Ten Years Of The Linux Counter

hta writes "In a testament to the fact that Linux has been around for a while, the Linux Counter turned turned ten last month. The site has been counting a few of the users of Linux since September of 1993, and currently lists more than 130.000 names. It's still waiting for Linus Torvalds to claim registration #1, which has been reserved for him for the last ten years. Among the events that have happened in 10 years of running the counter, the Slashdot events are some of the more memorable."

Comments

Sir Haxalot, help us out

[Anonymous Coward]

We need the google cache or the "artical" text ASAP!

Re:Sir Haxalot, help us out

[Sir Haxalot]

We need the google cache or the "artical" text ASAP!
Your loss :D

Uptime?

[Eric_Cartman_South_P]

I wonder if any Linux computers have 10 years of uptime?!?

Re:Uptime?

[jptxs]

if they did, what kernel would they be running?

Re:Uptime?

[suwain_2]

I doubt it. There are Linux boxes that probably could run 10 years, but frankly, I wouldn't want anything to do with them for a few reasons.

First, although it's not nearly as bad as most Microsoft products, there has certainly been more than one kernel-related exploit in the past 10 years. Anyone who's had ten years of uptime is going to have some massive security holes.

The second problem is hardware. What were you using ten years ago? Frankly, I don't even remember what I used. I'll guess rather blindly and say a 66 MHz 486 was cutting-edge ten years ago. My desktop machine has dual processors, each about 25 times faster. A LOT has happened to hardware over ten years; anything that's run for ten years is probably bordering on obsolete.

Finally... Even if Linux was truly perfect, I doubt you can get hardware to run for ten years. If you're using IDE, you've probably gone through a few disks if you run 24/7; unless it's a massive server, you probably ended up shutting down even if it ran SCSI. And although hardware doesn't ordinarily break down out of the blue, I've had bizarre things happen before; earlier this month I swapped out a network card that seems to have been possessed for no particular reason. And even if the hardware was perfect, I'd like to see you get power to it for ten years straight. Even on an enormous UPS that can run for weeks, you're eventually going to have to change batteries.

The highest uptime I've ever seen was about 101 days; oddly all our changes happen right around then, whether it be moving to an entirely new box, building a new kernel, or (most recently) have the network card start acting all weird right after hitting 100 days uptime. People have gone more than a year, but I really have to question their wisdom.

Re:Uptime?

[Xzzy]

> The highest uptime I've ever seen was about 101
> days; oddly all our changes happen right around
> then,

Not going to start a pissing contest for the trolls and be specific, but I've seen numerous machines that exceed that number, by a lot. It seems dependent on what they do and what kind of load they're put under.

Obviously a good UPS helps too.

In my experience, regular downtime is actually a good thing. In EVERY case where I've dealt with a machine that had a 3 digit uptime, as soon as it reboots and/or stays down for more than a few minutes, hardware dies. Considering such outages are often unplanned (and there's often many machines at once).. it makes a stressful situation much more so.

Frequently and routinely shutting machines down allows one to deal with these failures much more smoothly.

Re:Uptime?

[CGP314]

One Word: NASA

Re:Uptime?

[ender81b]

I would be suprised considering there is no real point to having a computer up for 10 years running linux .1. Especially considering the type of people who would be running Linux 10 years ago were probably interested in developing it, not in using it for something that would require 10 years of uptime. Now 10 years from today would somebody have a linux box with 10 years uptime... quite possible.

On the other hand,at various IBM confrences i've talked to plenty of folks whose IBM big iron mainframes have uptimes of 10-15 years. And a friend of mine has a old BSD DNS box that currently has an uptime of 3.5 years. It's been sitting at his parents house collecting dust over the years and, despite having no UPS, has somehow managed to remain up and running.

Re:Uptime?

[Cid Highwind]

0.99.something, probably. 1.0 was released in March of 1994.

http://edge-op.org/files/kernel-timeline

Re:Uptime?

[DA-MAN]

trust me, NASA doesn't know that much about keeping a Linux box going....

Re:Uptime?

[Charlton Heston]

Ten years ago I was running Linux on a 3 MIPS 80386SX, running at 20 Mhz.

It had 30 megs of disk set aside (65 meg disk total) for Linux. It had 4 megs of RAM.

The modem was 2400 baud. I had a serial mouse, hooked up to a 9 pin serial port. The monitor could do 640x480, and my video card was VGA only.

But it ran Linux, and it was glorious!

Re:Uptime?

[Anguo]

The longest running servers are not Linux but FreeBSD on Apache...

Linux was still in its infancy back then (being just a teen now), so a linux server running for ten years on ten years old hardware wouldn't give much benefit...

Re:Uptime?

