Slashdot Mirror
ABIT's Secure IDE Motherboard
Frank Caviggia writes "The Inquirer has a story about ABIT's spiffy new IC7-MAX3 motherboard. Apparently, this motherboard has a feature called 'Secure IDE,' which is marketing-speak for hardware-based encryption ... ABIT goes on to claim that 'Secure IDE' 'will keep government supercomputers busy for weeks and will keep the RIAA away from your Kazaa files.' Pretty bold claims for a motherboard maker ..."
SecureIDE connects to your IDE hard disk and has a special decoder; without a special key
So what they are saying is their algorithm is proprietary and is therefore likely insecure? I thought people stopped believing in/hyping security by obscurity years ago... Or maybe that's just wishful thinking? Hell, for all we know they could be using xor encryption or some such crap. I don't trust any encryption algorithm that I can't see.
while ((c = getc(unencrypted)) != EOF) { if (!*cp) cp = "key\0"; c ^= *(cp++); putc(c,encrypted); }
3y3 y4m l33t, c4tch m3 1f y0u c4n RIAA. heh.
In addition, if there is no key does that mean there is no local security? If someone just took your whole rig mobo and all would they be able to access your files since whatever algorithm they are using must be embedded in the board?
I can see the spooks at NSA laughing.
Visualize the world of wine
and will keep the RIAA away from your Kazaa files
That has to be one of the biggest marketing lies I've ever heard since 'Win98 doesn't crash...' as the PS/2 mouse was plugged in...
"Some things have to be believed to be seen." - Ralph Hodgson
Gestapo Internal Memo:
Remember people, when we break into homes with search warrants, you need to take the MOTHERBOARD now too!
Correct me if I am wrong, but applications can still access unencrypted data; doesn't that mean numerous hacks would still work? 4ndr3w Scientists have been proven wrong time and time again -- by other scientists
Nothing is ever completely secure, but I could see where this would help some. Genuinely a cool idea, but I'll wait a couple of years to see if it matures some first.
US Democracy:The best person for the job (among These pre-selected choices...)
Secure IDE, says Abit, has a special decoder without a special key, and that means hard drives can "never be opened by anyone".
Then from the paragraph before: "... its Secure IDE technology will 'keep government supercomputers busy for weeks.'"
So it can never be opened by anyone except the government, which will require a few weeks to decrypt what's on the drive? Are they mixing a physical opening of the drive with reading the data on the drive itself?
Wouldn't that require some intelligence by the user? I mean like not sharing their file library? It's not like the RIAA can just go into people's homes and start busting open computers for pirated music.
Here's the bit on secure IDE:
For MAX3, the ABIT Engineers listened to users who were asking for information security. SecureIDE connects to your IDE hard disk and has a special decoder; without a special key, your hard disk cannot be opened by anyone. Thus hackers and would be information thieves cannot access your hard disk, even if they remove it from your PC. Protect your privacy and keep anyone from snooping into your information. Lock down your hard disk, not with a password, but with encryption. A password can be cracked by software in a few hours. ABIT's SecureIDE will keep government supercomputers busy for weeks and will keep the RIAA away from your Kazaa files.
Now, when it says Lock down your hard disk, not with a password, but with encryption... that seems to me that there's a hardware key on the motherboard that prevents the HDD from being read in other machines.
Meaning... that instead of stealing just your hard drive, they have to steal the whole computer? =p
Either that, or there is a password in addition to that. It could probably be gotten around by flashing the BIOS, or just taking the CMOS battery out for a brief stint. Either way, no, I don't imagine the NSA is shaking in fear just now.
How many more comments like this will there be? If you click the stupid link, you see that you need a USB key each time you boot if you want to be able to decrypt the hard drive. They need the MB, the HD, and your key.
Until the user shares them with the world. Damn some people are stupid.
The RIAA isn't going after people because it finds files on their hard drive, it goes after people because it sees them sharing these files online, unencrypted. This technology is worthless against the RIAA in that respect.
Personal computers with built-in hardware encryption is going to make life hell for support technicians.
I mean, I like the idea. I just don't like the idea of having to deal with impenetrable security on top of everything else that I have to deal with when my little brother's friend fries his computer again and I have to slap a new HD or mobo etc in it.
There are some things about this that I like - the cooling systems look interesting, and as someone who's looking upgrade my old Win98 Game Box (that's about all Windows is used for with me these days), I can consider it.
But the encryption doesn't sell me, because it's really a limited use.
Assuming the machine is being used, and they is inside so you can access your data. You install an old version of Linux with an unpatched SSH client, and somebody root kits you. The encryption won't help you here - after all, the key is already used on the box so the motherboard can talk to the hard drive.
The only time encryption would be useful is when:
a) Somebody steals/appropriates the computer, and doesn't get the key. You destroy the key, and if this is a court case, you make sure there are no backups they can restore from.
b) that's about it.
