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Sinclair's Answer To The Segway
slumos writes "BBC News Online is reporting on Sir Clive Sinclair's reaction to the Segway. The British inventor thinks it's fine for factories, but not for crowded streets, and he's even planning some competition in the form of a top-secret follow-up to the Sinclair C5."
would make S. Jobs shit his pants?
Between British and US engineering.
Styles are different and I wonder what the differences would be.
I would like to see a followup to the ZX-Spectrum.
I believe the article makes reference to Sinclair's other efforts at transportation: the Zike (a folding electric scooter) and the Zeta (a motor which attaches to a normal bicycle, harnessing energy when you go downhill and using it to propel you uphill at a stately 8mph, as I remember).
These relatively unknown inventions were peddled in the small ads sections of newspapers for a long time. The electric scooter sold for about 500, the bike motor for about 200. But no, I don't know anyone who had one.
Like car accidents, most hardware problems are due to driver error.
.... but can I run linux on it?
Well, this is some another company bashing it's competition - ooh, what big news.
But while we're on the topic of the Segway: Frankly, I'm surprised at all the negative reaction to the Segway, here (Slashdot) and elsewhere. I mean honestly, it's very innovative, compact, somewhat cheap, enviro-safe, etc. It could really compete with the automobile in many areas. And yet you get the mommy-types bitching about it promoting laziness, dangerous on sidewalks, etc. So nay-sayers, correct my misunderstanding: how exactly will the world be worse if Segways become massively popular? I see nothing but good coming from its adoption.
Your hybrid is not saving the environment. Its purpose is to make you feel good about buying something.
A response to a product that is a total flop is REQUIRED. We can't just let the Segway sit around with it's monopoly of 50 units sold, can we??
That would be the Sinclair QL then.
Sinclair swipes the Segway prints some nifty stickers up that say Sinclair C6 and put them all over the Segway causing severe balance problems and all the Sinclair rebranded Segways flip the heads of large nations over the handle bars, backers of the Sinclair C6 pull out and the C6 is a failure.
It didn't have a disk drive or tape deck, so if we wanted to play a game we had to type the program in (in BASIC) from scratch every time the computer was turned off.
My dad used it for his budget at first, but since we had to keep everything on paper and re-enter the data anyway, he soon dropped it.
Oh boy, those were the days.
sounds perfect for slashdot readers then :D
When the C5 was first announced, Sir Clive said that the next model would be the C4, and the series would continue until the C1 saw the light of day - the C1 was rumoured to be a real car.
But if you look at the C5 (plastic trike) and the Zike (c4) bike - it would appear that the machines in the series were getting smaller and slower....
If it isn't safe, it fails for practical use. The segway circumvents this as being reliable sturdy (heavy) US alteration it seems. Of course I'm merely a young chap[sic] residing in the US who has never heard of it before now.
Before I depart, I was wondering just how dangerous it was. Proceeding to google it, I found an interesting interview that appears to have taken place August 1986.
Of course relational interests are too much so I had to look into the Clive Computer. I came across some interesting information since my inception was the NES ;-]
Even George Bush took a ride on one, although any White House endorsement was somewhat undermined when he was catapulted over the handlebars.
That's what he would call bad driving strategery.
The Site for Sinclair C5 Enthusiasts Worldwide
The Sinclair C5 was a commercial disaster. The Press hounded it as a dangerous joke.
Only around 12,000 C5's were ever produced, many sold off abroad after the project folded.
No, no, I don't think this is Sinclair's site. After all, very few people are proud of making 'commercial disasters.'
====
Crudely Drawn Games
i haven't RTFA, but segways seem like a good way to clog up sidewalks a la traffic jams. i mean, people slowing down and speeding up, the traffic compression effect all over again, just on the sidewalks. and they take up more space than your average human.
What I can't understand is how he got in the news with this latest hollow promise. Nothing will come of it. No-one believes anything this old dottard has-been says, and no-one's going to invest a penny in his mad schemes any more.
The Sinclair C5 Enthusiasts site that asks for donations is a hobbyist site. It is not advertising anything.
the c5 was cool but if you rocked it too much the ram pack fell out so you had to restart the engine and go back to the start of your journey. pisser.
All I Want For Christmas Is My Constitutional Rights
Listen up, you fat, stupid, greasy American fuckers.
