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The Elegant Universe, Now Available Online

Photon Ghoul writes "PBS has made available online all three hours of the NOVA program on unified theory. Formats are QuickTime and RealVideo with each hour broken up into eight chapters each." I watched the whole thing, and while it's clearly for a lay audience (no math required), it was fun and informative. I was pleased to note that dissenting views on whether string theory was science were presented, and even brief discussion of what constitutes science.

202 of 309 comments (clear)

  1. How long will it be up for free? by 403Forbidden · · Score: 4, Funny

    Three...
    Two...
    One...

    They are now holding a fundraiser to cover the multimillion dollar bandwidth costs of three hours of video on SLASHDOT.

    1. Re:How long will it be up for free? by mcrbids · · Score: 1

      They are now holding a fundraiser to cover the multimillion dollar bandwidth costs of three hours of video on SLASHDOT.

      Come on, buddy. At any decent hosting facility, the *real* cost of bandwidth is around $0.50 per GB of network transfer. The "retail" cost is usually anywhere from $1/$5 per GB, depending on other options.

      Bandwidth isn't free, but it's actually quite reasonable.

      Multimillion?

      --
      I have no problem with your religion until you decide it's reason to deprive others of the truth.
    2. Re:How long will it be up for free? by smclean · · Score: 1

      Has anyone every calculated the approximate ballpark total amount of page loads of your average /.'ing? I would love to see some statistics.

      --

      "'Yrch!' said Legolas, falling into his own tongue."

    3. Re:How long will it be up for free? by jaxdahl · · Score: 1

      I don't know if anyone else noticed, but the call letters of the PBS station 'watermarked' in these videos is 'KQED'. Rather approporiate, don't you think? Is that a real station?

    4. Re:How long will it be up for free? by mcrbids · · Score: 2, Informative

      Actually it's closer to $.10 these days. Anyone paying $1-$5 is getting ripped off big time.

      It depends on what *exactly* you are paying for.

      It costs less than $0.10 to produce a can of soda in volume. Yet most people routinely pay $0.50, $0.75, even $1.00 or more for it. Why?

      Because it's not the can of soda you're paying for - it's the convenience of delivery. It's there, in your local store, just around the corner from your office, home, or wherever you like to shop.

      You're not going to run across town because you can save $0.88 on your next 6-pack of soda. For little guys, convenience is routinely a much larger part of the equation than price per unit.

      If you are a smaller ISV, (Independent Service Provider, in case you didn't know) convenience is *far* more important than cost per GB.

      I'm *happy* to pay $1-3 per GB, if the next DDoS attack is filtered out by a qualified network technician in the hosting facility while I peacefully sleep. I'm *happy* to pay this price if there's somebody there, day or night, to help me when something goes wrong. I'm not at all hesitant to pay this if I know that I can handle any reasonable traffic spike, anytime, day or night, without having to buy new hubs, switches, and routers.

      On the other hand, if I was /., and had to deliver a truly massive quantity of traffic every day, the metrics of the business equation suddenly change rather dramatically in favor of price/unit. If you deliver 70 GB per hour instead of 200 GB per month, things become quite different quite quickly.

      A good price can be *alot* more than just calculating price per unit, particularly when the unit count is small. Just remember what you are *really* paying for.

      -Ben

      --
      I have no problem with your religion until you decide it's reason to deprive others of the truth.
    5. Re:How long will it be up for free? by physicsdemon · · Score: 1

      KQED is a real station

    6. Re:How long will it be up for free? by Yottabyte84 · · Score: 1

      I actualy recevie it here. Channel 9 in the Sacramento, CA area.

    7. Re:How long will it be up for free? by 0x0d0a · · Score: 1

      If you are a smaller ISV, (Independent Service Provider, in case you didn't know)

      The acronym and the words don't match up.

      Independent Software (occasionally Service or Solution) Vendor might be better.

      An ISV is just a company that sells software (or services or solutions :-) ) but doesn't sell the hardware platform that the software runs on. Adobe's a good example of an ISV.

      And the poor schmucks that put up movies need to learn to use BitTorrent.

    8. Re:How long will it be up for free? by Bauhinian · · Score: 1

      The parent post isn't offtopic, but is rather a reference to the PBS kids show of the 80's called "3-2-1 Contact". (See http://home.att.net/~tvthemelyrics/3-2-1.htm)

    9. Re:How long will it be up for free? by mcrbids · · Score: 1

      Yeah. ISV="Independent Service Vendor"... my bad. We write and host custom software for SMB...

      --
      I have no problem with your religion until you decide it's reason to deprive others of the truth.
    10. Re:How long will it be up for free? by ph43thon · · Score: 1

      Well... I think the $200 million donation from the McDonald's Hamburger widow will help PBS cover the bandwidth. (if you don't know what I'm talking about.. just take my word that PBS has two hundred million dollars now.)

    11. Re:How long will it be up for free? by ph43thon · · Score: 1

      ha, oop. guess I just turned on my big, "i am an ass" sign.. oh well.

  2. Since when... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Interesting

    ..has making something accessible to the general public while remaining factually correct been a bad thing?

    I love being a geek, but some of you really take elitism to a bit of an extreme. Sheesh.

    1. Re:Since when... by michaeltoe · · Score: 4, Interesting
      "The Elegant Universe" is about string theory, sure... but rather than being as accurate and descriptive as possible, they opt to squander three hours on needless (and logically irrelevant) special effects. It also sports a repetitious narrative that explains nothing in detail, but always seems excited about everything.

      I've seen Bill Nye specials that are more keen on science than this piece of junk... I expected to see it on Fox.

    2. Re:Since when... by HexRei · · Score: 1

      So? They are trying to keep people interested, and special effects and exciting narrative help with that.
      As long as their information remains factually correct, it can only help to broaden their audience.

    3. Re:Since when... by spacecowboy420 · · Score: 1

      I am still trying visualize curled deminsions.........*pop*

      Elegant Universe (the book) is very illuminating, the Nova show does not make some concepts nearly as clear.

      --
      ymmv
    4. Re:Since when... by jma34 · · Score: 1
      I've seen Bill Nye specials that are more keen on science than this piece of junk

      As a physics grad student at UMD, I got emails about this program because one of UMD's professors was was on the program. I was hoping for an interesting science show. I didn't expect much because I generally don't agree with the string theorists, but what I got was two hours of repetative drivel on unification being great and nothing on unification. I could have found out as much about sting theory by watching Eric Clapton play guitar.

    5. Re:Since when... by Waffle+Iron · · Score: 4, Insightful
      They are trying to keep people interested, and special effects and exciting narrative help with that.

      I think that the fact that they had to pack so many effects into the show to keep today's audience interested is mainly a reflection of the sad state of the MTV generation's attention span.

      Actually, I was fine with the visual effects that demonstrated the physics priniciples. Computer graphics are available; why not use them. What stood out to me was the need to keep something, anything moving on the screen at all times. Thus, all the strange sliding panels contantly shuffling back and forth in the background behind the various extra-smart scientists as they talked.

      The producers must have reasoned that the target audience was so used to being fed spinning logos, scrolling textbars, subsecond edit cuts and webpage-like clutter, that if they saw nothing but someone sitting still talking, then they'd assume the TV must somehow be broken.

    6. Re:Since when... by dnahelix · · Score: 2, Funny

      I thought it looked cool.
      You must be old.

      --
      Slashdot Eds Link Anonymous Posts With Logged Posts
      They Are Vermin Feeding On Each Other's Feces.
      I Hate \.
    7. Re:Since when... by October_30th · · Score: 1
      I'm sorry, but there are only two parallel universes: one which is ours and another which is not. On the other hand, there is an infinite number of perpendicular universes so in principle they are correct.

      (Ok, I ripped it off Futurama - sue me)

      --
      The owls are not what they seem
    8. Re:Since when... by mariox19 · · Score: 1

      You are absolutely right. I notice this kind of thing all the time, and it makes me wonder what the hell is going on in the minds of people reared on MTV. This kind of visual busyness just hurts my head: it's too frantic.

      I always think back to the Mr. Wizard show, and compare it to Bill Nye, the Science Guy. "Mr. Wizard" stood there and talked, and used live demonstrations to illustrate a point. The "Science Guy" ricochets from one end of the TV tube to the next, punctuated by BING, BANG, BONG!

      "Oh, the fun of it all!"

      Now that Fred Rogers is dead, the kids growing up today have absolutely no chance at normal cognitive development -- if they watch TV, that is. Everything seems to be a competition as to which show has the shiniest, flashiest objects.

      --

      quiquid id est, timeo puellas et oscula dantes.

    9. Re:Since when... by anthony_dipierro · · Score: 1

      I didn't expect much because I generally don't agree with the string theorists, but what I got was two hours of repetative drivel on unification being great and nothing on unification. I could have found out as much about sting theory by watching Eric Clapton play guitar.

      Heh, that's what I thought after reading The Elegant Universe. Of course, with the ease of playing it in the background (part three is behind this window right now), I'm giving it another try.

      I mean, I exaggerate a bit. So far the PBS program has had much less content than the book. But I attribute it to string theory being a bunch of mathematical masturbation. But of course I don't know anywhere near enough of about physics for that to be anything but a vague notion.

  3. Download? by Prof.Phreak · · Score: 2, Funny

    Is it possible to download? (can someone posts all the links?) BitTorrent?

    --

    "If anything can go wrong, it will." - Murphy

    1. Re:Download? by werdnapk · · Score: 3, Informative

      Part I:
      http://www.logged.org/suprnova/torrents/528/PBS-No va-The.Elegant.Universe-Part.I-Einsteins.Universe- SctV-avi.torrent

      Part II:
      http://www.logged.org/suprnova/torrents/530/PBS-No va-The.Elegant.Universe-Part.II-Strings.the.Thing- SctV-avi.torrent

      Part III:
      http://www.oinkfrickinbaaa.co.uk/suprnova/torrents /537/PBS-Nova-The.Elegant.Universe-Part.III-Welcom e.to.the.11th.Dimension-SctV-avi.torrent

      Remove the spaces from the urls, I don't know why they're there.

    2. Re:Download? by Gherald · · Score: 5, Informative

      The spaces are there because you chose "Plain Old Text" when you posted.

      And third URL doesn't even work, so here are some working and proper links:

      Part I

      Part II

      Part III

    3. Re:Download? by Guppy06 · · Score: 3, Interesting
      "Ever thought downloading and mirroring to Bt might make them want to stop posting this stuff?"

      Possible responses, take your pick:
      • Yeah! How the hell is WBGH going to pay for Nova if we're able to skip the commercials? Oh, wait...
      • Think of all the money WBGH is losing because of third-party mirrors instead of paying for a metric truckload of streaming connections? Er...
      • That content isn't yours! It belongs to PBS, who are paid by... um...
      Seriously, if you're feeling guilty go find your local public television station's URL and give them some money. If you're feeling really guilty, a lot of them in their efforts to raise money will tell you exactly how much it costs to air a single episode of such-and-such (Nova in this case). Donate enough money to cover all of it and I can't see how you wouldn't be justified in mirroring it yourself.
    4. Re:Download? by Uncle+Gropey · · Score: 1

      They've got to be steamed that people are redistributing their free content and lowering their bandwidth charges.

