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Is Latex Still Worth Learning?
Bocaj asks: "I have start back to college and have to write a few technical papers. Right now it's mostly physics, but I'm a CS major and there will be many more papers to come. I've tried all of the office suites with little luck in getting them to format complex formulas correctly. I'm trying to learn Latex, but I am wondering if I should. Is Latex still the defacto standard for this kind of stuff? What about SGML or XML? What is everyone else using?"
Physics still uses LaTeX quite a bit; for astronomy, it's the standard. Once you get used to it, you will find that it's much easier to use, and especially for formatting data -- you can reformat a LaTeX data table with sed&awk in seconds.
If you look around, many of the journals accept the LaTeX source -- I know that ApJ does, and I believe APS does. But you'll also notice that submissions to the NSF can be done in DVI format, as well. Many people still use it, and many still require it.
But, hey, if you don't like it, use something else and then convert it to LaTeX later. But I guarantee that if you start using it, you'll love it. I can't stand WYSIWIG word processors anymore, mainly because I can't be guaranteed of reproducible results.
Anyone know if MathCad is still around?
I remember using it to write a few technical papers/proofs. The student edition was very affordable and it would format the equations and to the calculations which was nice.
Just an idea....
One should not theorize before one has data. -Sherlock Holmes-
Haven't you seen The Matrix? Of course latex is still popular!
.. You meant LaTeX?
Oohh!
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Seriously, I've been using LaTeX for papers for a long time, and have yet to find a format that is as easy to use (all you need is a text editor, files are in ASCII, etc.) and that produces professionally typeset output. However, I believe the real question is: does it fit your needs? If so, then it is worth learning.
Karma: Marginal (mostly due to the border around the website)
Some people will tell you that sheep gut will do the trick, but doctors advise that only latex based products can keep out desease as well as provide effective contraceptive protection. Whichever you chose, remember to use it with a water-based lubricant.
At work, we use latex all the time for its ability to typeset the mathematical formulas, as well as its ability to keep track of the references for us. An added bonus is the ability to set up your own formatting commands, and have it make an index for you.
I also personally use it at home, for the ability to define commands and environments, and the ease of rearranging content. (I keep everything in relatively small files, and include those to build up the document I want. Very convenient to rearrange by just changing where the include command is.)
One thing I have to say makes it a lot more worth it at home (I use OS X there) is the application TeXShop, which makes typesetting and viewing the output much easier. I'd recommend using this (or an equivelant program on other platforms) to make the paper creation process go much easier.
Learn LaTeX for papers and noweb for literate programming (it is basically LaTeX with two added tags).
It is because of expectations like this that I require graduate and undergraduate students write up assignments in LaTeX for my scientific computing course.
Curmudgeon Gamer: Not happy
LaTeX actually has quite a low learning curve, for the usual applications. I've gotten by for ten years with nothing but the first Lamport book and the occasional google search.
You will definitely find yourself typing much less boilerplate than with an SGML descendant. I don't know of other plain-text formats, which to my mind is crucial.
Also, the huge number of tools for working with LaTeX, DVI, and PostScript files means there's virtually always a solution to your current problem.
TeX and LaTeX do have some disadvantages for the serious typesetting hobbyist, but for writing academic papers, I firmly believe that there is absolutely no substitute.
If you want the power of Latex but don't want to have the hassle of learning to write raw Latex, then you could always go for a GUI wrapper around it. Lyx is probably the best for Latex (and I would hate to go and use anything else for generating large cross-referenced documents), but if you are also interested in generating TeX then TeXmacs may well fill the bill.
The only Good System is a Sound System
/joeyo
2^5
LaTeX is still the only way (note i'm not saying "good") to create PDF documents under UNIX that look the same EVERY time..
I try to use it on all projects in which I need to create badges and PDF forms.... Definately worth the learn.... Although the learning curve is worse than linux.
ChiefArcher
/joeyo
2^5
If you have a draft on paper and want to make a clean copy, then Latex rocks.
Otherwise (if you don't have it done on paper), forget it!
Having been forced to use MS Word to produce a REALLY long document (800 pages, with very complex structure) I can say that there is STILL not a reasonable replacement for the document structuring capabilites of LaTeX if you only want printed output. The mathematical typesetting abilities are the icing on the cake.
Then you have no clue about the purpose of LaTeX, XML, and SGML. That is ok, I can enlighten you :)
LaTeX is a set of macros for TeX. TeX compiles to DVI, TeX input file should produce the same DVI file regardless of which implementation of TeX is used to produce it. When you write something in TeX you know how it will look in the resulting DVI file. DVI is most closely related to PostScript and PDF; however, it is not a programming language like PostScript and only contains positioning and formatting information. DVI stands for "DeVice Independant".
SGML and children (XML and HTML) are structured markup langauges. These are simply designed to store information in a human readable fashion. HTML is a slightly different format which contains formatting but no positioning information. To define positioning information one must apply Cascading StyleSheets (CSS). CSS adds the ability to format and position the text in said markup languages; however, CSS is device dependant.. the result will format/position differently depending on the device/medium on which it is presented.
Thus, if you wish to have your paper look the same regardless of the device it is displayed on; such as for a book, magazine, etc.. then DVI, PDF, or a subset of PostScript (some features are device dependant) will be perfect. If you're looking to display this information across a wide range of machines and faciliting accessibility features such as those used by the blind or the deaf, XML/HTML would be preferrable.
One other mentionable is that the LaTeX macros for TeX really speed and facilitate the process of writing books and research papers by requiring the creation of chapters, sections, and paragraphs. BibTeX will aid in automatically creating a bibligraphy, and LaTeX can automatically create your Table of Contents. Additionally, LaTeX can be easily converted to HTML.
