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Vonage Starts Charging 'Regulatory Recovery Fee'
slavitos writes "Vonage
sent an email announcing that starting with
'your next billing cycle, Vonage will begin to charge a Regulatory Recovery Fee of $1.50 per phone number. This is a fee that Vonage charges its customers to recover required costs of Federal and State Universal Service Funds as well as other related fees and surcharges. State and Federal agencies collect these fees from communications providers to fund public projects such as rural and library communications programs.' That could mean that Vonage is losing at least some ground in its battle against government VOIP regulations."
Why don't they just raise prices instead of charging a separate fee.
"That could mean that Vonage is loosing at least some ground in its battle against government VOIP regulations."
Looks like the only people losing ground are their customers.On the flipside, I don't understand how governments can possibly expect to tax such things, yahoo messenger can do voice chat, will we see taxes on that? What about the millions of other VoIP programs out there? Eventually the government will realize there are some things that you just can't regulate.
I would expect such blatant racism on Fark, but on Slashdot? Mods please ban this asshole.
You need to pay for things. Phone service isn't GNU/PhoneService --- IT'S NOT FREE.
Slightly off topic, but why is it that a company can pass the charges on to the end user whenever they have to pay a fee/fine?
If this spills over to other service industries, we'll be paying a 'fat guy sued us' tax on our McDonalds BigMac Meals... This has got to stop... it's one thing if the overall price for a service/product goes up to cover their costs, it's totally messed when they spell it out for you on a bill...
---
Programming is like sex... Make one mistake and support it the rest of your life.
I believe this just goes to show how good their service really is. They are not a tiny company in a garage anymore. They are big come competing with the likes of SBC, Verizon, and MCI.
Anyone else sick of people taxing technology?
I thought the idea was to improve things using technology, not tax the improvements so much that they're not improvements anymore.
Who agrees? I'll enjoy analyzing your responses.
Reply or e-mail; don't vaguely moderate. Ex-O'Reilly/MIT employee, now a full-time Google employee.
'losing' ;)
Funny, but Vonage already had a subscription cost before this.
State and Federal agencies collect these fees from communications providers to fund public projects such as rural and library communications programs Since customers are paying for it, the charge is on the customers, not the communications provider. Is the charge fixed per provider or based on number of customers they have? Coz if its a fixed a fee, then the provider having more cutomers will make money off this surcharge.
New year Resolution: Don't change sig this year
the unlimited Long Distance plan dropped today from $40 / month to $35 / month, the local plan dropped a buck from $26 to $25. Now I know why
I haven't gotten any emails yet, but I'm not surprised. I'm still waiting for them to get their act together in terms of getting my existing phone number transferred (The fax I sent them magically appeared when I threatened to end my patronage).
They seem to be so severely understaffed it makes my head spin. I have twice now sat on hold for over a half hour - at which point I am allowed to leave a message instead of speak to a real human being.
They clearly know their limitations, though, when I called to complain about how long it was taking to get my service up and running, they credited me a month before I could even launch into my bitch. All I could say was "habidah, whosiwhah, zibit.. I'm buying you a pizza!"
Finally, if their site stands up to the slashdot effect I'll be shocked to the core, as it's slow to begin with. I wonder if their VOIP has to make heavy use of their servers or if its more direct. If Slashdot can interrupt my phone service, I'll be ticked!
"Sometimes one pays most for the things one gets for nothing."
Well no matter what the money tends to go into the same pockets anyway. Would that be a force of nature or something? :)
Which would you prefer: "We're raising our prices, suckers!" or "We're not greedy, but we now have to pay the universal service fee, and we're passing that on you you"?
Unfortunately, the FCC permits telephone companies to charge absolutely anything they want to under the Federal Universal Service Fund category. In the U.S. your telephone company can (and does) charge you more than they have to pay into the FUSF, and they pocket the difference. If you complain to the FCC about being overcharged, the FCC will tell you that they only set "recommended" collection amounts, but that companies are free to charge what they wish, and that if you feel you are being overcharged, you can switch your local telephone company to a local competitor. Of course, you may only have one local provider.
Vonage, like most other companies, has simply realized that they can charge anything they want to and pocket the difference, and that the FCC will let them do it.
>> ...why is it that a company can pass the charges on to the end user...
