Gamers Are Good People, Too

The Ticktockman writes "For years, gamers have been looked down upon by the media. We are said to be crazy lunatics who, given the chance, might decide to shoot up our school because of the games we play. Well, the game-themed webcomic Penny Arcade has had enough. They have now started a little something with the Seattle Children's Hospital called 'Child's Play', where gamers can buy videogame and non-game-related gifts for patients there. So if you feel like showing the world that gamers are compassionate people too, then head on over to the Penny Arcade 'Child's Play' page for more details."

Comments

no offense

[mOoZik]

"For years, gamers have been looked down upon by the media. We are said to be crazy lunatics who, given the chance, might decide to shoot up our school because of the games we play."

Nah. Any group which spends an immense amount of time and money on playing lame video games will be too stupid to conjure up shootings. :)

Re:no offense

[t0ny]

I thought about going on a shooting spree, but I realized that all those guns and ammo are hard to aim without a keyboard/mouse.

Also, being able to switch from a handgun to a rifle was much slower than pressing the "4" key. Hell, who ever thought a rocket launcer could be so heavy... And dont even get me started on reloading ammo!!

Go PA!

[Maul]

Hopefully this will go well. It'll be even better if the media picks up what Penny Arcade is doing rather than running another badly written story about how little Tommy is inevitably going to kill lots of people if he even touches the box that Vice City is packed in.

Re:Go PA!

[squaretorus]

I love PA - its great in a kinda crap way. The Sunday Times reviewed it a few weeks back as an example of the better comics available online and had a small "may contain some indoor language" warning alongside the reprint and the web address.

So I checked out the strip and I'm SURE it was THIS ONE.

That sick kids are exposed to this kind of filth with their free games is most refreshing!! And on a Sunnday too!!! Wholesome!

Not just kids!

[Chodak]

This a great idea, and I hope a lot of people give thier support, but remember that there are lots of other ways to help, too. My girlfriend's father was recently in the hospital for several months awaiting a heart transplant. He couldn't do any sort of physical activity, and so I brought him one of my old NES systems and a few games. He told me later that they helped him stay sane since he was stuck in his hospital room all day. He was tired of watching TV, but Mario and Link were great company!

Re:Not just kids!

[Anonymous Coward]

Yeah, nothing like a little NES to get the weakened heart pounding with adrenaline, and the stress and blood pressure levels high. Your father is leaving you HOW much, exactly?

Don't Complain.

[Dan the Intern]

It may not "News for Nerds," but it certainly is "Stuff that matters."

'Child's Play'

[ThumbSuck]

...called 'Child's Play'...

Now chucky be good..

People are the same all over

[Saint Stephen]

Ever notice how the things you like are never harmful, and they are always misunderstood by society?

Whereas the things you don't like are unprecedented levels of chaos, evil and destruction never before witnessed in the history of man?

It doesn't matter what the issue is, or what side you're on: play this to your advantage and you'll win ever time :-)

Re:People are the same all over

[Anonymous Coward]

People are inherently xenophobic. In the past 100 years, society has advanced at a rate far faster than the individuals that it is composed of. It is difficult for the less socially aware groups to keep up.

Rather than expanding their horizons - it's much easier for them to limit it. They place themselves in a box with everything else that they *do* understand. And then they fear or ignore everything else that doesn't fit into their limited world view.

This is the cause of virtually every major human conflict in the modern world. Particularly the religious ones.

Parental role?

[shakamojo]

While I think that what Penny Arcade is doing is a wonderful attempt to change the public perception of gamers, I think that the core of the problem is that parents just aren't spending enough time with their kids. When the only interaction and respect that children get is through television, the Internet, and video games, what do you expect?

I'm certainly going to contribute to what the guys are doing with Child's Play, but what I'd really like to see is some sort of media backlash against the parents who are neglecting their duty to our future! Our children should be viewed as a responsibility, not a liability, and we should stop looking for scapegoats and step up to the plate!

Re:Parental role?

[switched4OSX]

You hit the nail on the head. The problem today is that more and more kids are not taught that they will have to answer for their actions. When I was young, I knew that when I screwed up I was going to have to face my father- which might just entail a whipping. To those of you out there that think paddling damages a kid, you are wrong. Let me clarify something- there is a big difference between a paddling and a beating. At no time in my life have I ever been scared of my dad, but I sure as hell respected him.

