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Have You Personally Used an Honest Head Hunter?
Haacked asks: "As a software manager, I've tried using recruiters and head hunters to find qualified employees. My experience is that used car salesman feel like paragons of integrity, in comparison. It seems their interests never lie with the job applicant, nor the company. However, I once read that some recruiters do act with integrity and actually care about the people they are trying to place. The book suggested finding a head hunter who is interested in a long term relationship with you (not for the commitment-phobic) and will serve more as a career counselor, attempting to find a position that meets your goals. Seems to me that establishing a long-term relationship with fewer as opposed to screwing people over in volume would make good business sense to garner repeat business. Have any of you ever worked with any firms you felt represented your interests well?"
Have You Personally Used an Honest Head Hunter?"
Yes, a fellow named Jeffrey Dahmer. Nice guy, if a bit strange. I'd ask him what he did with the rest of the bodies but he always just gave me a sly grin.
I wonder what ever happened to him..
Trolling is a art,
I've been used by one, does that count?
Wait, maybe that was abused...
A guy at the Ettain Group did his best for me, and wasn't upset when I chose a full-time job over the contract he offered me. But not knowing where you are, they may not be available to you.
-jls
Techno-pagan
Unfortunately, most head hunters do not get paid for employee retention or satisfaction, and simply earn dollars for every body they bring through the doors. As such, there's no incentive to ensure that things work out in anyone's best interest.
Ideally, long term employee satisfaction & retention should factor into the payroll equation.
Mom and Dad were the best job finders for me. Of course if you don't want to work near family this might not work for you.
Some headhunters work on retainer -- generally filling higher-level positions. They tend to put their client's interests first, because their compensation is already earned and because they work on a long-term basis. Others work on commission, filling a position for, say, 30% of the first-year salary. Many of these are, I understand, a bit less ethical.
When you speak with a headhunter trying to fill a position, just ask, "Are you on commission for this, or is it a retainer job?" You can learn a lot from that.
Got a call from a guy that's called me every 3-4 months last week.
Me: "I'm still pretty happy in my current job"
Him: "Well, we're looking for C# developers, but we'll interview people with java talent to fill those roles."
Me: "We're looking for Java talent as well, so if I knew good people, I think we'd take them."
Him: "Really?!? What's the hiring manager's name?"
Me: "I'm pretty sure he wouldn't want that information given out."
Him: "Fine... **click**"
I don't expect to hear from him in 3-4 months.
Shortly after introducing himself, asked me to sign a pledge declaring that I would not, under any circumstances, accept a counteroffer from my current employer.
One recruiter, who I had never met or spoken to, submitted my resume to the company I had just left two months previously! Not only that, but he grossly exaggerated my experience and qualifications.
Stop by my site where I write about ERP systems & more
Like Diogenes and his search for an honest man, I personally have never been able to find an honest headhunter! The sleaziest incident was when one of them slipped me $1000 cash in an unmarked white envelope to quit the job I'd just started and go to work for the job he had been trying to set me up with but was taking too long. Ah, those were the good ol' days...
"Freedom means freedom for everybody" -- Dick Cheney
As for recruiters who try to help you out for free, don't forget, you get what you pay for.
Sarcasm and hyperbole are the final refuges for weak minds
They don't care about the employee or the employer.
Even though I was desperate for employment, I decided they weren't worth the trouble.
Not to mention all the OHHHH, that position was just filled after making an inqury about a posting on monster.com (or the like).
I guess I got lucky, the company I'm working for came looking for me....
No more Micro$oft bashing from me. Its like bashing at the special olympics.
Yes, I've dealt with good recruiters, but they are few and far between. Ultimately, like car salesmen (and everyone else for that matter), they normally think about short term or immediate gains and not long term ones. Most won't trust, believe, or value a long term relationship if it means possibly losing a short term win.
Network with others to find these good recruiters, and, more importantly, find good candidates. Use your people's contacts/friends to find the candidates based on people that they've worked with in the past.
I don't understand why people still go to headhunters. Even if this mysterious honest recruitment firm did exist, they'd still be taking a lot of money that could be going to your salary (they have to make a profit somehow), and they'll always be bad at matching you up with a company, because if they knew what they were talking about, they'd have a real job.
Every single job I've ever had was the result of me knowing somebody who either worked for the company, or was a friend of someone in management. Any time I've ever gone on an interview that a headhunter found me, it was a complete fiasco. I'm a java programmer, and most of the time they sent me to companies looking for a javascript guy.
They also simply tended to be crappy jobs, which is why they had to pay a headhunter to find them employees. An appealing job will attract an employee with little effort. A good employee who's been in the business for a while and knows some people will usually be able to find their way to it.
Money I owe, money-iy-ay
If I knew a good headhunter, I wouldn't be at home in my underwear posting to Slashdot, you insensitive clod!
I have worked with a number of headhunters, and I've had very unpleasant results across the board.
It's something of a vicious cycle in that hiring managers tend to hedge their bets by bringing in multiple headhunters, making it less profitable for the headhunters to do high-quality work for any giving manager. It just doesn't make economic sense for them to really screen candidates and find the perfect fit since neither the candidate nor the hiring manager is locked in.
At one point I tried using a headhunter on a retained basis. We paid him up front for his work on a high-level technical hire, and he put a number of candidates in front of us. He did put a lot of time into the search, and did a better job of screening candidates than any of the contingent (pay if you hire) headhunters. Unfortunately, none of the candidates that we saw fit the bill, and we ended up having paid beaucoup bucks for no results.
