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Microsoft Stops Development Of Outlook Express

Jman314 writes "According to a ZDNet story, Microsoft will cease development of their Outlook Express email client. "The technology doesn't go away, but no new work is being done. It is consumer email in an early iteration, and our investment in the consumer space is now focused around Hotmail and MSN. That's where we're putting the emphasis in terms of new investment and new development work." says Dan Leach, lead product manager for Microsoft's information worker product management group. Microsoft's alternatives include, not surprisingly, the full version of Outlook."

59 of 769 comments (clear)

  1. Thank God... by Ataeagina · · Score: 1, Insightful

    and good ridance.

    --
    We're siamese children created by heart. Nothing, nothing can tear us apart.
  2. Does That Include Patches? by Myriad · · Score: 3, Insightful
    but no new work is being done.

    What's that sound? Ahhhhh, worm and exploit writers around the world can rejoicing...

    I they've got them to stop development.

    Blockwars: go play.

    --
    "They do not preach that their god will rouse them, a little before the Nuts work loose." Kipling, 'The Sons of Martha'
  3. Good! by Roguelazer · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Maybe this will cause peopel to realize that Internet Explorer and Outlook Express AREN'T the only way to use the internet. With any luck, mozilla and its ilk should be seeing a lot more customers once the EOL for Internet Explorer 6 and Outlook Express 6 hits and Microsoft either A) Requires a new version of windows for new features or B) Requires MSN subscription, both of which are alternatives that home and small business users (and probably large business users too) won't want. So let's make sure we have a very user-friendly product with plenty of advertising, eh?

  4. Great... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Insightful

    So OE will never be able to filter by header, forcing people to live with spam. It's just like IE - leave some critical, easy to add features missing, then stop development. It's like they're trying to annoy people into upgrading to a new version of windows to get the latest email client and web browser.

  5. No more hotmail support... by BrynM · · Score: 5, Insightful

    There goes the best Hotmail client there ever was. Treat hotmail just like e-mail without paying for premium POP3 service. Oh well.

    --
    US Democracy:The best person for the job (among These pre-selected choices...)
  6. No Loss by grennis · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Outlook express is a weak email client anyway, and it has no support for automation or external API's except "simple" MAPI which is anything but, and WAB - Windows Address Book - which basically forces you to write spaghetti code to use it...

  7. bundling strategy? by rgoldste · · Score: 2, Insightful

    MS might now bundle Hotmail and/or MSN and/or Office (including Outlook) with Windows as the "consumer email client." Possibly a far-out guess, but given MS's history, it wouldn't surprise me.

  8. Sad news... by carlcmc · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Don't start up your flamebait moderation yet. I think this is sad news. OE has been my favorite email client for a long time. It starts quick, has message rules etc, and is easy to use. Yes there are other clients, but I will miss it.

    Outlook is to large and too slow to start. I have a key on my keyboard for email, and I like to hit the key and have the results within seconds as opposed to tens of seconds.

  9. More profit by dj961 · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Cancelling development is obviously an attempt at moving people to either Outlook or Hotmail/MSN, either of witch would yield more profit for Microsoft.

  10. ISP techs rejoice? by Highlordexecutioner · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Now techs at ISP's will have to support users trying to use another client. That will make them happy.
    Of course most techs just walk people through the Setup wizard. So they will just have to find another way.

    --
    Where am I going and why am I in this handbasket?
  11. I don't blame them... by conan_albrecht · · Score: 2, Insightful
    I support email for a few users, and by far, web mail is really nice (Go for IMP):
    1. It's the easiest to administer and support.
    2. In my experience, consumer/home users prefer web mail anyway.
    3. It's easier to secure. Just use HTTPS, which everyone knows how to use. No need for IMAP/POP3 over SSL.
    4. Users can access their mail through their browser (doesn't IE == internet? :)
    I'm no fan of MS, but I have to agree with their decision on this one.
    1. Re:I don't blame them... by conan_albrecht · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Remember, this is for end/home users, not for power users.

      Home users don't care about long term storage of attachments or mail.

      Home users don't care for multiple accounts.

      Home users don't want rich features.

      Home users don't care or even understand about html vs. text email.

      Personally, I agree with you. I'd never use web mail myself as my primary mail access. But (yes, I realize I'm generalizing) typical home users aren't us.

  12. Re:they want to focus on webmail... by Drakonian · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Yes.... I think they will call it.... I know! "Internet Explorer"!

