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Weather Radar Goes Miniature
quackking writes "As reported today in the Boston Globe, the NSF has committed at least $17M to build out a new network of miniature (at least in comparison with today's monsters) weather radars. This is to radar what Beowulf clusters are to the mainframe; the scientists at U Mass Amherst project that eventually a weather radar node will be deployable for under $20K! Now to figure out how to get real-time access to this mesh of sensors and create a really cool screensaver..."
here come the beowulf cluster jokes...
Oh man, I kill me.
You can have my one-button mouse when you pry it from my cold, dead fingers.
Maybe now when they call for sun it won't rain instead?
A Beowulf cluster of...
hey, wait a second.
Okay -- how about a Beowulf cluster of the new 64-bit Macs, used to monitor all these sensors in realtime and spit out tons of statistical data based on them (and maybe even generate a nice 3-D map of the landscape to view it on in realtime)?
I'm just sayin' is all.
This lame joke brought to you by the Coalition to Bring Back Beowulf Cluster Jokes.
I, for one, welcome our new miniature weather radar systems.
Can you imagine a beow... aw, crap! He already stole the joke!
"They said I probly shouldn't fly with just one eye," "I am Bender. Please insert girder."
I've always thought that wide-spread weather research could be enhanced in an even lower-cost fashion. If basic sensor arrays (wind speed / direction, humidity, temperature, pressure, and whatever else you can fit in there) powered by solar panels could be deployed for less than $200 per station, you could litter the nation with them spaced out every couple of miles in a grid. Then, have them all phone home (they could repeat their own traffic to reduce reliance on other networks) to a high-powered computer (or via a distributed network, a la SETI@home) to determine weather patterns.
Granted, low cost radars like this are a step towards getting high-resolution data for more areas, but something like what I've described could possibly help answer larger climate-related questions.
That green slime had it coming.
not having loads of Beowulf jokes for once?
I have over 70 freaks, do you?
*dont* welcome our new bewoulf cluster of soviet radars.
What did I miss?
This is to radar what Beowulf clusters are to the mainframe
It's so clear now!
"to build out a new network of miniature (at least in comparison with today's monsters) weather radars"
But can you mod linux onto it? Failing that; In Soviet Russia, the weather radar miniturizes YOU.
You need a FREE iPod Nano
Does this mean the public can get access to the Data? Yeah a Nice screen saver would be Awesome if you had realtime updated weather info, just a glance and see if you need a umbrella or not today, taken a step further, the smart house can now tell you what the hell is going on outside your house for the rest of the day or week. Maybe next step would be to route out stupid people sensor network, then you can plan your trips to avoid not only bad weather but dumb areas as well.
If firefighters fight fire and crime fighters fight crime, what do Freedom fighters fight?
at Umass Amherst ; )
Can we at least install on /. some neural-network scanners that would mod all such obsolete jokes down?
Less is more !
Let's hope that these resources will be widely available for research purposes and weather forecasting. I think this is a big step in understanding various weather systems, a science that is far from understood by anyone.
Not long after this is implemented, I hope to see various news agencies provide not only forecasting based on information provided from the new equipment, but raw data (and maybe not-so-raw data...like images) as well.
This could be a great resource for researchers and the slashdot crowd alike.
I would imagine that the array would work quite well for several reasons.
First of all, the amount of energy you have to use to send a signal decreases with distance squared. So covering an area with with several small radar stations should keep the working signal in the relatively strong range with less power consumption.
Also, there will be a lot of overlap near the edges of the stations' zones, reducing anomolous readings through error checking. (This would have to be implemented. It wouldn't happen on its own.)
And it also opens the door for the possibility of trasmitting signals from one station to the next instead of always waiting for the ping to come back. That could allow for new methods and better results and more accuracy.
Slashdot Syndrome: the sudden, extreme urge to correct someone in order to validate one's self.
