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Ban On Internet Sales Tax Ends Saturday

donnyspi writes "As reported in the Rocky Mountain News, among other places, the 5 year ban on collecting sales tax on purchases over the internet is scheduled to end Saturday. 'The original moratorium was established in 1998, renewed in 2001 and is set to expire Saturday. The U.S. House of Representatives passed a bill in September that would expand the ban and make it permanent. Similar legislation hasn't yet been voted on in the Senate.'

192 comments

  1. I bought a laptop last monday from Dell... by llamaluvr · · Score: 3, Interesting

    I bought it over the internet, obviously, and they still added $80-odd to my bill for sales tax. If the ban wasn't over yet, how come sales tax applied to my purchase?

    --
    Insightful: 76, Off-Topic: 379, Flamebait: 24, Funny: 152, Interesting: 201, Underrated: 55, Troll: 9, Total: 896
    1. Re:I bought a laptop last monday from Dell... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      They needed bail money for the Dell guy.

    2. Re:I bought a laptop last monday from Dell... by GirTheRobot · · Score: 0

      I take it you live in TX?

    3. Re:I bought a laptop last monday from Dell... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      No wonder he hasn't made any more commercials.

    4. Re:I bought a laptop last monday from Dell... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Informative

      You probably live in a state where Dell has a physical presence. If you didn't, that's where the question of Internet taxation would apply.

    5. Re:I bought a laptop last monday from Dell... by blazer1024 · · Score: 5, Interesting

      State sales tax laws are a bit weird.. IANAL, but from what I've researched on it, if a company has ANY physics presence in the state where you are purchasing an item, you must pay sales tax on that item, regardless of how you order it, or where you placed the order. What matters is your physical location.

      So it's quite possible that Dell has a physical location in the state where you live, and therefore you have to pay sales tax. If they do not have physical presence in your state, then you were inappropriately charged sales tax and you may be able to get it back.

    6. Re:I bought a laptop last monday from Dell... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I bought it over the internet, obviously, and they still added $80-odd to my bill for sales tax. If the ban wasn't over yet, how come sales tax applied to my purchase?

      If they have a "business presence" in your state, then they are required to charge sales tax. In this case, the internet sales tax ban does not apply since you are not engaged in interstate commerce.

    7. Re:I bought a laptop last monday from Dell... by kaleth · · Score: 3, Informative

      Because it isn't really a sales tax ban. If you have a physical presence in the state, you are still required to collect sales tax. Only interstate purchases are exempt, because of the difficulty in complying with all of the different sales taxes laws.

    8. Re:I bought a laptop last monday from Dell... by Phosphor3k · · Score: 1

      All of Dell's small business purchases have sales tax added to them.

    9. Re:I bought a laptop last monday from Dell... by CyberTech · · Score: 1

      Possibly because Dell has a physical presence in your state -- I seem to recall hearing that as a requirement for charging sales tax.

      --
      -- CyberTech
    10. Re:I bought a laptop last monday from Dell... by Mantorp · · Score: 5, Informative

      From The electronic commerce associationThe Supreme Court blocked the states in Quill Corp. v. North Dakota, 504 U.S. 298 (1992). In Quill, the Supreme Court held that, because state sales and use taxes are so complicated, a state cannot require a remote seller to collect sales or use taxes unless the seller has a physical presence, or "nexus," in the state.

    11. Re:I bought a laptop last monday from Dell... by jeffkjo1 · · Score: 1

      Adding on to the other posts, if Dell has any form of physical presence in your state, you have to pay sales tax. Whether its an actual Dell Store, or just a tiny kiosk in a mall somewhere, it doesn't matter.

      Such is life

    12. Re:I bought a laptop last monday from Dell... by MrUnknown · · Score: 1

      i believe the bill bans taxes for collecting tax over the border. you got charged because it was a in-state purchase (Dell probably has a office in your state). however, if they have no office in my state and I order from them, they cant charge tax. basically collecting X state tax while the person is in the state of Y.

    13. Re:I bought a laptop last monday from Dell... by llamaluvr · · Score: 1

      That's a good point -

      Is anybody aware of which states have (or don't have) a Dell presence?

      FYI, I'm in Ohio.

      --
      Insightful: 76, Off-Topic: 379, Flamebait: 24, Funny: 152, Interesting: 201, Underrated: 55, Troll: 9, Total: 896
    14. Re:I bought a laptop last monday from Dell... by bfischer · · Score: 0, Offtopic

      A physics presence? Does that mean that they have a store where Einstein or Hawking worked at one time?

    15. Re:I bought a laptop last monday from Dell... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Texas and Tennessee definitely are home to Dell plants. So I've no real chance of getting anything from them tax-free, but that seems to be the case for almost everything for me: eCost/PCMall (Memphis), TiVo (Knoxville), Dell (Nashville/Lebanon). I've grown accustomed to paying sales tax and find it a great treat when the retailer doesn't automatically charge me for it. Of course, technically I'm still supposed to pay up (Knoxville News-Sentinel article).

    16. Re:I bought a laptop last monday from Dell... by w42w42 · · Score: 2, Interesting
      So it's quite possible that Dell has a physical location in the state where you live, and therefore you have to pay sales tax. If they do not have physical presence in your state, then you were inappropriately charged sales tax and you may be able to get it back.

      Getting slightly off topic, but I'm curious how manyoutfits on the 'net do this: If they charged you sales tax for a state they do not have a presence in, that can equate to fraud. Every once in awhile you hear people on the news charging illegal fees for items or services, fake taxes being a favorite. It is very illegal to collect money on the state's behalf and then not turn that money over to the state.

    17. Re:I bought a laptop last monday from Dell... by seichert · · Score: 1

      Dell sells a lot computers to all levels of government. I would imagine they have offices in nearly all 50 states.

      --

      Stuart Eichert

    18. Re:I bought a laptop last monday from Dell... by ennuiner · · Score: 4, Informative

      I had the [mis]fortune of working for Dell's consumer sales phonebank this summer. This was a constant source of annoyance for customers who wanted to buy at advertised prices. They understood shipping, but did not quite understand why we had to charge sales tax in states where we had a business presence. Unfortunately, Dell has sites in some big states like Texas and Florida, too. Anyway, the states where Dell has to charge the full sales tax are Texas, Tennessee, Florida, Ohio, Pennsylvania, Kentucky, Nevada, North Carolina, and Oregon. If the machine has an on-site service contract, like desktop and some notebook systems, Dell charges tax on the value of the service contract in all states with sales tax. The contracts are handled by a third-party contractor, Banctec, so Dell isn't the company with the business presence in that case.

      --
      Somebody please, tell this machine I'm not a machine.
    19. Re:I bought a laptop last monday from Dell... by Guppy06 · · Score: 1

      "but from what I've researched on it, if a company has ANY physics presence in the state where you are purchasing an item,"

      Since when has Dell been operating unlicesed nuclear accelerators in any state (let alone one specific state)? And why can't I buy them from Dell's website?

    20. Re:I bought a laptop last monday from Dell... by sTalking_Goat · · Score: 1

      not in Cali apparently. I didn't notice any sales tax on my shiny new laptop. or New York. My aunts desktop didn't have any either...

      --

      My days of not taking you seriously are certainly coming to a middle...

    21. Re:I bought a laptop last monday from Dell... by homer_ca · · Score: 1

      Dell's home sales is considered a separate entity from their business sales. Their home store only sells online and over the phone. So they only charge sales tax in TX and maybe one or two other states. Dell's business store does charge sales tax everywhere because they have a physical presence in more states. They have lots of local sales reps for doing business sales. One of the proposed tax laws would do away with that loophole and force companies like Dell to collect sales tax in any state where they do business under that name, even if it's another division like business sales.

    22. Re:I bought a laptop last monday from Dell... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      s/state/county/
      s/state/city/

      That's one of the reasons retailers have balked at handling sales taxes. There are so many of them all over the place.

    23. Re:I bought a laptop last monday from Dell... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I believe I had to pay sales tax in Illinois. And Oregon doesn't have sales tax, does it?

    24. Re:I bought a laptop last monday from Dell... by OMEGA+Power · · Score: 1

      I've often wondered this too. Also I seems to apply only to full systems. I have ordered a variety of items from Dell (monitors, PDAs, memory cards of various kinds, etc) without tax but they always charge me sales tax on systems (desktops and laptops)

    25. Re:I bought a laptop last monday from Dell... by scifience · · Score: 0

      I had the same problem (I live in OH) and finally figured out it was a result of those kiosks that Dell is putting up in the shopping malls.

    26. Re:I bought a laptop last monday from Dell... by Casshan-Robot+Hunter · · Score: 1

      Happily..... Oregon has no sales tax.

      --
      Why oh why didn't I take the purple pill?
    27. Re:I bought a laptop last monday from Dell... by cluckshot · · Score: 2, Informative

      Having worked for the State of Alabama Department of Revenue, Sales and Use Tax Division, I might know a thing or two about this. The issue is NEXUS (Connection) and an issue of where the sale occurred.

      Generally the Law has held that the location of purchase is the point of Delivery of Title to the object. This might seem to be that when you get something in the mail or by freight currier that it was sold to you when you picked it up. This is not so. The issue is where did it become yours. If you paid freight, the the item became yours when and where it was handed to the freight currier. (Free on Board[FOB]) If the freight is paid for by the Supplier then it becomes yours at your door unless you accept it as FOB at their dock. This is sometimes confusing to people.

      The issue of collection of sales tax at the FOB point is generally one of the State in Question will not charge Sales Taxes on items shipped out of State because the item is for "Export." Please note that the definition of "State" is Nation just like Germany or France. We are 50 NATIONS not one. We are Federated. (Allies with a common control of foreign policy externally) The state where the goods come from generally likes to see lots more business and knows that if it taxes sales to outside, then it will lose business. The state receiving the goods is offended as it undercuts the taxed business base. This problem within the USA is a private low key war among the States.