    --
    Random is the New Order.
  13. Re:To all my users... by EvilTwinSkippy · · Score: 1, Insightful

    Yeah, and try explaining that to Joe Service Pack.

    --
    "Learning is not compulsory... neither is survival."
    --Dr.W.Edwards Deming
  14. Methinks it is bad.. by Dr+Reducto · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Who in their right mind would want all their email on MS servers?

  15. Sucks! by techwiz007 · · Score: 3, Insightful

    I really liked OE, even though it had its plethora of security issues. It was not as bloated as Outlook, and believe it or not is a really good email client. Clean and simple enough so our older employees can handle it. I don't think I want to upgrade our workstations to use Outlook, should look for a good replacement. Any nice, powerful and free email clients out there?

  16. Yes, by mao+che+minh · · Score: 3, Insightful
    Yes, and it also launched viruses and worms effortlessly (even simple ones written in VB script), which made people like us have to work extra hours to clean up messes.

    Don't worry though, Microsoft will find new ways to make IT staffers suffer.

  17. Re:they want to focus on webmail... by billsf · · Score: 2, Insightful

    If you like mail the real way, there is "Mutt" and other Unix mailers. "Webmail" is slow, unwieldly and totally insecure. Then you have little shits like Microsoft that actually dare to claim your mail their IP! Get a life and mail online.....

  18. Re:This may not be such a bad thing by El+Cubano · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Maybe we'll see less VBS worms getting spread around. That assumes they yank out OE from Windows.

    Considering the lackluster rates of adoption for MS's newest offerings, I would say the danger will be there for a very long time to come. Just look at how many people still run 98. I have a friend who spent a lot of money on a gaming rig, lots of RAM, powerful video card. You know what he did? He tossed his old machine, popped in his Win 98SE CD and off he went.

    Since most home users see 98 as pretty much everything they need (and we are almost done with 2003, so it a five year old OS) it will be a while untill it goes away.

  19. No terrific surprise. by tambo · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Consider: What does Outlook Express allow one to do? Well, for no more than the cost of Windows, the user gets an email client that allows them to fetch data from a POP server and store it on their hard drives.

    Now think about Microsoft's "next-gen tech" initiatives. Let's see, there's three, really:

    1) Blackcomb, which promises an explosion of metadata (read: data bloat) and phenomenal background cycle usage (read: mandatory hardware upgrades) for not much user benefit. (Have you looked at how much metadata is stored in the "Properties" pages of a Word XP document? Good grief, there's tons. Now how often do you use that? Roughly... never? Bingo.) Not really any connection here.

    2) Trusted Computing/Palladium. Again, not much connection here. (Interesting that when MS says it's interested in protecting copyrighted works, it means media distributors' copyrighted works... not the copyrights that you own regarding the email that you write, which is open for pilferage by Outlook worm du jour.)

    3) Hailstorm. DINGDINGDING! We have a winner.

    An' it goes a little somethin' like dis:

    Microsoft has realized that it can't easily sell many more upgrades of Windows or Office. The "more stable Windows" line has been exhausted from re-use. The Office paperclip is already in 3D and can't be improved more. So, to continue reaping monopoly profits, they want to move sofware to the rental model. They drop the initial price on their software, but bill you monthly for the rest of your life, and for the same software.

    Now - how can it do that? If they give you the software, they can't prevent you from using some dirty h@x0r trick to crack it and then stop paying. So, they retain much program functionality on MS's servers. You no longer own a functional copy of Word. You just own an input/output web interface to their copy of Word.

    But while they're on this track - while they're pushing you to surrender your software to MS - why not convince you to surrender your documents to MS as well? They'll store the data on their servers. It will always be accessible (so long as you pay your licensing fees like a good little serf), and you don't have to worry about hard drive crashes or data loss (disclaimer: no guarantees, understand; you waived your rights through shrink-wrap.) So now you can't switch to some dirty pirate-OS like Linux without forfeiting all of your data.

    Of course, Hailstorm died a PR-debacle death, because users aren't quite that stupid (or more accurately, tech-savvy users anticipated their treachery.) But Microsoft's dreams of rental pricing didn't die. After all, they have no other real improvements to offer for their core products.

    Hence, no more Outlook Express.

    Where's the tie? Easy. OE allowed you to store your mail on your server. But of course, Hotmail and MSN store your data on their servers. It's prepping you for the day when all of your data is on their servers.

    Welcome to the future. Prepare to be assimilated.

