Yahoo! Settles Patent Dispute

theodp writes "NCR has settled the lawsuit it brought against Yahoo! last December for infringing on 10 patents related to e-commerce technology. The case, discussed earlier on Slashdot, was especially significant because it involved broad patents covering basic Internet functions. As part of the settlement, Yahoo! is now licensing the technology. Terms of the settlement and licensing agreement were not disclosed."

Comments

first post!

[Anonymous Coward]

fp bizotches!

Re:first post!

[Adolf Hitroll]

Gratulierung, Arschloch !
Ein Gross "Heil" für deine Erstheit !

Re:first post!

[Anonymous Coward]

Correction:

GRATULATION, Arschloch!
Ein GROSSES "Heil" für deine Erstheit!

Bla bla bla...

[flicken]

Yet Another Patent Article == YAPA YAPA YAPA

Haven't we had enough yet?

Re:Bla bla bla...

[Tokerat]

No.

Re:Bla bla bla...

[thesadjester]

No. We won't have had enough until this nonsense ends. Having control over a certain implementation is one thing, but to claim IP over "ordering and downloading resources from computerized repositories" is total crap. Basically ordering and downloading were around as were computerized repositories. They just put to things that existed together in one patent to try and control it.

I wish yahoo had some guts and had decided to take it on. The patent system was never meant to uphold these patents. That's the point, and that's why we keep seeing these stories. If no one knows about it, nothing will happen.

I feel that action has to be taken, and that individuals as well as corporations this affects voice their opinion to congress and make them add some type of safeguard since the patent office is grossly handing out dangerous patents.

These are extremely dangerous patents. What if someone took a stove and added a keyboard to it and patented that. The two existed before. Does that mean that one should be able to patent the simple combination of the two?

Re:Bla bla bla...

[Anonymous Coward]

These are extremely dangerous patents. What if someone took a stove and added a keyboard to it and patented that. The two existed before. Does that mean that one should be able to patent the simple combination of the two?

The simple combination of the two, no. But if someone came up with some neat way to combine said stove and said keyboard to do something unique/interesting/useful (aside from 'just sit there' and 'make friends question sanity'), then that is something that could be patentable. The problem lies in the determination of whether or not the 'invention' is unique/interesting/useful enough to deserve a patent, which is the responsibility of the patent office. Unfortunately, these folks aren't exactly the smartest people -- not that they're particulary dense, but they just don't usually realize or understand the full implications of approving the patents that are submitted nearly as well as the companies that submit them.

Re:Bla bla bla...

[Anonymous Coward]

Excellent! I'll call it "The Burger Buddy" keyboard and if y'all want to fry up some burgers while you're computing you're gonna have to buy it from ME. "You've got burgers" (tm)

Re:Bla bla bla...

[Jester99]

Indeed, if the stove + keyboard did something unique, that's a fine idea for a patent.

The thing about software patents is, the algorithms they're patenting already existed. It's just that a microchip is doing the footwork, instead of a human.

Ordering system. You call up or write up an order slip, put some item numbers on it, and give it to a guy. The guy looks at the inventory, makes sure it's there. He then packs your order up, while making a copy for another guy, who sends you an invoice based on your customer ID. A guy at your end takes the invoice and pays money to their guy.

Fast forward to 2003. You put a credit card number in the computer, and click on a bunch of items to add their inventory numbers to a list.

A database comes along, checks that they've got enough of everything in stock, and tells a guy to pack 'em up for you. Their database talks to your credit card co's database, based on your credit card number, and bills you.

In 25 years when we have more intelligent robots, will the whole process be patentable again by removing the one guy involved (the one who takes the item off the shelf, addresses it, and puts it in the mail) and instead sticking a robot in this place?

That's not novel. It's just progress.

Re:Bla bla bla...

[budgenator]

The patent office has been burned before because of not granting patents the should have been, so now their stratagy seems to be grant the patent, and let the courts sort it out later. This is complicated by the courts stratagy of if the patent is granted, its valid untill proven otherwise.

Re:Bla bla bla...

[Ciggy]

"I wish yahoo had some guts and had decided to take it on."

Isn't this exactly what SCO are hoping with their "Linux run-time licences"? If they get enough takers (even just one?) they'll say "ah, but, we've got this/all these licencee(s) to prove that we're right as they knew that they were using it wrongly and so IBM had better pay up, and all you other Linux users 'cos we're gunna sue ya."

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Urgh.

[BJH]

From the law.com article:

The patents at issue in the Yahoo case cover "ordering and downloading resources from computerized repositories;" a "computer system for management of resources;" and a "mechanism for dependably managing Web synchronization and tracking operations among multiple browsers," among other claims.

Great. Just great. So now ordering stuff over the Internet is patented. Fine for Yahoo, Amazon or other large companies who can afford to license this crap, but what about smaller businesses?

Just one more step towards making the Internet a worldwide version of the Shopping Channel. Thanks, NCR. I'll remember you in my prayers tonight.

Re:Urgh.

[Tokerat]

mechanism for dependably managing Web synchronization and tracking operations among multiple browsers,

That last one looks an awful lot like "logins and passwords". IANAL.

I should patent "Method for creating a repository of methods to create goods and services reserved for use by their original designers for a predetermined period ". Then I'd sue the USPTO. Imagine the irony.

Re:Urgh.

[Brian Boitano]

Thanks, NCR. I'll remember you in my prayers tonight.

Dear Lord, Please Smite down NCR with thy Might Hand.

Amen

Re:Urgh.

[BJH]

"Logins and passwords" + "Database backend" is my guess.

Re:Urgh.

[Rhone]

I should patent "Method for creating a repository of methods to create goods and services reserved for use by their original designers for a predetermined period ". Then I'd sue the USPTO. Imagine the irony.

I think the USPTO wouldn't have a whole lot of trouble proving prior art.

Re:Urgh.

[Anonymous Coward]

15 Years ago my 5 line bbs had software that allowed folks to order software and subscriptions to the BBS and allowed use of a credit card and or checks to pay for the transaction. I could also sell other things such as faster modems ( I did ) so the 1200 baud folks could upgrade to a more modern 9600 baud ( ok so that is slow now it screamed back then ) modem and such. So it sounds like maybe the folks who wrote the software for TBBS's subscription management system might have prior claim to parts of NCR's patents. And I imagine other BBS software also had similar sotware. I know of at least one that allowed you to run a online store so maybe these folks sould dust off the old stuff and make some money the old fashioned way also by suing NCR ??

Re:Urgh.

[gilroy]

Blockquoth the poster:

I think the USPTO wouldn't have a whole lot of trouble proving prior art.

Oh, I don't know. They seem to have a pretty hard time in other cases...

Re:Urgh.

[Aidtopia]

Lots of people in this discussion seem to pay too much attention to the titles of patents. The title is not the specific invention being patented--it's a general description of it. You have to look at the claims. So just because the title says "computer system for management of resources," it doesn't mean that all computer systems that manage resources are covered.

That being said, these patents may or may not be frivolous. I haven't read the claims. Have you?

Re:Urgh.

[Anonymous Coward]

Well, the fact that they're suing Yahoo kinda indicates that at least NCR thinks that these patents are pretty broad...

Re:Urgh.

[Anonymous Coward]

I am going to patent the "browsing of the web". Is it already patented. i don't think so....

see ya all in court......HUH

Re:Urgh.

[axxackall]

Thanks, NCR. I'll remember you in my prayers tonight.

There is nothing wrong with NCR. It's USPO that must be vanished. I hope next 9/11 plane won't miss their office.

Re:Urgh.

[mystran]

"a computer system for management of resources" could mean pretty much anything, including EVERY operating system (including DOS).. so there's some prior art.

"ordering and downloading resources from computerized repositories" basicly could mean each and every database ever built which involves some kind of client/server concept (so we can get the downloading too).. some prior art there too, since a "SELECT"-statement is basicly an order on what to download.

Now, the third part in common English reads "session management" (and possibly some kind of transactions, in which case refer to the previous paragraph) which I can't really say if they could have a valid claim over, except that I'd really imagine that there is prior art prior Netscape introducing cookies for this purpose, since the point of cookies is to make it easier.

Really, the only thing that makes this particular point a little harder to prove wrong is the introduction of the Web which means that the timeframe is much smaller. I'd still imagine that such prior art does exist.

Hopefully the "other claims" are little more realistic. I personally never understood the idea of patents. I could understand a patent for one, maybe even two years, but that's about it.

Re:Urgh.

[Tokerat]

Hence, the point reiterated.

no, of course I didn't, don't ask

[frovingslosh]

So if NCR sued Yahoo and Yahoo was the one infringing, why is it that " Yahoo is now licensing the technology" instead of NCD doing the licensing?