That's fat, stupid, greasy, heavily ARMED with nuclear fucking weapons American fuckers to you, buddy. You should be afraid.
If I were him I'd throw an over-sized muffler on it, a huge wing and some carbon fibre parts. Than offer bigger rims, lowering springs and an enormous stereo as aftermarket add ons.
He'd sell alot more that way.
I love the smell of Karma in the morning
and he's even planning some competition in the form of a top-secret follow-up to the Sinclair C5."
.
hell of a secret . .
'nuff said.
1q2w3e4r5t6y7u8i9o0pqawsedrftgthyjukilo;p'azsxdcf
When I lived in Oxford, UK one of the members of the local LUG was also a Sinclair C5 fan. He occasionally uses his C5 to travel to work, having kitted it out with two flourescent flags on poles to make the machine a bit more visible. He also does long distance trips for charity once a year - I recall that the last one was an attempt to travel the length of the country. Spares are fairly easy to come by, one good consequence of Sinclair using off the shelf parts. The tyres for instance, are similar to those used on many prams(!).
Chris
Forget the C5 or C6, and Segway.
Clive Sinclair did have a few sharp ideas and one of them was the the wafer chip project:
"What you have is a wafer of silicon a few inches in diameter and instead of chopping that up and putting all the bits that work into packages and then putting them all together again on a circuit board, you keep them on the wafer. The problem is that you've got to have some system to test for the good areas. Essentially we divide the memory up into blocks about the size of an ordinary chip and put a bit of extra logic on which uses a mathematical algorithm to connect up the good chips and not the bad. If one bit fails you can power-down and reconfigure it so it has an extended lifetime."
This was a genuinely good idea. Reduce the cost of chip manufacture and extend the life of computers by many years. Just replace the odd power supply every 3 or 4 years. The reconfigure of faulty chips could even be done on the fly.
Using this proposed method, Memory & Processor chips aren't just "Good" or "Dead", they can last many years in a very slow state of hardly noticable decay.
Heat is a problem I hear you say for processors? Well if you have 20 of them on one wafer you don't need them to all be P4s.
Intel will probably jump onto this idea when Moore's law starts to flatten out.
Cheap slabs of ram and CPU, that don't fail all at once - yeah!!
They must appeal to lazy-ass people who would rather get around in a wheelchair than walk
Yeah, just like all them dicks who buy cars.
Just because you're paranoid doesn't mean there isn't an invisible demon about to eat your face
Sorry Clive, 99.9% of those with an ounce of brain matter considered the Segway an utter waste of technology. Take our president, representative of that .1% who considered it worth using. It's a stupid rich boys toy, and an utter waste of time to use.
Most people with an ounce of brains could buy an electric scooter with far more range and capabilities for $300 or less here, with enough room for cargo and with options not seen in the Segway, such as turn signals, a horn, a ca0rgo basket, and a headlight. That should be enough of a clue for most.
Just because you can mod me down, doesn't mean you're right. Shoes for industry!
More info on the Wafer Chip project AKA Wafer Scale Integration.
During 1986, Sinclair Research (SRL) took the decision to divest itself of its computer business - which, inclusive of the then product range and 'Sinclair' brand name - was sold to Amstrad plc. The company itself then became a holding company for interests in a series of 'spin outs' covering electronics and other sectors. First among these in 1986 were the Winchester-based Shave Communications - a leader in the development of new communications products - and Anamartic. Established to design, develop and market a range of new memory and processor products using WSI (Wafer Scale Integration) technology, Anamartic shipped its first product in 1989 following a multi-million pound investment programme. It represented the 'first successful application of the wafer-scale technique worldwide'. At the same time Sir Clive also launched a third company, Cambridge Computer Limited, in which SRL initially retained majority control. Cambridge-based, it launched its first product, the best selling Z88 portable computer in summer 1987 and, during 1989, also entered the then new market for advanced satellite receivers.
Well the Z88 was a mild success that developed into the Psion PDAs. A nice approach to portable computing.
But what of the Wafer Scale Integration technology?
Anyone know?
Automobiles have their usefulness. These hi-tech toys do not. Well, at least they're not a superior solution in any circumstance where they might in fact be useful. We need better methods of transporting a person for a short distance, slowly?
