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Adobe Releases Updated Creative Suite
jonknee writes "MacMerc just noted that Adobe has dropped the motherload and updated most of its core non-video apps in a bundle called the Creative Suite: Photoshop, Illustrator, GoLive, InDesign and InCopy (a new product).It looks like Adobe PR popped the press releases a little early as not much is up on their site yet. The official debut will be tomorrow at a press event that looks to have a webcast."
Couldn't Adobe have purchased traditional advertisement space?
I heard they were testing it out in Australia earlier this year and were considering putting it in all of their products.
here ;)
I have over 70 freaks, do you?
using namespace slashdot;
troll::post();
They released the MX 2004 versions of all their tools a week or so ago.
http://www.macromedia.com/software/mx2004/
For example Dreamweaver now supports CSS Layout.
What's my Linux alternative to Adobe Illustrator, out of interest?
++ Say to Elrond "Hello.".
Elrond says "No.". Elrond gives you some lunch.
What option would I deselect in my Homepage preferences to not have new product press releases from commercial-ware show up on the front page ?
It's good to see a heavy hitter like Adobe finally opening up their business practices. I'm sure that this RFC on the secure PDF standard and their relaxing of their draconian licensing on Photoshop will really give Xpdf and Gimp a run for their money. We can only hope that the next step is open-sourcing Framemaker so that we can all have a Free (speech) desktop publishing tool like we have a Free Office suite in OpenOffice. Kudos to Adobe!
Banach-Tarski Overdrive
I don't know what a "motherload" is. Is that about two toddlers, three bags of groceries, a purse, keys, coffee mug and cellphone?
It also occurs to me that perhaps we're talking about a mother lode, taken from gold mining and referring to a specific area of rich quartz veins, and now used to indicate "striking it big" or discovering a wealth of materials or information.
...
Here
While I agree with the DMCA issue, please understand that you are comparing apples and oranges. Try doing alpha channels, and hexachrome separations from any MS product. You will find that for production work, Adobe products are the best, and pretty much the only, option.
I would love to see a competitor come along that could challenge Adobe, but for now, we are stuck. But, their products are decent, and get the job done very well, so things could be worse.
Adobe Illustrator on Wine, of course.
The interesting thing is that Abode is having exactly the same problems as Microsoft. That is, of application maturity.
Photoshop as a tool is completely mature. It has been for quite a while now. For many people that use it, there is no reason to upgrade. This is also true of Microsoft Office, and to an extent some of Macromedia's tools such as Dreamweaver.
The sad thing about all of this is that these companies are trying to find ways of forcing people to upgrade. Macromedia is especially guilty to this I think - it is trying myriad ways of squeezing more money out of the purchasers of their software. Well, I for one am not playing their game - I don't like being strong armed into purchases.
In the long run, I think these companies are going to die out, because they can't improve their applications much more but OSS solutions are going to evenutally catch up and become equally mature. Still, they've got a few years yet. I give them a decade.
The sad fact is that most of the folks here have a powerful capacity for outrage that stops *just* short of actually depriving themselves of anything. We all still go to movies and support the MPAA, we all still buy software from corporate bullies, and hell, a whole lot of us still recommend MS product at work rather than battle the status quo.
Anyhow, I've been around here for a while now, and I can tell you: It ain't worth getting worked up over. It'll never change because the bulk of the geeks here are too in love with their lifestyle to mess with it just to make so puny a point as "we should have the rights the Constitution grants us" or "having big companies blatently buy our elected officials is a bad thing".
(sigh) Ignore me, I'm feeling especially defeated today because I'm heading into a three hour "status meeting" in a little while...
Every year during my review, I just pray the words "slashdot.org" aren't mentioned.
Apple's first page points to this article about the new tools.
So we will finally have Photoshop and Illustrator for Linux? I much as I hope this is true I doubt it will ever happen. What is the problem with Adobe? Or is it a problem with the Linux community.
While I'm wishin' and hopin' here, I'd also like to see Macromedia's products in Linux. Mod me a troll if you must but I genuinely do want to see these Linux support for these programs.
Don't be painting *Microsoft* as clean either!
Microsoft abuses it's power in order to attempt to invade new markets.
Microsoft believes strongly in vendor lock; good for them, not for the customer.
Microsoft encourages a monoculture as well as a monopoly, and in doing so weakens and damages all of us.
If you want an alternative to Adobe, even if slightly crappier, there is Macromedia, Quark, and Corel. Microsoft is the *last* company I would willingly invest with my cash and give any more power than they can force out of me.
GPL Deconstructed
No, really, it's just as good as Illustrator!
Obliteracy: Words with explosions
The Microsoft products might be cheaper, but they are also much more limited. I thought "price-effciency" was a measure of function for the price? IANAGD (I am not a graphic designer), but I haven't seen anything that comes close to the Adobe suite of editing products. I also disagree with your comments that someone would need "two years at a community college learning Adobe toolset". Of course, I have a four-year degree, so I might be exempt from your categorization...
One of the areas that Linux has gained a lot of ground is the VFX industry. It's a right pain having to have NT/Mac boxes around just for the texture artists - it'd be a lot easier if we could just run Photoshop on Linux natively.
Adobe don't seem to be interested though.
Please provide me links to a product that provides press-ready output in CMYK, with consistent color management, support for postcript fonts, and that can provide files that are supported by most printers, and I will gladly give up Adobe's tools. In the meantime, as a graphic designer, i'm stuck using them. Believe me, I'd switch to linux and drop the PC as a graphic design platform, but until those issues are resolved, I'm stuck in the adobe/macromedia/quark vortex...