    David Stein, Esq.

    --
    Computer over. Virus = very yes.
  20. Just wait Long and horny is coming! by ratfynk · · Score: 2, Insightful

    When Longhorn comes out we are looking at a different ball game. No more security problems no more stupid users not patching no more need to worry if the Inet content is not certified, it just will not run. Good old Bill will make sure everything that ever gets on your computer is safe for you. After all that is what the trusted computing initiative is all about. Take back all control of the computer from the user. Hot Mail for all running on trusted BSD servers, the RIAA happy that you cannot get around security, and a nice big hole there for the government and their trusted computing partner MS to keep tabs on you, and your dangerous communication device sucker!

    --
    OH THE SHAME I fell off the wagon and use sigs again!
  21. Re:they want to focus on webmail... by bofkentucky · · Score: 4, Insightful

    I'll take 128-bit RSA over plaintext IMAP, POP3, and SMTP anyday. Joe Six Pack isn't sophisticated enough to use GPG/PGP or Client side certs, most ISP's don't offer TLS mail services, but that little lock icon keeps his pr0n, email forwards, and industrial espionage from being snooped by big brother.

    --
    09f911029d74e35bd84156c5635688c0
  22. Re:they want to focus on webmail... by finkployd · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Slow and unwieldy I'll give you, but insecure? Just about every webmail I've seen has been on an https connection, which is lightyears more secure than pop3 and imap, which is what just about everyone uses. Sure there are a handfull of secure pop and secure imap servers out there but look at what just about every ISP/university/corporation offers?

    Finkployd

  23. Nothing new. by dtfinch · · Score: 2, Insightful

    They had already announced that they discontinued development of IE.

    My predictions:
    Soon they will put a Hotmail icon on the standard Windows desktop which will be protected from removal or hiding by the EULA. It will come with the newest Media Player or MSN Messenger. Future versions of Windows will be cheaper, at least the home edition, but the product activation will require an ongoing passport account, which, two years later, will require a monthly membership fee.

  24. Big Deal by Deathlizard · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Frankly, Other than adding Outlook's stupid "Block all Attachments" Feature and setting the Security Zone to restriced by default, Something that should of been done in the first place I might add, OE hasn't changed that much since it was introduced.

    The only thing that OE really needed was a Spam filter, but since Blue Mountain Arts forced MS to throw that into the toilet there isn't much else it needs that can be added.

    It's simple and it works well, and it all most people need.

  25. Re:Read between the lines by billsf · · Score: 4, Insightful

    HotMail and MSN are spam by definition. I suggested at CCC Camp that all "no body mail + html is spam", explaining that it is not necessarily my idea and got booed. A happy note is one of the people that made this all possible (that is Unix ofcourse) showed support in this method while strongly balking at other filtering methods as 'censorship'.

    If you were there you know who i am and who was sitting next to me. It really is true that if html is not allowed as a 'mail medium' the spammers will not be allowed to show their presentations and/or direct you to dangerous sites. It is really that simple and if Outlook is out of the picture, spam has the great setback that has been a long time coming. This is a serious note BTW.

  26. think long-term, people by BigGerman · · Score: 5, Insightful

    They stop developing "conventional" email client because they don't need it.
    OE is simple and standards-based (pop, imap) client, works like a charm with Unix mailservers. Why MS would need it?
    Instead, they do their standard embrace-and-extend trick -
    customer is fed up with insecurity of traditional email and spam?
    Fine, we are going to have new mail client built right-into the OS, working some proprietary protocol against Exchange backend (for corp users) or against monstrous SQL Server / .net/passport clusters for consumers.
    No need to download another client just like with the browser. And guess what - in a little while SMTP/POP3/IMAP will become a niche, because everyone will have MS supermail on their desktops.
    They are trying to do to email what IIS was going to do to the web - quetly and gradually replace open protocols.
    Apache stopped IIS from monopolizing the web. What is going to stop this one?

  27. Re:To all my users... by norculf · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Nice job missing the point entirely. The alternative isn't Outlook, it's MSN and Hotmail. Outlook Express has the feature of letting people use it for any email account, whereas Microsoft would prefer you to use MSN or Hotmail only. Including an email client that can connect to any POP3 or IMAP4 account is not consistant with their new policy of wanting people to use MSN or Hotmail.

  28. what are the alternatives? by dbc001 · · Score: 2, Insightful

    I know people sometimes get annoyed to see redundant posts like this, but it would be wise to list the alternatives every time articles like this are posted (mail clients, ogg vorbis players, alternative browsers). At least mention the alternatives and some pros and cons.