I like the idea of encryption being on a laptop hard drive, and there's a USB key for it (I'm hoping the 10.3 version of OS X's user directory encryption is not just password/passphrase enabled, but lets you use a CD-Key, or something onto the Keychain file and you can be anal and put the Keychain file onto a USB key so it has to be inserted for the home directory to wirk). A laptop is more likely to be stolen and credit cards/passwords/sensitive company information (and if you're like me and work for a company who does Defense department contracts, that can be a big deal).
Otherwise, I'm not sure I fully see the "average" home use of this motherboard to protect from the RIAA finding out what files you have over the Internet, since the hard drive is already being decrypted to give that data over the network. Like I said earlier, it's only use is if the RIAA gets a court order, and you throw the key into the garbage diposal. (Which might get you held up in contempt of court or some such, and then you'll have to hope that Abit doesn't have a backup key of their own floating in their system somewhere.)
I could just be missing the point of the encryption other than a "gee whiz" feature - but that's just me.
52 Weeks, 52 Religions with John Hummel
By following these easy instructions, you too can encrypt your data and swap partitions with Loop-AES. (The instructions are for Linux From Scratch, but they worked fine on my Debian box.) This way, no unencrypted data ever touches the disk; even if your computer is stolen, the thief can't read your data.
Before everyone starts bitching with their collective "This can't work! How would it work!?! It's insecure!!" pablum, I offer this solution:
wait.
There will be more information in the weeks and months to come. Don't decry this as useless until you know what it actually is.
___________
That aside, this could be a case of "secure computing" working counter to many of the interests that originally pushed it. Sure, encrypted channels can be used to enforce DRM, but they can also be used to hide that cracked media when $badguy comes looking for it on your hard drive.
The DMCA can work for you just as it works for $badguy. That encrypted IDE is protecting -your- copyrighted intellectual property, after all.
GeekNights!
Late Night Radio for Geeks!
Encryption algorythms are sufficiently advanced that key management is the real issue: Trying to brute-force it can be very difficult, but finding out the private key (which makes decryption trivial) can often be relatively easy. So, even if they used reasonably strong encryption, chances are that they won't succeed at protecting the private keys.
However, I suspect that their encryption isn't really all that strong. Doing strong encryption at speeds necessary to sustain IDE transfers (up to 50 megabytes/second *per drive*) is fairly serious stuff, especially if you want to be able to do it at sufficiently low latencies. Hardware-encryption boards that truly do strong encryption at much slower speeds than that are pretty pricey, usually at least four figures.
steve
Oh, you're not stuck, you're just unable to let go of the onion rings.
I see a lot of people saying that they steal the motherboard then they can crack it, which while possible isn't entirely true. If you would read the information about the board you'd see it's a hardware dongle that stores the key information. Thus, if you buy a new mobo with secureIDE and have the same dongle you'll be able to read the data. It's that simple.
So rather than destroying the motherboard, you just need to store the USB key somewhere other than where the computer is. Pretty straight forward. You can't take the hard drive to another secureIDE computer and have it work without the USB key.
My Slashdot account is old enough to drink...
Actually, it seems to do 64bit DES and 128/192 bit Triple DES according to the chipset's manfucaturer Enova Technologies.
Here's a drive bay adapter by same, which uses an external key, I can't tell about the motherboard, though.
The IC7-MAX3 is tuned up and ready to rumble. With ABIT's Game Acceleration Technology, users have the choice of three performance modes: Turbo, Street Racer and F1 to boost performance up to 17%.
Ok, maybe it's not a marketing lie. But. How seriously can you take anything with the settings 'Turbo', 'Street Racer' and 'F1'?
Also, here's the key.
Not going to stop the RIAA from catching you (although they'd have difficulty decrypted the drive once they did I guess), but looks moderately useful for protecting a harddrive from theft. I'd love one on a laptop. If someone stole it in an airport or somesuch - at least they couldn't get my data without some effort.
I write code.
Hmm, don't mind me while I keep using a software solution...
/home on my laptop. Otherwise you're SOL...
: //loop-aes.sourceforge.net/loop-AES.README - see example 4
Loop-AES is trivially ease to set up under linux,
and you can have it require a GPG key etc that live on a USB keychain.
If you have my keychain, and you know the password, you can mount
http://sourceforge.net/projects/loop-aes/
http
Something you have and something you know...
Everyone ranting about how this is inherently stupid since the key is just on the motherboard should actually read the article and note that the key is actually going to be stored on a removable device of some sort. So the idea is you carry the key with you at all times and just plug it into the computer when you want to use it. When the key is not in the computer the data cannot be read.