Why do you say "Hate to say it", when you don't mean it?
I don't agree that there's a close link between the "current spread of viruses and worms on the Internet" and "the fact that Adobe tried to jail the developer who publicized security weaknesses of a commercial product". Was the guy who broke Adobe's security just trying to publicize a weakness? I'm not sure about that...
And, Microsoft's tools don't come close to competing with Adobe's products, unless you're making grandma's newsletter or making stupid banner images.
Office XP. Dreamweaver MX. Mac OS X. And now Photoshop CS. I miss the days when version numbers let you know exactly how long it had been since you upgraded. It gets worse when they have to add numbers to the letters, a la "Dreamweaver XP 2004" or "Mac OS X 10.2". You practically have to hire a geek just to know if you still need to upgrade or not.
What's the next version of Windows supposed to be called, again? Is it "Windows XP 2005" or "Windows XP 6.0"?
The price of the new software will rise 13% with the new versions. Upgrade prices for individual copies of Photoshop, Illustrator and InDesign will be $ 169, up from $149 for the previous upgrade. The premium suite will sell for $749 to customers that use Photoshop. The standard suite without Acrobat has a $549 price tag.
The new Photoshop will include features to make it easier to match colors among photos and to store more information about photos, making them simpler to retrieve. Illustrator will include technology to make it easy to create 3D effects.
Well, once again new upgrades equal higher costs... mo money, mo money.
I thought matching colors within photoshop was pretty easy already... I love the idea, however, about storing more information within the photos. My complicated sets sometimes really need documentation. I've be looking for a plug-in that would do something similar for quite a while. Anybody?
Davak
How about Macromedia products, no?
when will the big flash occur?
Remember when most people bought Microsoft Word as a standalone app for $400 or so? And way back in the early-1980s, I think the Lotus 1-2-3 spreadsheet alone went for $595.
Years ago, competition from Corel and others forced Microsoft to bundle Word with their other apps, and sell the whole thing for about what they used to get just for Word.
Graphic apps aren't used by nearly so many people as office apps, so it makes sense the trend of bundling graphic apps would lag. But it seems the time has come that Adobe can no longer make a killing selling their graphic apps as standalone products.
I'm sure that Adobe will still be having a nice business selling this suite, long after OpenOffice.org has finished eating Microsoft's lunch. But this latest development really shows the trend that software takes: high priced single app, followed years later by mid-priced bundled apps, followed by steep discounts as open source competition commodifies the sector.
I'm generally "Interesting," "Insightful," and even "Funny" here. What the hell happens to me at parties?
Now on to the meat of the matter, as has been discussed here numerous times before (albeit with the GIMP). Show me the CMYK and spot color handling (with licensed PANTONE libraries, no less) in these MS applications. Show me the fast super-high resolution image editting that these apps provide. Show me the strict adherance to the PostScript Level 3 file specifications. Show me a job house that will be able to take output from these consumer level applications and do anything worthwhile with them.
waiting...
Thought so...
And that is just for a replacement to Photoshop. Now provide me with software on par with InDesign. After that go find equivilents for Premiere Pro, Audition, After Effects, and Encore DVD.
Some Russian company built a circumvention device for Adobe's (arguably laughable) eBook encryption, yes. They sold it in the US. They got called on it. They were acquited. They stopped making it. If I were to catch someone using my copyrighted works in improper/illegal ways I'm pretty certain that I would pursue the matter to the extent of my abilities. Stealing is stealing. The DMCA, as written, gave Adobe the powers they used. Are the circumvention and reverse engineer portions of the DMCA wrong? Probably. Is that Adobe's fault? no. Your anger should be directed at the lawmakers that passed the DMCA and yourself for not asserting yourself to your representatives and ensuring that they understood that you didn't want it passed.
Care to tell us how many letters & phone calls you made to your senators and representatives against the DMCA?
Have you tried the products listed to accomplish professional quality photo editing? While not an Adobe lover, I find myself hard pressed to find equivalent pieces of software that does what theirs do in convenient bundles. I have tried the tools that you mentioned and more. None of them stack up to Photoshop and illustrator. If you are doing light weight editing the applications you list will do, but the serious stuff at the moment requires Adobe products. Maybe Somday The Gimp will have a enough features to be useful, until then I will be handing Adobe money for an upgrade.
Gator/Claria is Spyware.
Sadly, I still think Photoshop beats the Gimp for high end photo editing. Is there anything available for Linux that uses colour profiles and allows on screen proof previews using those profiles?
Sigs are so 1990s. No way would I be seen dead with one.
Now with Product Activation
http://www.adobe.com/activation/main.html
I tried to watch the presentation on my work supplied Windows XP Pentium 4 laptop thinking it'd best to view a 'Windows Media' presentation on it's own. Talk about a piece of trash. Windows media blows so hard. I have VDSL, I have seen countless Apple Keynotes without loosing even 1 frame .. where as this one would crap out every few seconds, flicker, and eventually crashed. I got about 1 minute of audible info within about 3 minutes of playing until it finally just crashed.
I'm pleased to hear adobe has a new suite of products, but I see them drifting more and more to Microsoft. I think it'll catch up to them in the end to hurt them, like it has everyone else.
I know graphics shops used to be 90% or more Macs, is that still true today? Adobe has really pushed to show that Windows computers are just as fast if not faster then the G4 line of computers.
