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Motorola To Spin Off Chip Division
dafz1 writes "According to an article
at CNET News, Motorola
has announced they will create a new company from their Semiconductor Products
Sector (SPS), which builds chips such as the PowerPC. Reasons cited include 'surrendering to IBM a key role in delivering the PowerPC for Apple Computer's top-of-the-line desktop'. This follows earlier news that Motorola's CEO will step down, citing a 'difference
of opinion' with fellow executives."
Too bad they didn't do this a couple of years ago. We would have been a lot better off. Good to see the executives saw the same thing.
- oZ
// i am here.
in this, but from what I have gathered, Motorola was the prime reason Apple chips fell behind, Moto and Co. simply weren't interested (or up to the task?) in producing new chips for them.
With a new division spun off, perhaps this will change?
So rise up, all ye lost ones, as one, we'll claw the clouds.
Perhaps now they will be able to crank out those new chips in good time... as opposed to every other year!
The new company at least will give a damn about its chip business -- it's all they've got -- something that Mot itself never did.
Surprised they didn't sell it, but they probably couldn't find any takers.
Surrendering to IBM a key role in delivering the PowerPC for Apple Computer's top-of-the-line desktop'
Um... last time I checked it was Motorola lackluster development the drove Apple into IBM's arms.
Fellow Executives: "We'd like to make market-leading products. And money."
CEO: "Meh."
Thre you have it, a difference of opinion.
Napster-to-go says "Fill and refill your compatible MP3 player", which is a lie. It's not MP3. It's WMA with DRM.
Years ago I was talking to some of the semi guys, and they were royally pissed at MOTO corporate for screwing them over, funding-wise. The PPC division was always paranoid that they were getting screwed because Moto lost big $$ when Apple shut down the Mac clones way back when.
Basically, they believed Moto corporate was sandbagging the PPC to "screw Apple."
One thing for sure, they definitely need better cooks for the broth. They've seem to forgotten how to make chips.
Motorola has been having problems with their advanced semiconductor products, particularly PowerPC microprocessors, for years. When Apple first released the Power Mac G4, there were so many fabrication problems at Motorola's chip foundries that Apple initially had to scale back what were supposed to be 500MHz G4s to 450MHz, a move that really hurt Apple's credibility in the computing world.
More recently, Moto had been having problems delivering G4 7447s in sufficient quantities for Apple to release their Powerbook upgrades, including the much-ballyhooed 15" Aluminum model. In any case, Apple's decision to go with IBM's PowerPC technology was probably motivated as much by pragmatic corporate survivalism as any other factor -- they simply couldn't afford to be tied down by a semiconductor sloth like Motorola.
In any case, I doubt this means much for Moto's embedded processor and microcontroller business, which has been thriving for quite some time. It just doesn't operate under the same pressure as the rapidly advancing world of high-performance microprocessor products. The 68HC11 and HCS12 will probably be around for a very long time to come.
I think the difference was he wanted to remain employed, and they didn't agree...
Sarcasm and hyperbole are the final refuges for weak minds
Sure, it's great for employees to have an in-house Potato Chips departement, but companies should concentrate on one thing, and do it well.
So, is the new chip division/ company going to not suck?
[[ / bitter mac user who blames Motorola for the fact that the PowerPC was basically at a total standstill for the two years before the G5 was released ]]
It's seems likely to me that Motorolla did not want to use it's own semiconductors in it's communications business. But doing so would, in essence, be a vote of no confidence in their own semiconductor business.
By spinning off their semi-conductor biz and framing it as a move to meet demands from other customers, they are able to ditch their processors without outright killing their semiconductor business.
If the spinoff does poorly, they'll quietly kill it later. If it does well, they'll either start using their products again or sell it off for a big profit.
It's sad to see Motorolla leaving the chip business though. :-(
What's to become of Metrowerks?
Presumably it will follow the semiconductor division [since a CPU ain't worth diddly-squat without a compiler], but maybe they want to keep you so that you can write a compiler for their cellphone operating systems?
Have you heard yet?