I do think, however, that this is the way to go. If you can find a quality headhunter that builds long-term relationships with smart, qualified people, then it's probably worth doing a retained search.
I've been a candidate on both types of search, and the retained is far better from a candidate perspective as well. The hiring manager has already committed significant resources, and has delegated meaningful responsibility to the headhunter - so you can believe 25% of what he/she says, not the usual 10%.
FWIW, I've been trying to hire a couple of Linux-savvy folks for the past month or so, and I've avoided bringing in a headhunter. I can screen resumes as well as the next guy, and probably better than most, and I'll be happy to save the 15-20% fee that they would charge me.
warning: epoll_wait is not implemented and will always fail
Obviously there are always people out there willing to outright scam you, but I haven't run into any that I've noticed. Mostly what you get to deal with are people who cheat you out of incompetence, not knowing or caring what you do. The worst interview is when you arrive, and you and the client realize that you had different ideas of what the position requirements were.
...
I have worked with a couple over the years and have one now that I really like. Good, honest headhunters are a lot like reliable babysitters. Extremely hard to find, but they do exist. And, once you find one, you do everything you can to preserve your relationship. (Unless it's a babysitter and your last name is Kennedy :)
"I'd rather be a lightning rod than a seismometer." -Ken Kesey
I have, but it was deep into my career as a developer before I found one.
Most seem to be flesh pimps... put a warm body in a seat... as long as they get their check. That can not only ruin their reputation with companies out there, but can ruin a developer's career and self esteem.
I have to wonder, in retrospect, if part of the problem was me though. I now know exactly how to talk with head hunters, and think I am pretty good at getting a feel for what they're actually about. I have no problem telling them when they're wrong, and when I think they're trying to pimp me out.
I have a good working relationship with two head hunters now, and they know my skillset very well. I haven't had a problem with the flesh pimps (other than the usual cold calls) in some time.
I did, once, have one ask me how long it would take for me to learn a particular language that wasn't on my resume. I asked him how long it would take him to learn Portugese. He got the message.
Saying Android is a family of phones is akin to saying Linux is a family of PCs.
I've worked with a dozen or so head hunters. I've only me one I totally trusted. Good signs for a head-hunter:
1.) Works with you to establish your hourly rate, and the hourly rate he'll bill you at. (Doesn't hide rates.)
2.) No IP agreements.
3.) Reasonable non-competes
4.) How well they treat H1-B people. Do they threaten to deport them if they leave the company?
5.) Have you seen them lie? Do research with other people in the company. Ask pointed questions and see if employee answers match head-hunter answers.
6.) Attitude towards overtime.
7.) No patronizing attitude
8.) Open with what is going on with office politics
9.) Shows you the contract between head-hunter and company you'll go to.
10.) Asks where you want to go with your career
Bottom line, you've got to do your research. Google for people that have worked at the same company and ask them questions.
Thanks to the market being swamped, the head hunters have started to turn against not only the possable employee, but against the company looking for the recruit. I have seen, and been on the recieving end many times of a head hunter saying that I had a job, just to find out they gave it to some one else. Once, I even got a call from the company I was going to be working for, and they asked why *I* turned them down. Don't trust a head hunter, there is a reason they are called that. sin
Merf
Contingency recruiters, who get paid to fill a slot and will mailshot you CV everywhere to get the "we introduced person x to you first, so pay the fee please". And retainer recruiters, who are paid to find a shortlist of people for a fixed fee, even if the employer doesn't end up taking them on. If you're job hunting, the general technique is to write to all the target companies you're looking at directly, tell a few retainer recruiters you're looking, and generally to avoid contingency recruiters like the plague. Recommended book is "Rights of Passage" by John Lucht. If you ignore the promotion of his own Internet site, you'll see how different parts of the recruitment industry work, and the advice in there is very good - for high-ticket price job hunters anyway. IMHO of course...
Yes, I know of at least one honest headhunter. I've known him for years. He found me a good job as a sysadmin at a nice company a few years ago. He worked hard to get me there, but I ended up not taking the job (for reasons to complicated to go into). But even though he had put in a lot of time setting the deal up, he was very understanding when I turned it down.
What's more, he didn't hold a grudge. Six months ago when I was looking for a change of scenary, I applied for a job online. It turned out Vince was the headhunter, now working for a different company himself. He not only remembered me by name, but recommended me highly to the client (which turned out to be the same company he works for), and I ended up getting the job.
A month ago, a friend of mine was looking to get out of a sinking ship himself. I gave him Vince's number, and in three weeks Vince not only found him a job, but found him something that fit him well. In this economy? I was floored.
So yes, they are out there. You just have to look around a little.
I have had both good and bad luck with head hunters.
Some warning signs of a bad one:
1) The headhunter says things like "This is the best developer I have ever talked to." or "You'll want to hire this guy immediately" or "I have ten people perfect for the job you're offering"
2) The resumes that the headhunter gives you are fully of typos and gramatical errors. Not only doesn't the applicant care enough to fill it out, but the headhunter didn't care enough to review it.
3) Headhunter says "Even though he doesn't have the experience you said you wanted, I know you'll love him".
Good signs when talking to a headhunter.
1) FIXED RATES!!!! Most headhunters get a percentage of the salary of the person coming in. There incentive is to get you to hire the most expensive guy, whether he is qualified or not. Fixed rate headhunters just want to keep you happy so that you come back.