Re:no, of course I didn't, don't ask

[c.emmertfoster]

You are simply misinterpreting the summary. Yahoo is bending over and assuming the position for NCR.

Re:no, of course I didn't, don't ask

[digitalunity]

They are licensing the technology from NCR. I guess this way ended up cheaper than the lawsuit. That's sad too. The board of directors looked at the two options and chose the cheaper option, not the right one.

In this case, doing the Right Thing(TM) cost more than doing the cheap and easy thing. It's sad because they can afford to license this technology from NCR, yet many small companies are left in the dust. And, the fact that they are now licensing these frivolous patents only gives the patents credibility, making it even harder for the little guy to escape.

I realize, corporations are financially self-serving; but that doesn't make it right.

Re:no, of course I didn't, don't ask

[olderchurch]

It's better to kneel down than to bend over (FZ)

Re:no, of course I didn't, don't ask

[Anonymous Coward]

In this case, doing the Right Thing(TM) cost more than doing the cheap and easy thing...the fact that they are now licensing these frivolous patents only gives the patents credibility, making it even harder for the little guy to escape.

If they settled and licensed it's because their lawyers told them to. In this country, just about any court case can be won given infinite time and money but when the numbers start looking astonomical, somebody just says "fsck it let's settle - i'm getting tired of this topic". That's not the Right Thing (TM), it's the Same Old Thing (TM): justice for the people who can afford the lawyers. There is no escape for the little guy.

Re:no, of course I didn't, don't ask

[kfg]

That would be because you speak English, as opposed to Timothy, who sort of makes things up as he goes along.

Obviously NCR is licensing the technology. Since they are the claimed owners they are the only ones who can do such licensing.

Yahoo! is buying a license.

While the difference between transitive and intransitive verbs is dying in English, Americans like to shoot them with a bazooka and then pretend it never happened.

KFG

Re:no, of course I didn't, don't ask

[EvilTwinSkippy]

Actually the Bazooka hasn't been in issue since the Korean war. We would probably use a Javelin shoulder-fired missile.

Re:no, of course I didn't, don't ask

[nametaken]

So basically, only Yahoo Shops customers will be able to legally conduct business on the web? Maybe Yahoo knew what they were doing when they licenced it. It makes them one of the only legal ways for small business to perform transactions on the web.

Re:no, of course I didn't, don't ask

[Anonymous Coward]

I wish they'd learned more game theory :(

The correct way to deal with this crap is to have lawyers on retainer. Since you pay no matter what, you're pre-comitted to fighting it (something you should make public!) and thus, since they're trying to bluff you out of the nuisance value of the lawsuit, they get invalidated.

Yup, this sort of crap was a real example from our textbook of how to deal with such tactics in games...

Boo!

[Angry Pixie]

"ordering and downloading resources from computerized repositories;" a "computer system for management of resources;" and a "mechanism for dependably managing Web synchronization and tracking operations among multiple browsers,"

So technically everyone who runs a dynamic database-driven website that serves up content is violating at least three of the ten patents NCR holds.

Yet another reason to hate ATM machines...

Re:Boo!

[mericet]

Not necessarily, these seem like the patents titles (e.g. 'a method and system for ordering and downloading resources from computerized repositories') and not the claims.

Titles are usually overly borad, but have no legal imlications, in a patent, only the valid claims have legal imlications and they are usually much narrower.

P.S. IANAL...

Re:Boo!

[Felinoid]

You know actually I'm pritty sure I've been violating the "Computer system for managment of resources" patent for most of my life.
Actually maybe we all have.
Every sence I've been born I've used electricity and I'm told the day I was born my father called my grandmother (moms side).
(Not sure how long computers have been used for power plants probably not as far back as 1969 however the phone company has used computers to "manage" the "resources" of the phone network for quite some time).

"Ordering and downloading resources from computerized reporitories" Compuserve's CompUstore and Fantacy Plaza.
I ran a BBS with file xfer so I've personally violated the downloading part.

"mechanism for dependably managing web synchronization and tracking operations among multiple browsers"
Ok now name me someone with a website who dosen't do this.
Got the name ready? Bzzzt... HTML everyone uses it. Just becouse they use it incorrectly dosen't mean a thing they still use it.

On the face of it I'd say NEC got a copy of some "E-Commerce made easy" book done in the early 1990's and patented everything inside.
Some of this stuff can be found in many HTML 2.0 tutorials.
The rest found in early electronic stores (Like CompUstore and Fantacy plaza)

When did NEC get those patents anyway?
There have been a number of Internet stores that came and went long before Yahoo was an Internet search engen (let alone a ecommerce site).

Not to long after Netscape enhanced web pages showed up there was CGI to identify the browser and serve off the appropreate web page.
NEC eather got the patent after the CGI (prior art) or when HTML standards were still a reliable means of univsersal browser support.
And as HTML standards remainned a reliable means of getting universal support for quite some time after the introduction of the web browser detection CGI code there remains the posability that when NEC got it's patent there as not a single website in existence that wasn't an example of prior art.

The fact is there are so many ways to make your website portable that any website that says "We don't have the resources to support anything other than ...." Is really saying "We don't know our @** from a hole in the ground when it comes to ecommerce."

Yahoo uses a unique method of reliably supporting many web browsers so if NECs patent applys to it there is little hope NECs patent isn't overly broud. Unless NECs patent process includes corprate spys seeing what other companys are working on so they can patent same before those technologys become public.

Let's have some fun with this. I'll create some "patents" and you find the prior art.

A method of upgrading an existing black and white live image transmission to include color.

A method or means of extending a cable legth byond spec with out a loss of data.

A method or means of sending a microwave signal byond it's normal range with out altering the antana, boosting the signal stregth or changing the transmission frequency.

A means of obtaining noise when not picking up a signal.

A method used to make one program that works on more than one program.
(this has many posabile answers that I'm aware of)

A means of recycling natrally occuring waist.
(Just a hint... Ewwww)

Finally..
A method or system by such that air is reprocessed for plants that is self sufficant and capable of self repair, self improvent and if nessisary self destruction and may also provide for other needs of plants as nessisary.

Re:Boo!

[Angry Pixie]

Obviously the patents so broad as to be void for vagueness (note that term doesn't actually here, but it should!)

And that's the sheer stupidity of it. According to NCR, basically anyone who has a dynamic site is likely violating their patents. According to the original article, they've sued somewhere in the area of 150 or so companies.

Incidentally, I hold the patent to posting long ranting replies that obfuscate whether I support or oppose an issue in question... can I have a check now?

I wonder...

[Catharz]

how long until somebody buys these guys to get hold of the patents.

Looks up the genome for Chinese people and quietly patents it

not disclosed

[Anonymous Coward]

"Terms of the settlement and licensing agreement were not disclosed."

They always say that, eh!?

I'd like to see a law passed where any time anyone settles out of court, the terms have to be disclosed.

Just because...

Re:not disclosed

[scaife]

It's probably because their terms included some kind of plot against Microsoft for use of other "basic Internet functions" like having to actually set your browser's front page to Yahoo.

Re:not disclosed

[glwtta]

Well anyone, any time might be overdoing it a bit, but when it comes to corporations settling over matters that affect an entire industry, it might be a very good idea.

Though I doubt that's legally possible, even if corporate regulation was popular around here.

Re:not disclosed

[rf0]

They don't want to show how much of their soul they have sold

Rus

Re:not disclosed

[ratamacue]

Great, let's propose MORE government to solve a problem that was created by government in the first place.

The solution is to abolish the laws which are exploitable and invite people to adopt force as a business model. The problem in this case lies in the exploitable nature of existing US patent law, not because of a lack of some law.

Re:not disclosed

[Luigi30]

But they wouldn't disclose the terms of that.

Re:not disclosed

[smueller]

The terms are zero money and an indefinite license for the ridiculous patents. NCR knows they would lose a court case. So by settling this way, they assure Yahoo they won't even try to take them to court.. and they put fear into every other company on the internet. Now they can say, "Yahoo already realized it was pointless to fight us and they settled."

Re:not disclosed

[Anonymous Coward]

Because Yahoo is a public company, don't they have to put something in their filings for this kind of stuff?

Re:not disclosed

[greenrd]

The solution is to abolish the laws which are exploitable and invite people to adopt force as a business model.

Yeah, that's right, lets settle IP disputes with gun battles! That would sure be better than an exploitable legal system!

Re:not disclosed

[nametaken]

I'm sure Michael Jackson would have loved that idea.