Because the company can set its own prices. Taxes are a cost of doing business. If they go up, the company needs to recoup that cost one way or the other.
If you don't like it, stop paying for it,
Sheesh.
-- Slashdot: When Public Access TV Says "No"
First they lowered their base prices. I think it's a bit early to hate on vonage, it seems to me that they're trying pretty hard to be good to the customers, something the "big PSTN phone companies" have long forgotten how to do.
Some people don't seem to understand that any time a goverment tax/fee/regulation is created for a given industry or company, the cost is passed on to the consumer.
In some states, no food is taxed.
In some states, eat-in is taxed but no other food is.
In some states, all food is taxed.
In at least one state, all eat-in food is taxed, as is all take-out restaurant food that has been heated, fried, baked, cooked, or otherwise warmed expressly for the purpose of immediate consumption, but no other food is. So if you buy a meatball sub and a turkey sub at Subway and get them both to go, if you get them on separate checks, one is taxable and the other isn't.
In at least one state, all restaurant and prepared food is taxed, as is any food that is not deemed a *necessity*. It varies depending on whom you ask whether chocolate is in fact a necessity or not.
-fred
Sign #11 of Slashdot overdose: You see the phrase 'moderate Republican' and you wonder if that would be a +1 or a -1.
I'm sure i've said it before. Just tax the damn line, not the virtual connection.
To be fair, let's include cable, dsl, satalight, and other forms of two way communication systems which can be used for 2-way communications . While that would suck, it would save a hell of alot of bother with VoIP services which are out either out of state, or perhaps out of country.
Just taxing the endpoints of the physical line would solve juristion issues, and unfortunatly is the only means of taxing fairly.
After all, these taxes help support state and federal services such as libraries, who presently don't actually use VoIP service specificly, but DO use POTS lines and various forms of internet connections.
There is no sanctuary. There is no sanctuary. SHUT UP! There is no shut up. There is no shut up.
- Vonage gets sued to oblivion by phone companies
...
- People start using P2P VoIP phone applications en masse
- Phone companies start sending out subpoenas to ISPs to discover the real name/addresses of these evil phone call thieves.
- Phone companies sue 12 year old girl who was calling his grandfather and ask $15000 per stolen phone call
- Phone companies say VoIP technology is full of kiddie porn
Deja vu anybody ?
"A door is what a dog is perpetually on the wrong side of" - Ogden Nash
If telephone service used GNU/PhoneService, it would be robust, it would almost never crash, it would be very reliable and fast and you could use it with many different kinds of hardware.
On the other hand, the interface would be terrible, like people would have to remember long cryptic numbers in order to use it.
I don't need a signature.
It's a fee charged for collecting a fee.... Absolutely perfect. Why didn't anybody think of it before?
-- If it ain't broke - overclock it more.
A lot of companys are doing this nowadays, at&t wireless is now chargeing a 1.50 "regulatory programs fee" to help cover the cost of complying with a lot of new FCC rulings/regulations (one of the largest of these being Line number Portability (LNP)) The nice thing about making it a seperate charge like that is its easy to see on a bill so its easy to pass off PR wise, "Oh its the fcc's fault" And, at least in the case of attws, it has been promised that when the costs have been recouped the fee will be removed, it might seem a bit underhanded, but at least in the wireless industry competition has it to the point that profit margins are so slim, huge projects like that hurt. I wonder if any other companys are doing this?
Jesus saves, everyone else takes full damage from the fireball.
Time for encrypted P2P VoIP.
Somehow, I don't think this is a job for Freenet....
Big Brother Bush is doubleplus ungood.
make any less sense? god forbid we talk about the friggin subject before getting detailed about it
I know it is an unpopular view to maintain, but VonAge IS a phone company, they market themselves as a phone company, they provide the same services as a phone company, so they should pay the same fees and treated like other phone companies.
Just because they are use a different pipe into the home than a traditional telco should not exclude them from complying with the same rules and regulations a telco has to abide by.
If you don't like the rules VonAge has to live with, then attack the regulations themselves that apply to all phone companies.
VonAge is decidedly different than "voice" features in IM programs, or even outbound only low priced LD services. VonAge provides full featured, two way phone service. You get a phone number, people can call you if they are not on the Internet, and you can call people not on the Internet.