      The real solution is contained in the US Constitution where the Federation is empowered to resolve such matters under the power to regulate Interstate Commerce. This being one of the powers that Congress is doing its best to forget that it has, we suffer the problem of not having our tax bases of our various States protected by the Feds. I know that people don't like paying taxes, but we have to do so to support our government. This is undermining our Federation. It threatens our security.

      Prior to the Internet Catalogue Sales did the same thing. Generally the cost of freight and such made the effect minor until the late 1960's. With the advent of large efficient Freight and communication services (including but no limited to the internet) we began to see serous problems. With the Advent of "Free Trade" (allowing non-federation States into the trade mix) this has become a serious threat to the existence of our States. 44 of the 50 US States are in serious financial problems due in no small part to this problem. The loss of the "Internet Ban" does little here. The real issue here is if the Federation will come in and do its job assuring that if one state drops its sales tax on mail order or internet order sales as "Export" goods, that the other state will get to pick up the "Inport" Status. The State of Alabama has a "Use" Tax. The "Use" tax taxes the use of an item if it did not pay sales tax. As such nobody in Alabama legally did not pay these taxes already.

      Frankly the various US States need to stop this Low Key War on each other's tax base and start cooperation. The proper forum for the peace settlement is CONGRESS.

      The problem of stopping the DOMESTIC US tax war will not alter the problem of the Extra-Federation tax war against the USA generally. That too needs to be addressed by the US Congress and most specifically by not writing Trade Deals which give the WTO or similar bodies power to stop us from dealing with this and by repealing NAFTA and GATT and USSFTA and USCFTA.

      So long as one party is held to trade handicapped with a massive tax burden and his competition is free to do so without taxation, this constitutes de facto illegal status on the taxed party. His trade is fined and thus essentially illegal. This was recognized in the US Supreme Court Rulings of 1820 that prohibited taxation of Federal Institutions by States and of Churches by States. It was ruled that "The power to tax was the power to destroy."

      The general demand of States for an end of this both domestically and externally, has been bra

      --
      Never Politically Correct ~ I prefer the facts If you don't like what I say, get a life, or comment yourself.
    28. Re:I bought a laptop last monday from Dell... by cluckshot · · Score: 1

      Having worked for the State of Alabama Department of Revenue, Sales and Use Tax Division, I have an observation. It is too bad that the judge in this case never read the US Federal Tax Code or its Rulings. In Alabama our Sales Tax law was like the chapter of a book and all of the Rulings etc would have been another chapter. In total I suppose it might have made a small book (Very Thin) With the US Tax Code and its rulings approaching some 10,000 new pages a year and not even God could understand it, how on earth could any federal judge not avoid the obvious conclusion here that the Federal Tax Code could not be enforced as it was incomprehensible!

      This actually goes to the root of the legal doctrine that "Ignorance of the Law is no excuse." This doctrine makes as its underlying assumption that any reasonable person should at least know that the law would regulate and or tax an activity based upon some basic human knowlege. I am forced to observe that most of the US Tax Code is so confusing that no rational person could be expected to anticipate it or otherwise even imagine that they should have to comply with it. For those who don't understand, the US Tax Code is so misunderstood that people actually think it applies to Income of US Citizens working a job. Actually the Law specifically states that the only parties to the US Income Tax are Foreign Nationals, and US Citizens working abroad. This has recently been ruled in court cases but naturally the Press and some others just don't quite get it. It is a mess.

      Considerable info on this may be found by searching around here http://home.hiwaay.net/~becraft/ A lot more interesting stuff here too!
      --
      Never Politically Correct ~ I prefer the facts If you don't like what I say, get a life, or comment yourself.
    29. Re:I bought a laptop last monday from Dell... by leifm · · Score: 1

      If you're in Texas as someone mentioned they will charge sales tax, and here in Tennessee they have several facilities as well (I think they build the Inspirons here), so you pay sales tax. When I purchased my iBook I paid sales tax too because there is an Apple store located on the other side of the state.

      --

      "Windows Me offers tremendous reliability and stability improvements..." -- Paul Thurott
    30. Re:I bought a laptop last monday from Dell... by durbinshroom · · Score: 1

      I'm not sure how it works in other states, but I'm fairly certain that in Indiana you are supposed to declare purchases of this nature and then pay the sales tax when you do your tax return.
      I doubt very many people actually do this, so the state loses out on that income, which is the main arguement against the ban in internet sales tax.

    31. Re:I bought a laptop last monday from Dell... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Oregon has no sales tax.

  2. Don't Worry,..Government is slow by melangeboi · · Score: 0, Redundant

    Luckily city and state governments don't normally read /. nor do they ever catch onto new trends. So I dont think we have to worry about massive sales taxes on the Internet starting at 12:01 Saturday.

    1. Re:Don't Worry,..Government is slow by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Interesting

      It is amazing how quick government can be when they are getting money by their actions

  3. While we're at it... by Capt'n+Hector · · Score: 4, Funny

    Can we ban charging for shipping too?

    --
    Quid festinatio swallonis est aetherfuga inonusti?
    Africus aut Europaeus?
    1. Re:While we're at it... by IthnkImParanoid · · Score: 2, Funny

      I thought the whole point of having the Internet was to get free stuff.

      /me hopes Orrin Hatch doesn't blow up his computer.*





      *Sarcasm. All in good fun, Mr Hatch!

      --
      It's nothing but crumpled porno and Ayn Rand.
    2. Re:While we're at it... by winkydink · · Score: 1

      Or how about just banning egregious shipping charges. You pop on over to your favorite comparison shopping portal only to find that the first N cheapest all charge $30 shipping & handling to send something weighing less than a pound via UPS Ground. eBay "Buy It Now" sellers seem especially prone to this.

      --

      "I'd rather be a lightning rod than a seismometer." -Ken Kesey

    3. Re:While we're at it... by DrEldarion · · Score: 2, Interesting

      A lot of the major sites (Amazon, Best Buy, Circuit City) don't charge for shipping on most orders. Most other sites charge relatively reasonable shipping fees. It's usually just the smaller sites that try to lure people in with low prices then overcharge for shipping that cause the problem.

      If I save $10 in tax but have to bay $5 shipping, I still come out ahead and I don't even have to change out of my pajamas.

    4. Re:While we're at it... by sweetooth · · Score: 1

      They are billing you for the handling charges. This all goes back to when mail oder sales first took off.

    5. Re:While we're at it... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      mail oder sales

      And here I am thinking it was because all you guys never showered.

    6. Re:While we're at it... by winkydink · · Score: 1

      I know that the charge claims to be "handling". However, it sure seems a lot more like "lowballing the cost and making it up on handling" to me.

      --

      "I'd rather be a lightning rod than a seismometer." -Ken Kesey

    7. Re:While we're at it... by KiwiEngineer · · Score: 1

      I agree. Where is all this free beer that people keep on talking about? I have yet to be offered any of it.

      --
      Nobody expects the Spanish Inquisition!!
    8. Re:While we're at it... by stefanlasiewski · · Score: 3, Funny

      And while we're at it, lets ban the charge for the actual item as well.

      I work hard. I think I deserve a free plasma television.

      --
      "Can of worms? The can is open... the worms are everywhere."
    9. Re:While we're at it... by IthnkImParanoid · · Score: 1

      It's at college, but you may have to go outside to get it. I await liquid over telephone lines.

      --
      It's nothing but crumpled porno and Ayn Rand.
    10. Re:While we're at it... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      If I save $10 in tax but have to bay $5 shipping, I still come out ahead and I don't even have to change out of my pajamas.

      Until, of course, the ones you just bought online come..

    11. Re:While we're at it... by sweetooth · · Score: 1

      That is exactly what is happening. Undercut the cost of your competitors to make it look like you are cheaper and then make it up on the handling charges.

    12. Re:While we're at it... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The answer is: Be an informed consumer. You can't save the rest of the sheeple.

    13. Re:While we're at it... by Ralph+Wiggam · · Score: 1

      It's not just dirty little web sites that make money off of shipping. Any TV commercial that uses the phrase "and if you act right now we'll include **** absolutely free" is making money off of shipping and handling.

      -B

    14. Re:While we're at it... by Tetsujin28 · · Score: 1
      I await liquid over telephone lines.

      Considering some of the links I used to be tricked into clicking from Slashdot, I pray we can never transmit liquid over phone lines.

      --
      - - - -
      The real Tetsujin 28 is a giant robot.
  4. RTFA - It's not a sales tax ban! by kaleth · · Score: 5, Informative

    The ban that is about to expire is the one on taxing online services (such as ISP access). The "ban" on collecting sales tax over the internet is because of a law, but is the result of a court decision (which originally concerned catalog sales).

    1. Re:RTFA - It's not a sales tax ban! by tarquin_fim_bim · · Score: 1

      There's always some smartass that will pollute a good ol' FUD article with facts.

    2. Re:RTFA - It's not a sales tax ban! by Davak · · Score: 1
      The Internet Tax Freedom Act

      I always wondered what the "multiple or discriminatory taxes on electronic commerce" part of the law included.

      It kinda sounds like "we won't tax electronic commerce" to me.

      a) Moratorium.--No State or political subdivision thereof shall impose any of the following taxes during the period beginning on October 1, 1998, and ending 3 years after the date of the enactment of this Act--

      (1) taxes on Internet access, unless such tax was generally imposed and actually enforced prior to October 1, 1998; and

      (2) multiple or discriminatory taxes on electronic commerce.


      Another copy of the bill if you so wish

      Davak
    3. Re:RTFA - It's not a sales tax ban! by Chops-Frozen-Water · · Score: 1

      It's always been my understanding of the law that it prevents taxes specific to the Internet. As in, you can't add an extra tax onto something just because it's an Internet/e-commerce purchase. It doesn't mean other taxes from the purchase (sales tax, use tax) aren't due on the item in question.

      --
      The Future: Some assembly required; batteries not included.
  5. There is NO ban on sales tax collection by siskbc · · Score: 5, Informative
    No one really ever has understood the law passed in 1998, evidently including the person who submitted the article. The tax ban was on internet *access*, not on internet sales tax collection. Ever notice that you DO pay sales tax if you buy something in the state you live? There's no ban, obviously - the problem is a jurisdictional one (interstate commerce, namely). In short - there has NEVER been a Congressional ban on collecting sales tax over the internet.

