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DARPA's Autonomous Vehicle Challenge Too Popular?
Tim writes "Mobilerobotics.org has an editorial accompanying a copy of a letter to one of the teams entering the DARPA Grand Challenge 1 million dollar autonomous vehicle race, in which DARPA admits to underestimating the number of teams that can actually partipate in the actual race. They figure they've only got room for 20 teams, and more than 100 have applied. The writer of the editorial argues that if more than 20 teams can qualify safely and technically, DARPA should have to chose the 20 cheapest financed teams. What should DARPA do to sort out these problems?" CNET News has more on the high turn-out, while DARPA ponders its next step.
use the old battlebots arena
MARIJUANA, SHROOMS, X: ONLINE?! - E
well once i forgot to put the parking brake on and my car autonomously rolled down the hill and crashed into a couple of cars in a new car dealership.
can I have a million dollars? please? aw come on...
This post cannot be re-broadcast without the express written consent of Major League Baseball.
100 contestants, room for 20 on the course... run 5 heats! Top 4 from each go on to final heat of 20...
Don't blame me, I voted for Kodos
Just roll a D100 and see who wins.
this sig limit is too small to put anything good h
They need to have a pre-contest, something akin to Robot Wars. I mean, it is the Defense Department after all.
I Am My Own Worst Enemy
Oh for heaven's sake, they're the Defense department, fercryinoutloud. Just run more races. They should make it a yearlong tournament. You know they could sell it to cable.
It Is the Nature of Information to Transgress Artificial Boundaries
The bottom line of the whole thing is that people have invested time and money in the research and development behind their vehicles. What DARPA should do is run the course multiple times with the max # of participants, or an even division of participants, but run all of the contestant vehicles through, and time/rate them on their traversal of the course. Then pick the X top competitors and run them all through again to pick a winner. Or something. But you can't honestly expect people, who, on the word of DARPA, undertook to research and build something as difficult and complex as an autonomous vehicle, to just walk away because DARPA didn't consider limiting the number of entries before they announced the contest. Adapt the competition to suit the response..... and you'll be certain you didn't throw the best idea out arbitratily to cut down the field.
A preliminary event with the best twenty moving on to the final race. This model works pretty well for most sports, I don't see why it wouldn't fit an autonomous robot race.
I'm tired of bombing the universe
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The article writer obviously has a reason to say DARPA should only accept 20 entries, as opposed to a hundred, but I can't figure it out.
They think thewy have a better chance at winning if there is only 20 entries? Sure, if this was a lottery or something, but it isn't.. There would have to be some kind of merit based disqualification, and if they don't think they can do well against a hundred parties, what makes them think they can do well against the other top 19 (assuming they even make the cut)?
They are cutting over 100 to the top 20ish by visiting each competitor and assessing their designs. Sounds fair to me. How how much it does versus how much it can do should be considered after the competition. If they can't winnow it down to 20ish (that would be GOOD news!!), then run 20 per day until done and then invite the best N back for Round 2 at a future data. Of course there is not an unlimited budget for this so some cuts have to be made.
If each team starts at a random (or sensibly positioned) part of the course, and has to navigate to a central point or points the vehicles would need to navigate similar but not identical terrain, and also have to deal with traffic that is coming at it from many directions rather than a convoy type traffic scenario with everyone starting from the same place.
Alternately, if the weather conditions in this part of the world are stable enough it should be possible to run the course over several weeks. The only problems that occur to me would be that evidence of previous vehicles would mean that the latter teams would have tracks as markers as to where others went. If the area is reasonably windy, or has lots of rain, these could be washed away but that is sheer speculation. Just my $0.02 worth
Nobody expects the Spanish Inquisition!!
It is a "Charlie Foxtrot", for us contractors with sensative ears.
They're supposed to be autonomous vehicles, right? If they can't keep out of each others way, they're not very autonomous, are they?
Can You Say Linux? I Knew That You Could.
.. the most likely to actually produce something worthwhile to the rest of us. If there is no benefit to anyone, why bother? That should be glaringly obvious to anyone.
Classic!
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Well, I think they should evaulate all the projects, the experience of the team members, cost-effectiveness and feasability of the project...
And then give the contract to Haliburton.
I thought the exact same thing, but then thought "well perhaps he's just repeating what he said in anticipation", and while it's certainly no crime, it certainly sucks that he wouldn't preface it with "I wrote this in the last article but I feel it needs to be stated again." No dice, it's all stolen.