[isorox]

I've done 100+ days even on crappy hardware - stuff where you get a data loss writing to the HDD so have to keep it mounted read only. Stuff where the CPU fan runs at 60dB, and the whole machine vibrates. I still ran it as a firewall for months on end though, only to have a brownout and have it reboot

Re:Uptime?

[mabhatter654]

Shhhhh! don't tell microsoft. That would add to the FUD! I can see it now: FIRST LINUX IN SPACE ON CRASHED SHUTTLE!

That would kill it in a clock cyle!

Re:Uptime?

[Daniel_Staal]

Now, *thats* impressive domination. Every server on that list is running either BSD/OS or FreeBSD, mostly BSD. All but three are running some version of Apache (and those three are application servers, not http servers).

Next time someone tries to tell you closed source is more stable, point them at that. Sure there are plenty of arguments against it running a server that long, but...

Re:Uptime?

[I Like Swords!!!]

What's the address? Let's slashdot it. ^_^

Re:Uptime?

[0racle]

104 days

IBM PS/2 486/33 with 32mb ram.

Had to reboot it because i forgot to build in quotas and well I need them now. Sucks too.

Re:Uptime?

[mrjohnson]

[root@sunrise root]# w
19:35:49 up 373 days, 5:08, 1 user, load average: 0.23, 0.23, 0.18
USER TTY LOGIN@ IDLE JCPU PCPU WHAT
root pts/1 19:35 0.00s 0.04s 0.02s w

Well, now you can't say that. :-)

This is an Oracle server, normally quite busy during the day (it's now the weekend). But I agree with you -- we'll be moving this server and most of the other ones into a new facility, hopefully by the end of the year.

The highest I've seen was an AIX box that was taken out by a faulty UPS. That was over two years of uptime. Some of us nearly cried. :-)

Re:Uptime?

[riffer]

Not going to start a pissing contest for the trolls and be specific, but I've seen numerous machines that exceed that number, by a lot.

10:26PM up 659 days, 19:36, 1 user, load averages: 0.00, 0.00, 0.00

No, I am not making that up.

Oh, and it's a firewall system...

FreeBSD [censored] 4.3-RC2 FreeBSD 4.3-RC2 #6: Fri Apr 6 19:17:04 EDT 2001

Frequently and routinely shutting machines down allows one to deal with these failures much more smoothly.

I disagree with the "frequently" bit. Nothing wrong with uptimes of 1-3 months. But I'll agree that a routine of system reboots is a good idea, especially if it's part of an established maintenance scheduled...

Re:Uptime?

[John Marter]

Next time someone tries to tell you closed source is more stable, point them at that. Sure there are plenty of arguments against it running a server that long, but...

But be prepared to back-pedal when they point out that many systems can't make the list because they do not report uptime. Also other systems, (Linux, for example) cannot make it to the top of the list because they roll over their uptime counter at 497 days.

Nevertheless, there are some competitors left and the BSD's have completely dominated them.

Re:Uptime?

[mla_anderson]

Next month one of my machines will hit 500 days of uptime. Mind you this is a FreeBSD machine not Linux. The last time it went down was when the office was having power problems and we were told they weren't sure when power would be back on.

I had another FreeBSD firewall that continued to filter packets after the hard drive stopped spinning.

Re:Uptime?

[satch89450]

For me, the uptime on my servers tell me how long it has been since the power company shut off the power for non-payment, or the last time some semi took out the main power feeder here in the mountains. My UPS is good for five hours, so minor outages (and four hours IS considered minor in the Sierras) don't cause things to roll back to zero.

Re:Uptime?

[Yonder Way]

The highest uptime I've ever seen was about 101 days

Here is a shell server that is pretty well used by the members of TriLUG that will show you 101 days is easy.

[chrish@moya chrish]$ uptime
12:55am up 113 days, 5:57, 36 users, load average: 0.02, 0.30, 0.32

I've seen plenty of Linux systems approaching and a few exceeding 1 yr of uptime but by then it's time for a distro upgrade.

Re:Uptime?

[hta]

The largest uptime ever recorded at the counter was a little more than a thousand days - this was Linux 2.0 running on an Alpha.

It has apparently been turned off now.

Re:Uptime?

[RevMike]

What were you using ten years ago? Frankly, I don't even remember what I used. I'll guess rather blindly and say a 66 MHz 486 was cutting-edge ten years ago.

For what it is worth, I was running minix in the fall of 1991. I remember Linus posting about his new project. I also remember how some of the Minix adherents were annoyed Linux oriented posting took more and more of the bandwidth of comp.os.minix. comp.os.linux was created in the Spring of '92.

At that point I was running a 386DX-33 and it was a decent machine, not bleeding edge but toward the front of the pack. Two years later, a 486DX-66 sounds about right.

Re:Uptime?

[jidar]

Well, I know you were going by mhz alone, but todays cpus are more than just 25 times faster, in fact going by mores law it should be ~2^6 faster or ~65 times the speed.

