Slashdot Mirror
Traffic Light Control For The Masses
uniformed1 writes "Eliminating red lights along the routes of their vehicles can give
emergency response teams the few extra critical minutes that can save
lives and property. A front page article
in today's Detroit News details
the emerging problem with a device that is now being made available to
the public -- a traffic light changer. Originally intended only
for emergency vehicles, the $300 MIRT (mobile infrared transmitter)
emits an infrared beam that signals traffic signals to turn green and
gives the vehicle the right-of-way. It is only a matter of time
before self-centered drivers start using the devices widely to skirt
traffic congestion, which is creating fears that chaos will
ensue." Maybe if everyone had these, it would lead to smarter intersections.
What idiots make these things???
Oh well, what the hell...
www.themirt.com has a lot of info on these devices. Even a dealer list of where to get one. Man, I'm tempted...
-mikey
One thing to do, then, would be to change the behavior of the traffic lights so that on receiving this signal, they go to four-way red. Since emergency vehicles can run red lights, it doesn't stop them, while simultaneously deterring civilians from using them.
(The trouble is the lack of feedback. You'd need some kind of indication that the other ways had gone to red before the ambulance driver will have confidence going through the intersection at full speed)
IR guided Maverick anti tank missiles mounted on traffic light poles. Bet those suckers shut off their IR transmitter then!
Beep beep.
Um, if everyone had one of these, wouldn't that be the same as when noone had these? How would it choose one holder over another? It probably wouldn't.
Why are these devices not illegal? Seems to me that the intersection should take a picture of the vehicle using the device... if there aren't flashing lights, send a ticket in the mail.
Once people know that they will be fined, they will stop using it. If you can't deal with red lights, then don't drive.... it's part of the agreement that we all agree to live by when driving (aka "the law"). These rules are there to make driving safer for everyone.
Sure, but would you if everyone else had one and kept cutting your green light off? Would you be tempted then?
find / -name "*.sig" | xargs rm
The specs have been out on how to build these things for years. Never caught on, maybe because they felt like the whole beige/black/red/blue box phenomenon. MAYBE if they start showing up in places like Best Buy it will catch on, but even still, I doubt it. Besides, I asked some EMTs/the driver one time if the light at the intersections would benefit them by this light predetermination technology. They said no. Doesn't matter because people still run the yellow and red lights so they still have to slow down. And this was for a signal 100 ft. from the station driveway.
I concede that yes, it may help in congested downtown areas like LA or NY, but in 95% of the U.S. they either aren't installed or useful enough to justify their cost.
BTW, it's just a pre-canned, encoded signal on a fixed carrier wave over an infrared signal. Think "really powerful remote control" for you newbies.
Professor Frink: "We studied traffic patterns and found that drivers move the fastest through yellow lights, so now we just have the red and yellow lights, mm-haiai."
Lenny [flooring it]: "Stay yellow! Stay yellow!"
The only time an ambulance driver goes full-speed through an intersection with the siren screaming and cars breaking left and right is in the movies. In real life, they slow down and approach the intersection with all the care appropriate to one who's about to violate the traffic pattern. Because, after all, it doesn't help the dying guy in the back if the ambulance gets in an accident on the way to the ER.
We've had these little devices on the streets of Minneapolis/St. Paul and the surrounding Metro areas for about 7 or so years now.. They're little sensors that (i believe) get activated by the lights on emergency vehicles.
No, not at all. In fact, it would be much worse. The lights are supposed to be timed so a batch of cars can travel through most of the stoplights on a main street without having to stop if everyone is traveling the speed limit. Every car having one of these would mean that the lights would cycle on and off much more quickly meaning you would be stopping at every light in the city.
I think the idea was that mass dueling transmitters might be smarter than weight sensors or cameras. I see this, however, as a perfect case study for the Tragedy of the Commons.
All's true that is mistrusted
Um... if it has a range of 1500 ft., people would activate it at 1500 ft, it would get trumped at 1499 ft, so they'd activate it at 1498 ft... you get the picture. In short, there'd be two people hurdling toward each other, hoping that the light would stay on their side.
#define DRM chmod 000
1. There's an awfull lot of cameras at intersections these days. (and not just red light still cameras either, where I am there's a few vid cams at every major intersection).
2. IR shows up on B&W CCD cameras.
1+2 = just have someone watch vids for cars that have bright IR pulses coming from the dash.
3 ????
4. Profit
--I don't want the world, I just want your half.