    Even here on slashdot, there are people who are still using "the wrong products", and a friendly pointer to the alternatives may be just the thing to convert some non-believers. I myself am still using Outlook because I've never been satisfied with any alternatives, and I don't have the time to go testing all the options. But I would definitely benefit from the wisdom of the slashdot community (did i really say that?)

  29. Re:Read between the lines by Planesdragon · · Score: 5, Insightful

    It really is true that if html is not allowed as a 'mail medium' the spammers will not be allowed to show their presentations and/or direct you to dangerous sites. It is really that simple and if Outlook is out of the picture, spam has the great setback that has been a long time coming. This is a serious note BTW.

    You're wrong.

    Outlook is just one mail client. So long as HTML mail can be sent, it will be sent, and it will be used for spam--and for other things as well. It doesn't matter if every installation of Outlook suddenly vanishes tomorrow--there will still be HTML/MHTML mail, and there will still be spam.

    Of course, to remove HTML mail would require a level of effort such that a proper check on spam would be easier to implement.

  30. Yeah, but what about the backend? by gotr00t · · Score: 4, Insightful
    It is true that webmail usually has a frontend (the part that you see via your browser) that is secured with SSL, but the problem is, the server must recieve your message SOMEHOW. That is still through SMTP, and it is plaintext.

    You simply can't compare PGP to SSL because they are not used for the same thing. PGP is used for the secure transmission of the mail AND the final delivery, but SSL only protects the final delivery. To that extent, a lot of webmail providers don't even give you a choice to use PGP. Because the transmission is still through SMTP, and it is not secured by PGP, your information is not protected even if you use webmail.

    1. Re:Yeah, but what about the backend? by Pharmboy · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Wait a second, webmail does not require SMTP/port 25 to send mail. Your client isn't sending mail. Its basically sending a form to the server, via a CGI process (perl or php typically) and the SERVER uses port 25 to actually send it. You only need port 80 for insecure and 443 for secure webmail.

      I block port 25 on my home windows and linux boxes simply because if I DO get infected, at least my box won't send out to anyone else on 25, regardless of what program is trying to do it, including the virus itself. I have not used stunnel to ssl my mail yet, but that is in the works. But I know I am not using 25 on SquirrelMail, and I am sure with any webmail server.

      --
      Tequila: It's not just for breakfast anymore!
    2. Re:Yeah, but what about the backend? by bofkentucky · · Score: 4, Insightful

      You think UUNET or AT&T encrypts that traffic on transcontinental fiber runs? PGP is not a fair comparison but it is the least likely to be used by the general public. You can TLS/SSL POP/IMAP/Webmail all day long but that traffic is sent unencrypted over SMTP if it ever leaves your ISP's datacenter

      --
      09f911029d74e35bd84156c5635688c0
    3. Re:Yeah, but what about the backend? by yakovlev · · Score: 2, Insightful

      What it sounds like he's trying to say is that:

      A.) He trusts the webmail server's connection to be more free from eavesdropping than his own. This is in a sense true as his mail will just be one among many, instead of all mail sent from his machine being his. This wouldn't be such an issue if most ISPs offered encrypted SMTP.

      B.) With webmail your password is never sent cleartext, which is another advantage over the typical non-ssl encrypted imap/pop3 servers. This again is more a statement about lack of encryption at most ISPs than about a webmail technical advantage.

      C.) Using webmail allows him to firewall off outbound port 25. This provides some security advantages, espescially in the area of intrusion detection.

      While I don't think these marginal security advantages outweigh the benefits of downloadable mail, they are real.

  31. No, not "good!" by fmaxwell · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Maybe this will cause peopel to realize that Internet Explorer and Outlook Express AREN'T the only way to use the internet. With any luck, mozilla and its ilk should be seeing a lot more customers once the EOL for Internet Explorer 6 and Outlook Express 6 hits

    My primary browswer is Mozilla. My second choice is Opera. Internet Explorer is a distant third. I've got bootable Linux, *BSD, and BeOS OS systems. I'm no Microsoft shill.

    For e-mail clients, I had been using Outlook Express and just switched to Outlook in the last week. I have fairly demanding e-mail needs with several domains, multiple e-mail addresses, list subscriptions, and so forth. I tried quite a few shareware and public domain e-mail clients and found all of them lacking in one critical way or another. The list included the Mozilla e-mail client, Eudora, PocoMail, The Bat, and Pegasus Mail. Most had usability issues.

