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Judge Disconnects Interior Dept., Again
jeremycec writes "Evidently, nothing's been resolved since 2001, when this
happened the first
time. In these Memorandum
Opinion and Preliminary
Injunction documents from Judge Royce
C. Lamberth of the U.S.
District Court for Washington, D.C., we see how the court
stepped in to pull the plug on a system, which, through its
abject lack of due care,
left someone's important financial information wide open to
attackers. According to the former CIO of the Bureau of
Indian Affairs: 'For all practical purposes, we have no
security, we have no infrastructure, ... Our entire network
has no firewalls on it. I don't like running a network that
can be breached by a high school kid.' So, when the BIA
could get no relief through Interior's IT Dept.,
it went to the courts. Source: Government Computer News "
It's really very simple, people; if you leave personal information about me lying around on a network which a mere script kiddie can break into, then you deserve to get sued. If you take no measures to remedy the situation, even after being repeatedly warned, and then my details get stolen and sold on, you WILL get sued. Why? To send a message. I hope this happens to more companies so that they get serious about data protection. Heck, even schools have crappy information security. I should tell you about the kind of thing I could get off the school network and the lax treatment of passwords...
Bash script for FP whores
Our government is incapible of becoming like Orwell's 1984. They cant even keep their system straight.
And also, what's a government office doing on the internet? Shouldnt there be a Web machine (dmz) and a firewall for interal access (if they need it)? That doesnt cost more than a 1000$.
it's true .... my mother in-law works at the BIA, and hasn't had email for years. i've offered to do real cheap contracting to help them set up a small, secure network in their regional office, to no avail. they were still waiting for the gov IT dept to work it out.
They should try one of those motherboards with fancy IDE encryption, that'll keep their data safe!
I have over 70 freaks, do you?
I know the feds have lots of standards (And pretty well thought-out) for bank-related IT security.
Don't they have some similar standards for government standards, or are all different federal entities left to simply come up (or not come up) with their own standards?
It's often a good idea to make it plain which link is the main focus, rather than the background information. It would make sense for the main story to be linked to "the court stepped in to pull the plug on a system", but I suppose we'll have to be left wondering.
On the bright side, at least this one wasn't archived.
Well sounds like someone told someone a Buzzword. If there was NO infrastructure, there wouldn't be a problem. The problem is the infrastructure they DO have. BTW is the dept. of Indian affairs there to keep secret the horrors the Indian people had to suffer under the Imperialist conquerer's the early Americans were? Ooops just let the secret out, you can keep the firewall budget for the lawsuits.
I went to battle MC Escher, but drew a blank
So, what's your IP? WoOt!
Now everyone gets to know your business if the government does. How egalitarian! Big Brothers are watching you!
seriously, BIA, no security... i've always wonderd about that, they do deserve to get sued, but really, NO FIREWALLS? how can someone be that damned stupid? bunch of retarded computer users mabey, or a government agency? shouldn't the government have more sense then this?!!?!?
So fine, the BIA is allowed to sue the DOI. But who the hell is the DOI, who funds them. Well you and I. If the IT manager of the DOI is an idiot who couldn't care less about Native Americans and their "bureau", the absolute worse thing that can happen is that that person will lose their job (and good luck with that if this person happens to be female or a minority). So what is happening here. WE get to pay for someone dropping the ball. WE get to pay the court costs for BOTH agencies. WE get to pay whatever damages are awarded. In this case lawsuits are worthless (actually worse than worthless as they have negative worth). No messages are sent and in the end the taxpayers lose, and the clients of the BIA lose.
There has to be a lot more to this story. Low priority is one thing. This is right up there with willfully not breathing, or willfully not locking a door.
"Learning is not compulsory... neither is survival."
--Dr.W.Edwards Deming
They should run on FreeLeonardPeltierBSD.
in this day and age, when government spending along with jobless rates are at an all time high, there are government agencies that either don't have or have a badly staffed IT department. Judging from slashdot readership alone, there are many out-of-work geeks that could shore up gov't IT security for next to nothing. Even if it's an all Windows network, it can still be secured for relatively cheap....just hire a kiddie, pay him 30K/year to maintain Microsoft's Software Update Services to automatically download and install critical updates. You certainly don't need MCSE for that!