Or... it will go on a rampage of litigation, suing IBM for 'stealing SIMD' and Intel for infringing on their 'use silicon chips as CPUs'. Eventually all Apple G4 users will get mail asking for an 'extended Altivec Licensing Fee' of $499 per CPU.
Nevermind.
"Sometimes, I think Trent just needs a cup of hot chocolate and a blankie." -Tori Amos on Nine Inch Nails
Motorola has done a horrible job of marketing their technology over the years, from the failed and forgotten AIM (Apple, IBM, and Motorola) alliance (remember? Taligent? "Pink"? Yeah, me neither...) to their more recent "Digital DNA" (I still don't know what that meant) marketing campaign.
What does Motorola do? As far as the rest of the world is concerned, they make cellphones and stuff. People hear about the PowerMac from Apple, and occasionally the PowerPC from IBM, but they hear nothing that makes sense out of Motorola. Hopefully this will change, for their sake.
pb Reply or e-mail; don't vaguely moderate.
Motorola was placed in contrast with Zenith. Both companies were established at around the same time and were basically in the same market. Over time, however, Zenith languished while Motorola kept on crankin' out the hits. Motorola's culture encouraged innovation and relentless focus on quality.
Those of you who graduated from college in the 1990s or 2000s likely won't remember this, but in the 1980s, Motorola was one of the view companies that was consistently beating Japanese companies in quality. They were hailed by US government and business leaders alike as an exemplar of what an American business could do in a challenging international market.
This is just further proof that nobody sits on top forever, and that keeping a very large, multinational business dynamic is a tremendously difficult task.
Read the EFF's Fair Use FAQ
What the, snip away pieces of shielding. Wedge what, bent bottom. Well unless there thousands of users with bent up snipped on TiBooks around, I'd say that I wouldn't trust you to change my channel let alone touch my PB. Then again my Pismo is the ultimate in simplicity, raise the kb, connect the antenna, pop in the card. Then again I'm sure you'd find a way to have to remove several of the keys on the keyboard to do the install.
Oh and, good idea about going with the Dell. After all, their designs are perfect. Lord knows, doing anything with a Latitude is very straight forward. I guess you would cut off a couple of lug nuts if a rim didn't fit on your car right and then swear off Chevy's and only drive Hyundais right.
Oh, and as for the card going IN the machine, hey, beats the hell out of having the stupid pccard catch on my laptop bag, or get knocked around (I've been seeing a lot of tattered looking Cisco cards around the office lately), or scream to everyone "HEY LOOK AT ME, I GOT ME THAT WIFI".
Now mention drivers for 3rd party 802.11a cards, and then you'll get me venting too, though that isn't Apples fault.
The G3 chips that Apple still uses (ibooks) have been made by IBM for some time now.
Ithe rumor mills claim great things in store for the IBM G3s in future generations (including altivec support) and ever increased efficiency. I would guess in the next year or so, when Apple roughly predicted a G5 powerbook, we will see everything switch to G5 or these next generation G3 chips.
These super efficient and powerful G3 chips might lead to more fun machines like the fanless cube and iMac... let alone great news for ibook users.
Are you just trolling? If not, this might help you next time. These things are easy to do.1 33
http://docs.info.apple.com/article.html?artnum=95
I would like to see the new spinoff merge with MIPS and create some real compeition to IBM if not Intel. Then maybe we can get some real alternatives to x86. It would be nice to be able to compute on cheap platforms other than x86. With with Linux as your OS it will not matter much which platform one uses along as the the platform supports linux and vice versa.
It would be nice to be able to compute on cheap platforms other than x86
Not that I am disagreeing, but why? Why is it important that we use this or the other basic set of machine instructions?
Overall, the end user sees no difference (run linux on ppc or x86. they both behave the same).
Sometimes change for the sake of change is not the desired effect. Now, if they were to come up with a revoutionary way of combining the basic operational instructions into one low-power chip (cpu, io, gpu, etc.) then there is a reason, but otherwise its just reinventing the wheel. Waste of human talent.