Indeed, as one commentator noted, this device was imagined, if not implemented, by the phone phreaks, and was named the "Chrome Box" - just a bit of a tidbit from my misspent youth!
eikimartinson.com
This kind of thing strikes me as the real-world equivalent of exploiting an unsecured software backdoor. You are, in effect, "hacking" the streetlight network. Hmm... sounds like a good book title. ;-) I'm not sure I buy into the "chaos will ensue" hype. There are European cities that use similar devices (though, with different technologies) to allow public transit to get through traffic quickly, to advocate leaving your car at home. But that's where control over lights should lie: with the appropriate authorities.
Why do these lights exist? To solve traffic problems. They do this by effectively "controlling" drivers. If the traffic authorities decide that it is beneficial to give the priority to emergency vehicles and public transit, so be it. I feel that this is beneficial to society. But when drivers force the system to obey their wishes, they are circumventing the apparent benefits of such a system, putting themselves before society. IMHO, this is wrong.
I'm waiting for the first case to go to trial. Think it'll be seen as the equivalent of running a red light, or gaining unauthorized access to a network?
There are sensors on the top of traffic lights in the UK that respond to headlights.
If an ambulance is approaching lights on red he can flash his full beams a few times and the sequence changes.
I use this feature all the time at the lights near my house, especially late at night when the deafult sequence on the lights is to stay green for the main road all the time unless a car approaches on the minor road.
Maybe if everyone had these, it would lead to smarter intersections.
How "smart" would it be to have 28 vehicles and an ambulance all approaching a four-way, urban intersection with these devices fighting to get the green light? It would serve you right to be the heart attack victim in that ambulance as it sat there in gridlock.
If you want to think stupid things, go ahead, but don't encourage your fellow idiots to do something that could kill innocent people.
I've worked for several ambulance companies and spent a good amount of times in cities on the east coast, and I have never seen an ambulance with this device installed.
On top of that, traffic regulations technically require ambulances to stop at red lights and proceed through after the've verified that traffic is stopped. I think the siren would be more effective than a sudden red light.
Maybe I can see a use for turning it green, as it would help get the traffic in front out of the way, give them space to pull over, but for this to work, they'd have to activate it from a distance. Since IR isn't focused like a laser, I doubt it would work from a great distance.
I guess the slashdot editors editors weren't too into the hacking/phreaking scene back in the day. This was documented some 10 years ago.
If you want proof, consult the google time machine. Scroll down or search for "Chrome Box".
Here is some more information with pictures of the Optocom sensors (mounted to the signals) and of EMS and Fire transmission units.
Motorcycles. Generally I cannot trigger a light change to save my life, so I sit there like an idiot waiting for a car to come up behind me and hopefully get close enough to trigger it for me. Especially annoying at intersections where one must wait for a green arrow to turn left. Still though, I do not believe that is enough of a problem to warrant the general public getting these.
The idea of non emergency people having these is insane. And you know it is going to be the H2 driving, cell phone yapping, news paper reading, oblivious to the world around them group that will absolutly HAVE to have these. I mean my god, I have to get to my office to start on today's fancy bookeeping and intern bonking, RIGHT THIS MINUTE! Damn all these plebes and their "right of way" nonsense, can't they see I'm more important?
Damn I'm bitter today.
Finkployd
Ye Gods, NO! It's taken city planners decades to install and tweak centrally controled lights so that traffic flows. Now assholes will come along and make EVERYONE wait when they disrupt a flow that's been synchronized to minimize group time spent. You might as well request additional traffic accidents. People here are polite compared to other places and wait their turn when the lights go out, yet the delay is awful. Things were just starting to work where I lived. Polling systems that simply count cars won't work. It would take enourmous computing power to adjust the flow programs bassed on traffic. That's worth persuing, but boxes that flip the switch should earn the user a heafty ticket. I can just imagine the kinds of nimrods who will use this. Uhg, we have set up a system of privalidge (that's Frech for privat law, Gus) that will be abused. I hate it.
Friends don't help friends install M$ junk.
I assume the old ones where nothing more than an infared flashlight, and the "upgraded" ones use some sort of modulation something like a TV remote. The picture in the article shows what looks like a 3rd brake light with a lighter plug. It probably costs $20. They're basically charging $300-$500 for a long range TV remote control
Needless to say common sense got the better of me and I realised that another line of work was called for. Driving by intimidation "me first" is for assholes not pros. Emergency vehicle drivers need to be given the right of way PERIOD. This law cannot change, otherwise the carnage of today will be nothing compared to what will happen with assholes using this device.
OH THE SHAME I fell off the wagon and use sigs again!
"Maybe if everyone had these, it would lead to smarter intersections."
Maybe if everybody drove the speed limit they'd synchronize with the timers in the traffic lights and not get stopped by a red light to begin with.