The major problem with Segways is that they don't fit into any of the current transportation channels that are available. They're too big and too fast for sidewalks, but they're too slow for bike lanes or the street.
Personally, I bike to work every day (~3 miles, 1.5 uphill, 1.5 down) with a 3-day hiking pack on my back full of all kinds of crap (~25 lbs on average).
Now, cycling has the same problem as Segways, to some degree; cycles are too slow for the road and too fast for the sidewalks. I usually end up on sidewalks because there are no bike lanes in my commute (or really anywhere in my city) and it's far too dangerous on the road.
Now, where a bike has an advantage over a segway:
- I can get off the bike and pass people at a walk.There's plenty of room for people to pass.
- No charging (no electricity, no gas, just food+water in and CO2/organic waste out)
- Keeps you healthy
- Costs little to buy
- Almost everything on a bike can be fixed with simple tools
Now... why is there even a market for these things? With busses, taxis, personal cars and motorbikes for motorized vehicles? With bikes and, I dunno, feet for personal transport? Why do we need something completely incompatible with all of the useful pavement we already have down?
As for using it to get around malls/ workplaces/ etc... you know all of the signs that say NO (insert whelled device here)? I'm sure that segways are not going to be allowed in these places before bikes are.
Anyhow, my 2c.
A couple of reasons:
1) Running cars is expensive, what with registration, insurance, fuel, etc. Segways have no registration, little call for insurance and the "fuel" is cheaper. I know a number of people who only use their cars for driving to and from work and the local store, a 5 minute trip. Segways would be much cheaper in this instance.
2) For people whose work involves a lot of urban/suburban walking, like the poor old postman, the Segway would be much better.
2 reasons off the top of my head.
Just because you're paranoid doesn't mean there isn't an invisible demon about to eat your face
can i get a complite set of ALL slashdot articles ever writen please?
i'm working on a phd (lingustics and date-mining).
trying to determen how articles are percived and replyed to.
examples...
-most used words
-abuses (ex. goatxxx)
-Programm for instant automated reply (geek style) to submited articles
-etc.
thanks!
Link
As the Segway would be expensive even if you took the last 0 from the price tag, hopefully this machine will be available for a price which is not out of reality.
I can't see why this article rates a Slashdot story. Basically it's Sinclair saying he thinks the Segway is OK, but he might have something better in the pipeline. There's nothing about what that might be, it's just a piece to fill out the BBC technology section.
Reporting on what he comes up with when it's actually launched, that's a story. Adding to hype about a product that effectively doesn't exist yet, surely that's just encouraging the sort of disappointment people felt about IT/ginger/the Segway when it was launched.
"What if they're using IE?" "I've dumbed Mozilla down to cope with it." - BOFH
Running cars is expensive, but given the cost of the Segway you could run a car for a long time before the costs even out. And in a car you have the potential to drive much further should you need to, which the Segway doesn't give you. Really, for short trips walking or a bike is much cheaper than a Segway, or even ordering taxis.
The Postmen in the UK use bicycles. They don't run out of power, and they're very cheap and easy to fix, can survive all weather, and aren't as likely to get stolen as something that costs $5,000+
Really, the Segway is an impressive piece of engineering, though I was a lot more impressed by the motorised wheelchairs Kamen invented before it. Unfortunately there's just not really enough call for it to make the thing economically viable.
"What if they're using IE?" "I've dumbed Mozilla down to cope with it." - BOFH
Project Loki was the design for a "Super Spectrum" that Sinclair came up with before Amstrad bought them out. Two ex-Sinclair engineers, John Mathieson and Martin Brennan, left and set up their own company called Flare, drawing on the Loki designs to produce a new multiprocessor games console. Atari brought the console to market as the Jaguar. More info here.
These guys are trying to solve a problem which simply doesn't exist.
There are feet, there are bicycles, there are electric bicycles, there are go-peds, there are electric go-peds, there are electric scooters, there are petrol scooters, there are motorcycles, there are cars.
All of the bases are already covered. Why would I want to spend a small fortune (4,500) on an segway when I can buy an electric go-ped with similar performance characteristics in a much more convenient package for 200?
Government of the people, by corporate executives, for corporate profits.
and it excels in it.