As a parent, you need to teach your kids right from wrong, and that a price may be paid for you wrongs. They need to learn how to respect others and their opinions, even if they differ from yours. If you bring your child up in a sound, moral environment then they will learn to know the difference between real life and fiction. Parenting is a big responsibility, and unfortunately it seems like more and more people are not willing to take the time to do it right. It's just too easy to blame someone else.

Re:Parental role?

[Sunnan]

Hey, you catch more flies with honey than with vinegar.

Doesn't violence beget violence? I'd wager more violent criminals have been subject to violence themselves.

I was brought up without paddling or much punishment at all. Okay, so I'm a lazy bum but at least I try to be kind.

I guess that may explain why I don't respect laws that I find meaningless (such as most aspects of copyright law) - that I have no built in fear/respect for the faces of authority.

Re:I don't have a problem with games.

[ethanrider]

Ironic that's a very violent thing to do to gamers...

"Good" gamers and "bad" gamers

[KeelSpawn]

Actually, I believe there are two kinds of gamers. One is the good gamer and the other is the "bad" if you want to call it that way. Look at those teeange gamers who brutally shoot innocent citizens - what do they all have in common??

1. They're all (if not most) high school drop-outs.
2. Their parents are no better than their kids. This is in terms of education, respect, and self control.
3. The violent/unsafe neighborhood they grow up in.
4. Their parents possesing guns and not safely storing them so their kids won't find it.

And WHO'S fault are those?? The GAME'S fault?? HELL NO!! I wonder when will kids wake up and realize that they have a future ahead of them and they need to take care of school subjects first. And only have games as a side-entertainment in spare time (or weekends and vacations). And parents need to stop blaming game makers just because they didn't take proper responsibility for their own children.

People out there, wake up. You have a brain so make use of it. Kids - make use of it for self control on education in school. Parents - make use of it to guide your kids to the positive direction.

I'm a 16 year old and am currently a high school Junior. I play games more than anything I do, but yet at the same time I can manage all my school work pretty well. It's all about management. Management and self-control.

Re:"Good" gamers and "bad" gamers

[JAYOYAYOYAYO]

if these kids were actually raised in a "violent/unsafe neighborhood" then they would probably be a lot LESS likely to go out and kill because they wouldve realized the consequence of their action before doing it (i.e. people actualy die in the real world, and you go to jail for killing them). these kids that do these things are not normal. they have some form of mental defficiency that does not allow them to distinguish between right and wrong. none of them were high school drop outs. none of them grew up in violent neighborhoods. the only traits they share are mental problems and a lack of parental control.

Re:"Good" gamers and "bad" gamers

[anaphora]

I beg to differ. I was a highschool dropout, 10th grade. My parents kept guns all around the house. I live in Texas, I could go on a Doom2 style rampage with the weapons within reach from this computer. A .308, AR-15, Bowie Knife, 9mm Macarov, .44 Desert Eagle. The only point you make I don't match is #3, and surely that doesn't make THAT big of a difference. Don't blame kids shooting up people on ANYTHING except the kids are fucking crazy.

Re:"Good" gamers and "bad" gamers

[AvantLegion]

You're making a logical fallacy here.

The poster you replied to cited 4 factors he felt were common among the shooter kids. You applied those factors to yourself, and since you're not a shooter, you declared his point invalid.

The problem is that you are not interpreting his point correctly. What he said, basically, is "for all shooter kids, there exist these four factors". What he DID NOT say is that "all people with these four factors are shooter kids". There is a very big and important difference.

well

[cap'n foolsy]

now this is nice and all, but i hardly think their latest strip is going to endear them to the "games are bad mmmmkay" crowd.

funny strip, though.

Well...

[switched4OSX]

I'd love to submit an insightful post on why most people are able to differentiate between game violence and the real thing, but I've got to go clean my guns.

Re:Well...

[Riff10111]

Clean them? I just throw them away when they're empty -- there's always another in a nearby crate or something.

Re:Well...

[Ze Kraggash]

Guns, who needs guns!

I just stomp on people's heads, they pop and produce coins which make me feel good.

Re:Well...