I for one think that most of the Adobe graphics-editing applications are among the best on the market. As an avid user of PageMaker and Photoshop, with some occassional ImageReady for animation, I think that this a smart move. By combining these core apps in a single package, Adobe has a better chance of appealing to the corporate enviroment. Keep up the good work!
Page Stream
How small a thought it takes to fill a whole life
Free demo available
see Photoshop in Linux thanks to disney
---
I type this every time.
You went to a 4-year college to learn Photoshop. Heck of the program it was then, how's your 2-year course on Microsoft Word moving along?
I know a dozen professional graphic designers, each of whom had a 4-year university degree. Every one would think you're an idiot if they read this. You really have no idea what you're talking about. Someone please mod the parent as a troll. He is definitely not insightful.
And the men who hold high places must be the ones who start
To mold a new reality... closer to the heart
...direct from Adobe, natch. Not sure exactly who it's for, but it looks like a cross between InDesign page layout software and a creative word processor.
Riiiiiiiight. Adobe has a hard enough time keeping the program work correctly across two platforms. Imagine what kind of seizures they would have if you added in all the Linux flavors out there. I prefer my Adobe products without dependency issues.
But when will they actually release an updated SVG Viewer?
The currently released version is just wbout 2 years old. The preview of version 6 is better, but won't get installed anywhere until its actually released officialy and bundled with Acrobat reader.
And corporate muppets won't roll out preview releases.
I have to wonder how commited Adobe is to SVG. Their preview release of ASV6 is good enough to discourage competitors (it would take quite an effort to match it in a ~2 year timeframe), but won't get installed anywhere until release. Are they scared that SVG will eat PDF as well as Flash?
Adobe did a version of Photoshop 3.0 for IRIX in the mid-90's. Even though SGI was the king of VFX back then, and *everyone* doing VFX had SGI's, it never sold.
I think the part that this crowd (read "geeks") might be most interested in, is "Version Cue" - some type of version control for your graphics files.
Probably pales in comparison to most/any source control, but maybe that's not what it should be compared to - compare it, instead, to what other graphics apps have (ie probably nothing).
---
I type this every time.
Similarly, a boycott isn't an option with Adobe. The populace can't just decide that no magazines will be printed, no billboards created, no illustrations of any kind produced on the computer because Adobe had a conflict with a fellow over the DMCA. That isn't a good way to convince companies to treat programmers fairly. It's just about impossible, and the message is pretty fuzzy.
Instead, we attack the DMCA. Lawyers in any organization will always take advantage of the laws available to them. It is our reponsibility to ensure the laws are just instead. That's a hard task, but it is far easier than transforming the entire face of world publishing without a software alternative.
Thank you. While some of their business practives are dubious, that was an acrobat ebook security issue. Not a graphics editing issue. Now, while for web editing and light image editing GIMP is good enough, it cannot compete professionally on the same level as Photoshop. Not even microsoft with publisher comes close to even pagemaker (ugh) not to mention InDesign or Quark. This are industry-standard, mature applications, that, while overkill to produce a small newsletter, are invaluable for real press jobs.
As for some of the pricing issues that are likely to be commented on (oh, is so overpriced, etc). You need to put things into perspective. $800 for photoshop is relatively cheap compared to most advertising agency revenues. Most magazine ads run $2500 to $15,000 (much more for big magazines), excluding production costs (model, design time, concepting, design etc), of which most agencies get 10-15% comission... $800 for photoshop? that's pocket change in the industry, which is for whom the tools are designed for. Let me not even get into packaging, television, book manufacture, etc...
Is gimp 1.3.20. It is a million times better than gimp 1.2. Complete with easier to use GUI, more filters, CMYK support and support for more image formats..
If you wanted to switch to linux but you couldn't because the gimp sucked, try it again. You will be inpressed. Its a development version, so its not included in most distros, but its well worth a look.
talk about excitement? the lights are coming up now.
in order to survive/benefit from the power such as has never been seen, must be denied by the fauxking greed/fear based execrable, it would be advisable to pay attention (to yOUR environment, for example), which is quite affordable, & can lead to insights on howto participate in the planet/population rescue initiative.
as the newclear power plan becomes self-evident, there's bound to be more inf. available here&there about using less/not wasting anything/being less frivolous.
get more oxygen on your brain. seek out others of non-aggressive/positive behaviours/intentions, then you'll see the light?
this...
Now no one can freeload and us legit user should get some price break soon now. Just like Windows XP. No?
Microsoft Office has had a "cross-media solution" since OLE was launched in Office for Windows 3.1. This is the most boring story I have read on slashdot in weeks.
There's a few. Karbon and Sodipodi seem to be the most popular, but are not the only by far.
Alot of people have animosity towards Adobe, myself included over various issues, but there is one thing that Adobe has that nobody else can hold a candle to:
Photoshop.
This one software package is single-handedly keeping me from migrating to Linux. For those who say "But what about Gimp? It's just as good..."
Those people have also never done professional graphics for print, video or even the web. The toolset within Photoshop is unrivaled, it's color acuity precise, and it's workflow caters to multiple mind sets. For every one way to do something there is a handfull of other, equally successful methods to achieve exactly the same result. It is an artist's tool.