On a visit to Disney in Orlando last month, the parking lot attendants were whishing up and down the lanes on Segways, directing traffic, scooting over to their colleagues, and so on. This struck me as something the Segway is ideal for. If they had a better cargo carrying capability, I could also see postal workers using them, and maintenance people or anyone who has to cover long distances in factories, campuses, and the like.
But as a means of serious personal A to B transportation? Forget it; bikes and cars beat it hands down.
Go ahead, believe that. Just sit back and think he is an idiot. That way he and those of us who support him while run rings around you and you will have no idea why.
Bush Landslide Re-election 2004
> Using antialiased Andale Mono font in my editor makes me happy.
I like Lucida Console at 12 (or 14, at higher resolutions). IMO cleaner than Andale Mono.
Or motorized unicycle. I would **LOVE** to see an aging baby-boomer on one of these, especially in San Francisco.
I wouldn't mind paying for the pyramid scheme of Social Security if I could get my reality entertainment that way.
Oh, hey -- that brings something to mind. Can we at least get rid of Social Security now that the workforce is overseas?
Add the optional forward ramming scoop for refueling, and you're good-to-go!
One line blog. I hear that they're called Twitters now.
"Re-election?"
I think it would be a good strategery to crack open that histerical textbook. You forgot the 2000 election.
Exactly right. Big pieces of plastic suffer from fatigue. While aircraft aluminum begins to fatigue in 20 years, under continuous vibration big pieces of polyethylene fatigue and develop huge cracks in 20 days.
The C5 showed that Clive Sinclair has little design sense. It put the driver in a position to see himself crushed as a car ran over him. Of course, hopefully the driver of the car would see the little flag on the C5.
Sinclair ZX Spectrum +
Then Amstrad followed up further with:
Spectrum 128
Spectrum +2 and +2A
Spectrum +3
and like all good ideas the Speccy was cloned around the world.
Karma: Bad due to google bombing - Robert Watkins woz 'ere.
Stop your foul whining you filthy piece of distended rectum!
That was classic intercourse!
It's called "the silly season". The government's on holiday, so is everyone else. There's a lack of news. Clive Sinclair fills up those column inches
However, I'd like to see more effort in fuel cell technology. If they can make the cars run on methanol, we could very well lose or reduce a LOT of problems - oil dependency, downtown pollution etc.
I just wish Bush had the vision to launch a program that would make fuel cells more efficient and cheaper.. That way, oil would become much less critical on the long run. Wouldn't that be a greater achievment that throwing that camel fucker in Iraq?
Stop the brainwash
i've given up on hoping for hovercraft and such... stupid gravity.
some sci-fi will always be a day away.
// "Can't clowns and pirates just -try- to get along?"
If that's the big advantage, I'm thinking it's not worth the difference in coin. Never once in riding a bike have I said to myself "Now, to enter stop mode." Nor do I necessarily think the "lean back" method of stopping is better than a clear control. Ask W. Bush.
(Where'd you learn about bikes, by the way -- on episodes of the Flintstones? "Put your foot to the ground"??)
In the future we're going to heave our vast, spongy bodies onto Segways, hoist our leaf blowers, and go out to pick up the yard. You're right, the comparison really is to a wheelchair, isn't it?
"Fundamentalism" isn't about divine morality. It's about human authority.
Try an eGO Cycle. It's a a battery-powered cycle that looks more or less like a bike but with a step-through design, uses mostly bike components for easy repairs, rides like a bike and uses bike lanes, but goes 25MPH (range 20 miles). With baskets you can easily get to work and go to the grocery. They're $1400, and no, I don't work for them.
If someone can save the computer industry, that's Sir Clive Sinclair. That's a true genius. It's just amazing what he did with a Z80 processor and a couple of chips, for under 100 pounds. Namely, the brillant invention called the ZX Spectrum (I had a 48+, with its elegant black keyboard, and yes, I had a ZX81 before that. And I'm 22)
It was called a big wheel. WTF?!?!?!
Prof. Farnsworth - "Oh a lesson in not changing history from Mr I'm-My-Own-Grandpa!"
Personally, I bike to work every day (~3 miles, 1.5 uphill, 1.5 down)
At least the trip isn't uphill, both ways, aye?
...will it look as snazzy as a General Products #2 hull?
