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Flavor vs. Flavour
An anonymous reader writes "A recent flamewar ensued on the Linux kernel mailing list, this time debating the proper spelling of 'flavor', or is it 'flavour'? Even Linux creator Linus Torvalds joined the fray with some rather humorous comments. For the most part, it sounds like spellings will stay as they are, but it makes for an entertaining read."
flavor vs. flavour.
Next!
As far as I understand center and centre are different words not different spellings. Centre is like "The Medical Centre" - a building, while Center is "The Center of Town" - a location.
It removes ambiguity, i.e "The Town Centre" means a building called the "Town Centre" not the Center of Town.
NZ Electronics Enthusiasts: Check out my Trade Me Listings
As you can see, one part of this header is spelled with a u and the other without. This could create some developer confusion.
I'm no expert but there is a good description of differences in the variants of English here
M aj or_Dialects_of_English
http://www.wikipedia.org/wiki/English_language#
"Compared to British English, American English is conservative in its phonology. It is often claimed that certain rural areas in North America speak "Elizabethan English," but in fact the standard American English of the upper Midwest has a sound profile much closer to seventeenth century English than the current speech of England has."
"American English has some small differences from British English. American English has both spelling and grammatical differences from British English, some of which were made as part of an attempt to rationalize the English spelling used by British English at the time. Unlike many 20th century language reforms (e.g., Turkey's alphabet shift, Norway's spelling reform) the American spelling changes were not driven by government, but by textbook writers and dictionary makers.
The first American dictionary was written by Noah Webster in 1828. At the time America was a relatively new country and Webster's particular contribution was to show that the region spoke a different dialect from Britain, and so he wrote a dictionary with many spellings differing from the standard. Many of these changes were initiated unilaterally by Webster.
Webster also argued for many "simplifications" to the idiomatic spelling of the period. Somewhat ironically, many, although not all, of his simplifications fell into common usage alongside the original versions, resulting in a situation even more confused than before.
Many words are shortened and differ from other versions of English. Words such as center are used instead of centre in other versions of English. And there are many other variations. "
You know it's easy to think of dictionaries as having always been here, but the quintessential dictionary of the English language, the Oxford English Dictionary (OED), was published in 1923, almost ONE HUNDRED YEARS AFTER Webster's dictionary.
We could argue for years over when dictionary-writing became serious, but most people would probably cite Samuel Johnson's dictionary, published in 1755, about 75 years before Websters. Note that it included only spellings, not definitions.
My real point is this -- it's just an incorrect assumption to think of this as an example of Americans changing things for the sake of change.
Think about it-- we're still measuring stuff in feet, quarts, and pounds, for God's sake.
At the point when Webster created his dictionary, the concept that there WAS such a thing as a "correct" spelling was just beginning to take hold.
There's lots of real things to blame on the United States-- you don't have to make up false stuff. And when you do, well -- aren't you doing exactly what annoys you the most about Americans in the first place?
Who is RTFM and when will he help me with Unix?
There was a good reason for the change. An example in the discussion was like this:
1357: rpc_authflavor_t authflavour;
which means that there are inconsistencies in the variable naming, which could lead to confusion later on.
Vote for global prefs bug
Huh? You're kidding?
Are you from Alberta?
In the four provinces I've lived in, it's centre. Noun, verb, whatever. I suppose you color in between the lines with your coloured pencils too?
Very common misconception.
Unfortunately, sir, you are incorrect. Up here in Canada, as you put it, centre is always spelled -re unless one is referring to an object in the United States.
We still centre our sights on targets, albeit without handguns. Americans are the only ones who center anything.
As far as objects go, yes, Med Centre remains as such, although, the Kennedy Space Center is spelled in the American fashion.
Urban Detail
>>Webster started changing shit just cause he could.
Keep in mind that I've looked up several words in the OED over the course of this discussion, and en *every case* the current US spelling was around earlier than Webster. Case in point: "flavor" dates to no later than 1641, and pollibly as early as the 1300s, though I doubt my reading of the entry as far as that in concerned (however, if correct, "flavor" predates "flavour"). Same goes with center, color, and favor.