They've gotten a free ride long enough.
Other services are quite different. IM programs communicate between computers, or in some cases the computer user contacts a phone # somewhere. Other servicse provide out-bound only network to phone features. And so on. Each of these provides _some_ functionality of phone service, but not the full package. Thus, they should not get hit with telco regs or fees.
It could be argued that out-bound network to phone long distance services could be considered a long distance carrier and should comply with those regulations -- but that would all depend on the details of the service provided. A blanket generalized statement would cause more harm than good.
One thing further, if these services are considered telcos, then they should also be given common carrier status. If not, then they should not be considered a common carrier. If they are not a common carrier, then it opens them up to all kinds of legal nightmares, responsibility for content/control, possible liability, and more. You'd think they'd want to be a common carrier. They should not be allowed to claim "common carrier" and be excluded from phone company regulations.
. 62,400 repetitions make one truth -- Brave New World, Aldous Huxley
Could some of you using their service describe your experience? Is there any lag, specillay on international phone calls?
Who needs expensive VoIP when there is http://www.bigredwire.com . Sure, they don't have an unlimited plan, but at 4 cents a minute, you would have to talk for 900 minutes a month to break Vonage's $35 a month for unlimited plan.
They need to charge high taxes to pay for the social programs like welfare, to support Israel, and to confiscate your guns. You understand this I'm sure. It's for your own good. If you disagree with the taxes then you're a kook like Alex Jones or Michael Ruppert who spew so much filth that they should be put in prison for it.
The government is here to help you folks. Time to grow up and realize this.
Vonage is increasing the price, and trying to make people think they aren't.
Answer: Try BigZoo. 2.9 cents per minute in the United States. 2.8 cents per minute to France from the United States. 75 cents per month. That's all. I've used BigZoo for two years with no problems.
No disad-Vonages.
But, there is a question: Why is it cheaper to call France from the U.S. than someone in the United States? Is this to annoy George Bush? The U.S. is a nation with a lot of weird prices.
Actually, it isn't a bad thing that phone companies break out their charges: at least we know that the Feds are grabbing yet another chunk of our monthly bills. And calling it a "regulatory recovery fee" is priceless ... it points the finger squarely to where it belongs, rather than having extra taxation masked by "higher rates."
The higher the technology, the sharper that two-edged sword.
It makes sense that there would be a charge for each phone number, as phone numbers are a limited resource shared with the traditional phone network. It is for pure VoIP applications, where the participants use some mechanism other than the phone system's numbering to find each other, that regulation doesn't make sense.
Vonage doesn't seem to offer the service currently, but it should be possible to avoid this charge if you were willing to not have a phone number, and only take calls directed by your email address (not using email, but using the address as an identifier). For such customers, Vonage wouldn't have to deal with the FSUSF at all. But it makes sense that the telephone-to-VoIP connection should cost something for the telephone side, since that's not generic IP traffic.
I thought the idea was to improve things using technology, not tax the improvements so much that they're not improvements anymore.
Who agrees? I'll enjoy analyzing your responses.
For a hand book on karma whore spotting, check out the comments on his user page here. Moderators seem to have finally spotted his "Top 5 reasons" postings and stopped modding them up (they were pretty lame anyway).
I guess the new style is "say something obvious, ask for opinions". This one is even completely generic. It seems to be working so far.
Go home, ekroll.
I have to start charging a $1.50 check writing fee to offset my costs for paying my bill.
I am getting really sick of these copanies doing scumbag things like this... their fees that THEY are charged are a part of doing business. Just like the bullcrap "destination fees" when you buy a car. Dont pay them, if the dealer is going to let a $20,000.00 deal fall through over some stupid $150.00 fee they will shut up. just like if you get people to bitch about this lame $1.50 fee they will also stop.
Do not look at laser with remaining good eye.
I'm sure i've said it before. Just tax the damn line, not the virtual connection. To be fair, let's include cable, dsl, satalight, and other forms of two way communication systems which can be used for 2-way communications . While that would suck, it would save a hell of alot of bother with VoIP services which are out either out of state, or perhaps out of country. A tax on communication media, that sounds familiar. That's right, it was called the Stamp Act.