(It also provides the enjoyment of sailing past the Honda weed-eaters, the ones that just had to hurry up and beat everybody else to the next red light.)
Should be the penalty for having one of these in your car. Period. Your talking about people DYING here, maybe you or someone you love... Take anyones license for 5 years mandatory if they are caught with one.
It might be easier to change the light by getting out and pressing the walk button on the sidewalk.
Although I lived almost three years in Northern California and disliked the place as a whole, the one thing that did stand out is the outstanding traffic control system with optical and pavement vehicle sensors. The volume of traffic notwithstanding, it was the fairest traffic systems I've ever seen.
For example, if there are left turn lanes on opposing lanes at an intersection, and one of those lanes is empty but the other is full, when the lights turn green the left turn lane for the empty lane stays red and simultaneously turn the signal green for opposing straight-through traffic. Not only that, but the left turn signal would only stay green until the last car had cleared or until a maximum time interval elapsed, at which point it would turn red again and allow opposing straight-through traffic to flow. In fact, if there was no waiting straight-through traffic in the one direction, some lights would just stay green for the lanes that had it until a car attempting to cross the intersection would trigger a timer.
Contrast this with, say, Edmonton, Alberta's dreadful traffic system, where nearly everything is on straight timers save for buses with road sensors and emergency vehicles, and there are no timing lights for freeway on-ramps. There are some sensors at some intersections, but by and large nearly everything is timed and it creates frustration and accidents. It's doubly ironic considering that Edmonton has the highest density of traffic lights in North America and traffic circles on major roadways!
In other words, if you design your traffic system the right way the first time, devices like this become unnecessary. An economist once commented that traffic lights are a nearly perfect unbiased system for resolving conflict. Why create bias in favor of certain selfish individuals? It doesn't work in economies, and it doesn't work on roadways.
It had to happen sooner or later. If they don't already the next versions will just employ strong encryption to foil the morons buying these.
We're going to hear a lot of people calling to make these devices illegal- except in the hands of qualified emergency response personnel. We must resist them. Traffic light control is yet another prime target for deregulation and privatization, and keeping these wonderful devices out of the hands of ordinary citizens restricts our liberty to control intersections that we've paid for with our tax dollars.
Competition and free markets make everything better. They work great for companies, which is a strong indicator that they improve everything else, too- like public schools, the electrical power grid, and traffic lights at intersections. Why should emergency response vehicles receive a government-granted monopoly on the control of traffic lights? This is just old-fashioned, socialist thinking. If I want to turn my light green and yours red, and I'm willing to pay money for the privilege, why shouldn't I get the right of way? I've got more discretionary income, which means my time is probably more important than yours anyway. Government should not be standing on our necks and telling us who can and can't control traffic lights. The "invisible hand" can do a better job of guiding traffic through intersections anyway!
I can hear the socialists whining even now. "But what about the poor ambulance and police cars?" they'll say. They're so addicted to government regulation they don't realize how wonderful things would be if it were every man for himself. Hey, why should the government have a monopoly on ambulance service and law enforcement? My Expedition has plenty of room in the back for a heart attack victim or a criminal. If I'm willing to pay the money I should be able to offer a competing emergency response service as I sail through an endless sea of green lights and yap on my cellphone. To argue otherwise is socialist, and we've learned from the fall of the Soviet Union that socialism doesn't work, people.
OK, so it's a cheap shot at you guys. I can't resist- it's so much fun, and you make it so easy!
I remember first hearing about these things about 5 years ago. Back then you had to build them yourself. They were called "Chrome Boxes" along the lines of all of the other phreakers tools. Just a little history.
------------
Please let me explain a little about our web site and new product launch campaign.
The web site should be very clear that we are looking for "dealers" to sign up and sell our new product. The site explains who the customers are, and the advantages of our new product.
I am an electrical designer by trade, however the main focus of my business has been the sale and manufacture of firearms and accessories, of which we sell to Law Enforcement, Military and others. The idea for the development for this product came about from discussions I have had with our Law enforcement customers. They provided an explanation that many vehicles in there fleet are not equipped with traffic light preemption, because of the cost. The market is now dominated by 3M Corp. and they sell this technology for up to $5,000 per installation. I have applied my design back ground to offer an affordable solution to this problem.
It took over 2 years of development and testing from outside labs to perfect this product. A substantial investment, in the multiple 6 figures has been expended. So now what do we do to "get the word out" we have several challenges. one is that 3M has factory reps all over the country, and we must establish our own rep network to promote our product. How can this be done? My answer to this was to hire 12 advertising executives with a budget of 100K per month to brand our name, to show our product, and to establish a dealer network quickly to provide maximum market coverage. The first phase was national branding, the second phase will be national TV news and talk shows.
