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In Search of the Digital Uberdevice
Decaffeinated Jedi writes "News.com offers up an in-depth three-part article discussing the game industry's race to develop an all-in-one digital 'uberdevice' to combine gaming, television, computing, and other consumer technologies in a single box. The article looks at the past, present, and future of such trends, arguing that these developments in the world of home gaming consoles 'could have multibillion-dollar consequences for industries as diverse as computing, consumer electronics, entertainment and communications, while redefining household entertainment.' Of course, the article also concludes by noting the fact that consumers have thus far shown relatively little interest in adopting such all-in-one convergence boxes. Could constantly improving technology, the ongoing exodus of young males from primetime television, and a revitalized marketing push turn the tide, or is the search for an 'uberdevice' just hype?"
My computer. It's a computer, I can watch TV and movies on it, and I can play games on it. I can also use it to access the internet, and accomplish a variety of other things.
you could make a Beowulf cluster of these.
As long as its not a $3000 scooter...
So they make a digital uberdevice that does everything. Then what do they sell next xmas?
One line blog. I hear that they're called Twitters now.
it's interesting how the computer industry has always been driven in large part by games and game companies. Atari started out as a game company. I often wonder what is going to happen with PCs, whether the market for them is going to deteriorate as consoles become more prevalent. Are there going to be "consoles for the office," ie boxes specifically designed for doing a few things and incapable of anything else?
Big changes ahead.
Intolerance for ambiguity is the mark of the authoritarian personality.
Will they knock it off already?
A cell phone is a cell phone.
A PDA is a PDA.
A laptop is a laptop.
A music player is a music player.
Only large, bulky, overpriced devices come out of attempts to breed any of the above.
its hype..peop do not wnat ot be told wha tultimate4 devie they must have they want to pick and choose not MS..
You will insted see a set box hub that allows all devices to plugin wirelessly to what come sdown and up from the cable/dtv internet pipe..
But we have a long way to go for the infrastructure to be in place for developers so tha tits as easy to develop for as the J2ME mobiole device market now is..
But then again I am just a small devloepr setting up my startUp in Jan 2004 as a LLC..:)
Don't Tread on OpenSource
I have a VERY short attention span ("that dog has a puffy tail! c'mere puff!!" [Homer]) but right now I'm focused completely on MythTV I'm actually in the middle of installing and tweaking it right now, it mostly runs now. If I get it working seamlessly (meaning that it passes The Wife Test (tm)) then it will be the uberdevice in my house. Onscreen news and local weather Stream MP3s Play/Rip/Burn DVDs Timeshift TV and skip commercials Yes, quite uber.
CD-I lol
3DO lol
Xbox huge lol
Phantom what lol
Considering 99% of the time that such convergence devices have lower quality components - I'll never go as far to just purchase the device, I'll still buy individual components that I need.
For example, the XBox/PS2 can play DVDs, without progressive scan etc. and often are more finicky in general DVD playback.
The XBox can also do jukebox type activities... Sans playlists, song ratings, multiple file formats and ID3 tag sorting.
The multifunction device might work for the unwashed non-technical masses, but I'd like to have all of those features and more in my entertainment system.
--AlphaDecay
The XBox by Microsoft is the most notable of all attempts to make computers main stream, and hidden in a cute box. This attempt however was rushed by the demanding console market, and it had to be put out to avoid losing more ground.
I think that the XBox is a great system for it's time, and it's capabilities where only realized after it became modified.
Golem
the game industry's race to develop an all-in-one digital 'uberdevice' to combine gaming, television, computing, and other consumer technologies in a single box.
/.Sig, my...?
But, what will I do with my computer, my TV, my GameBoy, my iPod, my
Don't waste your vote! Vote for whoever you want, unless you live in a swing state it won't matter anyways
Basically, they take a computer and add a decent video card that lets you hook up a TV cable.
Bam, TV, computer, and games(computer).
So where are my "multibillion-dollar consequences"?
Intel has been plugging their "Digital Briefcase" initiative recently. Basically, they want to create a PDA/phone/blender type device with copius amounts of storage. The idea is to allow "Digital Briefcase" compliant PCs to automagically recognize the device via 802.11 (and/or Bluetooth) and subsequently allow a user to log into that PC as if it were their own - all settings, configuration, eye candy, etc are configured on-the-fly. The device would also hold a replica of the user's data (documents, MP3s, everything).
This seems like panacea and one might ask how Intel would cram such capability into such a small device. See my sig for more on that...