It's sad to see it go this way, but I guess it is fair. Last time I was reading my phone bill there was all sorts of charges such as the "Carrier Universal Service Charge" and the oh so classic "Universal Connectivity Fee" and of course the "Charge for Network Access" which for some reason they just can't call "renting our wire." It really does get confusing, at least Vonage will have a single line/single charge and you actually know what it's going towards.
Telcos are notorious for these charges, although most are legitimate the average joe-schmo wouldn't know what the hell his money was going towards.
An interesting story actually sprung up about these taxes, my buddy was getting a new cell phone and we were discussing the plan that he got and I'll never forget what he said. "Yeah well the plan is $34.99 a month of course they have the fuck you dickhead tax, and the rape you up the ass tax." I think that's how most of the general public feels towards these taxes. Perhaps they could use plain English to better explain these additional charges.
Taxes. Hidden, but still basically taxes. All that's really happening here is that Vonage is passing the bill along to consumers.
That's why my landline phone bill averages out to about $70/mo in the Buffalo, NY region, even though the actual service is about $40. This is without making *any* long-distance calls, using Verizon (local incumbent monopoly, FWIW).
If you think that's bad, you should see what the electric looks like here, esp. after the blackout.
C|N>K
I am getting really sick of these copanies doing scumbag things like this... their fees that THEY are charged are a part of doing business. Just like the bullcrap "destination fees" when you buy a car. Dont pay them, if the dealer is going to let a $20,000.00 deal fall through over some stupid $150.00 fee they will shut up. just like if you get people to bitch about this lame $1.50 fee they will also stop.
Their business model obviously didn't anticipate having to pay this regulatory fee. Quite sensible really - until they were asked for it, there was no reason for them to factor it into their costs.
The cost of them doing business has just gone up, just as McDonalds costs would go up if the price of beef were to suddenly double. And, just as McDonalds would have to raise its prices in that scenario, Vonage is now having to raise its prices to take account of these additional costs.
It's hardly like they raised their prices just for the sake of it - they're doing it for a valid reason. Whether the cost is $1.50 (which isn't that much) or $15 is irrelevant, what's relevant is the fact that it's hardly "a scumbag" move to pass on new costs to your customer if they are legitimate.
If you don't like it, either complain to your government (it's the one setting the fees) or take your business elsewhere (to another provider that charges the same fees, but perhaps not in such a transparent manner).
"Accept that some days you are the pigeon, and some days you are the statue." - David Brent, Wernham Hogg
RTFM: the email said they were lowering prices: Our Premium Unlimited Plan, which was $39.99, is now reduced to a monthly rate of $34.99. Our Unlimited Local Plan is reduced from $25.99 to $24.99. Your new lower rates will appear on your next bill automatically. There is nothing required on your part to take advantage of this cost reduction.
luzer. :P
alias ll 'ls -l'
it's $1.75
I work for ATTWS customer care and boy do people get pissed off when they change their rate plan to a current one and we tack on that charge.
This P.I.G. will walk on the water, This P.I.G. will walk on the sea, This P.I.G. will walk whereever he wants.
I don't want more taxes. Period. None. In as many ways as you can think of. Even if it means cutting certain non-essential services. Even if it means that the government must undergo radical change! (perhaps especially in that case)
That all said, if vonage must pay the tax, then it is fair that they pass on the EXACT amount of the tax to the consumer, unless it is a tax on PROFITS. Tax on revenue should be passed on to the consumer, PROVIDED THAT THEY WOULD FEEL COMFORTABLE PASSING THIS ON TO ANOTHER BUSINESS (read: partner). I am in favor of this, but in general oppose all taxes. The government should be able to charge for all non-essential services, and maintain a low enough tax to provide for police and fire at the state/city level and military at the government level.
While we're at it, lets reorganize the military so that a wrench doesn't cost $500 (I may be exaggerating, but military spending budgets are out of control, and should be roped in).
Any questions?
"We don't know what we are doing, but we are doing it very carefully,..." Wherry, R.J. Personnel Psychology (1995)
loosing?
It varies depending on whom you ask whether chocolate is in fact a necessity or not.
Specifically: if you ask someone with two X chromosomes, it's a necessity.
At least they're trying to keep the customers happy.