    5. Re:Download? by monadicIO · · Score: 1

      Pardon my ignorance, but what does one do to view .torrent files?

      --

      The law of excluded middle : Either I'm foo or I'm foobar

    6. Re:Download? by Squirrley · · Score: 1

      Yea, what do you use?

      --
      Go on, be afraid. Encourage the terrorists
    7. Re:Download? by berzerke · · Score: 1

      ...i can think of a several reasons why mirroring it would piss them off or make them afraid to post more: the sponsors have logos they expect to be seen by people who go to the site; there's no link to buy the book or dvd on a mirror site...

      You might have a point if the facts didn't contradict you. I looked around on the official site, and didn't see any sponsor logos (other than the PBS and Nova logo). The only link I could find that might lead to a book or DVD was a very small "shop nova" link, something many, perhaps most, people would miss except if they were actively looking for it. This link just points to another site you have to click on. Overall, I think the money they save by having free mirrors (lower bandwidth charges) more than makes up for the small amount they would make off that link.

      ...the mirrors make it harder to know how poular something is and popularity might help them know what to make next...

      Here you have a small point. But the fact is, most people who watch it will either watch on TV or from the main site. The fact people would bother to mirror it gives some indication of its popularity however. Perhaps the next release might even have an offical bit torrent link if they become aware of what bit torrent is. There are lots of people out there that have still never heard of it.

    8. Re:Download? by pgr0ss · · Score: 1
    9. Re:Download? by bloodpet · · Score: 1

      Thanks for Part III.

      --
      Truth is like a shining mirror that's been shattered.
    10. Re:Download? by bloodpet · · Score: 1

      You don't view the torrents, they're used by BitTorrent to download the files. In this case, their avi files, w/c you can view using most any vid viewer. --follow the previous link if you don't have Bittorrent, and keep the window open long after the download's over.

      --
      Truth is like a shining mirror that's been shattered.
    11. Re:Download? by AtariDatacenter · · Score: 1

      Remove the spaces from the urls, I don't know why they're there.

      That's a six dimension string action applied to your post. If you actually watched the film, you'd understand! ;)

    12. Re:Download? by isorox · · Score: 1

      There are lots of people out there that have still never heard of it.

      Theres a lot of people that think its simply the next kazza, including a collegue of mine (a continual bullshitter) who swears the creator went to jail.

  4. Oh for the love of sweet Baby Jesus on a skewer! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Funny

    I'm not even done watching this, and now you filthy, unwashed hellshits are gonna turn WBGH's poor little servers into charcoal briquettes!

    *SIGH*

    Stab-stabbity-stabby-stab!!

  5. I don't have quicktime by Rosco+P.+Coltrane · · Score: 4, Funny

    I guess I'll have to wait for an ascii version ...

    --
    "A door is what a dog is perpetually on the wrong side of" - Ogden Nash
    1. Re:I don't have quicktime by nsingapu · · Score: 1

      Xine has an ascii output plugin, probably other players as well...so technically you wont have to wait though I cannot vouge for the quality

    2. Re:I don't have quicktime by LoneIguana · · Score: 1

      Slightly different though. Xine uses aalib and just renders the video as ascii, you still need to have the proper codec to play it. The star wars thing was actually re-'written' into ascii.

    3. Re:I don't have quicktime by anthony_dipierro · · Score: 1

      Actually, the ascii version will be available here

  6. Do they talk about... by armando_wall · · Score: 1

    ...Darl McBride's mind universe?

    Oh, wait! They said elegant.

  7. Great Show by strictnein · · Score: 4, Informative

    Stumbled upon the show when it aired. As the post states it was a little basic in some parts, but they really lay string theory out. It was the first time I really felt like I had at least a little grasp of the subject.

    The 3D animated scenes around the host were also quite good.

    1. Re: Great Show by gidds · · Score: 2, Interesting
      It was the first time I really felt like I had at least a little grasp of the subject.

      Nothing personal, but if there was no mathematical background, then I'd suggest that at best you have a grasp of the consequences of the theory. Like Relativity, QM, and several other recent developments, if you don't know the maths, then I don't think you really understand it - the underlying reasons for its strangeness, how it was developed, the way it fits into our current understanding of the universe, its internal structure or logic.

      (I include myself in that category, BTW - despite having a maths degree, and having seen some of the basic mathematical theory for both Relativity and QM, I really wouldn't say I understand them.)

      --

      Ceterum censeo subscriptionem esse delendam.

    2. Re: Great Show by wviperw · · Score: 1, Insightful

      Its been said that scientists don't really understand a subject until they can explain it in laymen's terms--IOW, no math, no complex concepts.

      --
      Nothing disturbs me more than blind loyalism towards some unrealistic and over-idealistic notion of one's nationality.
    3. Re: Great Show by joib · · Score: 1

      Perhaps, but that doesn't prove that the layman will understand it after the scientist explains it.

    4. Re: Great Show by Wah · · Score: 1

      Perhaps, but that doesn't prove that the layman will understand it after the scientist explains it.

      Those are incompatible definitions. If the layman can't understand it, the scientist didn't explain it well enough. If the scientist can't explain it well enough in layman's terms, there is a good chance the scientist doesn't understand it either.

      Note, while I agree with the general idea, I'm not saying the above is aboslutely true. Laymen can be pretty dense sometimes.

      --
      +&x
    5. Re: Great Show by Gyan · · Score: 1

      But then, what is a 'complex concept'? That depends awfully on the level of education and assimilation of accepted science in the public consciousness. What was a 'complex concept' in 1600 is everyday "intuitive" knowledge today.
      Would you then deduce that scientists of 1600 didn't understand what they were doing.

      Till a few hundred years ago, scientists were philosphers and vice versa, Then, on the basis of mathematical modeling, science made a leap, where philosophers couldn't catch up. IOW, you had to train as a scientist (formally or otherwise) to participate. The layman was distanced from the scientific transformations taking place. But the disparity wasn't great enough, so scientists could be counted upon to bridge their explanations to layman levels. But, your paraphrased quote implies that the disparity between new scientific concepts and metaphors will always remain within certain bounds from the layman's analytical abilities. There's no reason why this should be. It might be possible to realize new perceptual concepts that aren't described in terms of existing everyday concepts, but in a disconnected parallel way (like QM). However, that wouldn't mean that those scientists don't understand what they're doing.

  8. Re:Oh for the love of sweet Baby Jesus on a skewer by mcpkaaos · · Score: 5, Funny

    In that case, let me tell you how it ends...

    ******* SPOILER WARNING *******

    Eventually, the sun gets really, really hotter and starts to expand. It gets bigger and bigger until it eats up all the other planets. Then, in a fit of bulimic rage, it collapses on itself and turns into a big black hole! And then we all get sucked into it until Robert Forster saves us.

    --
    It goes from God, to Jerry, to me.
  9. Superstring theory by drivelikejehu · · Score: 5, Informative

    Michio Kaku's Hyperspace: A Scientific Odyssey Through Parallel Universes, Time Warps and the Tenth Dimension is a really fascinating introduction into some of the theoretical physics that looks promising to develop a grand unified theory.

    1. Re:Superstring theory by Josh+Booth · · Score: 2, Interesting

      I second that. I own the book and it is really interesting. A book written by a guy that built his own kilowatt particle accelerator from spare wire and junk when he was a teen [?] has got to be pretty good. I'll have to read it again since I haven't read it in years. IIRC, he even was on a Discovery Channel show about physics.

      But then again, I have to finish "Alice in Quantumland", and find my "The God Particle" by Leon Lederman to read again, which is a hillarious and extremely informative book. It is almost a review of Physics from day one -- the Greeks -- to now, in a huge amount of detail. Imagine a 26 page narrative between Leon Lederman and the ancient Greek philosofer Democritus in the Fermilab collider detector late at night, starting with the title Late Night with Lederman! I love the book.

    2. Re:Superstring theory by yomegaman · · Score: 1

      Some of Lederman's jokes are funny, but otherwise I thought "The God Particle" was pretty awful. If you are interested in the history of subatomic physics I highly recommend "Inward Bound" by Abraham Pais. A fantastic narrative by a guy who was there for just about all of it, giving you a flavor of how discoveries are made and interpreted rather than the usual "A leads to B leads to C etc" tone of science books. He also has a biography of Einstein called "Subtle is the Lord" that is well worth your time.

      --
      ...wearing a skin-tight topless leather jumpsuit, with cutaway buttocks and transparent crotch panel.
    3. Re:Superstring theory by Josh+Booth · · Score: 1

      And some Simpsons jokes are pretty awful. As always, one man's +5 Funny is another man's -1 Flamebait.

    4. Re:Superstring theory by funkbrain · · Score: 1

      Hey, I read Leon's book when it came out (I was in high school). Now I'm finishing my PhD at one of the collider experiments at Fermilab (CDF).

      He must have had some impact. Also, now I can refer to a Nobel prize winner by his first name (everyone else does...).

      Anyway, I think popular books like "The God Particle", and shows like the recent Nova series are vital to the mission of science. Not only do they "capture minds," as was my case, they serve to communicate the truths we scientists uncover to our benefactors, The Public.

    5. Re:Superstring theory by ForestGrump · · Score: 1

      that guy used to be on artbell (coast to coast am)
      now where has he gone?

      he also had the theory of various civilizations.
      from abc interview:
      A type one civilization controls all forms of planetary power. They control the weather, earthquakes, volcanoes, and the ocean. A type two civilization controls the power of a star. They can manipulate and play with stars.
      A type three civilization is galactic. They have colonized most of the stars in the galaxy. On this scale, we are type zero -- we get our energy from dead plants, i.e., oil.
      We physicists believe that in a hundred to two hundred years we will attain type one status. However, to have warp drive, you must be an advanced type two, or type three, civilization.
      http://abcnews.go.com/onair/DailyNe ws/chat_kaku112 2.html
      grump

      --
      Is it true that more people vote for the winner of American Idol, than vote for the president? -Ali G.
    6. Re:Superstring theory by tloh · · Score: 3, Informative
      I've been a astro-geek for as long as I can remember. A few years ago, I was blown away after reading "Hyperspace". At the time, I was truly impressed with Prof. Michio Kaku's elequent and penatrating writing style. As far as books on physics goes, my opinion is that his is a head and shoulder above Stephen Hawkings "A Brief History of Time". Unlike Hawking's tome, "Hyperspace" at times reads like a well written novel with an evolving plotline and compeling characters that put a human dimension on our quest for understanding reality.

      That all fell apart a few weeks ago when I came across an archived broadcast on the webpage of the NPR radio show "Science Friday".

      http://www.sciencefriday.com/pages/1997/Sep/hour2_ 090597.html

      Kaku was a guest on a discussion of the safety of Radio-isotope Thermal Generators (RTGs) which coincide with the launch of the much delayed Cassini mission to Saturn. The voice I heard completely floored me with his arrogance and condescension. He spoke about "saving science from the misguided hands of NASA" as a politician who has no appreciation of the hard work NASA engineers have accomplished would. He verbally assulted another science guest on the show as a "fringe" with no qualifications.