Also, I've seen in excess of 100 days on tons of linux boxes. Longest I've personally had in production was 256 days then a tornado hit and took out the power. Considering I keep seeing triple digit uptimes without trying Im sure everybody is gettnig them all the time.

Re:Uptime?

[irc.goatse.cx troll]

"I've seen plenty of Linux systems approaching and a few exceeding 1 yr of uptime but by then it's time for a distro upgrade."

apt-get dist-upgrade doesnt require a reboot.

Re:Uptime?

[junkgoof]

A lot of places will reboot servers with long uptime during maintenance windows just to check. I worked in a large environment where we would reboot systems that were over 100 days on principle. No hardware failures resulted (Sun, HP, and linux systems), but occasional software/rc issues came up. Most of the systems would consistently make it to 100 days. We had some hardware and software issues or upgrades, but most of the systems, especially old, overused, systems that we did not do software upgrades on would make it consistently. No uptimes over 120 days, but some systems went 6 consecutive reboots without issues. On the other hand there was a power failure that ran down the UPS at some point.

Re:Uptime?

[avdp]

I would think it would if the kernel is upgraded...

Re:Uptime?

[Yonder Way]

It *is* actually doing something. At any given time there are a few dozen people logged in running CLI tools. CLI tools do not tend to suck up machine resources like Gnome or KDE.

There were ~36 ssh connections going at that time, plus a couple of dozen irssi sessions. The same machine also handles all email and web traffic for a number of Triangle-area tech groups.

Also, it's not like the hardware is a Sparc 5 or anything. It's a pretty nice piece of server class iron, and it is pretty well tuned.

Welcome, young Patawan learner, to the true beauty of UNIX/Linux in its classic form.

Re:Uptime?

[Bloxyman]

I did 250+ days on my debian server, but power outage took it out, since i have no ups.

Re:Uptime?

[CentrX]

You don't have to upgrade the kernel if you upgrade the distribution, and even if you did you wouldn't be required to reboot. All the software packages are upgraded in place while the system is running. A kernel upgrade isn't necessarily part of the distribution upgrade process.

Re:Uptime?

[operagost]

There's no way any power company has gone more than one year without an outage in at least one region.

Re:Uptime?

[dasmegabyte]

101 days isn't that much, either. I get that routinely on 2k boxes.

I think my linux record is 158; again, took down due to a kernel recompilation.

Re:Uptime?

[zeroparity]

OK, I can't find a link but I once heard of a VAX running VMS that ran for 13 years without a reboot. I think it was controlling traffic signals - now that is a real computer :-)

Re:Uptime?

[mAriuZ]

yah but wasn't connected to interweb

Re:Uptime?

[zcat_NZ]

You think a firewall would have helped?

Re:Uptime?

[avdp]

a kernel upgrade would require a reboot if you want the new kernel to be the one running the machine. Upgrading the kernel and not rebooting is pointless.

Aside as not upgrading the kernel when upgrading the distribution, I am sure you can. But you know, even the kernel has the occasional bug or security patch...

Re:Uptime?

[fred666]

My linux box at home (Belzebuth) had an uptime of 200 days.
I took it down just to install an UPS.

Before that time, i had power outages due to the ceiling light (light bulb goes short: *BLAM*)

The box is pretty busy: doing webserver, FTP, Wifi router, Mail, SMB, mp3/Ogg jukebox, DNS and ssh.

Never ever had a problem...

Re:Uptime?

[Cramer]

Under Linux on x86 (HZ=100), the uptime counter rolls over just beyond 497 days. I know of a (linux) machine that's been running just as long. Sitting on the same shelf as that firewall, in fact. :-) (Last restart was in April 2001 when it was moved to the co-lo area at the CO.)

Don't waste your time complaining about a "3 year old kernel" -- if it's been working for 3 years, leave it the f*** alone.)

Re:Uptime?

[Michael Hunt]

Crappy UPS.
Sun Sparcstation 4/110.

[sid@scarifier] ~$ uptime
12:19PM up 307 days, 14:34, 1 user, load averages: 0.18, 0.15, 0.10

This is far from the most impressive uptime I have seen.

Speaking of slashdot...

[billybob]

The site's been slashdotted!! :)

Is that an event or what?

Re:Speaking of slashdot...

[TheViffer]

Must be running Windows 2000 .....

Re:Grumpy old man mode.

[Anonymous Coward]

These people are Linux users. You think they would purposely make something easy?

Slashdotted Already!

[Prien715]

"...the Slashdot events are some of the more memorable."

Hey guys, remember the time the site was Slashdotted with one comment? I suppose they didn't learn from their last slashdot event.

Is the site slow for anyone else?

Re:Slashdotted Already!

[caluml]

This image shows a well-configured (but underpowered) machine's response to slashdot:

Valiant shouldering of the load
Trouble from an unexpected source
Slow return to normality
In the first minute after the article went up, people arrived.