TO THOSE WHO CONTINUE TO MISSPELL 'LOSE': A POX ON YE, YE FINGERS, YE KEYBOARDS, AND YE MICE! LEARN HOW TO SPELL, YOU UGLY WARTS ON SALAMANDERS' TONGUES!
There is no trap so deadly as the trap you set for yourself
-Raymond Chandler, The Long Goodbye
Why the fsck doesn't anyone on Slashdot know how to spell losing? loser? lose? It appears they don't teach spelling in school in the US.
Here are some examples for those of you who were educated at the same school as the President of the USA.
"If I weren't so fat, my pants would be looser."
"If I weren't a 98 lb weakling, I wouldn't keep losing my pants."
Get it right!
If those of you griping about Vonage raising prices, would pull your heads out of your asses, and actually inform yourselves, you would know that Vonage has actually REDUCED their prices.
Unlimited service dropped by $5, limited residential, by $1.
In addition to that, they are charging the regulatory fee - thus, as an unlimite customer, your price dropped by $3.50. As a limited reisdentail customer, your price went up 50 cents.
Harry
I am a Vonage Customer...
In short the $1.50 tax is added, but the prices of their residential plans have fallen $5 and $1 respectively. So in my case it's a $0.50 hike to keep the government off their back. If I used the full unlimited service my bill would go down.
Also, as a quick review... I love the service, it's saving me $20 each month over conventional phone service. Calls are clear, and I keep in touch with my family much more these days. The only downsides... There are very few downsides including no phone when the power goes out or Comcast has a service outage in Nashville. You have to pay a little attention to bandwidth issues, meaning don't use a P2P app while on the phone or it gets a little shaky. This is insignificant compared to free voice mail, a naturally unlisted number, and portability to anywhere you plug the Cisco box in... I could go on for days... But to clarify I attached the e-mail from today.
Note the full text of the e-mail:
I am pleased to announce changes in our two Residential rate plans, which take effect September 20, 2003.
Our Premium Unlimited Plan, which was $39.99, is now reduced to a monthly rate of $34.99. Our Unlimited Local Plan is reduced from $25.99 to $24.99. Your new lower rates will appear on your next bill automatically. There is nothing required on your part to take advantage of this cost reduction.
The new lower rates will take effect when your next billing cycle begins after September 20th, and will remain at those lower rates in subsequent billing periods. We urge you to consider upgrading any Local Unlimited lines to our popular Premium Unlimited Residential Plan with the new $5.00 discount. At $34.99 it has never been a better value.
In your next billing cycle, Vonage will begin to charge a Regulatory Recovery Fee of $1.50 per phone number. This is a fee that Vonage charges its customers to recover required costs of Federal and State Universal Service Funds as well as other related fees and surcharges. State and Federal agencies collect these fees from communications providers to fund public projects such as rural and library communications programs. Your total Regulatory Recovery Fee will reflect a $1.50 surcharge for every phone number in your account including primary voice lines, second lines, fax lines, Toll Free PlusSM numbers and Virtual Phone NumbersSM.
Discounts for additional lines will still be $5.00 per month. This means that when you add more Premium Unlimited lines to your Vonage account, the rate for these lines will be just $29.99 per month. Discounts for added Unlimited Local lines will be just $19.99 per month.
Our one goal at Vonage is nothing less than your total satisfaction. Over the last several months we've made large strides in developing new calling features for you. We've also dramatically increased our geographic presence throughout the United States. What I find most exciting is that this is just a preview of what's to come.
We are extremely gratified that our customers continue to be our biggest enthusiasts and our best source of new ideas as we continue to innovate and redefine global communications.
On behalf of all of us here at Vonage, thank you for your business.
Sincerely,
Jeffrey Citron
CEO
I got their email today subject "Vonage Lowers Residential Rates Again". The price goes down for the top two packages, but guess what.. I'm not in the unlimited minutes plan so my price goes up. I have a feeling more customers are in my group so this is their way of making it sound like they are helping customers. Fees. Dejavu all over again. When can we drop this telephone/fee system so I can just call someones IP address without a centralized service? The infrastructure is there. It's noones business what I run on top of it.