      This sounded nothing like the voice of knowledge and wisdom I had come to know in the pages of "Hyperspace". Surely Mr. Kaku must be just having a bad day? I set out to scour the web and find out more rational words from the man. I was disapointed. The most promanent source document I have found on the subject is a speech he delivered at Cape Canaveral.

      http://www.lovearth.org/mkaku.htm

      another more formal and detailed expository:

      http://www.animatedsoftware.com/cassini/mk9708so.h tm

      There is no loss of elegance, and the retoric is as insightful as ever. But after you finish reading them, you realize that he is long on criticism and short on solutions. Furthermore, he completely fails to make any mention of rebuttals (extremely sound and very obvious rebuttals, I might add) to the ideas he is advancing. I can go on about exactly how he leaves us short for many more paragraphs. But I'm off topic as it is so I'll let you pursue that at your own discression.

      Basically, I got the distinct impression that the man is a megalomaniac. It would have been forgivable if he had been an activist in the spirit of Carl Sagan's conservation activities. But it seems this guy, on this particular subject at least, is purely out for attention and will stop at nothing to get it. I find it sad and disapointing when smart people overstep the boundaries of authority or credibility and abuse the trust and admiration the public has given them. Thankfully, I'm not alone. Attached to a blurb at geek.com, the first two comments raise questions about Mr. Kaku views just as I have.

      I am a fan of Dr Kaku (4:26pm EST Fri Jun 27 2003)
      But, I need to respond with a resounding, HUH? to this blurb. Dr. Kaku has giving me invaluable insights into string theory, and his ideaas for public policy are well reasoned and logical, but what's with the report on needed to turn off artificial monkey brains? Heck, I am as liberal and prohuman as the next guy, but I feel that I could really use some murderous sim simians. - by IA my eye

      Quack (5:06pm EST Fri Jun 27 2003)
      I read Visions and had a high opinion of Dr. Kaku, until I realized he was the central figure organizing and supporting the protests against the launch of the Ullyses Saturn Probe.
      He did this because he believed that the RTGs on the probe would contaminate the earth if they re-entered the atmosphere. The probability of this happening is beyond remot

      --
      Stay sentient. Don't drink bad milk.
  10. One of the best points... by tinrobot · · Score: 5, Interesting

    One of the best points of the program was when they discussed whether or not string theory could ever be verified experimentally. If it couldn't, most of the physicists had to put it in the category of philosophy rather than science. Interesting how science and philosophy intersects at times.

    I also liked the part where they explained 'brane theory. I had been reading about it, but could never quite visualize it. The animation really worked for me.

    1. Re: One of the best points... by Black+Parrot · · Score: 1


      > One of the best points of the program was when they discussed whether or not string theory could ever be verified experimentally. If it couldn't, most of the physicists had to put it in the category of philosophy rather than science.

      I'm not sure I agree. There's a role for the "merely descriptive" in science. If string theory gives identical results to relativity + quantum mechanics over all the ranges that we have power to test, but adds the benefit of unifying them into a common framework, then why not accept it?

      So long as we are unable to test two theories in the regions where they diverge, there's absolutely no reason to claim that one is better than the other.

      --
      Sheesh, evil *and* a jerk. -- Jade
    2. Re:One of the best points... by funkbrain · · Score: 1

      I'm a physicist. I often refer to my job (or to the field) as "Applied Philosophy."

    3. Re:One of the best points... by bayduv1n · · Score: 1

      "Interesting how science and philosophy intersects at times."

      Remind me... what does the "Ph" in PhD stand for?

      I liked the series. It raised some interesting questions in me wee lil'ol mind. To start, are these stings the most basic unit of physics or is there some other underlying principle beneath them? For some reason I have the feeling that physics is something like those Russian dolls that keep having smaller ones embedded within.

      Another question... Why 11 demensions? Is this just the number that is needed until we need more? Why not an infinite number? Do we even have the math that can handle this?

      It also seems that the smaller the object we want to observe, the more energy that is needed. At some point won't we be confined to philosophy? Or will we always be able to deduce whats happening beneath by what bubbles to the surface?

      Given that I suck at physics and math, philosophy is all I will ever have.

      Well... back to my regularly scheduled Friday night activity... beer.

    4. Re:One of the best points... by repetty · · Score: 1

      "Interesting how science and philosophy intersects at times." ...but not completely surprising, giving how recently science became a separate and distinct discipline from philosophy.

      As recently has 150-200 years ago, the practitioner of one was almost always a practitioner of the other.

      --Richard

    5. Re: One of the best points... by Jagasian · · Score: 1

      But the theory makes claims outside of those aforementioned areas, which is the whole problem. It is something you must take on faith, which many physicists won't do.

    6. Re: One of the best points... by anthony_dipierro · · Score: 1

      I'm not sure I agree. There's a role for the "merely descriptive" in science. If string theory gives identical results to relativity + quantum mechanics over all the ranges that we have power to test, but adds the benefit of unifying them into a common framework, then why not accept it?

      We already have that common framework. It's called mathematics.

      If string theory holds up as being mathematically correct, then there's no reason not to accept it. Just as calculus helps physicists handle nasty division by zero errors, perhaps string theory can help us handle such problems as QM and relativity are unified. But unless a theory makes disprovable statments, it's not science. Call it math, call it philosophy, call it whatever. It won't be the theory of everything, because it's not a theory in the first place.

    7. Re:One of the best points... by Telex4 · · Score: 1

      Interesting how science and philosophy intersects at times.

      It's well worth remembering that 'science' only started being used as a term a few hundred years ago. Before then, it was considered 'natural philosophy'.

  11. Re:Oh for the love of sweet Baby Jesus on a skewer by drivelikejehu · · Score: 2, Informative

    Too bad our sun isn't the right size/density to become a black whole. More like it'll end up a dwarf of some kind.

  12. Experiment is what counts by mpn14tech · · Score: 4, Informative

    Just remember, no matter how elegant the theory or fascinating this series is, it is just a theory. A big leap of faith. For it to be worth anything, there must be an experimentally verifiable result.

    Personally, I hope we are getting close.

    1. Re:Experiment is what counts by JonMartin · · Score: 1
      "Theory", by (proper) definition, means experimentally verifiable and useful as a predictor. Otherwise it is simply "hypothesis" or even "conjecture".

      The casual use of the word "theory" is a pet peeve of mine, especially when scientists - who should know better - do it. A theory is the top step of the science podium; the vast majority of "theories" we hear about are just hypotheses and conjecture. It confuses the masses and is why we hear dimwits say things like "Well evolution is just a theory." AARRGH!

      The comic strip 9 Chickweed Lane once had an explanation of "theory" that I really like. I can't seem to find it online, but I'm pretty sure I cut it out and saved it...

      --
      Serve Gonk.
    2. Re:Experiment is what counts by yomegaman · · Score: 1

      Well, the experiment has already been done, it's called "The Universe". :-) In seriousness, the length scale at which string theory operates is probably never going to be experimentally accessible. What they are hoping for with string theory is a framework within which all known phenomena, from the subatomic to the cosmological, can be understood and related. The big problem as I (a less-evolved experimenter) understand it is that nobody knows how gravity fits in with everything else, it's just sort of off doing it's own thing according to General Relativity while the rest of the forces are coexisting peacefully in the Standard Model. String theory is supposed to allow you to relate gravity to the others, don't ask me how though...

      --
      ...wearing a skin-tight topless leather jumpsuit, with cutaway buttocks and transparent crotch panel.
    3. Re:Experiment is what counts by Zan+Zu+from+Eridu · · Score: 1
      In seriousness, the length scale at which string theory operates is probably never going to be experimentally accessible.

      It doesn't have to be. According to Popper, a theory is scientific if it is falsifiable, it must make "risky" predictions that could turn out to be false. To prove the theory, you try to disprove the risky predictions; if you don't succeed the theory is proven. So you might never be able to positively verify a theory, however it must be falsifiable to be science. It all comes down to that a theory must really predict something with measurable effects to be useful.

    4. Re:Experiment is what counts by big_groo · · Score: 1
      Riight...like Freud is to Psychology. His theories cannot be verified experimentally, but does anyone doubt that we have an unconscious mind/consciousness? No.

      Face it, science is in it's infancy.

    5. Re:Experiment is what counts by Listen+Up · · Score: 3, Insightful

      One thing that even the people at NOVA have misinterpreted, and I wish they hadn't, is that there is a difference between applied science and pure science. They are not the same.

      I am a pure mathematician and my passion and work is in pure science. What I do is explore pure mathematics. None of my work will most likely ever be directly appliable to experiment. But, some day the work that I do, along with many other mathematicians will provide the foundation, the pure science, which physics will be able to use for experimental understanding. Without pure scientific understanding, experimentation can never be anything more than observation.

      What 'string theory' should be more properly stated as is 'string hypothesis'. It is certainly not yet a true theory and it is certainly not yet a law. Currently, it is purely a hypothetical explanation and possible prediction model. That does not make it any less powerful or less important. Some day it may prove to be the 'bridge' that is needed to complete one more piece or pieces of the grand puzzle. Although, alone it does not need to be experimentally verifiable. And it is certainly not philosophy.

    6. Re:Experiment is what counts by puppet10 · · Score: 1

      However for it to even be pure science rather than simply mathmatics or philosophy it needs to be testable in some way. It might not be testable with current technology or method, but it has to be falsifiable to be science.

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    7. Re:Experiment is what counts by yomegaman · · Score: 1

      I agree that what you describe is ideally the way things should work, but string theory is dealing in a sort of "forensic" science, in which it's not really possible to recreate the experiment under different conditions and test predictions. All we have is our one trial, and the test of the theory is really that it provides a plausible mechanism for things turning out the way they did (which would be a tremendous advance compared to the current state of affairs). At the risk of starting a giant offtopic flamewar I'd say it's in a similar situation to natural selection. Nobody really knows or will ever know if that's what happened, but that doesn't make it invalid science. You have to play the cards you're dealt, and we just don't have the right hand to answer some types of questions definitively.

      --
      ...wearing a skin-tight topless leather jumpsuit, with cutaway buttocks and transparent crotch panel.
    8. Re:Experiment is what counts by Jagasian · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Mathematics is not science. It is mathematics. Math is its own thing, and unless you take an extreme Platonic foundation of mathematics... math is not explored, it is created. That is, math is simply about pure mental constructions, and doesn't necessarily have any connection to the "outside world" or "reality".

      As a fan of math myself (I am currently playing with non-well-founded axiomatic set theory), it irks me when people claim that math is a science, or has applications as its purpose. Similarly, it is bothersome when people bring religious concepts such as the Platonic Realm into math.

      The very intent of math is to have certainty, not faith in the external existence of mathematical objects - somehow independent and trancendental apart from our minds.

      Who knows, maybe these theories do exist independently from our thought, but we can't confirm this. However, we can confirm our own thought's existence, and therefore math should be founded on such a thing.

      String Theory is either a religion or philosophy in that it makes a claim about reality based on nothing other than faith. It is just as valid a science as creationism. I do find String Theory to be more interesting though as it makes use of interesting math :)

    9. Re:Experiment is what counts by pavon · · Score: 1

      Really bad example. Almost all psycologists consider Freuds work to be completely bogus, except for the parts that were already well founded before he came along.

    10. Re:Experiment is what counts by 0x0d0a · · Score: 1

      Spot on.