Soon, the 16 available processes were all busy running my too-heavy Perl scripts, and the new clients were sending SYN packets and waiting. And they kept on doing it.

In fact, so many were doing this that the kernel wondered if there were SYN flood attacks going on. Go figure...

Shortly after midnight, the /var partition, where the HTTP logfiles go, filled up. Apparently something else required access to that partition too - at least registrations weren't successful either.
Luckily, I was online at the time, deleted a couple of files, and watched the counter come back to normal.
After that, it was plain sailing.

16 available processes? :) Need to upgrade that box, and 256kbit line, methinks!

#1 Imposters.

[Anonymous Coward]

" It's still waiting for Linus Torvalds to claim registration #1, which has been reserved for him for the last ten years. "

Oh damn! Now there's going to be a rush of Linus imposters trying to get it.

Re:#1 Imposters.

[ahaning]

'ello. I am Giselle, 'ze French Bitch [wha-tshh!]

Why?

[darkpurpleblob]

So why hasn't Linus registered? Anyone know?

Re:Why?

[Anonymous Coward]

Maybe he's using FreeBSD now...

Re:Why?

[spektr]

So why hasn't Linus registered? Anyone know?

Do you want to register:

( ) online, now
( ) remind me in one week
( ) never
(*) Man, I wrote the damn thing!

[OK] [Cancel]

Re:Why?

[AndroidCat]

Well... If he did register, SCO would probably send him an invoice for his copy.

Re:Why?

[geekoid]

he uses windows.

I joke.

Re:Why?

[dacarr]

Because the site's been slashdotted and we STILL can't get on, you insensitive clods!

Re:Why?

[rock_climbing_guy]

Thanks. I believe that I have the solution.

/me clears throat.

You have up to thirty days to activate Linux. After thirty days, you must activate Linux to continue using it.
Do you want to register:

( ) online, now
( ) remind me in one week
( ) never
(*) Man, I wrote the damn thing!

Thank you very much, MS. I HATE your stupid activation scheme. Please quit treating me like a criminal.

Re:Why?

[McDutchie]

Do you want to register:

( ) online, now
( ) remind me in one week
( ) never
(*) Man, I wrote the damn thing!</I>

(*) No he didn't! _I_ did! -- Darl

[OK] [Cancel]

Re:Why?

[JamesP]

I guess we could have a Linux Version fo that nice program Remind Me that stays in the Startup menu and gets installed every time you add another program...

Re:Why?

[dasmegabyte]

Maybe because Linux Counter is dumb and useless?

I mean, think about it. 130,000 registered names. What TINY percentage of ACTUAL LINUX USERS do you suppose that is? 10%? 1%? .1%? I know that I've never registered any of my machines.

What good is a COUNTER that has no bearing on reality? It'd be like performing a census by asking all the people in one small state to phone in -- and then just going with that number. It'd be more accurate to get download logs from ibiblio.org and kernel.org and redhat.com, etc.

So as to why Linus hasn't registered...I'd say because he has better things to do than waste his time on useless geek publicity.

Re:Why?

[bluGill]

Its an engineering issue. I drive over bridges because I know almost nothing about hot they are built. All the bridge engineers I know refuse to cross bridges that they design (they either fly, or drive around to a bridge they didn't design). Airplane designers often refuse to fly in their airplane.

Not that their designes are not safe enough, but as an engineer you know all the compromises, and they keep you up at night. I personally avoid software I've made, and I've been up all night worrying about what happens when a customer tries something other than the obviousy no error code paths.

In other words, Linus still runs minux on his important systems, while he waits for Linux to mature enough to be trustworthy. (I'd suggest a BSD, but IIRC linus has committed code to them from time to time). This however might be giving it too much credit. He now knows how CPUs are desigend from working at Transmeta. I wouldn't be surprized if he does everything with pencil and paper!

Well, the Linux Counter guys -did-...

[SuperBanana]

I wonder if any Linux computers have 10 years of uptime?!?

The 'linux counter' guys did. Until this evening. I wonder WHO could POSSIBLY be responsible for THAT.

Insert obligatory sla... oh, nevermind, already did that.

The important parts:

[caferace]

Part I:

Lessons learned

* Slashdotting is good for you.
The counter is now defensively configured, and is able to do something intelligent even under heavy load.
* A 32-Mbyte Pentium can't fill a 256-Kbit link using Perl.
I'm sure management is happy to know that.
* The adrenaline kick of a slashdotting feels real good!
But it does eat time...I spent 4 hours Tuesday night getting the box reconfigured and back on its feet, and then just watching it. Late.
* On Wednesday, 1412 people registered with the counter.