This comment was randomly generated by a school of piranhas chewing on the PCB of a Microsoft Natural Keyboard.
you can finish the statement!
The simple fact is that the Department of The Interior hates the BIA. They resent them like hell and are doing nothing to help them at all. Standards, routers, etc... have nothing to do with this.
It's high time that the BIA be moved from Interior to the Department of State anyway. The American-Indiands issue isn't a land issue, it's a deplomacy issue. But that's just more politics and not relevant to the story at hand.
Boobies never hurt anyone. - Sherry Glaser.
please ignore this post
Then don't post it.
Any mod who know's their head from their ass will mod my post up as insightful.
It comes as a shock that our government employs unqualified personal in the IT department! The chief executive and his top aids are clearly the most qualified individuals for the job! Then why this trend does not propagate down to the trenches?....
he-he
Just because I don't care, it doesn't mean I don't understand. Homer J. Simpson
This Website is Temporarily Unavailable The BIA website as well as the BIA mail servers have been made temporarily unavailable due to the Cobell Litigation. Please continue to check from time to time. We have no estimate on when authorization will be given to reactivate these sites. Here are some alternate ways to get BIA-related information: For general BIA information: 202 208-3710 For Tribal Leaders Directory: 202 208-3711
I went to battle MC Escher, but drew a blank
I feel safer. And the chocolate rations have been increased to 5 units.
I'll take that challenge!!
chocolate rations? they give chocolate rations? how come i was not notified of this? i would have sued for my chocolate rations!
The BIA has been hopelesly corrupt for years, squandering monies that were meant for Native Americans and padding their own pockets. They don't want this system fixed, as fixing it would also uncover their embezlement. They also want a convenient scapegoat: "Hackers took the money!"
- None can love freedom heartily, but good men; the rest love not freedom, but license. -- John Milton
aware of your comments and are on the way over to help. Just sit quietly and wait.
..but they seem to leave it up to individual entities.
Which, I think makes sense. The Department of Oddly Shaped Buttons does not need the same security procedures as, say, the Department of Defense. Implementing the craziness of the DoD in the DoOSB would only waste time and money. Our money - we're taxpayers, after all, and we're the ones footing the bill.
At any rate, I expect the government entities will become much more 'l33t3r' in the months to come.
Back in the day, a government job in computers was for weenies. Why make $35-60k a year, when you could ride the bubble for $100k+ and stock options?
Now that the bubble is burst and the tech industry is befukt, knowledgable technies are flocking to gub'ment jobs.
The BIA is mostly a human services organization, historically a realm of Democrats. The current administration is Republican. This is the adult version of kids pulling the wings off of flies, or focusing a magnifying glass on an anthill, for the sole pleasure of watching the chaos and the misery.
I'm sure someone will question my use of the term "adult"....
thank you, and i would like my rations in 1 lb blocks of milk chocolate :)
I've been fighting with them for about two years now over land issues. Corrupt and lazy don't even begin to describe them.
Sticky? ...You're on your own there.
Just goes to show you that the only thing that the Dept. of Interior sees is the inside of their ass.
"Stupidity is like neclear energy; it can be used for good or evil, and you don't want any on you."
Historically, the BIA has done a lot TO the native americans than it has done FOR them.
This is the same organization that kidnapped Indian children in an attempt to supress the culture, and banned observances of Native religious practice.
Oh Lord wont you carry me back I'm just out stealin' his cad......
The interior dept of the US has been screwing Native North Americans for a long time, what makes you think they will change now! If the Interior Dept dosn't finish the job with resevations and keep em stupid tactics maybe Microsofts software will.
OH THE SHAME I fell off the wagon and use sigs again!
"This is the adult version of kids pulling the wings off of flies, or focusing a magnifying glass on an anthill, for the sole pleasure of watching the chaos and the misery."
You are describing what the BIA has done to Native American communities at different times.
This is slashdot, after all.
The BIA isn't suing anyone. They're *being* sued.
The case is Cobell v. Norton -- the plaintiffs are Native Americans and Norton being the Interior department, of which BIA is a part. (Side note: Gail Norton has been held in contempt of court at least twice that I know of as part of this case.)
So, what we have here, is a suit by individuals (more or less) against the Interior department.