Of course this still doesn't explain the silly Kazaa claims, however that is another issue altogether. In fact this whole thing seems kind of useless since if the government were to confiscate your computer or something you'd think they could just subpoena the key as well, and it does nothing to protect against hackers since the key has to be in your computer for you do use it. Turning it off when you're not using it would be just as effective. About the only thing this is good for is in case somebody steals your computer when you're away. But it could work for that.
Physics is good
- It has *nothing* to do with the motherboard, it is a card that connects between the IDE cable and the IDE drive. Like s separate card.
- It works with all OS, no drivers. You need to start from a blank disk though because everything is being encrypted/decrypted as it passes through (if you "decrypt" plaintext something it goes horribly wrong).
- The encryption is 40 bits which is really really weak. Same as DVDs for example (ok slightly FUD because CSS was a poor algorithm)
- You have an external keyring, which acts as your hardware key.
That being said, I really don't see the big use of this. It's only good if your disk is taken, they don't take the key and it's only protecting the information (disk is as good as ever if you remove the card and format it again). Of course if you have vital company/personal/military data on your disk I suppose that might be enough of a reason.Kjella
Live today, because you never know what tomorrow brings
according to the installation guide:
40-bit DES (US Data Encryption Standard) is adequate for general users
In much the same way that leaving the data un-encrypted is adequate for general users, I suppose.
There's another nice product there as well:
http://www.enovatech.net/html/ps_mobile.htm
It's a mobile HD rack with the key/encryption hardware built-into it. Sounds reasonably secure too. From the site:
- Real-time hardware based encryption with 1-1Gigabit per second throughput and zero performance degradation
- NIST Certified DES 64-bit and TDES 128/192-bit encryption engine
- Automatic transparent operation encrypts entire hard drive bit-by-bit, including Boot Sector and OS
- Portable X-Wall Secure Key for BIOS level user authentication and access control
- Operating System and software independent ; does not require device drivers
Sounds like a nice product. With bandwidth in the gigabit range, it isn't going to be a problem on any mechanical storage device.
Regular DES is pretty weak though... Triple DES is reasonably secure though, assuming those are actually the key-lengths shown, and not just marketingspeak. If the price is right, I could see this type of gear becoming quite popular.
Law enforcement would hate it though. Assuming they couldn't get ahold of the key before it was destroyed, they'd be TSOL as far as getting anything out of the drive.
N.
"Nothing strengthens authority so much as silence." - Charles de Gaulle
Looking at their user manual, and specs, here are some corrections to your post:
- No special motherboard needed. This thing plugs in between the ide cable and the driver.
- As with all encryption. Lose the key and you're the proud owner of a high tech paperweight. Not unique to this connector.
- I suspect they mention fdisk because it's commonly used. It's a transparent encryption system, so
card + drive = normal drive
They're just saying to reformat the drive after putting the adapter on.
- Any file system/operating system will do. "Device driver free" too. Again, they're just saying you have to start over.
Also worth noting:
- The encryption card can use an extension cable get the dongle to the outside of the case. So no, you don't have to pop the cover each time you walk away.
- Once you boot up, the key doesn't need to be in any more.
- They give you a backup key too.
You are checking your backups, aren't you?
It encrypts your data on the fly. Take the key away, now noone can mount /dev/porn.
Anything that restricts access to any data is DRM. That's why the slashbot reaction to the term is so moronic. Slashdot has DRM in the form of usernames and passwords, so I cant post as Perens or Carmack, and to make sure only subscribers get to see articles when first posted. A zip file with a password is "drm".
I don't need no instructions to know how to rock!!!!
Acting on tips from an anonymous source (*cough* RIAA), U.S. soldiers invaded the homes of many citizens at home and abroad looking for the ever elusive Saddam MP3 FileSharer and his evil co-hort Osama Stole'Music and thier cache of MMDs (MP3s of Mass Destruction).
President Bush re-iterated that the MMDs exist saying, "I know they out there, our intellegence agencies downloaded a few of them last night."
Within the hour, both the CIA and FBI bave both denied that MMDs were downloaded. They go on to say, "infact our servers were hacked and used as a MMD store by the suspected country music terrorist group "Al'abama" "
No comment has been released from the NSA. It is suspected they didn't hear the phone ring on account of the volume the MMDs were being played at the verify the MMDs were *IN FACT* MMDs.
Film at 11.
According to that diagram, the motherboard isn't involved at all, and the card attached to the harddrive and the external dongle does everything transparent to the motherboard.
Is ABIT just bundling a product with their motherboard here, and can it be bought elsewhere?
I'd like to see one of these with a key fob that has an auto-destruct button on it, like a tiny capsule of acid... Delivered with two dongles -- one you can put in a vault or destroy, depending on how you feel.
Regards,
--
Arthur Hagen
This is a bit offtopic, but I think it's valuable for anyone wanting to know about encryption - really GOOD encryption when someone's life/freedom may be on the line.