That whiz-bang Opteron/Itanium is Backwards compatible to the Pentium II MMX/K6-2, which is backwards compatible to the 80486, which is backwards compatible to the 386+387, which is backwards compatible to the 286+287, which is backwards compatible to the 8086+8087, which is backwards compatible to the 8080, which is backwards compatible to the 8008, which is backwards compatible to the 4004, which was designed for use in a pocket calculator. Likewise, that VIA K7VMM is backwards compatible to the PC JR and Win XP is backwards compatible (to some degree) to QDOS.
Because I do not use legacy binary-only software, I do not need my machine to be backwards compatible to run old DOS programs etc. Some things can be done much more efficiently with an architecture designed with modern features in mind from the start. I would love to get my hands on sizeable quantities of PPC G5 workstations, but because of economies of scale & microsoft's stranglehold, the only architechture available at a reasonable price from multiple vendors is the descendants of the IBM PC.
I graduated in '93, and I got a job at Motorola in the cellular division. I worked there for 5 years, and couldn't take it anymore. Their "culture" is manufactured, and I was very surprised that they got anything accomplished. But it depends on the different divisions and how they are doing. Ours (cellular services) did OK, but we were riding on the coattails of the divisions that were doing really good (phone mfgr and radios comes to mind). They had a bonus plan in place were every 6 months you got a bonus if you met the goals set out for your division. It was given to you as a percentage of what you made in the previous 6 months. My first 6 months there we got 11%, then 4%, then 1.3%, then they cut it out all together. The year before I got there, one division got 34%. They capped it after that. It would actually produce animosity within the company. It was generally a solid company that was on a steady decline. People who had been there 10 years who were just skating on their "time served". People who had been there 20+ years who were called "lifers" and they could pretty much do as little as they wished. Ten years was called "getting your tenure". Boy, those people got a wake-up call a couple of years ago. Some people have only worked there, and they don't know what goes on outside of Moto. If you have ever met someone who has worked there for a long time, you know what I mean. Many people I know that left there have had similar experiences.
It is a very weird place. After I lost my job at the place I left Moto for (company investors pulled out during the bubble burst), I went back to Moto. I thought "it can't be as bad as I remember it." It was. I went to have a meeting to do a pre-interview. Some HR drone talked to me to gauge my skillset. I was told it would be about 4 weeks for my paperwork to be processed, and if I was a fit anywhere, I would be contacted for interviews. It was such a sterile, devoid atmosphere that it was creepy. I told her "thanks, but no thanks" and walked out, vowing to never go back.
This is just further proof that nobody sits on top forever, and that keeping a very large, multinational business dynamic is a tremendously difficult task.
I got to see just one small piece of the company, and if the rest of it was anything at all like where I worked, good riddance. Of course, I do own stock that I purchased while there. It was around 90, then did a 3 to 1 split, and now it is around 11. Yay.
My beliefs do not require that you agree with them.
First I had to take the entire thing apart. This, if you've been inside a laptop, is not an easy trivial task. It needs the battery and case to come off, the drive and optical drive to come out, and apples STUPID design inside them meant I had to file away some parts as they were put in without obviously meaning to be taken apart again.
RTFM, dumbass.
For starters, Apple's optional AirPort is built to use the pre-wired Powerbook antennae (for what they're worth in the TiPB) so it's a custom part. You _can_ use a standard part (such as an 802.11g) in the PC-card slot, though it's uglier.
In addition, according to Apple's free installation documentation, you remove the battery, pull the base plate, slip in the airport card, attach antenna, and close it up. They even draw you a picture!
If you were pulling optical drives or filing pieces, then you obviously didn't RTFM.
OTOH, having worked on junker PC laptops for the better part of a decade, I have to say that the PB is probably the easiest to work on I've ever owned. I had to reseat the 'q' key at one point after I dropped something on the keyboard, and luckily the keyboard is removable via ribbon connector! I restored the kybd with a bit of under-membrane surgery and tweezing, and I couldn't have asked for better. BTW, if you want to upgrade the PB RAM, the SODIMM slot is under the easily-removed keyboard.
I plan on holding onto mine until the toy budget recovers and/or the G5 Powerbook is available.
