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EverQuest Players Defeat 'Unkillable' Monster
Thanks to Got Game? for their posting discussing the in-game slaying of Kerafyrm, aka The Sleeper, in PC MMO EverQuest. This event, commemorated with a screenshot on the site of one of the guilds involved, is notable because the players "...killed what Sony Online Entertainment intended to be unkillable. But rather than actually make it untargetable, Sony just gave it a hundred billion hitpoints. For those non EQers out there a reference scale: a snake has about 10 hitpoints. A dragon has about 100,000. A god has 1-2million." So, it took "close to 200 players almost 4 hours to beat the thing down into the ground", after an earlier failed attempt where the guilds "beat it down to 27% and then it mysteriously disappeared. Without dying. It seems that one of the Game Masters at SoE reset the zone because 'they thought the encounter might be bugged'."
If it's supposed to be unkillable, why didn't they just give it unlimited hit points?
Course this will probably mean 'we need 2000 people for this one guys' for some MMO gamers..
Proving they have too much time on their hands one unkillable monster at a time.
So what treasure did he leave behind? Hwo much experience? Etc.??? And yes I read the linked articles and none of them mention anything... and if he dropped nothing then that sucks almost as bad as Sony resetting the zone...
While it is all good and well that they bonded together to put the smack down on him, is there anything unfathomably cool to show for it?
This is half the fun of MMORPGs and it happens all too infrequently.
Half the articles on here are about how designers want to create camraderie amongst players and keep them from griefing newbies. Here's a secret-- give them a challenge, something that they can't do, then wait and see how long it takes. And on a PVP server too, bravo.
On an old MUD I used to play the designers created quests that were insanely hard to crack. People would spend hours trying to figure them out. New games rarely have this sort of thing-- even the high level EQ quests are waaaay too straightforward and don't require any brainpower.
I suppose it just costs too much to have to make unique quests that are reworked after being solved.
I would like to be there when they try to use their 15 minutes of fame to get laid at a bar.
Really, if Sony wanted an unkillable monster they should have done more to prevent it. Invulnerability would be the best choice, since giving people any chance means they'll take it. Failing that, a obscene hp regeneration rate coupled with pornographic hp and insta-death to anyone within theoretical attack range might work. Given the ingenuity people display when trying to circumvent the rules, however, I suspect that anything less than complete invulnerability would be overcome eventually.
Of course, the above ideas are based on the assumption that the game rules are followed. Exploits and other rule-breaking techniques throw everything out the window.
The monster was kind of like an Agent from the Matrix. Even though it was "all powerful" and supposedly impossible to kill, it was still bound by the laws of system. Same as an Agent. Instead of running away from it, some users decided to go all "Neo" on it and take it down. Not bad.
NOTE: I am not an EverQuest player.
This monster has been attacked before. It can only be summoned once per server. When it is summoned it goes around the zones killing everything. It has an insane regeneration rate! The last group to attack it couldn't get it below about 97% because it would continue to regenerate faster than the players could damage it.
However, Sony didn't account for the higher levels (60-65) when they designed this creature. The higher the level caps, the higher the damage caused. Thus, the Sleeper died.
Yeah, my thoughts are kinda disconnected there. I'm sleepy. Leave me alone.
One of my guys here at work is an evercrack addict, and he was saying that the dragon that was killed was a set-piece for a quest/storyline that was running.
It'll be interesting to see how they rewrite the quest/story to relfect the realities of the situation....
Please send all UCE to scally@devolution.com so I can f
Everything in Everquest has an innate regeneration level. For players this is only a few hitpoints every 6 seconds (a game 'tick') whereas NPC's generally regenerate much quicker, and moreso the higher level the NPC is. This is basically there to stop low-level players from killing high-level monsters by doing a series of kamikaze attacks on the NPC. Also, it should probably be noted that once this particular NPC spawns, it goes on a scripted rampage across several game 'zones', killing everything in its path until it reaches another high-level dragon NPC, and they duke it out.
Ita erat quando hic adveni.
how long until it gets solo-ed?