We have a unique product and we need to get the word out.
Now, your view of what my company is doing is to sell to the public, please understand that every effort has been made to qualify what this product does, who will benefit from it and to find individuals interested in selling this item. I have chosen to do this in a bold way, which includes internet exposure to people in the trade (i.e. EMS, Law Enforcement, etc) and also to individuals that are interested in a unique business opportunity.
When something gets advertised on the internet it seems it looses credibility, I understand this and am working hard to redesign the site to overcome this problem.
Back to who we sell to and who we do not sell to. We require a legal agreement signed by a dealer, no one else in this industry requires this, after that we qualify the dealer to make sure we want them to represent this product. We go far beyond what is asked of us to qualify the dealer and NO individuals are allowed to buy this product for there own use. You and I both understand that this is not an option. We will not sell to individuals, even though there is no law preventing a company from doing so. We are trying to launch a truly revolutionary product, much different that what has been on the market for over 25 years. I feel great about this product having designed it myself and understand that it is truly a win solution for all involved. I can feel good knowing that my product will save lives, in two ways, one is that it will secure an intersection making it safer(plenty of stats available on this point from Federal ITC division) and two that it will allow first responders to get to where they need to be earlier than without this technology. For example, a heart attack victim has a diminishing chance of survival for every minute lost in response time.
I'm sorry to make this so lengthily, but I feel a strong need to communicate these points to you, and if you would be kind enough provide me feed back as to where I'm going wrong with my presentation, what, in your mind would communicate this better?
To wrap up, my policy is simple, if a dealer or end user uses this device improperly we will pursue immediate legal action, this cannot be allowed and won't be.
Please respond as I would like your input.
[deleted]
I write code.
Here are some of the vehicle traffic laws as they pertain to emergency vehicles here in New York State, other states are mostly similar.
Only police department vehicles are allowed to proceed through red lights without stoping.
EMS and Fire trucks have to make a full stop at every red light while going lights and sirens to a job, regardless of the priority.
In reality, I slow down significantly and roll through at a cool 3-5mph.
Lights and sirens for EMS and fire are a courtsesy. The guy in front of you is in now way obligated to blow a red light for you if he feels it's unsafe for him to proceed. Oh, and btw, if a medic or emt gets on the P.A. and tells you to cross a red light, and you get into and accident, the medic is at fault for the acccident.
Going down one way streets and driving on the opposite side of the road are allowed, with the understanding that you do so at reduced speed and with extreme caution, any accident in this situation is all on your shoulders.
Here in Manhattan, slow and steady is the best way. You can't justify injuring bystanders for someone who is already sick.
And with critical patients in the back, you'll drive even slower to the hospital 'cause there's alot of things that we need to that can't be done if you're bouncing around the back cab like a virgin's first visit to some Panamanian wha wha rumphouse.
These device have been mentioned here in the city, and it was agreed that it would cuase more confusion and possibly more liability for the city than it's worth.
--
First, it didn't always work. Those sensors are positioned to see the pulsing signal from a light on top of a tall vehicle, like an ambulance or fire truck. He had an ordinary car which meant it was a lot lower than it should be. The sensors seem to have a cone-shaped sensitive area which obviously narrows you approach the intersection. So as he got closer to the intersection, where the weaker light might have a chance, he'd usually be outside the sensitive cone shape.
Second, it was hard to tell when it was working. We did get what seemed like an unusually large number of green lights... but it was hard to tell if the "go box" was triggering them, or if we were just getting lucky. In several cases, traffic was also flowing through the intersection the other way which meant it hadn't done anything. Apparantly, the lights turn red in all other directions.
However, we did approach one intersection where there was absolutely no doubt it worked. The light was green, turned yellow, and then turned green again. That absolutely never happens under normal circumstances, and when I saw that I knew it did indeed do something. This interection was approaching the crest of a small hill, and it was complex with five streets (one at a funny angle). As we got closer, the light must have bounced off something else, because the obviously unnatural green light we got turned yellow briefly and then red. I don't know what the drivers saw in the other four directions approaching the interestion, but they must have seen something equally strange, because we sat there for a LONG time as did the cars in coming from the other directions. NOBODY was willing to drive into that interestion, because it was obvious to all the cars that the light was screwed up somehow. That's something that virtually never happens. Traffic lights are incredibly reliable (must not be running Microsoft's products). And when confronted with a screwed up light, nobody was willing to be the first to risk driving into the intersection, even as the controller recovered and started it normal sequence giving green lights. After about 10 minutes, people started to believe a green really was safe and we got to move forward. This was during rush hour on a very busy 4-lane road... so it must have caused quite a bit of traffic backup.