      The entire point of mathematics is to produce perfect but abstract models. In some cases, these models are produced with no consideration for actual application. This is the job of the mathematician. He sets down a set of axioms, and granted those axioms, makes known-true claims about models. His claims are not "true" because they have anything to do with reality, but because they follow a commonly accepted set of axioms. The logician is a mathematician. Technically a statician is as well, but since statistics are usually used in an applied manner (a la science), it tends not to be found in math departments.

      The philosopher (well, there are a lot of types of philosopher, but I like just going for the analytic ones and dumping all those ethicists :-) ) works with the next closest field. He deals with knowledge about *reality* given some set of (usually) precisely defined axioms. His work is inherently relevant to reality, but not necessary particularly useful.

      The scientist (distinct from *all* these) produces knowledge about what models currently are *believed to best apply* to reality given a (not precisely defined, but generally accepted among most folks) set of axioms. The scientist is not interested in absolute truth -- he deals with our current best guesses about reality.

      A "pure" scientist is still part of this process...he just proposes models for use in representing reality that may not be easily testable, and may be "better" than other models only more subtle rules, like Ockham's Razor.

    11. Re:Experiment is what counts by Zan+Zu+from+Eridu · · Score: 1
      All we have is our one trial, and the test of the theory is really that it provides a plausible mechanism for things turning out the way they did (which would be a tremendous advance compared to the current state of affairs).

      This is no different from big-bang and other early universe theories in cosmology. These theories are scientific because they make predictions about the current state of the universe that are falsifiable (CBR intensity and stuff like that), but we can never recreate the original "experiment" for those theories either.

      Just like in cosmology, string theory does not only have to provide a plausible explanation for things turning out the way they did, it has to show why this explanation is plausible by being falisifiable, elegance alone simply is not enough.

    12. Re:Experiment is what counts by skywire · · Score: 1

      I realize the danger of starting another great war on the nature of math here, but I think I may be able to help the poster understand the error of his strong anti-Platonist claim that "math is not explored, it is created". I will not dispute here the weaker claim that math "doesn't necessarily have any connection to "the outside world" or "reality"".

      Fortunately, while he skates dangerously close to the absurd anti-logical position that many hold today (as in "On Mars, the Martians may have decided that 2 plus 2 is 3, rather than 4") when he characterizes math as existing only in our minds or our thought (and not externally or independently), he definitely does not go there. He is definitely on the side of logic and certainty. And that is why he should also accept that math is explored. Not that mathematical concepts exist physically in the way that my computer monitor exists, but that even before we explore the far reaches of the theorems that follow from our axioms, those theorems already are true even before we discover them, and even if we all died today, tomorrow they would still be true, pehaps waiting for some Martian to discover them. If he means by "it is created" that we have choices about what directions we build out our knowledge in the space of theorems, I can certainly agree. We finite beings will never be able to follow all the pathways, and will no doubt miss whole fabulous areas of mathematical knowledge. In a sense, the mathematician is creating. But if that is taken far enough to deny the exploration aspect, it is overstated.

      By the way, it is curious how, despite his strong anti-Platonic bent, and his disagreement with those who "claim that math is a science", he nevertheless turns around and criticizes those who see math as having "applications as its purpose". Let me finish the sentence for him: "rather than the search for knowledge as an end in itself, that is, pure science".

      --
      Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety.
    13. Re:Experiment is what counts by Jagasian · · Score: 1

      Math is its own purpose. So why is it wrong for me to criticize Platonism in math, as well as forcing math to have applications? Math, of course, has many applications, but that is because by its very nature, it deals with pure concepts, pure ideas. So when we want to structure how we think about something, one of the things we can turn to is math.

      Also considering that math typically comes packaged with formal systems, this also means that along with structured thought, you have a language to describe that thought. Hence math by its nature is very useful for applications, but we are sophisticated enough these days to appreciate ideas for their own sake.

      One of these aspects is called "mathematician's nirvana", which is used to describe the intense satisfaction one gets from understanding a mathematical construction.

      Platonism in math blinds us from seeing the distinction between constructive and non-constructive math, amongst causing other more philosophical problems that I referred to earlier. For example, the clash between L.E.J. Brouwer and other mathemamticians of his time. Even David Hilbert agreed that math was a exercise of pure thought (but he still wanted to formalise it). This recognition allows one to see the need for a constructive logic as opposed to a Platonic logic.

      I agree with you that future space aliens will most likely also create the same pure concepts (i.e. math) has I have or you have or some other human has... but I cannot know this for sure. Hence I cannot found math on such a foundation.

      In some senses it is a trivial semantics difference, but I think the difference is important for motivating mathematicians. I would see a mathematician's work as being closely related to a writer of fiction novels. The writer works with ideas and a symbolic language. Writers don't write for applications, well of course many do, but you wouldn't claim that is the goal of writers. Writers write to create novels, not to discover them.

      The writer's creation, the novel, might have applications such as entertainment (just like math), education, political statement, etc... But writing's purpose isn't necessarily anyone of these applications, nor is it the union of them all. We aren't hunter-gatherers anymore - a writer can write for the love of writing.

    14. Re:Experiment is what counts by angel'o'sphere · · Score: 1


      Just remember, no matter how elegant the theory or fascinating this series is, it is just a theory. A big leap of faith. For it to be worth anything, there must be an experimentally verifiable result.

      This is silly and not insightfull/informative, sorry.
      At first: you seem to get the word "theory" wrong. There is no: "It is *JUST* a theroy". A theory is a *LOT*.
      Second: you do not use experimental verifiable results to *proof* a theory. You use experiments to falsify it, first.
      What do you think what Einsteins Theory of Quantum Gravity or Standar Relativity is? Its just a theory? Isn't it?
      Theorys are the foundation of sciense, just like an axiom is the foundation of math. While an axiom cant be proved true or wrong, a theory could be prooved wrong.
      As long as no other theory in competition to string, superstring or brane theories gets experimental more back ground, all are similar true.
      Back to the experimental part. Before you try to find experiments which will give a theory a experimental foundation, you try to find experiments disprooving it. Hint, for disprooving (falsifying)a theory you only need *ONE* experiment. Proofing is nearly imposiible as you need to find an experiment for every aspect of the theory.

      So: a theory is an idea where no one so far was able to find an experiment which falsifies it.

      This is quite a *LOT* considering how many people try to falsify it ... and definitly not *JUST* a theory.

      angel'o'sphere

      --
      Cost free eBook I read (by iBook/Kobo/Amazon/ObookO/Gutenberg etc.): "The Green Odyssey" by Philip Jose Farmer.
    15. Re:Experiment is what counts by Listen+Up · · Score: 1

      Actually, mathematics is based on fundamental 'truths', none of which are philosophical. For example, the existence of nothingness, or the empty set, the existence of zero, the existence of a group and a ring (mathematical ring), the basic constructions of addition, subtraction, division, multiplication, and inverses.

      All future mathematics is based on previous mathematics. It is a pure abstraction of what is both observable in the physical world and what is purely conceptual in their relationships. Mathematics is one of the last 'pure science' to remain on this Earth. The exploration, discovery, and extention of mathematics is a science in and of itself. You cannot 'create' mathematics on a whim, as it cannot break the proven logical confines in which everything exists. If it does so, then it is not correct mathematics, it is simply a false construction signifying nothing.

      As an interesting point you seem unaware of, many of the mathematical models which have come to describe our understanding of our universe has come from physical experimentation. Now, mathematics in and of itself is purely thought. But, when pure thought correctly describes a physical event and predicts physical events in the future...is that not proof enough that mathematics and it eventual correlation to physical reality are one in the same?

      Now, let's look at it this way. The universe follows a set of rules. Outside of the human mind, the universe is not ruled by mysticism or thought. So, a system such as mathematics would have to exist in some form, no matter what. And it has, as a matter of fact, existed since the beginning of man. Our universe is ordered and to be able to understand the universe an ordered system based on universally fundamental ordered rules would have to exist to explain it.

      As a pure mathematician, my passion is pure mathematics. The puzzle pieces to the understanding and explanation of everything.

      Cheers.

  13. Most Pleasing Math ive seen by unixbum · · Score: 1, Redundant

    We need more publications like this, this was the most well done documentary ive *ever* seen. Kudos to PBS/Nova and now its online, we need more like this

  14. The coolest by bigjnsa500 · · Score: 2, Insightful

    I loved this program when it aired. BUT, the coolest thing on the planet will go to the fist d00d or gal who puts a torrent available for each or all episodes ;) What a thing to do on a Friday night.

    --
    This is a test. This is a test of the emergency sig system. This has been only a test.
    1. Re:The coolest by bigjnsa500 · · Score: 1

      While watching History Channel, yeah I'm a loser, I ordered the DVD plus 448 book set. I can wait until January ;) Everyone should order it. String Theory r00lz!!

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      This is a test. This is a test of the emergency sig system. This has been only a test.
  15. xine problem. by cgranade · · Score: 2, Funny

    xine tells me that it can't play these because they're in "gif video format," something that seems unlikely. Any advice?

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    #define DRM chmod 000

    1. Re:xine problem. by blixel · · Score: 2, Informative

      xine tells me that it can't play these because they're in "gif video format," something that seems unlikely. Any advice?

      Do you have the right codecs?

    2. Re:xine problem. by jovlinger · · Score: 1

      they're not video, but rather pointers to video streams. PITA, in other words.

    3. Re:xine problem. by m2h · · Score: 1

      Oh you are good. :) Many thanks. I had just posted about trying to figure out the stream links. I didn't get anywhere as close as you did, started hitting walls. Excellent job indeed. :)

      --
      misundstood by most, hated by some, loved by few.
  16. Einstein's Wife by C60 · · Score: 5, Interesting

    When The Elegant Universe aired here locally, PBS followed it by another noteworthy program called Einstein's Wife, which questions wether Einstein was alone in his creation of the Theory of Relativity as well as several other papers, or if he was in fact aided by his first wife Mileva who was as insightful into the universe as Einstein himself.
    This program gives an interesting look into the human side of Einstein (never imagined him as a romantic), as well as a lot of issues of the day. While it doesn't delve into the physics, it does serve to illustrate Einstein's life in a much different manner than I've previously seen. It's a fascinating program and well worth a look.
    Einstein's Wife

    --
    Karma: 0 (But I wield a mean +10 Vorpal Apathy)
    1. Re: Einstein's Wife by Black+Parrot · · Score: 2, Interesting


      > When The Elegant Universe aired here locally, PBS followed it by another noteworthy program called Einstein's Wife, which questions wether Einstein was alone in his creation of the Theory of Relativity as well as several other papers, or if he was in fact aided by his first wife Mileva who was as insightful into the universe as Einstein himself.

      Yes, a very interesting show... unfortunately I only caught about half of it.

      To add a bit of detail, the show said that Mileva and Albert were listed as co-authors in the original publication of the paper on (special?) relativity, but her name was removed from later editions. The various people interviewed differed in opinion as to whether she was his peer or "merely a sounding board" for his ideas. (In addition to being his playmate, either way.)

      --
      Sheesh, evil *and* a jerk. -- Jade
  17. Re:Oh for the love of sweet Baby Jesus on a skewer by mcpkaaos · · Score: 1

    You're probably right. It'll probably just end up some black portion.