2) They do full pre-screening interviews with technical questions before forwarding any resumes.
3) When you reject a candidate, they try to find out why so that they don't make the same mistake twice.
Overall, I think that the right headhunter can be a great help with recruiting, but always understand that there interest is in placing candidates with you and not necessarily that the candidate fits.
Rob
I don't understand why people still go to headhunters. Even if this mysterious honest recruitment firm did exist, they'd still be taking a lot of money that could be going to your salary (they have to make a profit somehow), and they'll always be bad at matching you up with a company, because if they knew what they were talking about, they'd have a real job.
Certainly not my experience. I've had 2 very good experiences with headhunters, and 2 mediocre ones. It is certainly not true that "if they knew what they were talking about, they'd have a real job." I've had managers that couldn't code, and certainly the headhunters couldn't, but they DID know how to communicate. That's what they're there for, and if they know how to do that you're in good hands.
I can tell good UI from bad, but I have a real hard time coming up with good UI on my own. There are plenty of art critics who can't paint. Hell, everyone knows good music when they hear it, but relatively few can play.
For that matter, there are plenty who can play music but not compose - and vice versa...
Try finding a private Recruiter. One that consults on his/her own and is not associated with a larger corporation. These tend to be concerned with filling your positions with qualified candidates and building a good relationship because its their bread and butter not their company's. I have a friend thats a recruiter for the Hospitals but he is privately contracted. He said it works out much better because he's not under pressure to squeeze the client for every penny. A private recruiter can even offer a more indepth and personal evaluation of potential employees where a larger firm has goofy standardized testing. One look at public schools should tell you standardized tests are BS. This is only really good for hiring specific positions, not for high volume staffing in most cases.
His name was Alan. He was a decent guy. Alan and me got to know each other when I needed to fill some spots on a desktop support help desk at 35k a year (this being back in 1995-97 when it was hard, but possible to find such people). He sent over a boatload of fine people - I hired about 6 people off of him.
.com bubble had burst in Silicon Alley and placements were really dry.
Anyway, since he was so good, I gave him my resume and let him shop me around the next time I was looking. He landed me in 3 jobs in a row. Then, I have to admit, I fucked up. I was in the middle of a divorce, and I was being slack. The company fired me because of a performance issue (my fault - I was taking too much time up, showing up late, that kind of thing).
After that, he didn't have any time to spend on me. I suspect (this was mid-2000) that he was having performance issues of his own - the
I haven't been able to get a hold of him in a long time. I suspect he is out of the business, he doesn't work for the old agency he used to. If anyone knows of an Alan Chase in the NYC area, send me an ICQ or mail, though, he was a great guy and i'd love to work with him again. Divorce is over, things are cool again.
HBI's Law: Frequency of calling others Nazis is directly correlated with the likelihood of the accuser being Communist.
On a side note, ditto for contract agencies. Seven years ago I was totally psyched to find a contractor that paid me $28/hour for jack of all trades systems administration and network architecture. Being 19 or 20 at the time I was enthralled with that hourly rate. Many years later, while talking to a company I used to contract for, I found out they were billing me out at $250/hour. Riiight...
PepperHacks - Hacking the Pepper Pad
I once had a head hunter place me in a position at Enron as a DBA of their financial databases, even though my only prior experience was that of MS Access and a little VB. My incompetence was almost exposed a few times especially when one of my macros got out of hand and started calculating losses as profits. I just hope my new position at SCO will last a little longer :)
I respectfully disagree.
My current job was acquired through a head-hunter (a good one) and I wouldn't have gotten it any other way. The employer had an exclusive agreement to bring on a certain number of people and they all had to go through this head-hunter. A sort of package deal.
As it turns out, the costs for a head-hunter can be equivalent to what one might pay an HR department to do similar work... and when you have a small or non-existant HR department, a reputable head-hunter can be a great asset.
That all being said, I found the job because the head-hunter had posted specific positions to a job web-site and I responded to two of them because they were both buzz-word compliant with my resume. Within a week I had the job, with salary negotiated through the head-hunter. I felt that they did a good job of playing advocate for both sides.
Since then, I've had an opportunity to deal with them from the employer side and the people they sent us were always very close to what we were looking for... at least as close as one can get without being "us".
Edu. sig-line: Choose rhymes with lose. Chose rhymes with goes. Loose rhymes with goose.
Comparing? THEN use THAN.
I write code for an HR group at a large company, and I can tell you why. Companies don't want to weed through the 300 resumes they get for one position. Quite honestly, they don't have the time. So they trust (at their own peril) a recruiting firm to handle the legwork for them, and narrow it down to a reasonable number.
For that, they don't mind paying a fee. It does save time and money for the company. Unfortunately, they can get screwed on that deal by a flesh-pimp-headhunter. That will only happen once, though, and most companies (at least this one) won't deal with that agency again.
Saying Android is a family of phones is akin to saying Linux is a family of PCs.
When I was first out of college, I used a headhunter to find my first programming job in Chicago. I can't remember his name or the company, but he was somewhere downtown on Wacker street I think. It took several months to find a job that I was a good fit for, especially since I didn't have a CS degree. He sent me on one or two interviews that weren't really good fits for me and was kind of amazed when I turned a company down because they were "too corporate." But he got the message, and a bit later he found me weveral interviews at once and I ended up with three offers to choose from.
Out here in Silicon Valley I know one good recruiter who used to work for one of my former employers on a contract basis. She found good people for us to interview, which is exactly what she was supposed to do. She also gave me some advice when I was job hunting again a few months ago. The recruiters who work for my current employer seemed good too. In both of these cases they definitely represented the employer, not the potential employees.