Part II:

Lessons learned

* Slashdotting is still good for you, as an exercise in work under fire.
The counter's configuration has proved that it stays up and running (as long as there is disk space around).
* A well-handled Slashdot load lasts longer and has more people in it than the load left after the server's been down for a while.
* The adrenaline kick of a slashdotting still feels real good!
* On the 25th and 26th together, 2670 people registered with the counter.

Richard Stallman is probably pretty angry

[DarkHazard]

It's GNU/Linux Counter damnit!

Comment removed

[account_deleted]

Comment removed based on user account deletion

In SCO's view,

[overbyj]

the Linux Counter is a who's who list of those that owe $699.

Re:In SCO's view,

[Bastian]

And Darl is already planning on suing to have his name put in the number 1 position.

Terrible Counter.

[wo1verin3]

>> currently lists more than 130.000 names.

I think this whole counter thing really has no point anymore. Linux has reached the point where it is almost a household name and the actual count on this counter is way off. I would imagine there are well more then 130.000 people that use linux. According to this paper there are between 600.000 and 2.000.000 Linux users. Numerous other articles are available with similar numbers if you care to check Google.

Re:Terrible Counter.

[troutsoup]

i think its a fun idea. unfortunately i signed up under an email address that is now defunct and cannot update my info. i tried sending an email to them to get it sorted but no reply, maybe i'll hit them up again and see about it after the slashdotting subsides ;-)

Partial Mirror (due to third slashdotting)

[waynemcdougall]

0. SCO
1. {Reserved}
2. [Please reply to fill in the blanks]
.
.
.
139325. waynemcdougall

Any one else notice....

[jmors]

There are approximately 14,000 more users than machines as I looked at the counter several moments ago. So, my question is, are the other 14,000 users running linux on THEMSELVES perhaps? Linux powered humans, now that would be an awesome force to be reconned with! :)

Re:Any one else notice....

[egburr]

Linux is a *multiuser* operating system. One machine could handle tens or even hundreds or users. You're fussing that the number of users registered exceeds the number of machines registered. You should be fussing that the number of users is so low as to almost equal the number of machines. How many of these machines are effectively just single-user machines?

Re:Any one else notice....

[jmors]

Actually, you are quite correct, however for many of us who run Linux the ratio is more machines than users. Personally I have three linux machines at the house and a laptop I use for both work and pleasure as well as an unofficial Linux cluster under a co worker's desk at work that gives us better development server space than the company I work for officially provides! Thank goodness for Linux.

I write server side J2EE java and the lunux cluster I have outperforms the area I have been officially given on a Solaris server in the server room (this is not the fault of Solaris as I am using only a portion of this machine). If not for my Linux cluster my software would be months behind.

Anyhow, having been one of the first on the Linux list many years ago, it is incredable to me to see the numbers there still so low.

Re:Any one else notice....

[pe1chl]

Linux is a multi-user operating system.

Re:Any one else notice....

[eap]

There are approximately 14,000 more users than machines as I looked at the counter several moments ago.

This is my fault. I am running 13,999 virtual linux processes on an IBM S/390.

I also have an old copy of Slackware running on a 386SX-25, which I'm thinking about upgrading with a math coprocessor.

Re:130 names? Exactly?

[mrmike37]

Other countries use period instead of a comma to deliminate thousands. It means 130,000.

Re:130 names? Exactly?

[syrinx]

Other countries use period instead of a comma to deliminate thousands. It means 130,000.

That whoosing noise is the joke flying over your head.

Re:130 names? Exactly?

[mrmike37]

Sorry, not funny to me.

slashdotted

[toadf00t]

There's nothing like a good slashdotting to mark their 10 year anniversary :-)

Counter starts at 2?

[WeeLad]

It's still waiting for Linus Torvalds to claim registration #1, which has been reserved for him for the last ten years.

So it's a counter that starts at an arbitrary number other than one? I had enough trouble indexing my arrays from 0. This is gonna cause all sorts of different "off by one" errors. Can I start my own counter at 50.000 and claim the first 50.000 are reserved?

Re:Counter starts at 2?

[mla_anderson]

Most SQL indexes start at 1.

Yes you can.

Something tells me this time will be worse

[joejoejoejoe]

THe site is barely loading, and I tend to think the readership of /. is much larger than it ever was before.

I look forward to the review of this particular slashdotting.

I also cannot believe the site is run on such a cheesy box. I have at least a couple of junked (but workable) old computers that I am actually considering giving away, and they are all better than a pentium-90 with 48 or whatever MB of RAM.

People in the U.S. (by me atleast) upgrade their pcs so often that they throw out perfectly good pcs just because they upgraded.

I have gotten 2 working pcs from the dumpster outside my apt complex in Maryland. One was a p-166 and the other a p-200, I think one is a dell the other a hp. They are crappy by todays standards on all measures but for something simple like a few webpages, etc, they would so rock.

If they (the site in the article) contact me and pay shipping, i'll give one away.