One of my DMs was fond of saying: "If you give it hitpoints, the players will kill it" when describing god design. I guess he was right...
--
$tar -xvf
i think it's pretty d*d funny that the one thing gameplayers could agree on for an in-game large-scale social goal was to thwack the monster meant to be part of the permanent landscape. Somewhere, an executive is going mad under their desk, whispering things about a revolution...
i wonder whether such things will be deliberately introduced into future games, as a quiet little way to increase teamwork?
"I'd say 'Have a good time,' but arson is still illegal.
Ummm. Not quite.
m
1) This happened during betatesting, before the game went live.
2) Lord British died, not through the guy exploiting a bug in the client, but because British's "Invulnerability" flag had gotten lost during a reset.
3) He was not banned from UO, he was banned from their beta testing, since he had (unrelated to killing Lord British) exploited bugs in the client without reporting them.
http://www.aschulze.net/ultima/stories9/beta.ht
(Or google for 'ultima online killing lord british')
It depends whether the NPC in question had been thought of when the engine was written, or whether it was added later. I don't know how often Everquest developers update the client, but if it had no concept of "invincible", it's possible that they would decide a client update would be too much effort, and stick to things the client could already do.
I used to make mods for X-Wing vs TIE Fighter; admittedly, the available tools were all reverse-engineered, so we never really knew for sure what the engine was capable of, but it was pretty limited in areas Totally Games (the developers) hadn't needed.
One of the early XWvTF missions that used add-on models was the Death Star trench run from A New Hope. The Death Star was represented by a square something like a hundred miles wide, with a trench running across it (10 polygons making up 5 rectangles - "ground" to the left, "ground" to the right, and two sides and a floor for the trench). A few other mod makers (including me) used the same mesh as a convenient representation of "the ground" in other ground-based scenarios.
It turned out that the XWvTF engine didn't have a form of invincibility that was useful; the "invincible" flag in mission files actually meant "no collision detection", and flying down the Death Star trench pursued by TIE fighters would be no fun if you flew straight through it whenever you should have crashed, so people usually just gave it a few million points of hull strength instead.
In the sequel, X-Wing Alliance, "invincible" was implemented in a much nicer way: invincible ships could get hit, they could lose shields, they could even be seriously damaged (slightly alarming in one mission where you fly alongside Luke Skywalker), but they never dropped below 1% hull strength.
(If you still play XWvTF or XWA, see my linked homepage for some old custom models and an XvT mission pack)
1.
Half a league, half a league,
Half a league onward,
All into the Impossible
Rode almost two hundred.
"Forward, the Heavy Brigade!
"Charge the dragon!" they said:
Into the Impossible
Rode almost two hundred.
2.
"Forward, the Heavy Brigade!"
Was any wizard dismayed?
Not though all guildsmen knew
Someone had blundered:
Their's not to make reply,
Their's not to reason why,
Their's but to go and try:
Into the Impossible
Rode almost two hundred.
3.
Dragon to right of them,
Dragon to left of them,
Dragon in front of them
Fumed and thundered;
Stormed at with sword and shell,
Boldly they fought and well,
Fought with old Kerafyrm
Fought at the the mouth of Hell
Fought almost two hundred.
4.
Flashed all their sabres bare,
Flashed spells they turned from air,
Pelting the Dragon there,
Charging a Fortress, while
All the world wondered:
Plunged into fire-breathed smoke
Through 2 billion hit points they broke;
Dragon unkillable
Reeled from their mighty stroke
Shattered and sundered.
Then they returned back, but not
With a bit of loot
No rust-sword for the bold
Almost two hundred.
5.
Quiet to right of them,
Quiet to left of them,
Quiet behind them
No mighty thunder.
No "Jolly good!" and "well!"
No grand applause to tell
How they had fought so well
Came, killed old Kerafyrm
Came, did the Impossible.
All that was left for them,
For almost two hundred, then,
Was burnt Dragon.
6.
When can their glory fade?
O the wild charge they made!
All the world wondered.