    If Congress wants to allow taxing of internet access by the states, they will now have the ability, though they probably won't. If they want to allow taxing of internet sales, they'll have to get around Supreme Court decisions that say states can't collect taxes on residents in other states. But the issues are NOT related, despite the frequency with which people screw this up.

    --

    -Looking for a job as a materials chemist or multivariat

    1. Re:There is NO ban on sales tax collection by Davak · · Score: 1
      Bravo. Mod parent up!

      I thought Dick Cheney promised that we need not worry about this problem!
      Cheney Just Says NO to Internet Taxes

      Vice President Dick Cheney recently stated that Congress should make the current law banning Internet access taxes permanent and extend the moratorium on any Internet sales taxes. President Bush, during his presidential campaign, had also called for an extension of this moratorium created by the 1998 Internet Tax Freedom Act. It is currently set to expire in October 2001. The collection of sales taxes on Internet purchases is definitely a hot topic for many states and retailers alike, but there are no easy answers at this point.

      While most online purchases are, in fact, subject to sales taxes, many Internet retailers have not been forced to collect them. Now, they are only required to collect sales tax from customers located in states where the company has a "physical" presence, such as a retail store or office. But even some of the larger national retailers have been able to work around this requirement by establishing separate companies located in only a few carefully chosen locations.

      This is where the confusion gets even greater for consumers. If the retailer did not collect sales taxes, most states require consumers to report these non-taxed purchases on their state income tax returns. However, as you can guess, most consumers are not reporting these online purchases. Much of the problem is the confusion created by the current system. Most consumers and businesses simply do not understand the requirements placed on them. State tax authorities and Congress are currently considering several plans that might assist in finding a remedy to the problem. It becomes more important every year as more states realize their resulting revenue losses from increasing numbers of Internet purchases.

      Legislation has been introduced that addresses the issue in three major areas:
      1. Uniform collection policies for all states
      2. Continued moratorium on taxes for Internet access
      3. Target web retailers over $5,000,000 for enforcement

      This issue is far from settled since states are still prevented by law from collecting tax on interstate commerce. Only companies located within the state are liable to collect and remit sales tax. The Internet obviously makes this issue much more difficult to assess, but consumers and retailers alike can be assured that Congress is committed to helping everyone agree on a plan for the future. Stay tuned for more updates.
    2. Re:There is NO ban on sales tax collection by WTFmonkey · · Score: 0, Offtopic
      Thank you, nicely put. This discussion should be closed now, and you can all go home.

      As an offtopic sidenote, THIS FIRE SUCKS. It hurts to breathe and my eyes are watery all the time. On the plus side, it makes for some bitchin' sunsets.

      I just got a new truck and I can't even wash the thing because the ash will turn to sludge and I'll just be rubbing the mud in (not to mention wasting water that firefighters need). Does anyone know if fire ash is acidic enough to ruin a new paint job?

    3. Re:There is NO ban on sales tax collection by bladernr · · Score: 1
      If Congress wants to allow taxing of internet access by the states, they will now have the ability, though they probably won't.

      Actually, I think they will. The federal govervnment, along with most states and minicipalities, gets lots of money from the various Telecom taxes that are for "voice services."

      Now, if VOIP keeps being rated as a "data service," and people switch in mass from POTS to VOIP, then a huge revenue stream dries up. Government, like most people, doesn't like money going away, so they will tax the new communication medium: data.

      Regulation of telecom services (whether they be voice, data, access, or somewhere in between) is 90% about taxes and revenue, and don't look for the government to give that up easily, especially in a time of budget crunch instead of budget surplus. (Ok, am I the only one getting lots of Server Errors on /. today?)

      --
      Sarcasm and hyperbole are the final refuges for weak minds
    4. Re:There is NO ban on sales tax collection by Knights+who+say+'INT · · Score: 1

      D-oh. I think I just posted a huge, stupid message. Gosh, I wish I could take it back.

    5. Re:There is NO ban on sales tax collection by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I'm sorry to hear that you are in the midst (or at least the uncomfortable periphery) of the fires. I suspect that ash is going to be acidic enough to damage your paintwork. I am not an industrial chemist though so this is just partially informed judgement. I'd take care to cover vent inlet grills before starting washing lest you push the ash into the ducts - never to be retrieved.

    6. Re:There is NO ban on sales tax collection by shaitand · · Score: 2, Interesting

      "I always wondered what the "multiple or discriminatory taxes on electronic commerce" part of the law included.

      It kinda sounds like "we won't tax electronic commerce" to me.

      a) Moratorium.--No State or political subdivision thereof shall impose any of the following taxes during the period beginning on October 1, 1998, and ending 3 years after the date of the enactment of this Act--

      (1) taxes on Internet access, unless such tax was generally imposed and actually enforced prior to October 1, 1998; and

      (2) MULTIPLE OR DISCRIMINATORY TAXES ON ELECTRONIC COMMERCE."

      Quoted from another post, you can verify this by reading the bill at a few different places. They are both in the same damn law. This is further backed by the supreme court decision, so that even after this bill expires sat the states still won't be able to do what they want.

    7. Re:There is NO ban on sales tax collection by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
      I think ashes are basic in nature. Isn't lye made from ashes?

      How about using a broom to get the ash off? A leaf blower or box fan could do the same thing as long as the ash isn't sticking.

    8. Re:There is NO ban on sales tax collection by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      And you thought only anal people with expensive foreign cars used Covercraft products.

    9. Re:There is NO ban on sales tax collection by beagle · · Score: 1

      Thank you - if someone else hadn't said it, I would have.

      So that I don't sound too snotty, I'll leave it at that.

    10. Re:There is NO ban on sales tax collection by surprise_audit · · Score: 1
      It kinda sounds like "we won't tax electronic commerce" to me.
      It may sound like that to you and me, but what really counts is how it sounds to the IRS lawyer who wants to prosecute you for not paying appropriate taxes.
  6. Why Internet and Not Mail Order by Davak · · Score: 5, Insightful


    When mail order business was getting started, the traditional businesses and the government moaned and groaned about the lack of tax return... However, today nobody is looking to tax mail order. Why not?

    Mail order is been around far longer than the internet.

    The internet is a wonderful business model and vector. Let us not soil it with taxes just yet.

    Davak

    1. Re:Why Internet and Not Mail Order by ad0gg · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Any attempt at a unified sales tax for the internet will get struck down in court. The constitution bans any taxes or levies on products that are imported from other states.

      --

      Have you ever been to a turkish prison?

    2. Re:Why Internet and Not Mail Order by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Maybe because mail order is dead? I can't imagine mail ordering ever resulting in a significant amount of commerce.

    3. Re:Why Internet and Not Mail Order by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      what amazes me is the fact that people still watch QVC. I would have thought that would have died back in 1998 when the internet became popular.

    4. Re:Why Internet and Not Mail Order by shaka999 · · Score: 1

      I know its an unpopular stance on /., but I really feel for the local brick and motar stores. They are the ones getting screwed.

      All stores should be on equal footing. If taxes make people shop locally more often then the internet, or mail order for that matter, isn't a viable sales medium.

      In an ideal world mail order, internet, and local items would be taxed equally. This should allow the overall tax rate to be lowered because more items are being taxed. Of course this would never happen but its nice to think about.

      --
      One should not theorize before one has data. -Sherlock Holmes-
    5. Re:Why Internet and Not Mail Order by zilym · · Score: 2, Insightful

      I disagree. The local brick and mortar stores have significant advantages over their online counterparts. Sales tax, with its current bias, helps level the playing field.

      People are more inclined to buy from local stores because they don't have to pay for shipping, they get instant gratification, and they can bring the product back in if they have problems. The shipping fee by itself makes up for any sales tax fees.

      I think if you taxed online merchants equal with the local stores, it would severely hamper online businesses. May even drive them to extinction. The dot com bubble has already burst, why would be want to try to take out the remaining (somewhat) successful online businesses now?

    6. Re:Why Internet and Not Mail Order by NumLk · · Score: 1
      Most jurisdictions have a tax code that does tax mail order purchases, Internet purchases, as well as out-of-state purchases. However, the burden is placed on the resident of that jurisdiction (i.e. the buyer) to pay the tax, not on the merchant to collect the tax.

      In practice there has only been one attempt at actually enforcing this type of rule. In the early 1990's, New York City sent a number of inspectors into New Jersey to find New Yorkers who were buying big ticket items in New Jersey to save on the sales tax (IIFC the difference was 2 1/4 %). After several weeks of this, and sending notices in the mail to the owners of cars with New York license plates seen loading TVs, VCRs, etc. into the trunk, it was determined that the cost of enforcement was substantially higher than the tax revenue generated, and the program was abandoned.

      As an aside, some Internet businesses experimented with charging sales tax for all shipments (assuming the shipment was going to a state that had sales tax) as a way of appeasing states that felt they were losing out on a substantial source of tax revenue. Dell was one of those companies. The sonsumer backlash was so great that this practice was abandoned.

      --
      Children in the backseats don't cause accidents. Accidents in the back seats cause children.
    7. Re:Why Internet and Not Mail Order by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      From what I've read, the only reason we don't have sales tax on the internet is it's too complex (not unified). I play sales tax now on interstate purchases, so I don't see who it could be unconstitutional. From what I understand they can tax me because I'm a state resident. Anyway, the federal congress can always pass a law allowing interstate sales taxes.

  7. U.S. Constitution Article I Section Nine by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0, Informative

    "No Tax or Duty shall be laid on Articles exported from any State."

  8. Um... Yeah by tsanth · · Score: 0

    -Gov. Bill Owens especially has been vocal in his opposition to Internet taxation in general, arguing in part that it would dampen the enthusiasm for the Internet...

    The only thing that will "dampen the enthusiasm for the Internet" is if the government started cracking down on internet porn sites.

  9. I don't mind being taxed... by NanoGator · · Score: 1

    .. I just wishh it'd be a flat tax. I really don't want to deal with purchasing from different states with different taxes.