[Jack Zombie]

Well, here's a hopefully insightful quote, taken from the comments on this article at Game Girl Advance, about how, when people spend too much time playing a realistic videogame without breaks, they subconsciencely blend elements of the gaming reality into their perception of the mundane world (for a short period of time):

-------------
(...) I was playing GTA 3 obsessively since the day I bought it. And usually, I am a careful, courteous, safety-conscious driver.

One night, on the way to a gig, we approached an intersection. The lights were green, but someone in front of me slowed, waiting for oncoming traffic to abate so they could turn.

A car in the lane next to me was barely behind me, almost right in my blind spot. What I should have done is stopped, waited for them to pass, then continued. But I didn't. On a sudden impulse, I sped up towards the stationary car, then suddenly cut between it and the unsuspecting vehicle beside me, leaving a space of what must have been inches between the corners of the 3 cars, a move that if only a split-second mis-timed, would have been a 3-car pile up.

My passenger said "JESUS CHRIST, DUDE!!!". The driver I cut in front of braked loudly and honked reproachfully. And then I realised -- that dangerous move was something I often did in the videogame. I had actually risked the lives of real people, by unconsciously using a learned behaviour from an action game.

I was shocked, and chastened. I now drive ultra-responsibly with an extra layer of "thought censorship" on my impulses. Because I don't trust my mind anymore.

I don't believe the game would drive people to violence, in fact I don't even blame the game for what I did. Rather, it's a more an aspect of my own dizzy perception of reality. However, I am giving serious thought to leaving the more "realistic" games out of my gaming time from now on.
-------------

I think everyone has already heard the "if Pacman affected us as kids, we'd all run around in a darkened room munching pills and listening to repetitive music" quote, but the fact is realistic videogames affect us in more ways than we want to admit. People need to gripe the fact that videogames are an interactive audiovisual experience that can be used to manipulate one's senses in order to achieve alternative mind states. Otherwise, how could videogame technology be used to cure people suffering from acute phobias by showing them a computer simulation of their fears, or to help train pilots and military personnel?

It isn't just a game anymore.

Re:Well...

[PainKilleR-CE]

So, you're taking an example of someone that acted on impulse, doing something I see people do every day, and saying that people may have justification for their fear of game players? The fact that someone could get to the age at which they are behind the wheel of a vehicle and not have impulse control should be what they fear.

Otherwise, how could videogame technology be used to cure people suffering from acute phobias by showing them a computer simulation of their fears, or to help train pilots and military personnel?

Phobias can be treated in many ways, and with people that have a good sense of distinction between reality and non-reality, video games won't work as treatment, because the phobia won't be as strong (if it exists at all) with the game as it is in real life.

Pilots often state that games can help them with parts of what they need to learn to become pilots, such as learning to fly by the guages, or analyzing situations that would be extremely dangerous in real life. They also state that games still don't replace actual training and time in the seat, especially because even the best controls available for games don't feel like the real thing.

The military uses games both for situation analysis and to teach people how to work in a cohesive group in a combat situation. It's much cheaper than full war games (going out with real equipment and simulating a battle), but doesn't replace either that or any of the numerous other methods they use to bring troops together. In the end, it's about making soldiers work on instinct, with as many different tools as are available. The games don't train the soldiers to shoot, or even to be efficient soldiers, they simply help reinforce their training in situations that may be expensive, dangerous, or impossible to reproduce outside of video games or actual war-time situations.

Overall, your primary example proves one thing: people need impulse control and those without it will often blame anything for their lack of impulse control. If I followed every impulse I ever had, I would've been in jail long before video games got more complicated or realistic than the first Super Mario Bros.

Re:Well...

[Ayaress]

For years, Carmageddon was one of my favorite games. It spent more time installed in my harddrive than Chrono Trigger spent plugged into my SNES.

If you don't know, the point of Carmageddon is to drive around, run over pedestrians, and repeatedly engage in high-speed collitions with the other vehicles in the race until only one car is still running.

I played this game for longer than I've had my license, and I still play it occasionally now, although it's horribly outdated and I'm good enough at it that I don't watch the screen anymore.

But my point is that, as realistic as the damage and control models of the game was (for the time, anyway. Nothing compared to more recent games) I have never, ever, EVER done something even remotely as stupid on the road as I have in the game.