    At least two of the clients pretended to have imported all of my messages in all of the folders (probably about 70,000 messages for the last 7 years sent and received) only to have failed to import a substantial portion of them. No error messages were displayed during the import process. Sorry, but that's a no-go. I'm unwilling to give up my message archive for professional and legal reasons. Nor am I willing to trust a program that would silently fail in that manner.

    In those years, I have never contracted a virus, trojan horse, or worm through Outlook Express. I kept it patched and up-to-date. I had it set to use the "Restricted Sites" security setting which disabled such things as scripting, Java, ActiveX, .NET, and so forth. I normally kept OE6 set to display messages as plain text, disabling HTML. I've heard plenty of whining about Outlook Express security, but the majority of "security" issues were caused by idiots opening executable attachments.

    All of that said, I'm not blind to the faults of Outlook or Outlook Express. It was idiotic for Microsoft to include scripting of any kind for incoming messages. What were they thinking? Making an e-mail client that would retrieve from web sites without the user's permission was responsible for many people telling spammers "hey, my address is live!" The inability in OE to pick up from multiple mailboxes and have each go to its own folder is a glaring fault. There are, of course, other flaws and foibles.

    All in all, though, Outlook Express was a damned good e-mail client for me. It had a well-designed user interface, was reliable, and served my purposes, and those of millions of other users, very well. Maybe this will spur on the development of other clients to the point that they rival or exceed Outlook Express, but right now, OE6 is still one of the best Windows e-mail clients available.

    1. Re:No, not "good!" by jpkunst · · Score: 2, Insightful

      At least two of the clients pretended to have imported all of my messages in all of the folders (probably about 70,000 messages for the last 7 years sent and received) only to have failed to import a substantial portion of them. No error messages were displayed during the import process. Sorry, but that's a no-go. I'm unwilling to give up my message archive for professional and legal reasons. Nor am I willing to trust a program that would silently fail in that manner.

      It might be that the problem is not with the import function of the other mail clients, but with the OE mail database, which could be corrupt in some subtle way. When I moved from OE to Eudora (on an OS 9 Mac) I had to fight hard to extract all my mail from a corrupt OE mail database. I decided then to never use anything else but plain text files for e-mail archiving anymore.

      JP

    2. Re:No, not "good!" by fmaxwell · · Score: 2, Insightful

      I agree with you on most points, but calling OE "reliable" is not one of them.

      Different people have different experiences. Yours may not be typical (or mine may not). For me, it was reliable. I think that most users don't experience the problems that you describe for, if they did, I believe that there would be much more "chatter" on the net about it.

      Oh....and the import functions suck.

      I agree and extend that to most e-mail programs. E-mail database storage formats should have been standardized years ago. This crap of 50 different formats is incredibly annoying.

  32. They're doing everyone a favor, really by tkrotchko · · Score: 2, Insightful

    They're opening up the market for small, inexpensive email clients. I mean, if the alternative is full-blown office (to get Outlook), or web email, then it seems there's a big hole between the $0, lousy Hotmail interface, and the $400 MS Office interface.

    --
    You were mistaken. Which is odd, since memory shouldn't be a problem for you
    1. Re:They're doing everyone a favor, really by pixelgeek · · Score: 2, Insightful

      -- They're opening up the market for small, inexpensive email clients.

      Don't think so. All they are doing is trying to move people to Hotmail, AFAIK the basic version of Hotmail is free and if the "email" icon on the Desktop of the default Windows install leads to a personalised Hotmail account based on th info in your MSN Messenger account then I am willing to bet that people will use it...and not go hunting for a third-party app.

  33. Re:Read between the lines by billsf · · Score: 3, Insightful

    It may be true that Outlook is one mail client for those that don't want to mail online. Religion is stupidity -- agreed.

    Simply stated, all i'm trying to say is that if HTML is not allowed in mail, the husksters of today have lost a powerful tool. Do you know about 'one pixel images?' These, when used with Outlook can tell the UCE exploiter when you read your mail, how long you spent on it and if you read it again and when all this happened! Do you care in the least about your privacy online? "Would you trust these people and Microsoft with your wallet?" This is just a metaphor, but putting your creditcard to a IIS server is the same as giving it out to twenty or more 'script kiddies'.

    Wake up, it really is a war zone out there. The Internet with M$ is not the 'friendly' place it was twenty years ago or more when we all thought we had a great idea.