Anyway, my friend's "go box" (as he called it) eventually stopped working. It was home made and it used massive power to turn on those LEDs. They were probably running many times over their rated current. He couldn't turn the switch on too long or it'd blow the fuse to his cigarette lighter. Apparantly he'd replaced the normal fuse with 30 amps which allowed it to run for a minute or so. The wires and everything else about it got really hot. So it's no wonder it stopped working after a while. He talked a few times about building a bigger and better one... but ultimately it was not worth the effort. It couldn't reliably trigger most of the lights. He had many other stories of turning a light green and being stuck behind someone who'd just stopped and wasn't paying attention to the light because it wasn't expected to turn green again for a while. He used to joke "you really also need the lights and siren to make the other cars get out of your way".
Posting anonymously for obvious reasons...
1. Do what the military does, strobe the lights in a morse code fashion. Assign a seperate code to each city vehicle that needs to use the system. Any vehicle not strobing a proper code gets no joy.
2. retrofit traffic light camera's to snap pictures of the traffic when the system is activated. Remove the infrared filter from the camera and the camera will easily and plainly show the vehicle that is attempting to open the intersection. You get a picture of the perp and his license plate, plus the light will be plainly visible to the camera. Perfect evidence for a court case.
If the system is coded and someone attempts to copy the codes then they can prosecute them for hacking into a governemnt computer system.
After all, the traffic lights are computer controlled, they should not be accessible to the public and if you hacked the system via the Internet it would be your nuts on the chopping block.
Perhaps some day I will live in a place that actually times the lights instead of having them be a mess. One local road - if you miss one light, you are stopped at EVERY light for ten miles even if you go the speed limit or a bit under. It's really frustrating to just miss twenty lights in a row and have to wait a few minutes for each. I don't mind going whatever speed is necessary to make all the lights (being a big fan of not stopping even if it means going a bit slow) but in practice almost never have I encountered lights that are well programmed.
In order not to miss a light at the road I mentioned, you must go at least five miles over the limit. Then you make every light, and get to the end of the road about fifteen minutes faster than if you miss any of the early lights. Add that time out over a round trip, and it's definitely worthwhile. Who would not have an extra half hour - especially for a commute where you get 1/2 hour extra every day?
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
That's how I've heard this system operates (at least in Seattle)...strobe light gives "all-stop" at the signal. From where I heard this, it was done deliberately to avoid this type of stunt with the strobe light on civilian vehicles. This is also the safest option too, as emergency vehicles are trained to run red lights (after slowing and checking) and go around stopped vehicles. "All Red" also gives the emergency vehicles the clearance to use the opposing lanes and any other clear space in the intersection etc, coupled with the fact that at any intersection, you ONLY want the emergency vehicles moving...no others.
Any system that creates "green" for the person with the strobe is, in my opinion, an inherently dangerous system. It encourages people to try this kind of stuff and makes people think that the ambulance or fire-engine behind them "won't mind if I go through too". The more moving vehicles there are, even if they're with the flow of the emergency traffic, the more dangerous.
I can't imagine this system staying like it is for too long.
How about tracking the emergency vehicles through GPS, then having the central traffic computers switch the lights around the emergency vehicle (far ahead) in such a way as to clear the path 2 blocks away and keep all opposing traffic off the intended path. For instance, lanes turning away from the path would be allowed to turn green so the vehicles could clear the area, lanes crossing would be halted 1 or 2 blocks away, and lights behind the emergency vehicle would stay red for some reasonable period of time to keep the lawyers a reasonable distance from the ambulances...most people wouldn't even see the emergency vehicles, as they would be sitting at a red light 1 or 2 blocks away, or simply shunted away from the path, and the ambulance/fire-truck driver would not even have to contend with stopped or moving traffic.
This isn't too much to put on one of those little PLC traffic computers, and it would be a lot better than "strobe light gets the green" solution that these people thought up.
Most traffic light sensors these days use a combination of infrared and visible light strobes, as well as encryption, to signal the light to change. These infrared emitters wouldn't do anything . Check out 3m Opticom system for more information.
This will probably been the next gadget added to the Swiss Army PDA/phone combos.
:)
Before long will see those soccer moms with 3 kids in the back of her gas-guzzler pointing her cell phone at the light in between breaths of talking to her friends from the social club.
Life is so unfair.
The traffic light control system itself is called Opticom . It is patented and manufactured by 3M.
It operates using very short pulses of light (< 10uS) occuring at a precise frequency (usually crystal controlled). The normal pulse rate is about 10Hz. An optional rate of around 12.5Hz can be used to give priority to other vehicles (ex. ambulance vs firetruck).