One of the biggest problems with regards to encryption (aside from snakeoil salesmen) is that if someone suspects/knows you're using encryption, they're going to try and get the key out of you. Either by legal means like locking you away in a hole for years until you make with the key, or just resorting to good old fashioned torture to make you cough up the info. Neither option is particularly appealing, so a rather smart solution to the problem was devloped.
Naturally, it's called "Rubberhose" (The website)
The gist of it is that you make a large container file (say, 1gb for example). Inside that container file, are many smaller container files, each one having their own encryption key. You'd have one container with moderate-level stuff that you could "give up" if forced, and another container with the "real good stuff" that you'd get imprisoned/killed if the badguys discovered it.
The interesting way that it works is that in order to get access to the "real good stuff", you need to input the keys to all of the other containers to both decrypt the containers in question, and to fully map the filesystem. No container knows about any other container, nor where it's data is stored inside the 1gb file. Of course the data isn't stored in contigious blocks, and the containers could be fragmented into millions of pieces interwoven with eachother. It's also impossible to "prove" by any means that another container even exists.
So you can open any container and see the info inside it, but all of the containers appear to utilize the entire 1gb of storage space. You never know that anything other than empty space exists in the drive.
It's kind of complex, and I may not have explained it all that well, so before jumping on me, please read up at the website.
It's absolutely elegant, although perhaps not currently easy enough to be utilized by the masses. Still, if I was going into hostile territory, this would be the first thing I got operational on my portable equipment.
N.
"Nothing strengthens authority so much as silence." - Charles de Gaulle
Possibly because software encryption kills performance?
AES ceratinly was designed with performance in mind. And it can be implemented efficiently on 8-bit and 32-bit general purpose architectures as well as dedicated hardware. What interests me even more is what mode of operation they are using. I'm researching in modes aimed at disk encryption. It certainly is more complicated than just using CBC and be done with that.
Now if all you wanted to do was ECB mode encryption of the disk, that could be done very efficient in hardware. With 512 byte sectors and 256 bit blocks, you would have 16 blocks per sector, which could be encrypted and decrypted in parallel by 16 independend AES circuits. But of course that is not particular secure.
I have designed a more secure encryption that uses a tree structure on the disk. And involves both hashing and symmetric and assymetric encryption. Obviously it does have a price in terms of disk space, memory requirements, and I/O efficiency. But you get impressive security properties.
I doubt ABIT have done any of that, because the customers probably only want encryption if they can get it for free. Besides it would be stupid anyway considering the ridiculously small key of just 40 bits as mentioned in the specification. They claim it is adequate for general users. I say it is adequate for anybody who doesn't need encryption.
Do you care about the security of your wireless mouse?
Please correct me if I screw something up here.
They said that the RIAA wouldn't be able to read the Kazaa files off your machine. Huh?
How does secure IDE do that?
Okay, you got WXP running. And you are running Kazaa, Real Player and whatever else. Obviously the encryption/decryption is done at the hardware level between the motherboard and the hard drive.
For this thing to have practical use to the general public it must be transparent to the OS.
Now the RIAA is getting information on people without invading peoples computers. They are using the Kazaa network and probably downloading MP3's just like anyone else. Then they look at the IP address and go from there.
I am just not seeing how secure IDE does anything to stop that.
The only way secure IDE would be helpful in the Kazaa situation is if it broke Kazaa.
As for the key.
I am not getting that at all. They are saying that it isn't password protected and it isn't a dongle.
It is hardware.
Well that sucks.
Now granted I have never had the privledge of having the FBI or the cops bust into my house and confiscate my PC.
But I seriously doubt they would waste there time cracking the case and taking the hard drives. Minnimal they would take the tower.
Hell they would confiscate everything. Consider all the stupid people that hide there passwords by tapeing them under the keyboard, taking your monitor might pay off for them.
So if they have the tower anyways then I ask again, how is secure IDE helping?
The only case I can see is if I decided a hard drive is bad and threw it away.
And I'll level with ya, when I do that I destroy the hard drive anyways. I don't need encryption. I pull the tape off the side and expose the breather whole. Then I take a screw driver and jam it in there real hard. I make damn sure that I scratch up both sides of the platters. I also try to knock the heads off.
I argue that my way is better then encryption anyways. It might take weeks for supercomputers to decrypt there encryption, but I would love to see a solution to the mess that I make with a screwdriver.
Not only will it not keep government supercomputers out for weeks, it won't keep the RIAA out of your disk for weeks if they confiscate it. Besides, the RIAA can subpoena you to make you hand them the key dongle. Also, this is only useful against people who have physical possession of your disk when your machine isn't running - if your machine's running with the disk mounted, it's no different than a regular disk, so querying your Kazaa file-sharer will work just fine, or running a search program on your machine.
Bill Stewart
New Fast-Compression-only CPR http://preview.tinyurl.com/dy575ks