Yes, WE get to pay for the government's defense, and, when the government loses, the full judgement to the (fully deserving, IMHO) plaintiffs.
Go pursue your anti-governemnt, anti-PC campaign elsewhere: it isn't relevant here.
Lawsuits aren't worthless here, they're pretty much the only lever the endlessly screwed-over Native Americans have against the interior depatment. I'm happy to see them succeeding at it.
This is the funniest joke I've seen on slashdot in quite a while. Of course, most /.'ers probably are not familiar with this
very controversial case.
"Weapons should be hardy rather than decorative" - Miyamoto Musashi
I think that goes for OS's too
kinda has a new meaning here...
the best way to service the humans covered by the BIA is to explain that they're being compassionate as they bend the clientele over, grab the Crisco and ...
You get the picture.
I heard this on NPR (about 2 weeks ago, sheesh!) and all I could think was "I wonder how long until someone posts the google cache link."
No, my sig isn't that link.
--
...what the hell this article is about?
Bureau of Indian Affairs - are these the people responsible for outsourcing IT jobs to India?
It seems to me that his statement about not wanting to run a network that a "high school kid" could penetrate, needs to be more specific. I would wager that most of the break-in on the internet are teens, who get big thrills off of the more infantile shit, scrpit kiddies if you will, and not hard core attackers. Granted these kids can, and do, do major harm and are just as capable of theft.
"That's mostly due to the anglo-saxon neurosis that makes them believe that everything coming from the State is bad."
What about the even worse neurosis, sometimes afflicting Germans and Russians, where everything coming from the State is good? Come on now, get in line and goose-step.
"I say "seemingly" because the private sector makes as much if not more mistakes than the public sector,"
No, it does not. The private sector is much more accountable: it is harder to get away with things. Remember the great Ghostbusters quote: "I've worked in the private sector. They expect results"
n
They must be really dumb to use such an easily guessable password for a system connected to the internet.
"sorry - even in government jobs it is not acceptable to ....show up to work without pants"
Were you asleep during the Clinton administration, or what?
Speaking from the inside, they are giving the rest
of the Department an opportunity to show progress and not be affected, which could mean this has a much smaller impact. There are some offices who have been offline the entire time, which makes dealing with them a pain.
For my agency, IT security has improved immensely since last time.
Unfortunately, they've not taken into account those who already had decently secured systems three years ago.
It's a lawsuit over the Indian Trust Funds that's been going on for 7 years now. The plaintiffs are a couple of Indians from various tribes. Cobell vs. Dept. of Interior. http://www.indiantrust.com has a summary of what's been going on.
If Gray Davis were a private-sector CEO, he'd have been sacked many months ago. No need to go through a tedious recall process.
They can get interns to do it for free .
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, .
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.
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.
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.
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If they cannot get an Intern they can import someone
from overseas give them a L1 visa and pay them
minimum wage
Hell Tatia consulting specializes in unempolying ppl in the US
they are one of the best cheap foreign labor sweatshops in the US
Why hire americans, when you can get ppl for next to nothing !!
Go corporate corruption !
( sarcasm ended )
Asking the government why they do something stupid year end
and year out is like asking why the CEO of a major failing
corporation did not listen to the engineers
An MBA type thinks he is above the lowly R&D folks, his
elitism pushes his ego to all new heights
You see the same egotism, elitism, and intra-departmental
squabbling in the government
"little kingdoms" run by little minds
cooperation on a basic level undermined by personality
conflicts, and pissing contests
Until someone goes thru there and "cleans house" it is gonna
suck just as bad as it does now
Protecting the jobs of the incompetent whether they are
female or a minority is hurting this country, and will
be of the key object lessons of it is collapse from within
Learn from the fall of Rome, or history will repeat itself
Peace,
Ex-MislTech
google "32 trillion offshore needs IRS attention"
You are obviously not an inner party member.
But he's a left-wing journalist, so it is OK for him to murder a couple of guys!
As a native american indian, go fuck yourself. Unless you are speaking of an indian from india, in which case, go fuck yourself. Stupid redneck bastard.
But the problem is that something like 3/4 BIA employees are Native Americans, which presents a HUGE conflict of interest in this lawsuit. So basically the people suing for negligence and mishandling of funds are the people responsible for handling those funds.