Re:not disclosed

[slipstick]

Um, when I initially read his statement I assumed the same semantics as you however what I think he means is,

"The solution is to abolish bad laws. The bad laws are those that are exploitable and just invite people to adopt force as a business model."

I'm fairly certain he wasn't inviting people to pick up a gun to settle corporate disputes. But than again a few well placed rounds in the heads of some corporate execs might actually change their attitudes. Hell this could be fun, it could make for a great sport. Rather than settle or go to court IBM and SCO could just have a WWF style tag team, no holds barred, cage match. They could probably make millions on the event.

Re:not disclosed

[ratamacue]

You're right, I should have paid more attention to semantics. Just to be clear, it is the notion of using force to accomplish a goal that I consider the root of the problem. I am of the belief that it is never moral or just to use force to achieve a goal, except for the special case of self-defense. Big government encourages the use of force by setting the bad example -- after all, everything government does is rooted in force, by definition.

Re:not disclosed

[Zork the Almighty]

Great, let's propose MORE government to solve a problem that was created by government in the first place.

Boy, that sounds remarkably similar to what we do with technology !

Exclude it then ...

[zonix]

Haven't we had enough yet?

No. But if you like, you can always exclude the patent articles from the homepage in you /. preferences.

z

I refer you to my post dt. July 02

[unixwin]

The link

or just the quote below...

Differently seen companies chasing their tails in copyright infringments,
trade protocol violations and intellectual property rights
are generally the ones which are going to fall pretty soon.

Short on cash and not being able to earn/fund the millions
they were used to in the dotgone era they are metamorphosing into scavengers and opportunists ....
SCO is a shining example

The crummy economy is bringing out the best in a lot of Companys, their legal team thinks, "we are getting irrelevant (as a team) , lets think up something to make some money and make sure we dont' get laid off," "hmmm... patent # 5551212 seems to be worth looking into" and there starts their Road to Hell

Easy money (or so they think) ,lot of publicity (for sure) and a lot of hits on their website , so there's a new concept for you

the legal team is now the marketing team

Re:I refer you to my post dt. July 02

[salesgeek]

the legal team is now the marketing team

I always recommend having the sales prevention department run your marketing program. It's a lot like having accounting handle merchandising or sales run R&D...

well, what would you prefer?

[Anonymous Coward]

(a) yet another patent article

or

(b) sex with a mare

Patents are evil for software

[Elektroschock]

Just a few quotes:

Indeed, for those of you who were here this morning and listened to the people in the software industry talk about how threatening this is to their businesses, as I see it, patents today are often entrenching the established at the expense of allowing the newcomer to come in. I question today whether a Steve Jobs could start an Apple or a Bill Gates could start a Microsoft in view of the web and thicket of patents that is out there.
Joshua Kaplan, Intouch

Oracle Corporation opposes the patentability of software. The Company believes that existing copyright law and available trade secret protections, as opposed to patent law, are better suited to protecting computer software developments.
Oracle 1994

The mind has always been sacrosanct. The claim that intellectual processes and logical procedures (that do not primarily manipulate devices) can be possessed and monopolized extends greed and avarice much too far. Algorithmic intellectual processes must remain unpatentable -- even when represented by binary coding in a computer; even when executed by the successor to the calculator.[..]The company for which I am speaking, Autodesk, holds some number of software patents and has applied for others -- which, of course, remain secret under current U.S. law. However, all are defensive -- an infuriating waste of our technical talent and financial resources, made necessary only by the lawyer's invention of software patents. Autodesk has faced at least 17 baseless patent claims made against it and has spent over a million dollars defending itself, with millions more certain to pour down the bottomless patent pit unless we halt this debacle. Fortunately -- unlike smaller software producers -- we have the financial and technical resources to rebuff such claims.

Jim Warren (Autodesk) 1994

The time and money we spend on patent filings, prosecution, and maintenance, litigation and licensing could be better spent on product development and research leading to more innovation. But we are filing hundreds of patents each year for reasons unrelated to promoting or protecting innovation.
Robert Barr (CISCO) 2002

Please help the Europeans to avoid Arlene McCarthys patent directive legislation. You shall sign the Eurolinux-Petition http://noepatents.org and support FFII http://swpat.ffii.org or other groups http://softwarepatents.co.uk

Talk to your EU representatives and tell them what you think about software patents, what they mean for your business. Stop the sausage machine as MEP Rothley (pro-swPat] denounced parliament legislation.

More information about swpat-legislation in the EU.

Re:Patents are evil for software

[JamesP]

I think the best way to counter stupid laws is by abusing them. Let's start patenting everything that "may"be usd in the future, products that don't exist today because of technicalities, etc... Like: Method to use multiple keys to extend keyboard capabilities (Shift+a = A) Method for finding substrings in a great quantity of text (grep)

Re:Patents are evil for software

[Elektroschock]

No way. Patents are very expensive. Small companies and individuals simply can't afford them.

A license or a gun...

[Thinkit3]

What would you rather have? What's more real? But I guess some of that legalese is thick enough to stop a tank gun!

NCR IS TEH GAY!

[c.emmertfoster]

Just who exactly are these evil overlords, anyway? Who is NCR? Should I be spelling it NR or somesuch? Are they as evil as MS? What teh hell is the bottom line here?

Re:NCR IS TEH GAY!

[digitalunity]

Do some research. NCR makes ATM machines. NCR makes POS(Point Of Sale) machines. They used to make networking equipment for their products(who knows if they still do). They aren't necessarily evil. They are broke. Doesn't make it right though.

They are nowhere near as bad as Microsoft. But, if corporations continue to bend over, they might get that bad.

Re:NCR IS TEH GAY!

[Anonymous Coward]

Oh get off the Microsoft high horse for crying out loud...

Being maimed by a bullet is nowhere near as bad as being killed by one, but that doesn't make being maimed good, does it??

Auto Patents search?

[westyvw]

Ok so I have had it. Using a dictionary (computer based), and a web browser, and a little programming, isnt it possible I could write a program to use random key words to do a patent search, and then have the results of non patented key words using phrases in a sort of smart order like noun, adjective, adverb, noun, or something like that to figure out all the non patented combinations and then submit those?
Like: computer bottling swiftly beer?

Patents suck.

Re:Auto Patents search?

[Anonymous Coward]

Of course. You just need to submit a paper describing each subject and how to achieve it, plus pay the patent fees for each of them, not quite low. Ah, and wait possibly a few years till they are accepted. And later withstand psychically all the pressure from those on whose field you stepped by patenting whatever they do. (but the last is not a problem if you have a mare ;)

Re:Auto Patents search?

[Anonymous Coward]

Yes, I patented it last year - so anti up.

Re:Auto Patents search?

[91degrees]

You need one of these

Re:Auto Patents search?

[Natty P]

A better idea would be to make an automated program to grab records out of the existing patent database, append " using a computer" or " on the internet" to the title, and sprinkle vague, technical sounding terms throughout the body of the patent.

You've also got a sure chance of it being accepted. For example, everyone (or at least the patent office) understands that "Method of swinging on a swing" is different from "Method of swinging on a swing using a computer " or "Method of swinging on a swing on the internet ".

no more patents or sex with a mare?

[Anonymous Coward]

A full grown stallion's cock, when fully erect, will measure some two to
three feet long. It can be three to six inches thick at the base, to about
two inches thick at the head. Horses are somewhat different from other
animals in the way their cock head works. When a horse is fully erect and
excited and ready to mount, his cock head is somewhat pointed and not as
thick as might be normally observed. This is to facillatate an easier
entry into the mare. After the horse has entered and reaches a climax the
head swells (though it is more spongy then hard) into a fist sized mass as
he ejacultates. It is thought that this serves as a plug to force the
semen deep into the mare rather then allowing it to leak out. A full grown
stallion can ejaculate about one cup ( 8 ounces ) of semen. It will take
quite a few spurts to accomplish this. Each time his tail will raise and
lower in a brief flick. The first few jets are of a thin to average
consistency of cum. The final few jets are of a thick gelatinous
substance... it is thought that this serves to "seal" the mares pussy so
that the semen has time to do it's thing before leaking out. Horse semen
is extremely viscous, if you touch your finger to a pool of it you can draw
a thin string of it five to six feet long! Horse cum has a nice flat taste
to it...not at all bitter like man's cum. You can easily drink cups of it
with no discomfort.

The Mare - how to do it.