On the other hand I've run across some bad ones. Before I found the good one in Chicago, I encountered some agencies that were more like meat markets than technical recruiters. At one of them I showed up for an initial interview and they were also interviewing hairdressers. From the employer side, I've also encountered quite a few recruiters who will give managers lots and lots of resumes for unqualified people, without making any effort to filter them at all. ("Does the word Java appear anywhere on this resume? No? Then why did you send it to me for a Java programming job?")
Summary: There are some excellent recruiters out there, but they're hard to find. Once you find a good one, stick with them.
Being a bit more serious, the situation you describe is fine for low level, commodity labor. Try hiring your friends to be your CFO or Director of R&D and see how long your company survives.
And you really think you'd have better results hiring a CFO or Director of R&D from a headhunter? Surely, you've worked with some competent people in the past that are looking for an opportunity.
Friends aren't just people you hang out with at bars. I know plenty of old clients and cowerkers to fill some pretty high level positions, if I needed to.
Money I owe, money-iy-ay
He was a moron. Idiot. Slacker.
I don't understand why he was even in the tech field in the first place. Sure, he knew how to install software, but I had to show how to browse a Windows network! He was the equivalent of an end user! Ack! He had very little knowledge, couldn't improvise, and only showed up half the time.
When we interviewed (and hired) somebody else for the position he wanted to fill, he was disappointed. Wanting to somewhat save his damaged pride, I said, "Yeah, the person we hired for the job had a Master's Degree."
To which he replied, "If I had a Master's Degree I'd just go in and ask to buy the school."
As if they roll up a million dollar bill with your Master's. As if one could simply buy a public school.
It was the stupidest thing I had ever heard, but I only said, "Yeah, the tech sector is kinda tight right now."
Qualitas edurus commercium, nullus penitus net rimor, nullus deus beneficium
Well, partially, I'd say 'Duh.' These people make money by placing people. That's how they put food on the table... its to be expected that they are more concerned with that than either of the two parties.
In most cases I've seen, the headhunters are conerned for themselves first, the company second (after all, the company is paying them), and the candidates last.
Generally, I've tried avoiding recruiters from agencies. At my previous job, I was hired by a recruiter who was on retainer from the company, and I worked with a recruiter while there when we were hiring more people. They seemed to actually care about the company. They also seemed to care a bit about the candidates, since most of them realized that lying to someone just to get them through the door would result in an unhappy employee who was likely to jump ship, which would make them look bad in the eyes of management.
Personally, if I were at a company and needed to hire, I'd just hire a recruiter, and put them on a bonus schedule... if the employee remains for 6 months, they get a bonus... if the employee is still there after a year, another bonus. That would make the recruiter care about the whole equation, since it is in his/her best interest.
Oh, and the only time i can actually verify that I was flat-out lied to in order to get me through the door? No recruiter was involved... it was the doing of a VP and my manager.
When I was a hiring manager I liked psinapse because, while I got very few resumes from them, every one was a good candidate for the job opening (they sent almost no crud) - Since I've been freelance I've done a job for them as well, they were easy to work with and very supportive. Small company, but nice.
closed minded is as closed minded does
I actually have someone I work with fairly regularly who seems genuinely interested in helping. Of the handful of people I've used for headhunters, this one definitely stands out above the crowd. (er... if anyone is looking for a Data Warehousing job in the midwest, I can put you in contact... :-)
But I'm not sure it matters... you can pretty much get headhunters to do what you want by following a few simple rules:
First, remain independant -- don't agree to use only one Headhunter and, in fact, make it clear that whoever you use has no right to submit you for a job without your permission. You can maintain control this way, which leads us to:
Second, take what you want, leave the rest alone -- make it clear what you're looking for in a job and don't accept anything else (up to the point you can afford it). Headhunters make money by getting you to agree to work, so they'd rather be a bit annoyed with you and spend twice as long finding you a job than losing you as a client completely. As long as a headhunter is willing to call you up, you have the possibility that they'll be the one to find your perfect job, so you don't want to alienate anyone, but that's tough to do since they're on commission (all the ones I've seen).
Thirdly, demand open contracts -- this is the only one that's not completely trivial to negotiate. Many headhunting companies have policies that they will tell you the percentage off the top that they're skimming. Rates vary, of course -- I've seen 10% and 50%... still, if the money's right this may not be important to you. Most companies will agree to tell you, and in some cases, you can get a better deal going with someone's competitor. Lots of the jobs on web search engines are the same job posted through various employment agencies, so you may be able to get more money for the same job from someone else. Having this rate disclosure helps prevent that, and it also gives you a bit of a bargaining chip if you turn out to be really good in the position.
Just using those three rules, I think you can convince yourself that whoever is offering you jobs is at least somewhat likely to find something you'll accept. And for the most part, even if you can't stand your headhunter, that should barely affect your job once you're signed on and getting paid. While I like that my agent calls me up or takes me out for drinks now and again, it's not worth losing much salary over.
You're trying to tell me that you're having TROUBLE FINDING QUALIFIED SOFTWARE ENGINEERS? Surely you jest. Why not just put an ad on Monster.com and look through a few of the thousands of resumes you'll get. If you're too lazy for that, I can forward you twenty or thirty names. Damn, you can't throw a dead cat in Sillicon Valley without hitting an unemployed software engineer with excellent credentials.