-Joejoejoejoe

Re:Something tells me this time will be worse

[Darth_brooks]

RTFA

the site started on a P-90. It's now running on a couple of boxes.

Some things never change

[Eese]

Speaking of Slashdot events, the site is timing out for me.

numbering order

[mezron]

How do the numbers work? My number is 193708 but there are 130,000 users? I got my number in June of '99.

Re:numbering order

[mezron]

whoops... started using Linux in June '99. Registered Nov 2000

Re:Welcome to GNU GVideo GProfessor!

[mabhatter654]

Frick'n AC...that was a cute idea! Just add Knoppix to the box for a complete experience. It's only a matter of time!

http://slashdot.org/comments.pl

[mabhatter654]

yeah, who'd want to use perl for a hi-volume site..That's gotta Sux man! Must slow to a crawl all the time. Good thing /. doesn't use perl.

I don't think the problem is using perl.

consipracy.

[egarrido16]

It's still waiting for Linus Torvalds to claim registration #1

Maybe Linus is a closet Windows user! Could it be?

Re:consipracy.

[JDWTopGuy]

Or maybe he just doesn't want people to know he uses Linux!

BSD Counter?

[mgirouard]

Anyone know of a *BSD counter?

Re:BSD Counter?

[gellenburg]

You have obviously never stood in line at the DMV.

Fact: Trolls who keep pontificating that *BSD is dying are as useful as an MSIE Security Patch.

Why fewer machines than users?

[KrispyKringle]

Why are there fewer Linux machines than Linux users (at a ratio of .898)? I can imagine there are a small number of Linux families--multiple people to a single computer--but I would guess this is far offset by the number of Linux users with multiple machines (which seems to be the norm among more computer-savvy folks; I know I actively use two Linux machines and an OpenBSD box and own a couple more older Linux machines that I've taken out of service). Could it be that many people consider themselves to be, spiritually, Linux users but do not actually own a Linux machine?

On a bit of a tangent, that is the sort of attitude that is a little annoying about the Linux community. Ideological choices about your OS make little sense, even less so for those who are so caught up in the ideology that they know little about the technical specifics. I use Linux in situations where it suits my needs--as a desktop mainly; I prefer other OSes for servers--but if another OS came along that suited my application better, I would have little hesitation in switching.

Re:Why fewer machines than users?

[damiam]

I can imagine there are a small number of Linux families--multiple people to a single computer

Family boxes aren't the only multiuser Linux machines. I imagine there are quite a few Linux servers with hundreds or thousands of users each. That would more than make up for the discrepancy.

Re:Why fewer machines than users?

[KrispyKringle]

Sure there are, but people with Windows desktops who's mail servers run Linux aren't all that likely to register here. And there really aren't that many heavy-duty shell servers out there with a clientel more sophisticated than annoying IRC trolls, wannabe script-kiddies, and other undesirables who probably also wouldn't be bothered to register at the Linux Counter.

Google Cache:

[Lord of haha]

Main Page: http://216.239.41.104/search?q=cache:HKiJVA4VELMJ: counter.li.org/+Linux+Counter:+Home+Page&hl=en&ie= UTF-8 Ten Year Counter: http://216.239.41.104/search?q=cache:usZ1-hcS8fkJ: counter.li.org/news/ten-years-counting.php+Linux+C ounter:+Ten+Years+of+the+Linux+Counter&hl=en&ie=UT F-8 Slashdot events: http://www.google.ca/search?q=cache:cdmRuYkqn-EJ:c ounter.li.org/slashdot/+Linux+Counter:+Linux+Count er+Slashdot+Experience&hl=en&ie=UTF-8

Re:Google Cache:

[Prinz Madde]

tinyurl.com comes to mind when trying to post these URLs...

10 years of linux after 10 minutes on slashdot....

[R_V_Winkle]

Looks bad but I am suspecting microSCOft is dos'ing the site as i type this.

Googles cache from yesterday

http://216.239.41.104/search?q=cache:HKiJVA4VELMJ: counter.li.org/+&hl=en&ie=UTF-8

ten year old hardware lovin/next cube for sale :)

[kraksmoka]

i have a ten year old next cube that is ten years old (and coincidentally ready to hit ebay, i am taking private offers). it was THE SHIT OF THE SHIT BACK THEN and would have sold retail for $10,000 and up. it has a motorola 25 Mhz PPC chip, 16 MB ram, 2 Gig storage (1.3 and boot on 660 mb), onboard sound, video, dual ethernet, all the goodies. is the basis of gnustep and OS X with tru post script display.

just a typical Tim Berners Lee machina. i could run debian on it today, or net bsd i suppose. if i had the time. right now, its a wonderful paperweight. coming in at 100 lbs. (of magnesium, fire-resistant casing) its sure to keep your stacks of paper from floating off!