For mathematics typesetting, I'm not sure LaTex/TeX can be beat. For large documents, it probably cannot be beat. LaTeX plus RCS/CVS and Make is truly awesome. Add gnuplot for graphs, GIMP for images, and you've got one hell of an Open Source solution for blowing away your academic buddies.
I also used to do resumes with LaTeX, which made for a distinctive look. However, once I got StarOffice, I started using it for resumes. StarOffice/OpenOffice.org does just fine, although it isn't quite possible to replicate the look of LaTeX output.
You should also ask around about Docbook, but I've never used it. Docbook, being XML-based, might be useful as a basis for web page output in addition to type-set output.
The best part about all this, is that it can all be done without Microsoft Office!!!
Healthcare article at Kuro5hin
There are many nice things about Latex, but here are some downsides.
I recently had the experience of submitting a paper (bioinformatics) written with Latex to one conference, having it get rejected, and then having it get accepted to another conference. The first conference didn't have a style file I could use, and I had to go through a bazillion hoops and custom commands, packages and settings to get Latex to produce something acceptable. It was really painful to get Latex to then produce something acceptable for the second, since merely including a different style file didn't actually do what I needed.
Verdict: use Latex only if the conference or journal provides you with a style file, and you think you'll need to make ZERO formatting changes to the source of your paper.
Another painful moment about Latex is that it only does the basics well. For example, it's easy to create a table, and it's relatively easy (if crude) to create a two-column document. But it's difficult to get Latex to place that table into just one column of your two-column document, and it's a complete hack if you want to place it intellegently so that there aren't huge chunks of unnecessary whitespace due to how pages and sections break.
If the stuff you write will ever end up on paper, you'll end up having to learn TeX or LaTeX whether or not you write your documents in it, because the only way to get high-quality printed output from SGML or XML is through TeX. (Or through proprietary packages with TeX embedded in them.)
You could try LyX (www.lyx.org) as a front end to LaTeX. Or try the venerable Lotus Word Pro(LWP) the formula tool was awsome!, I used LWP to write the reports for my Junior and Sophmore Labs till senior lab came along and required LaTeX, and I could run circles around all the other punks tring to make do with MS Word's formula tool(bleah!).
--Im an oven mitt, not an engineer! (SLArbys Radio Commercial)
For the technical writer, who plans on publishing conference papers or building large professional documents, such as a dissertation, there is no substitute for LaTeX. It is not a word processor or mark-up language but rather a true professional typesetting package. There really is no alternative (that you can afford).
Given that you're a CS major, you might be interested in looking at my LaTeX source code for a conference paper and my dissertation. Because LaTeX is so much like a programming language, I created a package containing subdirectories with the class file, images, and source code and perform the build using a Makefile. If you can code and you're familiar with Unix, it is a must have. To build the document, simply type make preview in the base directory. A word of caution -- don't even bother downloading this if you run Windows. It runs like a peach in all Unices and MacOS provided pdfLaTeX is installed.
Michael.
Linux : Mac
LaTeX is more readable.
LaTeX is already a layout language.
LaTeX doesn't need a backend to remind it it is a layout language.
Unless of course you'd like to create an application and hand that in instead of a report.
The message on the other side of this sig is false.
For physics publications, see the following: REVTex4
Logic is not Divine.
If you're a CS major you should learn TeX regardless of whether you're going to use it in a paper or not. It's open-source and one of the few major pieces of software that is for all intents and purposes bug-free. It's part of the CS canon, and you should learn it and read the source for that reason alone.
I just finished writing two lengthy term papers in LaTeX, and my first two LaTeX documents ever. I read one good tutorial and was off and running. Sure from time to time I had to google around for a snippet of code to do one thing or another, but really 90% of even most technical articles is text. Typesetting math formulas is a breeze. Tables and figures are a little tricky, but nothing new if you're familiar with html. Just go ahead and learn it, once you do you'll never turn back.
I almost marked this down as trolling flamebiat, but then got bored and figured, okay, I'll bite.
This is pure uninformed drivel. TeX is an extraordinarily powerful typesetting language. Not "page processing," but complete typesetting. Think books, not webpages.
Okay, now that is a good troll. I needed the laugh, thanks!
By taking the same content, and changing the package name ("style sheet" for those whose world ends at the edge of the web browser), I get a journal article instead of a book. Or a set of overhead slides instead of a book. Or <whatever> instead of a book.
And they all still suck when compared to LaTeX.
I don't know what flavor crack you have to smoke to say that it's "reaching end of life." I haven't yet found a document-related problem that TeX/LaTeX can't solve, but I've found plenty that make HTML and whatnot just curl up in a whimpering ball. And every time I print a document using LaTeX, my colleagues look at it and say, "DAMN, now I understand why you think Word bites... this is {gorgeous,simple,amazing,powerful}..."
You cannot apply a technological solution to a sociological problem. (Edwards' Law)
I use Latex for writting simple business correspondence. It is really fast and simple. Edit a simple text file, view with xdvi, and print. No screwing around with fonts, spacing, layout, or how it looks once printed. Everything is done automatically, and *correctly*. I could write and print a small letter with Latex before your msword even has a chance to start up.
-- Don't Tase me, bro!
I first read this as "is latex still worth wearing?"
I haven't used it for a long, detailed paper yet, though.
Check out MathType, from Design Science. If you've used the equation editor in MS Word, you've used a VERY stripped down version of this. They have a couple of different products, one of which is 100% free, which generates LaTex. Check them out at http://www.mathtype.com. I like it, and, once you set up (or learn) the keyboard shortcuts, you can bang out equations with little to no effort, and not have to write a line of Tex or LaTex.
Michael C. Hollinger
I used LaTeX for my university dissertation, and I needed to know how to insert pictures into the document....