While we're at it, I'm having trouble finding a starbucks in the San Francisco Bay Area. Can Slashdot help? Please send me the addresses of the one closest to me. I'd also like a free Frappucino.
At the end of our conversation in which I mentionned I was a programmer and was looking for work, he said, well consider this your interview: you passed.
After that he got me a really cush job, but not after allowing me to turn down 3-4 crummy ones.
He even coached me on interview presentation, something which as a young person and a developer combined, I lacked even though my skills were good.
It's been roughly 4 years since, and I still talk with the guy, we go out for coffee sometimes etc. He's helped me out during times of depression/annoyement with the job market... overall career-saver for sure.
So it does exist, you just have to be lucky I guess.
On a side note, the company that ended up hiring me had and continues to have very close ties with the hiring firm. It's basically an extention of their PR department for hiring. No hiring done from outside that loop.
I wouldn't be surprised to find that some of these firms have a significant business on the side stealing identities. It is very lucrative, penalties are non-existent and there is almost no prosecution, so it's a natural niche for organized crime.
How could you prevent this? You can't. Just for the identity theft reasons alone it is probably best to avoid these firms.
Of course every potential employers wants you to provide the same information!8-((
I couldn't care if they were honest or not, jsut as long as they got me a job. That, and kept buying me dinners & lunches. They'd call me, and I'd say, "Sure, let's talk. Over lunch.", then I'd have them meet me at a very nice place for steaks and/or sushi. Why would I care if they were honest? They got me the jobs, and as long as I got paid, I didn't care if I ever saw them again (but I usually did call them up for dinner/lunch every few months).
I've had good results working with one particular headhunter, who found me my current job and negotiated a good starting deal for me, but I haven't talked to him or anyone else from his company for at least two years (I've been employed here 3+ years). So I'm not sure I'd trust him or the agency to represent me another time, just because of the lack of familiarity. Although I hadn't met him before my previous job search, and he got me my kick-ass job. I suppose I'd give him a call, just to let him know I was available again. Before this job, a headhunter found me my previous job, but it turned out that he and my former boss were old buddies. Since I conducted my last job search on the sly, I couldn't trust that recruiter not to tell my boss what I was doing. These are the kinds of risks inherent in dealing with headhunters when you're looking for work.
Lousy minor setbacks! This world sucks! -- Homer Simpson
I've worked with three companies since about '96 -- both as employer and employee, and found them to be extremely diligent. Most recently I landed an extremely good full time position at an excellent salary doing work on an interesting project. The recruiter who placed me still checks in occasionally with me and others she's placed at this company.
I am certain their are incompetent, and sometimes even deceitful recruiters out there, just as there are bad people in any field, luckily I haven't been hooked by one.
In the boom times of the late nineties, recruiters were everyone's buddies, often landing job-switchers with plum assignments at higher salaries. In the bust, even the good ones have got a bad rap - not returning emails and calls, failing to respond to resumes and correspondence, etc.
But look, IT recruiting is affected as much by the current economic cycle as developers, sysadmins, projects managers, and the rest.
At least one of the good ones I've worked with has switched careers, as business dried up. Others still have to sift through hundreds of resumes, emails, calls, and match those to a dwindling number of opportunities. It's only marginally easier to get a recruiters attention than a prospective employers these days, so how about this:
Practice selling yourself like the valuable resource you are. Here are some things that worked for me:
One more thing: Have trouble in social situations, expressing yourself to non-tech people, public-speaking? No matter, so do a lot of people, you're not alone. You can either change or expect that IT people with those skills may beat you out of opportunities. Take a public-speaking or debate course at a community college and practice. If you find yourself calling end-users 'lusers', think GUIs are for wimps, or get impatient with your grandma 'cause she can't ssh into your linux box, you need to pay close attention to what I've just said.
None of this will gurantee you'll always find honest, helpful recruiters, but at least you'll get their attention, if they're out there.
"That naive cube! How long must I suffer this!" --Sheldon J. Plankton
A contract organization is looking to solve your short-term needs with highly qualified individuals, and is hoping for repeat business. A headhunter wants to fill shoes, and is looking for volume business. A contract organization can act as a headhunter, but I'd only use them as such after giving them a 'trial' period.
One thing to look out for, however- don't use a contractor if they might be able to steal YOUR clients. It's not worth the risk, and the temptation might be too much if your business ( or the client's projects ) are small enough to be stolen.
There are two types of decent headhunter. One is a lone individual, who has a few friends from previous businesses who they know well and can count on. They are rare, since once everyone is placed, the business is over.
The other is a smallish organization who caters to a niche market, specializes, and even occasionally holds training seminars for the people they employ. Companies like this have 401(k) plans an other stuff you might be surprised to hear a contract work businees offer. Also rare.
On the other hand, if you had a really great work environment and paid well, you wouldn't have a hard time attracting good talent, would you ?!? Set those things right, and you won't _need_ a pimp... er, headhunter.
This book is filled with great tips and advice on finding the "right" job. Moreover, apart from specific suggestions, its approach will get you thinking outside the box, so to speak, and you'll come up with your own ideas.
I've had some great ideas, over the years. Some have proven successful, and others had led to spectacular failure. But I've never regretted being creative in search of a good job, because it's always landed me someplace worth being.
Keep your resume and correspondence brief and sharp. You're almost always in competition for a prospective employer's attention, so you have to stand out from the pack. A four-page resume with solid blocks of text is a bad idea. Plan your resume visually, just like an advertisement -- because that's exactly what it is.