Mature? Nope. There are dozens of features that the community has been begging to have integrated for years, and slowly but surely Adobe has listened. I can understand not implementing every little widget and gizmo that has been suggested by crackpot users over the years into their flagship product line, and each new upgrade offers something useful that can either save me time or opens up a new realm of creative flexibility. Photoshop has many years to grow, become better and more refined. Most people just don't see it because a histogram is this wierd spikey deal that screws up an image, filters are normally reserved for creating 'L3nZ FL4r3s', and the layer effects were the perfect time saving device for all those bubbly drop shadowed graphics with glowy mouse-overs your client is begging for.
There is no alternative, and by glancing at the top 10 new features, it seems that Adobe has not forgot that Photoshop is not a toy program. I didn't see any "Improved Applesque Button Creation" feature.
(yet)
The limit on file sizes has gone from 30,000 to 300,000 pixels. Anyone working with hi-res satellite images will be pleased. And you can work in 16-bits. (OK, that's two things). And the integration with GoLive will mean the end of Dreamweaver for me. The way Photoshop, Illustrator & InDesign all work together really is A Good Thing, if that's what you need.
Look it's even easy to click!
http://www.adobe.com/products/creativesuite/
Karma Eats
Sorry, but have you actually tried to use Photoshop 7.0 to process images from a digital SLR like the Canon 10D? I have, and I can tell you I'm eagerly awaiting Photoshop 8.0.
Adobe has no built-in support for RAW image processing, you have to buy their $99 add-in, and even that doesn't support the Canon 10D without gross hacks. With Photoshop 8.0 this should now be included and cleaned up.
Photoshop 7.0 still only has rudimentary support for 16-bit editing. Try going and applying the vast majority of the filters when working with a 16-bit image. Sorry, out of luck, need to drop back to 8-bit.
Want to resize your picture to a specific inch dimension and resolution so you can print out your digital print at your favourite Costco or on your home printer? Sure, it's possible, but it's not exactly obvious how to do it.
Photoshop 7.0 went a long way to helping web designers use Photoshop for web content. Hopefully Photoshop 8.0 will go just as far to make it a valuable tool for digital photographers.
Those who think that Adobe software is overpriced clearly are hobbyists, not professionals. If you bill by the hour, this stuff pays for itself in a couple of days.
For example, one single feature of Photoshop CS would make it worth the full purchase price for me, let alone the upgrade price, let alone the other new features:
Native non-square pixel support!
Since video doesn't have square pixels, it's always been something of a pain to author graphics in Photoshop. Getting this to work right will save me 10 minutes here, 10 minutes there. At $300/hour, I only need to use this feature three times for it to pay for the upgrade!
For those who aren't professionals, the cheap Photoshop Elements is a great alternative at fraction of the price.
My video compression blog
It's called Longhorn -- just so you don't have to deal with numbers at all. :-)
...and that's the way the cookie crumbles.
Great article at http://news.com.com/2100-1012_3-5083087.html dealing with the issue a little more in depth than the listed ones.
InCopy 2.0 ame oout in June 2002.
even if you don't do anything but regurgitate press releases, look at some of the older ones as well.
They could open a whole new market for themselves by doing Linux ports.
According to Think Secret pro users are not happy with the small upgrades the new versions of the Adobe apps have got.
Note that Think Secret is a rumor site but it has probably the best reputation of any rumor site.
I have yet to be able to open a complex postscipt file in either of these, and edit them like I do in Illustrator 8, on a PII.
"Do not support the companies that abuse DMCA and make security research illegal. There's a close relation between the current spread of viruses and worms on the Internet, and the fact that Adobe tried to jail the developer who publicized security weaknesses of a commercial product.
Hate to say it, but for the Windows platform Microsoft products are a much better price-efficiency alternative than Adobe. Unless you've spent two years at a community college learning Adobe toolset, Microsoft's PhotoDraw and Image Editor are easier to pick up and cheaper. Image Editor is distributed free with many Windows boxes, while PhotoDraw is part of the Office."
Wait a second; did I just read you correctly? And if so, are you high? You take this philosophical and moralistic position about not doing business with any company [Adobe in particular] that uses the DMCA in such a way, and then on the other hand, you recommend using (ie "buying") Microsoft products? The very Microsoft that has been convicted as a monopolist for illegally bundling products into -- get this -- the operating system to drive out competitors? Wow, someone should nominate you for the Florida Supreme Court when the next opening comes up!
"Right now, somewhere in this world, Scott Baio is plowing a woman he doesn't love," - Peter Griffin, *Family Guy*
Paintshop pro definitely has alpha channels and masking, and may have cmyk separation.
If you're a pro designer, you might need to use Adobe products. If you're not, consider a different brand. And bounce an email off Adobe and tell them you intentionally bought a different brand because of them abusing a law to harass a foreigner that was NOT actually breaking the law.
I wish i wish upon a star for this program! (and if your really generous another 512 module PLEASE!)
Tragek
Nice troll. I'll bite.
Do you actually know anything about graphic design? If you did, I'd venture that you would understand that what you're suggesting is implausible and downright foolish. What you're suggesting is akin to me walking up to a mechanic and saying, "You don't really need those wrenches. Here's a hammer. Use that instead."
So just shut up.
Macromedia is for the internet. Adobe is for print. Print isn't the internet.
Arrogant slashbots at work. At least I have a life!