Lets just say that you don`t want to Google for "+latex +pictures"
Well, maybe you do, I dunno.
CJC
While I still grapple with language idiosyncracies of LaTeX from time to time, the reason I keep coming back is that it produces the best quality output for mathematics-laden documents.
WYSIWYG systems I've hated, especially when it comes time to learn yet another gui-based equation editor with yet another set of key mappings that is not like the default emacs set I have hardwired into my brain from writing code. After you learn a few of the basics in LaTeX, like $$ \int_0^\infty \alpha_i(x) dx = 5 $$ will produce a definite integral from 0 to infinity of greek alpha with an "i" subscript there's no going back.
Besides being free (speech & beer), I have LaTeX source files from 17 years ago that still produces nice looking documents on todays computers even after changing hardware, OSes, etc. There were popular word processing systems available back then were such files would be next to worthless.
That kind of timelessness in the age of planned product upgrades and binary proprietary formats impresses me.
If you want to do version control or searching of document, then having its native format in ASCII text permits the use of CVS and grep and doesn't obligate you to buy some product to see your document.
For the future, I'd like to see something like DocBook takeoff, but it's just not there yet, AFAICT.
When someone gets a MathML parser to render as nicely as DEK's code, then I'll consider moving from LaTeX.
"Provided by the management for your protection."
As for previous comments saying that LaTeX is not extensible and that the formatting and content are not separate, that is bunk. You can write your own macros, people have written image drawing programs (for diagram generation) in LaTeX, and anything else imaginable. The formatting is done for you 99%. You just specify where paragraphs, sections, whatever start, and LaTeX takes care of the rest.
The only capacity in which SGML or XML (including MathML) is used to publish scientific content (i.e., containing lots of equations and document structions such as sections, theorems, proofs, etc.) is to first write the LaTeX, then to use latex2html (or a similar program). Seriously, it is totally impractical to write MathML yourself. take a look at some sample code if you want. It is designed to be output by a computer program such as LaTeX.
The learning curve on LaTeX is pretty low. Just google around for stuff, and it will be easy to find what you are looking for (usually). Start with the following references (there is *no* need to ever buy a book on LaTeX):
- Text Processing using LaTeX
- Help on LaTeX
- The Comprehensive LaTeX Symbol List
but google is your best bet. I usually just type "latexFor a Windows mostly WYSIWIG LaTeX front-end, check out Scientific Word from MacKichan; you can insert raw LaTeX, or you can ignore the LaTeX and just treat it as a really math-capable word processor. (And as a word processor, almost everything can be done from the keyboard, so its much quicker to write math than the Word equation editor). It's a cool program.
I am a CS student and for my math courses everyone prefers latex over mathml and xml documents . If some one doesnt know what latex is you can send them a nicely generated pdf , dvi , or even html document . Latex is a very powerfull type setting language and is the type setting language of choice for most math people I meet. I use LaTeX alot because I have a disability where it is very hard for me to write so I actually take my notes in LaTeX . When you get rite down to it , LaTeX isnt that hard to learn anyways , spend an afternoon with one of the good LaTeX books. I recomend LaTeX: A Document Preparation System</a>[amazon.com]
If you make a Microsoft Word Template, then you can get the same uniformity and simplicity that LateX offers when you write new Microsoft Word documents for all the papers.
Also, there is a Formula Tool available in Microsoft Word, I think you need to go into some Menu and add the Tool. It isnt started by default. Using that tool, it is as easy to write formulae as is writing them on paper. Maybe even more easier.
I have found a solution to Riemann's Hypothesis, but have run out of spac
There's always another way; I produce PDF files using PDFLib. They most definitely look the same every time.
I work as a org which publishes quite a bit of things and we use latex as a back-end typesteer and PDF creation system from all kinds of input.
:)
For instance, our invoicing system produces a large latex file from a database and then uses Tex to crreate the invoices. I also did a long report by using an XSL stylesheet (wchi I could send you) to convert some XML stuff into Latex. This rocks. The first thing my boss said when she pages through the document was "This look eally professional" Latex output really just looks more pleasing to the eye than Word or some other typesetting things.
I also used this XML markup typesetting thing to mark up my GF's PhD thesis and the result was actually quite awesome. There some tweaking to be done but not more than normal. And none of the Microsoft-Worde-screws-you-with-image-placement shit that all her friends had to cope with. (This these was in Immunology so had loads of Microscope slides). In the end we did all the microscope stuff on glossy paper and rest on normal paper anyways so the image palcement, which IS sometimes a pain, did not matter too much. Btw, what the hell is it with Word that places an image so that only the little left part of the corner is actually visible on a page. Why on earth is this the normal, default behaviour??!!
That said, recently I have moved our system to XSL, in particular, FOP. There are two reasons for this
First, Latex sucks with some international characters. We have a system where people can apply for membership on the web and they use all kinds of weirdo character which sort of necessitates unicode. Every once in a while my invoice thingie croaks because some member from some country in Norhern Europe has a funny accent or something on his name and the end stages dies.
Secondly, the, the difference in meta-characters is a pain to use, if someone uses a / in his company name I have to worry. and so forth. This is easier to handle in XML/HTML. The whole business of metacaharacters and the impedance mismatch this causes between stages of a publishing pipeline can be a serious headache. Our system produces text by exporting XML and using the XML to produce Tex. The meaning of a or a \ in an input string can get prety damn confusing.
The third reason is more compelling. Our secretarial staff sometimes needs to update the templates from which we generate EMails. It is mucho easier to do this with a simple subset of HTML (which is what we use) because all of them know the syntax sort of and the other technical guy can help them much easier. I wrote a Java program to process this into XSL:FO and pump it all through FOP while looking up the embedded fields in Lotus Notes. THis works just beautiful, nor problems so far, and quite frankly, the amount of code to manipulate XML in JAva or any other language is muuuuuch more than that to manipulate Tex. A lot of the common metacharacter issues are automatically taken care of, for instance.
