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Phoenix Sounds Death Knell for BIOS
Anonymous Coward writes "The sky will fall next.... Betanews is carrying a story about Phoenix ditching the trusty old BIOS and moving to 'Trusted Computing'... ya right... Time to stock up on those old motherboards boys!" A follow-up/analysis on this story.
Bios changes to "trustworthy computing" make me just as scared as when my wife and I went car shopping at Gan Chev Olds and they said "Trust Me. This is a great deal!". Boy did I ever get screwed on that "deal". *sigh*
Since when does it make sense to switch the onus for security to hardware?
Oh I knew it was time to buy a Mac! With Doom 3 being fully supported on Mac on launch, it's going to be hard for people to criticize Mac for a lack of games. As soon as Uncle Sam rubs his greedy hands together, to try and get all our secrets, it's time for a switch, IMHO. I'm developing my open source Doom 3 project on a Mac, so I'll be playing on one too. Maybe once Doom 3 is on Mac, the next generation of Id-engine-spinoffs will make for a slaughterhouse of new games for Mac, too!
Does Phoenix ABSOLUTELY have to use acronyms that already stand for something? I mean: CSS and d-NA? I know we are running out of acronyms but there should still be a few million letter combinations left.
Sunny
Be my Friend
Or buy a motherboard with a BIOS that doesn't come from Phoenix.
Last time I checked, Phoenix wasn't the only company on Earth that made motherboard BIOS setups.
I'm sure that something else will pop up.
Or, another idea.. write/call/visit Phoenix and tell them that you think their idea sucks. Give their 1-800 # a call. Vote with your wallet, as usual.
Time to move.
I prefer the "u" in honour as it seems to be missing these days.
How will LinuxBIOS fit into this? Will we be able to pop out a Phoenix BIOS and pop a LinuxBIOS into it?
If all goes according to plan, a new product the company dubs Core System Software (CSS) will serve as the foundation of PC architecture.
DeCSS anyone?
"A door is what a dog is perpetually on the wrong side of" - Ogden Nash
I thought I read a while back that Microsoft was buying Phoenix or something and that in the future a lot of newer BIOSes were going to be made by MS? Am I on crack or is this what's actually going to happen?
You're right, I wouldn't steal a car. But if it were possible, I sure as hell would download one!
And I don't think they'll be rising again after this shark-jumping stunt.
As part of the "trustworthy computing" model established by Microsoft, Phoenix d-NA will leverage support for Redmond's CryptoAPI (CAPI) to deliver intrinsic security on systems running Windows and .NET applications
Why do I find leveraging any single crypto or security solution from one single vendor for the entire system worthy of concern more than trust? Nevermind that it's Microsoft, with an examplary track record of security expertise and openness with standards.
Not for me, nosiree.
"A door is what a dog is perpetually on the wrong side of" - Ogden Nash
I for one welcome our new trusted computing BIOS overlords...
Does anyone have a list of what motherboards use Phenoix BIOS? I'm going to put a compuer together soon, and i want to know which to avoid.
Browse at -1, because trolls are often the most creative part of
There is also OpenBIOS, an open source 'BIOS' based on OpenFirmware. OpenFirmware is the solution used on Sun, IBM and Apple based machines. OpenFirmware uses a forth interpreter and also presents the hardware as a device tree.
Jumpstart the tartan drive.
When will this industry ever learn that there's no such thing as a magic bullet? Let's see, just off the top of my head, there was OOP, not to mention Extreme Programming, and now the apparent holy grail of security, "Trusted Computing".
Well, guess what, writing high quality software is hard. Writing high quality, secure software is *really* hard. And there's nothing that will change that.
Ok, so you, me and 10,000 other geeks will buy non-trusted computing motherboards. Meanwhile, Joe Sixpack and all his buddies ignorantly purchase millions of the "trusted" and "safe" offering.
I can hardly imagine whatever "trusted computing" consortium allowing Open Source operating systems to have the specs to their protocols [after all, "security through obscurity" seems to be the favored method of both microsoft and the anti-virus industry].
Without those specifications, the routers will reject packets from Linux and BSD computers (because they will be seen by the routers as being infected because they cannot give the expected response) and therefore only 'approved' (read: microsoft, and perhaps -perhaps- apple) operating systems will have access to the internet.
And now, with the access to the hardware cut off by "trusted computing"'s subsitution for the bios; open source operating systems won't even be able to write to the computer hardware itself.
(my ex-gf pointed out that someone can crack that the way the xbox was cracked, but that is not taking the DMCA into account, which would prevent any 'respectable' projects from being able to use any code generated illegally).
To top things off, the final piece of the puzzle may be the fact that europe is on the verge of adopting 'software patents', which gives Microsoft the foot in the door to sue anyone who designs a half-way decent GUI into obscurity...and this will be coming soon to a formerly free democratic republic near you.
In short, Open Source computing is a concept whose day has come and now has gone, and it's time to either get back to chasing 'warez' or give up on computers entirely.
Unless there's something I'm missing here. But after reading slashdot for the last three or four years, I really doubt that there is.