    --
    It goes from God, to Jerry, to me.
  18. From one of those Lay People . . . by CleverNickName · · Score: 4, Interesting

    I loved ths book that this series is based upon, and it complimented Kaku's Hyperspace to guide me to a better understanding of Life, The Universe and Everything. (Yes, despite what you may have seen on TV, I know next to nothing about complex quantum theory).

    I watched the Nova series with my stepson, and it reminded me of watching Cosmos with my parents. The production values were fantastic, too. This show may be beneath the average /. reader, but for lamers like me, it was awesome.

    1. Re:From one of those Lay People . . . by Night+Goat · · Score: 1

      I think the average Slashdot reader is a lamer. I know I am!

  19. Brian Greene by squarooticus · · Score: 3, Interesting

    I was an undergraduate student of Brian Greene's (honors freshman mechanics) at Cornell. I was very impressed by the Nova special, as having read The Elegant Universe several years ago, I found the special explained many elements of M-theory more clearly. In person, he was quite affable, and even seemed to take my freshman idol worship in stride. I'm happy to see he's gotten the kind of popular (ok, *more* popular than usual) admiration he deserves.

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    [ home ]
  20. I tried to order the DVD set by bigjnsa500 · · Score: 4, Insightful
    So instead of waiting for torrents, I tried to order the DVD set plus book. Now they are telling me it'll be released January 2004. I might as well wait for the torrents and make my own DVD. I have it sooner than that!

    Still, I'd rather buy the $32 DVD set. Hey its good television. Support PBS!

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    This is a test. This is a test of the emergency sig system. This has been only a test.
    1. Re:I tried to order the DVD set by bigjnsa500 · · Score: 1

      I still ordered the DVD plus book set. $32 is really cheap for this quality of programming.

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      This is a test. This is a test of the emergency sig system. This has been only a test.
    2. Re:I tried to order the DVD set by Prof.Phreak · · Score: 1

      btw, amazon has it for $20.97

      --

      "If anything can go wrong, it will." - Murphy

    3. Re:I tried to order the DVD set by Prof.Phreak · · Score: 1

      opps... I didn't realize it was dvd + book.

      --

      "If anything can go wrong, it will." - Murphy

  21. Re:Oh for the love of sweet Baby Jesus on a skewer by OmnipotentEntity · · Score: 2, Informative

    Any massive object has a Swartzchild radius. You could theoretically make the sun a black hole. You could theorectially make yourself a black hole (it'd be smaller than an atom and would instantly explode into pure energy, but it could be done.)

    The sun is too small to form a black hole on it's own though, not enough gravitational force. But you *could* make a black hole out of it.

    I'm such a pedant.

    --
    "Build a man a fire warm him for a day, set a man on fire and warm him for the rest of his life."
  22. If you would like to download the videos... by bobdotorg · · Score: 2, Informative

    OK, it took a bit of minor sleuthing, but if you would like to DL the raw videos here's a link to the first one:

    http://stream.qtv.apple.com/qtv/wgbh/http/nova_e u/ nova_eu_3012c01_hi_100.mov

    --
    __ Someday, but not this morning, I'll finally learn to use the preview button.
    1. Re:If you would like to download the videos... by bobdotorg · · Score: 1

      Oops - first, Slashdot lamenessly placed a space in the URL just before nova_eu_3012c01_hi_100.mov

      Second, once the movie finished loading I did not have the option of saving as a quicktime file.

      However, I found an easy workaround - use Netscape to load the link, and then pluck and rename the file from your Netscape cache folder. Each movie is about 17MB in size.

      --
      __ Someday, but not this morning, I'll finally learn to use the preview button.
    2. Re:If you would like to download the videos... by injustice_sucks · · Score: 2, Informative

      Try this:

      curl http://a388.g.akamai.net/5/388/142/3f9e93f2/1a1a1a fb6ae049ae214fc034aad839a91985ea187bea5786f362d841 a61948bf2688f01f87fb6fdf0e7ceb61c22186fb/nova_eu_3 01{2,3,4}c0[1-8]_hi_100.mov -O

    3. Re:If you would like to download the videos... by Hatta · · Score: 1

      any chance you'll help us with the rest of the series? bittorrent is useless on my crappy asymmetric cable connection.

      --
      Give me Classic Slashdot or give me death!
    4. Re:If you would like to download the videos... by Jon+Abbott · · Score: 1

      Strangely, the movies that download with your link are different than the ones that play when I just play the movies through the browser. I'm playing the Quicktime version, so it shouldn't be any different. To test this, I went into /tmp/501/Temporary Items/ under OS X and copied the resulting QTPluginTemp file to 1.mov, and compared to the movies provided by your link. The version I'm getting through my browser is MPEG-4 all the way, with 32kHz stereo audio, while the movies via your link are encoded with Sorenson 3 video, and QDesign audio at 22.05 kHz mono. The video resolution and quality are roughly the same, but the audio is noticeably different.

      I guess the moral of the story is that if you want better quality, you have to manually copy each file from out of your /tmp directory. :^)

      (I should note that if you want a lot better quality, you should just buy the DVD set instead...)

    5. Re:If you would like to download the videos... by Jon+Abbott · · Score: 1

      Nevermind my previous post, here is another curl command that grabs the MP4 Quicktime movies instead...

    6. Re:If you would like to download the videos... by loraksus · · Score: 1

      get shadow's bt client, and set your upload rate.

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      1q2w3e4r5t6y7u8i9o0pqawsedrftgthyjukilo;p'azsxdcfv gbhnjmk,l.;/
  23. Comment removed by account_deleted · · Score: 1

    Comment removed based on user account deletion

  24. BitTorrent links by Saeger · · Score: 2, Informative
    Here's the BitTorrent links to the same thing, except that it's in three convenient 300MB divx parts.

    --

    --
    Power to the Peaceful
    1. Re:BitTorrent links by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Informative

      Too bad none of those links seem to work... heres a few that work (direct torrent file links):

      Part 1
      Part 2
      Part 3

    2. Re:BitTorrent links by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Informative

      Argh just noticed the 3rd link is the one that doesnt work.. here fixed:

      Part 3

      Sorry about that.

      Oh and just one more thing: If possible, still buy the DVD when it comes out, support PBS.. It comes out in january and im gonna buy it

    3. Re:BitTorrent links by J-B0nd · · Score: 1

      Mod parent up! I need some faster download speeds :)

    4. Re:BitTorrent links by Guppy06 · · Score: 1

      "That is the illegal pirate version and not the official PBS release."

      Pirating public broadcasting... but if... and... yet... er... my head hurts!

  25. torrents by frogsarefriendly · · Score: 3, Informative

    Part I
    Part II
    Part III
    More downloaders, the better!

  26. DVD/VHS by dissy · · Score: 2, Informative

    Can't help with a full download, but if you would concider supporting PBS for shows like this, you can buy it on DVD and VHS at the link below.

    http://shop.wgbh.org/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/Cat alogSearchResultView?storeId=11051&catalogId=10051 &langId=-1&pageSize=20&searchText=elegant+universe

  27. Bigtime KUDOS to PBS on Sting Theory series. by zymano · · Score: 3, Interesting

    It was EXCELLENT.

    It is a must download if you missed it because they explain string theory and what might have occured at the moment of the big bang or even if there was one. Nice explanations and good visual examples.

    One of the best Pbs shows in years.

    Now all we need is a once a week, one hour show about leading edge Sciences and Technology.

  28. It should compress very well... by Ben+Jackson · · Score: 1, Funny

    I remember watching it on TV and they used every graphic about 5 times and repeated every concept at least 3 times. The compressed video will be tiny!

  29. Torrents by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Informative

    Posted again because the other guy got the last link wrong.

    Part 1


    Part 2

    Part 3

  30. Quicktime & Real Player... by whackco · · Score: 1

    Major funding for NOVA is provided by the Park Foundation, Sprint, and Microsoft You would think they would have included a WMP link. Guess they are trying diversity without favoritism? Having boycotted those two choices, I guess I'll have to wait till their sponser raises an eyebrow.

  31. Re:People who use Real Player - try this by Hatta · · Score: 1

    mplayer does real video just fine.

    --
    Give me Classic Slashdot or give me death!
  32. The Fink connection by hysterion · · Score: 4, Interesting
    If you've read the book, you may have noticed among the scientists whose contributions are described at length David Morrison, who may be better known around here as co-leader of the Fink project.

    That goes to show that pretty bright minds are working on Free Software, doesn't it? And suggests what could be a very interesting (though probably quite busy) Slashdot interviewee... I will admit I'm curious to know what drew him to that level of participation in Free Software.

    I was pleased to note that dissenting views on whether string theory was science were presented, and even brief discussion of what constitutes science.
    Having participated as a "pure mathematician", I guess he might be well-placed to explain that one can do science without a need for immediate applications or even ties to "experiment".

    (I saw the man once in Park City, Utah -- no, he wouldn't remember me -- busy with a PowerBook, and at the time helping launch another noteworthy open project, the UC Davis Math Archive.)

    Slashdot editors?

    1. Re:The Fink connection by hysterion · · Score: 1
      by Park City, you mean the "Quantum Field Theory and Enumerative Geometry" program?

      No, no, it was another program about six years ago and he wasn't even there as a speaker, except (IIRC!) for a report on the ArXiv thing. And at the time, I wouldn't have even known he might be autograph-worthy to anyone :-)

  33. Tell them.... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Informative

    I know people who worked on this project and they worked a lot of long nights trying hard to do it as well as they could. The obvious thing to say is that your financial support of your PBS station helps make these things possible.

    Feedback from users is also really important.

    If this kind of content is valuable to you, PBS, WGBH and the folks at NOVA need to hear from you directly. Tell them specifically what you do and don't like about the site and the show and how you use it.

    http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/feedback/

    1. Re:Tell them.... by bigjnsa500 · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Dude, NOVA should be on everyone's *geek* list of TV shows to watch. I will gladly spend $32 (DVD + book) to support this program. Along with it and Frontline makes PBS worth watching.

      --
      This is a test. This is a test of the emergency sig system. This has been only a test.
    2. Re:Tell them.... by Uncle+Gropey · · Score: 1

      They may get a hint that their content is (rightfully) popular by being Slashdotted. What greater honor to the creators than having their servers turned into boiling goo?

    3. Re:Tell them.... by blair1q · · Score: 1

      Nova has pretty much sucked for a long time. For a while, it seemed to be shilling for the drug industry. And then doing political stuff, and soft science.

      I have the String Theory episode on my ReplayTV, but haven't watched it yet. I'm sure this will be a little more informative than the usual recent Nova, but it's never going to live up to the days of Philip Morrison narrating the Cosmic Background Radiation episode.

  34. Can't seem to get a non-stream URL by Mikey-San · · Score: 1

    Can anyone find non-stream URLs for the QuickTime versions of these movies? I'd love to post them to the cURL blog here:

    http://www.superdeluxo.com/wget_curl/

    --
    Mikey-San
    Karma: +Eleventy billion (mostly affected by watching Celebrity Jeopardy)
  35. Wow man! You just took the most acid... by disc-chord · · Score: 5, Interesting

    I also liked the part where they explained 'brane theory. I had been reading about it, but could never quite visualize it. The animation really worked for me.

    Yes they really did a tremendous job really bringing everything to life in visual terms. Most people find it hard thinking in terms of 4 dimensions, let alone 11. The whole series had a very professional presentation and did a good job of being interesting, while not resorting to cheap Cheech and Chong LSD effects.