Some Russian company built a circumvention device for Adobe's (arguably laughable) eBook encryption, yes. They sold it in the US. They got called on it. They were acquited. They stopped making it. If I were to catch someone using my copyrighted works in improper/illegal ways I'm pretty certain that I would pursue the matter to the extent of my abilities. Stealing is stealing. The DMCA, as written, gave Adobe the powers they used. Are the circumvention and reverse engineer portions of the DMCA wrong? Probably. Is that Adobe's fault? no. Your anger should be directed at the lawmakers that passed the DMCA and yourself for not asserting yourself to your representatives and ensuring that they understood that you didn't want it passed.
Actually by putting direct pressure on Adobe (by protesting outside of their offices) we were able to get them to back down from aiding the federal government in prosecuting the case. I did not see any reason to boycott Adobe products because of this.
Care to tell us how many letters & phone calls you made to your senators and representatives against the DMCA?
A few and more importantly I recently attended a townhall meeting with my representative in the house to let her know we wanted DMCA reform.
Stuart Eichert
Wait for keygen and crack on usenet.
You'll save big on the ugprade costs, tool
With OS X versions, how hard could it be?
You'd also think the intelligent thing to do would be to make as much of the code base as platform neutral as possible so you're not writing two versions for two platforms anyway.
What bundling? I run three Windows boxes and have yet to see where I was explicitly forbidden from using a third-party mail client, Mozilla browser, instant messaging tool and office suite. In fact, all of my Windows boxes currently run OpenOffice+Mozilla+Eclipse+etc. I have not paid anything to MSFT except that OEM Windows license. Bundling is for the same stupid people who go to the car dealer to buy the advertised car for $20K and then return home with a $35K car loaded with stuff that car dealer talked them into.
And how many people did Microsoft jail on DMCA premises, by the way?
He meant that the article itself was, in effect, an Adobe ad.
Everyone here seems to be missing the point of this release. This is Adobe's attempt to kill off Quark. With InDesign, Adobe has arguably a better product than Quark, but most design houses have been slow to even give it a look. By selling the products design houses already use (Photoshop, Illustrator) as a package, and as a reasonably priced package ($1200 whereas Quark alone is $1000), they're going to put InDesign on the desktop of every graphic designer. Most will at least take a look, and many will probaby switch over. The production flow management tools are also a bonus.
You can run Photoshop easy in WINE... It works great too! Seems to run just as fast in most areas, I was very impressed!
(It should also be noted that I tried it with Crossover Office, haven't used it with the regular version of WINE)
"spent two years at a community college". My bachelor's degree from a Big 10 school
Bachelor's from a Big 10 school = two years at a community college
The only thing you need to get into a Big 10 school is a pulse. Remember it was Ohio State's football team that cut a guy (starting defensive back) for studying.
If you deselect those options in your Homepage wouldn't everybody else logging-in as Anonymous Coward be unable to see those stories?
That's "motherlode", not "motherload".
http://m-w.com
Main Entry: mother lode
Function: noun
Date: 1874
1 : the principal vein or lode of a region
2 : a principal source or supply
The idea here is that you just found a lot of ore in one spot. It's the mother of lodes, not the load of your mother.
i see this a lot. OS X is not linux. It is OS X. completely different. OS X and Linux are both UNIX based but that is where the similarity ends.
that is like saying "photoshop runs on windows, windows runs on x86 and linux does too, so shouldn't photoshop run on linux?"
Updating all your design apps at once is a huge project. It looks like Adobe might be taking advantage of developers overseas.
Hopefully Adobe's software doesn't become a huge bug-filled mess like Macromedia's (especially Macromedia god awful Mac ports).
"Things are more moderner than before- bigger, and yet smaller- it's computers-- San Dimas High School football RULES!"
I've heard many claims that GIMP is trying to be just as good as photshop, but not there yet. I've heard claims that there are one or two things GIMP does better, while overall it is worse. I've heard that it is a good start, but still not there yet. I've heard that "EVERYONE", or "a friend of a friend" claims it is better. I've never actually heard someone claim it is better.
If you are an artist, you should check it out, it might do one or two things that you need. It might be something to put on your todo list for one year from now to see if it is better. Because it is free (beer) you can check it out anytime. Don't do it when you have a big deadline, but most artists are having a hard time finding work now, if you have downtime with no leads check it out.
"At $300/hour"
In your dreams.
Nobody bills at that rate. Nobody.
Maybe in '99, but in '03, maybe half if your name is Bill Fucking Adobe. But 25% of that rate for everybody else.
Graphics flunkies are literally a dime-a-dozen.
What strange language is this? You can hit the motherlode or find the motherlode. But drop the motherload?
Fair point, actually, in the short term. But from the economic perspective, we really charge on the project - if you can get work done in half as long, you get to charge twice as much per hour.
Of course, as others get access to the same tools, overall productivity will improve, so that instead of making more money, I'm really keeping even. But the price of keeping up is cheap relative to the cost of the software. You don't find many folks doing professional retouching with Photoshop 4, certainly.
My video compression blog
Right on. There's no reason to approach vector and raster art through different programs. Jumping is innefficient and kludgy and leads to a "when my only tool is a hammer, everything looks like a nail" approach instead of using both tools for what they do best.
(Adobe seems to realize that things need to be further integrated. That's why they have the stupid 'CS' tacked on to the end of program names.)
The only reason I see that Adobe sells the two seperately is that they'd lose revenue combining them.
Oh, that's easy:
:-)
cat > important_graphic.eps
%!
0.5 0.2 0.7 0 setcmykcolor
100 100 moveto
200 100 lineto 200 200 lineto 100 200 lineto closepath fill
showpage
^D
What could be easier than that?