I need to vent guys and here I hope I find sympathy! I HATE MACS
There are perfectly valid reasons to hate Macs. Your rant, OTOH, is just sad.
Anyway, I've talked my friend into getting rid of her Mac addiction, she will definitely be buying a Dell next!
With friends like you, who needs Saddam Hussein?
Strange, from apparent capability I wouldn't even let you into the same room as my computers. Macs or PCs. I've seen quite a few Dell laptops here at work...do you hate your friend that much?
What are you talking about? PPC chips have buffer overflows too. Hell, there was a bug in Mac OS X where you could actually cause a buffer overrun just by entering too much text in the login window of a screensaver.
Read the EFF's Fair Use FAQ
Surprisingly enough, it was the opposite. We were on flex time. I came in around 9:00, would take an hour lunch, sometimes more, and would work until 6:00 or 7:00. But I put in a lot of late nights, many times weekends. There was one stretch where I worked 60 hour weeks back to back. The record hours for our department was 83 in a week. It seemed the more we worked, the more was expected of us. But aside from all that, which I think was just our department's management, the overall culture was kind of weird. But only if you looked at it from the outside. From the inside, it was all normal.
Don't get me wrong, there were some very smart people there, and I learned a lot. I use what I learned as a benchmark for what I do now. They had a lot of good processes in place. We were CMM level 3 at one point. We were working with telephony equipment and emerging technology in cellular. We used Tandem computers, which were huge refrigerator sized fault-tolerant machines. I had to learn a new OS (Guardian). I learned a lot about how to (and how not to) implement process and procedures. I also learned how stupid a big company can be. On our Sun servers, we each had our own webpage. Me and another guy rolled out our department's internal website. This was back when Mosaic first came out. The web was new, so it was cool to learn. Hell, we didn't even have access to web yet! But there is a dark side - I got written up by HR for having "non-work related material" on my web page. They were engineering jokes someone had emailed me. It was total BS, they wanted to write me up as a class 1 infraction, which meant one more and I would be fired. My boss tried to stand up for me, and essentially got it knocked down to a class 2 infraction. That was the beginning of the end for my time there, and I knew it was time to leave. I value what I learned there, but I am so glad that I left.
My beliefs do not require that you agree with them.
I know what you are trying to say, but from another point of view, you are looking at a phone as a strickly "talk to one another" device, as it was invented many decades ago - but it does not have to be like that.
case in point: In Japan, the most frequent thing people in general do on their cellphones is to key email messages to eachother (especially students, since it's cheaper to email), that followed closely by snapping shots at nearly EVERYTHING.
for me, I use my phone (DoCoMo) the most for
1) schedule / alarm
2) browse internet for train information
3) pictures
4) emailing
5) talking
Now, sure, it's be nice and fine if you got a phone that has bullet proof voice capability but has monochrome text-only screens, but i sure as heck am not going to buy it; it does not fit with my lifestyle.
just another way to look at it, i guess.
My life in the land of the rising sun.
IBM did the same thing with its old printer division. IBM spun off the division into a separate company, Lexmark.
In this age where many companies like Sun, Cisco, and Intel favor H-1B workers and deliberately create a work environment with brutal, cutthroat competition, it is nice to know that some companies like Motorola and IBM still try to cling to some shred of humanity that once characterized the finest American companies.
Could Apple buy Motorola's semiconductor unit and would they have reason to do so?
Macintosh humor! MacComedy.com
Here are a couple of examples of their business cluelessness:
At one time Windows Ran on the PPC-and instead of investing in a hard-core partnership with MS ala Intel they let Windows NT for PPC die on the vine.
Another example-Motorolla DID NOT EAT THEIR OWN DOGFOOD. That's right massive portions of the Moto business domain used INTEL PROCESSORS in their PC's. White Oak Semiconductor a joint chip fab in VA was a client of mine for a brief period (I moved,) The entire Moto team there used HP PC's to get the job done-I am sure if they could have made up JUST A BIT of the loss from the Apple cloe biz if they had used their own products internally. I'm sorry but that's insanity to me.