Honor the charge they made,
Honor the Dragon Slayers,
Nearly two hundred!
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...it was Chii who did the Sleeper in. :)
i ate crayons when i was a kid and now i have two braincells and the blue ones taste nicer
You know, the board game that Starbucks sells in their coffee shops.
The rules are so pathetically thin that situations come up with no ready answers in the rules, so we make it up. Consequently, everyone I know plays the game a little diffently.
I had the inspiring idea during Sculptorades (where you sculpt your clues in plasticene) that I could spell the answer out in the clay. Of course, the rules say nothing about this.
People will always try to achieve the impossible or seemingly impossible.
How do they say?
Difficult things become impossible if we don't try them.
So they tried ;-).
Regards, Martin
You should probably consider thinking along these lines for your REAL life, too. ie. doing work that doesn't pay in dollars can often mean more than...
> Can't attack dead things, eh?
Something tells me you haven't played many fantasy RPGs...
Look out! There's a lich behind you!
Sentimentality is merely the Bank Holiday of cynicism.
- Oscar Wilde
The fact that the proles rebelled and killed the unkillable God when they were supposed to be killing each other. It is insurrection at its best.
Was that night on the marge of Lake LaBarge I cremated Sam McGee...
Was it a sea urchin?
It is easier to build strong children than to repair broken men. -Frederick Douglass
Reminds me of "Harry" in Asherson's Call which was a shard that had to be destroyed as part of the story line. On the thistledown server a band of PK's got together and protected it 24hours a day long after it had been killed on the other servers. So the devs had to actually force it to be killed by spawning in Admin control monsters and getting one person on the server to volunteer to be the villain. They even made a statue to commemorate the event in the game.
It's interesting that the story says that the beast had 100 billion hitpoints. This wouldn't fit into a 'long' on a 32-bit architecture. So either is EQ using more than 32-bit numbers for hitpoint counting, or it was something like 2147483647 (2^31, two billion) hitpoints and they actually managed to underflow the counter ...
Looks like the Sleeper can't awaken anymore!
Can I buy the corpse on Ebay?
Go here to create your own Slashdot dis
I don't know about EQ, but muds generally have monster states. EQ probably has them too, for poisoning, death, paralyzation, etc. If so, it would be much simpler to just add a status for invincibility than hack all the math references. Then they just need to add code to functions that check status and act appropriately (at least in the implementation in my head, that is a decent way of doing it).
As a hardcore gamer (though not of EQ) I totally understand the drive to succeed in a near-impossible videogame task like this, and I've seen milestones come and go time and again. The perfect Pac-Man game. 43 seconds Minesweeper Expert. Quake 1, completed in under 12 1/2 minutes. Perfect Dark, done on all difficulty settings in less than 100 minutes. I know the dedication you put in for an achievement likely to be recognised by only a tiny fraction of the whole world, and I know the elation when the barrier falls, the timer stops one second faster than the previous record, the final objective completes. I can only hope that there exist more and greater challenges out there, because, seriously, who in the world would want to stop here?
"Nearly impossible" = "possible".
qntm.org
As an avid Role-Player myself this rings true to a debate a friend and I have had for years. I play alot of D&D (3.5) and my friend plays Shadowrun. In D&D they came out with a book of Gods & DemiGods and gave them stats that it would probably take 4 - 50th level PC's to take out. As the game only supports level 20 by default (ie minus the Epic Level Handbook) I am of the opinion that that's enough to make sure they won't die should I bring them into a campaign. My friend however pointed out that in the Shadowrun universe any "plot character" such as Harlequin the Immortal Elven Mage has a character sheet that simply states "Harlequin always wins, Harlequin can do anything and everything" And I've argued that this takes away from the game. It's not even a fair playing field! I used to argue that at least the Gods in my campaign, while uber-powerful, had to follow the rules and roll a die before they accomplished something (though the odds of failure were approximately 1 in 20.) This however gives me a new perspective. And I think should my players ever beat a god ... I'll give them good loot.
Kleedrac
Sure we wang, can.