  34. Re:Good news for Evolution! by pixelgeek · · Score: 5, Insightful

    -- Wizards for the lame, and straight forward for us techs?

    Don't you think it would be better if they wrote straight forward apps for everyone so you didn't need wizards in the first place?

    The need for "wizards" is a sign of usability problems.

  35. Re:they want to focus on webmail... by vandan · · Score: 1, Insightful
    Just about every webmail I've seen has been on an https connection, which is lightyears more secure than pop3 and imap, which is what just about everyone uses

    Hardly. The POP3 and IMAP connections you describe, that "just about everyone uses" are between the user and their ISP, over a modem connection. Whether they use plain text or not is beside the point, because the traffic never gets on the 'net - just over the phone lines. So that makes them more secure than your HTTPS which is easily interceptible and only needs to have the encryption cracked.

    If you're not talking about modem-to-modem traffic, then you really should be using IMAP over SSL etc.
  36. Re:What? by fmaxwell · · Score: 4, Insightful

    I'm assuming this was modded funny because it's so stupid.

    If that was how messages were rated, yours would have been a +5 Funny.

    Bundling software was illegal because everyone uses Windows, so they were leveraging their monopoly.

    And now they want to leverage their monopoly on Windows to get people to use Hotmail and MSN -- two Microsoft online services that compete with other companies' offerings.

    Not everyone uses MSN, in fact probably less than 1/4 of computer users do, so it's not illegal.

    There was a time when "probably less than 1/4 of computer users" chose Internet Explorer as their browser, but Microsoft's bundling of that browser changed that.

    If OE sucks, then the consumer is free to change to something else.

    No they are not. The average consumer does not know where to find another mail client. They don't know how to install it. They don't know how to configure it. They think that 99% of the software downloaded over the net has viruses in it or is part of some clever ploy to steal their credit card number. They are scared that installing new software will "break" their computer and that they will have to take the computer back to Best Buy, pay the service department $150, and then find out that the "tech" wiped their hard drive and did a fresh install of Windows to "fix" the problem. If it's so damned easy to "change to something else", why did Netscape go ballistic when Microsoft started bundling IE with Windows and why is IE now the dominant browser?

    But your last sentence makes no sense anyway in the context of this discussion. The point of this discussion is that Microsoft is discontinuing OE and is, instead, pushing future Windows users to sign up for MSN/Hotmail. So there won't be a version of OE, whether it sucks or not.

  37. More "embrace and extend" borg crap by raw-sewage · · Score: 5, Insightful
    This is a stretch, but I think this is another Microsoft ploy to own email: let's kill Outlook Express, then concentrate on getting everyone on Outlook, MSN and/or Hotmail. Unfortunately, between their marketing and obscenely huge cash reserves, they might be able to pull this off. Or at least, let's get an identifiable critical few hooked on these systems and change the standard to Microsoft proprietary. Microsoft would be so happy if it could start to whittle away the number of people not using Microsoft products to read their email.

    I wish that a few large, influential companies would stand up to Microsoft and call them on their lame business strategy: closed, proprietary standards that keep everyone else out of the game. Microsoft simply does not compete on innovation. Why doesn't this get more press? Why does the main stream media not criticize Microsoft more often? They appear to be going out of their way to keep data formats and protocols both closed and unnaturally complex just to keep other systems out of the game. I think that alone says that they recognize that their software is not superior!

    I work at a large Fortune 100 company and we use Lotus Notes as our groupware. I hate Lotus Notes: it has the worst user interface I've ever encountered, is fairly buggy, and just generally kind of sucks. Everyone at work wishes we'd switch to Outlook! In my mind, that's the only advantage Lotus Notes has: it's not Outlook! That's all Microsoft wants: a few large influential companies to use Outlook so they can play the vendor lock-in card, start changing standards, and have another Office-like monopoly on their hands... but with email.

    The Internet Explorer monopoly is scary enough. Now Microsoft is working on email. Microsoft is working very hard at destroying the openness of the Internet; they want to own the Internet.

  38. Feature in OE that I can't find in any client by mikeage · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Ok... I still use Outlook Express... for one reason. I have several IMAP servers (yes, all over SSL), and in OE, I have them set to syncronize all messages, without having to go offline. I know this is not exactly the main use of IMAP, but I like it-- I don't have to download a message each and every time I view it. No, it's not a speed (bandwidth) issue-- but a latency one. Even over my home network, if it has to hit the server for each message, it's not as fast as if it's cached locally. Evolution doesn't do this, nor does Thunderbird, so far as I can tell. Or do they? And if so, how?