On stereophonic equipment, the monaural sound obtained through multiple channels will enhance your listening pleasure.
it's color acuity precise
On a Mac with properly set up and calibrated ColorSync yeah, but I have yet to meet a graphic designer who's had any real luck with color management on Win (if they dont' know about ColorSync, I show them mine...gets them every time.)
Facts do not cease to exist because they are ignored. - Aldous Huxley
which originially referred to a large find of gold.
;-)
MotherLOAD... well that's what I give back after a good strong cup of Peet's. Very different
I have yet to be able to open a complex postscipt file in either of these, and edit them like I do in Illustrator 8, on a PII.
Yeah, I wouldn't say either is as good as Illustrator yet for all tasks. But I would say there are many tasks for many people that can be done with either of them. For most people they both have more than enough features.
a good rundown of the impact of Photoshop CS on those using it to tweak digital camera photos is at DPReviews hopcsreview.asp
http://www.dpreview.com/news/0309/03092903photo
a generally useful site for digital photography news
I'm pretty sure I once installed it on Solaris too. Would have been version 3 at the latest. Of course, I could be wrong...
One can write code that will work correctly and cleanly in both, and retain all the look and feel of both environments. There's even three different toolkits under Linux that also work under MacOS X. In fact, LGP is wondering what to do with our Ballistics port once we get PPC Linux support working- it's just a VERY small hop over to MacOS X from there for the codebase.
Just because they're UNIX based but "different" is NOT an excuse for needing or even doing two different codebases.
I am not merely a "consumer" or a "taxpayer". I am a Citizen of the State of Texas
Aren't they evil, for some reason? I know that I am boycotting them, but I forgot why. It was something outrageous, that I am sure.
Anyone care to remind me what was the issue?
Electronic books and their decription? Am I close??
Sigged!
I know people love the GIMP, but man, is that UI confusing to a new user. It can do everything, but is a lot harder to use than Elements for Elements' sweet spot of consumer photo retouching and manipulation.
That said, there is a ton of stuff that GIMP can't do that isn't possible in Elements. It really depends on the need.
My video compression blog
*What bundling? I run three Windows boxes and have yet to see where I was explicitly forbidden from using a third-party mail client, Mozilla browser, instant messaging tool and office suite.
And how many people did Microsoft jail on DMCA premises, by the way?*
The better question is, *why are you posting as an anonymous coward on a subject relating to jailing people on DMCA issues?* Are you afraid Microsoft might make you a test case? And how can you deny the bundling issue after years of the antitrust case? Do you not remember how many times Microsoft has updated Windows to cripple competing software? I seem to remember several times where Netscape was cripped versus performance gains by IE, and it wasn't because of shoddy Netscape coding. What about people fined and jailed for modding their Xboxes because of DMCA prohibitions on reverse-engineering?
And please do not equate a grandmother running internet access on a 56k dial-up as one of your "stupid people" examples when it comes to bundling. For the longest, Microsoft prohibited OEM manufacturers from bundling competing web browsers and plenty of older folks who didn't know better used Internet Explorer instead of checking out the competitors because it came standard on the PC they purchased. Do you expect your own grandmother (if she is still alive) to build her own PC and install all the programs independently? For gosh sakes, if it wasn't for the Antitrust Case, Windows XP wouldn't run Quicktime or AIM... Are you oblivious to this or are you typing from a cubicle located in Redmond, Washington?
"Right now, somewhere in this world, Scott Baio is plowing a woman he doesn't love," - Peter Griffin, *Family Guy*
One nice perk of being a Mac user is that the Mac version of Photoshop CS still has no activation. That will not last forever though, as in that same link they say that it's being tested on Windows to "strike the right balance with users", and then will be rolled out to other platforms and products.
It will be interesting to see if activation which prevents casual piracy will help or hinder products like XP and CS. Sure they have more sales now, but also a smaller user base that will look for other products if it becomes difficult enough to pirate them. It's a way of growing your competitors customer base...
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
"Hate to say it, but for the Windows platform Microsoft products are a much better price-efficiency alternative than Adobe."
Yeah, that'd be true, if they even tried to do the same thing. Have you ever used Photoshop? No, really used Photoshop? I mean professionally?
See, that's what Adobe makes. Professional quality tools. Microsoft makes silly little end-user products that do a couple things you might want.
and to an extent some of Macromedia's tools such as Dreamweaver.
Dreamweaver is compltely immature. The way it renders CSS internally is beyond a joke, and everyone knows that the "HTML" it spews out is a hand coders nightmare.
Whats worse, it has single handedly created a generation of "web designers" who know nothing about how a web page works, making life for people like me more of a living death than life. "I think youre overcomplicating the need to use CSS in this (Movable Type) template; why can we just use the code straight out of Dreamweaver? it looks ok on my Mac!"
Thanks Macromedia.
There is alot of room for improvement with Dreamweaver, and the latest version MX 2004 addresses some of the problems of the previous version, most of them to do with CSS. Credit where its due, Dreamweaver is a fantastic tool, and if they manage to fix the way that CSS controlled pages display internally, then they will have taken a great leap forward indeed. These improvements are worth paying for, as are improvements in performance and stability.
AC rant off.
Fighting the incredibly slow response of Adobe's website, I managed to read the Q&A they provide on activation. It starts by saying that it doesn't change the license agreement in any way. Well, the obviously didn't read the Photoshop 7 license agreement they sent me. It allows me to make a copy on a portable machine, and use that copy - as long as both are not being used at the same time. Activation locks the binary to a single machine, so, since they say they are not changing the license terms, how are they going to honor them? Send me a free copy to register seperately on my laptop?