The reason that the C5 was called the C5 is because Alan Sinclair is a supergeek.
:)
:)
The Sinclair Spectrum used a Z80 processor, and Mr. Sinclair was a hardcore Z80 coder back in the day...
The instruction numbered 0xC5 is PUSH BC.... So it's really Sinclair C5 = Push Bike
I've been impressed with that geekiness since about 1984
Yours
AnonymouSCOward
Argh.. I wonder what how much money the bastards will want to 'clean' my name
They only sold 5000 of the 12000 production run at 399GBP back in the day.
I think Clive has cleverly held-on to as many C5s as he could and is now flogging them one by one on eBay for a massive markup.
Ripping an new rectum in the fabric of spacetime.
I'm not. I'm more afraid of some idiot with a tiny bottle of god knows what.
....Excuse me, but
Ummm...hey, jackass, usually the editors, who have unlimited mod points, take care of the trolls like yourself, so you didn't actually waste anybody's mod points. Sorry to ejaculate on your parade.
The problem is that cities are built wrong and people have funny goals.
As I see it:
IMHO, the ideal would be to all but discard the car as a method of transportation and focus on public transportation, alternative methods of transportation and high speed networking infrastructure to encourage those who can to work from home.
Workplaces should have (or locate near heath clubs with) safe bicycle racks, changerooms and showers, and the roads should have wide lanes so that those who really do need to drive don't try to sqeeze cyclists, inline skaters, slow scooters, segways and other junk off the road.
But, that can't happen overnight... so you need some stupid new technology to inspire people to think about how dumb they all are spending hours transporting a thousand kilograms of metal and glass back and forth across the city on a daily basis.
will find that unit under a truck on 7th ave.
The disadvantages are less control, an inability to get out of the saddle and use the power in your arms when climbing, and the fact that you are indeed less visible to the people who prefer to travel by burning dead dinosaurs. Hence the flags.
Buy a bike. They are cheap in comparison, have only a few working parts (less to break), much more manueverable and fast, and less likely to get you ass kicked. You have been sitting all day writing code. Do you really need a machine to move you around at walking speed? That is why god gave you legs (far superior to any segway design). I just don't get the point. And the price tag is insane. You can get a crappy car for that price, and it will go a hundred times faster.
MY reply to segway was... "hahahaha! waaaaaaait... what???"
You must have never seen a Segway.
The only one I've seen was being operated by a woman shopping in Ikea. It worked just fine. And if the locals on sidewalks in your town are slower than typical female shopping, they must get regularly overtaken by glaciers and drifting continents.
Cannot see the point of the Segway. Actually, there are lots of older people with limited mobility (arthritis etc.) who are not completely disabled. My father, for instance, who can walk about a mile, slowly (he is over 80) and would not be seen dead in a wheelchair. In fact, he has a lot of difficulty getting into and out of cars. Besides, he doesn't need a wheelchair. In the small town he lives in, there is relatively little sidewalk traffic during the day and he could easily get right round the town on a Segway. A golf cart or battery wheelchair is not the answer for people like him. A Segway would give them mobility with dignity (OK, didn't work for Bush Junior, but I bet his father would have more success with it.)
Panurge has posted for the last time. Thanks for the positive moderations.
Type-R Segway
If you don't want to repeat the past, stop living in it.
Until I saw the $4,000 price tag on Amazon. I don't understand why it is so expensive. It's a simple slow motorized stand with wheels. I bought a Gas Powered Go-Ped and a larger Carb for it allowing me to travel at about 40-45mph (stock was 30-35mph). The Go-Ped cost me $500 (Including extra parts otherwise it would have been $450). They even make models that can have seats on them if you want to sit instead of stand for an extra $75-$100. Currently in San Jose you are allowed to ride Go-Peds legally in the bike lane, someone told me that the Segway was not allowed on side walks because it moved to slow? I don't know if that is true or not, but I don't know nor have seen anyone who owns one. With so many other less expensive (and better IMHO) alternatives I don't see the point in getting a Segway. Even for older people the price of a decent Bicycle can be found in the $400-$600 range.
Ave Molech Setting
If you cant ride a bicycle Im sure you can find lots of ways to harm yourself, for the non moron segment of the population stopping and putting their foot down is not a problem though.