Lastly, if you are doing complicated things such as this, Latex's philosophy of "leave the page formatting to me" jsut does not cut it. You can get it right, but it is extremely sensitive to small changes that breaks everything. XSL:FO handles this much better.
I might also add that FOP uses the latex typesetting algorithm. Other XSL:FO rendering tools, RenderX in particular, does not and the output from FOP simply looks better. The output from RenderX looks awful.
I hope that helps. Yes, it is being used in a business setting to produce all kinds of things from papers to invoices with tables and letterheads and whatnot. I might also add that we use these tools because we a a very cost-conscious nonprofit and use Linux for all our servers where a script that happesn to be a Lotus script program outputs fields into a xML file that is used by a PYthon program to convert the output to Tex and then uses Tex to format simply works
There is also a XML syntax frontend for Latex AFAIK. If you are really interested I can only reco
The dangers of excessive individualism are nothing compared to the oppressiveness of excessive collectivism
Admittedly, bibtex (Latex's bibliography subsystem) is a bitch at first, but there is an extra package called jurabib, originally designed for supporting the awkward quoting/bib style of German law texts, but later expanded to handle about any style on the planet, as far as I can see.
Latex is old and weird, and it has its quirks, but it works best for me.
DocBook is fine for technical documentation, which it was designed for, but doesn't really have the flexibility that TeX/LaTeX do -- and at least until Conglomerate, or some other graphical XML editor becomes usable on Linux, editing DocBook XML is a painful experience. The sheer complexity of the DocBook DTD makes it almost as hard to work with as most full-blown programming languages.
Libtool and Autoconf. What are the two best ways to take the "open" out of Open Source?
Care to explain that one?
I work for a company that works closely with mathematics reaserchers at the University of Pittsburgh. Everything we get from them is LaTeX, if that serves as any indication. Any research I've read that needs to express anything in mathematcal terms was written with LaTeX.
Also, Lyx is an editor and something of a front-end to LaTeX that automates much of what a common knowlege of LaTeX would accomplish (I suspect - I don't know LaTeX), and can call out to external DVI conversion tools that export to ps, pdf, html, text, etc. I use it to write just about everything at this point. The only problem so far has been converting to MS-Word for the business guys.
-Nick
Yes, the American Physical Society accepts LaTeX files submitted electronically. It is pretty big news that they are now about to accept Microsoft Word format as well. (Note that they just began accepting Word format this June - although PRL (the rapid communication journal) has been accepting since all of July 2002!)
_ _______
The learning curve to latex is steep but not really long. Whatever you are thinking about doing in LaTeX has probably already been done, so try to get a template if you can and just begin playing around with it - this is the best advice I can give you.
I used word until I began my thesis. Then I learned latex, beginning with a sample thesis file from my friend. (But most universities have sample files on file somewhere if you ask around.) At the end I handed it in to be checked and the graduate division found about 4 or 5 formatting problems. The nice lady who broke the news to me was quite used to pitched battles with M$ word users unwilling to go back and even try to get word to make their margins line up - even with the help of good old Clippy. I told her none of the things she talked about were difficult to fix, and I had the new copy back in a few hours. She almost had kittens.
I now use latex for quizzes because it takes me about the same time to write the entire quiz that it would for me to enter two equations into the M$ word equation editor - and this is something that latex is kind of bad at (since consistant formatting, which is one of latex's strengths, is unimportant). At the end of last semester I ran dvipdf on all the quizes and put them up on my homepage. No one complained about unreadable formuli. I have tried this with Word files and there was much wailing and gnashing of teeth.
_________________________________________
a war on terrorism? How can we end a war on a method?
This sig no verb.
Some latex packages are incompatible with each other. If you need A & B, and they are in seperate packages, well, there's a good chance they may clash, as the writers of A & B authored them to scratch their particular itches, there is no central body that ensures add-ons work well together. Lyx, while nifty, still doesn't resolve the problems of conflicts between various Latex Hack^H^H^H^HPackages.
CONTEXT is a new set of macros written over Tex. You can do some very nice layouts very easily, and includes easy markup and layout macros.
http://www.pragma-ade.com/
It supports all sorts of external graphic file formats easily (unlike the myriad hacky Latex files ), font support, a snap to use build system, and structured document design. Interactive PDF generation is also supported. It's a very very nice system that supplies all the abilities of Latex and more in one central consistent package! It's great. Their help list is good too.
But it still takes forever to write a custom document. A lot of typing of styles, a lot of document typing, then building the document, seeing if it looks okay, and re-editing.
I know, people poo-poo OpenOffice. But it's very easy to define and produce Structured documents in it, and the files are small and clean. I've been using it more and more. It forces one to think about their documents in a structured manner, and seperates content from style very nicely. In fact, it could almost generate Context code just as easily as it's XML format if someone wrote a backend. Now, I use OpenOffice exclusively, as the style system is almost as flexible as anything Latex/Context provides.
Personally, I prefer plain TeX. I have found that the flexibility in plain TeX more than made up for the fact that I have to write my own macros to do things rather than relying on ones that someone else had created for LaTeX. (And this in some ways is really an advantage anyway, since it means that you really have to understand how TeX works, which for a CS major is probably a Very Good Thing.) So actually, if I were you, I would learn plain TeX first, and then LaTeX. FWIW, I even write novels in plain TeX.
I did have one LaTeX/TeX-related shock a few years ago. I was writing a book for O'Reilly (yes, O'Reilly of all publishers) and they said that I could not use TeX or LaTeX because they had no one there who could work with it. I ended up using the abomination of all abominations -- M$ Word. Man, that was horrible.