Mares can be quite satisfactory for the average well endowed male. If you
are somewhat less developed you might find better pleasure with a pony or
Miniature Horse. These are also better as they are lower to the ground. A
pony you can fuck standing up. A miniature horse on your knees or
squatting depending on the size. A mare will require something to stand on
or "platform shoes"...(IE mini stilts to raise you a foot off the ground)
so that you can reach her pussy.
Fucking any horse will depend on the horse. Some will be ready right
away...some will take coaxing. Pet the animal, talk to it softly, spend
time with it gaining it's trust. If something you are doing upsets it then
don't force it. Talk to it and calm it. If you work slowly you can make
an animal accept anything. It is just a question of helping it overcome
it's fears. All animals fear man if raised in the wild. How any animal
reacts will depend on it's own experiences. If you haved raised the animal
yourself in a loving enviroment, then you should have no problem
associating with it, if it is a strange animal that you have met in the
wild then you will have to go through an extended "courtship" to learn how
to respond to the beast.

MARES - TRAINING YOUR OWN

When the filly reaches weaning age, seperate her from her dam. If you have
limited time to spend then she should be put to pasture. If you have
plenty of time then you should keep her in a stall. Spend time with her
during the day petting and grooming her and allow her some time to run
free. Limit her access to other horses though and see that she spends at
least 8-12 hours a day in the stall. (Start with more free time and as she
approaches her first birthday confine her more...she is now at the right
age and her confinement will have made her so bored that she is amenable to
any new experience so long as it is not unpleasant)Young fillys have no
objection to someone playing with their pussy's. I have walked up on a pen
full of strange fillys at night and they came right up to me and I petted
them and felt up their pussys and they just lifted their tales and seemed
to enjoy it. These fillys didn't even know me but they were young,
inexperienced and bored...also since they were penned they were used to the
presence of people and did not fear me. Most horses in a large pasture
will run when they scent a strange human in their pasture at night.
If you sit on the ground and wait patiently, they will get downwind of you
and s

Fight Software Patents

[lee-irving]

This is the reason why we need to fight software patents within the UK and EU. Please email, write, telephone your local MP , MEP and let them know that software patents will kill our industry.

I am not sure but if the EU starts to accept software patents will the US patents be enforceable through WIPO or similar. If so then the EU will already be at a loss as all the US patents will come into force and by typing this I am probably breaking a few of them :)

Re:Fight Software Patents

[Elektroschock]

Eu-Parlamentarians Search engine.
/*I am not sure but if the EU starts to accept software patents will the US patents be enforceable through WIPO or similar. If so then the EU will already be at a loss as all the US patents will come into force and by typing this I am probably breaking a few of them :)*/

This will be the next step. See FFII swpat AG for comprehensive details or join a Mailinglist patents@Aful.org or bxl@ffii.org

Re:Fight Software Patents

[Anonymous Coward]

A huge problem is that there are already around 40.000 illegal patents registrered in the EU, which will suddenly become legal patents the day software patents become legal.
75% of those patents are owned by companies outside the EU. Now, this is what I call protecting your national software industry.... Or not!

Re:Fight Software Patents

[Anonymous Coward]

I am not sure but if the EU starts to accept software patents will the US patents be enforceable through WIPO or similar.

No. Patents are only domestically enforceable. What happens with WIPO (and the "International Patent") is that multiple domestic patent applications are simultaneously filed through one, agreed upon filing mechanism. That is to say, you file one patent application, designate the States for which you desire protection, and then prosecute each of those applications according to the laws of the particular country.

Stop Complaining

[patch-rustem]

Stop complaining and join the fun. There's loads of patents to be found at reasonable prices
Buy a few and start sending out those threating letter yourself. Easy money.
The SCO way, is the only way.

Re:Stop Complaining

[AceM2]

Yeah, I know.. I mean, everyone on slashdot hates patents.. They're so quick to judge, but I don't think they've even seen this one.

Re:Stop Complaining

[DrSkwid]

You could send pictures of Cowboy Neal in these :

Lip Service Baby Patents Bondage Pants Med
and these
Little Girl's Shoes, Buster Brown Patents

that would be threatening enough !

Re:Stop Complaining

[AceM2]

Ahh I was right! Patents are hated so much I get modded down for pointing out something with the same name ;p

another retarded patent suit....

[edrugtrader]

"computer system for management of resources;"

what would ANY computer system be if it DIDN'T "manage resources"?!

Re:another retarded patent suit....

[Anonymous Coward]

"Microsoft Windows 95"

Re:another retarded patent suit....

[Anonymous Coward]

My goodness, how ever did you think of that.

People, Bill Hicks is alive and well.

Re:another retarded patent suit....

[Bostik]

And on a bit narrower scope, practically every single, relatively modern FMS (flexible manufacturing system) house has been writing software that just exactly this. For years. Many years.

Tracking the current amount of goods, the throughput rate of said goods, transporting required goods to work locations from an automated warehouse, possibly even ordering needed goods automatically, ... - Hell, I have worked for one company that does software for this. It was never original, just practical application of automatics. The systems developed also managed some human resources and had hooks to billing systems.

Absolutely insane.

Re:another retarded patent suit....

[Temporal]

Not that I support NCR or anything, but in fairness, "computer system for management of resources" is just a title, not the complete invention. At least, my understanding is that the actual invention is far more specific, including specific methods for managing resources or whatever. The patent doesn't cover all computer systems which manage resources, just ones that do it in a certain way which they claim to have invented. This is why patent names always sound absurd -- people for some reason think that the name is the invention, when it's really just an abstract phrase that says something about what the invention does.

Again, I do NOT support NCR, nor do I believe that their patents are valid, so please don't flame me. I'm just trying to clarify.

I have patented GNAA posting

[Anonymous Coward]

YOUR ATTENTION PLEASE!!!

I have recently been awarded US Patent #6631337, "Method for promoting fictitious organizations through the early posting of solicitations on an electronic discussion board." From now on, all posts to Slashdot promoting the GNAA or a similar organization within 10 minutes of the story becoming visible to non-subscribers will require the payment of a $2,500 royalty fee per post. Payment shall be made by leaving cash, small denominations please, under the tree located 125 feet due south of the men's restroom at the rest area on I-80 eastbound in Pecos County, Texas.

Failure to make required royalty payments will result in appropriate legal action.

Re: I have patented GNAA posting

[YOU FAIL IT!]

Failure to make required royalty payments will result in appropriate legal action.

Dear Sir,

As you may know, "Failure" is a registered trademark of Failure Troll Industries Inc., of which I represent. Please cease and desist use of this word immediately. FAILURE to do so will result in legal action and possibly, you FAILING it big time in the courts.

Sincerely,

YOU FAIL IT!
Failure Troll Industries

Re:I have patented GNAA posting

[Anonymous Coward]

I-80 does not go through Texas...Where do I make payments now?

Why is it mostly web applications?

[fruey]

Someone could just patent the OS, or enough principles within, and be done with it. But that has not happened.

Why do companies get away with patenting stuff which is reasonably obvious? The whole thing reeks of ridiculousness to the extreme. It's like the nightmares of post dot-com boom stress disorder in flashback.

The scariest thing is this: if Yahoo! are not big enough to stand up to stupid patents about web application technology, then who is? Take the Internet away, and this patent suit would surely never have stood up. Real time POS stock checking, is it only NCR that do this? I think not...

Re:Why is it mostly web applications?

[Anonymous Coward]

Because people at the patent office are retards who don't know obvious things about the principles on which Internet works. They really deserve to be shot.

Re:Why is it mostly web applications?

[dukerobillard]

The scariest thing is this: if Yahoo! are not big enough to stand up to stupid patents about web application technology, then who is?

Microsoft, maybe? What we need is some loonie with a patent to sue Microsoft and refuse to settle (that's where the loonie part comes in :->). Microsoft might have enough money and legislators to bring the system down.

Re:Why is it mostly web applications?

[kaisa_sosey]

The scariest thing is this: if Yahoo! are not big enough to stand up to stupid patents about web application technology, then who is?

Maybe they have their own stupid patents waiting to be "used" one day. I think this is the main reasons why big companies pay for it. They have to be nice to each other because that's the only way to make a buissness with this crap. If they pay each other today will let us pay tomorrow.

I just don't get it...

[little1973]

As far as I know when somebody sues you and he/she lost against you then he/she also has to pay (to a certain ammount decided by the court) for your lawyer in many countries. In such a case as this you may not have to pay in advance to your lawyer, because the lawyer knows you can't lose this ridiculous case and he can get his money from the plaintiff.

Why does it not work this way in the USA?

Re:I just don't get it...

[glwtta]

In such a case as this you may not have to pay in advance to your lawyer, because the lawyer knows you can't lose this ridiculous case and he can get his money from the plaintiff.