"Hell Tatia consulting specializes in unempolying ppl in the US , ."
they are one of the best cheap foreign labor sweatshops in the US
They are not a sweatshop. That term has specific meanings which are lacking in Tatia. Tatia does not force anyone to work for them, they do not lock the doors and crack the whip. They happen to pay (shocked!) for the value of the work.
" If you want to keep data hidden from an indian, just hide it in his work boots."
I think he is referring to hard-working people who never take their boots off, even if there are lumps of data grinding into their insteps. Or, I hope so anyway!
No they're not. The people sueing the BIA are not working at the BIA. The odds are a bit higher than usual that they have met the people they are sueing. That's all.
"The supposed "goal" of being able to shoot ballistic missiles out of the sky is just a red herring"
No, that is the main goal, which is why it is going on even after the USSR fell apart.
Gorbie new it would work, that was why he opposed it so vigorously.
But the sad point is thet even if the BIA wins, they still won't get secure netowrks or good infrastructure out of this.
So they're not really succeeding, unless is the verdict is for the Interior Department to pay for whoever the BIA wants to hire from the outside to come in and do the job right.
uh huh... well if you want to hide data from a stupid redneck bastard, put it under the soap...
Hmm so you're saying that none of the 500,000 Native Americans that are benfeciaries of the trust fund work for BIA? I call bullshit...
- The government agreed to secure machines that had certain types of sensitive information, and to allow someone to verify that those machines were secure.
- One machine was discovered to be insecure because apparently it WAS in the DMZ for a legitimate use and thus could be portscanned (it was just insecure)
- The people scanning it told the gov't that they were going to do a full penetration scan (so that they didn't get prosecuted), which everybody had agreed to and agreed would be private (i.e. nobody would try to secure the box in advance of the penetration)
- The machine magically vanished off the network right before the penetration scan with a bit of a bogus explaination
- The government and the guy responsible for doing the scans got into a big pissing contest that they refused to settle peacefully.
In other words, it seems like some parts of the government was attempting to do the right thing here, but some other parts got seriously upset when they discovered that the Special Master (the guy responsible for verifying compliance that the machines were actually secure) was actually doing his job and not just taking their word that they hadn't leaked information about the machine that was going to be penetrated, fearing the consequences.Quite frankly, I'm a little confused as to why the government had to allow a full exploit to take place rather than accepting the warning of "this machine is insecure, secure it now," except that maybe it's with an eye towards preparing for the day when the courts aren't constantly portscanning them.
Is that the government is deliberately foot-dragging on all kinds of BIA infrastructure, hoping to delay the time of reckoning, when it will be made clear that the BIA mismanaged the lands entrusted to them, particularly with regard to oil royalties.
IIRC, Gale Norton, the Secy of the Interior, had gotten subpoened, held in contempt, etc.
This IT snafu is just a small part of an overall larger mess that each Cabinet level Interior Secy is hoping to delay Until the Next Administration's Watch.
"Provided by the management for your protection."
" uh huh... well if you want to hide data from a stupid redneck bastard, put it under the soap"
It follows that the worst place to hide it is in the redneck's sister's bra.
If this has nothing to do with which administration is in power, then why did your first rebuttal fix blame on the Clinton administration? And who cares who sought the injunctive relief; the fact is that the BIA is blaming this on underfunding.
Didn't Clinton have Bruce Babbit run the department, a man who was found to have been involved in bribery crimes?
The BIA and DOI are often problems no matter what the administration is, but only rarely does the administration put a felon in charge.
About 18 months ago, I was part of a company hired to go to one of the DOI's sites and do an assessment of the security they had. I won't give out details but suffice to say, they DO have firewalls and other security measures in place at the DOI. Like _ANY_ large government body there are going to be holes, etc. However, much like the fact that not all of Arthur Anderson did business like the group that worked with Enron, not all of DOI is in bad shape.
The original shutdown of all of DOI was far to broad IMO. This is a case where the lawyers are able to convince a judge to be paranoid in order to protect the harmed party. Next time you want to complain about wasted tax dollars, remember this.
If you read closely, this only affects parts of the DOI that have to do with Indian affairs. This is the result of an enormous internal audit that had to verify which parts of DOI had any Indian data on them.