If you write your LaTeX documents under Windows, TeXnicCenter is the perfect IDE to use...
Ok, I didn't see this mentioned so I felt I had to ... many TechDocDepts use either LaTex / Tex or Adobe FrameMaker. I, personally, have never worked in a full production shop that ever used Word for document production.
It's simple, just repeat after me, Word is not a document processor, it is a word processor. Give Word more than a handful of words and it will choke. Word is for secreteries, really, they just took notepad and "blew'd it up real goood!"
LaTexis preferred if your output is published to paper, FrameMaker if you'll distill to PDF.
Anyways, that's my last word.
Words to men, as air to birds.
Real authors use troff!
Which you can actually pronounce correctly from the ASCII!
What makes LaTeX so powerful is, IMHO, not just its ease of use but also its delivery format. You _could_ export to HTML if you so wanted, or you could typeset it as PDF, PS, DVI, or distribute the file as plain LaTeX. The PDF option is my personal favourite, and it's important, too, because it doesn't depend on what fonts the user has installed, works cross- platform, and looks good.
That's enough to make me a happy LaTeX user. Also, if you might enter academia, many academic journals require submissions in LaTeX/TeX format.
LaTeX is also very easy to learn with a simple LaTeX book. Get some LaTeX reference book, virtually any such book, and start typing away-- you'll pick it up in a couple of hours.
My wife got a M.S. from Virginia Tech in Math and was required to submit her master's paper in LaTeX. She used lyx for some of the writing but did the rest by hand. So, I know some schools (at least in 2001) required you to learn it.
Personally, I would use Koffice if I needed to create LaTeX papers. The creator of Klyx (a KDE version of lyx) was one of the core developers on the KWord team, and Klyx was abandoned to support work on Kword. If you know a thing or two about LaTeX you start to notice that KWord feels very "LaTeX like." You can still save documents as LaTeX.
My 2 cents.
I Do C++
Maybe not, but perhaps you've heard of display postscript, or its kissing cousin display PDF used in MacOS X. I'm sure the free software community is hard at work making a display dvi knockoff.
You are running BSD, right????
Take the cheese to sickbay, the doctor should see it as soon as possible - B'Elanna Torres, "Learning Curve"
You should learn LaTeX. It is an awesome way to write documents. I've had a number of professors compliment me on my documents. They look really professional,
:)
Why? My reasons:
#1) If you've done any HTML coding, or are a programmer in general, it is pretty easy to pick up the basics. You don't need to learn all that much to get the core of what you need to do- lists, bold/italic/underline, centering, paragraphs, tables, and some symbols.
#2) You can use tools like LyX to do the work for you. Even if you never learn a lick of real LaTeX code, you still end up with a beautiful document, and any of the other benefits.
#3) You can use LaTeX without having a GUI. Or a newer computer. Or a "full" word processor on a "full" OS. That is, you can write, compile and print out LaTeX docs on a DOS machine, from the console on a Unix machine, a PDA, etc.
I initially decided to learn LaTeX because there was a simple TeX compiler for the NewtonOS, my PDA platform until recently. There was also NewtonWorks- a good mobile Office suite- but there was no simple way for me to output the document and print it without docking with a Mac or Windows machine. With TeX for the Newton, on the other hand, I could export the text to any machine, compile the TeX on the machine itself or on the university mainframe, and then print.
I had to move on around a year ago from the NewtonOS, at least as my primary platform. On the Jornada 720, a Windows CE micro-laptop Handheld PC 2000 device, I started writing my papers using a real version of LaTeX- the same thing as I was using on my OS X machine. Editing the LaTeX code in emacs no less- all on a PDA! The whole cycle- editing, compiling, viewing (with WinDVI) and printing can all be done on a PDA. There are easy to install WinCE packages. I also had a PocketPC for a while, and the packages all worked very well there as well, but editing wasn't as nice as it was on the J720- it has a real keyboard. I've recently switched to the Zaurus SL-C760, and am a bit disapointed in that there aren't any easy to install ipkgs, along with a decent Qtopia LaTeX editor. Alas, I'll work on it soon enough- I'll need to be able to write up LaTeX docs and compile to PS before school starts.
#4) I had another reason, if I remember, I'll put it here!
#5) It's entirely free. Yeah, you could get OpenOffice. Or you could pirate/buy/get bundled MS Office. OO has generally just been a huge hassle for me; MS Office (I'm on OS X) is generally faster, more stable and less of a hassle than OpenOffice, but introduces its own set of problems.
Working toward a usable PDA environment in the spirit of Newton OS: Dynapad
have you tried editing the hundreds makefiles generated by autoconf if it doesn't detect the correct header file, or library version? Have you spent hours trying to determine why it failed to detect something it should? What good is GPL code if I can't get it to build?
In the old days, you had a makefile that listed the files and had some compiler options. Have you seen the 10 lines of options passed to gcc to compiler helloworld?
The same problem with libtool. If you're on linux, no problem. But if it doesn't work, you can spend hours wondering why
I had the chance to be associated with a CS research group as a freshman. Everyone there used LaTeX so I just kind of picked it up with help from those guys. Sure it took me A LOT longer to write those first few papers, but now it is my preferred way to do things. Four years later I can say that learning LaTeX was one of the best things that I have ever done. Sure it is great for math, but I use it for almost anything. Why you ask? Well, using div2ps I can generate postscript...using pdflatex I can generate pdf...and using latex2html I can generate html. It is very handy to have one base format that nicely generates ps, pdf, and html. And it automates easily with a Makefile.