    --
    "Derp de derp."
    1. Re:I don't mind being taxed... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You sir are a friggin ninny!

    2. Re:I don't mind being taxed... by NanoGator · · Score: 1

      Hehe. Last time I heard the term Ninny, I was watcing Nick at Nite. :)

      --
      "Derp de derp."
    3. Re:I don't mind being taxed... by SoupaFly · · Score: 1

      Uhmm, Internet taxes are based on where YOU are, not where the store is.

    4. Re:I don't mind being taxed... by NanoGator · · Score: 1

      I've heard it both ways, eventually just got sick of tuning in.

      Thanks for the clarification.

      --
      "Derp de derp."
    5. Re:I don't mind being taxed... by Jerry+Parshall · · Score: 1

      Which is why the states are trying to get their acts together and simplify sales taxes. There are over 7,600 different "flavors" (combinations of states, counties and municipalities' taxes) of sales taxes nationwide.

  10. Yes this is off-topic, but... by Mrs.+Neutron · · Score: 0, Offtopic

    I want to resurrect the discussion about a Canada icon, and to throw in my own vote.

    How about Celine Dion's head in the flipping Southpark style?

    --

    ~~~~~

    Pet Peeve: Perscription drug advertising to the general public.

  11. Catalogs by andyrut · · Score: 5, Insightful

    I see no reason why Internet sales should be treated any differently than catalog or telephone sales.

    If I buy a widget from Company X via a catalog when I live in a different state than Company X, I'm not charged Company X's state's sales tax. But when this moratorium expires, I could be charged state sales tax if the purchase were over the Internet. And then, which state's sales tax would I have to pay?

    Why should the medium of the purchase dictate the taxation rules? I, for one, would like to see sales tax laws universally applied for interstate commerce.

    1. Re:Catalogs by s.fontinalis · · Score: 1

      It's a sales and use tax. You'd have to pay the tax of the state in which you currently reside. If you've every bought a car out of state, or out of county(if your county has a sales tax), you find this out quite quickly.

    2. Re:Catalogs by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
      I see no reason why Internet sales should be treated any differently than catalog or telephone sales.

      Well, that just shows how abysmally stupid you are. Do you have difficulty telling if it's day or night?

    3. Re:Catalogs by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      So, you're just going to flame him and not even say why you disagree. I think mail order and internet orders should also be treated exactly the same. Which they are currently by law and I don't see anyone serious saying they should be different. What's your justification for flaming over this? Oh, nevermind. I'm sure you just a fucking moron.

    4. Re:Catalogs by egarland · · Score: 1

      Interstate commerce is not taxable by the states. The states keep trying to decide that it is and trying to dream up ways to do it. It's against the rules. It should be against the rules. Go find money elsewhere!

      --
      set softtabstop=4 shiftwidth=4 expandtab nocp worlddomination
  12. Going to be interesting to see the difference by Crashmarik · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Technically states can and do tax out of state purchases. If you buy something in another state and bring it back home youre expected to pay the sales tax. Same if you order something through the mails. If you buy from a large enough company that has a presence in your state you will pay the appropriate sales tax. Funny thing is many years ago I bought a 20 meg bernoulli drive for my Mac. The drive was made by a company called berring and about a year later they called trying to collect the new york sales tax because they had been informed they had to.

    Anyhow this probably won't be a big deal for most internet businesses except for the paperwork. It might not hurt them at all if there is a provision made for the expense of collection. It will hurt those that were only in business because they were a tax dodge.

    1. Re:Going to be interesting to see the difference by Jin+Wicked · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Anyhow this probably won't be a big deal for most internet businesses except for the paperwork. It might not hurt them at all if there is a provision made for the expense of collection. It will hurt those that were only in business because they were a tax dodge.

      You'd be surprised how much a little extra paperwork can cripple a sole proprietorship (I'm not allowed to have employees unless I change my business status and incur another whole world of complications), already being run in combination with a second job, like me. Collecting and remitting state sales taxes, along with regular accounting, and reconciling that with federal income taxes and piles of extra forms is already a huge hassle and confusing as Hell. The ONLY way internet sales tax will work is if they establish a tax system outside of the existing tax codes and districts... like if I no longer remit TX state sales tax and just collect (for example) a "national internet sales tax" of X% that's divided between the states or something.

      If you ever looked at the tax districts, codes, what goes to states, city and metro jurisdiction... well, it's forked up. If they try to dump a convoluted national internet sales tax thing ON TOP of that, I think it would force a lot of small internet businesses like me to just throw their hands in the air and give up entirely.

      --
      My Webcomic: Asylum on 5th Street
    2. Re:Going to be interesting to see the difference by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Technically, that is called a "use tax". It usually matches the sales tax, but they are separate entities. They can be different rates.

      Of course, one of the big gripes of state legislators is that people rarely pay use taxes. A good example is Washington (which has a state sales tax and use tax), and Oregon (no sales tax). People drive from Vancouver, WA to Portland, OR to make large purchases without the sales tax. If you pay cash, there's no record that you made the purchase, and no way WA can go after you with their use tax.

      The major exception would be things that require registration with your personal info, such as automobile purchases.

      Use taxes IMO are a bullshit way for states to extend their taxes to interstate commerce. They should be unconstitutional.

    3. Re:Going to be interesting to see the difference by EmagGeek · · Score: 1

      "If you buy something in another state and bring it back home youre expected to pay the sales tax."

      This is usually true only if the state in which you purchased the item has no sales tax, or a lesser sales tax than the state in which you are a resident, in which case you are only liable for the difference in sales tax between what you paid in the lower-tax state and the state in which you reside.

      For example, I live in Philadelphia, which is very close to Delaware, where there is no sales tax. If I go to Delaware to shop, and buy everything tax free, I am technically liable for the 6% PA sales tax when I bring that merchandise home - with the exception fo clothing, which is not sales taxable in PA.

    4. Re:Going to be interesting to see the difference by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Technically states can and do tax out of state purchases. If you buy something in another state and bring it back home youre expected to pay the sales tax.


      Without explicit permission from Congress and the state turning over the net proceeds to the United States Treasury, this is a violation of the United States Constitution.

      Not that a little thing like a Constitutional violation will deter a state (or even, sometimes, a state Supreme Court) that's hungry for taxes...
    5. Re:Going to be interesting to see the difference by Brolly · · Score: 1

      A major problem that is on the horizon is the Streamlined Sales Tax. This is something that many states want attached to any internet sales tax ban, and is receiving widespread support in Congress. It is, quite simply, a way around the ban. The idea is to enforce the tax that the parent poster talked about, where a customer is supposed to keep track of the tax he/she pays on items they buy from out of state. Many states have these laws on the books, but they're next to impossible to enforce. What the Steamlined Sales Tax will do is to force businesses to keep track of the tax FOR you. How do they keep track of it? By charging you the tax in the first place. This is another step to the holy grail for (notoriously out of control budget raising) states, a national sales tax. Believe me when I say that there is nothing a governor in New York would love more than to tax a citizen in California. The scary thing is, we're headed right in that direction.

    6. Re:Going to be interesting to see the difference by normal_guy · · Score: 1

      I agree that the paperwork _can_ be crippling, but many software packages exist to do this for you. I recommend QuickBooks. It calculates and automatically updates tax tables for you. Quite inexpensive and convenient for small businesses like yours. It sure beats the 'shoebox' paperwork method.

      --

      Linux: Free if your time is worthless.
    7. Re:Going to be interesting to see the difference by i_r_sensitive · · Score: 1
      a year later they called trying to collect the new york sales tax because they had been informed they had to.
      I certainly hope you told them to sod off.
      --
      "Talk minus action equals nothing" - Joey Shithead, D.O.A.
      "Talk minus action equals /." -
    8. Re:Going to be interesting to see the difference by Crashmarik · · Score: 1

      Actaully I offered them drive and media back if they would refund my purchase. They werent interested for some reason.

  13. This does not ban sales tax by bnavarro · · Score: 3, Informative

    It bans "use tax". It prevents states from taxing ISPs based on people simply connecting to the internet, like they do now for phone lines.

    State sales taxes on internet purchases have been, and are still legal, and congress is doing nothing to stop them.

    In fact, right now it is only possible for a state to successfully collect sales taxes if the e-commerce provider has a presence in their state, but the states are banding together to try to rectify this "problem", by creating a uniform sales taxation scheme that will force an e-comerce dealer in, say, New Hampshire, to collect and forward California state sales taxes from anyone residing in California.

    1. Re:This does not ban sales tax by vacuum_tuber · · Score: 1
      bnavarro wrote:

      It bans "use tax". It prevents states from taxing ISPs based on people simply connecting to the internet, like they do now for phone lines.


      Uh, you seem to have invented your own definition of "use tax." The real definition has nothing to do with merely "using something" like phone lines or the Internet. "Use tax" is the flip side of sales tax and applies when you buy out of State and bring merchandise into or receive merchandise in your home State for your use.

      Sales tax is collected by the seller on behalf of a State that has jurisdiction over both the seller and the transaction, i.e. where the Seller fits the State's definition of "doing business" and the delivery takes place in that State.

      Use tax is collected by the State wherein the "use" takes place when sales tax is not applicable. Use tax is based on the jurisdiction of a State over the user of the merchandise.

      The sales/use tax laws are written in such a way that only one State will tax a given transaction, either by sales tax or by use tax.

      You can see this very clearly in cases of costly, registered things like vehicles. If you buy a car out of state and arrange to take delivery of it in your home State (or simply bring it into your State), the seller may not be required to collect sales tax where you bought it but your home state will collect the "use" form of sales/use tax when you register it. Unfortunately in the case of vehicles a new sales or use tax will be paid every time a vehicle is registered by another owner.

      Use tax is inherently difficult to assess and collect, but many States do conduct audits of larger taxable entities within their jurisdictions and collect use tax on merchandise purchased from sellers in other States.