Lets say you are driving down the road and you come up to a toll booth. The sign says: $0.25 toll charge for cars. So you hand the toll collector a quarter. Upon doing so the collector says, "I need another $0.10." and you reply "But the sign says the toll is only $0.25.", and she replies "Yes the Toll is only $0.25, but the toll booth agency wants more money. So we'll be taking an extra $0.10". Shocked you say "But you can't do that. The legislators decide how much the toll will be." The collector grins "That they do...but the toll agency decided it wants more." and grinning wider "I'm not opening the gate until you pay."
Only congress (legislative branch) can legally create and levy a tax. No other part of government can. The FCC just decided to decree the collection of this bullshit. MaBell won't argue. Refuse to pay and your lines get cut off.
Has no one had any success fighting this in court yet???
Do you think the niggers really see this money? HA! If all the welfare money actually went to all the welfare niggers the streets would be packed with Cadillacs and you'd be tripping over watermelon rinds on the sidewalk!
Want to see a magic trick? Hand a bureucrat a dollar. Have him put it in his pocket for only a second and he'll pull his hand back out holding only a penny. AMAZING!
I'd love to try a service like Vonage, but why bother when I already have to pay for a landline just to get DSL?
Uhhh, bunches of white folk claim welfare too. Not sure if any car lots accept food stamps, there might be some. I just hope slashdot logs IP's of anonymous racist cowards like this person.
... would slashdot turn over the ip address?
What happens if the Gov't thinks this jerk might commit a crime against
I think this person has some of my copyrighted material, tell me who they are.
AMEN!!! I LOVE the vonage service!!! I cut my phone bill by more than HALF when I switched over to Vonage! 500 minutes free long distance, HUGE regional area which just happens to cover the people that I talk to the most! I LOVE IT!!!! And the Virtual Phone number service is REALLY REALLY slick! I now have a local phone number for most of my family! As said, the only down side is that when the power goes out or you lose your broadband connection, down goes the phone. That's why I have a cell phone. :)
>ther services are quite different. IM programs communicate between computers,
So will they refund this fee if all the phone calls I make are vonage to vonage, thus eliminating any POTS infrastructure? Or pro-rate a discount?
This is more complex than regulatory fees can address. In fact, ask yourself what is being regulated here? Vonage uses (mostly) the public internet, so they're not a real phone company as much as a quasi-phone company.
For instance, will we pay if we use our IM to send an SMS? Or if I dial-up to use a SIP phone? The intermingling of technology moves faster than regulation law and the congressional credo to "keep hands (taxes) off the internet as possible" is a socially and economically positive policy until things settle down (if they ever will).
The real problem here is that the feds have been getting lobbied by the other phone companies in a way to hurt Vonage. Its this kind of in-fighting we don't need, either compete or get out of the way. Nothing is stopping AT&T or Verizon from going VoIP.
Just as a side note, 25% of my cell phone bill is taxes. That is simply wrong so many ways. This mentality to tax anything remotely new because it challenges the older established businesses is simply wrong.
Yes, lost tax revenue must come from somewhere, but the dirty games that big business plays only hurts small companies and new technologies.
My Verizon Tax Bill before Vonage:
911 funding fee 0.50
Dual party relay 0.11
Interstate access charge 6.50
Federal excise tax 0.85
State telcom sales tax 1.6
Federal Universl Service Fee 0.60
Svc Provider Number Portablility Fee 0.36
Universal Connectivity Charge 2.66
Bill Statement Fee 1.50
Federal Tax 0.80
State and local tax 1.61
Regulatory assessment fee 0.99
TOTAL TAX 18.11
So I figured a guess at the total take from Verizon lines at 18.11 my tax * 12 months * 135,000,000 customers = 29,338,200,000 Rounding it off to the even Billion for 30 Billion dollars a year in Tax.
These are real expenses!
For instance, you can bet that the government-mandated safety training of employees assigned to the corporate yaaht DOES appear in the "regulatory fees" category.
All telco companies do this. Why should Vonage be different?
...if whoever wrote this up told us (us as in the rest of the world) what the heck Vonager is, and why the charge money?
If Google really cared they would fix Android Chrome to reflow text, instead of discriminating
I, for one, completely agree with you.