I know plenty of people who drive like I do in Carmageddon, but I know only one other person who actually played Carmageddon, and he's not old enough to get a license yet.

It was never a really popular game, so I seriously doubt any significant fraction of the tens of millions of idiots who regularly drive like the fool described in the above post play Carmageddon. People have driven like morons since the 20's ("Would ya' slow down you maniac! The limit's 15, not 18! That model isn't even rated to go that fast!"), and nobody has ever needed GTA or Carmageddon or whatever to inspire them to do so.

These guys are the greatest

[xirtam_work]

I just love Tycho & Gabe's website. I only discovered it because of Slashdot, so it's wonderful that you decided to run this story.

I'd like to see something like this elsewhere than Seattle as well, not that I have anything against Seattle. There are needy and worthy kids all over the world.

Hopefully, the media will see the results of generous geeks helping these kids and show our community in a positive light for a change. It's not as if we're not used to giving to good causes, in fact when we do donate to a cause it's more often than not politiically motivated to help out someone who has been scuppered by a huge corporation, **AA or the government. Remember Kevin, Dimitri & the 12 year old girl who was threatened by the RIAA?

I can't wait to see how this turns out.

Eventually something like this needs to exist with a charitable Trust status, so that it is tax deductable. For instance, here in the UK you can 'gift aid' any donatations to a charity and they can claim the income tax you paid on your donation back from the government, which is nice.

Too late...

[evilviper]

Well, the game-themed webcomic Penny Arcade has had enough.

Umm... Too late, I say. By this last generation of game systems (PS2/Xbox) gaming became nearly mainstream. It's more widespread that it had ever been, and it's not mainly kids anymore, but adults. You can see this from the more mature themes of more and more games, and the very widespread advertisements for Mature/AdultsOnly-rated games.

Gaming is close to becomming as legit as home movie-watching is. It's big business now, and saying anything bad about gamers is just as suicidal as saying anything bad about white males.

This would have been a decent idea back in the Nintendo/SNES days, but now it's pointless.

Benefits for Charity

[carcosa30]

It might be good for gamers to throw benefit LAN bashes and tournaments... these might be a little easier to get on the news than normal "pro gamer" wankfests, they would provide money to charity, and they might show the world that we're not a bunch of ravening columbines waiting to happen.

Has this worked for anyone else?

[The Almighty Dave]

The local bikers hold rides for toys, MD, probably others. Are they looked at any better because of it? If you are going to do something like this, do it because it makes you feel good. Nobody is going to think any better of you, as a group.

Re:Has this worked for anyone else?

[Pingular]

If you are going to do something like this, do it because it makes you feel good.
Alternatively, you could do it for the kids...

Better Link

[Takara]

Here's a link for child's play that won't dissipear when PA posts a new article in a few hours.

problem with reality

[Anonymous Coward]

I have one statement about violence in video games: it is not reality.

now I'll elaborate with further statements.

I've played my fair share of bad games, watched faces of death, rotten.com, goatse.cx....*shiver*
so I'm not a stranger to horrific things.

But at the age of 18 when I saw a dead man it was different. way different.

He had suffered a heart attack behind a gas station in bakersfield.

Then there was the late night car drive back from san fransico with my sister when we saw the flipped minivan and the grotesqe result of ejction and head vs pavement.

Both of those incidents were nothing like the movies or even the video accounts of similar events. This was real.

When someone's experience in reality is the same as one imagined, there is something else wrong.

Re:always...

[pocopoco]

Agreed, but penny-arcade is much less about the money than many other sites. They recently closed Club PA which was paying extra for extra content because they didn't need the money and didn't like excluding people. Also they are choosey about banners and will often explain in their rant why they thought you might be interested in what's being advertised (showing they didn't just jump to the advertiser paying the most).

Quakecon Collection for the Kids

[mrpuffypants]

We've already started a collection for the kids over at the Quakecon Forums. After just a few hours I've had $20 sent in and on December 5th I'm going to collect up everything donated and buy a shitload of stuff from the wishlist and send it off to Gabe and Tycho. The specific thread has more details and if you'd also like to be a part of our massive money collection then feel free to donate over at the official donation site. Not only will you get your name on the big donation but you can get a nice warm feeling during Thanksgiving!