      Daytimer, the well-known manufacturer and mail-order seller of fine business diary/scheduler and related products, voluntarily bought into this big time, decades ago, and began collecting "sales" tax on all mail order sales to customers in all States even though the company operated only in, I think, Pennsylvania, which was why I stopped doing business with them.
      --
      Look at the bright side: there's always seppuku.
  14. Re:Death of internet sales by soft_guy · · Score: 1

    Give me a freaking break. I never buy anything on the internet based on *price*. I never have and never will.

    I buy stuff on the internet because it cannot be found locally, or cannot be found easily locally. Like obscure music, or obscure books. I used to buy the old school Vans shoes online until they started carrying them at the mall. Now I go to the mall to get them - its easier and less risky, less hassel.

    Why do I say less risky? Well, I have bought things online, paid for them, and they never show up before. In one case, the company was an auction house that had been around for a while and I bought a keyboard from them and eventually got a note from them saying they were out of the keyboard, they were going out of business, and would not return my money because they'd rather keep it.

    This doesn't happen often, but it has happened. You have to be real careful buying online. If I buy my shoes at the mall, I at least have them when I leave the store and if I pay cash, there is no risk.

    --
    Avoid Missing Ball for High Score
  15. Re:Death of internet sales by grEchelonSurge · · Score: 2, Interesting

    I don't think that the lack of a sales tax is a very big reason that people buy online. Look at any online store. What you gain in not having a sales tax, you lose in paing $ for shipping (especially if you expedite shipping), and paying your time for shipping (i.e. you have to wait for the item to be shipped to you).

    The main thing about online shopping is convenience, and perceived cost savings. You can get in your car, go out to your local Barnes and Noble, and fork over twenty bucks for a book, OR you can sit in front of your CRT, click a few buttons, and pay $15 for the same book.
    (Nevermind that you pay $5 for shipping, and the book doesn't arrive until the next day).

    Moreover, if we're lucky, governmental officials will not impose a tax.

    Consider:
    If they're really smart, they'll realize that the Net benefits greatly from having no sales taxes.

    If they're just of mediocre intelligence, then they'll either not notice that they can start taxing online sales, or they'll be too confused about who to tax (buyer or seller, what rates, etc.) to actually implement any taxes.

    And if they're just dumb, then we'll have net sales taxes.

    But even then, the online stores will have to compete on their own merit. Remember from your econ classes? Competition is good, and it improves efficiency!

  16. Alas, by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Americans like to think that the rest of the world is irrelevant. Little do they know that they are becoming more and more irrelevant to the rest of the world. The better solution is to start a Slashdot.ca or something; We're usually ahead of the US technologically anyway so why not start our own slashdot and get it over with?

  17. Re:That's fscked up by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Sucks to be people selling the deodorant "Ban" over the Internet.

    See, your joke just doesn't work. Nobody here uses deoderant, so you have to guess that you were making some sort of joke about how everyone here smells.

  18. Tax systems by Knights+who+say+'INT · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Just a few ideas rolling - I'm sure /.'ers will come up with more, and comment on this specific case. Not being an american, I lack the general "feeling" on the workings of the american economy.

    0) Both empirical data and theoretical elaboration seem to concurr on that an Added Value tax would be the most efficient kind of taxation. Sales taxes don't quite distribute tax burden efficiently along the production chain. But how complex is really the production chain in a high added value internet reseller?

    1) In countries with a high unemployed capacity, sales taxes will be very hurtful, as they will reduce consumption. But in a mature economy like the US, a carefully planned combination of consumption taxes and investment exemptions could encourage savings - and americans save four to five times less than their european counterparts.

    2) The deadweight burden (the loss in welfare that doesn't become govt revenue) of a tax depends (among other supply-related factors) on demand elasticity - how much will demand react to a change in prices. If internet buyers are more price-sensitive than, say, buyers at the Walmart station in Dullsboro/OH, this could be hurtful to profitability perspectives as a whole.

    3) How will this affect e-commerce with other countries? Foreigners are never happy to pay US taxes.

    4) From a general equilibrium viewpoint, how large is the internet retail market in comparison to the large scheme of things? If not large enough, could it be the proverbial butterfly in south america causing a month-long storm in India?

    5) I don't know if product-factor (Leontieff) matrixes are done by US bureaus of statistics regularly, but it would be interesting to take a peek if they did. Leontieff matrixes attempt to capture the interdependence of sectors in the economy - and while not being theoretically strict from a general equilibrium viewpoint, they're a very practical statistical tool. Anyone knows something about this?

    6) Are they just trying to alleviate the govt. deficit? It doesn't seem to me the administration really cares about govt deficit.

    7) Are they trying to impose stricter regulations on the internet on the grounds of tax evasions?

    8) etc. etc.

    1. Re:Tax systems by Obyron · · Score: 1

      > matrixes

      Matrices.

      --
      --Obyron
    2. Re:Tax systems by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      So why must taxes go up? Everyone else seems to be downsizing, why not the government too?

      In 20 years the school district where I went to high school has gone from 8 admin people to more than 40. The number of students has gone down. If there is work for 8 people, why are there 40 on the payroll? Pick any other part of local government and you will see the same thing.

      There is no reason to change the tax system, the state level one in the US works very well. States get to do their own thing and when they break, its because of local decisions made in the region and the local people can get a clue and look at other states to help figure out whats broken. That works much better than a unifined system.

    3. Re:Tax systems by shaitand · · Score: 1

      "Are they just trying to alleviate the govt. deficit? It doesn't seem to me the administration really cares about govt deficit."

      No there has in fact generally been a surplus of taxes collected which is why there isn't much concern for the deficit... it's being paid on schedule. And quite frankly, it's not like any bill collectors are going to come knocking on the door of the most powerful superpower in the world. As for the bulk which is owed to the citizens of the US, yeah right, they care.

      "1) In countries with a high unemployed capacity, sales taxes will be very hurtful, as they will reduce consumption. But in a mature economy like the US, a carefully planned combination of consumption taxes and investment exemptions could encourage savings - and americans save four to five times less than their european counterparts."

      Their counterparts in Europe don't exactly have as much to pay for and therefore have more to save. Most basic needs like medical care, education, even housing for deadbeats are taken care of by the state. Sales tax is a relatively small burden compared to any of the above.

    4. Re:Tax systems by vacuum_tuber · · Score: 0

      Knights who say 'INT wrote:

      0) Both empirical data and theoretical elaboration seem to concurr on that an Added Value tax would be the most efficient kind of taxation.

      Surely you're making a sick joke. Value Added Tax as implemented in Europe is a horrible, loathsome thing that sucks about 20% out of virtually all retail transactions. Here in the U.S. no State has a sales tax rate higher than about 8-point-something percent, and each State has its own definitions of exempt items, usually basic subsistence things such as unprocessed food, clothing, etc. A few States have no sales tax at all.

      We need to follow European models about as much as we need extra holes in our heads.

      --
      Look at the bright side: there's always seppuku.
    5. Re:Tax systems by fbg111 · · Score: 1

      Not being an american, I lack the general "feeling" on the workings of the american economy.

      FYI, the general "feeling" re the American economy is that we don't want any more taxes. Furthermore, we especially don't want the government looking at the economy with the mindset that all the money in it belongs to the government, which it doesn't. The EU countries forgot that a long time ago, and here we're struggling keep our own government in check.

      --
      Flying is easy, just throw yourself at the ground and miss. -Douglas Adams
  19. DOODE by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    UR Gettin a Dell

  20. As always... by akpoff · · Score: 0, Redundant

    buying^h^h^h^h donating to a politician at any level is exempt from sales tax.

    1. Re:As always... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      ... not that it would matter. In the end, the taxes would end up in the hands of politicians anyway.

  21. Sales Tax! by zealotasd · · Score: 1

    I suppose they'll enforce sales tax on us by claiming that having membership (a userID) with a website you purchased from constitutes being in the same STATE/State/state as you make the purchase?

    Everyone should go buy the book Cracking the Code or read it online from SupremeLaw.Org, or read information on your Straw Man and howto validate the alleged "Sales Tax."

    More taxation may actualy cause more freemen (and freewomen) to appear out of the wood-work. I'm one of them. :-)

    --

    Secured Party, Without Prejudice, UCC 1-207: Creditor
    1. Re:Sales Tax! by vacuum_tuber · · Score: 1

      zealotasd wrote:

      I suppose they'll enforce sales tax on us by claiming that having membership (a userID) with a website you purchased from constitutes being in the same STATE/State/state as you make the purchase?

      Maybe, but that would upset the entire conceptual foundation of sales/use taxes as they presently exist. It's not the purchase or the location where the purchase takes place that gives a State its sales/use tax jurisdiction -- it's the point of delivery and use.

      There's a huge body of existing case law that rests on this foundation. There may also be Constitutional problems with any kind of national sales tax, which is probably why we don't already have one.

      --
      Look at the bright side: there's always seppuku.
  22. Stupid moderators. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I metamodded the off-topic moderation as unfair.

    I'm *really* sick of how off-topic is abused around here.

  23. I'd rather have a sales tax than an income tax. by Rotten168 · · Score: 2, Interesting

    As the subject says. At least that way I have a choice in paying it. Taxes are one of the two sure things in life, I'd rather have a choice in paying for it.

    1. Re:I'd rather have a sales tax than an income tax. by geoffspear · · Score: 1
      Instead of choosing not to buy anything, you can choose to have no income.

      Income taxes are progressive and sales taxes are the most regressive of taxes. You just like sales taxes more because you make a lot of money and, like all Republicans, you want the poor to pay to salaries of the policemen who keep them from coming to your house and taking all of your stuff.

      --
      Don't blame me; I'm never given mod points.
    2. Re:I'd rather have a sales tax than an income tax. by geoffspear · · Score: 1

      Actually, economists (regardless of their political affiliations or how they feel about each sort of tax) use those terms. You see, they're technical terms, not politcal terms. Asshat.

      --
      Don't blame me; I'm never given mod points.
  24. porn drives inovation. by sTalking_Goat · · Score: 1

    God I wish they would. Then you'd see anon encryted stuff like Freenet actually start working.

    --

    My days of not taking you seriously are certainly coming to a middle...