Do whatever you can to bypass the wall of "human resources," and get to the people who are empowered to recognize skill and talent. The primary purpose of an HR department is not to hire, but rather to screen. The first thing an HR employee looks for, when picking up someone's resume, is a reason why this person can't be right for the job.
Remind yourself of some basic marketing tips and techniques. I recommend all three of Harry Beckwith's books, starting with Selling the Invisible. Everything, from your cover letter to your interview, is about selling yourself. Mention your skills, but focus on yourself. At the end of the day, in most cases, an employer isn't hiring a resume or a set of skills: He's hiring a person. You. The first three seconds of the interview are the most important, so smile and offer a firm handshake. Dress just a little bit better than is appropriate for the job; don't wear jeans, and don't wear a tux. Carry a "Thank You" card with you to the interview, and drop it into a mailbox as you leave.
Instead of trying to prove that you're the best choice, convince the employer that you're a good choice.
My two cents.
cribPlease don't read my journal
I once asked a head hunter if an interview he scheduled for me would be preceeded by a urine test. I told him I wanted to know so I could drink a bottle of water to prepare myself. (A few weeks earlier, I had to wait in a company's on-site health center for an hour "processing" water for a urine test, before they'd even let me interview). He told me it was a delicate topic, but he'd try to find out.
A few hours later, he called back and said he asked around his office and found out there are chemicals you can put in your sample cup to hide drug traces.
So not only did he assume I was a druggie and a liar (even though I told him the true reason I asked), but thinking that, he decided to not only not tell the client but help me decieve the client. When I got the job, I told the story to my boss and the HR rep. They never used that agency again.
Head hunters are like car salesmen (or worse...they're like the dealership finance manager). They get big margins, rarely get repeat customers, have a short time to close the deal (so they use high pressure tactics), and have to make regular sales to keep their jobs.
Head hunters might actually be worse, since they have to con both parties of the sale, a car salesman doesn't deal with the manufacturer.
- What they give you. The proof of a good headhunter is if they can give you introductions directly to the hiring managers for jobs you want. You are leveraging their contacts and thats it. They're not your friends or your family, so only trust them as far as their introductions. Fire ones that guilt-trip you and only be loyal to the ones that perform.
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What they don't give you - sound career advice. Headhunters can't give you good career advice. How could they?. .
.they aren't in the same field as you. Furthermore, their advice often incents you to switch jobs often. . . which helps them line their pockets and hurts your career. They can give good resume-design advice. . . that's about all the advice they CAN give you and you should probably take it -- short of lying (at least doctor-up a resume format that they like for their sales-job -- keep your original for other purposes if you feel so compelled).
- When should you [not] use them? Use them when you don't have personal contacts that can help you get in the door. At that point they are worth the money. Avoid using them to get you into a company that you already have an "in" with. They can screw up your salary negotiation and collect a fee if they've already submitted your resume where you could have been hired directly. Be up-front about having them avoid those companies you have an "in" with.
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Never sign an exclusive. This is good life advice and extends outside of headhunting. You should always be in contact with a few headhunters and then force them to compete. (although let them know which companies you are already submitted to so you don't get submitted more than once.)
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They should work all the time. Happily employed? Hoping for that big bonus? How do you know what is a good bonus and what isn't? Headhunters tell you by coming up with new job opportunities even when you aren't looking. (although they shouldn't show your resume unless they ask you first) Knowing what the market will bear is good for you career. What if you are unhappy?. . . well it sure doesn't hurt to have people beating the street for you ahead of time.
- Don't work with agents that don't respect your privacy. Good headhunters don't submit your resume without asking you first. If one submits your paper without asking you, then fire them immediately.
- Don't work with fools. Keep getting submitted for Javascript jobs when you wanted Java jobs? Stop using that headhunter. Not everyone is that inept, and it isn't worth your time to spend time on educating people who should care more about their jobs.
Good luck. . . just remember - headhunters are your suppliers (they are "contact" suppliers). They aren't your friends, and they aren't your supporters - they work for you and they only care about getting money for placing you. Treat them that way and push them to work hard and do a good job.I'm a lawyer. I represented a number of IT individuals in a case against their employer (a very big bank) for age discrimination.
Several headhunters had recruited my clients. The bank wanted people who could deal with "black box" COBOL 77 applications - in other words the bank had acquired a number of smaller banks with legacy COBOL systems in place.
The bank had a year to bring their acquisitions on-line with Fed reporting services. They told the headhunters that the people they were recruiting were to become VP's or higher (because programmers who know COBOL 77 are already senior programmers or senior system's analysts and not ready to leave the banks they were working with - especially if they found out that the bank only needed them for a single project!).
The year passed, the folks recruited away from their old jobs (some with 20+ years at their former employer) were never given an evaluation, never given a VP position and were, as a group, fired with a nice release that paid them an extra 2 weeks pay if they promised not to sue.
The top headhunter in the group that recruited 20+ IT professionals was there with an affidavit on the federal complaint and went on to testify that his firm had been mislead by the bank.
This firm, and the top guy, walked the walk and told the truth in deposition and would have testified on the stand but for the (substantial) settlement on the Saturday before trial.
His own words, "If my reputation is lost I will never be able to work this town again." I can't say more, but that the city was the greater Kansas City (MO/KS) area and a national association bank was the defendant.
His firm never had business from the NA bank. But I have great respect for his willingness to put his company on the line for one ugly job.