The system is configurable and normally set to give a green light to the emergency vehicle (helping to clear traffic) but it can also be set to go red in all directions.
I've had one for 2 years now... I built it... pic chip some pic asm with the sequences plugged in and $20 dollars worth of pepsi while sitting at on the corner waiting for the ems vehicles to pass by flashing there codes right into my transistors waiting for their juicy juicy codes... juicy codes... but I dye dress.
PROBLEM; Light goes green.
Design the device to make the lights go RED in all directions. Emergency vehicles can safely drive around the waiting traffic on the 'wrong' side of the road, because there's no oncoming traffic. There's no 'subtle' way for a non-emergency vehicle to use this type of device.
455fe10422ca29c4933f95052b792ab2
The devices that are used around here don't turn the upcoming light green for the emergency vehicle. They turn the lights in all directions of the upcoming intersection red. This ensures that the emergency vehicle is the only one with the right to enter the intersection. Makes sense to me...
For a fact... in Los Angeles... the antiquated traffic control systems are not equipped to deal with these devices. I know... I used to install the traffic control systems and these things haven't been upgraded since 1972. And ever notice that every LA car chase has police running red lights behind the perp? Me too.
. SLASHDOT: Home of the vicious nerd.
When I first thought of this, speed detectors were microwave and couldn't discriminate between one or more cars, but now with smart computing and cheap cameras, every set of lights could have speed/positional sensing, decide how many cars were at each direction, and set the green accordingly.
An unfortunate downside would be that any car whose image moved farther than the predetermined distance for the local speed would be automatically photographed and get a speeding fine as well as getting stuck at a red light - but then, speeding in built-up areas where the lights are is bad anyway.
But think of it - every set of lights would have inbuilt speed cameras, inbuilt redlight cameras, and be able to adjust traffic flow precisely for local conditions. Build in a link to a central database and you could preload lights with best strategies based on learned traffic behaviour...
So yeap - it's very Big Brother, but it would save petrol, save engine and brake wear on cars, save driver patience, and save lives too. Worth a thought.
-- ted russ http://www.arach.net.au/~ted/mydynes/ http://www.arach.net.au/~ted/myblogs/
Where I live if you expect people to respect a red light you are mistaken. I am a very cautious driver and here is a reason why: I am sitting next to this impatient dude with a car full of people blaring the radio loud and obviously impatient sitting next to me in the front row in a double left turn lane. The speed limit for the cross traffic is 35. The light turns green. I wait to look off the possible approaches while Mr. Impatient hit the gas rather than look around. Guess what? MI did not see the red light runner that clipped the front bumper off of his car because somebody thought they could make the yellow-red.
My spin is that if you look at the article you will notice that it changes the light immedietly.
Having witnessed such a light change in person I noted it also cuts the yellow down to half a second.
These devices are accidents waiting to happen.
The city I live in is moving away from the pavement-embedded sensors to a system that mounts a low-resolution camera above the light (facing the oncoming traffic). The camera is connected to a vehicle recognition system that can tell if traffic is approaching.
Supposedly, this system is cheaper (repairs don't have to tear up the pavement) and more effective for just the reasons you describe. Also, it solves the problems motorcycles have with being too light to trigger the pavement sensor. The govt. claims the cameras are too low resolution to be used as surveillance.
They didn't say how well the cameras perform in heavy rain, snow or fog, however.
The parts of the CCD elements where the image of headlights focuses in the cameras could be washed out with visible light and won't show the additional IR.
I haven't tried it, but why not?
Putting moderation advice in your
Obviously you have never driven in Louisiana...red light means hurry up.
yesss i'm building one in my basement right now.
gonna bet my gf a bj that there are no red lights on our drive home tomorrow.
wish me luck!
geek gear
Ok let a Medic who has been using these devices for 15 years shed some light on this.
there are a few different types of devices on the market for controling traffic lights.
The idea behind them is to turn the light red in all directions but the one that the emergency vehicle is comming from. this way the vehicle can proccede unimpeaded through the intersection.
Most at first just required a frequency (light or radio)at first. Most if not all now require a 2nd carrier wave with a ID broadcasted. So the sensor recieves the signal, then recieves the ID carrier then changes the light. if the ID carrier is not present it doesn't work. This was done to prevent abuse by emergency vehicles while driving around not on a emergency.
So most people will buy these not read the fine print that a ID carrier must be installed for it to work in some areas then get pissed off at losing their money.
BTW the system i have used is the 3M Opticom (TM) system
The Lunatick, Carpe Corpus!