I beg to differr.

[Inoshiro]

"but now it's pointless."

Maybe if little Cancer-Boy wasn't going to be getting a wonderful gift, which he (or she) might not otherwise be able to enjoy. Nintendo doesn't care if you've lost all your hair or if you only have 6 months to live, it's just there to love you with all the Mario and Zelda it can.

See, it's not just about the kudos for gamers not being granny-killing, child-raping monters, it's also about helping people in need.

Virtual Reality and Reality

[Neo-Rio-101]

I honestly can't see how gamers *can't* distinguish between real and imaginary violence.

You're reminded that it's just a game when you character dies over and over again and comes back to life.... that's not exactly realism we're talking about is it?

Back to the subject, I think LAN-Gaming for charity looks like a pretty good idea!

Not the Point, at All

[RCVinson]

But, see, that's not the point. "Prove we ain't all badz gamerz" is just a rallying cry. It's not the reason, not at all.

The thing is that they've set up and streamlined a way for us to genuinly make a difference. It's an effort headed by some guys that we, as a community, know and trust. It's a theme (games as a positive distraction/passtime/playtime) that I'd suggest a large selection of us here can identify with. And it's more personal than your average charity, since we'll even get to see pictures of the results, when all is said and done.

This is a great thing, and I hope it's just a beginning.

Anyhow. Kudos to Gabe, kudos to Tycho, and the same to everyone helping them out, and to everyone (including you) who're donating to this or other causes.

Polarised opinion

[Space cowboy]

This probably won't be well-received on /. because it's counter to the "feelgood" nature of the story, but...

There's no reason to expect that just because someone does something good, they're not capable of doing something evil as well. There's many a tale of mafioso gang members going to church on Sunday with their mother, taking confession, and going out on Monday to kill someone....

I'm not saying that anyone who helps this project out is going on a gun-toting killing spree (as if!) but to say X can't do A because (s)he has done B is a bit too simplistic.

It's a nice idea. Don't hype it beyond what it is, it doesn't need it.

Simon.

Hitler and Ghengis Kahn played computer games,

[anti-NAT]

didn't they ?

Isn't they why they killed a lot of people ?

Ah, I don't believe this

[wiwo]

> Gamers Are Good People, Too
They just behave like good people, they call it Role Playing.

Damn right I'm complaining!

[Tim C]

You killed Penny Arcade, you bastards!

Let me pay you not to hate me too!

[orthogonal]

For years, gamers have been looked down upon by the media. We are said to be crazy lunatics.... So if you feel like showing the world that gamers are compassionate people too, then head on over to the main Penny Arcade page, and scroll down for details.

As a gay black man born Jewish who converted to the Muslim faith, many people irrationally believe that I recruit young men into a homosexual lifestyle while raping white women and making matzos with the blood of murdered Christian children on my way to planning to blow up airplanes for Allah.

While these prejudices are incorrect, and in truth have been practiced by few or none of the people of my sexual orientation/race/gender/ethnicity/religion, I feel that rather than denouce those ignorant persons who accuse me of those crimes, it is better buy them off.

I hope that by bribing the world, I will gain the grudging acceptance of people who will still whisper behind my back and point accusing fingers at me when they think I'm not looking.

So if you're straight or white or female or Christian or any kind of non-Muslim, please leave me the name of your favorite charity, so that I may begin to pay you to hate me a little less. I hope that when I've contributed enough, you might even call me a compasionate fag coon penis-owning hebe raghead.

Who Cares?

[manticor24]

I for one don't feel obligated to donate to a charity just to make a bunch of morons with half-baked theories feel better about my state of mind. Besides, it wouldn't help anyway. People will believe what they want to.

"Oh, shit."

[anaphora]

Mom? Mom? Why aren't you respawning? Mom? Ah shit. *hides his shotgun*

Direct link to the wish list

[while(true)]

Here's the wish list. Now get over there and buy something for the kids!

+1 Interesting; -1 Troll to Mavia.com

[LittleGuy]

According to Mothers Against Violence in America, they can link the Green River Killer to Violent Video Games, and vice versa.

Right.

Back in Old School, they used to call these "old wives' tales."