    P.S. Please no "feature = bug in OE that I can't find anywhere else" replies. There's enough threads with those already.

    --
    -- Is "Sig" copyrighted by www.sig.com?
  39. Re:Read between the lines by Talez · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Do you know about 'one pixel images?'

    Apparently Microsoft does and hence Outlook 2003 filters images out by default to protect privacy. That being said, its merely a one click effort to put the images back in.

    Imagine that, a sensible idea to get the best of both worlds that doesn't involve putting a blanket ban on HTML mail.

  40. Re:(signature reply) by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful

    R: I'll pay $1 to that foreigner we just hired at our new overseas location to take over your job

    What? Believe me, outsourcing crosses political lines...

  41. good timing by SKPhoton · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Once the RPC/DCOM vulnerability is released and a worm spreads rapidly through the internet, Microsoft announces it will no longer work on the email client it bundles with its own operating systems. "Microsoft executives are hoping those users will now switch to the full-blown Outlook client (and pay for an Office licence in the process)."

    I guess Microsoft isn't taking the joke in the WinBlast virus too seriously. "billy gates why do you make this possible? Stop making money and fix your software!!"

  42. While we're talking about mail clients.. by ProtonMotiveForce · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Why the hell aren't there any good, modern CypherPunk/Mixmaster/Nym enabled clients out there? The only good one I know of is Jack B Nymble, which is ancient.

    I've seriously thought of writing a new one from scratch in Java, but I'm way, way too lazy.

  43. Re:Good news for Evolution! by Slarty · · Score: 5, Insightful

    OK, I'll bite... I would love to know who this "design rule" is attributed to, because having "two modes of operation" like what you're suggesting is demonstrably not a good thing. (I'd cite sources but it's late, and hey, you didn't.)

    It's not at all impossible to have an application that's accessible to both beginners and expert users. It's just that the beginners need a bit more hand-holding: dialog boxes, explicit menu items, etc... while experts, in a well-designed app, should be able to accomplish stuff faster and more efficiently via direct manipulation, shortcut keys, and operations that are a bit more hidden to new users. But you don't *hide* advanced options, and you definitely don't have two modes... keep the advanced options there, and make as much stuff reversible as possible so users will feel more comfortable poking around and trying things to get the hang of it. In most apps today, much more is technically undo-able than apps generally allow.

    And keep in mind that beginners and expert users are both in the minority for the kind of complicated, probably often-used application like an e-mail client. The majority of users will be some level of intermediate, since beginners don't stay beginners forever, but most don't ever become experts. It's your basic bell-curve thing. But if you think about it like that it doesn't make sense to design only for one extreme or the other, or as you're suggesting, both.

    Anyway, I'm just spouting Alan Cooper here... go get About Face 2.0 and read it. You will learn much. He's usually right on the money, even if he does have a tendency to point out all the stuff Microsoft does right (and yes, they do many things right UI-wise, which makes sense when you remember that they spend way more money on usability testing than anyone else.)

    Anyway, bedtime for me.

    --
    Hi... I'm Larry... the shivering chipmunk... brrrrr!... I'm cold... I need a sweater...
  44. Re:What? by fmaxwell · · Score: 2, Insightful

    How exactly are they leveraging their monopoly to do this? Windows doesn't come with anything related to Hotmail or MSN, idiot.

    You are an ignorant turd, aren't you? Windows puts MSN icons on desktops, they make MSN the ad-splattering homepage for IE, they repeatedly ask if you have, or want to sign up for, a Hotmail account. Try reading this before you make more of a fool of yourself.

    Exactly. Neither MSN or Hotmail are bundled, so they're irrelevant, and you're completely incapable of thought.

    You are so incredibly stupid that it is no wonder that you post anonymously. If you had read the article, you would have seen that it said: It is consumer email in an early iteration, and our investment in the consumer space is now focused around Hotmail and MSN. That's where we're putting the emphasis in terms of new investment and new development work."

    That means that Hotmail or MSN sign-up will be a big part of Windows install, that both MSN and Hotmail will be even more prominently pushed through IE (remember, IE ships with MSN as its homepage), and consumers will be left to either do the easy thing and sign up for MSN/Hotmail or try to hunt down an e-mail client and another service.

    You're completely ignorant of the common user. Most common users I know are smarting than you, even, because at least they're capable of rational thought.