I have no problem freeing Peltier, after he has served a couple hundred years on combined sentences for unlawful firearms discharge, malicious destruction of property including police cars, and assault (which you described in detail).
After he has served a fair sentence for what can fairly be described as at least 133 separate felonies committed, he can be released. Of course, the only reasonable sentence for these means he won't get out in time to see the sky. Poor Lenny.
I don't like running a network that can be breached by a high school kid.
I think this statement underestimates the experience, intelect and time that some high school kids have. I have seen countless posts to Slashdot either by people in high school or by people who were doing great things by the time they were in high school. This statement means nothing and somewhat indicates the lack of understanding that the general public has about hackers and crackers.
This is exactly what is going on, so everyone claiming Democrats or Republicans are to blame, wake up. The US has been screwing over Natives and covering it up since before there even were Democrats or Republicans. It's really one of those "public secrets" that anyone who knows anything about Native American affairs knows all about.
It really has very little to do with computer security at all, this is all just another delaying tactic by yet another administration. I could claim that this administration's oil ties would make this even more of an embarrasment if it all came out, but I'm sure the Dems have their fair share of dirty little secrets too.
- None can love freedom heartily, but good men; the rest love not freedom, but license. -- John Milton
Our entire network has no firewalls on it. I don't like running a network that can be breached by a high school kid.' So, when the BIA could get no relief through Interior's IT Dept., it went to the courts.
I'm out of work. I have the ability to add a heck of a lot of security to their network. They need help. It seems like a perfect fit. Too bad there is way too much buracracy to get anything done, let alone anyone hired to implement even a rudamentary solution.
The chocolate rations *are* 5 units... they have always been 5 units.
The Ministry of Indians is currently using CRIMESTOP to protect their infrastructure. You must use DOUBLETHINK to understand this- there is simultaneously no security, and perfect security.
Besides, if you hack the DOI, you're an enemy of the party.
Get the facts and the whole sad story online at www.indiantrust.com
You will discover that the real issue is the US Gov. stonewalling and resisting the lawsuit giving rise to this judical order.
At stake is the US Gov losing it's trusteeship over all the money it collects from such things as rental/timber/mining/mineral/other rights earned and payable to individual indians. Seems there may be TRILLIONS of dollars "unaccounted for" over the decades the US Gov has been "taking care of" the indians.
The IT systems supposedly set up to track everythng are a mess. They can't say how much they have, should have, or to whom they should be making payments.
Sounds to me like a nice slush fund for the US Gov. With the judge on this case -- who is wise to all the government's ploys (read about his background for why), it's likely the game is finally up. While I'm doubtful the entire truth of the entire amount stolen from the indians will come to light, the amounts that do come out are lilkey to astonish many, IMO.
Anyone can read up on the lawsuit and press coverage of this lawsuit at www.indiantrust.com
To most of the 4 and 5 level moderated comments I've read, I'll say that most of you are reading this assuming the judicial order is due to the system being messed up (and this coming to light recently) as the central issue. This is just the tip of the iceberg. The real story is how the US Gov has been pilfering indian money for decades, resisting by every means they can of making a full accounting of the state of the trust accounts, and resisting losing their control over all the money flowing through their hands -- much less than 100% of which makes it to the trust beneficiaries (i.e. poor indians) it's supposed to be paid to.
FWIW, IMO...and I'm not a lawyer or an indian, nor connected to this suit; I've just been reading about it over time,
Signed,
A proud American, but one ashamed at how badly his government behaves in cases like this.
These guys 'lost' over a billion dollars worth of stuff ($1,000,000,000) much of it permanently belonging to the Indian community NOT THE TAXPAYER. They royally screwed up things like property titles, trust funds for Federal use of their property for things like storing nuclear waste, uranium mining, et cetera. Many of these assets are guaranteed by treaties which were ratified by the US Congress and the Indian nations. If the BIA violates the treaties they would have to return the land those treaties guarantee. This is the highest form of contract obligation. They didn't even take the most basic precautions to protect this cash and property. The system by all accounts is completely inept to the point of being criminal negligence. Ovbiously the BIA has a role of servicing the Indian community contracts and treaties. If the Indian owner of the property demands where his cash is the BIA is obligated to tell him, he has a legal right to do this. The DOI 'losing' the cash is not an excuse, they have pay what they owe. They can't tell the Indian nations, "By the way we lost your cash so we aren't going to pay you." They are obligated to pay by contract and by Federal law. The BIA is right to sue, they have no other way to get those assets back from the DOI that belong to the native community and they are chartered to manage and protect! This is not about minorities victimizing us poor white people, it is about the US government following through on contract obligations, which they are currently in breach of.