Uh, O.K., thanks.
Extremely OFF TOPIC though.
SILLY ASSES.
Just admitting that they underestimated the interest in this competition, and change it to make the rules harder? I doubt that the current requirements include everything that they would like an autonomous vehicle to accomplish.
I like the "tournament" ideas discussed so far, as DARPA should really test ALL the submissions. Find the best technology now, and further development WILL bring the cost down in the long run. Simply saying 'Oh, but this one is too expensive' has too much potential to eliminate superior technology.
There's no wrong way, to eat a Rhesus...
If I were a contestant, I'd go above and beyond the call of duty to win the contest. The rules of the competition say that the vehicles need to navigate a 250 mile long course without human steering. I'd say that all the other contestants are going to try to do just that, with various degrees of success.
But, I am gifted with the ability to see the forest for the trees. The people who are running the contest are with the Defense Department. Among other things, that department is responsible for prosecuting wars. And wars are just formal and legal ways to kill lots of people.
So, my strategy, in line with seeing the forest for the trees, would be to read between the lines. The rules talk about navigating a course, but why do they want to do that? TO KILL PEOPLE. The larger goal here is not to just navigate a course, but to win a war by killing lots of people.
My hypothetical entry would be a very large limousine, with a fully stocked bar, lots of hookers, a disco ball, and a bomb in the trunk. Everyone would take a look at my entry, and say "I gotta take a ride in that thing." The limousine would be very large, and could hold hundreds of people. When they are all inside, the autonomous function would take over. The contest does specify "autonomous" so the car would know what to do automatically. It would blow up, killing a lot of people, and hopefully anyone close by too.
With that kind of performance, I am quite sure that DARPA would be very impressed with my entry, and I would win.
If tits were wings it'd be flying around.
That absolutely stinks dude.
You look like you've gone to a load of trouble with your plan.
Best of luck with the appeal and I will be watching for your team in the news.
liqbase
While Cheapness is important, I dont think that should be a limit, since it can create a lot of discussion and manipulation of the cost.
The best is if they try to take in as many contestants as possible.
If they want to use an economical limit to reduce the number of contestants they should decide a maxcost or something such.
I am sure that a few short heat races would weed out 95% of the competitors.
love is just extroverted narcissism
Autonomous vehicles roaming the countryside, tracking down the stray humans who haven't been corraled into the pod camps so our bodies can be used as batteries. Like we haven't seen THAT before.
Well, lets look at the traditional american ethos of automobiles. You love them!
Forget the limited number of people who are unable to use a car for day-to-day use. Although they still count in the numbering scheme, they are only a small segment of the vehicle's potential markets.
You love to drive. If you didn't, LA would've made mass transit commuting manditory long ago. The infrasructure could be built without a serious budgetary crunch, you'd drop your external oil dependencies, and you'd have a lot less pollution.
So, now that you have these autonomous vehicles that cost just as much as your auto, but they are safer to use as long as everyone else uses them as well.
Besides killing the Trucker / Taxi / etc.. industries which would theoretically dry up if these machines would be put in place, what motivation would a normal person have in buying this vehicle that costs more than the average commuter car?
The only way I see this catching on in the consumer world is through legislative mandate; you just love to drive your cars too much!
Bye!
The Italians solved this problem for Mille Miglia, the French solved this problem for Le Mans, and DARPA can't? You can see why the need help getting a hundred trucks onto the same highway.
Hmm. An editorial in an amateur robotics site recommends using the cheapest projects. Who'll have the cheapest projects? Why, the amateurs who don't have to pay for (or, at least, account for) labor, project space, etc., of course!
DARPA is looking for people to push the envelope on autonomous vehicle research. However, this is also a very political project that involves a lot of cross-department cooperation. They don't want to have to talk to the press about how an out-of-control "giant robot" crashed into the home of the last colony of purple spotted pigmy desert lizards and exploded. That means, effectively, that talented amateurs with a go-cart and a spare PC are not welcome. They want people who either have a track record or who seem to really be on top of things. As a result, I fully expect them to reject most of the last-minute entrants, small teams, or teams with known problems (like "it don't work yet").
Forward, retransmit, or republish anything I say here. Just don't misquote me.
Freight? No more Truck Drivers and the wreaks from them being too tired. No more Taxi Drivers.
The truck driver union wont let that happen.