Nice brush you're tarring people with. Keep in mind that Linux users aren't just hobbiests any more. They're the Fortune 1000. They're the S&P 500. They're Munich. They're other cities in Germany and elsewhere. They're Japan. They're Korea. They're ILM. They're Dreamworks. None of these users are pirates- most of them are the CORE customer group for Adobe in the first place .
I hope you get the point by now. That part's WRONG.
Now, as to the real reason, you've got it dead-on. Adobe's got the same erroneous perception you have about things and they don't see any money in it.
However, they'd better be careful as the customers are working on tools (Film GIMP, etc.) that pretty much render them irrelevent at some point in the near to medium future. Why are they doing this? Because Adobe won't sell to them- and they're just going to do it on their own. And don't discount them- the people in question doing the work are the people at the bleeding edge of computer graphics, whether it be 2D or 3D (After all ILM, Pixar, Dreamworks' sole purpose IS computer graphics...). They'd rather have someone else do the work for them so they can spend their efforts on other tasks- but if they can't find someone willing to do it, they'll do it themselves ANYWAY.
I am not merely a "consumer" or a "taxpayer". I am a Citizen of the State of Texas
whatever it is, it's gotta be less messy than a fatherload.
Given how poor the port was, it isn't surprising how few people bought it.
They dropped Premiere for Mac because only 10 percent of their Premiere users where using a Mac.
Ok, that is what the say on their website and it might be far from the truth but how much market share would Linux need so that they will offer a Linux Photoshop?
I sometimes help develop for the gimp, and the 1.3 series IS very competitive to photoshop! I have a lot of spare time right now for gimp development, and I'd love to add some more features.
So tell me what features you want, and I will see what I can do to implement them. Remember to add them to the wish list. Don't forget to check the wish list from the grandparent.
Dude, what are you gonna run linux on if you drop your PC?
Photoshop 7.0 is running fine here with WINE 20030813 without any Windows installation whatsoever on Gentoo 1.4!
nope. linux is lacking two things before the software can support that.
1) profile support for the display
while an app alone could concievably be calibrated at the mercy of the display device, its better to have this in the X server since that can adjust the hardware (gamma etc)
2) support for calibration hardware
(spyder,ione etc) after that were just a cinepaint plug in away.
we do have scanner calibration thanks to scarse, and thus, theorectially we can calibrate a printer depending on the quality of the scanner, but that still leaves the monitor out.
i thought we had gone over this already...
if you're going to point to a large data package, it would be courteous to provide a bittorrent link to save everyone time and spare the slashdotting victims some bandwidth.
so, who's got a torrent up of adobe creative suite? a product activation crack would be nice too.
So they actually do stuff besides sending people to jail?
wtf are you talking about? My name is Russell Brown? I think not.
I'm worried about this too. This activation stuff is getting on my nerves, in this case, I rather they check everytime your start the app. But then you wouldn't be able to use the app offline.
Grrr.
- sigs are for wimps.
At least, it doesn't suprise me.
Photoshop has to be one of the top five applications that gets stole^H^H^H^H^H installed without authorization. That, and Adobe being an active member of the BSA makes this very easy to see coming.
Hell, look at the back of any Adobe CD case (if you actually have one for that software that is on your drive, you bad bad individual! No ice cream for you!), you will see at least two logos: Clearly Adobe Imaging, and Business Software Alliance member.
Slashdot still doesnâ(TM)t support Unicode after it was added to the HTML standard in 1997.
What's the open-source equivalent of InDesign (or Pagemaker or QuarkXpress, for that matter)? What's Microsoft's high-end page layout software? Publisher? That's laughable.
And assuming something open-source exists, will it be able to export documents into something that a professional print shop can use?
I don't know what the answer to the question about the Linux equivalent is, but I would be surprised if the answer to the export question was something other than, "No, it can't. But home users won't need anything else!"
Prevent Windows piracy. Use Linux instead.
Naysayers, read the dpreview.com review and then post. Clearly, this upgrade has more new stuff than meets the eye. As a Photoshop 7 user and digital photographer, it looks like I will definitely be upgrading.
"I've got to stop masturbating! It makes me too lazy! Stop it, Albert. Stop it." -- Albert Einstein
Go here: http://www.templatezone.com/downloads/download.asp ?download=1&pid=133&CID=.
Use mailinator.com e-mail for getting the download link.
I had been planning on buying Photoshop this year, to take advantage of my educational discount before I'm kicked out into the cold cruel world. But if I have to buy seperate copies for my desktop and tablet, forget it. The ONLY way it makes sense for Adobe to do this is if it's accompanied by a price cut. If you eliminate casual copying, you've effectively doubled or tripled the price of your product to people like me who have multiple computers. Frankly, the GIMP does all I need anyway, and I think Adobe is making a BIG mistake by making Photoshop effectively unaffordable to groups that buy a single copy, and casually pirate it maybe 3 or 4 times. Not only will they no longer get that one sale, but they'll also start making alternatives, such as the GIMP of PSP more standard among the low end.
"The question of whether a computer can think is no more interesting than that of whether a submarine can swim" -EWD
I have an MA in art and graphic design. And any respectable printer (read: everybody but Kinko's) will laugh at you if your bring in a document done in PhotoDraw and Image Editor.