There are a lot of ifs and mays in that reasoning. As far as I know it is fairly unusual for the judge to order the defendant attorney fees to be paid by the losing party, especially when the dispute is between companies. Furthermore, it is not at all obvious that they would win this, more ridiculous suits have been won (probably even by Yahoo itself). Win or lose, court battles are still orders of magnitude more expensive then settling; especially in these cases where the suing company wants a settlement to establish precedent, and make sure that the settlement terms aren't too burdening. In such a scenario the only reason left to fight would be on principle, and you'll find that American companies (as in most of the world) aren't that great in that arena.

Re:I just don't get it...

[Anonymous Coward]

In general, there is the "American Rule" and the "English Rule" when it comes to attorney fees. Under the "American Rule", each side pays their own cost of litigation. Under the "English Rule" the prevailing party is entitled to reimbursement of all reasonable costs and expenses, including attorney fees. When it comes to frivolous lawsuits, the "English Rule" is a major deterrent, whereas the "American Rule" is a matter of wallet. This distinction no doubt accounts for the plethora of lawsuits in the U.S.

Re:I just don't get it...

[dukerobillard]

The negative outcome of that kind of rule is that individuals will never dare to sue big companies, because losing would bankrupt them.

Sometimes, a lawsuit is a good thing, and this might prevent good lawsuits.

Re:I just don't get it...

[Anonymous Coward]

especially in these cases where the suing company wants a settlement to establish precedent,...
They cannot establish a legal precedent by settling. More in the lines of scaring the rest of doing the same. But the first that has the resources to fight it, will take the patents down. A good idea is to have companies who form some kind of a union for common defense against such patents. Any ideas?

Remember!

[Anonymous Coward]

Nobody can patent mare sex!

US patent office

[lexcyber]

When are you people in the US going to have a revolution. When are you going to realize you are not going to be rich. You are not going to be the head of a large corporation. When are you going to wake up and understand that your goverment is taking you from the behind until you feel the nosebleed. Get our assed out of your tv sofa and overthrow your incompetent goverment. One million men march? Don't do anything good. 100 million men march will make you able to invade the goverment and behead the leaders. STAND UP FOR FREEDOM, REAL FREEDOM now - the freedom of the individual that is not focused on corporate freedom. Stop walking around the rich, make the rich pay and makeit better for the poor. Do it now! Stand up, walk out and start the revolution!

Re:US patent office

[Anonymous Coward]

Won't happen. The US citizens cheer when they hear that some military member of the US has shot dead a couple of foreign persons, believing this means that they are free people and that they have made other people free people as well.

In the meantime, they fail to see that they aren't free people themselves, and that the other people in the world don't appreaciate their efforts to free them.

US citizens aren't free, they are the prisoners of the capitalist dictatorship that they are proud of. When they consider that freedom, they should allow other people their own perceived freedom under different dictatorships as well.

Re:US patent office

[Anonymous Coward]

Great idea. You first.

Re:US patent office

[Goth Biker Babe]

Britain did, in the 17th Century. We chopped our King's head off. France did in the 18th Century. They also chopped their King's head off. Now Bush losing his head, the would be an interesting site.

Re:US patent office

[Anonymous Coward]

amen to this

they were at the start of the 20th C

[DrSkwid]

When Thomas Watson worked there they used all sorts of bully tactics to squash the competition.

Then the directors were to be thrown in jail but went on a big PR drive and raised money for US flood victims and avoided the slammer.

you can read about that here :
http://www.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thomas_J._Watson

He joined Computing-Tabulating-Recording Co which he changed to IBM. Watson foresaw the empire building of the Nazis and made a nice business model by having European census data collected by IBM ready for when the Nazi occupation arrived and leasing them Hollerith machines to process it. You didn't think they regimented the lives and deaths millions of people with pencil and paper now did you?

You can't read about that here :
http://www.watson.ibm.com/t_j_watson_history.ht ml

But you could try here :
http://www.edwinblack.com

These things seem so far away but we are still dealing with the consequences of these actions. I'm sure you all know someone who was in the fighting.
Millions of people were killed, many by virtue of having hole 12 punched in their card.

Census data had been given to previous government who mainly saw value in being able to manage their economy with real numbers. The new landlords used the data for whatever they liked and they liked killing people.

That's why I don't want my biometric data kept somewhere

It might sound daft but imagine in 100 years time when you are on the train to the deathcamp because "your grandfather clearly states his religion as "Jedi" in the 2001 census".

Because 1/4 Juden was all it took.

If that's not related to YRO I don't know what is.

Re:they were at the start of the 20th C

[Troed]

Thank you. That was one of the more inspiring posts I've seen on Slashdot.

Re:they were at the start of the 20th C

[Anonymous Coward]

Thank you, jew boy. Perhaps you would now like to extoll on the virtues of Roman occupation?

"Drop the case or we'll show them the pictures."

[DrSkwid]

guess I need some pictures to post here

will these do ?

http://www.hardlight.couk.com/purile/

Good luck finding infringers

[DrSkwid]

Like: computer bottling swiftly beer?

Unless you look in Japan I guess

Cut that crap! Where's the feelings?

[SharpFang]

Come on, give up on that shit! That thing misses the point and lacks more than half the fun! Try this and at best you get moral hangover.

Where's the whole foreplay? Where's precise describing of gaining her trust and building love between you two? Where are the tricks of finding secret places on her body, she loves caressed. Where's giving pleasure to HER?

Did you know you can drive a mare to orgasm by ONLY scritching her EAR?!
Do you know how wonderful it feels when she trusts you?
Can you read her feelings from her facial expression? Can you tell whether she's sad or annoyed?

"Limit her access to other horses though and see that she spends at
least 8-12 hours a day in the stall"
Seeesh. I hope she kicks and kills you if you do this! Horses are very sociable animals and limitng contacts between them is plain cruelty! The only way to overcome her drag to other horses is to give her enough love that she choses you as her alpha horse!

Only with true love built between you two you can reach trully relaxing and deep relationship and real depth of feelings, for which sex is just culmination, just creating the last missing link between you two.

Don't be a dumb bestialist. Be a responsible zoophile.

(Yes, I know I'm risking my karma whore bonus by not posting this anonymously. But this needs to be said, because some people here misunderstood the principles behind this all)

RIP

[CuppaJoe]

Uh, wait a minute. So basically, NCR just successfully patented the internet? Wasn't Al Gore smart enough to do that when he invented the thing to begin with?

Re:RIP

[Anonymous Coward]

"Wasn't Al Gore smart ...."

Ha! Ha! Ha! Ha! Ha! Ha! Ha! Ha! Ha! Ha! Ha! Ha! Ha! Ha! Ha! Ha! Ha! Ha! Ha! Ha! Ha! Ha! Ha! Ha! Ha! Ha! Yeah! Fur-Sur!

... ad absurdum

[the bluebrain]

I always wonder whether it wouldn't be possible to demonstrate the absurdity of the system in a "real-world" way.

The point it that things are being patented that contain no innovation and require no research to develop. Sometimes they're not even developed at all, but still patented - just wild ideas.

Now it you look at the free software environment, there's tons of development going on all the time, including some substantial innovation - but hardly any of it registers on the economic "IP screen". The best one can hope for is that it can be used as prior art to shoot down some particularly silly patent.

To shortcut the argument: imagine the FSF or some such organisation going up to MS, SCO et al and being able to go "uh, no, dude, that's covered by such-and-such basic-tech-stupid-patent which belongs to - er, that would be us. Cash will be fine please. Repeatedly." - basically until it becomes clear to every last one of them that the economic environment just isn't going to work like this.

It all breaks down at the point that it sucks to formulate the patents, shove them through the [$laywer]-filter, have them registered etc. etc., and defend them. Plus, it costs a bit. And no, I'm not offering myself as a volunteer.

Ah, well.

Re:... ad absurdum

[imadork]

There are a lot of absurd patents out there. Three that I can think of off the top of my head are:

• A patent on swinging sideways on a swing

• A patent on entertaining a cat with a laser pointer

• A patent on ... um ... entertaining a lady in a hottub. This one I believe is owned by Penn Jilette, of Penn and Teller fame.

These are all things that should be obvious to anyone with a pulse, and yet they all got patented. The system seems broken, doesn't it?

These are all bona-fide US patents. I would look up the information, but I'm at work, I'm an engineer, and we're not allowed to search for patents over the Internet at work (seriously)!

Companies Behaving Badly

[Anonymous Coward]

What sort of moral foundations are behind so many of these companies today? Can they even be considered moral entities? I'm at a loss as to how to quantify the behavior I've seen the past few years with all the patenting, compromising government with bribes, outsourcing, and overall sleaze.

Animals at best. Monsters even.

If a city had wild and dangerous animals wandering the streets, they would waste no time addressing the problem. Why is it that these powerful creatures allowed to perform intellectual, legal, monetary, and diplomatic harm to the US without any action being taken?