    While I have no real background education in physics, I naturally have the strong human curiousity of where we're from and where we're going. I watched this show in awe. It really did a great job of demonstrating all of the history and evolution of the theories as well as how to really understand what string theory is all about.

    PBS and NOVA really earned their keep on this one.

  36. Truly Excellent! by Mister+Transistor · · Score: 4, Informative

    This was a superb series! I enjoyed it thoroughly, as did most of my colleagues.

    I snagged the 3 episodes on my hand-dandy video capture box and mastered a DVD from them, compressing the 3 hours onto 1 DVD.

    I'm glad they're making the whole thing available online; it makes me feel better about giving my buddy a copy of my DVD...

    He missed the second episode - the series had such a loooong (2:48) introduction, he thought they were re-airing the 1st episode again and turned it off! I told him no - there were 2 different episodes aired back-to-back :)

    All-in-all, while I agree it was a bit "lay" (non-technical) in nature, it did explain a few things I hadn't known about previously, so I did enjoy watching it.

    --
    -- You are in a maze of little, twisty passages, all different... --
  37. Comment removed by account_deleted · · Score: 1

    Comment removed based on user account deletion

  38. "MTV fluff" ... I was thinking "Electric Company" by purplejacket · · Score: 3, Interesting

    I watched this show and I was all hyped up to see it. The first hour discussed almost nothing but review. Don't get me wrong, though I have two math degrees my physics knowledge is only very general from reading and one (goofy) freshman physics course. I guess you could say I've read enough to be dangerous :)

    The show does give an overview of string theory but it's definitely the PG version. When they were talking about M-Theory (which I read about in Hawking's most recent book) they had these big old letter M's popping out of people's mouths! I was thinking: "Ok, this is PBS, maybe they have a bit too much of that 'Sesame Street' or 'Electric Company' (remember that show?) influence."

    The visuals were good, and that kind of intuition is helpful. For instance, at the plank scale they had a drum beat to the chaotic dance of the cosmic substrate (or whatever you call it) and I loved it. Also, they had a little broken clock indicating that you can't tell before from after nor left from right because things are so shaky down there. So here's the one substantive thing I walked away from the show with: String theory calms the action at this 10^-43 scale. I wish I wish I wish they would have told me a little more about HOW!

    I think Sagan's "Cosmos" had a tad more dignity. I enjoyed "The Elegant Universe" and don't regret watching it but probably won't watch it again.

  39. I can't wait for by AndreyF · · Score: 2, Insightful

    This program seems to be the new hip intellectual thing to talk about at my school (highschool)... really shows how dumb people are I think... Not that I didn't enjoy it, it's great "infotainment", it's just that anyone with any calc knowledge can go a much longer way into understanding this stuff if they look at better sources (the book for one)...

    1. Re:I can't wait for by Asacarny · · Score: 1

      I just watched two chapters and I have to say they do a great job explaining some concepts that were very confusing to me. That it takes a show like this one to make people interested does not show that people are dumb, rather it shows how tough the physics can be. I would give the so called "intellectuals" at your school a little more credit. Why don't you use your "calc knowledge" to show them what the program missed? If they don't want to listen, then maybe you're right and it was just for the infotainment. Consider that they might not really care much about physics, but that this program was so good it got them interested. (IMHO: Great job Nova!!)

  40. The Non-Stream URLs by Joel+Carr · · Score: 1

    Someone posted them earlier on you can find there post ::here::

    ---

    --
    Any man who can drive safely while kissing a pretty girl is simply not giving the kiss the attention it deserves. -- AE
  41. Comment removed by account_deleted · · Score: 1

    Comment removed based on user account deletion

  42. spaces in urls by barakn · · Score: 1
    Remove the spaces from the urls, I don't know why they're there

    They come from the width of your text box, which in your case is 50 columns (the default). You can change that in your user Preferences under the Comments tab. However, it is rather rude to use plain text. One person saving time by not making links clickable wastes the time of the many people who want to use the link.

    --
    "I'm so moist I'm sticking to the leather." -Kermit the Frog on The Late Late Show
    1. Re:spaces in urls by Alrescha · · Score: 1

      "However, it is rather rude to use plain text. One person saving time by not making links clickable wastes the time of the many people who want to use the link."

      I'm sorry, but in my world it is the computer's job to make the links clickable, not me. That's what it's for, after all.

      A.

      --
      ...bringing you cynical quips since 1998
    2. Re:spaces in urls by Gyorg_Lavode · · Score: 1

      *cough*spoiled*cough*

      --
      I do security
    3. Re:spaces in urls by pmsyyz · · Score: 1

      I agree.

      $comment =~ s!(\w+://[^\s]*)!<a href="$1">$1</a>!gi;
      --
      Phillip
  43. Re:i have to agree....somewhat by deglr6328 · · Score: 1

    As a (non degree) physics buff, I too have to agree that the first 2 hours were disappointing and too fluff filled (oooo..the QUANTUM cafe with Greene eating a donut and walking through walls to demonstrate Heisenberg uncertainty!! .... way too cornball and almost patronizing). However the third hour (on the next week) was actually pretty redeeming, explaining some things on m-theory and how string theory supposedly predicts Supersmmetry which with its Neutralinos and Photinos should be experimentally verifiable with the new Tev scale colliders coming on in the next few years (LHC et. al.) and how this will help explain dark matter. That was really interesting and exciting.

    --
    - "Hear that?! The percolations are imminent! Cease your ingress!"
  44. If you can't explain it to a layperson by frenchgates · · Score: 1

    then you don't really understand it. Right? Discuss...

    --
    Syntax error: loose != lose, affect != effect, then!=than
  45. And for those without a VCR... by webhat · · Score: 2, Informative
    ... akamai provides download links here

    http://a768.g.akamai.net/5/768/142/3f9e9589/1a1a1a fb6ae049ae214fc034aad839a91985ea187bea5786f362d841 a61948bf2688f01f87fb6fdf0e7ceb61c22186fb/nova_eu_3 012c01_mp4_300.mov

    Where the first bold part is episode numbers 12-14 and the second the part numbers from 01-08. Between 20-26Mb each...

    --
    'I am become Shiva, destroyer of worlds'
    1. Re:And for those without a VCR... by AGTiny · · Score: 1

      Excellent, so simply run:
      curl copy me -o universe#1_#2.mov

    2. Re:And for those without a VCR... by aelfwyne · · Score: 1

      Wow, someone finally posts a curl link here that works.... This should be modded up!

      --
      -- If it ain't broke - overclock it more.
  46. Physics 101b by Deflater+Mouse · · Score: 1

    Physics for Arts Students for Phys Ed. Majors

    And then the gravity falls right off the bread! er, universe!

  47. Re:Dangerous for his career by barakn · · Score: 1
    For example, Carl Sagan did way too much popular science, and for this reason he was not elected a member of the NAS for many years.

    My source for the following:

    He [was] the 1994 recipient of the Public Welfare Medal, the highest award of the National Academy of Sciences for "distinguished contributions in the application of science to the public welfare." Dr. Sagan received the NASA Medals for Exceptional Scientific Achievement and for Distinguished Public Service twice, as well as the NASA Apollo Achievement Award. Asteroid 2709 Sagan is named after him. He was also given the John F. Kennedy Astronautics Award of the American Astronautical Society, the Explorers Club 75th Anniversary Award, the Konstantin Tsiolokovsky Medal of the Soviet Cosmonautics Federation, and the Masursky Award of the American Astronomical Society. Dr. Sagan served as Chairman of the Division of Planetary Sciences of the American Astronomical Society, as President of the Planetology Section of the American Geophysical Union, and as Chairman of the Astronomy Section of the American Association for the Advancement of Science. For 12 years, he was Editor in Chief of Icarus, the leading professional journal devoted to planetary research. He was the co-founder and first President of The Planetary Society and a Distinguished Visiting Scientist at the Jet Propulsion Laboratory, California Institute of Technology. At the time of his death on December 20, 1996, he served as the David Duncan Professor of Astronomy and Space Sciences and Director of the Laboratory for Planetary Studies at Cornell University.

    Science needs more people like him. I've been trolled, haven't I?

    --
    "I'm so moist I'm sticking to the leather." -Kermit the Frog on The Late Late Show
  48. Einstein the romantic by snStarter · · Score: 1

    You might want to try Gordon Lightman's "Einstein's Dreams" to get a different experience. I found the visions compelling.

  49. Re:From one of those Lay People . . .American BBC. by kalidasa · · Score: 1

    And do the snail mail BitTorrent. Buy those DVDs. WGBH store

  50. NOVA gone wrong by snStarter · · Score: 1, Insightful

    I'm surprised that the slash-dot group really liked this series. I know I found it frothy, heavy on the ol' special effects (I had the feeling that SOMEONE in the production team got a new non-linear editing system and just absolutely had to play with every possible feature). The first installment was by far the strongest.

    I've disliked Nova increasingly over the past few years - all the re-enactments (Gallileo for example) - they've gotten all touchy-feely. I have this awful thought that liberal-arts people, who are intrinsicly afraid of technology, would rather do dramas than do hard looks at science.

    1. Re:NOVA gone wrong by aber · · Score: 1

      My sentiments exactly. At least 60% of the show was about distracting irrelevant special effects.

      Most documentaries nowadays seem much more interested in gathering audience points than in improving understanding of a topic.

    2. Re:NOVA gone wrong by ph43thon · · Score: 1

      Go here

      It's a much more interesting collection of information on string theory. A slide show/audio collection and a video. There's even a section of the main site that explains the branches of mathematics you need to know to actually understand superstrings.



      p

  51. Dissenting views on Science? by Laconian · · Score: 1, Troll

    Are there any dissenting views on Science itself? Because I know there are a lot of Creation Scientists that have an axe to grind with blasphemous atheist constructs like the "Scientific Method". REVOKE PBS' FEDERAL FUNDING! THE STATE IS SQUELCHING RELIGION WITH ITS SECULAR POISON!

    1. Re:Dissenting views on Science? by tloh · · Score: 1

      Real self-respecting scientists don't grind axes.

      go away

      --
      Stay sentient. Don't drink bad milk.
    2. Re:Dissenting views on Science? by lambsonic · · Score: 1

      Actually, the scientific method is not built upon logic. Induction is empirical. It deals with both induction and deduction, but ultimately it is empirical. Deduction should not trump induction. That is a common mistake of religions where deduction is encouraged fanatically so long as the premise is scriptural.

      --
      # make clean sig
    3. Re:Dissenting views on Science? by Laconian · · Score: 1

      THANK you. Jesus, people need to stop interpreting everything at literal face value.

  52. Yeah. by luekj · · Score: 1
    I saw some of it, that host gave me the creeps.

    Seems like he had some kind've evil takeoverthierminds agenda. And I mean, there's these stupid previews where it is saying "The next einstien is hosting the documentary you are watching". That made me think twice about his credibility.

    --
    Many Thanks,

    Luke

  53. Re:i have to agree....somewhat by Skjellifetti · · Score: 1

    I skipped the third one. Maybe I should watch it. Everything in the first two hours could have been said in ten minutes:

    There are the 4 forces of the apoclypse and everyone thinks that they are probably related, but since no one could figure out how gravity fit in with the other three, unification became a backwater of physics and Einstein was past his prime anyway. Then string theory came along based on Euler's equation and maybe it can unify all 4 forces. Of course string theory is philosophy and not really physics at all since it doesn't have any observable consequenses.