Has anyone home-brewed a radar system of any type? Is it possible? What could you do with it?
"If you want to improve, be content to be thought foolish and stupid." - Epictetus
The article's not on getting reports for specific locations, it's about getting more accurate readings for those specific locations. Subtle but important difference.
do you mean you wish to tabliture to modal rate of the weather nodes? For that I would suggest a variable route mark device, possibly one made by Cisco. If on the other hand you want data parity bit overmode protection, you might be better off abandoning the currect setup and restructuring the network until the the packets don't interfere with the reception.
Hey, he's a Sooner (codeword for Okie).
Cut him some slack - they *just* figured out this exists (and plan to stop wearing parachute pants next week).
Err, if you want a really cool screensaver, look out a window -- wind effects, sky, clouds -- all in real-time. Amazing, and not $17m!
'Thats they exact same thing a banana wrench monkey.'
SETI also is deploying 1 hectare array with upto 1000 dishes to be finally deployed by 2005.
Now to figure out how to get real-time access to this mesh of sensors and create a really cool screensaver...
Hmmm, you know, p2p would be the perfect way to distribute said data among all the people who need access to it (if it was a screensaver and so popular and contained realtime feed...)
A whatnow?
Beowulf jokes aside, I think the editors and other posters are missing the point here. The NSF is putting up $17M of a total of $40M, the rest to be made up from private industries (like Raytheon) and public institutions. That's like, I don't know, less than half.
With the private companies coming on, you can bet that there's more than just weather radar applications, though that's not a bad place to start. Still, you've got to wonder why Raytheon would pump $5M into it if there wasn't something in it for them...
If successful, the new technology could also be used to track the low-level winds that could carry a biological, chemical, or radiological attack.
What's the point if the system can't detect the biological/chemical element in question? Even if they knew where the element was released, and they could track the low-level winds, I doubt they could accurately predict how it would disperse. Even with more accurate & detailed data, the weather is a very chaotic and unpredictable system. But at least we'll be able to detect weather patterns missed by current technologies, so it's a good step forward.
The article is not clear, but it sounds like they may be using a new radar technology called Phased Array. It works like doppler, except that instead of the mechanical motor needed to move the dish to scan the area, it scans the area electronically, completing an entire scan in one minute to Doppler's 5 minutes or 8 minutes.
Another benefit of phased radar array is that the scanning speed can be upgraded with better computer equipment with higher bandwidth and number crunching capabilities.
-Cyc
/.'s 10 Millionth
Does UNATCO know about this?
Come and see the violence inherent in the system!
Come and see the violence inherent in the system!
Help! Help! I'm being repressed!
Must be a Michigander.
hey, a question for those with more knowledge than me.
Would it be possible to have the individual nodes of the array be cell phone towers using the existing signals they are constantly transmitting for use in radar imaging. I understand the wavelength is different, but would cell phone length waves still interfere enough to return a proper reading?
just a thought of using a existing setup for data.
"Secrecy is the keystone of all tyranny. Not force, but secrecy
Wont a mass cluster of radars actually heat up the atmostphere and thus change the weather and fry pigeons? Also what if some evil mastermind went around focusing each node on one spot in the sky and at the right moment fired them off to either shoot down planes or make some sort of inter-dimensional time warp that would lead to a shoot-em-up style 3d game plotline?
This comment does not represent the views or opinions of the user.
It would be great to give those eyesores an additional purpose.
$17M divided by $20K = 850 sensors. Area of US is 9,629,091 sq km (according to the CIA). That's 7,578,834 sq mi. That's one sensor per 8,916 sq mi (11,328 sq km). That's just over the area of New Jersey.
Now, the sensors you propose, at $200 each, could get you 85,000 sensors for $17M. That's one sensor per 892 sq mi -- a bit smaller than Ocean County, NJ.