If anything it will contribute the laziness that pervades society, and worse, will further exaggerate that problem many government employees.
* Winners compare their achievements to their goals, losers compare theirs to that of others.
Segways are no more of a replacement for automobiles than bicycles. Face it, no one is going to put up with rain, cold, or other weather. Businesses sure don't put up with much of it in regards to employee availability unless it borders on life threatening.
Combine that with the fact you have no real storage, no protection from other hazards (read:dogs, etc), and zero phyiscal protection and its a dead issue.
We require children to wear helmets to ride bicycles, how long before we require Segway riders to have similar attire? Who pays for accidents on Segways?
All these elements conspire against this type of transportation. Seqway is an expensive toy that is only ideally suited for use by government employees. The government can void laws as well as create them to suit its needs, and it certainly doesn't care about costs.
* Winners compare their achievements to their goals, losers compare theirs to that of others.
No, no, no! You have it all wrong! I like to go around modding idiots like you into obvliion because you are being idiotic. If that makes me a Nazi in your eyes, I'm fine with that. But at least get your accusations right.
My company (The SCOOTER Store) manufactures an inexpensive scooter that doesn't cost an arm and a leg ($999) to use, has accessories, and you can sit down in the thing and go several miles in it, and it folds up and fits in your truck. We also sell the traditional stuff (scooters and power chairs) directed at Medicare recipients and those with private insurance who need it to improve their mobility. The PTVs are designed for more everyday outdoor use. They would be perfect for NOC employees who have to move around from terminal to terminal all the time... :-)
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;) ..so much for british engineering. :)
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poor sinclair.. always disappointing.
I am a viral sig. Please copy me and help me spread. Thank you
HD also has an answer to the Segway - it uses a much more powerful engine, and this really neat completely mechanical balancing mechanism based on the gyroscopic effect: two large turning wheels keep the unit upright, and when you lean to one side or the other, the front wheel, which is pivoted, actually turns into the direction of the lean, simultaneously providing a turning and self righting function.
It's amazingly fun! You ought to ride one someday.
They come in models that go fast enough to keep up with the fastest hiway traffic, and are quickly and easily 'recharged' at any widely available automobile service center.
try { do() || do_not(); } catch (JediException err) { yoda(err); }
Bikes are good for exercising, commuting/running errands, and sightseeing.
Segways are only good for sightseeing.
I see the occasional Segway in Manhattan. Not on the streets or sidewalks, like the photos in the press release show. On the bike paths. Yes, for $4500 you too can ride around bike paths without actually getting any exercise. (If you don't mind getting dusted by all the cyclists, that is.)
http://www.sinclairc5.com
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So quit your job, pack your bags, and move on out to snow country!
What's not to like?
I am a Statistician. One false move and you are a Statistic.
I am a Statistician. One false move and you are a Statistic
Why not just put a third wheel and an electric motor on razor scooters? It'll be chaper, balance just as well, and will appeal to wide audiences just as the original razor scooter did.
Something like That, or how about Garlic.
Hmm, somehow I don't think that very many people will get that joke. Ah well, I've already typed this far, might as well hit submit.
You killed it! Slashdotted the site. You swines.
bored and underpaid
- Invented world's first pocket calculator
- Developed the digital wristwatch
- Developed the pocket TV
This is ignoring his bringing of the computer to Joe Public in a pretty affordable way (Sinclair ZX80/81/Spectrum marketed as some Timex or other in the US).His comments are probably as worthy of listening to as Dean Kamen's. Oh and if you want to have a go at him, you might have to get through any person using a continuous drug infusion device, commonly used by people as insulin pumps now...
If people are commuting, you have a housing/planning problem. The resulting transport problems are just symptoms.
Government of the people, by corporate executives, for corporate profits.
I thought it was the other way round, that he was going to build up through C10, C15 until finally the C20, which was going to be the proper car.
That's actually where his marketing really broke down, in my view. In the specialist press he'd mentioned these plans, and that the C5 was simply a first step to test the waters. However in the mainstream press it was announced that Sinclair would be bringing out an electric car...so when it appeared everyone just laughed. Also, as has been said many times before, launching it in January was not clever. Had he launched it as a fun summer-type thing in July, it might have done better.
Or it might not.