    Did I leave anything out?

  54. Re:"MTV fluff" ... I was thinking "Electric Compan by steelframe · · Score: 1

    I appreciate that PBS has made this "re-broadcast" possible.Now I can share it with my son who missed it fist time around.I also enjoyed Cosmos and it would be great to see it again in this format.

  55. So much time wasted by Pieroxy · · Score: 1

    an, this is terrible. I can barely afford to RTFA most of the times, where exactly do you want me to find 3 hours to view these videos?? My boss is going to kill me!

    Bah, I'll just talk my ass off, as usual.

    1. Re:So much time wasted by anaphora · · Score: 1

      Don't you get off work around 5PM? Stop by McDonalds, grab some food, and open those torrent files you set to download last night.

  56. A bit too repetitive by emarkp · · Score: 1
    Okay, I watched all three hours, and it seems like 45 minutes of hours 2 and 3 were review. If they'd skipped the review they could have done the whole thing in 90 minutes, tops.

    But a fun show, and informative, despite some of its flaws.

  57. Re:People who use Real Player - try this by bloodpet · · Score: 1

    That's only for winblows.

    --
    Truth is like a shining mirror that's been shattered.
  58. good thing.. by destiney · · Score: 1


    A friend sent me the link a couple weeks ago. That is some cool thought-provoking shit to watch.

    Glad I saw it before the ./ DDoS.

  59. If you don't like it go buy a Physics magazine and by zymano · · Score: 1

    leave us alone. Go read the cryptic equations and maybe someday produce your own string theory show without computer visuals . You could sit there on a chair with your monotone voice and read from a book all the sting theory equations. Nice and boring just the way you like it. Nobody would care or would watch.

  60. So use the torrents by Bastian · · Score: 1

    They're posted several times over further down.

    And don't forget to leave bitTorrent running for a while after the download completes to help speed up the download for people after you.

    If we get everyone to use bitTorrent instead of the PBS site, maybe we can slashdot half the Internet instead of just one site. =D

  61. This deserves donation!!! by xombo · · Score: 1

    Every science company and scientist in America needs to pull out their wallet or check book to pay tribute to PBS and the folks at NOVA. This is by far one of the most informative television programs ever created. I'm pretty sure PBS just recently lost a huge amount of governmental funding, so please, do your part.

  62. How many have read the book?.... by LnxAddct · · Score: 1

    I personally read it a few years ago and it is an amazing book. It really makes you think about alot and is much more detailed then this series. I heard a lot of complaints which said that this was lacking in certain areas as a result of it being produced for the general public. If you want math and detail, read the book. However, the book is still general enough that you don't really need a background in this field. If you find it interesting, there are many other books that I would recommend. "Quantum Gravity", "Time Travel in Einstein's Universe", and "The Book About Nothing" are all great follow-ups that cover more specific areas of interest. Unfortunately I can't think of all of the authors off of the top of my head, but I assure you that they are worth gettting.
    -Steve

  63. Target audience? by GuyMannDude · · Score: 3, Interesting

    "The Elegant Universe" is about string theory, sure... but rather than being as accurate and descriptive as possible, they opt to squander three hours on needless (and logically irrelevant) special effects.

    I found not only the special effects distracting and annoying but even the flashy way they filmed non-SPFX scenes. They even tried to do funny things with the editing of the interviews with the professors!

    I happen to know one of the string theorists who appeared on the show. I was talking with him about what he thought of the finished product a few days after the final episode was shown. Both he and I agreed that while the rapid-fire editing and SPFX were not to our liking, we were both impressed that someone at least spent a fair chunk of dough to make this show. And he told me that he was hearing that a lot of kids (I assume he meant younger kids -- not college students) liked the show and that it got them interested in string theory.

    We could certainly debate whether those kids actually learned anything or whether they were just dazzled by the pretty pictures but I have to say that it's been quite awhile since anyone put up a chunk of dough to make a program about science. The show may not have been to my liking but if it can at least make people think that we're doing interesting and exciting stuff, perhaps it does serve an important purpose. I guess it all comes down to who their target audience is. And with Nova these days, one can never really be sure.

    GMD

  64. Re:If you don't like it go buy a Physics magazine by zymano · · Score: 1

    I'm surprised that the slash-dot group really liked this series. I know I found it frothy, heavy on the ol' special effects (I had the feeling that SOMEONE in the production team got a new non-linear editing system and just absolutely had to play with every possible feature.

    I've disliked Nova increasingly over the past few years - all the re-enactments (Gallileo for example) - they've gotten all touchy-feely. I have this awful thought that liberal-arts people, who are intrinsicly afraid of technology, would rather do dramas than do hard looks at science.


    No. his point was that he thinks he could produce something more boring and terse for the public.

    Yes he could.

  65. The obligatory PBS quote by Jon+Abbott · · Score: 2, Funny

    The Elegant Universe was brought to you by contributions to PBS stations by viewers like you. Thank you!

  66. How to play using MPlayer and no binary codecs by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Informative

    Download the MPEG4 version, which MPlayer will play just fine - both audio and video. (Change the last "12" and "01" to 12-14 and 01-08 to get them all.)

    1. Re:How to play using MPlayer and no binary codecs by fredzouille · · Score: 1

      apt-get install curl

      curl http://a768.g.akamai.net/5/768/142/3f9e9589/1a1a1a fb6ae049ae214fc034aad839a91985ea187bea5786f362d841 a61948bf2688f01f87fb6fdf0e7ceb61c22186fb/nova_eu_3 0[12-14]c[01-08]_mp4_300.mov -O

    2. Re:How to play using MPlayer and no binary codecs by jimmy_dean · · Score: 1

      That is sweet...thanks a lot for providing the info. Now I don't have to finish them on the Windows computer!

      --
      -> Sometimes, you just gotta break free from the shackles of proprietary code.
    3. Re:How to play using MPlayer and no binary codecs by Hatta · · Score: 1

      Here's how I did it:

      for hour in `seq 12 14`; do for part in `seq 1 8` ; do curl -O http://a768.g.akamai.net/5/768/142/3f9e9589/1a1a1a fb6ae049ae214fc034aad839a91985ea187bea5786f362d841 a61948bf2688f01f87fb6fdf0e7ceb61c22186fb/nova_eu_3 0"$hour"c0"$part"_mp4_300.mov; done; done

      Don't forget to remove the stupid spaces /. inserts

      --
      Give me Classic Slashdot or give me death!
  67. It was good while it lasted by YoungBonzi · · Score: 1

    I hope the internets best kept secret can handle being Slashdotted.

    Oh yeah... in hour 3 when the guy is leaving his house and getting into the cab, i love 2 buildings up =]

  68. Re:Oh for the love of sweet Baby Jesus on a skewer by OmnipotentEntity · · Score: 1

    An Object must have mass to have a Schwarzschild radius.

    And... opps.

    --
    "Build a man a fire warm him for a day, set a man on fire and warm him for the rest of his life."
  69. Se also, by Hawking by oddityfds · · Score: 1

    Se also a recent speech (scroll down a bit) by Stephen Hawking on string theory and the origin of the universe.

  70. Re:Einstein's Wife x1488 by 0x0d0a · · Score: 1

    I agree with your points, though I think that your claim that it's necessarily because someone else "worked harder" isn't necessarily true. Wanting to be the top dog is completely disconnected from how hard other people worked.

  71. No explanaiton of equal red-shift by pauljlucas · · Score: 2, Insightful
    In Carl Sagan's "Cosmos," an explanation was given as why it should be the case that we observe objects in space all red-shifted equally in every direction. The theory presented was that our 3-physical dimension universe was warped into a 4th physical dimension like a sphere. We (our galaxy), along with every other galaxy, is on the "surface" of this hypersphere. As the universe expands (much like blowing air into a balloon), the "surface" area of the hypersphere increases. Every point on the "surface" is equal to every other and all are moving away from each other. The "center" of the universe is the center of the hypersphere and does not exist within what we know of as 3-dimensional "space." With 4 space dimensions, "time" is relegated to the 5th.

    However, I've never heard mention of the above theory since, including in "The Elegant Universe" (unless I somehow missed it). Yes, String Theory requires 11 dimensions total, but (apparantly) all of the 7 "extra" dimensions beyond the 3-phsycical and 1-time dimensions are "all curled up" and very small. In contrast, the 4th-physical dimension mentioned in "Cosmos" is the size of the entire universe.

    So the question is: is the theory of the 4th-physical dimension and the "hypershpere universe" as presented in "Cosmos" still believed to be true?

    --
    If you reply, do so only to what I explicitly wrote. If I didn't write it, don't assume or infer it.
    1. Re:No explanaiton of equal red-shift by AtariDatacenter · · Score: 1

      Self-righteous 12th dimensional bastard! I had just come to terms with 11 dimensions. Now you're throwing on another one and saying it is a big dimension, unlike all the others except the three we've known about and it is a membrane bubble-sphere?

      I hate you! :)

    2. Re:No explanaiton of equal red-shift by IWannaBeAnAC · · Score: 2, Insightful
      The analogy between expansion of the universe and expansion of a balloon is just that, an analogy. Just like all analogies in physics, it breaks down if you push it too far.

      Space-time is 4-dimensional, but curved in such a way that it is not possible to embed the curved 4-D space-time into a flat 5-D space - or even a flat space of any finite dimension.

      For an example, take a one-dimensional piece of string. Now I can curve this into something that can be embedded in two dimensions (say, by wrapping it into a circle), but I can also curve it in a way that cannot be embedded in two dimensions. ie, as well as curving it along a plane, curve it out of the plane, as in a ball of string.

      If you apply an arbitary curve do an N-dimensional surface, you cannot, in general, embed this in N+1 dimensions. In the example of a ball of string, we needed N+2 dimensions. Going further, we could wrap the string around a 4-dimensional hypercube (although that is a little harder to demonstrate;-), and an ant walking along the string will still think its in a 1D universe.

      In summary, it is not meaningful to think of space-time as being 'curved into an extra dimension', except as a very rough first-approximation. Just like the ant walking along a piece of string, you can curve it in much more interesting ways than is allowed by just adding one extra dimension.

    3. Re:No explanaiton of equal red-shift by pauljlucas · · Score: 1

      OK, but what is the explanation for equal red-shift in every direction?

      --
      If you reply, do so only to what I explicitly wrote. If I didn't write it, don't assume or infer it.
    4. Re:No explanaiton of equal red-shift by IWannaBeAnAC · · Score: 2, Interesting
      That part of the analogy still holds, but the curvature of space-time is irrelevant to equal red-shift. The universe is expanding uniformly and symmeterically everywhere, and doesn't depend on where in the universe you are observing from.

      For another example, take a piece of pastry of uniform thickness. Put in some rasins in a grid spaced at equal distances. Now roll out the pastry smoothly in all directions. All of the rasins move the same distance from their nearest neighbors, and rasins initally at a distance x are now at a distance K x (here, K is bascally the 'Hubble constant' of the pastry :-).