    You wouldn't know an intelligent person if they hit you in the face -- and I'd like to be the guy to prove that. You calling me stupid is like Woody Allen calling Arnold Schwarzenegger wimpy.

    OE was bundled,

    And won't be any more.

    that's how it's relevant to your post.

    Wrong. We are talking about what happens now that OE is End Of Life, not what Microsoft did in the past.

    MSN and Hotmail are services, so can't be bundled

    Yes, services can be bundled with the OS. When the install asks if you want to sign up for a Hotmail account, the browser's homepage is an ad for MSN, the desktop includes a sign-up-for-MSN icon, and the system automatically starts up MSN Messenger, that's pushing the services down the users' throats and leveraging the monopoly power of Windows to do so. Are you even aware that:

    AOL made a deal with Compaq to place an AOL icon on the desktop, and pay Compaq $35 for each AOL account sign-up it generated. In response, Microsoft announced that any OEM who put icons on the desktop must also put on an icon for MSN (Microsoft's service that competes with AOL) and Microsoft Media Player. That put AOL in the position of paying for Microsoft's advertising. Compaq stated that they will have no choice but to comply because of Microsoft's monopoly power. The Justice Department even investigated this as part of their anti-trust case against Microsoft.

    Now go away little boy.

  45. Re:Not just a client, but a protocol is being drop by babbage · · Score: 3, Insightful

    But dropping the protocol is the story!

    If things do go according to my interpretation, then the relevance of open protocols like IMAP, POP, and SMTP will be diminished, and the end result will be that all non-Microsoft mail software (both client & server) will be crowded out. This is a doomsday scenario, and I don't expect it to be quite that bad, but it seems obvious to me that this is what Microsoft is pushing for.

    I think it would have been fair to press them on this angle in the article, as the significance of this is far greater than the mere discontinuation of a particular piece of software. But it sounds like you did put some thought into this, so I'll accept that it was your call to make... :-)

  46. Re:Read between the lines by KindAloysiusX · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Any image can be used as a tracking device, it doesn't have to be a 1x1 pixel size image to track you.
    That is why Outlook 2003 blocks ALL images by default.

  47. Re:they want to focus on webmail... by RoLi · · Score: 2, Insightful
    I think you forget:
    • 70% of webservers run Apache/Unix
    • Outside USA, both MSN and AOL are neglectible in marketshare
    • Millions of PS3 users won't use IE
    • Even more Millions of cellphone users won't use IE
    • Linux making inroads on the desktop

    Sorry, but with Microsoft being forced to support TCP/IP and HTML, they have lost the browser wars. The current domination of IE won't hold for long.

  48. Re:Read between the lines by AndroidCat · · Score: 3, Insightful
    how long you spent on it

    Hmm, the fetch can be tagged. But how do they get any information when you close the email?

    --
    One line blog. I hear that they're called Twitters now.
  49. Re:they want to focus on webmail... by OmniVector · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Not when you manage a webserver and mailserver yourself, and can put a free webmail program on the webserver. I couldn't live without webmail sometimes, especially on the go. It's actually easy to set up even if all you have is the webserver portion. If your mail server supports imap and authenticated smtp, then you just need a machine that can run php/apache with a static ip.

    --
    - tristan
  50. Changed priorities by tprime · · Score: 2, Insightful

    The idea that you could get your buggy, insecure software for FREE with the purchase of the OS was too much for the Microsoft brass. You need to pay to have your PC vulnerable. Basically what this gets down to is that too many casual users were opting NOT to purchase Outlook as their POP3 mail clients in favor of, the stripped down but functional, Outlook Express. I expect to see an inexpensive (relatively speaking) stand-alone Outlook being actively marketed to fill the void in the future.

    --
    http://www.tomandemily.com
  51. Re:Read between the lines by ClubStew · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Perhaps, but you also stop a lot of valid uses as well. And let's not forget that there are plenty of *nix clients that display HTML mail as well. I guess it's all that anti-Microsoft propaganda again.

  52. Re:Tough Crowd. by jdgreen7 · · Score: 2, Insightful
    Minor nitpick:

    Every email worm out there is designed to pull from it's address book

    OE doesn't have an object model to be able to programatically retrieve the address book. Outlook definetly does, but OE does not. The most effective worms/viruses for OE were ones that were able to attach themselves to all outgoing messages undetected. None of them (to my knowledge, correct me if I'm wrong) were able to email everyone in your address book.