I can understand non-native English speakers confusing "loose" and "lose," but for all others, this confusion is so common as to be an effective indicator of semiliteracy rather than a lack of keyboard dexterity. Anyone who doubts how widespread this confusion is can use Google to search the web or the various newsgroups for "loosing my mind" with the quotation marks in the search string. There is no excuse for this widespread confusion, especially since http://www.m-w.com provides a free dictionary for everyone on the web. (I'm sure there are other available web dictionaries, as well.)
Contrast the righteous indignation of those who were offended by your remarks with the contemptuous derision, in this same forum, of SCO's omission of a bracket in the presentation of allegedly copied code in Linux. Is it any wonder that those outside the Slashdot community look upon us as a bunch of immature hackers? Does anyone think Darl McBride would have been taken as seriously by the technical and financial press or by investors if there had been spelling errors in his "letter to the Linux community?"
If we want to be taken seriously by others, we have to LOOK and ACT to them like we DESERVE to be taken seriously.
Hey people, get real here. If you can access the 911 system through Vonage's service, there has to be some tax applied to pay for it.
Of course it probably seem nice to have those who use POTS footing your bill. I bet that most of the posts criticizing this tax are from people who regularly complain that they are paying taxes that others don't have to.
Death and Taxes are the only certainties you'll ever know. Get used to it.
Read, L
1 - Vonage already pays the phone companies.. hwo do you think their system integrates with the phone grid?
2 - Vonage is NOT your typical last-mile phone company.. and despite what regulation may say, you are already paying either a DSL or Cable provider for the last mile.. and using vonage as a digital service on top of it.
Vonage does not have the benefit of owning the last mile, as your local carriers do... it's not vonages fault if hte local carriers can't make a profit even with all the resources tehy have.. we all know they are too slow to change.
This article is quite deceptive in talking about a $1.50 increase while ignoring the $5 rate reduction Vonage announced AT THE SAME TIME. The reality is that the price has gone DOWN by $3.50/month.
This is socialism imposed by the FCC.
/. with my knee jerking like this.
Oh no, socialism! EEEEeeeviil!!! Destroy the dirty commie socialists!
Stop using such loaded language, it's hard to post on
Thats why its a "FEE" and not a "TAX"
In my state (NY) it is even illegal to sign items as, say, "$1.08 including tax."
Are candy vending machines and soda vending machines illegal to operate in the State of New York? I haven't seen one in Indiana or Ohio that takes the 1c coins that would be required to pay the tax on a round-number-of-cents price.
Will I retire or break 10K?
It only regulates how much water per flush can be dispensed. The tank can be as big as you want.
The common designs for gravity-flush toilets empty the whole tank into the bowl. Given these designs, tank size completely determines the amount of water dispensed into the bowl.
Will I retire or break 10K?
fundamentally, taxing food is just *wrong*
Without a tax on food, who pays to enforce food safety regulations?
Will I retire or break 10K?
more like Losing Nemo
voters have given governments (like Orange County, California) the right to dream up fees on unrelated activities (like speeding) to pay for their own mismanagement and bankruptcies (speeding causes bankruptcy?)
Speeding causes auto collisions. Auto collisions cause damage to human bodies. Damage to human bodies causes health care expenses. Health care expenses cause deficits. Deficits cause bankruptcy.
Will I retire or break 10K?
in most states, it's illegal to "absorb" the sales tax into the advertised price
How do soft drink vending machines in those states work? If it says $1.00, I stick in a $1 note, push the button, and out pops a Vanilla Crack. It doesn't say "add six more cents to pay for Indiana sales tax."
Will I retire or break 10K?
When can we drop this telephone/fee system so I can just call someones IP address without a centralized service?
Now.
It's noones business what I run on top of it.
Who is this Noone fellow? Is he an elected official? Or is it like Ulysses's pseudonym "Nemo"? (in that case...)
Will I retire or break 10K?
Only congress (legislative branch) can legally create and levy a tax. No other part of government can.
Can't the U.S. Congress delegate some of its legislative authority to an executive agency? "The Commission has the right to create and levy user fees, within these limits..."
Will I retire or break 10K?
if whoever wrote this up told us (us as in the rest of the world) what the heck Vonager is
You mean "Vonage".
If you find something you've seen on Slashdot unfamiliar, the editors may have already run an article about it. Try the little search box at the bottom of this page. No wait, I've tried it for you.
Will I retire or break 10K?
Okay. But what about BigZoo? Isn't that cheaper?