    1. Re:porn drives inovation. by gid13 · · Score: 1

      Porn really does drive innovation in some ways... I worked at JDS Uniphase (a fiber optics company, if you didn't know) two years ago, and the joke was that porn and mp3s drove their business, and Britney Spears got in on both counts.

    2. Re:porn drives inovation. by vacuum_tuber · · Score: 1

      gid13 wrote:

      Porn really does drive innovation in some ways... I worked at JDS Uniphase (a fiber optics company, if you didn't know) two years ago, and the joke was that porn and mp3s drove their business, and Britney Spears got in on both counts.

      You (or your employer) had a peculiar definition of "porn" to have included Britney Spears. Or maybe you didn't get out much.

      You're right, though, about driving technology, but it's not just "in some ways." Sex has pushed a number of breakthrough technologies to levels of viability in a very big way.

      Polaroid instant cameras were a cute idea, but what really made them stand up in the marketplace was the excitement of all the people who wanted to take naughty pictures at home, the kinds of pictures one wouldn't entrust to a photo developer.

      Videotape, the next handy job for porn, would also have been very slow to grow had it not been for the, um, home movie market.

      The explosion of modems in the 1980s was helped significantly by the BBS marketplace. Almost all the multiline BBSs were "singles" oriented, and even some otherwise very dull single-line BBSs had very hot "door" games. There was an Adventure-type game that involved a mansion full of kinky rooms and objects, in which multiple players interacted with each other over the course of successive BBS connections and won the privilege of sending each other erotic text messages.

      The rapid rise of webcam hardware and software in the late 1990s can also be attributed to the same fevered market but transposed to the Internet, where "Reach out and touch someone" took on a new virtual meaning.

      Digital still cameras, although faster to find more ordinary existing applications, no doubt also firmed up a lot faster due to the heavy breathing factor.

      Both videotape and digital still camera technologies of course lubricated the commercial porn industry by reducing costs and by providing instant results without waiting for chemical development and printing. And on the retail side, many early video stores were really just well-clothed fronts for the Adults Only rental room in the back that paid the bills.

      One can only wonder what new technologies will be thrust into the breathless, receptive marketplace, to be warmly received by closet kinks and passionately showered with bucks to fund the deployment and deep market penetration that bring prices down and provide satisfaction for the ordinary consumer.

      Pardon me while I take a cold shower...

      --
      Look at the bright side: there's always seppuku.
    3. Re:porn drives inovation. by gid13 · · Score: 1

      Haha okay first of all, Britney being porn was a JOKE, as I said. As for the rest of your post, PLEASE tell me you copied and pasted that from somewhere. Because if you're passionate enough to write that much in that good of a writing style on the subject, you shouldn't be writing about it, you should be out there doing it.

  25. Should expand to include tax on phones... by weedenbc · · Score: 2, Funny

    If this bill banned taxing internet access I think we should be lobbying to get them to expand it to cover taxing telephone access. My phone bill would probably be cut in half if I didn't have to pay all the different taxes they sneak in.

    --

    "Trying is only the first step towards failure." - Homer
    1. Re:Should expand to include tax on phones... by Technician · · Score: 1

      Actualy, avoidance of over priced services do change people's choices. All the taxes on a landline make them as pricey as cell service. As such lots of people are dropping land lines and using a cell as the primary service. Without all the taxes, a landline would be much cheaper than a cell phone.

      The taxes on long distance is another example. I get lots of telemarketers trying to get me to switch long distance carriers. Due to the costs, I don't have a long distance carrier. I use a phone card. A $20 card gives over 600 minutes of anytime calling. Unused time at the end of the month carry over into next month. (no unused minutes wasted) There is no monthly charge. I use a card once every 6 months or so. Nobody has a plan that beats a card. If you know of one, post a reply. Dialing the long access number and pin and called number is a pain except when using the one phone in the house with an autodialer.

      Why can't I sign up for 3 cents a minute on my home phone with zero monthly charges for long distance? Monthly taxes and billing costs. Funny they are so much more than retailing a phone card.

      --
      The truth shall set you free!
  26. Ask Slashdot... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful

    What about the possibility of forming a Non-Profit organization that one could be part of and through which one could bypass sales tax? Would there be any advantage to making it religous based? Political party?

    In this neck of the woods, 10% of businesses avoid taxes this way, but we still need to extend this privlege to the common man. Any suggestions on how to achieve this?

    Each member runs there own division?

  27. Re:Death of internet sales by Iamthewalrus · · Score: 1

    What did you do, mail them an envelope of cash?
    Contest that with your credit card company.

    --
    Help prevent the slashdot effect; stop reading the articles.
  28. Not on commerce by siskbc · · Score: 1
    "I always wondered what the "multiple or discriminatory taxes on electronic commerce" part of the law included. It kinda sounds like "we won't tax electronic commerce" to me.

    Nope. I did a debate case on this in '98 or '99. The "discriminatory" bit means a tax that is applied to something on the internet that wouldn't be to the same thing not on the internet. For example, if someone made a 3% blanket tax on internet transactions IN ADDITION TO sales tax, that would be illegal. Or, if I made a 2% tax on internet flight reservations, in addition to any other tax, that would be illegal. Or, if I taxed internet access, that would be illegal (under the other part of the law).

    In other words, if you specifically have to say "on the internet" in a law, that fee/tax would be illegal. If it were covered under a blanket law, that would be legal.

    --

    -Looking for a job as a materials chemist or multivariat

    1. Re:Not on commerce by shaitand · · Score: 1

      So a law taxing interstate sales ON THE INTERNET (whereas they are not taxed on any other medium) would be covered by the law.

  29. Sales Tax Sux - Yea for Internet Sales Tax! by spankalee · · Score: 1

    I'm quite ambivilant on the internet sales tax issue. I've worked with a number of mid-sized, non-chain retailers who are loosing a significant number of sales to the internet because of sales tax. A lot of times people will shop in the store and then buy online. They try to sell their customer service, physical presence, etc, but the bottom line is that even when they can compete with an online price they always get burned by sales tax. The internet sales tax morotorium is likely to put quite a few small businesses under, and it's not because they can't compete fairly against the online retail business model, but because online store have a unfor advantage. That being said, sales tax is regressive and should be eliminated. It puts a disproportionate burden on lower income families who spend a higher percentage of their income on taxable goods. Eleminating sales tax would obviously be the easiest way to deal with the complications of implementing a 50 state tax system.

    1. Re:Sales Tax Sux - Yea for Internet Sales Tax! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      To bad. That store can easily give themselves a 'web presence'. The only reason they fail is because they ignore the larger market-share the internet offers them. Instead of selling to people who are in their town, they can sell products to anyone in the world.

      There is no sales tax applied when you buy something from a company outside your state. When they have a presence in your state, you get charged sales tax.

      But yes, I agree that sales tax is lame and disproportionate.

      Also- the reason online retailers will (or should) always beat a conventional store: It costs less to run them! You basically need web hosting, a ware house, and a few guys to run the warehouse. Orders come in, you pack 'em up and put them all on a fedex or ups truck. Small number of employees, no store front to pay for etc.

  30. Re:My Mac sucks by wanion · · Score: 1

    This whole thing appears to be false, as they're claiming to run Safari on a machine that doesn't even supported MacOS X (10.2 being required for Safari). I can't even be bothered reading the rest of it.

    Oh, admittedly the last time I used MacOS X it was sort of slow, but I haven't used it enough to say either way if it's that slow. I somehow doubt it.

  31. Slightly OT rant about taxes... by DCowern · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Warning: This is slightly offtopic but applicable to internet taxation nonetheless.

    One of the biggest complaints about sales tax is that (in brick and mortar outlets) you never know exactly how much you're going to pay for something. For example, I run over to Walmart and I want to buy a can of Spaghetti O's. The label reads $0.79/can. If I have $5.00 in my pocket, I can buy 6 cans... or can I?

    If I'm in an area with a different sales tax as the one I'm familiar with (in Louisiana sales tax varies from parish to parish where parish is the rough equivalent of a county), I may miscalculate the tax and I might not have enough at checkout.

    I REALLY wish the government would pass a law that all taxes must be included in the labeled sale price. The seller should take into account the appropriate sales tax when deciding how much to sell an item for and the state should just take a percentage out of the seller's gross sales. It would take an unneccessary burden of the consumer.

    If they did this and got rid of the penny, think of how much easier shopping would be. Keeping track of $0.50 for this, $0.35 for that, $20.50 for something else would be a lot easier than $0.39 for this, $1.99 for that, $19.99 for something else plus tax.

    They should do the same thing for the internet if they levy an interstate sales tax on items bought on the internet. Granted, it's a lot easier to hit "cancel" on a web checkout form than to put things back at a grocery but it would set a nice precident.

    P.S. -- VERY OT, has anyone else been getting lots of Server 500 errors when browsing Slashdot over the past week? I used to never get any and now I'm getting them in roughly one out every five page views... weird.

    1. Re:Slightly OT rant about taxes... by dabadab · · Score: 1

      Jeez, you in the USA have a very backwards country :)
      In Europe the gross price is shown on the labels (sometimes along with net price, esp. in wholesale stores).

      --
      Real life is overrated.
    2. Re:Slightly OT rant about taxes... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yeah, we're so backwards, we know what gross and net mean as well. Stupid illiterate Youropeein.

  32. Re:My Mac sucks by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Wow. This troll got fp!

  33. Internet taxation == no big deal by tjstork · · Score: 1


    The different states are going to impose their own sales taxes on internet purchases and some cities are going to impose their own taxes.

    What does this mean?

    a) some states will try to tax internet purchasing out of existence in order to protect brick and mortars

    b) some states will selectively tax to protect some local industry.

    c) some states will overtax in order to advance social agendas.

    d) companies that facilitate online purchasing will probably offer state sales tax collection services. For software, I think SWREG already does this.

    e) a small handful of people will complain about getting sales taxes on the internet. an even smaller number of people will move from state to state to avoid the tax.

    f) republicans will tout the internet sales tax as implemented in some states as a replacement for the income tax.

    g) all of the above.

    --
    This is my sig.
  34. Sales tax ban NOT expiring! by russotto · · Score: 3, Informative

    If only there was a "WRONG" moderation and it applied to the blurbs!