Is that they do not work for you. They work for themselves and they want to place bodies no matter what. Another thing is that they know that there is little chance that they will get repeat business from you but there is a good chance that they will get repeat business from the employer, therefore they are more interested in pleasing the employer than pleasing you. Third, they make a big stinking commision for placing you. Don't be shy to ask them for some of it. They will pay you a signing bonus if they have to.
The difference between Canada and the USA is that in Canada healthcare is a right and gun ownership is a privilege.
a.k.a. TechieGold.com, a.k.a. Atlantis Partners, a.k.a. Boylston Group, a.k.a. MacArthur Associates, a.k.a. Remington International...
I once repsonded to this job posting and the recruiter wanted me to come in to their San Jose office and talk to them. They also wanted references. Sure, what the hell. I was told to make sure my resume was on their techie gold website. I came in, went through some dorky formulaic interview, and was sent on my way with promises that they'd be in touch. I'd been laid off recently, so I felt like I had accomplished something. This same office then used my "references" as contacts (I know, I was naive) and tried to pitch people to them and otherwise hit them up. They later screwed up with one of my references by claiming they were an authorized vendor for his company when there weren't - they had pitched a good guy, but my friend couldn't hire him.
Cut to a month later, and I am asked to come up to a recruiter in San Francisco. Before I get there they tell me about Techie Gold, and I tell them I'm already in there. When I get there the first thing I notice is that their computers are identical - the same iMacs appearing to run the same software as the place in San Jose. They run me through the SAME exact interview process (write some acronym on the resume and proceed to ask questions) and then I have to ask what their relationship to this other firm is. They say that they're both "Techie Gold Partners", whatever that means. I explain how their offices are laid out EXACTLY the same and the interview is EXACTLY the same. She repeats that they are "Techie Gold Partners". At least this time I didn't give them "references".
So I get home and do some digging around and realize that this company, Stride and Associates, is either selling headhunter franchies or operating these "companies" in the attempt to look diverse. Either way they aren't very honest about it, and aren't very good. If you talk to a company using one of those four names or who wants you to go to TechieGold to fill out your resume don't bother. They probably are just looking for "contacts" and don't really have the job anyway.
"Where quality is like a dead stinking rat - you just can't miss it."
Exactly.
I know a good recruiter in SF who placed the same guy 3 times during the dotcom boom, then this guy launched his own startup and used her to hire 2 people. She invests in the long-term.
Obviously, she understands the value in long term, but she's pretty rare. Sometimes she asks me technical questions when she's doing research on requirements. All recruiters are not clueless.
Also, a lot of people are forgetting that recruiters can add value in other ways, even in this economy. Any job offering nowadays get a load of resumes. Who's going to shuffle through all those? If the hiring manager uses a headhunter, then the resumes get filtered.
Some companies can afford to use recruiters as temporary HR personnel.
--t
I received a nine month (six+three) contract through a head hunter. My experience was actually quite good. At the time, I was not aware of the reputation of headhunters.
/.) I told management there was nothing for me to do, but they asked that I stay, "In case anything happens to the servers"
It was one of my first significant jobs in my career as a developer. I had little experience, and no more education than a high school diploma. I did profess to be good with computers. (And I am!)
Both the headhunters and the company I was to be placed at liked me; I was hired.
The company I was working for was a small dot-*cough* Of course, this was before the bubble burst. I was actually told by the headhunters, "We don't normally deal with clients this small, but we know these guys, and we think they're going somewhere"
I was being paid CAD$25/hr, eventually I got a raise to $29. Not too bad for me, at the time. The headhunter's cut off that was $13/hr. When I found this out, I was a little offended. Still, I was making okay cash, and after a year the company was allowed to hire me without the need to buy my contract.
The, predictably, the company went south. I spent the last couple months warming a chair (and reading
(Did I mention I was hired as a developer -- but this was after the sys admins had quit. Servers weren't under any real load, and everything was pretty automated.)
After two months of this, I was contacted by an old employer and offered a position. I took it and worked both jobs part time.
Not two weeks after taking the new job, the headhunters contacted me. I was asked not to go back, because there were some problems regarding payment. This didn't really prove to be a problem; I transitioned nicely into full time at the other job.
I found out later that the company had burned the headhunters for about $30,000. (There was a second contractor, as well.) Apparently, the company was promising for months to get their bills paid. Of course, this never happened.
Looking back, I am very glad the headhunters were there. I was paid by them, every two weeks, right into my account. I know other people who worked there and have long given up on receiving any money they were owed.
A few weeks after I stopped going there, the office manager called me, to ask if I would work under the table. I laughed at her.
I still talk to the guys at the headhunter's once in a while. Even went to a couple christmas parties after my work with them was done.
First my disclaimer. I am not affiliated with Teksystems other than as a previous satisfied consultant. I am not working for them now. I have 9 years of consulting experience which has been a mixed bag.
TekSystems is a first class outfit. I had some dealings with them in the Detroit area and everyone I had contact with there was professional, honest, and hard working.
When I moved to Denver, I found their branch out here to be just as good. They placed me and they showed the same interest and enthusiasm in me after I was placed as before. After I was hired on full time they continued to followup occasionally.
Laid off now, they are the recruiters that I went to first. All in all, my best recruiter experience ever.
And now for a shameless plug: My resume If you are looking for a Linux/UNIX, web/sys admin, PHP or Perl developer, hit me up.