Re:"GAMES ARE GOOD! BUY GAMES! WE HELP THE CHILDRE

[Rangsk]

Let's be honest, if violent games didn't made me violent, I wouldn't play them.

Excuse me? Please speak for yourself. Personally, I play violent video games as an outlet for my frusterations with life. Some people play sports, other people put their hand through a wall - I play violent video games. Either way, it's better than bottling up the rage until I explode.

Buy offline multiplayer games.

I don't believe this is the solution to the problem of "mindless, unimaginative, illiterate, loud-mouthed assholes with no fucking life" I completely agree that such people exist - but I also know for a fact that people who are thoughtful, imaginative, literate, and kind act the same way online or offline. I believe the problem you're describing is much larger than video games, and I don't think it's caused by video games. I think the problem is caused because either the parents are the same way and the children follow suit, or the parents have neglected to teach the children manners and how to interact with others - instead they've left that to TV and peers.

Don't allow more than 3 hours of gaming per day. Force them to take breaks. Make 'em exercise.

I think having rigid rules, such as "no more than X hours per day" is just asking the kid to either:
1) Play 3 hours every day, even if he doesn't really want to play that day, since it'd be a "waste" if he didn't.
2) Cheat as much as possible, and believe me... if a kid wants to break a rule, he will find a way.

I believe the best solution is to simply teach your child responsibility. As much as you'd want to, a parent simply cannot monitor a child 24/7 - you have to teach the child to monitor himself. This means that the child has to learn from their own mistakes - let them play the game for 12 hours every day, and let them see where that gets them. You can help prod them into realizing that they're wasting their lives away, but don't force them into a different lifestyle.

Now, of course I'm not talking about a 9-year-old here, I'm talking a 16-year-old. For young children, simply not buying everything they want you to buy is enough to keep from spoiling them... which brings me to:

Beat the shit out of them, if needed, even if that makes them bitter and spiteful against you.

Yes, that's the perfect way to keep children from being violent. Almost all children raised by parents who beat them grow up to be responsible, model citizens.(/sarcasm)
Seriously, beating a child is not a good way to punish them. There are much more humane and effective methods of punishment - but remember, punishment should be used rarely - only if the child has severly broken the rules. And the best punishment should be tailored towards the specific child. Do something that will make the child really think about what he did.

Anyway, that's just my two cents, as a 19-year-old gamer currently going to college.

Re:"GAMES ARE GOOD! BUY GAMES! WE HELP THE CHILDRE

[Jack Zombie]

No, no, no, you got it all wrong. Sit down. Take a deep breath. That's it, inhale. Read what I wrote again. I've been a gamer for several years. I'm a Counterstrike and Everquest player; I was making fun of myself and generalizing about the community, and since this is Slashdot, I doubt anyone here doesn't know that there are also moderate gamers who don't act that way -- like you knew. The "Don't allow more than 3 hours of gaming per day. Force them to take breaks. Make 'em exercise. Beat the shit out of them," is painfully obviously satire (I was getting tired of sounding self-righteous, so that was to lighten up the mood of the post a bit). And "if violent videogames didn't made me violent, I wouldn't play them," is just my personal motto, and obviously doesn't enclose every gamer -- that's why it says 'me'.

Now exhale.

said to be crazy lunatics?

[James Lewis]

I don't think that that is an appropriate label for the article. That article is only one in a LONG line of alarmist parenting articles, and no where in it does it call gamers "crazy". The article really isn't about the gamers, it is about the games. Articles like that one have been writen countless times on topics from music to babysitters to movies. They all twist the facts to make the topic seem 10 times worse than it is. While I don't agree with twisting facts for any reason, I don't think that the message of the article, that parents should be concerned about what video games their children play, is a crazy one. Games like Grand Theft Auto are NOT meant for kids, and are NOT appropriate. A game of that type is just as unsuitable for a 12 year old as Silence of the Lambs or The Exorcist. Fine for adults, not so for children. For a long time video games have been incapable of showing violence in a realistic enough way to really matter, so some parents just don't see it as important to filter which video games their children play. While that used to be true, it is no longer, and parents should be made aware of this fact.

Bikers

[Bigbutt]

Heh. It doesn't seem to help the biker image for all those toys for tots bike runs.