Not quite "every couple of miles", but not too bad. Still, I'd have to think the radar might return more data points anyway, sweeping across the landscape as they do. Plus, it couldn't cost much to add a package of temp/humidity/wind/etc. to each radar, which, while not 85,000 locations, wouldn't be bad either. And I'd have to guess those radars can cover at least a New Jersey each.
"A great democracy must be progressive or it will soon cease to be a great democracy." --Theodore Roosevelt
Yes, but the readouts that produce that data are from thousands of points already existing in the country. I have taken a few metrology classes (they are a hell of a lot harder than you'd think) and our read out data on millibars, barometric pressure, wind speed and direction comes from predetermined points with installed sensors in thousands of different places.
I guess my thought is combining what we already have in the sensors and using the Doppler radar already available throughout the country, this is unnecessary in my opinion.
(To the AC, lol you must be a UT fan with an inferiority complex, and yes you do suck!)
Well, no, and that's the point. Current radar installations are huge and expensive. As a consequence, they are spread out hundreds of miles apart 'cause we can only afford a few. The coverage that they provide is really not all that great because radar only sees by reflecting off objects. Whatever is behind that object is invisible (in this case; object == cloud). With these smaller radars every 20 miles, the number of potential blind spots drops dramatically.
Additionally, these smaller radars can see closer to the ground and provide higher resolution data than their larger counterparts. All good stuff for the met community.
http://www.switch2firefox.com/
All your beowulf clusters ARE belong to us..... God, that joke was so long ago people are forgetting how it went. Do your homework: here
I could be wrong. I'm always wrong...
They've been using the same stock image for Boulder since 1975. That's because the weather never actually changes here. Even when it's "raining" the cloud cover is too thin for radar to actually pick up. The replaced the weather radar with a cardboard mock-up years ago and no one's ever noticed.
I'm trying to teach myself to set people on fire with my mind... Is it hot in here?
I've heard of radars that receive at a different location from that where the signal is transmitted. Such radars are known as a bistatic radars. Some of them even use existing existing radiation sources such as TV stations.
I wonder if it's practical for a network of weather radars. A receive-only radar should be cheaper and have less regulatory hurdles to jump.
Stop worrying about the risks of nuclear power and start worrying about the risks of not using nuclear power.
...a whatnow?
I guess the fact that the newspost speaks about Beowulf clusters, was only put there to make all those beowulf cluster jokes on topic!
Also, past 25 miles or so the big Doppler beam reaches the horizon and zips higher and higher up. More stations would fill in the low-level gaps.
Everytime there is something strange like the phoenix lights, the shuttle crash, and mysterious plane crashes, the weather radar becomes a very interesting resouce. In some cases, it has been reported that the radar is mysteriously not available. It's taken, and then re-released back to people with the right permissions to see it.
New Mexico has flight radar, I don't know what the difference is, but either way, enabling radar in a backyard size package is interesting to say the least.
because I have been enjoined by this Holy Office to abandon the false opinion which maintains that the Sun is the centre
It just occured to me that 802.11 IIRC runs on a similear frequency to weather radar (at least those that are running on 2.4 GHz). Could you build a 802.11(letter) station with an ultra sensitive reciever, and while transmitting, look for echo returns and figgure out distance, and from there extrapulate some data. Obviously you would need some triangelation with other nearby stations to figgure out where things are (the antennas are not directional or moving so you would just get a return "there is something x miles away), but that can be done any a computer elsewhere. I'm not sure if technology is up to recievers that can seperate the data at that low of level, but it would be really cool to have a few basestations that also told me something about the weather.
Well, now we know one more thing to be included in future "Ultimate Geek Cars".
If this goes worldwide it will have a serious impact on stealth technology.
Think about it for a second.
Stealth planes rely on their low radar cross section. With a gigantic weather array broadcasting a signal from all possible angles at least one of those dishes is going to catch that stealth aircraft on its wide side.
Detecting the plane will just be a matter of looking for the anomolies.