i got this machine from a former employee of apple in iowa (who i think was slightly queer, he reset the root password to penis) for 400 bucks 4 years ago. i have all the books and disks, cds and everything for it.

to answer the post, it was the cutting edge, onboard everything! so far ahead of its time, that everything we're using today to make this post was already there, just about, or born there. it created the matrix. a 12" by 12" square motherboard in a case with space for 4 of them, so you can buy another board and it will netboot and cluster off the first board. nearly impossible to crash. i first used one in 1995 and did music on it, back then it was just on par with the P133 we had next to it. in fact, the 133 ran openstep outrageously fast (for back then), but it is still useable, i have scattered links about the fun science project it could become (if i ever had time). if i can't find a buyer, i have been talking about creating a sculpture out of the parts i don't want (don't have time for this either). in other words, the keyboard is the only part i can use legacy without the rest, ADB --------->USB (which i don't have time to buy), its got the best ever clack!

ahhh, your first *nix box, nothin like it!

We can only hope . . .

[Idou]

I signed the online petition that asked SCO to please sue me . . . no response yet.

I guess if even the RIAA and MPAA are having trouble using lawsuits to control BLATANT copyright violations, SCO doesn't have much of a chance in hell suing users on completely baseless grounds.

You know, SCO could have really helped their compaign if they had just released a bit of actually infringing code (not all of it, just a taste so that we all would know they aren't full of BS) . . . the fact that they haven't yet, when it is in their best interest, is either a sign of complete incompetence or the nonexistence of such code.

Re:We can only hope . . .

[phre4k]

You know, SCO could have really helped their compaign if they had just released a bit of actually infringing code

Actually they did. It just came to show that it wasn't their code and that it isn't in linux any longer.

It's a pain . . .

[Idou]

I have owned perhaps 10 to 20 Linux machines. Most have gone to friends and family (which I did not bother to register), some just died (my cat crawled into one while it was running . . . stupid cat/owner).

Only zealots (like myself) take the time to register, that is why the number is so low. It is safe to say that for every zealot, 5 to 10 machines have been installed with Linux. However, few of us are willing to register EACH and EVERY machine we installed on. Maybe if they started giving us karma per machine installed . . .

Re:It's a pain . . .

[Blackneto]

I've installed around 30 linux boxes for customers to do various things over the past 8 years. Never registered any of them.

In Fact a customer who I had from a previous company tracked me down because the linux firewall/dialup server they had running on a 486/66 lost the HDD and they wanted to know "what now?"
Unfortunately I couldn't help them because i'm 100 mi away these days and my time is filled with other projects. But I gave them some suggestions.

Wow.

[AyeRoxor!]

"currently lists more than 130.000 names. "

It's not often you see 3 significant figures when counting individuals...

And anyhow, if only 130 people have registered with the site, I don't think it's quite accurate...

Re:Wow.

[TA]

"." as decimal indicator is an americanism.
Lots of other places use "," instead.

Don't trust the list.

[NCatron]

Considering I am listed on the linux counter and have not used linux for about 5-6 years now, I wouldn't put much faith in this list. To be honest, I don't even remember how my name got here, as I used an old distro of Slackware for about 2 weeks and was not exactly happy with it.

Re:Don't trust the list.

[kasperd]

Considering I am listed on the linux counter and have not used linux for about 5-6 years now

If you are still on that list, you must have renewed your registration at least twice in the last few years. Why did you do that, when you had not been using Linux for more than three years?

Um...

[Timothy Brownawell]

...If spot #1 at the counter hasn't been claimed yet, after ten years, why do they think it ever will? What's the point of still holding it open?

Tim

Re:ten year old hardware lovin/next cube for sale

[SpaceLifeForm]

i have a ten year old next cube [serverfestival.net] that is ten years old

How old again?

I heard different...

[MarcQuadra]

Really, I heard he was using a SCO UNIX box, sharing it with an auto parts manufacturer's billing system.

Shows what I know.

Re:10 years of linux after 10 minutes on slashdot.

[SpaceLifeForm]

Apparently that link is now slashdotted.

Re:ten year old hardware lovin/next cube for sale

[LnxAddct]

The only people who would buy this would be collectors, so instead of profitting off of this and making like $50-$75 bucks, why don't you donate it to a museum of some sort. I know I've seen various articles on slashdot about computer museums trying to collect as much equipment as they can. If your upset about the loss of money, maybe you could write it off on your taxes to get some benefit out of it.

Re:Richard Stallman is probably pretty angry...

[farquharsoncraig]

and what they don't tell you is that they are waiting for Richard Stallman to register as number 0.