That said LaTeX isn't without its faults. The good does outweigh the bad though. It is great to have automagic numbering of your figures, sections, citations, equations, etc. Doing things like that with other office suites is possible, but generally doesn't work well. In fact, I know one professor who uses MS Word exclusively for everything but writing papers because LaTeX is just so much easier when it comes to labelling and referencing figures, equations, citations, etc. There is nothing that can touch the ease of use provided by LaTeX in that arena. When you have to submit papers in a required style it is very easy to apply a style file instead of worrying about violating the style requirements using another office suite. Need an index or table of contents? Very easy in LaTeX. That is considered an advanced user's problem in other office suites. The one problem that I had with LaTeX at the start was that it doesn't place my figures exactly where I would like them. This is true. I have since learned to not care so much. The figures appear close enough to where I want them. Others may complain about white space. I see that as a moot point. There are many ways to control your white space and make things look just right. You just have to invest the time to learn the commands. I did my resume in LaTeX. White space is super important so that it looks good and allows me to cram as many things on it as possible. No problem in LaTeX. It would have been a nightmare in MS Word (that may be b/c I don't use MS Word, but I still think it would have been a nightmare for someone who knows Word).
The learning curve can be quite steep though. I would recommend... A Guide to LATEX: Document Preparation for Beginners and Advanced Users (3rd Edition) by Helmut Kopka, Patrick W. Daly (ISBN: 0201398257). This probably isn't a great book for beginners, but it is decent for beginners and is the reference book that I still use (I would probably only consider myself an intermediate user if that helps you gauge the level of the book). Between google, CTAN, and this book I haven't had much trouble at all making LaTeX do what I needed it to do.
have you seen the autoconf or libtool shellscripts? They make perl code look readable!
have you tried editing the hundreds makefiles generated by autoconf if it doesn't detect the correct header file, or library version?
You shouldn't ever have to look at or edit the generated scripts. You edit the files that generated the scripts and regenerate them with autoreconf.
This is yet another reason that LaTeX is Good.
If you're doing anything at all with computer algebra (rather common in applied math and engineering science anyway) you'll find you can get maple or mathematica to output your equations at any stage of processing in TeX. They even have little TeX-rendering front ends now.
This is really really nifty, because it means that you can play with the algebraic form of an equation (or a whole table of related equations) and see what form of the same equation typesets the most clearly and readably -- with a far lower probability of making typographic errors!
I did a lot of the equations for my thesis like this, in the late 80's -- using cut-and-paste between different virtual terminals under X windows to get the TeX output from command-line maple and mathematica into my vi session where I was writing my thesis--in plain TeX.
Great reproducibility and easier to keep stuff organised too. It means you can save the maple or mathematica workbook in the same directory as that section of your thesis (and the bibtex file associated with it, and the fortran/C source you also had maple/mathematic spit out to test numerical approaches to solving the same problem).
Someone mentioned FrameMaker -- that was originally just a SunWindows WYSIWYG front-end to TeX. A long long time ago. It was too expensive, and there were several open source alternatives to preview your DVI output, some of which survive to this day.
If you play music with other people lilypond makes the most beautifully typeset music I've ever seen -- in LaTeX --and automates the transcription process for you as well. From the command line. Which means you can set it up as a web service for your muso buddies, who might be blowing a B-flat instrument, while you keep the master transcription in C for the piano. While there are lots of pointy-clicky windows apps that will do this, the typesetting quality is not nearly as good, and because they require someone pointing and clicking, it's much harder to use them as processing back ends to some other thing you might want to do. e.g. a transcription service that you and your friends need in order to play stuff together. But a way to get rehearsal copies to them quickly without a lot of fiddling around in Windows.
There are a lot of really crappy things about LaTeX, but it is definitely the standard. All the journals and conferences I've submitted to assume you are preparing your document in LaTeX, and give you style files to set everything up correctly. citeseer , as far as I know, can only automatically get information from LaTeX-generated PS and PDF files.
You shouldn't ever have to look at or edit the generated scripts. You edit the files that generated the scripts and regenerate them with autoreconf.
.libs subdirectories where there are none???
Will this stop libtool from wrongly including multiple instances of the same library or looking for
When libtool breaks, it is freaking impossible to debug it without some sort of super-human power. The new member of the X-Men: a little girl who has an uncanny ability to actually get the GNU build tools working consistently on Solaris.
Vote in November. You won't regret it.
Whatever happened to MathML ? I remember when it was announced, half a decade ago, I did think it would solve all those printing and compatibility problems. I have yet to find one app that supports it, particularly the browsers.
Non-Linux Penguins ?
As the sysadmin for a large engineering department I always, *always*, recommend grad students learn LaTex if they're go to write any papers.
Anecdotally, Word just seems to do weird things with the layout on way too many papers. This could because the studentsa aren't creating the papers properly or Word is crap.
With LaTex you just have to worry about the content and the equations, the formatting is usely something that can be set once and forgotten.
Equations are a pain no matter what you use. There is just no easy way to create them, well hand writing them is easy but usually not acceptable in most papers.
Find a set of tools, many have been mentioned, that work for you. Learn a version control system to help track/save your document, I would recommend CVS, and start writing.
I repeatedly heckle my coworkers about LaTeX whenever we do proposals.
.net's Autoexpiring Builds Bug, The Four Horsemen of Apocalyptic Nullness, and Bob.
1 - we're stuck using Word. Not likely to change. Proposals, like thesis work and peer-reviewed journals, are one of those times when you do *exactly* what the submission guidelines say, and everything we get says "submit in Word 97/2000 format." A couple of iconoclasts try to do their part in OOffice. Sadly, these proposals always get complicated enough that OOffice just destroys formatting throughout if any segment was created in OOffice. But we're trying to get off Word.
2 - Most of my coworkers have used LaTeX.
3 - We all depend heavily on CVS for our code work.
So, about the umpty-fifth time that Something Horrible* happened to a 40-page document we're rushing to beat a deadline on, I muttered something about how much more fun things would be if we reverted to LaTeX and used CVS to do shared builds until the proposal was done.