They're becoming mad dogs, doing harm to all they touch while crying out the whole time "We must remain profitable."

Well, that raises an interesting question:

If a corporation pays little or no taxes and refuses to employ Americans, does it really matter to the United States if they remain profitable or not?

Time to have a good look at some of these mad dogs and seeing just how much they deserve government contracts, tax exemptions, and other little perks.

If they want to dump Americans and not contribute to the economy, lets dump them. What harm could it do to get rid of a few leeches? A little bit of political pressure, get rid of a handful, that's all that would be needed. the rest would fall into line. Just like how the IRS targets high profile tax evaders and the RIAA targets the rich kids.

I know IBM is kind of popular around here. I kind of liked them myself until recently. But 3 million outsourced jobs? FUCK YOU IBM. You evict that many people form their jobs and that's kinda mass murder. The pain of 3 million people out of work. If all of them cried out at the same time you could probably hear them clearly from coast to coast, no matter where you were at.

There's an undertone of barbarism to all this. Brutal and cold hearted people who could give a fuck what happens to the rest of America so long as they get their golden parachute and stock options.

Corporations are given a lot of responsibility and power in this country. And in the course of the past 5 years alone, we've seen scandals that stretch the imagination from just about every sector. A bunch of evil children running amok with the keys to the nation.

Re:Companies Behaving Badly

[Eric Ass Raymond]

But 3 million outsourced jobs? FUCK YOU IBM. You evict that many people form their jobs and that's kinda mass murder.

Bollocks. And where does it say that you have the right to a job - in particular to the same job you've held previously? The primary function of a corporation is to thrive financially and generate wealth for the society. If outsourcing is a realistic alternative, then that's what should be done. If it does not, there'll be soon no jobs for anyone. Better 3 million outsourced jobs so that at least some may stay.

There is no obligation for anyone to start a business. It's voluntary. Jobs are created as a positive side effect but corporations are under no obligation to provide SECURE jobs.

I am 32 and my job is on the line every 6 months and I'm not complaining. If my employer can't afford to pay me, there is no point in complaining. I don't have any expectations that I'll be working here in 24 months - but then again I rather like it that way.

Planning for the inevitable period of unemployment, stashing away money for a bad day and learning new skills outside the scope of my daily job keeps me sharp. I like being sharp, versatile and not getting too comfortable with my life.

I shudder when I think of people who think they have their life worked out at 25. They've got a degree, a secure job, a wife/husband, an idyllic house in suburbia, a car and 2.5 kids who are nice, clean and obedient and love you very, very much. All the goals they set themselves when they were 16. Nothing to look forward to? No unpredictability? No change. No growth. No improvement. Just living without being alive.

Re:Companies Behaving Badly

[Alioth]

> But 3 million outsourced jobs? FUCK YOU IBM.

IBM doesn't even employ 3M people - you're not even in the same order of magnitude. If they outsource 3M jobs, they are *employing* an extra 2.75M people. Sounds like it'd be good for the world as a whole.

Re:Companies Behaving Badly

[budgenator]

If a corporation pays little or no taxes and refuses to employ Americans, does it really matter to the United States if they remain profitable or not?
Well since the majority of the stockholders are americans who are paying taxes, yes. Remember individuals almost always pay a higher rate than corps do. Also more and more, companies are becoming commodities, consider this, workers from sub-contractors, company a building subs, company b doing finals, company c final packaging an another doing distibuting; the board of directors, and the pres and VP's all metting via internet chat.

And in the course of the past 5 years alone, we've seen scandals that stretch the imagination from just about every sector. A bunch of evil children running amok with the keys to the nation. Can't agrue about that, what children need is displine, maybe if the IRS would over turn the expenses for companies not being run as a "going concern", the added taxes, interest and penalties would get the little kiddies attention. It also seems that accounting fraud is basicaly end of company for all involved.

Re:Companies Behaving Badly

[NickAtNite]

Sounds like Scope Creep to me!

Re:Companies Behaving Badly

[Anonymous Coward]

Bollocks. And where does it say that you have the right to a job - in particular to the same job you've held previously?

Where did I say that? I

The primary function of a corporation is to thrive financially and generate wealth for the society. If outsourcing is a realistic alternative, then that's what should be done. If it does not, there'll be soon no jobs for anyone. Better 3 million outsourced jobs so that at least some may stay.

If a company doesn't pay taxes and refuses to hire Americans, how are they generating wealth for society? Keep in mind that unemployed people cannot afford to be shareholders.

There is no obligation for anyone to start a business. It's voluntary. Jobs are created as a positive side effect but corporations are under no obligation to provide SECURE jobs.

We have a situation in the US where companies incorporate offshore, don't pay taxes, and don't hire Americans. Companies like this aren't really contributing to the system in any meaningful way except as parasites. Even worse they present a powerful lobby to make the host country divert resources to them instead of legitimate businesses and taxpayers.

I am 32 and my job is on the line every 6 months and I'm not complaining. If my employer can't afford to pay me, there is no point in complaining. I don't have any expectations that I'll be working here in 24 months - but then again I rather like it that way.

Oh man, your job is on the line every six months. You're a real trooper. Sounds pretty rough. Looks around at all the people fighting like rats for a shitty wal-mart job.

Planning for the inevitable period of unemployment, stashing away money for a bad day and learning new skills outside the scope of my daily job keeps me sharp. I like being sharp, versatile and not getting too comfortable with my life.

Are you sharp and versatile enough to learn to live on 3,000 a year? That's what you will soon be competing with. And you what? If you could somehow live on that, they don't want you anyway.

I shudder when I think of people who think they have their life worked out at 25. They've got a degree, a secure job, a wife/husband, an idyllic house in suburbia, a car and 2.5 kids who are nice, clean and obedient and love you very, very much. All the goals they set themselves when they were 16. Nothing to look forward to? No unpredictability? No change. No growth. No improvement. Just living without being alive.

You're preaching from a pretty soft place compared to a lot of the people who are reading your post. You got it /easy/ right now, and yet you preach to all of us about how to live in hard times. You come back when you've applied at Wal-Mart a couple times and start missing car and house payments. We'll see how preachy you are then.

And your time is gonna come, just like it did for the rest of us.

Re:Companies Behaving Badly

[Anonymous Coward]

that's correct.The site I got that from had bad numbers. IBM is not outsourcing 3 million. Only has 150,000 or so domestic employees.

Re:Companies Behaving Badly

[alleycat0]

>where does it say that you have the right to a job

I may not have a *right* to a job, but i certainly have an *obligation* to work - check the latest regulations regarding eligibility for social services...

Re:Companies Behaving Badly

[Anonymous Coward]

Well since the majority of the stockholders are americans who are paying taxes, yes. Remember individuals almost always pay a higher rate than corps do.

Consider what sort of system these companies are displacing. Finding themselves in an environment where it's profitable to abandon America, companies are doing just that. They're abandoning ship. Don't want to fully participate in the system, just want to play a limited and specific role like some spoiled brat that never learned to play well with the other kids. They want the best of both worlds and the only part of them we get to witness is the asshole because we get nothing good from their cozy arrangements. Fuck them.

Also more and more, companies are becoming commodities, consider this, workers from sub-contractors, company a building subs, company b doing finals, company c final packaging an another doing distibuting; the board of directors, and the pres and VP's all metting via internet chat.

Kind of like Nike?

Working as an engineer?

[Rogerborg]

Start taking law courses at night school. Now.

Re:Working as an engineer?

[digtl88]

Taking law classes is the best way to protect yourself when it comes to issues like this.

Re:Working as an engineer?

[moncyb]

What is the point? No matter what you do, you will be subject to bogus patents and absurd agency regulations. It is getting to the point where it is impossible to follow all the rules and avoid (or pay royalties for) patents. Even if you represent yourself, you will lose a major portion of your life in the court defending against the "a means of trasportation by putting one leg in front of the other" patents.

A better solution would just do business on the black market. Yeah, sure, you might be killed or put in prison, but is it any worse than spending the majority of your life in court? At least you'll have some resemblance of freedom.

This has to be why the Russian mafia is so strong. When honest people are pushed down by a bureaucratic mess. When law abiding citizens may be jailed because they didn't let thieves steal from them. They have little choice but to turn to crime.

Re:Working as an engineer?

[Rogerborg]

I didn't mean become an engineer who knows the law, I mean become a lawyer. All the engineering jobs are moving to India anyway. In twenty years, we'll be a nation of lawyers, politicians (I know that's redundant) and towel boys.

Re:Working as an engineer?