    The fact that Internet and catalog retailers don't have to collect sales tax for states they don't have a business presence in is a result of a Supreme Court decision and the Interstate Commerce Clause of the US Constitution (which reserves regulation of interstate commerce to the federal government). That doesn't expire. The states have been trying, since before the Internet was a big thing, to get Congress to change that. So far they've failed, but they are still trying.

    What does expire is a moratorium on a tax on Internet services themselves -- e.g. a tax on your ISP's services.

  35. What do you expect from... Utah? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    The bonehead that started all this is Utah Governor Micheal Leavitt. He was the one that made the push for "state sales tax on internet purchases".

    My question is why isn't Leavitt facing charges over Olympic Committee Bribery this week along with Tom Welch and David Johnson?

    And to think Bush wants to appoint this idiot to the EPA!

  36. paying state tax for out of state sales by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful

    In good old ohio we are sopost to pay tax on all mag and internet out of state sales. I dont have a problem paying taxes. What I dont get is why i have to pay ohio. I mean i consider a mag or internet sale as the same as getting into my car and driving there. I think I should have to pay right then and there, at the place of purchase. Why should ohio get money when they dont support the business nor do they promote new businesses to come.

    I say have all internet sales tax tax right there as if i was there in person. You wanta buy from ca instead of your own state, fine, but pay ca taxes. This would make states WANT to have internet business instate, or else loose money to other states that are supporting the business.

  37. That's how it works in the UK by Peter+Cooper · · Score: 2, Interesting

    I agree with you. On a recent trip to California, I was really peeved at the way prices are never what they seemed.

    In certain places, like McDonald's, you paid what you saw. $1.99 for a McWhatever.. you paid $1.99. But at In'N'Out (oh I miss that place), for a $2.99 burger, you ended up paying like $3.23 or some similarly bizarre amount. Shopping at Ralph's was as interesting, which certain trips resulting in no tax, and others resulting in a few dollars (I believe this is because food is exempt from CA sales tax?).

    In the UK, however, almost everywhere includes the VAT (like a 17.5% sales tax). So much so, that most people don't realise that most items have 17.5% tax.

    The only places that predominantly list prices without VAT are trade magazines, parts catalogs, and so on.. because most businesses can 'claim the VAT back' from the taxman on purchases for business use.

    The one BENEFIT I see of not including taxes on the display price is that people learn that their government is taxing them heavily. As I said before, most British people just pay the sticker price, and go on their way.. Americans, however, have that tax burden in their face everytime they go to In'N'Out. This might make a difference when it comes to voting on taxes in the future.

    1. Re:That's how it works in the UK by NOLAChief · · Score: 1
      Americans, however, have that tax burden in their face everytime they go to In'N'Out. This might make a difference when it comes to voting on taxes in the future.

      Unfortunately, it's already made a difference. It's why most states are slashing their budgets left and right and why Bush is creating record-setting national debt (and indirectly why California now has the Governator). There is a disconnect in the mind of most Americans. On the local level, they want the government to provide them with whatever they want (transportation, schools, you-name-it), but routinely vote down tax measures to fund them. Nationally, our current government realizes that cutting taxes now gets them votes, thus keeping them in power. But how to pay for federal government programs (not to mention escalating costs of blowing up Middle Eastern countries) remains to be seen.

      Don't get me wrong, I'm no fan of paying taxes, but they are a necessary evil. I rue the day 40 years from now when my undereducated children get to pay extra taxes on the debt from our time while wondering how they'll pay my medical bills because Social Security and Medicare died 20 years before.

  38. What Sales Tax?!?! by Infernon · · Score: 1

    I live in Delaware you insensitive clod!

  39. I like buying on the internet because.... by Charcharodon · · Score: 2, Informative
    Well frankly I live way the hell out in the middle of nowhere. The closest mall is 45-50 minutes away and with gas still hovering around $1.65 thats just under $10 plus my time to go buy a single item. For half that (shipping and handling) plus no sales tax (thank you california 8.25%!!!)I don't waist my time and gas driving and then having to fight the crowds and taking the chance they don't even have what I'm looking for.

    Other than some kinds of clothes there is very little I haven't bought on the internet. Parts for my computer, photo gear, clothes, scuba gear, stuff for my dogs, presents, and yes even toilet paper. Other than perishable food items I buy every thing online that I can.

    Mostly because of convience and savings, but at the same time it's on principle since I live in the People's Republic of California, the third largest communist country after China and the EU, where the politicians have a nasty way of pissing away our tax money like there is no tomorrow.

    A good example is the fuel tax, at $.18 a gallon, they collect over $16 billion a year with this tax. You know how much of it they actually spend on roads? Less than 1/4 of it, California by the way has some of the worse roads in the country.

    I make it a point not to buy from any company that charges CA sales tax, even if it mean it will take an extra few days to get it shipped in from New Jersey. Funny though, even with the extra shipping charge the prices still usually manage to come in under those based in CA.

    1. Re:I like buying on the internet because.... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Overcrowded jails, unemployment requires proof of living here 2 years (and in general is more strict than in other states), the schools suck, the government is on such tight finances that its bond rating is just two steps above WebVan - I hate California taxes too, but calling it socialist it kooky.

    2. Re:I like buying on the internet because.... by hesiod · · Score: 1

      > calling it socialist it kooky.

      That's why he called it Communist.

    3. Re:I like buying on the internet because.... by tuxedobob · · Score: 1

      Dude, every state has the worst roads in the country.

      Come on, somebody tell me where I can drive without potholes in city streets.

  40. Very OT by wadetemp · · Score: 2, Funny

    P.S. -- VERY OT, has anyone else been getting lots of Server 500 errors when browsing Slashdot over the past week? I used to never get any and now I'm getting them in roughly one out every five page views... weird.

    Yes, I have. Also I noticed that http://www.slashdot.org started redirecting to http://slashdot.org:80, instead of just http://slashdot.org, at about the same time I started seeing the 500 errors occasionally. It must mean they've changed something (in the Matrix.)

  41. Re:Alas by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Hey, I'm not bringing this up to insense canadians... just wanted to bring up an older question that's been floating in the discussions for a while. Feel free to suggest some strange US icon rather than the flag if you like. Mr. Neutron suggested a mountie hat, but that got mixed reviews.

  42. Re:My Mac sucks by Valar · · Score: 1

    This is a standard troll. Please don't feed. It is like a form letter. Fill in the OS, and you're all ready to go.

  43. Considering... by Treacle+Treatment · · Score: 1, Funny

    I don't have any money to buy things locally, much less over the internet I don't think changes to the tax laws are going to affect me very much.

    --
    TT
  44. No Senater will change this one... by Dan+Connor · · Score: 1

    No Senater will change this one..., not a single one will want to bear the change. This law will pass.

  45. there should be a tax by Dillenger69 · · Score: 1

    I feel that a sales tax should be paid by the retailer in their home location.

    You should pay the tax of wherever you buy a product from.

    --
    09 F9 11 02 9D 74 E3 5B D8 41 56 C5 63 56 88 C0
    1. Re:there should be a tax by Paddyish · · Score: 1

      definately more enforceable.

    2. Re:there should be a tax by Alphi1 · · Score: 1
      You should pay the tax of wherever you buy a product from.

      Except for that little concept "no taxation without representation"...

      For example, if I order something from a web site based (physically) in the state of California (and for the record I do not live in that state), then I would need to pay taxes to the state of California, but would not have the right to vote for things in the state of California (such as, oh, let's say, a governor's race)?

    3. Re:there should be a tax by ViolentGreen · · Score: 1

      I agree with this too. I don't really understand why this was never the case. With the financial troubles most states are having, I think it would be very beneficial.

      --
      Not everything is analogous to cars. Car analogies rarely work.
    4. Re:there should be a tax by Otto · · Score: 1

      Except for that little concept "no taxation without representation"...
      For example, if I order something from a web site based (physically) in the state of California (and for the record I do not live in that state), then I would need to pay taxes to the state of California, but would not have the right to vote for things in the state of California (such as, oh, let's say, a governor's race)?


      If you were to physically go to california and buy it over the counter, you'd pay the sales tax as well. Is that also "taxation without representation"?

      --
      - Give a man a fire and he's warm for a day, but set him on fire and he's warm for the rest of his life.
  46. History Repeating - Unfortunately. by WaxParadigm · · Score: 2, Insightful

    "Government's view of the economy could be summed up in a few short phrases:
    If it moves, tax it. If it keeps moving, regulate it. And if it stops moving, subsidize it."
    -- Ronald Reagan

    We need to put an end to this aweful cycle.

  47. Re:advance social agendas by Technician · · Score: 1

    It's funny you mentioned this item. I heard on the radio this morning that the new car registration fees went into effect in California at the beginning of October. The first week, new car sales were down 30%. The second week the sales were down another 30%. I guess getting newer low emissions vehicles off California highways is working well. Oh this agenda was sold to the public as a way to raise state income. The bad news is the lower sales has resulted in less revenue from the higher registration fees. Good job geting the citizens to think twice before buying the 2nd or 3rd car that isn't realy neeeded. I know before Washington state canned the high registration based on vehicle value, I always bought 8-10 year old cars. It saved a bundle on insurance, taxes, registration etc. I would always insure just the minimum. The car was so low value, I didn't insure for damage to my car. I just took the savings and stuck in the bank. If the car got totaled, the insurance saving already paid for it's replacement. With low registration fees, I now own a low milage car that is worth insuring. It's also low emission and high milage. It's much better for the environment. I get to drive a nicer car. While doing so, I do pay more in insurance and taxes then when I drove clunkers. Too bad California has taken a big step backward.

    --
    The truth shall set you free!
  48. Just to clarify by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    You are required by law to pay any applicable sales taxes on any purchased you make in the state you live in.

    So if you live in california and buy $100 worth of stuff from another state, you are required by law to pay your home state the applicable tax on your tax return.

    The odds of getting caught not paying the sales tax are minimal, but so are general income tax fraud 'catches'. However, if audited and the auditor decides to dig deep, the records are there.