      The balloon is used because its easier to demonstrate blowing up a balloon versus rolling pastry (scientists are usually not good a cooking!). The curvature of the balloon is irrelevant - and misleading because the whole point is that all points (ahem, no pun intended) in the universe are moving away from all other points - there is no center of the universe, or not one that can be determined by simple red-shift experiments anyway.

      The large-scale curvature of the universe is very nearly zero, so you need to think of the space-time being very nearly flat, and a long way from the boundary. Either a very very large pastry sheet (the edges are beyond the horizon) or a very very large balloon.

    5. Re:No explanaiton of equal red-shift by Wintensis · · Score: 1

      Another way to look at it...

      Take our ant, walking along the 1-D string, thinking he's in a 1D universe.

      The string is twisted and curved so that it 'spans' a 3D space (ball of string), while remaining 1D in nature. All well and good so far.

      Now... imagine that instead of a STRING, we have a RUBBER BAND. Now - and this is the clever part - STRETCH the band, WHILE it's wrapped up in a ball.

      Ok - so that's physically impossible... but you hopefully understand what I mean. The 'inflation', or stretching, of spacetime doesn't affect it's curvature into higher dimensions - or at least it NEED NOT do so - I don't know if it DOES.

    6. Re:No explanaiton of equal red-shift by nmos · · Score: 1

      Wow, these kinds of nuggets are the best thing about Slashdot!

  72. Trying to Capture the streams by m2h · · Score: 1

    I've been trying to figure out how the QuickTime streams work on the site.

    This is as much as I've figured out, but still no luck at capturing a stream.

    Using StreamBox!VCR and a little research on what the QuickTime streaming protocol is I figured this much out.

    By changing the HTTP to RTSP
    I copy in the url that I arlready know of: [ "..." is www . pbs . org]

    rtsp:// ... /wgbh/nova/elegant/media2/nova_eu_3012c00_ref.mov

    redirects to:

    rtsp:// ... /wgbh/nova/elegant/media2/nova_eu_3012c00_mp4_ref. mov

    Which gives me these two lovely sources to play with

    rtsp:// ... /wgbh/nova/elegant/media2/nova_eu_3012c00_hi_ref.m ov
    rtsp:// ... /wgbh/nova/elegant/media2/nova_eu_3012c00_lo_ref.m ov

    But I still can't save the stream. Just times out.

    And then I get an itching and I get weird errors in my logs. Like this url appended to the urls stated above..

    h**p://stream.qtv.apple.com/qtv/wgbh/http/nova_e u/ nova_eu_3012c00_lo_ref.mov

    But that doesn't exist either or with RTSP. Hrmm...

    --
    misundstood by most, hated by some, loved by few.
    1. Re:Trying to Capture the streams by m2h · · Score: 1

      Er.. nevermind my post. Someone else figured it out. LOL

      --
      misundstood by most, hated by some, loved by few.
  73. MOD UP PARENT!!! by Chriscypher · · Score: 1

    Exactly. During many of the special effect sequences, I grimaced because what they were describing and what they were portraying were contradictory.

    I finally couldn't stomach it any longer, and when they started repeating vaguaries for the uptenth time and laying on more eye candy in episode 3, I couldn't take it any longer.

    I'm a Nova fan and documentary junkie, and while I did find the explanations of newtonian and einsteinian theories excellent, I still have no frigging clue about the implcations of string theory and 11 dimensions. Am I to believe there are 5 of me sitting here, each drinking a different color of coffee?! Or playing cello. Good grief! Why should multiple dimensions mirror other dimensions? Is there *any* part of theory which states this?!

    Just because you *can* do special effects does not mean you *should* do them, especially when they end up distracting and misleading your audience.

    --
    "You have liberated me from thought."
    1. Re:MOD UP PARENT!!! by Wintensis · · Score: 1



      Why should multiple dimensions mirror other dimensions? Is there *any* part of theory which states this?!

      Hmm... now, I'm no theoretical physicist - but bear with me.

      I believe that under one particular variant of Quantum Mechanics - and remember that String Theory(tm) is a superset of Quantum Mechanics and General Relativity - you get the 'many-worlds hypothesis'. I believe that it's under the 'Copenhagen Interpertation' of Quantum Mechanics.

      Now - according to the MWH, whenever a quantum probability function has to collapse (ie. the universe has to choose - is the particle there, or there, and by what path did it get there) it collapses to all possible states, and reality diverges. This means that the particle goes to all points that is can, by every path that it can, but only chooses one destination-path-pair per diverging reality.

      This means that each new reality is a very minor variant on the parent universe, and on each other. This means, of course, that except for that one very small difference, each 'new' reality is identical.

      So, in answer to your question - Yes, there is a part of the theory that says that branching realities that are close to one another DO 'mirror each other'.

  74. Re:i have to agree....somewhat by AtariDatacenter · · Score: 1

    But... but... you said it would take ten minutes! I read your description in less than 30 seconds.

    FRAUD! SELLER MISREPRESENTED PRODUCT AND WOULD NOT RETURN PHONE CALLS. AVOID!!!

    Seriously, though, I thought I had seen this when it was on television. Turns out, I didn't know it was a miniseries and only saw the last hour. The last hour all by itself pretty much describes the bulk of the program. Going back and now having seen the first and second hour, I'd say that it gives more background information and helps fill in a few holes. (Like know I have a better idea of what they mean by the hidden dimensions. At least, I think I do. By "very tiny dimensions" they mean instead of a vast amout of movement along their plane, they have an extremely tiny amount of travel distance. At least, I think?)

    I have all sorts of questions after watching this, and I know I'll never get them answered. But I'm wondering what string theory says about what, in my mind, is a conversion of energy types. Like the strong nuclear force into plain energy (in a nuclear explosion)? Does string theory explain it? Can it explain a theoretic conversion of gravity to something else?

  75. Awsome by dave1g · · Score: 1

    I found chapter 2 while channel surfing one day and never to to see any of the other parts, thanks poster!

  76. Re:People who use Real Player - try this by welsh+git · · Score: 1

    NO! mplayer - unix/FreeBSD/Linux mEDIAplayer - windows mplayer plays em all. http://www.mplayerhq.hu/ real, avi, divx, xvid, mpeg, mp3, mp2, m4a, .ra etc.etc.

    --
    Sig out of date
  77. Re:People who use Real Player - try this by welsh+git · · Score: 1

    NO!

    mplayer - unix/FreeBSD/Linux
    mEDIAplayer - windows

    mplayer plays em all. http://www.mplayerhq.hu/

    real, avi, divx, xvid, mpeg, mp3, mp2, m4a, .ra etc.etc.

    --
    Sig out of date
  78. Irony, thy name is Nova. by Hexydes · · Score: 1

    Does anyone else find it ironic that everyone here is using Supernova to download a program in the.....Nova series?

  79. Maybe I was expecting too much... by vanyel · · Score: 1

    ...but I was really disappointed in the series. I felt it was more at the Discovery Channel level than Nova, and the entire first hour didn't tell me anything more than I learned in high school. The second hour maybe a little bit of first year college physics, and the third didn't seem to be going anywhere and I finally gave up on it. The one thing I thought was good was the ant on the cable visualization of another spatial dimension...

    1. Re:Maybe I was expecting too much... by ph43thon · · Score: 1

      I agree with the series being fairly lame. Brian Greene is annoying. The entire time, he talked as if he was speaking to a little, bitty baby.. Widening his eyes and flapping his arms around a lot.

      The production values were ridiculous, extremely over the top. And everyone seems to agree that it is totally devoid of mathematics and it still denies you any sort of strong understanding of the concepts. Just ask anyone who watched it if they can explain how or why the five different versions turned out to be the same (M-Theory). They can't! And that is a joke.. All you know from the Nova show is that oh.. "there were five versions.. but it was really just one"

      Go here and listen the audio collection; then give the video a viewing. You may have a hard time soaking up the slides and the audio explaining how M-Theory came to encompass all five.. but it does a lot better job of clarifying the concept.

      All Nova did with this show was encourage people to remain ignorant by convincing them that they'd learned something. I don't see what is so wrong with challenging the viewer just a weee little bit. They spent an inordinate amount of time just trying to convince us all that there could be more than three dimensions.

      oh well.. I just got real excited and was let down by the whole series..



      p

  80. 2 Weeks old news! Go Slashdot! by jriskin · · Score: 1

    I could have found out faster reading a print weekly...

    Seriously folks, I'm not trying to be a Troll but its been up since at least the 1st of the month. The 3rd hour went up shortly after the last one aired on TV on the 4th.

  81. Here are the complete links by alphakappa · · Score: 1
    --
    "When the only tool you own is a hammer, every problem begins to resemble a nail." - Abraham Maslow (1908-1970)
  82. why these links do not work? by Janek+Kozicki · · Score: 1

    I've been trying those links few times.
    And I always got downloaded some strange files.

    Those files are way too short to be a video...

    Anyone can help me in getting those films?

    --
    #
    #\ @ ? Colonize Mars
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    1. Re:why these links do not work? by Gherald · · Score: 1

      Put those .torrent files somewhere safe (so you can resume the download if necessary) Then run them through the Official Bittorrent

      But I recommend this particular client.

    2. Re:why these links do not work? by Janek+Kozicki · · Score: 1

      thanks, it works :)

      (actually I had to apt-get install bittorrent)

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      #\ @ ? Colonize Mars
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  83. Soda Metrics by maomoondog · · Score: 1

    For what it's worth, I think marketing and informal price-fixing have as much to do with making people tolerate huge soda prices as the real value of convenience. The bandwidth market is probably a lot more rational, since a lot of people are paid by their employers to make the correct purchasing decision!

    Another cool fact about convenience: A study was done on how far people would drive for a discount. They were willing to drive an extra 20 minutes to get a $5 discount on a single $20 purchase, but they wouldn't dive those same 20 minutes to get a $5 discount on a $100 purchase. The markets would be a lot more rational if people were!

  84. Re:Heh... by Listen+Up · · Score: 1

    Actually, you are incorrect. Relativistic physics is an extention of Newtonian physics. Physics as an object approaches the speed of light leaves Newtonian physics and enters Einsteinian physics. There is no philosophy involved. Einsteinian physics solved most of the world's physical problems at the time and gave predictions to physical properties that were not yet known. Even almost 100 years later, every single prediction has been proven correct.

    The problem is that computer programmers/computer science majors/etc. never had to take courses dealing with higher levels physics. Most people do not. Which leads to the understanding of the subjects with the depth of common person, no more. And that is an unfortunate statement.

    Mathematics is not just a construct, but the true language of the reality in which we exist. Mathematics is what explains to us our reality and our current observations. Mathematics is also what predicts and tells us about what we don't yet see or know. There are hundreds upon thousands of times in the past 200 years (for example) that the words "the mathematics told us this would occur, but until today we never had the ability to observe it". And the converse "we have just observed an event occur, but we do not yet have mathematics to explain it to us". Although, to not make confusion in the converse, new mathematics is not created without following the rules of all mathematics before it.

    I'm sorry you are just like everyone else intellectually. Yes, 6 figures is nice, but empty for someone who lives for more in life. Cheers.

  85. for those who don't use bittorrent by Janek+Kozicki · · Score: 1

    Here is the elegant universe series All three parts.

    It will be there about one month.

    And it is for all those people that do not use bittorrent, and want to get this film.

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    #\ @ ? Colonize Mars
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