In Japan and other parts of the world robots do construction work, ie. putting in windows on a sky scraper. They do it cheaper, safer, better, and more efficient than humans, but the glazier union doesnt allow that to happen in America. There are some private non-union companies that do use these technologies, but they tend to get pickted and sabotaged by the unions. Anything that takes jobs away will be fought
wud
"Come on! You're DARPA for Christ's sake! You're the ones who come up with this shit! Why I bet you have a bunch of guys sitting around somewhere right now just thinking shit up, and somebody backing them up. What's your contingency plan?"
-Harry Stamper (Armageddon)
Seems to me like the costs involved in simply extending the contest by a day or two(or 5) to run longer, as well as conduct any trail repairs and such, are minimal compared to the potential rewards from much more competition.
However, I suspect that the "big boy" defense contractors will get first pickings even if they have shit for entries, and if the armed services -really- want to stack the deck, they'll pick the independent teams they think have the least chance to fill out the other 15 or so slots.
If you don't believe me, just look at some of the wonderful moves the armed services have made in the past when things were supposed to be open to fair bidding etc. Or, look at the current bids for Iraq stuff- one does wonder what sort of commission Cheney gets these days- oh wait, that would be his Haliburton retirement account...
Please help metamoderate.
We already have "car-sharing" programs, and this could take it a step farther.
Instead of driving the car to work and leaving it in a parking lot all day, the car could spend the day running errands for other people. Not everyone would need to buy a car and those who do could chose to lease them into this system.
Sure, Americans like the freedom of driving down the road wherever and whenever they want. We also don't like being pressed in with a bunch of other people. Given a choice between an hour alone in our cars or an hour stuffed in a train or bus, most Americans will choose the car.
In my personal case, the mass-transit option takes more than an hour to get to and from work. I can make the drive in 15 minutes. Working an hourly job, the hour of commuting time saved more than pays for my parking costs.
Mod the parent down, because the exact same comment was posted here.
It still applies though.
Like they say, "Amateurs argue tactics, professionals argue logistics."
ladder tournament
next!
Instead there will be loads of wrecks from overworked programmers messing up a few lines of critical code. At that point terrorists will have no need to hijack an airplane, they'll just release virus "InsaneTruck.vbs", or "WackAPedestrian.asx" and every vehicle on the road becomes a remote weapon of terror.
Actually, I hate driving.
But I also hate waiting for a bus, only to have it finally arrive to force me into the back with a bunch of odd-smelling people who insist on cursing in front of my kids. Then I get to wait twice as long to get there.
And getting someplace late at night? Right.
I bike when it's possible, but drive because that's really the best way to go.
This is a great oppurtunity for car manufacturers like honda, toyota, gm(especially) etc to get on in this act.
They already sponsor stuff like Future Truck etc.
Think about it. Toyota unveiled the self parking system in the new hybrid Prius. I bet it must have cost more than a million to develop it.
If car makers take over the sponsorship, they could get a butt load of expertise for peanuts.
But Im guessing is that many big companies ( Carnegie Mellon's team has a budget of 20 million) are helping out because it will give them a toehold in the lucrative defense business.
If a car maker(foreign) sponsors it, then I don't know whether that interest will remain.
Bush is on fire and its not good for my lungs.
Just taking 20-40 of the entrants sucks. You follow the rules, come up with a design that costs a million dollars, then they say "sorry, you're not the cheapest - bye bye"...
That's the wrong way to do it, anyway. You pick the winner(s) out of the best ones to do it successfully for the lowest cost, not the ones that only have a low up-front cost. If they don't work, you've binned 80% of your other candidates.
Also, you look for the lowest cost of building the finished unit, not the development costs put up front. Some teams may have had massive amounts of money put into them to guarantee a win, that doesn't imply the finished unit will be expensive to make.
DARPA should have to chose the 20 cheapest financed teams.
Whoa there, this is government. The 20 most expensive to make should be in the final competition.
In the California-Nevada desert, come see 100 autonomous vehicles fight it out across the desert in this all-out Battle Royale. 20 teams of 5 will be pitted against each other in this fight-to-the-death tournament across the desert. Anything goes as these cars try to block, trample and DDos each other to the finish line...
In other news, I expect to open an autonomous vehicle dearlership soon. initial inventory is expected at about 80 vehicles.
what sig?