Wasn't there a treaty signed that specifically gave firewalls to the Indians? Could that treaty have been broken?
Ceci n'est pas une signature.
The California 1849 gold rush started as personal placer mining (with a pan or trough), but as the easy stuff was taken, it turned into corporate hydraulic mining. They built big canals and diverted lots of water to erode hills in their search for gold; the diggins near me used to be a hill 400 feet higher. They also stripped the forests to build the flumes and canals; almost all the big trees around me date from 120 years ago when you count the rings. The eroded hills washed downstream and silted up rivers, caused flooding and destroyed farms and orchards. No one liked hydraulic mining, but the legislators were in the pocket of the miners (and the railroad, but that's another story). What stopped the mining was the downstream victims suing and pressing enormous damages.
Yes, 120 years ago, lawyers did good with huge lawsuits, remarkably similar to nowadays. As much as I despise lawyers, they do have a way of bypassing corrupt and powerful corporations and politicians. As much as I would love to get rid of lawyers, I don't want to until there is some method in place to replace their function.
Infuriate left and right
Science Applications International Corporation (SAIC) were the ones that came in to solve all the Agency security problems. Instead they messed it up even more by not providing the needed capabilities. You pay expensive contractors and what you get? It was a matter of time before this was gonna happen. Poor management!
In a nutshell, the Special Master for the court has brought in an outside consultant to do pen-testing of DOI systems. The problem is that this guy is just hacking away willy-nilly, and there are no rules of engagement or lines of communication. In short, there's no way for DOI to know this guy's attacks apart from those of any black-hat, and there's no way to prevent him from doing more harm than good (or notifying DOI should he screw something up, as is prone to happen in pen-testing). SAIC, the company working to improve DOI security, has asked for some changes to this, and was turned down. As a result, the DoJ has intervened, pointing out that what the consultant has been doing is not legal and is actually hacking in the very illegal sense of the word. This is the backlash from the Special Master in return for that.
For your security, this post has been encrypted with ROT-13, twice.
I have worked both in the private sector and (now) in a government organisation and I can say that I've seen incompetence in both realms. Market pressure does not not necessarily eradicate losers, because once they get enough money, they can feed off each other, creating industries of incompetence (marketing, management consultants ;) ).
Self-congratulatory old-boys networks can last for a long time in business. Eventually, their businesses will collapse, but it can take a long time. In the meantime the end-user suffers.
Sometimes a public service can appear inefficient because it has a duty to cater for all citizens, rather then just a select few who can pay for a premium service. It might not be cost effective to print pamphlets in braille, but does the goverment have a right to deny basic information and services to the blind?
In Australia, a lot of IT contracts were outsourced to private companies, who were tremendously inefficient compared with the in-house staff. Or they lacked the specialised knowledge those staff possessed.
I think a lot of public services go wrong when they try to emulate business (uh oh, here come the buzzwords!).
What is the inverse of the Matrix?
With all the top jobs going to the well connected, is it any wonder nothing gets done right. Every company I've every worked for was rife with incompetence and politics. The higher you got to the top, the greater the stench of corruption.
Really, I'm never surprized by how stupid rich people are, just that poor people aren't wise enough to realize how badly they're getting burnt.
Croynism, nepotism and patronism rule in America. Forget competence, you'll never find it at anywhere near management. Also, isn't it amazing how many will sell out so much for so little.
"Its ok for you to sit and profit from the land and resources now, because it wasn't you that did it, it was your forefathers."
All of us had ancestors who stole and ancestors who suffered. If whitey had never arrived, you'd have a continent full of Indians who would be living on lands their tribes had stolen from other Indians (that is how it was before).
"Its not ok for others to criticise american history,"
It has nothing to do with "double standards". Criticism is wrong if it is based on invalid or inconsistent assumptions, as yours is.