    The 'law' as written excludes 'internet companies' from collecting the 'tax' required in advance, whether a business presence exists or not. That law expires per the article, and after that some companies MAY choose to withhold and pay the tax.

    Aside from the legalese, i've made many purchases because (and for no other reason) that I escaped paying 8.25% sales tax on the item. With the tax in mind, I may not have bought tens of thousands of dollars worth of major purchases. Wouldnt THAT be nice for the economy...?

  49. Hopefully, the internet is the store of the future by JoeGuitar · · Score: 1

    Hopefully, they will keep the ban on sales tax. It will help boost internet sales, and hopefully boost the economy. I like buying on the internet because of no sales tax. It keeps the prices competitive with stores. If you order online you have to pay S&H. Having no sales tax helps these companies keep their S&H prices and stay competitive with stores. Hopefully, the internet is the store of the future.

  50. In Canada. . . by Fantastic+Lad · · Score: 1
    They have hired 40,000 new tax inspectors.

    Revenue Canada reps last summer also attended a world government conference to deal with the growing 'problem' of lost tax revenues due to internet sales. The bureaucrats were quite literally getting hysterical with the fear that money was moving without being bled off to pay for their comfy suburban houses and four door family cars, big screen televisions and private school bills.

    In Canada, at any rate, the party is ending, the vultures are landing.

    I'm always amazed that people only re-install the gallows when it's far, far too late.

    I have known personally many government bureacrats and civil servants. They were ALL either grown in nerd-tanks and fed to bursing with feel-no-guilt dogma, or they were genuinely smart people who have given up trying to act in a moral fashion. They can all fucking hang, I say.

    Mob rules.

    (So how long until the white vans come to visit my house, do you think?)


    -FL

  51. even worse by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Many African countries have turned to VATs with terrible repurcussions. Where did this abomination come from? Yep. France in the mid-1950s was the first state to implement it.

    So weigh it: France's economic record for the last 50 years of the USA's?

  52. VATs by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    What are they teaching you? A VAT distributes the full load of the tax burder on the consumer. What is this ramblings of distributing the "tax burden efficiently along the production chain"?

    It was designed because Europe doesn't realize when they are over taxing their economies and people were dodging sales taxes. So instead of properly dropping their tax burders, they just found a more complex method of collecting them that was also more difficult to cheat on.

    With a sales tax, you want to apply the tax on the last sale only. Sales of raw materials or commercials sales are untaxed. However, when the tax rates start getting too high, everybody tries to start buying as a producers to avoid the tax.

    The VAT was created to stop this. Now, everbody along the chain always pays the VAT on the difference between the inputs and the product. On a 10% VAT, if it cost $1.00 of materials and sold for $1.30, the producers would pay $1.10 for the materials, sell the product for $1.43, a difference of $0.33, hand over $0.03 to the government, and still pocket $0.30. The next step in the process does the same thing, but since the consumer doesn't produce anything, they have no way to recoup the tax.

    This doesn't distribute the tax load, it still entirely falls on the consumer, just it removes a loophole at the expense of making this stuff hard to do.

    And Americans don't save as much because of the substitution effect. That whole having a steady stream of good revenue causes less savings as people anticipate they contually getting it.

    This is basic economics shit that my first year students learn. Come on people.

  53. Just to clarify the erroneous clarification... by Anita+Coney · · Score: 1

    The US constitution states:
    Section. 9. Clause 5: No Tax or Duty shall be laid on Articles exported from any State.

    If I buy a computer in Michigan and have it sent to my home in California, how is California's attempt to tax my computer not violative of the US Constitution?!

    You're right, states do have so called "use taxes" but they are unconstitutional.

    --
    If someone says he and his monkey have nothing to hide, they almost certainly do.
    1. Re:Just to clarify the erroneous clarification... by Anita+Coney · · Score: 1

      Just to clarify my clarification:

      Imagine if California set up road blocks and searched vehicles for products bought ourside the state. then after finding such products, it taxed them. Everyone would admit that that would be illegal.

      If so, why is it any different when I pay FedEx to deliver it for me?

      --
      If someone says he and his monkey have nothing to hide, they almost certainly do.
  54. Access Tax, NOT Sales Tax by rhwalker22 · · Score: 1

    Friends, Congress is debating a bill to permanently extend the federal ban on taxing Internet access -- like DSL, cable ISP etc. Several states can actually tax these services under a grandfather clause in the original moratorium. The new bill would ban access taxes everywhere.

    This is NOT about sales taxes. That's a whole other debate. If you want to know more about it, go here.

  55. Re:My Mac sucks by ViolentGreen · · Score: 1

    It is like a form letter. Fill in the OS, and you're all ready to go.

    Except that it is just a cut and past. I have seen this exact post at least in one other thread last week. It just seems people would have better things to do with their time.

    --
    Not everything is analogous to cars. Car analogies rarely work.
  56. Re:Death of internet sales by pkp_gl211 · · Score: 1

    I think just by reading your post, I actually became dumber.

  57. No.... by siskbc · · Score: 1
    So a law taxing interstate sales ON THE INTERNET (whereas they are not taxed on any other medium) would be covered by the law.

    That's covered by the Interstate Commerce Act and is illegal anyway. Now if they tried to tax internet without also doing catalog sales, maybe...but presumably, if they have a system for one, it will work for the other.

    --

    -Looking for a job as a materials chemist or multivariat

    1. Re:No.... by shaitand · · Score: 1

      Not to mention it's explicitly forbidden in the Constitution.

  58. I'm lobbying on this issue right now in D.C. by Jerry+Parshall · · Score: 1

    If the act lapses, starting next week, all internet access will be taxable by multiple jurisdictions. The senators proposing "holds" or otherwise opposing this legislation are: Maria Cantwell, WA (www.cantwell.senate.gov, Legislative Director Dan Sakura 202-224-3441, FAX 202-228-0514) Tom Daschle, SD (www.daschle.senate.gov, Legislative Director Laura Petrou, 202-224-2321, FAX 202-224-6603) Lamar Alexander, WV (www.alexander.senate.gov, Legislative Director Richard Hertling, 202-224-4944, FAX 202-228-3398) Tom Harkin, IA (tom_harkin@harkin.senate.gov, Legislative Director Brian Ahlberg, 202-224-3254, FAX 202-224-9369) George Voinovich, OH (www.voinovich.senate.gov, Legislative Director Aric Newhouse, 202-224-3353, FAX 202-228-1382) Ernest Hollings, SC (www.hollings.senate.gov, Legislative Director Ashley Cooper, 202-224-6121, FAX 202-224-4293) Frank Lautenberg, NJ (frank_lautenberg@lautenberg.senate.gov, Legislative Director Gray Maxwell, 202-224-3224, FAX 202-228-4054) Kent Conrad, ND (www.conrad.senate.gov, Legislative Director Tom Mahr, 202-224-2043, FAX 202-224-7776) Call, write and whatever else you can do. The "per e-mail tax" internet hoax is now no longer a hoax, according to Senator Rockefeller of WV - it is a distinct possibility. According to some Seante staffers: "What's so special about the Internet?"

  59. Someone please answer this tax question by volpe · · Score: 1


    they'll have to get around Supreme Court decisions that say states can't collect taxes on residents in other states


    If I drive across the border into the next state, can I pick up a plasma TV at Circuit City and not pay sales tax on it, if I show them my out-of-state driver's license?

    1. Re:Someone please answer this tax question by siskbc · · Score: 1
      If I drive across the border into the next state, can I pick up a plasma TV at Circuit City and not pay sales tax on it, if I show them my out-of-state driver's license?

      No, and you know what I meant. Amended, they can't collect taxes *in* other states. Present location of buyer is jurisdiction of tax.

      --

      -Looking for a job as a materials chemist or multivariat

    2. Re:Someone please answer this tax question by volpe · · Score: 1

      You misunderstood me. I wasn't debating, or making a point. I was asking a normal, non-rhetorical question. But I think you just answered my question when you said that present location of buyer is jurisdiction of tax. This is the first time I have heard this. Everything else I've heard here suggests that it's where the buyer resides that matters.

      Sorry for the delay in replying.

    3. Re:Someone please answer this tax question by volpe · · Score: 1

      Oh, one more thing (yes, I know I'm replying to my own post): If the present location of the buyer is the jurisdiction of tax for brick-and-mortar stores, why do they ask me at the checkout counter for my zip code and charge me a different tax based on what city I live in? Again, not arguing, just trying to reconcile your claim with what I've observed.

  60. Use tax by rossdee · · Score: 1

    What if I buy something but don't use it? (For example something you might want on hand like a fire extinguisher.) Since I haven't used it I shouldnt have to pay use tax.

  61. Right by siskbc · · Score: 1
    Not to mention it's explicitly forbidden in the Constitution.

    Naturally. I'm even granting that they'll find a way around that, but it's a stretch. Perhaps the Feds will do the collecting, taking an amount from each purchase that is coincidentally what is required from the locality of the purchaser, then reimbursing the states?

    Of course, the Court's not obtuse, so the question is how much latitude they'll grant the Feds in doing something like that.

    --

    -Looking for a job as a materials chemist or multivariat

  62. Help stop the Email tax! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Hi and my 0.02 on this issue: We all depend on the Internet for communication. Your help is needed to keep the moratorium in place that expires on November 1, 2003. If the ban ends, state and local governments will be able to tax you for access. Take ACTION now: The Internet Tax Non-Discrimination Act (S.150), ensures that states may not tax consumers for access to the Internet. This bill also (permanently)extends the existing moratorium against multiple taxes on e-commerce. As many as 140 million Americans could have a new tax to pay if the Internet Tax Moratorium expires October 31st. Tell the Senate to Pass the Internet Tax Moratorium. Take ACTION now! Txs, Mitch Arnowitz

  63. Help stop the Email tax by mitchelllll · · Score: 1

    Hi all-

    I posted yesterday on legislation that would prevent local & state governments from taxing your Internet access but... forgot to provide a link. To take action now (the ban expires 10.31), please visit:

    http://tinyurl.com/sw31