Emergency vehicles are still required to stop on a Red, then proceed. Stopping at each red light before proceeding shaves off seconds, and in the case of life-threatening injuring those few seconds could be crucial.
I'd say that it should be very, very illegal for normal people to have these devices, perhaps you could give certain traffic lights a camera that snaps the license of whomever flashed it the "green" signal, therefore determining whom is making unauthorized use of the system
Just do a Google search for "chrome box" and toss in some other keywords for good measure like traffic, phreak, hack, etc. Plans for these things as well as the proper timings and patterns for different cities and regions have been available for years. I built one for gits and shiggles over 10 years ago and used to play around with it. The novelty quickly wore off, however, because of the standard Garfield ism of "it's not the having, it's the getting". I used up all of my fun trying to figure out the proper timings and patterns and then actually implementing the box proved to be quite boring.
PepperHacks - Hacking the Pepper Pad
We have a few around here in PA. The ones that change if you "flash to pass randomly" usually have a camera-like thinger near the light itself. And yes, if you're lucky enough, you can sometimes get the right frequency to get it to change.
I suspect they all work this way, and any talk about a device that makes lights green is PURE NONSENSE.
Best Buy can have you arrested
Good point. Sometimes there's a tradeoff between aesthetics and practicality. The HMMV is incredibly cool, and incredibly impractical for anything non-military. The H2 is incredibly pathetic - nothing worse than a phony version of a something cool.
The fact that this was modded down points to a problem with slashdot. I think the offtopic mod should be reserved for material that seriously disrupts the conversation. And likewise, 'troll' should be used for page-widening posts and the like, not for subtle sarcasm. It bothers me that someone took a few minutes to post something coherent and interesting and got modded down so it sinks below tons of 5-second posts saying "lol linux rules omg" or something.
Many of the cities (such as Revere) in the Boston area already have very smart intersections. Drive up to almost any red light here, and the inductive loop detector will notice you're there, and the lights will promptly change (if, of course, there's no line of traffic approaching on a greater right-of-way street... these are truly smart). Some actually don't use inductive loops anymore, because the contacts wear down over time, and are hard to adjust if not installed properly. Instead, they've been using those optical scanners the infrared transmitter works with. However, these scanners don't just pick up infrared - they are smart enough to detect normal vehicles approaching, and adjust the lights accordingly. There's really no reason to cheat. Also... many cities around here don't even USE the infrared transmitters. At least in Revere, the lights are centrally controlled. When a fire truck, for example, is dispatched - its course is entered into the system and the lights change accordingly, clearing traffic IN ADVANCE of the vehicle even reaching the intersections. I noticed this just a few weeks ago, and was in awe at how advanced and dependent on technology we've actually become, and just how cool it is we can save those few lives that might have needed just one or two seconds faster response time.
Anybody know of any Open Source traffic control system? I hear a lot of people complaining about how poorly many of the lights in their city work. Maybe "we" can do better?
Would it be feasible to code such a system as an open source project? I guess I can't think of any reason why not. Just need enough volunteers with the appropriate knowledge.
Then of course you'd have to figure out how you'd get anyone to use it... I suppose the best way (probably the only way) would be to start a company that manufactures the control hardware. Though it likely would be very difficult to break into what is I assume well established market.
Ideas?
Or maybe this is just a stupid idea...
-future
.sig
In Tucson, we have the system, but it doesn't appear to change the lights. All it does is activate strobes to let drivers know they need to perk up and get out of the way. Seems to affect surrounding streets too. I'm not sure precisely how the system works but it's not an all-green, all-the-time system. None the less, our ambulances and fire trucks (cops don't get them) get where they need to go.
Why have lights you can override at all? Why don't the emergency services just jump the lights like they do in the UK?
If I come up to a red light, I'm stopping. If I hear an ambulance behind me, I expect it to jump the lights! The poeple on the green lane hear the ambulance and stop/slow down too.
Works fine over here. Is there something special about US traffic?
"And the meaning of words; when they cease to function; when will it start worrying you?"
Also, it solves the problems motorcycles have with being too light to trigger the pavement sensor.
You may have to explain this one... too light?
The system used here works the same as a metal detector. A wire loop is embedded in the pavement (and it's not that difficult of a process you cut, insert the loop, and tar-seal) and it simply detects metal near the loop (because it changes the resonant frequency of the inductor). I've got two friends that ride motorcycles and they say it has never been a problem for them.
"Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms, and Explosives" should be a convenience store, not a government agency.
"All Red" also gives the emergency vehicles the clearance to use the opposing lanes and any other clear space in the intersection etc, coupled with the fact that at any intersection, you ONLY want the emergency vehicles moving...no others.