But the real reason for the demise of their computer chip business was not examples like above (although they helped,) but instead was caused by Motos inability to keep up with the competition. For years apple let Moto be their main chip vendor only to see IBM's PPC products out perform Motos-not at all to mention the fact that the CISC kids at Intel/AMD KICK THEIR ASS in the performance battles.
Please do not think I am falling into the Megahertz myth-the fact remains that Apple real world performance has lagged seriously lagged for some time. This has NEVER been a fault of the PPC architecture as IBM has show again and again.
So yes, lets hope the spin off works well for the Moto chip guys but I would not be hopefull.
The good news for fans of choice and diversity is this.
1. The G5 is AWESOME and will continue to get better.
2. IBM has a clue.
3. Even if the PPC disapered as a platform today Apple has managed to abstracttheir software from any particular chip vendor thanks to using the Mach microkernal (not to mention they have been running skunkworks projects for years to make sure the MacOS could run in x86 varients for years.)
All and all this is nothing but a GOOD thing for everyone involved. Apple gets a better product. IMB gets some real sales from their chip biz. And hopefull the now indie Moto guys gan do a little bit better than when they were shackled to Moto.
Is'nt the free market great ;-)
jd
"A buffer overflow occurs when a program or process tries to store more data in a buffer (temporary data storage area) than it was intended to hold. Since buffers are created to contain a finite amount of data, the extra information - which has to go somewhere - can overflow into adjacent buffers, corrupting or overwriting the valid data held in them. Although it may occur accidentally through programming error, buffer overflow is an increasingly common type of security attack on data integrity. In buffer overflow attacks, the extra data may contain codes designed to trigger specific actions, in effect sending new instructions to the attacked computer that could, for example, damage the user's files, change data, or disclose confidential information. Buffer overflow attacks are said to have arisen because the C programming language supplied the framework, and poor programming practices supplied the vulnerability." The buffer overflows exploited in Windows are mostly problems that are inherent in either the operating system, or common microsoft-specific apps. The HL2 source code was stolen using a buffer overflow in Outlook Express. Learn how to program. (BTW, I'm 8 years old. If I'm wrong about this, you sure should be proud.)
So what was the 88000?
Speaking as an ex-Motorolan, I have to agree that this guy is spot-on. I worked there for two years, and this place was as close to Dilbert-land as can be possible in real life. "Steady decline", lifers, guys who have not done a stitch of work for years, baffling political undercurrents etc. I quickly learned that some of the secretaries are mines of information. I befriended a pretty one to whom all the bosses were known to spill the beans to make themselves seem important, and learned of important stuff weeks (sometimes months) before public pronouncements.
During the two years I worked there, I worked on at least 5 different projects that were subsequently canceled. Motorola does not believe in canceling projects efficiently. What happens is that funding for the project dries up, and the politically savvy guys get out. The naive ones (I was one for a while) show up to work and keep working, desperately trying to fix bugs etc while their bosses try to feign interest.
Motorola does not have much longer to run. Samsung and Nokia will kick their asses.
Magnus.
So what was the 88000?
It was a too little too late attempt to rectify their mistake. By the time they came out with the 88k all the major workstation manufacturers had already chosen or rolled their own. The 88k would be less than a footnote in history if not for the parts of it that they utilized for the PPC. Fact is that Sun begged and pleaded with Moto to come up with a RISC proccie and Moto's failure to act is one of the biggest management mistakes in the early days of computing.
Isn't the more important question who would buy the division? My best guess (and hope) would be IBM. They already have an understanding of the underlying architecture for the 7400 and 7500 series chips, and their new fab could probably use the business brought in by the lower speed embedded market
A few years ago (in the wake of the Iridium fiasco) they already spun off part of their Semiconductor Products Sector (specifically the division that made discrete components, SSI glue logic, power electronics, and similar stuff) into the company that eventually became ON Semiconductor. Now the rest of SPS is following! At this rate, what will be left of their company?
Qu'on me donne six lignes écrites de la main du plus honnête homme, j'y trouverai de quoi le faire pendre.