The purpose here is to reduce the overhead cost on the army dramatically in hauling supplies etc over long distances with or without roads. To do this you need vehicles than can bypass disabled vehicles and overcome obstacles. They need to be free of drivers who get tired and eat up supplies.
Yep. This sounds like DARPA. "Lets find the most diffucult way to solve a problem so we can funnel money to our friends the defense contractors"
I mean holy-fucking-shit! Who in their right mind believes that this is ever going to be less expensive than putting Earl behind the wheel and letting his cousin Billy-Bob snooze in the passenger seat so they can trade off every few hours? (If you are raising your hand you need a refresher course in what technology is REALLY like)
The only thing I don't understand about your post is Where is the +5 funny?
No, I hate to drive. I also hate feeling closed in at home. If I can't safely shoot a gun on my property I don't have enough room, if I can't leave my boat in the driveway, engine half apart (while rebuilding it...), and so on: I don't have the freedom to live the life I want to live.
I'd love use public transit to get to work. It has to get me there though. In far too many cases just going 3 miles (as the crow flys) can take over an hour! Public transportation in most US cities assumes you are going downtown from the suburbes in the morning, and back home at night. That covers the largest group people, but not even a simple majority in more cities.
it doesn't need to happen all at once.
many busy highways have the High Occupancy Vehicle lane meant specifically for vehicles with multiple occupants.
with autonomous vehicles you can drive closer together at a higher rate of speed. there could easily be similar bonuses for being in one of these bots.
From the post:
"DARPA admits to underestimating the number of teams that can actually partipate in the actual race."
No, that would mean things were fine.
Either DARPA UNDERestimated the number of teams that **applied to compete**, or they OVERestimated the number of teams that **can actually participate**.
Never mind editors should RTFA, how about they read the fscking POST ?
What makes you think that the big boy defense contractors aren't the ones ultimately running this show? You can bet the whole event is a big R&D bonanza for companies like Lockheed, which will basically be all over the place cherry-picking the best designs and people.
Reading between the lines of DARPA's letter...
"
Dear Mr. Insignificant
Thank you for participating, but since this dog and pony show was really only designed to allow the top 20 big contractors (like Raytheon, Boeing, Lockheed, Rockwell, Northrop, GE, GM, Ford, et al) get a chance at a lucrative contract, we must now admit that you don't have a chance in hell. As a matter of fact, we are so nervous that one of the other 80 participants may actually produce a better, more innovative vehicle, we are going to disqualify you all before you even get a chance. Sure, in the spirit of looking fair, we will come visit your site and see your vehicle. Don't get your hopes up. Do you really think we are going to give the vehicle you and your unemployed ex-aerospace friends built in a garage the same chance we are going to give the Boeing entry we get to see at a 40,000 sq ft plant with a clean room and a reception area filled with gnosh for us to eat? Hell, Lockheed is even providing champagne and a mariachi band! Thank you for playing, now go home and let the big boys play with their billion dollar contracts.
Sincerely,
DARPA (i.e. The Federal Appropriations Enabler)"
Who needs innovation when you can get free food and a goodie bag?
"Curiosity killed the cat, but for a while I was a suspect."- Steven Wright
Dear Mr. UngroundedLightning,
if you're going to AC post, posting the EXACT SAME MESSAGE in two different places (one of which is not AC) is not a good idea. Better to refer them to your previous post (#7379858).
DARPA reserves the right to take any measures necessary to stop a Challenge Vehicle that does not respond to an E-Stop. These measures may result in damage to the Challenge Vehicle.
Translation: We might have to blow up your car, hehehehehehehehe!!!!!!!!!!!
That was mainly my point. American Transit systems were built out of the othos that Americans don't use it. I live in Canada, and even modest sized cities have decent public bus systems. They might not be as well utilized as they could be, but at least there is the system.
Much of europe was the same way. When in Prague, everyone rides a tram, or a bus, or whatever. You can see why with the difficult-to-navigate streets, but whatever the reason for usimg mass transit, they are better off for it IMHO.
Bye!
That would be fantastic if the technology could be perfected, but there is still the risk of external influences that can't be wired into skynet. Even if one car can detect that the casr ahead is going to be slowing down to pass, you could still have failure causing more accidents.
I am not saying it isn't possible to reach this point, but don't expect it soon after the technology's invention.
Bye!
Make all 100 fight to the death. The top twenty survivors get to run the race. After all, we only want to send the best 20 -- let's find out which are really fit to survive in a hostile environment.