IBM and AMI? That's hardly competition, as IBM won't license their BIOS (which is the whole reason Phoenix was started) and AMI is rare now. LinuxBios? Not close to complete! BTW, is the old 1981 IBM BIOS code in public domain yet?
And suddenly Joe Sixpack and his buddies discover they can't download music anymore. And they tell their friends...
"One of the great computing challenges of this decade is to bring all network-connected devices to common management standards and interfaces," said Martin Reynolds, vice president at Gartner. "Without such technology, device and network management becomes impossible."
People PAY Gartner for conclusions like that?
Good heavens Miss Sakamoto - you're beautiful!
WTF, then, is this?
Customers using Cisco's network admission control system can permit network access only to compliant and trusted endpoint devices (for example, PCs, servers, personal digital assistants) and restrict the access of non-compliant devices.
ISP's can install these new Cisco routers and you will be denied internet access unless you submit to Trusted Computing.
The routers are advertized as fighting "viruses", but they do not in fact scan for or block viruses. What they do is first check if you are running Trusted Computing. If not they deny you a connection. They can then be configured to verify that you are running specific software such as up to date anti-virus software.
-
- - You can't take something off the Internet! That's like trying to take pee out of a swimming pool.
People pay Gartner for worse... managers and marketing people are always looking for pre-digested "facts" to allow them to make decisions without doing any real research. I used to work as a technical marketing manager, and dealt with Gartner (and other analysts) frequently. Their level of expertise is suspect, and they issue definitive statements with questionable data.
Remember their noises about "Total Cost of Ownership" a few years ago? I applied their methodology to a teakettle, and established that the TCO of said teakettle was well over $4,000.
--Larry
Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by incompetence
So, does this mean that Mac becomes the preferred hardware platform for linux?
-jcr
The only title of honor that a tyrant can grant is "Enemy of the State."
If I properly understand documents which I can found about Trusted Computing I think that no one except certified TC/MS tehnicians can legaly change BIOS software if it is protected by DRM rules.
That may be an bigger problem if other BIOS vendors do the same thing.
After all maybe we are all forced to back to old Altair 800 days. Or to stay with current owned hardware and wait on market selfregulation (if no one buy an new HW/SW combination vendors must change rules if they want to survive). Or to buy an hardware which doesn't have TC/DRM/... features.
If all goes according to plan, a new product the company dubs Core System Software (CSS) will serve as the foundation of PC architecture.
When will we have DeCSS?
(1) Microsoft makes Trusted Computing stuff.
(2) Nothing Microsoft makes is secure.
therefore
(3) Trusted Computing will be easily hackable so that it can be replaced with another BIOS.
Now, Microsoft will probably and try to make this illegal, just like they have tried to make mod chips illegal. Last time I checked, though, it was perfectly legal to hack your own PC or other hardware.
And Joe sixpack and his friends are too lazy to do anything about it and too stupid to know what to do if they weren't. Joe sixpack and his friends have been having their noses rubbed in shit by our wonderful and pure democratic government and perfect serene friendly capitalism bread and butter spawned corporations for generations. They've always just rolled over and begged before... what makes you think that's going to change now?
;)
For hundreds of years joe sixpack and his friends have gotten weaker and weaker. The big recognizable first piece was centralized citizenship after the civil war, prior to that the only citizens of the USA lived in washington, everybody else was a citizen of their state which in turn was a member of the union.
Next came the military, the constitution set up a division of powers, the central government was not supposed to have a standing army, that was supposed to be left to the states, while the central government maintained the navy. This wasn't random, it gave the states themselves the greatest power in domestic defense and limited the central government to only the direct military power to counter foreign foes (of course the militia's could be rallied). The air force was of course not covered in the Constitution. If you pay attention you'll notice the central government makes sure they are covered if this falls through, the navy is still the most highly funded of the forces, having within it all 3 types of armed forces. The Marines for instance are really just a subset of the Navy. The Navy's air power and number of craft are almost as extensive as the air force itself. And I guess it goes without saying, the navy of course has a navy
Now after centralizing authority and military power the government then started disarming the citizens. Deciding to do no more than pay lip service to the 2nd amendment (after all the government certainly doesn't feel people might need arms to overthrow it like the forefathers who had to do just that did when they put it in!). Now guns are being taken away, the classes of arms available to citizens has been reduced and reduced, arms are VERY closely watched by our police state.
Since these things became stronger, than the last significant threat (assault riffles) has been removed from citizens hands, the government has proceeded to clench down. Showing it's force in foreign countries (iraq for instance), using "Terrorism" which was likely at least inadvertantly funded by our own CIA as an excuse to give federal agents more and more authority to lock down and control the population.
Now to ensure Joe sixpack complies with all this they have been brainwashing him in school. School curriculum's are of course regulated by the state. They have to be in accordance with state tests, if you've noticed the state regulations tend to be most specific in matters of US History, where the government makes sure that text books and tests teach the materials in it's own interpretation of history. The interpretation that paints a picture of country being oppressed and fighting the good fight for independence. Supporting the common man etc etc etc. Rather than the truth, a bunch of rich men, did not like paying taxes and did not like the fact that england had given trade monopolies to rich men in england instead of them. Well over 80% of the population were loyal to the crown, more than that before war happened an innocents were caught in the crossfire. The enlistments in that war and pretty much every patriotic cause thereafter have been founded on a grain of truth buried in a stack of propoganda.