One of the guys almost was in tears... you could see him thinking back to how EASY LaTeX was, mentally superimposing a CVS framework, and literally melting down at the Criminal Stupidity* of using Word. Everone else either agreed, or (if they didn't have a LaTeX history) muttered that "anything beats the POS* we're using..."
* Something Horrible, POS, and Criminal Stupidity are all (TM) Microsoft. This rant brought to you by Microsoft, proud maker of the Incredible Biodegradeable Access Forms, VStudio
I used LyX to write out my masters dissertation a year ago. I did have to learn a couple of Latex codes for a few little changes I wanted to make, using ERT.
I couldn't imagine using anything else these days.
Saying your OS is the best because more people use it is like saying MacDonalds make the best food
A lot of journals want LaTeX documents. Those that don't can take your output that you cranked through a back-end filter for LaTeX. You can export to PDF, XML, HTML, DOC, and tons of other formats losslessly - it's essentially what PDF was before there was PDF, IIRC.
Good stuff.
the known habit of M$-word to crash during saving, which ofcourse destorys not only your current work, but all SAVED work since the last backup.
For comparison, LyX backs-up the original BEFORE saving, AND in case of crash, automatically tries to save and "emergency" save. This helped me several times when a network crash cut down my X connection to the server.
Make even shorter URLs - 8LN.org
In college I often used LaTeX. Then I went into corporate life and it's all Word out there (often for compatibility reasons). I tried it and did not like it for several reasons. It's unstable, printouts look messy, documents with figures consisting of several pages result in 'surprising' effects, tangled reference lists, etc. I also tried Framemaker, WP office and Interleaf. Certainly an improvement over Word, but still not good enough. I returned to LaTeX and I stick with it for the time being.
With all due respect to OpenOffice's math editor, it's not in the same league as what you can do with TeX. In fact, it's not even on the same planet.
If the OP is principally interested in typesetting fairly mathematical papers, which sounds plausible but not certain from the description, then OO is not a good way to go (and nor are things like MS Word, for much the same reason).
If you disagree, post your argument. (-1, Overrated) isn't your personal censorship tool for views you don't like.
Yep. I've always thought of LaTeX as being kinda C-like. Everyone knows it sucks in places, the syntax is hideous and the tricky bits require a minimum of guru status (and preferably demigod) to get right. And yet, it's awesomely powerful, it can do almost anything if you ask it nicely enough, and no-one has yet made anything with even close to the same level of power and a significantly nicer interface. For these reasons, it remains the standard for serious users.
If you disagree, post your argument. (-1, Overrated) isn't your personal censorship tool for views you don't like.
- There's a special version of TeX called Omega which does 16-bit Unicode. It can even do Sanskrit. Some critics say it doesn't cut the cake, however.
- There's also Unicode support for LaTeX.
UlrikDatabase engine for analyzed or annotated text
I think that if you submit papers to any journal or academic periodically that latex isn't only the standard.. it's the law! So if you are planning on doing such, learning latex may be useful.
Care to explain that one?
.la files strewn everywhere, and the hidden .lib directories, these tools begin to look as if some Microsoft interns were responsible for them. Any multi-thousand line monolithic shell script should be taken out and shot, regardless of purpose.
While compiling various software, especially on non-GNU/Linux platforms it seems, I keep running up against these tools. Looking at their executable source code (libtool+configure is approx. 15000 lines of shell script), the absolute paths encoded in many
The stated goal of these tools is to aid portability, but I can't see how. The complexity they add puts a shadow over the portability problem, forcing software programmers to have to learn even more beyond the already numerous tools, such as sh, make, cc, dbx and cvs, and forcing users to put up with the liklihood that the resulting bundled mess will break. The only thing served appears to be frustration.
I have heard people say how bad portability was "back in the day", and that is fine. However, why does such a highly-automated tool need to be invented, when an equally comprehensive--yet static--make include file would be relatively trivial yet serve the same purpose, for example. Then, when the build breaks, the debugging effort can be traced down to one, and exactly one, environment variable.
It also appears that the prorammers using these tools often shoot themselves in thier feet during their build-tool-buzzword quest. For example, I've seen several software packages that jump through all sorts of hoops with things like autoconf and libtool, yet the makefiles work only with GNU make and bash. It seems it would be better if the programmer aims for POSIX makefiles and vanilla Bourne shell and the remaining small deviations from system to system can be worked around as they are discovered. There are well-known software engineering concepts, such as encapsulation and abstraction, that would get very good milage, here.
Essentially, my rant is based in a desire for utter simplicity and robustness in software while still serving portability. A gain in simplicity through proper abstractions and straight-forward configuration management is a ten-fold gain in portability, in my opinion, where, if something breaks, fixing it is practical and communicating the fix back to the author is possible. "libtool is broken and I don't know why" is hardly an effective bug report.
Healthcare article at Kuro5hin
Mozilla supports MathML. I don't know how much of it does support, though. Last time I checked, it was only in a separate build. However, notes on the Mozilla page make it seem as if it's in recent versions of Mozilla. And when I look at MathML test pages, my version (1.4) views usually displays them fine. I think you have to download special fonts to handle all the characters specified in MathML.
On a side note, I'm getting frustrated with using Word and Open Office to set equations. I've thought about using LaTeX, but I'm not sure that LaTeX formatting is as easy for the other sorts of papers I write (I'm sort of in an odd field in that way).
I'm sort of surprised that Open Office hasn't incorporated LaTeX as part of its equation editor, or MathML for its equations. Or does it? Does anyone know of any efforts by Open Office to do such a thing? It would probably be the thing that would cause me to switch to Open Office once and for all.
My main reference was The Not So Short Introduction to LaTeX2e.