"To the victor go the spoils" -- a basic premise of evolutionary development.
And don't just select the cheapest twenty -- consider that survivability might outweigh cost, on a Mars mission.
Actually, the really interesting aspect will be analyzing the failure of those that make the top twenty but don't finish the race: lessons learned in vulnerability.
Granted, the fighting aspect won't be anything like cool, in comparison with proper robo-warriors. For a mission that we're launching against a planet named after a war god, we're really not trying very hard to actually attack Mars. But I'm sure we can all get a lot of laughs watching those explorer-rovers bump into each other until they somehow break down.
-kgj
Omg...what a troll. Someone mod above A/C up to stop this mess. Or not. Maybe it will be fun to watch mods loose their mod points over this troll.
Get the politicians involved - that's what they are for, in the land of pork-barrel politics.
oh brave new world, that has such people in it!
they don't have an old military airfield that can handle 200 teams???
One of the acknowledged favorites is Red Team Robot Racing out of Carnegie Mellon University. William "Red" Whittaker, the Fredkin Professor of Robotics there, is overseeing the project. Whittaker devised robots that helped clean up the accident at Pennsylvania's Three Mile Island power plant. The team's budget is said to exceed $1 million. While CMU is building a vehicle from an old Humvee,
Well hell, I could do that, and for alot less then $1 mill too! 20lb weight on the gas pedal, point it towards the finish line wammo, I mean look what it does to imports and brick walls. I'm sure a bit of 'rough' terrain wont stop this sucker.
Your hair look like poop, Bob! - Wanker.
The next big gripe is about the "DARPA site visit". DARPA plans to send some people out to visit each team in December and check on their progress. A few people are complaining loudly about this, but anybody with something to show shouldn't have a problem with it. It's basically a vaporware filter.
Finally, DARPA has decided to use the preliminary testing at the California Motor Speedway in Fontana to cut the number of entries down to 20. I will be surprised if twenty teams field something that crosses the starting line in Fontana, let alone finishes the trial course.
I don't see a problem here.
John Nagle
Team Overbot
(Incidentally, while we have most of the people we need, we could use an additional electronics tech and a QNX sysadmin. "No pay, some risk, a fraction of the prize.")
This competition is incredibly difficult. Travellling 250 miles in 10 hours over desert terrain, on a course which in some places is intentionally too narrow for GPS navigation, is almost certainly beyond the limits of current robotic technology. Because of the slow speeds necessary on portions of the course, the robot must drive at over 60 MPH much of the time! It will undoubtedly be several years before any team passes the test (unless they loosen the rules).
Although there are 100+ teams registered (see the team list here), that doesn't mean much. There was no entry fee to apply! At this point all the teams have to have done is supply a technical paper with their ideas for how their robot could work. There's a huge difference between doing that and actually producing a multi hundred thousand dollar vehicle.
Undoubtedly, only a small fraction of these teams will have the budgets and resources to show up with a vehicle on March 13. I doubt there will be more than 10. And none of them will meet the standards necessary to win the contest. But most of them will be back next year, with a few new entrants, and after enough years of experience they will hopefully succeed.
But for now, this is all a mountain in a molehill. People are making a tempest out of a teapot. DARPA simply failed to explicitly include a phase to weed out those contestants who won't have a vehicle. Now they are fixing that. I doubt very much that the numbers will be an issue at all.
"What should DARPA do to sort out these problems?"
Well, considering what the D in DARPA stands for, the solution is obvious: Ask Congress for more money, claiming that the race is vital for national security. Duh!
You could have 100 prelims where people run a 20-50 mile course and take the top 20 teams and have them run the whole 250 mile course. That way, you give every team a fair chance. If you can't make it through 50 miles faster/better than the others, how do they hope to make it through 250. In addition, they could choose to run the 250 mile course the next day, so as not to give additional unfair advantages to the better funded teams, who could rework/weak their cars between races. Have the cars impounded as they do in formula one racing.
I've spent a lot of time on it so far and am not sure that DARPA's autonomous vehicle challenge is the best place for a roboticist to get a financial return.
;)
For all that DARPA did for the ARPANET/Internet, Cisco made most of the money. I'm positioning myself suitably. My advice to others put off by DARPA rejections is to not be.
The challenge got many people's creative juices flowing. DARPA is good at pushing the cutting edge.
P.S. - Best of luck to those that do race.