Of course, many (perhaps most) tech writers, managers, and head hunters are technologically clueless. I hope you're not going to argue that this is no big thing. Maybe head hunters are superfluous, but you're naive if you think that we can dispense with tech writers or managers. Though many developers seem to think you can...
I talked to a head hunter a few days ago for a contract job. (You can't get contract work without dealing with recruiters, unless you have a lot of personal contacts.) At first I was appalled by her technical ignorance. But as she listened to my explanations of what I'd been doing, and how it might relate to the job she was trying to fill, I realized she had the native intelligence to do her job properly, even if it meant filling in her knowledge gaps on the fly. She'll do well. She is, alas, an exception.
What a good, honest head hunter brings to the table is connections. He or she has a relationship with a lot of managers, and has studied their needs carefully. The last time I got a permanent job through a head hunter, she earned her commission by connecting me with an obscure startup I never would have found on my own. And she did a better job of pitching me to the company than I ever could have done on my own. I simply would not have gotten the job without her help.
It's worth mentioning that one of the other head hunters in her firm tried to steal her commission. He got hold of my contact info, called me up behind her back, and persuaded me to go to an interview with one of his clients. As you might expect with such an unprincipled asshole, he hadn't made the slightest attempt to confirm that I was anything like a match for the job, and the whole thing was a big waste of time. Unfortunately, this jerk is far more typical than his co-worker.
And more so now, then when this all happened. This was before there were sites like monster.com, that help you make your own connections. Which seems to have discouraged the more honest and capable recruiters, but not the nitwits who just spam managers with poorly chosen resumes.
"Seems to me that establishing a long-term relationship with fewer as opposed to screwing people over in volume would make good business sense to garner repeat business."
That makes good business sense for a recruiting firm. Unfortunately, headhunters aren't looking to stay in that job for a long time. They either want to hop from job to job increasing their salaries and collecting bonuses along the way and cash out early (Much like the people they are trying to place.), or they're occupational transients-people who are smart and capable enough to handle a white-collar job, but not ready to settle into a career.
And don't forget that jobhunters know that headhunters are scum, and probably hate them just as much as you do. Smart techies often ignore headhunters altogether, instead just focusing on personal networking and direct applications to bigger companies with recruiting departments.
Do yourself-and the industry-a favor. Don't feed those bastards, and maybe they'll all die off.
I recommend strong caution before you ever pay someone to assist you in your job search. For more information see: Jobscams.com
Evolution: love it or leave it
Well. So much to write. So little time tonight. I have read quite a bit that I would like to respond to. I will see how much I can get to before I start falling asleep.
Yes, the recruiting industry has a generally bad reputation. There are a LOT of scumbag recruiters out there. And I cannot tell you how much more difficult they make it for me to do my work.
I am a sole proprietor. I like my 'job'. I hope that I am a little different from the average headhunter. I generally work fairly low volume, and work to build solid long term relationships with clients. I also work to build long term relationships with candidates. I get to know people well, and the companies well, so that my placements are happy, and so that the companies are happy. Somewhere over 95% of my placements stay at their positions for 2 years or more. Is this normal? No. That is why I am still in business when many of my competitors have gone under. I also have the advantage that I was once a software developer, so I 'speak the language' a little better than most recruiters.
Fees: In my city, the standard fee is 20%. I only collect my fee when a candidate accepts and starts a position. In most cases the company pays me within 30 days of the start. I have a 6 month 100% replacment guarantee. I work hard to provide the best service for my fee. But this does not make me rich, especially with the economy being down for 2.5 years.
I bring value to a company. I find them the people they need, in the time frame they are looking for. In the long run I SAVE money for my clients.
I am on the phone all week long. I am contacting clients and candidates. Some may think it is easy to make a quick buck from a placement, but those people have no idea how much time and effort is spent long before a good job order arrives on my desk. I keep files on over 300 companies. Most of those companies I have never worked with, but may in the future.
My suggestions for a candidate looking for an 'honest' headhunter:
1) Ask friends (but not current coworkers) for the names of recruiters they like and trust.
2) If you have doubts about the person/agency then call first. If you cannot talk with a person, and if they do not return your call, take that as a big hint to look somewhere else.
3) Make sure that the company will not send your resume ANYWHERE without your explicit permission. You should get a detailed job description before agreeing to have your resume sent. In my case, I tell my candidates the company name after they have agreed to have their resume sent. (Hint, if you have already sent your resume to the company, and you did not recognize the job description, then part of the problem is of your own creation.)
4) Make sure the recruiter asks about (preferred) or listens to (acceptable) your own GOALS. The recruiter should be able to give you an idea about how realistic your goals are.
5) In better times I keep in touch with all my candidates. I generally work with 10-20 people at a time. Currently I am working with over 200 unemployed IT related people, so I do not have time to call all of them even every few weeks. At present I only call when I have jobs. I spend most of my time trying to find positions for at least SOME of the people I am working with.
6) As someone posted CORRECTLY, the absolute BEST way to find yourself a new position is through networking. A very high percentage of jobs are found that way.
For companies looking for an honest headhunter:
0) Dang. This is a hard one to quantify.
1) Look for value, not price. Look for a contract with guarantees. Ask for references from other satisfied customers of the recruiter.
2) Look for quality, not quantity. Make sure you have a clause in your contract that says you can cancel the contract and not accept resumes if the quality is poor. Limit the number of resumes that the recruiter is allows to send for each position.
3) Make sure the recruiter understands your industry and product.
Well, I hope this helps.
If anyone has specific questions, please ask.