As a US citizen, I for one don't recognize(-se) Webster's as my standard...I much prefer the New Oxford American Dictionary, (2001). Webster's just seems a little to casual and not as rigorously researched and edited. Besides, the N.O.A.D. is from the same organization as the Oxford English Dictionary, the British standard, so it is IMHO in the best position to illustrate the American vs. British language variants.
Which, BTW, the New Oxford American Dictionary specifies flavor only, with a parenthetical note that the British spelling happens to be flavour. But in American English, flavour is not an acceptable spelling.
On a side note, the web community seems to need help with their spelling too. Consider:
Perhaps you missed it, but Scotland became part of the British Union in 1707.
I think you will find that the Canadian licence/license (noun/verb) distinction is the same as the standard British English one, at least that's what they taught me at school some 30-odd years ago.
Actually, the Academie Francaise was started by Richelieu under Louis XIII, two centuries before Napoleon. (unfortunately, Slashdot is stripping my properly spelled acute accents and cedillas).
Which makes the population to like 5%..
Math skills man!
We could argue for years over when dictionary-writing became serious, but most people would probably cite Samuel Johnson's dictionary, published in 1755, about 75 years before Websters. Note that it included only spellings, not definitions.
There are are so many basic historico-linguistic errors running through this thread that I don't know where to start, but here's as good a one as any. Johnson's dictionary most emphatically DID include definitions. It would never have gained the status it did otherwise - indeed most of the interest in it today comes from its delightfully politically incorrect definitions. For example:
Oats: a grain which in England is given to horses, but in Scotland supports the people.
Pension: pay given to a state hireling for treason to his country
Patron: A wretch who supports with indolence, and is rewarded with flattery
Of course these are only partial definitons - Johnson also included more useful descriptions, together with examples of their use. It is this which makes Johnson's dictionary the true forebear of all English dictionaries.
The author of this post asserts his moral rights.
King James breaking away from Rome and starting the Anglican church
Please, please, please. It was HENRY VIII who broke with Rome and founded the Anglican church, because the Pope wouldn't give him a divorce. Between him and James I there were three other monarchs (Edward VI, Mary, Elizabeth I), four if you count Lady Jane Gray's brief "rule". I presume that the reason you think James I was responsible for Anglicanism is the King James Bible - though this was solidly plagiarised from Wycliff's much earlier work.
The author of this post asserts his moral rights.
Some (Northen) british accents put in a very soft glottal stop for double r as well as the more usual hard glottle stop for double-t. As in glo'al (glottal), bo'le (bottle). Perhaps the brit was from lancashire, and said squi'el, and the american heard squittel because his accent glottal stops tt.
This thread is getting further and further from linguistic reality...
They could do no worse than the old English that the English themselves had discarded...The reason most USian words are around earlier is because they're from pre-Norman Britain.
Let's test this hypothesis with a little Old English, the language of pre-Norman England. Here are the first five lines of Beowulf (no cluster jokes please), the best known work of Old English literature (using the modern alphabet since slashcode doesn't like Old English characters):
Hwaet, we gar-dena in geardagum,
theodcyninga thrym gefrunon,
hu tha aethelingas ellen fremedon!
oft Scyld Scefing sceathena threatum,
monegum maegthum meodosetla ofteah,
Now if you can recognise American English in there, I want some of whatever you're taking. The plain fact is that Old English is a completely "foreign" language to modern English speakers. The first texts we could recognise as English are 14th century (eg Chaucer), which are written in Middle English - which shares a similar grammar to moden English, but a very different vocabulary. From between the 11th and 14th centuries, when English took on a recognisable form, there are no written documents in English surviving, because the languages of the literate classes were French and Latin. Moreover, the major differences between US and British spelling are almost all in words deriving from French rather than OE. For example, Old English for colour is "beo" (couleur in French).
We Brits pronounce it -er and spell it -re.
On a lighter note, we Brits may spell "-re", but we don't pronounce "er", unless you're from the West Country. it's "centa" through & thru.
Oh, and if you want to know how Beowulf opens on modern english:
LO, praise of the prowess of people-kings
of spear-armed Danes, in days long sped,
we have heard, and what honor the athelings won!
Oft Scyld the Scefing from squadroned foes,
from many a tribe, the mead-bench tore,
The author of this post asserts his moral rights.
"Flavour" is the British spelling, "flavor" is the American spelling.
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