Well, have you ever actually complained to those people? If not then expect nothing to change. They probably one day switched over from latex to msword and no one said anything so they probably figured that everyone must like it.
heh...
Complained to who? We're a small shop and I'd get full buy-in from everyone in-house. Damn, if it weren't for those pesky customers.
In my case, most of those 'pesky' customers are big entities like the US Government and banks. Knowing the hierarchy at these specific clients, I can say that management decisions are NOT made based on our input. Further, the decision-makers can't spell LaTeX properly, pronounce it, or for that matter even use Word at a complex enough level to appreciate my gripes (cue soundbite: "That's what secretaries are for").
Of course, that doesn't stop me from proselytizing the OneTrueWay. But I'm an old dog and I prefer to save my energy and IOU's for things that I can change, not barking at the moon.
But it's certainly still worth wearing :)
Programs like Lyx will ensure it's popularity anyway, it's a lot less time consuming for documentation than buggy Word.
I got through my CS undergrad program using other programs (AmiPro or Word for papers, CorelDraw for crude flowcharts (Visio or something else would be better if you're doing a lot of charting)).
Most of the CS professors used tex, and one or two advocated it, but we turned in most stuff on paper, and ascii if electronic, so it didn't matter what you used, and I never had any problem for not using tex.
However, I wasn't doing much with formulae.
If you're not planning on going to grad school or publishing, you'll probably never _really_ need it, but if you want to learn it, why not?
Nothing to see here; Move along.
Unfortunately, the alternative you suggest has been tried for many many years. It has been found to profoundly suck even more.
That path leads to maintaining thousands of lines of makefiles manually, and getting serious breakage every time a vendor releases a new version of their OS. Or every time someone installs a lib in a slightly non-standard way. I can recall spending days editing makefiles to get something to compile on a not-so-mainstream platform.
Automake and company arent perfect in any way, nor are they always used correctly, but they've made improvements in the order of magnitudes for the probability that something will compile.
One thing I haven't seen mentioned yet is longevity. For example, I wrote my undergraduate honors thesis in Word95. New versions of Word totally mangle it. I could open it in a new Word, reformat it again, and repeat every time (once every two or three years) I want to look at it.
Since I started graduate school, it's been and all LaTeX world for me. Since LaTeX/TeX had been around for a long time, is open source, was written by some really smart people, etc. I am confident all of my LaTeX documents will be readable in the future. If worse comes to worse, I can always compile an old version of LaTeX if that much changes in 10,20,50 years. If you care about your documents, and especially their "digital longevity" (i.e., there ability to be viewed, modified, and printed many years from now), LaTeX is the best solution by far.
If you want to use LaTeX to academic papers with lot of formulas and nice references with BibTeX, it is really great, but to use it as an all purpose word processor is a bad idea.
The first problem is to use tables. The markup for it with lot of &'s is really terrible. You'll suffer a lot counting the number of ampersands just for a simple table. You will miss HTML simple open and close tags.
The other problem is that your documents will all have the same dull face. You'll get a great typesetting, nice structure, but they will all look like an academic paper. Sure, with TeX you can do everything, but it isn't worth the hassle to modify it for what a good looking Word template would give you in seconds.
I worked at a financial software company that had a heavy academic background. They used LaTeX for lots of stuff.
One day I was at lunch with the group admin assistant who was a visual artist who worked for us as a day job. She had no sci/tech background and had never heard of LaTeX. She told a story about how the boss had sent her an email saying something like
"Hi, I need you to learn about LaTeX, come see me this afternoon".
Of course the only thing she could think of was "i'm not that kind of girl".
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Have you tried using a program by MathSoft called MathCad? It lets you set up functions, calculus, algebra, graphs (Just about anything Math/Physics/Engineering Related) and it looks very nice. You also have the ability to save your equations as Rich Text Format, so they can be used in programs like Word and still look the same.
You can try Lout also. It's kind of a new LaTeX although they both look the same to me. Whichever is easier to learn, I don't know.
I just finished writing my thesis and LaTeX was the easiest way I could find to a large number of pages. I got sick of other programs dying/crashing/some other extreme in the middle of a paper. With LaTeX the most complicated UI I used was emacs. They also have pseudo WYSIWYG editors for it so it can almost be like writing with other word processors. The hardest part is when there is no template for the work you are doing. It takes a lot of work to format a page by hand. If you can find the right template (many schools have latex templates that format your document exactly as needed) you don't have to touch a thing and the document looks great. Good luck!!
Can you ping me now?... Good!
And why don't you put you .doc files in the CVS repository?
I'll take it you've never used CVS, and are not just Trolling.
CVS is largely line/text oriented. There are capabilities in it to handle binary, but they're incompatible with most front-end tools (wincvs, cvsweb, jcvs are ones I've used) and they are by default turned to an 'off' position. This means that typically CVS just notes the change and keeps a copy of each revision. You can move back to an old version, but you can't diff two versions intelligibly.
I believe I've read somewhere that Subversion (the currently 0.5 project which is designed to replace and improve on CVS) is geared toward some improvements on binary-handling, among the other things that are needed (directory moves). But for now, sticking doc files into CVS accomplishes nothing more than archiving old versions with a hefty size/storage penalty once docs get to be several megs in size.
To be honest, a binary version control system is troublesome, since diff and merge and other features become problematic or impossible. That's an advantage that text formatting tools like LaTeX or tagged-text (html, xml) have over binary (or undocumented proprietary) file formats.
For those that really need doc versioning tools, there's SourceSafe. Microsoft knows the file formats, so Microsoft can do version control intelligibly. God help all that take off down that path, though. Proprietary version control plus proprietary file formats... (shudders) brings to mind the line from Monty Python: "Water tarts distributin' swords is no basis for a system of government".