~8^]
when the DARPA wave cash about , geeks forget all their war ethics and scramble for the cash
Hitler would of been proud of such a country dedicated to promoting and innovating violence "just in case"
i wonder how many Islamic teams are going to enter ?
Just run the race in the new Iraq Territory. Bonus for any vehicle that finishes.
So we got 16 real teams and 80 people who signed up just to have another item on their resume. Gross.
-Libertarian secular transhumanist
On top of that, your car can still fail, the electronic fuel injection could go screwy and you'd lose power, causing an accident. Heck, in event of a problem, the car could broadcast an alert via some redundant system that goes "HEY! I broke, and I'm right here! don't hit me!" If you built all the cars to be interoperable, you could do all sorts of nifty things, scheduling and traffic management to alleive congestion.
All I'm really trying to say, is that I'd trust windows more than some of the drivers on the road, and these would likely be very stable embedded systems, like the kind that run assembly lines, or your car, every day without a hitch.
Douglas P. Price
"Chinse Downhill!"
I doubt all 100 are totally up to the required quality. Why not just have a much shorter but fairly difficult qualifying race. That would remove the 'almost ready' contenders from those with a real chance.
Bitter and proud of it.
You obviously don't live in LA. Every vehicle on the road is already a weapon of terror. With help from DARPA they'd just be more expensive.
I don't know a whole lot about autonomous vehicles, but your post got me thinking: why not do the civilian challenge over a smaller but more challenging course?
I come from an area that's something of a mountain bike mecca lately, and I'm sure there are lots of small communities like mine with extensive and interesting trail networks that could be great tests for autonomous vehicles. And the communities would love it...
Or are the UAVs not ready for rugged terrain yet?
This Like That - fun with words!
I'd say the biggest problem will be if we all have these newfangled automowhatzits zipping around, perfectly coordinated at 200mph and then that one geezer pulls out into the intersection in his "dumb" car causing the whole thing to blow up cuz it's the only vehicle left that can't talk to the rest of them.
The problem with the system is it requires a LOT of faith in the other cars on the road. That said, I hope we get there sometime...
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i don't think it would be that hard to have some sort of access control mechanism for certain roads. in europe most rail lines are completely fenced off. very few RR crossings on roads if any.
in any case, i wouldn't expect this system to be in place for anything except highways for a LONG time
The system was simple. In pre-qualifying, competitors had to exceed some pre-set minimum standard. If you didn't make it, you didn't get into the regular qualifying session. The reason for calling it pre-qualifying is that, for the bulk of the season, it only applied to the slowest N driver/team pairs.
Qualifying then required all surviving competitors to get within N seconds of the fastest car. Anyone slower was disqualified.
Similar standards are used in the Olympics, where there are minimum standards set to even be able to get there, and (as there are more countries than track space) you then have to meet additional standards to actually start.
It seems that this would be the way for DARPA to go. Now, space and marshalling will place certain limits on how they can do this. You can't do your routine pre-qualifying, if there's nobody you can have marshalling the event, and nowhere to hold it.
Static testing would therefore seem a viable alternative. Put up a prefab shop, where you can statically test the autonomous vehicles. If certain standards aren't met, the vehicle is DNQed. Yeah, it's rough, as this wasn't the original spec, but they've gotta do something and this would work better than drawing lots.
Now, you're still likely to have more than 20 meet the minimum, unless the minimum is so high that you risk eliminating too many. The answer here would seem to be to have some kind of short sprint area. That shouldn't be too bad, now the numbers are down. First 20 across the line are the entrants.
Again, this is rough, but DARPA are badly outnumbered and they don't have a choice but to cut the numbers somehow. The only fair way is to have "mini contests" that are sufficiently limited in space/time that they can manage it with the resources they have.
And, again, competitors may bitch about being DNQed with the above, because it wasn't the original contest, but they'd bitch a hell of a lot more (and with far greater cause) if it came down to drawing straws.
It's a small world and it smells funny; I'd buy another if it wasn't for the money; Take back what I paid (SoM)
i guess thats good news for darpa.......
I'd love to see your first drag race.
Do you really think the driving that the stock car racers do is easy?
The navigation system in my Honda Accord can tell when I'm changing lanes, so I don't really think that "too narrow for GPS" is really a problem. I think that vehicle control (acceleration, braking) is also pretty much a solved problem. I think the only real obstacle here, excuse the pun, is figuring out how to navigate around obstacles (slower moving vehicles, down bridges, trees, large rocks, etc.) in real time. Of course, in this case real-time means driving 30mph!
aQazaQa
Is this going to be broadcasted on the Discovery channel? I hope every team as cameras all over this thing.