And there's a huge difference between 'press ready PDF Generation' and 'my app can save to a PDF'.
I had to go back and re-read my post. I think it clear enough. I suggest you re-read it, and then re-consider what you wrote in reply. I hope you have enough sense to feel like a fool.
I hate to be that harse, but your reply only makes sense if you didn't bother to read what I said.
Was the guy who broke Adobe's security just trying to publicize a weakness?
Nope. He was trying to make a buck by illegally reverse-engineering somebody else's product.
But this is Slashdot. Don't let the facts get in the way of a good rant.
I had heard that it was so ignorantly written that it rendered it's own fonts and widgets.
A Usenet Troll Triumphs on Slashdot
Alternatively, you might consider that not everybody knows when to start looking for their new software on Kazaa.
Y'see, media professionals and photographers, the main target group for Adobe's lines of software, such as myself, are probably already on Adobe's mailing list.
The Mini Repository - more links
As someone who worked for three years at Kinko's while going to school, I feel I must interject. If you bring a document created in PhotoDraw or Image Editor to Kinko's, they may not laugh in your face. But trust me, as soon as you walk out the door, they are laughing at you.
Just like StarOffice and a hundred other X11 apps.
Courtesy of Digital Photography Review. They go into all the new features that apply to digital photography, and have samples of how they work with real-world photos.
http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/adobephotoshopcs/
I've spoken with many people at software companies, and their to biggest gripes are 1) X is a huge pain in the ass, and 2) Linux users won't pay for software.
No, I'm New Here
No, I'm New Here
Longhorn is just the Codename. You know...like Panther.
I'm not sure what a "crapflooder" is, but I did have Mexican food today.
It would be pretty easy to search the posting history of anyone with a registered user name here on Slashdot and find at least one example of a negative rating. Does that mean the poster is nothing but a troll? No, it can as easily mean that what they thought was interesting/funny/etc... wasn't taken the same way by the community.
You sure are hypocritcal, standing up for Slashdotter's rights while hiding behind an "Anonymous Poster" tag.
If you really want to penis measure here on Slashdot, go ahead. I'll sit back with my five digit user ID and excellent Karma rating and continue to enhance the experience around here by speaking my mind, sharing my opinions, and knowing that the modding of my posts by other intelligent people will give me proper feedback on how my ideas are being received.
Well, for Premiere Pro, I can wholeheartedly reccomend Sonic Foundry's Vegas 4.0. It out-final-cuts Final Cut. It leaves Premiere so far behind it's not even funny. For a few more bucks you can master DVDs with it too.
It is without a doubt the best prosumer editing application available.
It was also recently bought by Sony and will likely be rebranded and emasculated like Apple did with Astarte's DVD mastering suite a couple of years back, so get it quick.
Oh, and a replacment for After Effects? Give me a break. Combustion, Digital Fusion, and Shake are all more powerful and easier to use (although Shake has that pesky buyout problem as well).
While it is new as a consumer product, it isn't new. I believe Adobe provided it as a workflow component for their VARs. It has been around since at least 2.0 and I think 1.5. Someone else can confirm. As I understand it, it is a pretty basic text (or "copy") editor with some nice integration with InDesign. I was sorely disappointed to learn that it was not a Word (or better yet, FrameMaker) replacement. Because knowing is half the battle.
heh... I submitted without previewing... I meant "switch to linux and drop windows", although I would almost venture to say this days pc=windows, (you don't call macs "pc's", although they ARE "personal computers"). Yes it's a technicality, but it makes little or no difference this days. You knew what i meant...
Photoshop is by far, by very far, the best tool for digital image manipulation. There is nothing else even close to it in the market. My personal experience with Photoshop goes back to version 1.0.5 in 1990 and what I discovered is that Photoshop was then and up untl around version 5.5, conservative. The keyboard shortcut combinations (zooming, dragging etc) combined with an incredibly responsive screen update and precise colour is what professionals needed, not a multitude of flashy coloured rollovers. If anything, while versions 6 and 7 have added many useful features, I feel that Adobe's virtual monopoly in this market is perhaps not such a good thing.
There are no other applications that have the features, and only one competitor, Painter, that specialises in natural media simulation, which PS doesn't have, yet which doesn't offer the ease of use of PS.
The case of Illustrator is similar. AI always had a strong competitor in Freehand and Adobe really messed up AI in a couple of later versions in a mad panic trying to catch up and surpass Freehand in the gimmick department. Now, since Freehand has lagged behind for a couple of years, being ignored by macromedia who bet the farm on web products, AI has once again been left to wait it out until the next round. (The differences between version 9.0 and 10.0 are minimal, and 10.0 was even slower on the same hardware).
In summary, while I like Adobes products, I think that it would be incredible if someone like say, Macromedia, to take Painter and Freehand and make decent competitors to Adobe's flagshups again. Macromedia's Dreamweaver is vastly better than Golive in ease of use, and they could heat up the competition with Freehand and a programme like Painter as well.
this activation nightmare is terrible. I used to hold up adobe as an example: see they trust us just type in a serial and get to work... that's why your company shouldn't have activation for your cheaper software.. It's becoming a battle just to use software you buy. I upgrade hardware very often and also usually install a copy on my main workstation, a laptop, and a machine in the living room... I only use one machine/copy at a time.... I bet my frequent upgrades (like changing motherboards cpu's etc..) will break the activation scheme... guess it's back to DPaint on the amiga :)
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