A note on the PPC Windows. IIRC at the time this was a availible, the primary consumer of the PPC chips were Apple users, so it wasnt' so much that motorola let it die so much as there was no demand.
T Money
World Domination with a plastic spoon since 1984
You think that there was no demand for Windows/PPC. I think there was no demand because Moto is and perhapbs will always be TERRIBLE at marketing their often very good products.
Again I point out the fact they they were not even a customer of their own products as indicative of their backwards buisness sense. WHile I know that internal use ofthe PPC by Moto would not equal the amount of chips purchased by Apple by any streatch-still Moto is a HUGE company. That just pains me to think about. Can you imagine Intel using AMD PC's? Or Ford using Volvos internally?
Still regardless of who is right on your point (and to be fair you could be but for me its still tough to call it that way,) in my mind Motos REAL failure was their inability to deliver a competitive product. Intel, AMD, and especially IBM (on the same platform no less) all collectivly kicked Motos ass.
cheers
jd
Very little if any of the 88000 went into the PPC. As for the 88000 not finding a home in Workstations, that is hardly suprising concidering the processor was designed with robotics in mind. The CPU world does not revolve around Workstations. In fact, they account for only a fraction of the CPU/MPU market. Some of the concepts pioneered in the 88000 did show up later in some high end DSPs. I can't remember, off teh top of my head, which series. RISC design concepts were incorporated in the 68000 series from at least the tail end of the 80s, certainly sooner then Intel doing the same with the x86. The lackluster adotion of the 88000 had more to do with the concervative nature of the MPU market rather then any problem with the device. And I will reiterate, to Motorola, Workstations are a niche market, dwarfed by everything else.
My understanding was that Moto lost around a hundred million on the deal, which back then was (and still is today) a large chunk of cash. It probably nuked a bunch of careers and caused serious ill will.
If you've ever dealt with corps at that level, well, people don't forgive and forget. Upper management are elephants when it comes to stuff like this, and institutional memory preserves the vibe.
Just look at IBM going after Microsoft with Linux. They're loving every minute, and every Linux win is another way to grind Microsoft's face in the dirt.
In fact, the slogan for the Linux BU at IBM should be "Rust Never Sleeps."
Anyway, the point is that once you get to a certain level people don't forget...and they will actively try to screw you. Moto is one such company.
The whole bus unit went into the 601, the
PPC 60x bus as implemented is almost exactly the 88110 bus.
Starman97@Gmail.com (bring it on spammers)
You should look up the history of the 78000 > 88100 family... look for names like Richard Ross and Tom Gunter. It's the reason why Moto never succeeded in the high end microprocessor market.
Then look up the MicroTac marketing fiasco, and how the analog cellular group held down the digital group to preserve their status. That's what let Nokia and Ericsson into the market.
Starman97@Gmail.com (bring it on spammers)
Now there's a guy who excels at helping good companies flush themselves down the drain - first Motorola, then Kodak.
Can you imagine Intel using AMD PC's?
Heh, just an amusing factoid for you. Up untill I think a little before the debut of the P4, Intel's marketing division used almost exclusively macintosh computers. Does that count?
But yeah, i see your point, I just think the death of WinPPC had more to do with no mac users wanting Windows rather than Moto not marketing the chip well.
T Money
World Domination with a plastic spoon since 1984
The real sad thing is that once again x86 is the only architecture left with a fundamental market feature, alternative sources of supply.
I really want to see PowerPC or some other RISC succeeding in the mass market with GNU. But we need alternative sources of supply: SPARC is not targetting the mass market or GNU, PowerPC is left with IBM, Alpha is dying, MIPS also misses the mass market, ARM doesn't scale up... and x86 is fragmenting, and no one know if the future generations will be proprietary as too prevent alternatives.
Leandro Guimarães Faria Corcete DUTRA
DA, DBA, SysAdmin, Data Modeller
GNU Project, Debian GNU/Lin
What does Rust Never Sleeps mean?
Mac OS X and Windows XP working side by side to fight back the night.
Your right. I remembered after I posted. What I had been thinking about was some preliminary drawings I had seen while at Motorola. A lot had changed by the time the device reached silicon.