"Fortunately the corrupt senators and house of reps recently .
."
."
."
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decided to reduce this policy to 65,000 new H1-b's a year,
but scum bags like Tatia have decided to start using the
now UNLIMITED L1 visa to bring in cheap labor
"
There is nothing corrupt about this. In fact, the visa process is too restricted. We should let anyone in who wants to work, even if they happen to be filthy foreigners who work better than some Americans (that must be your real resentment).
"if we can find an american that can do the job, no Visa
worker moving in to take it and send the money overseas,
sounds DAMN good to me
I'm an American, but no nationalist bigot. If someone can do the job better, let them have the job regardless of nationality.
"How many muslims working here are funneling money
back to their country, and then a 3rd party makes
the pay off to Al-qaida
Yeah, all Muslims are terrorists..... Do you think that Jews control all the banks too?
"If they want to hire you, they should pay you as much as the
US counterparts make here
No, they should pay for the value of the work. No more.
" I admire your defending Tatia, but it does make one
wonder why you have those allegiances or biases
I am biased toward not standing in the way of a worker and an honest living.
MAKE IT STOP AAAAH
At some point, poor security becomes negligence. You owe your users a duty to make a reasonable effort to protect their data. If you do not and they are damaged by it, then I think they have a case.
"Most of the ppl from these outsource labor countries do not ."
evne like the US, they just like its money, and most send the
money back home
So what. If they earned it, they can do this if they want. The U.S. has already gotten plenty from them from their hard work which can only help the United States economy. It's a fair trade, work for money.
I need to talk to someone that does not have a vested .
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t er /?letter_id=31279091
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interest in financially destabilizing our economy
As visa workers or their kids you do not care if our
economy goes in the toilet
Fortunately one person in Washington does, as will others
http://www.congress.org/congressorg/bio/userlet
Sending billions out of the US a year does not help
the economy
I am starting an online e-mail petition and hosting it
off petitionsonline and I am going to get this Visa tripe
set straight.
You have *** """ Motivated Me """ ***
I thank you for your help in giving me the level of disgust
to do something more than just whine about it here
I may fail, but by God or Allah I am going to try my best,
and I am going to get all the ppl I know that got """ REPLACED """
to join me in this crusade
So enjoy your jobs here while you got it, or your parents
got it, the gig is just about up
The majority of Blue and White collar workers are pissed
off and as citizens we get to vote , and your gonna be hearing
about it
Peace,
Ex-MislTech
google "32 trillion offshore needs IRS attention"
"I need to talk to someone that does not have a vested
."
interest in financially destabilizing our economy"
When workers who contribute to the economy by working, the economy can only benefit from this.
"Sending billions out of the US a year does not help
the economy
It's called free and fair trade; for those billions we get something of equal value.
"I am starting an online e-mail petition and hosting it
off petitionsonline and I am going to get this Visa tripe
set straight."
Have fun. I wonder if you will get as many signatures as "Bring Back Babylon 5" or "Two Towers Film Title is Attempt to Cash in on 9-11 Tragedy" or the one proposing increasing Lara Croft's upper measurements.
"The majority of Blue and White collar workers are pissed
off and as citizens we get to vote "
You mean the workers who like to wear white sheets on weekends. Rest assured, the workers you want to stomp on (and those who employ them and work alongside them) will vote against you if it ever comes to anything meaningful.
"You seem to forget the Insurance industry, Medicine, and Securities. CEOs, yea, they're accountable too. [hbs.edu] The private sector is as filled with leaches and the clueless. We are only aware of the Government ones because they are accountable to us, the taxpayer. "
Yes, CEO's are accountable and tend to be paid the worth of their work.
Government is less accountable, and there is little or no connection between the bureacrats and the taxpayers. If there were, the taxpayers would not have to put up with the ludicrous long lines and lack of response / rude response that they deal with when putting up with the government services.
An excellent example of this is the postal service. They keep their own hours (customers be damned), and they increase their prices and decrease their services. Public sector companies tend to fail when they do this, as they are not propped up by the government.
Yes, there is a problem with insurance, securities, and medicine. Interesting that you name industries rife with government-caused problems and enforced monopolies.