Re:ten year old hardware lovin/next cube for sale

[kraksmoka]

beg your pardon, that's 15 year old hardware. it says copyright 1988 on the back

Re:ten year old hardware lovin/next cube for sale

[kraksmoka]

would love to, but i spent the money to buy it, care for it, and lug it everywhere with me for four years now. if they can't pay in what i paid for it, i'll keep it and make it into interesting art one day, or do something myself.

it's not like i'm a republican out for blood money. it is a great little piece of history and i have preserved it lovingly. all i want is enough to get some other toy, like a shuttle PC to run my freevo, or something else nifty that i will get more use out of these days. . . . . its just a science project waiting to happen . . .. .

Thanks for the traffic!

[hta]

the linux counter was "slightly" misconfigured in how many apache servers it allowed to run simultaneously - it went into trashing.
I've re-tuned it (to MaxClients = 32, and KeepAliveTimeout = 2), and it seems to work slightly better.
You can still expect it to be SLOW, though.....
(anyone got a gig of RAM for a Dec Alpha lying around...? stock price for that is more than a new PC....)

Abderian laughter

[AllenChristopher]

You know what's funny? You've got a couple hundred of us, the less-than-modest, indulging in a slightly superior snicker at what we think is a typo. It turns out the joke is on us. The pedant is the fool.

That's funny. Beautiful situational irony.

You could look at the FAQ...

[anno1602]

... but I, being a karma whore, will spell it out for you: The LiCo asssigns a unique ID to a registrated user. The registration, however, is only counted in the statistics if the user has logged in during the past year. Hence, to keep being counted, you have to periodically revalidate your registration by logging in or by using a script. This is to weed out inactive users who didn't bother to unregister at LiCo.

Breaking news - Linux counter dead at 10

[updog]

(Reuters, 1 hour ago)

The Counter that has served the Linux community so faithfully over the past decade has met with a greusome fatal homicide today. The Counter, which has Counted over 130,000 of the Linux faithful, has been terminated by the very people it had been Counting over the past decade. These "Slashdotters", as they have been called, dealth the fatal blow to the counter shortly after a link was posted describing the counters 10th birthday.

The "Slashdotter" gang are currently being investigated for gang related crimes, including aggresive force against a Mr. Goaste and various other sites, including those containing Linux material and pictures of Natlie Portman.

Services for the Counter will be held Monday, in Salt Lake City, Utah.

Re:130 names? Exactly?

[Trejkaz]

The post looked like English to me. :-)

REALLY?

[anethema]

Allllright! 130 names! ;)

Re:130 names? Exactly?

[kasperd]

Other countries use period instead of a comma to deliminate thousands. It means 130,000.

Where I live we use dots as delimiter between thousands and a comma to indicate decimals. So we write numbers like: 1.057.612,75

great -- just what we need

[Eric MB Lard MD]

Thanks guys, we've been looking for a nice long list of linux users to sue. This is just what we needed. Must get on to my stock broker to let him know we are about to announce 130,000 invoices being sent out. Darl McLied

SCO is in this I tell you!

[rock_climbing_guy]

It's the Slashdot Counter Outage.

Re:Grumpy old man mode.

[plague3106]

The problem with email addresses is that they can change...i had to remember what email address i had at the time that i signed up. But i do agree that you should be able to choose a password. Fortunatly, i still had the email, but just barely.

I want to see

[Paleomacus]

slashdot slashdot slashdot.

distributed linux counter ?

[mAriuZ]

I think it needs some more servers distributed over
areas
Maybe this way they could keep the site up if
there is another slash a dot dos atack ...

The count above is wronng

[srpatterson]

The count quoted above is at least 20K out, I'm number 142831

Re:The count above is wronng

[Wolfrider]

Yah, the Linux Counter fell quite a bit in my estimation when they went thru a reorg a couple of years ago and *lost* my # (108844.) Who needs them anyway, I still have the .gif on my tripod site.

Hee hee. Metamucil.

[SnappingTurtle]

Self-styled intellectuals are so much fun to poke fun at. Of course I knew about the European dot vs comma thing... doesn't he realize people on /. are, um, usually pretty knowledgable??? (There, now you can poke fun at me.)

130.000 people ??

[nomadianomad]

I feel sorry for that first 0.001 person. The weight must be unbearable.

Uptime slaves and deliberate downtime

[xixax]

And as nice as it is to shut down individual services, somethimes it's easier to just reboot than muck around figuring out what to stop/start. Besides, how do you account for complexity? My firewall routinely gets XXX days, but then it doesn't even do much disk IO once it boots. Compare that with something like a heavily used RDBMs that hammers disk.

I guarded uptime for a while, but then it got in the way of getting stuff done quickly, and some moron electrician always screwed it up anyway.

Frequently and routinely shutting machines down allows one to deal with these failures much more smoothly.

Or in other words, rebooting individual servers inside work (and hardware support contract) hours means that you can conveniently replace one dead disk at a civilised hour, rather than trying to find several disks at 2 Am on a Saturday night after weekend electrical work accidentally shuts power to the entire machine room.

Xix.