rd world or whatnot. but otoh a new nf2 mb can be had for $100, how much does this thing cost? cause if it is $40 or so plus, I'd be temped to just get a new board and add the old board to my 'bone pile' or ebay it. granted I might have to buy new ram to ... but a new nf2 board would crush one of these adapters running on a kt133 board.
actually I am happy to see you, however that is in fact a banana in my pocket.
Although some may find the need to overclock their processors like they did back in the 90's, I don't see much need for it these days. Sure, you can get an extra 10% more speed or so, but most applications don't really need the speed boost that they once did. Plus you risk damaging your computer. Remember those Athlons have the heat potential of nuclear reactors. Fooling around with their seating and heat sinks may cost you. While you can still find older motherboards and processors to replace your system, it isn't worth the trouble of scouring your city or ebay for them. In the end, it's far easier to replace your chip and board than try to overclock.
Well, there's spam egg sausage and spam, that's not got much spam in it.
Go to babelfish, and paste in the URL where you get the error message (its here) . Choose Japanese to English and hit translate. Presto, you get the article (complete with pics even). Is this some kind of sinister tie up between upgradeware and altavista to draw traffic to them? Food for thought. And as an aside, I would like to know why that is happening, because I am unable to figure it out.
'Your computer is a "box"'.
Uh....no. A "box" is something else entirely and I have severe doubts that 90% of the guys posting here will ever see one in person. While we're at it, a "rig" is not a modified "box". A "rig" is a piece of equipment that same 90% of Slashdotters will have no real use for except self-pleasure. Well, I suppose a "rig" can be a computer after all.
is not simply having to fork out butt-loads of cash just to get a completely new system just for the sake of upgrading a new CPU that doesn't work for an older mobo.
Like myself being stuck with a MSI KT266Pro2 mobo, it couldn't even take a Thoroughbred-A core CPU, so this upgrade can be a plus if I just need a CPU upgrade without having to pay for another mobo upgrade.
Otherwise, it's painful to have to get a new motherboard every single time AMD and Intel attempt to out-do one another by releasing new CPUs with new cores that aren't compatible with older mobos.
Most people would be far better off using the money they spend on the mobo upgrade to get some other upgrades, like RAM or HDD. Then the rest of the system wouldn't be as bad as you said it'd be, would it?
BuDn3kkID
...I already patented the tradional alternate solution for a conventional method to solve a problem.
I used to but then I quit.
C'mon, I flunked English and I troll wayyy better than you.
Actualy, I was inspired by your post. Imagine...
My troll is the next story up, here. Although, I commend you on your performance of reaching 2nd post. Next time, troll the Correct(TM) words, as I did.
...for this price of this item, you can get a mobo that runs the latest CPUs and will still use SDRAM. They're out there. And even the slowest of DDR RAM (which is faster than SDRAM) is embarrasingly cheap. I've even seen deals where it was free.
I raised a very valid point about how babelfish was exhibiting strange behaviour. That is censorship.
Does this pass the "hammer" test?
Even if you're accepting the risk of ruining your hammer by overpounding it, and are willingly releasing the vendor from warranty obligations, you _are_ morally bankrupt, and are swindling all involved companies by not buying a heavier hammer to begin with. This is because you're violating the implied contract you made with them to run the hammer at the advertised pound rate.
I'll bet you're also the type who goes to the bathroom during TV commercials, which violates your contract to watch advertising which pays for TV programming. Hell, you're probably one of those scumbag Tivo users who fast-forwards through the commercials...
Do you have multiple workshops at home? You're probably connecting them all to one of those damned screwdrivers, instead of paying the local hardware store more for each tool!
How are companies supposed to survive with people like this around? We need more laws and enforcement to make sure people are using things they purchase only in ways that the manufacturers permit!!
I smell a troll.
I have no problem with your religion until you decide it's reason to deprive others of the truth.
If I'd have done that I'd probably have given links to KT133, KT266, AMD, Barton and Overclockers (I'd have given a link to www.overclockers.com for this one, go figure the rest :P)
--
Am I the only one who considers the "old" Athlon to be the "Athlon" (i.e. not the Athlon XP/MP)? Geez - I was all excited to maybe boost my 700Mhz proc a bit, but alas, no.
...still thinking about making a mini (albeit mostly useless) beowulf out of the four SPARCstations I have sitting on my shelf...
:)
Using Old Hardware and Loving It
They are. The solution is to not install them.
I installed them & they totally bombed the system each time, forcing a re-install of Windows. When they've not been installed, the system runs fine.
Get an AOpen board. The newer ones throttle the speed of the CPU and case fan based on the temp.
Life is not for the lazy.
This thing's being advertized as a solution to not void the warranty... Now, how many kt133 boards are still in warranty in the first place, and with a non-ZIF socket, you're likely to bend the hell out of the pins, so that'd void the warranty more than a pencil to L1 bridges ever would
So you spend about $250 on a processor and refuse to spend $50 on a motherboard to support it?
Weird...
Actually I've given upstaying at the absolute leading edge of the curve - even my games machines run fast enough with Athlon XP1800s in, there's little point in spending money for the extra kick.
Donte Alistair Anderson Roberts - hi son!
Karma: Chameleon
...Athlon teaches YOU!
After the Empire
------------------
You may like my a cappella music
Considering that you will be able to buy a 333 motherboard for $50 in a month, I don't see the point.
If I want more speed, I'll just buy an 2000 thoroughbred for my $50 Biostar and overclock it to 2500.
If you aren't part of the solution, there is good money to be made prolonging the problem
It says in its FAQ that you still have to have the CPU's bridges unlocked for this adapter to work? I just don't understand what this thing is meant to do, their site is hopeless at explaining things.
But, what's this? Am I reading this correctly?
It "Support['s] QuantiSpeed Architecture"?
Wow! That's amazing! Maybe it does look interesting after all...
"Support 3DNow! Professional Technology (72 instructions, full SSE compatibility)"
Hmmm, it's a good thing 3DNow! is supported, cause my Athlon has 3DNow! too!
"Support Double Data Rate (DDR)"
Would you believe it? *I* have a DDR system! It's like they built this product just for me! I gotta get one of these right away!