[moncyb]

Even so, how will becoming a lawyer turn out any different? If there are only lawyers, politicians and "towel boys" (whatever they do ;-), then none of the essential services will be done. I don't see contracting out our legal services to other countries as a viable option--they'll have their own lawyers (and probably decent laws so they don't need many). Politicans can't be contracted out at all...well unless they are being paid to betray their country. Towel boys? Let's see them compete with a $0.05/hr Asian towel boy!

Perhaps if conquering soldiers are put into the mix, you can have such an economy. Maybe this is Dubya's plan, but I don't really think we want to go there. ;-)

Maybe your suggestion was just a joke? Someone moderated it as funny. At any rate, I don't see your suggestion as any sort of solution.

An idea..

[MoOsEb0y]

Someone should patent a "systematic way of scanning peer to peer networks for the purpose of obtaining evidence for use in copyright litigation". Then we'd just sue the RIAA/MPAA whenever they use our patented method :)

time for change

[Bruha]

Software patents are bad ideas all around. It will not be long before some idiot is awarded a patent for A + B = C it seems. Maybe it's time for a SEC investigation into the patent office to check for bribery and other criminal actions.

It would be better for companies to defend their products as innovative, not the functions within them that make things work. Disney has done very well with copyright laws instead of resorting to patenting the process of stuffing winnie the poo dolls.

Re:time for change

[EvilTwinSkippy]

The next version of Civilization is going to include a wonder known as the "US Patent and Trademark Office." Basically every technology you discover blocks anyone else from the benefits of the technology, even if they had discovered it already, or you simply stole it.

The problem is the gold required to maintain it is atrocious, and your corruption rate goes through the roof.

Re:time for change

[JeThR0]

Not necessarily a bad idea - they should make them prove it by creating the software. That would stop a lot of this crap.

Bread and Circuses

[heironymouscoward]

This story has a nasty, nasty feel about it.
NCR is the company where Thomas J. Watson Sr. learned the dirty tricks he needed to found and run IBM. By 1920, NCR had already perfected the techniques of capturing customers and smashing competitors (often literally, with sticks and stones). IBM did the same in a slightly genteeler way, Microsoft did the same a generation later.

So NCR is back and has cornered one of the few Internet success stories. Next, Google and Amazon? The patents appear to be so basic that they apply to every commercial web site, nay, every commercial software application.

Evil, dangerous, and cynically positioned to take advantage of other people's hard work and sacrifice.

Why does this kind of parasitical behaviour go unpunished? Because the ones doing it are part of the system, not outside it. Not only does the system allow this kind of abuse, it has pretty much evolved to support and protect it.

Conclusion: the modern political body is corrupt and survives by manipulating public opinion. Nothing new... two millenia after the fall of the Roman Empire, we are treated in the same way as the emperors treated their subjects.
Give them bread, and they won't complain.
Give them circuses, and they won't notice.
Give them security, and they won't fight.
Human nature lets such things happen, for a while. But eventually it revolts and the further it has been pushed one way, the more aggressive and reactionary the revolt.

If you want my website, you're going to have to prise it from my cold, dead hands.

Re:Bread and Circuses

[Anonymous Coward]

"Give them circuses, and they won't notice."

I think the plural of circus is circii...

Re:Bread and Circuses

[JeThR0]

Our political body is corrupt because it's become a career and not "serving the people". NCR is just exercising there rights. You really can't blame them. It's our (Americans) fault. People don't get involved so bad laws happen. As I've said before - companies should be made to come up with a prototype before they can patent it. If a company cannot prove they had a prototype then the patent should be revoked.

Re:Bread and Circuses

[Anonymous Coward]

amen to that

Re:Bread and Circuses

[greenrd]

As I've said before - companies should be made to come up with a prototype before they can patent it. If a company cannot prove they had a prototype then the patent should be revoked.

Um, I think you're missing the point. The problem with most of these type of patents (haven't looked at these specifically, but I'm assuming), is not that they are so hard to implement that the "inventors" are too incompetent to implement them. No, the main problem is the reverse - they are too easy to implement, and hence are obvious - which should prevent them becoming accepted at the patent office, but doesn't.

Companies have to spend large sums defending themselves against such patents and sometimes find it cheaper to settle, even when it doesn't make "logical sense". It seems clear to me that software patents do far more harm than good, on balance.

Re:Bread and Circuses

[kcbrown]

Human nature lets such things happen, for a while. But eventually it revolts and the further it has been pushed one way, the more aggressive and reactionary the revolt.

Except now, that's no longer an option. Because the people who are in control of the system wield weapons far more powerful than anything mankind has ever seen, and the people who would revolt simply don't have them and can't get them in enough numbers to matter -- they're too expensive and it's too easy to control their distribution.

At least during the Roman times (and the American Revolution, for that matter), the firepower of the average person was roughly equivalent to the firepower of the average soldier, certainly within an order of magnitude. That means that at least people could win against their oppressors with sheer numbers if nothing else. But today the balance is between hundreds and millions to one in favor of the average soldier, depending on which weapons you want to include in the balance. Your average group of people with handguns or maybe even assault rifles is simply no match for a soldier with artillery and air support, and we haven't even talked about nukes yet.

That means that once the bad guys have control over the governments around the world (we're really close to that now -- look at how much "influence" the U.S. has over the nations in the rest of the world), such that changes from the inside are essentially impossible due to the selection criteria used and the internal inertia involved, the situation can last for many thousands of years. You can't get change from the outside when there is no outside, and for the first time in history that situation (no "outside" to worry about) is actually achievable.

This is why I think humanity is going to be totally screwed, and that we're likely to see this occur within the century.

It's part of a larger scheme

[xyote]

or diabolical conspiracy if you must. I was trying to figure what was going on with all this outsourcing and stuff. If you can move companies around and staff them with commodity workers and infrastructure, what exactly is a company? What prevents anyone else with sufficient capital from doing exactly the same thing and becoming an instant competitor and displacing the first company in the marketplace? The answer is IP and increasingly, business model IP.

It used to be a company's business model was largely embodied in its personnel. Knowledge in that form had a lot of inertia in setting up and tranferring, so it prevented anyone else from becoming instant competitors. But that way of doing business is largely incompatible with commodity workers, hence the new model.

An added benefit from the company's point of view is that it solves the problem that figured in Neil Stephenson's Snow Crash, workers taking home the knowledge of their jobs. Now it doesn't matter what you know since it's illegal for you to use that knowledge. Of course it sucks if you are a displaced worker and that is the only knowledge that you have.

LOL! MOD PARENT UP! (n/t)

[Anonymous Coward]

lameness filter

Patent strangeness

[Anonymous Coward]

NCR spokesman John Hourigan would not comment on the settlement details except to say, "We vigorously enforce our patents."

Did you ever notice that when you rearrange the letters in "NCR spokesman John Hourigan" you get "shrine go jump on hanson rack"...

I am too tired

[Anonymous Coward]

I am too tired to get any work done.

Anyone else feeling the same?

Let's all walk out of the office - NOW!

Re:I am too tired

[thbigr]

I hear you brother

Re:I am too tired

[Anonymous Coward]

You fucking freeloaders. Think of your corporation!

Get on the bandwagon

[Moderation abuser]

I have to say that this sounds like a great way of making money.

Generate a bunch of very broad ideas, get the patent office to grant patents on them and then contact all the big web based companies and offer to license the Intellectual Property to them, or else.

Tell me again why everyone isn't doing it?

Re:Get on the bandwagon

[Anonymous Coward]

because its very hard and expensive for the average joe to file a patent. They are reserved aparently for big companies only..

because to sue a big company you need cash..

so this is a good way for big companies to stay in power and chash in..

Re:Get on the bandwagon

[shadowbearer]

"Tell me again why everyone isn't doing it?"

Probably because most people have at least some moral fortitude.

SB

Re:Get on the bandwagon

[binarytoaster]

because its very hard and expensive for the average joe to file a patent. They are reserved aparently for big companies only..
What are you talking about? My stepfather just patented a new remote controlled airplane design (shameless plug: here) not too long ago. I can't imagine it cost more than $500 at the MOST.

because to sue a big company you need cash..
This would be a bit more like the reason.

BTW, you've just responded to complete sarcasm. Congratulations. I could put YHBT here, but the thing is, the original poster wasn't even trolling.

Re:Get on the bandwagon

[binarytoaster]

Wow, I suck. I didn't even do a plug right.

It's supposed to be www.unicornventures.com but I'm stupid and don't know how to do HTML tags. :P

Lets find prior art and bury this bs

[the_archivist]

heres a link to the patent for yr interest. Read the patent

New business practices...