NeenerNeener's Gamers for a Cure

[Anonymous Coward]

NeenerNeener has been running a campaign for multiple sclerosis for three years now. Since the site is all about MMORPGs, they've mostly had MMORPG players there. But everyone can still participate!

Linky

Games infuence people?

[CCIEwannabe]

We are said to be crazy lunatics who, given the chance, might decide to shoot up our school because of the games we play

It is ridiculous to claim that video games influence children. For instance, if PacMan affected kids born in the eighties, we should by now have a bunch of teenagers who run around in darkened rooms and eat pills while listening to monotonous electronic music --Gene Spafford

Almost agree

[2nd Post!]

I almost agree with everything you say except paddling ^^

It doesn't damage the kid, you're right. My dad paddled me when I was younger. However, he decided to stop when he noticed that *I* started to punish my younger brother using force when he did something wrong.

Maybe he got lucky in raising kids who respected him and his beliefs without resorting to violence, because in the end that is exactly what he taught me; that violence was an appropriate tool for the upright and just, and he decided that wasn't such a good thing.

Wait, I'm confused...

[Torgo's Pizza]

My local IGDA chapter here in Dallas is collecting games to send to soldiers in Iraq. So either my efforts are making soldiers better killers (a good thing) and making sick kids dangerous (a bad thing); or I'm making the soldiers more docile (bad) and making sick kids feel better (good).

Oooh, my head is so confused!

Not Quite

[Sentry21]

While I think that what Penny Arcade is doing is a wonderful attempt to change the public perception of gamers

That's not right at all. What Penny Arcade is doign is a wonderful attempt to change the lives of so many underprivileged kids. I'm sure they like the good publicity, but I'm also sure they couldn't care less about it. They're doing this to help, not to 'change the public perception of gamers'.

Of course, I could be wrong, but if I am, then I don't want any part of this endeavor - the right thing for the wrong reasons is still wrong.

--Dan

Leave the whole spanking thing alone

[ianscot]

It's just too easy to blame someone else.

Which is sort of what you're doing, no offense. Turning this one into a pro-spanking tirade is missing the point and creating a little spat off to the side.

What we need to do isn't scold parents for not spanking their kids. We just need to encourage families to spend time together, it's that simple. When you have time together, the kids will pick up on the values you believe in -- partly because you play the whole parental role and instruct (and sometimes scold) them, but more importantly because they'll see how you act yourself. There are tons of ways that'll come out, lots of different flavors to it. You're into this spanking thing; well, whatever, but at least be there with them, you know?

Personally I don't always blame the parents. Partly this is economic -- two working parents on the same schedule has become the norm in order to keep up our SUV insurance payments, and that means kids just plain have less time with the adults who really do care about them. Scolding a single mother for not spanking her kids more is just not going to help anyone. On the other hand, if her work gave her flex time, for example, that might help. Your "Parents are to blame" angle would probably shut that option down.

But back to the games thing: I like computer games, play them with the kids or with the kids watching often enough, and I'm darn certain they understand the distinction between fantasy and reality there. On the other hand I've run into two-year-olds who couldn't talk except in snippets from video games. Not enough parents in that life, too much games in isolation. That's the difference.

Re:Hmm, we are?

[Camulus]

The problem is not the treatment of games in common media. This or that is coming out or look at what they are doing in blah blah blah. The problem is that every time a trouble teen does something crazy they blame it on video games like moms in the 70's used to blame it on music like Kiss. It have been a scapegoat and has in fact been looked down upon with disdain in many, many articles. In a ruling to uphold age restrictions on the sale of video games in some state, a judge went out of his way to say that video games are not art and are not capable of conveying anything meaningful. Things are getting better because games are becoming a prevelant part of our society. Either way, this is still a good cause to those that are interested.

Re:Hmm, we are?

[drinkypoo]

No one believes children when they say the boogey man made them do it, or their invisible friend told them to do it, but they blame it on loud music, or video games, or anything parents don't like, and suddenly it's a valid excuse. What it all comes down to is parents who are failures as parents looking for a scapegoat to blame their poor parenting on, and this is why it goes over so well with adults. The blame here is not on the kids who are blaming their actions on video games, kids will blame their actions on anything they think will get them out of it. They're kids, they don't understand the long view yet.