Actually, you DO want other vehicles moving. Specifically, the ones in front of the emergency vehicle. There's not always room to pull over or give way within your lane, and giving the vehicles immediately in front of you a red light will... well... stop you too.
I'm not so sure that technique would be very effective against red light/ toll cams. Here is the spec. sheet for Ilfords special purpose traffic surveilance film; it doesn't seem to be particularly sensitive to infrared. Most IR film is sensitive in the 800-900 nanometer range; this film gives up at about 775.
The other thing to think about would be that these surveillance cameras (to photograph red light runners and whatnot) operate with flash and a pretty fast shutter speed. (1/500 or 1/1000th of a second is quick for night use; it must be powerful flash.) There is the chance that since your MIRT is flashing at say, 14Hz, and typical flash tube duration is only 1/1000th of a second or so (which means there is only IR coming out of your MIRT for 14/1000's of any given second), that the surveillance camera has a fair enough change of snapping the picture when the MIRT is not emanating light.
What would probably be effective would be to rig a bright source of visible light near the license plate facing outwards (towards a potential camera) so that it would oversaturate the film in the vicinity of your license plate. Ideally, this could be a slave flash that would be triggered by the surveillance camera's flash, so that it would definitely be firing when the picture was taken.
Either way, we have no red light runner cams or any surveillance cams (other than DOT video, which typically doesn't have the resolution to read plate numbers) in this area. All of this type of surveillance is done by concealed police. So, I have no incentive to test this around here.
Why not have a system where you pay as much as you like to whoever fixes/controls/maintains your local roads. You would have a box on your car that wirelessly beamed your ID number to traffic lights as you came up to them. If you were the only person at the intersection with a box, you would 'win'. If there were two people, then the one with the highest balance would win, if there were three, it would be the combined balances of the two going in one direction etc. And whatever money you donated would be reduced by 1/365 each day.
All the money gathered would be put back into road maintenance/improvement.
Think of a RSA SecurID token. A 6 number sequence that both the token and the authenticator know that changes at preset intervals.
Too late, I just submitted a pantent on that technology. You may continue your research upon purchasing a license.
I believe the technical rules are that if an emergency vehicle driver causes an accident due to driving recklessly - even if on the way to an emergency - they can be prosecuted.
Obviously the court will probably be lenient, since they were doing it for a good reason, but the drivers still need to be aware of the dangers they can pose by not at least slowing down a bit before hitting a red in case somebody is still driving across the intersection.
Originally intended only for emergency vehicles, the $300 MIRT (mobile infrared transmitter) emits an infrared beam that signals traffic signals to turn green and gives the vehicle the right-of-way. It is only a matter of time before self-centered drivers start using the devices widely to skirt traffic congestion, which is creating fears that chaos will ensue.
Computer Support Version:
"Let's give everyone Admin Rights!"
Who's designing this.... Microsoft?
Mod Karma -1: I sed bad wurds. If I cep my mouf shut, I wud be at riyses.
is that you can sometimes make lights with this device change by flashing your high beams. I used to do this all the time with a light that was supposed to change with a weight sensor in the road that didn't work. The light also happened to be right next to the fire company so it had one of the sensors (not all lights in the area had them.) So, I would flash my high beams really quick on and off a couple times when I was about 50 yards from the light and it would change in time for me to go through.
My point being, that if I can do it like that I'm sure that any system that would write tickets for this would have false positives, from just random effects such as sunlight bouncing off of chrome, or a car hitting up bump which throws the headlights up. False positives are one thing that courts have frowned upon in the past, especially in systems that try to write tickets without having a human operator present.
Don't worry, some day maybe you'll be able to afford a gas guzzler and join a social club, too.
Stupid sexy Flanders.
Strangely enough, the USPS (Yes, the mail) is up there with the police, fire and EMS in being able to go thru traffic lights.
I would be very happy to have a device in my car that would tell me (and all those red light running morons) a traffic signal's current status and how much longer until the light changes status. While it wouldn't eliminate the more aggregious violators, it would give the law abiding drivers the needed information to plan their approach.
I've seen several cases where drivers, in heavy traffic congestion, were paying too much attention to the light above them to notice the stopped car in front of them.
I've also noticed lot of insane acceleration on the highways cutting through town when drivers see the green light a mile or so down the road. Many of them go from about 60 (the limit) to about 95 because (due to the road curvature before the light comes into view) they don't know how long the light has been green, and they smash the gas pedal in hopes that they can make it.
Knowing the light's status and timing with certainty from an adequate distance would at least allow more informed insanity (where slowing down or keeping a legal speed would be more likely to place you at the next green light safely -- for yourself and the other drivers).