Our government lies to us and herds of us like sheep. It teaches us a revised history in school. It teaches conformity in school. Picture our children being stamped one by one in a great convoluted Jello mold. It convinces us to give up our liberties one piece at a time. It okay to whine about one piece or another, but it happens so often on such a regular basis nowdays we hardly remember what
I second that. Sun's OpenPROM (Sun's version of OpenFirmware) is one of those details that help make Sparcs kick ass systems. The BIOS started as a "poor man's firmware" with all device interaction simplified into a "standard" set of hardware. Thus no new drivers would ever be needed, thus a simple program/set of interrupts worked perfectly. Yet today, we're trying to make PCs into high end workstations. We could do that far more effectivly if the BIOS didn't get in the way.
I'm curious. Does anyone know a reason why a PC BIOS chip couldn't be swapped with an OpenFirmware chip? I assume there are a few details such as launch location (0x07F0 IIRC) which must be taken into account. Plus, many OSes may have difficulties if the BIOS is not present. However, both those problems are fixable. Does anyone know of other issues?
More Info:
OpenFirmware
Free OpenFirmware Implementation
Javascript + Nintendo DSi = DSiCade
What I find interesting is that Taiwan's manufacturers have 80-odd percent of the motherboard market worldwide. And, since last I checked they haven't yet been annexed by the United States, I don't really see why they would give a rat's ass about "trusted computing" unless the marketplace demands it. If Phoenix, Award and AMI disappeared from the face of the Earth tomorrow, someone would come out with a compatible conventional BIOS in very short order. About the only thing I can see that would force them to produce DRM-based motherboards for the U.S. market would be some new laws making current designs illegal. That sounds farfetched, until you realize that Microsoft has a HUGE lobbying presence in Washington nowadays, and recently the Federal Government has been proving its willingness to meddle in technological affairs of which it understands nothing (witness the "broadcast flag" requirement for HDTV sets.) So my guess would be to start watching for a new "Consumer Data Protection Act" or something similar to show up in Congress, funded by Microsoft and its allies.
The higher the technology, the sharper that two-edged sword.
Industry standard company ditching their flagship product; consumer demand for said product remains strong; product still selling.
I'll use my contacts, call some venture capitalists, and get the ball rolling.
OK. Not really. But you get the idea. Whenever something like this happens, too many people pessimisticly assume that nothing can be done about it. They remind me of C3PO--"we're all doomed.".
No. You're not doomed. Crisis. Opportunity. Mmmmm... Crisitunity.
For all intensive purposes, "whom" is no longer a word. That begs the question, "who cares"?
While it's gonna get ugly in the US, I don't suspect that China would use a BIOS with built-in spyware or DRM. China, along with the largest population, has both the manufacturing power to create motherboards sans M$-DRM.
.... that will end this quickly.
In fact, it would be very surprising to me that most of the EU coutnries would submit to this kind of US verndor lock-in. I would expect to see non-TCP motherboards available for a while.
And when parts of the internet are "closed off" by TCP "checking" routers, then all holy hell will break loose. Wait until our neighbors can't get to "playboy.com"
megan@Outcastpr.com
:)
Interestingly they outsource their PR.
Above is the address of Megan Kurtz who is their public relations person. Get mailing now
I'm still suffering from this utter nightmare of Pentium III id codes that just made using the internet a living hell. No really, you remember when the sky fell back when they were announced?
/sarcasm
Also I'm upset because it's impossible to get around the DVD regions and watch discs from other countries. Asia fears the DMCA so much that it's impossible to find a player that does not submit to the region codes.
ok
Seriously, this isn't going to work. Taiwan will have cloned BIOSes out faster than you can say "Overclocking is popular!" and warez groups will have the can only run on trusted hardware feature of the next windows cracked faster than you can say "Product Activation".
Give it 8 months. Even if there isn't an outcry that gets it reversed or ignorable like the P3 chip codes, I'm betting some major MB manufacturer *coughABITcough* will have something like, dual bios, trusted/untrusted with a toggle between them.
As for network routers killing "untrusted" clients, how do businesses expect to keep their linux servers on the network? Yeah, I think either we'll be seeing other OSes support it, or it'll be turned off more often than on. Also what about network-aware appliances like attatched storage, printers etc? I doubt it'll be that easy to convince businesses to just toss them as incompatible. They probably will just patch their existing windows desktops and stay on 2000, xp, or 2003 or whatever doesn't have this nuisance. I know tons of places that still refuse to move up from 2000 to XP.
Also, if only "trusted" software runs, I'm curious how students will do programming assignments on their computers at college. Do they just stand in line for the woefully inadequate lab resources? Do they get "special for academic use only" versions of windows and MSVC that allows them to execute their own code? What does it mean for professional developers, no development station can ever be on the network because it can't be trusted? That's going to make for some intersting development and testing work.
Introducing the new Occam Fusion! Now with sqrt(-1) fewer blades!