I have VoIP service (IConnecthere) specifically because there are no extra state or federal taxes tacked on. The moment there is, I will find another provider that doesn't. I already pay state & federal taxes & franchise fees on my cable broadband connection. Double taxed? Why didnt the goverment think of THAT one before? In addition, I KNOW what goes on in the phone companies, I worked at one time for NYNEX. Triple time for Sundays, 4 hrs paid time just to go pick up your paycheck on Thursdays, ect, ect. I work to hard for my money to blow it on conventional phone service. No wonder phone service is so exspensive ! Not me, mi amigos !
Personally, I think that every communications provider should have a clearly marked line item labeled "GORE TAX". Let the politician who dreamed it up take public "credit" for it.
/. If the government wants us to respect the law, it should set a better example.
Long story short -- Taxation is the antichrist. Americans were all Christians and now their problems are due to their atheism.
I doubt the numbers above and the percentages bandied about below.
>>>>>
(from the website)
restoring our biblical and constitutional foundations
Isn't It the Job of Government?
David Alan Black
"Isn't it the job of government to help all those people?" This was the question asked by a BBC reporter to the governor of Oregon. The BBC ran a special feature this morning on poverty in Oregon, where the unemployment rate is currently the highest in the nation at eight percent. Tax-strapped as are all the state chief executives, the governor replied that it was the fault of the federal government for not alleviating Oregon's plight.
Later in the report a parent in the hip Portland suburb of Beaverton was interviewed. It was back-to-school day, and the big story was the fact that parents in Beaverton had actually voted to raise their taxes to provide "much needed" services to their children. The parent in question said that had he not supported the tax increase, the school would have lost its physical education funding--apparently an intolerable prospect for him.
This is a perfect illustration of the two views of America prevalent in our society today. On the one hand are those who hold to traditional, republican values of self-responsibility and freedom; on the other side are those who are "dependent on DC," who are fighting for some grand, utopian vision of a collectivist future without any absolutes--moral or otherwise. This clash over cultural ideals has been around for a long time, and none of us is exempt from involvement in it.
A recent edition of Freedom Watch noted that not a single one of the following taxes existed 100 years ago, when our nation had the largest middle class in the world and no national debt:
Accounts Receivable Tax
Building Permit Tax
Capital Gains Tax
Cigarette Tax
Corporate Income Tax
Court Fines
Dog License Tax
Federal Income Tax
Federal Unemployment Tax
Fishing License Tax
Food License Tax
Fuel Permit Tax
Gasoline Tax
Hunting License Tax
Inheritance Tax Interest Expense
Inventory Tax
IRS Penalties
Liquor Tax
Local Income Tax
Luxury Taxes
Marriage License Tax
Medicare Tax
Property Tax
Real Estate Tax
Septic Permit Tax
Service Charge Taxes
Social Security Tax
Road Usage Taxes
Sales Taxes
Recreational Vehicle Tax
Road Toll Booth Taxes
School Tax
State Income Tax
State Unemployment Tax
Telephone Federal Excise Tax
Telephone Federal Universal Service Fee Tax
Telephone Federal, State, and Local Surcharge Taxes
Telephone Minimum Usage Surcharge Tax
Telephone Recurring and Non-Recurring Charges Tax
Telephone State and Local Tax
Telephone Usage Charge Tax
Toll Bridge Taxes
Toll Tunnel Taxes
Traffic Fines (indirect taxation)
Trailer Registration Tax
Utility Taxes
Vehicle License Registration Tax
Vehicle Sales Tax
Watercraft Registration Tax
Well Permit Tax
Workers Compensation Tax
Clearly, freedom from government regulation is a thing of the past. The opportunity to compete in a free and open society is fast disappearing, and the "progressives" are doing all they can to hasten the complete demise of republicanism in America. They oppose competition, equal access, and freedom of speech for all people. Their idea of "liberty" is special status based on race, social disabilities, and personal and sexual preferences. And they have enormous muscle due to the support they receive from those in positions of power in society, Democrats and Republicans alike. For them, the only truth is the truth of the individual. They see all rules and standards as euphemisms for an Inquisition-like imposition of the will of one group upon the other group.
We now read of welfare grandmothers at the age of twenty-eight. Violence stalks our nation. Radical