Sorry, I don't do homework anymore. Slashdot is strictly for work avoidance....
love is just extroverted narcissism
Spotting dangerous thunderstorms and helping find tornadoes as early as possible. If they help predict if will rain on your picnic, that's a bonus.
Erlang is the perfect language to use to address this problem. It has built-in support for resource discovery and network communications among an arbitrary number of nodes. IPC is handled by giving every node a mailbox to which messages can be delivered from/to so long as you have the nodes PID; It's as simple as "Node ! doSomething."
Also, OTP (Open Telco Platform) is included with the Erlang release and includes goodies like the distributed database Mnesia. Check it out.
might as well get every last byte?
.asps, particularly, if you are associated with the aforementioned walking dead contingent.
you haven't seen anything yet. you call this weather?
keep peacing off the creator, & some of y'all will be detecting smoke&mirrors coming out of your
you can pretend some more if you want to. it won't help.
consult with/trust in yOUR creator. that's the spirit.
This radar array sounds nice but I think there is a lot of hype in the article. A more low tech solution to collecting rainfall data and other weather data is to use a community of volunteers. There is in Colorado such a community. The Community Collaborative Rain and Hail Studyi (and Snow too) provides an unique way to study weather in Colorado.
"Wow, imagine a Beowulf cluster of these!"
The data could be made available to the public through a Web Map Server following the Open GIS Consortium specs OpenGIS.org.
This data could then be incorporated into your own personal Web enabled apps utilizing an open source product like U of MN Mapserver
> Now to figure out how to get real-time access to this mesh of sensors and create a really cool screensaver..."
Hey that's a really cool idea! With a few million dollars to roll out the sensors and some Uber-hacking to gain access to them we could do something like this! Wow...
- For the complete works of Shakespeare: cat
As in UMass Amherst, now if we could only get money for things like professors.
Come on -- you even parody the Beowulf numbdice, and they mod you down?
Yeesh. The mods have the brains of lemmings.
would allow a better study of micro-climants, which would be interesting(IMHO).
The Kruger Dunning explains most post on
I am a retired research meteorologist who has worked with radar data. I am interested in anything that would improve our tools, and hope that the proposers of the small radar system will test their ideas. This type of system could be good for some uses. However, there are certain possible issues to deal with:
- To analyze a large weather system covering a thousand kilometers or more you would need many of these radars; this is a difficult organizing and data handling problem.
- If part of the area were covered by these small radars and part by standard large radars, the data from the different types of radars might not match up well and could give misleading reflectivity patterns.
- For short-range radar use, the slant angle of the radar beam to the cloud would be large, especially when measuring the tops of high thunderstorms; this can cause inaccuracies.
- Small, low cost radars tend to use short emission wavelengths. Short wavelength radar waves are highly attenuated by clouds and rain, so that clouds further away tend to be hidden. Even though the range is short, this could be a problem in heavy storms.
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Oooh... birds?
In Soviet Russia, Weather Miniturizes YOU!
They say Miniture but what does miniture mean, the size of a watch or the size of a car? Nowhere in the article does it state the size of miniture. Arn't Radars currently the size of an 18 wheeler?
I know you're either a troll or someone with naturally unconventional chemistry, but I feel this deserves an honest response anyway. I can think of no better way to honor the creative force than to attempt to understand and appreciate all that we can about the workings of existence.
"You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
I'm a bit confused, or the journalist is. Small weather radars itself is nothing new. They are available for small general aviation aircraft, weigh only a few kg, and cost about as much as a small non-radar-equipped general aviation aircraft. The idea of using a large array of such to get a big picture, however, is very interesting indeed. _ /Bjorn.
how about getting 10'000 people to bring their ... (
;)
umbrellas. stack them on a nice big field and
then tell them to run on a 500 m diameter circle
line towing their umbreallas behind them (open of course) maybe this way one could make a small
tornado or sumething
-distributed physics experiment