[silverhalide]

People should just quit hiring attornies and start hiring assasins instead. When someone tries to sue you for letting people login to your website, have them killed. Problem solved! Probably cheaper than a lawyer too. What does a typical assasin run these days?

Re:New business practices...

[Anonymous Coward]

I hear ya, but...

If I have a dumb patent that was legally obtained from USPO, and you reject licencing it, should I hire a hit man to 'make you an offer you can't refuse'?

that said, you might have a point for preventing the people from getting those patents in the first place. Make them publish the patent application, if somebody finds previous art or proves non-originality, or whatever, but the company still pushes with the application, then your idea becomes quite relevant. and cheaper than filing a suit to prove how dumb the patent really is.

patent office are retards

[budgenator]

Yes things would be a lot better if they had someone like Einstein working there or something.

Seriously, the problem with software patents is anyone can look at them, say my evil competitor, has been granted a software patent. I can tell my R&D dept to take evil competitors patent and apply for patents on every concievable extention to it. The result would be after evil has been shiiping upgraded product for a year, my patent applied for becomes patent granted and I crush evil corp with litigation and become Megaevil corp.

Re:patent office are retards

[SharpFang]

But if one person with common sense at the patent office had ANY idea what the patents is about, they could just deny "No way, this is in common use already and not thanks to your company. You can't patent using computers to store phone numbers.

Utah

[Anonymous Coward]

I betcha the Capony group is lloking at them reallyclosely right now.

That's exactly what Government is for...

[Anonymous Coward]

Great, let's propose MORE government to solve a problem that was created by government in the first place.

Seriously, it's probably time for a grass-roots push for a Congressional Inquisition (oooo, he said "Inquisition" and even capitalized it!!!!) into the patent crisis that is contributing great harm to our economy.

Not Disclosed

[Anonymous Coward]

There are some significant antitrust issues related to the non diclosure of patent settlements (although probably not in this particular case).

Settlements between competitors in patent cases raise important and sensitive antitrust issues. The issues are important because patent settlements may create or maintain monopoly in technology and innovation markets and may also effectuate a monopoly or cartel in a related goods markets. Antitrust risks are highlighted by the fact that, absent the patent rights, patent settlement agreements may be per se antitrust violations. Further, anticompetitive patent settlements unlike most antitrust conspiracies are enforceable in court,and by that means can prevent the cartel cheating that is the bane of cartels. Thus, the antitrust risk that a settlement agreement may operate as a disguised cartel has long been recognized.

The antitrust enforcement issues are sensitive because patent settlements can also promote efficiencies, resolving patent disputes that might otherwise block or delay valuable invention. Settlements can reduce the expense and delay that patent litigation often entails. They enable risk averse business firms to avoid litigation uncertainty and variance of outcome. These risks include the unjustified loss of patent rights if a court erroneously holds the patents invalid. Finally, patent settlements can promote productive technology interchange within industries (at least for non-core technologies).

Thus, antitrust screening of patent settlements has an important role to play, identifying antitrust risks and balancing efficiency benefits. However, effective antitrust scrutiny is constrained by several factors. First, since the anticompetitive risk is most acute when patents are weak, invalid or not infringed, any precise identification of the antitrust risk would requires assessment of patent validity and scope. But these issues can only be fully resolved through litigation, and settlement precludes litigation. The alternative of assessing probable validity and infringement in an antitrust proceeding fails to provide a tractable or predictive legal standard.

Antitrust scrutiny of patent settlements is further constrained by the fact that patent settlements are not disclosed to enforcement agencies. To be sure, the Patent Act requires filing of interference settlements and collateral agreements with the PTO. But it appears doubtful that the PTO can police disclosure of collateral agreements and the Department of Justice lacks standing to enforce compliance.The absence of effective disclosure requirements for patent settlements stands in sharp contrast to disclosure provisions for mergers, R&D joint ventures and innovation-related production joint ventures all of which require notification of the transactions to the antitrust agencies. Finally, defendants in settlement cases benefit from two legal presumptions that while legitimate in themselves, impede antitrust challenge: a patent is presumed to be valid and courts have frequently declared that patent settlements are to be encouraged.

Ignore the patents.

[Anonymous Coward]

I think all this patent stuff has gotten out of hand. I am programmer, not a lawyer. I don't to be a lawyer either, I just want to create something that people can use.

So, we should just colletively ignore these common sense patents.If you get "caught" using a stupid patent and can't fight it, just ignore their letter to the effect and continue. What's the worse that can happen? Get sent to jail? Take a portion of your profits?

When something is broken and no one is listening, you stop playing by the rules.

It doesn't cost much to threaten a law suit.

[Moderation abuser]

It's quite clear that the corporations would rather fold than actually go to court so all you need is lawyer who'll work on commission, and frankly, with the numbers of lawyers being churned out of American universities I doubt that'd be a problem.

I reckon there's a huge business opportunity being missed.

RETRACTION ON THE 3 MILLION IBM JOBS

[Anonymous Coward]

I got some info from a bad source, sorry. They didn't state how many will be outsourced and only have about 150,000 domestic employees.

Or, you could benefit financially

[Moderation abuser]

And at the same time bury the current patent system and it's abusers in their own bullshit.

Lots of patents, on everything. I mean, who cares what it is as long as it's nice and broad and you can threaten a lawsuit against numpties like Barnes & Noble, Amazon, Yahoo, Ebay etc.

If you play the numbers, it's clear that most of them will fold and license the "technology" from you. That'll fund more patents and more lawsuits.

At some point it'll all break and they'll have to reform the patent office and/or the law.

Which patent?

[Anonymous Coward]

No mention of the patent number(s) by anyone. Not the article, not the submitter, not the comments.

NCR has 2584 U.S. patents, 82 about managing something. Some of the 10 patents involved in the case might be these to Siefert, but it's hard to tell. Your guess is as good as mine.

How can anyone make an intelligent comment about what is covered or whether they're invalid if we don't know which patents we're talking about?

Re:Which patent?

[Halo1]

Yes, it's a bit late, but the patent numbers are mentioned in NCR's press release.

does any of it matter?

[Sivaram_Velauthapill]

The question is... does any of it matter if an authoratarian govt comes to power? Sure the record keeping will facilitate the process but even without it, you will be targetted. For instance, let's say I'm a fascist who believes that everyone born on the 20th of every month must be killed. Having records of people will surely help me. But even if I didn't have the records, I'll come and kill you. In fact, fascism (such as Nazism) has shown that people will be killed as long as doubt exists. For instance, a lot of non-Jew/non-Communist/non-homosexual/etc were killed simply because there was a dispute as to whether the person belong to the cateogry or not. So what's the difference?

NOTE: I'm not arguing in favour of govt collecting information. All I'm saying is that your argument against it is weak...

Self policing gov? / Disney is not innovative

[moncyb]

Maybe it's time for a SEC investigation into the patent office to check for bribery and other criminal actions.

You think you'll get the government to watch over itself? Good luck. Sometimes it happens, but not often. I may be good to try, but I wouldn't bank on it.

It would be better for companies to defend their products as innovative, not the functions within them that make things work. Disney has done very well with copyright laws...

Yeah, but look at Disney's use of trademarks. Look up trademarks for "Winnie the Pooh" at the uspto.gov site. Disney owns several. Just try to use Winnie the Pooh for almost anything without getting sued by Disney. All this, and as far as I can tell, Disney had nothing to do with the creation of those characters. Also note the dates. The books were published between 1926-1928, by my math the copyright on the last book expired in 1956 (copyrights lasted a max of 28 years then, correct?). Disney started using Pooh in their cartoons at about 1966, no doubt without paying royalties.

Everywhere I've seen, Disney doesn't innovate much at all, they just rehash--while doing everything they can to avoid paying royalties, yet they do everything they can to expand copyright law and DRM to defend their unorigional work. So no one is able to reap the same benefits from their works that they did from others.

I don't think it is bad to rehash old works, nor do I think it's bad to use works from the public domain, but what Disney does is hypocritical and fascist.

that's not my argument

[DrSkwid]

My premise is that they've killed us before they'll kill us again.

That innocuous submission comes back to bite you.

That the modern face of business is only a few phone calls away from crushing you.

Mechanised warfare moved from swords to stocks & shares.

The war against the people never stops raging.

Faced with annihilation we get our comfort from apathy.

"BE WARNED: THE NATURE OF YOUR OPPRESSION IS THE AESTHETIC OF OUR ANGER"

hehe didn't mean to go off like that but when I do, I like it

Interview the US Patent Office

[tqft]

Any votes for a /. interview the USPTO and see what they have to say?

... revealed

[StikyPad]

1. Patent teleportation
2. Wait X number of years
3. ...
4. Profit!!! ... == File a lawsuit.