Just to do something different!
BT
Just imagine what life would be like for geeks if we could only choose the best "pre-fab" systems. No tuning. No alternate systems for some parts. No replacement of software or hardware. Just the top 20 "out of the box" systems.
If I was in charge, I'd run *all* entrants, award top prize to the best overall, but also keep the best traction group, best collision avoidance group, best navigation group (etc.) in my rolodex, and divide the problems out.
yeah, fuck gas lets burn desel
just charge an entry fee to get rid of anyone who isn't serious, and then run the first 1/10th of the track as a safety and reliability test to get down to a usefull number.
From the cnet article:
"Autonomous flying vehicles are already being used by the U.S. military. The drones used in the Gulf War and in combat in Yemen are examples."
I thought they are simply radio controlled planes equipped with some navigation and guidance systems, but thats far away from autonomous.
See if you can run your vehicle anyway. Or run it independantly, publishing the results for all (including DARPA) to see. Run it fast. Win.
Mercedes actually has a series of autonomous driving projects in development. They have a car that automatically follos the car in front of you. The theory there would be you navigate to a freeway, set it to follow the car in front of you, and relax (until the other guy decides to leave the freeway ofcourse). Think of it as cruise control on steroids.
It actually works as near to perfect as you'd want in that situation. Where it breaks down is following a car in city traffic. It can't deal with the car in front making a tight turn. At least, that's what the limitation was when I saw a TV show about it.
Get your senators and representatives involved. File a Freedom of Information Act request to obtain the criteria they used to disqualify each team that didn't make the cut. As soon as it is apparent that the cuts were arbitrary once a certain number of applicants were accepted, you'll have a factual basis from which to pursue stronger action, like requesting the DOJ or even the GAO to investigate whether DARPA is following the letter of the law.
We have been involved in the Grand Challenge, since about August of last year. We not only designed and built a vehicle, also called 1010Delta, we had all our paperwork and requirements finished about 45 days ago. We tested our vehicle and have since sold it to an outside company, along with 6 more in production now. The company, VIDEOptions, was our financer, and we consider to have spent $532,900 on the vehicle and entry costs. Now, DARPA has placed several new regulations on the race that will effectively eliminate anyone but the big five. They will inspect your production facility, inspecting your capabilities and equipment, and also determining your robot's abilities on how much expensive tooling you have, no doubt. I have a copy of our acceptance letter, and can post it if anyone cares, to show how biased these things are. It's interesting that some competitors seem to have gotten regulations and information before others, but I am not naming names. Just remember the big five darlings of DARPA.
HUGIN 3000
Not exactly a land robot but pretty sweet nonetheless, I know some of the internals but could probably get in trouble for listing them.
I have been onboard when the Navy was requesting a demo!! I didn't get to sail with them but I have monitored this thing on a few trips out, and it is very responsive and very accurate.
Use California Speedway for prelims.
The best 20 get to go the rest of the way. That way, some obnoxious bore with only a few bucks, could still win.
Objective racing, not 'evaluation of the team'.
Riiigght.
Most of these companies already have their own research labs and fund people to work in this area in actual colleges with actual labs.
Think about it. They know how much this stuff costs.
A million is peanuts compared to what it costs for development. Its worth much more to be the first to market with the new technologies. Most of these companies are doing it because they don't really control how the research is done, or what is done with it. The colleges do, and because it gets them nice publicity, they're doing it. Of course, they're "sponsored," but that's mostly because the companies want first dibbs on the technology and that's how you get it.
Well...maybe a few are doing it for the publicity.
Mod me down and I will become more powerful than you can possibly imagine!
Would be a great name for a band.
"Just the number of local jurisdictions that this race will pass through makes the logical approach undoable because of the logistical requirements."
This is pure bull. There is one county in California that the race will be going through -- San Bernardino County. In Nevada, there is one, maybe two if Clark County does not go to the border. Please look at a map before you post such fluff.
The Field Robotics Center is part of the Robotics Institute. If anyone at CMU is going to participate, it'll be them, given that autonomous outdoor vehicles is a big part of what they do. (Well, they is actually us, but I don't work on hardware at all. I'm an abstract algorithms and math guy...)