Life is the leading cause of death in America.
...There is simply more money to extract from stupid dumbass consumers in upgrading many devices rather than just one. But baiting with such plans intended to never be reached leads to better spoon feeding little pieces of convergence hype to the dumbass consumers to get them to feel good about being copper top.
Or maybe every time I want to listen to mp3's, I feel like dealing with an interface complicated enough to do not only that, but also record tv, download games, and make me a tuna fish sandwich.
It'll be great! Sony will come out with the playstation 6, but instead of just going out and buying a new console, I have to also pay for a new DVD player, DVR, and microwave, because it all comes together.
Yeah, let's just bundle everything together. We all know how well that works in the software world.
One time I threw a brick at a duck.
for example, with a TV/VCR or DVD combo, if the player goes, you also lose use of the TV if you get it fixed
Also, many all in one units employ certain engineering design choices that make them much cheaper to manufacture, and much harder to repair in general, precisely due to the feed back loops between the devices. You see this especially on the cube shaped audio units, but I don't think it changes much for TV units.
even with a hi-end name on them, I can't help but think of them as junque.
I would rather have a HDTV unit with a svga plug on it, vs a combo unit.
"It is a greater offense to steal men's labor, than their clothes"
Here's what I've got at home:
* Sony Playstation 2
* Hugues DirecTivo receiver (w/ two inputs, of course)
* Sony STR-DE995 receiver
* Numerous additional specialized components...including a VCR.
It's just not possible for any one company to take all of those functions and shove them into one box. What am I to do when my core receiver dies? Toss the whole thing? I think not...and I'm definitely NOT going for that service plan shit.
This is an example of an industry which has traditionally done very well with specialized components that do their jobs very well, much like any good UNIX command...and then can be combined into whatever the enduser wants and needs.
This is like the search for the single "holy grail" system...and it's not going to happen. The huge amount of diversity only limits the market for such a device.
If I felt like adding an XBox to the collection tomorrow, it wouldn't look out of place...but it would look kinda silly connected to my uberdevice stereo/dvd/cd/ps2/vcr combination unit.
Besides, fitting all the features into one box would be prohibitively expensive...and to make something like this affordable would only result in the sacrifice of features.
// Agent Green (Ian / IU7 / KB1JQO)
// IEEE 802.3: All 10base Are Belong To Us
It is a good idea, i was actualy thinking about picking up a few xboxes this christmas and setting them up as settops with wireless connections to my main box to serve movies and music. Maybe build a mythtv box too. then i shall be uber.
"I'm not high, just stupid" --JY
It's just hype
I don't see how convergence is possible because different consumer groups seek different functionalities in the device. Some people want a gaming platform, others want a DVR, some need a single-person home computer, others need a family home theater, etc.
Any device that tries to be all things to all people will fail. The device will be forced to include too much expensive hardware. Each feature and port (a hot GPU, large HD, DVI, VGA, NTSC, DOCSIS cable, ethernet) adds cost and complexity that not everyone wants to pay for. And the device will be unprofitable -- how can a company make up its losses on the bloated hardware if a large fraction of people don't buy gaming software or pay for monthly services?
Dreams of a convergent device assume convergent usage patterns and that will never happen.
Two wrongs don't make a right, but three lefts do.
Next question please.
I have noticed a trend among comments with slashdot stories, the highest commented stories are those with political or social links/ideas. For example, a few weeks ago when a story detailing L.A. County 'banning' the use of Master/Slave appeared the post recieved 2100+ comments. A simple look in the Hall of Fame reveals 8/10 most commented stories are primarily political/social. Most likely before nightfall today, Saddam Hussein Captured will, judging by previous stories, reach 3000+ comments.
Has anyone else noticed this trend?
"The truth suffers from too much analysis"
I can hardly contain my excrement...
From excellent karma to terible karma with a single +5 funny post...
Techies! Propellerheads! Geeks of all descriptions! Do you feel like someone is waging war on your way of life. Because I sometimes do! And I feel like we are loosing. Talk to me. Let me know I'm not alone in these views. I want to hear a friendly voice. Convergence, MS
Soluzar
Sign the FSF's Anti-DMCA petit
The idea will never catch on. People don't like to be locked in to one expensive product. Rather, they upgrade as they need to. Financially, it doesn't hurt the pocketbook as much as making one big purchase. Logically, it makes a lot more than having your big device get old, forcing you to upgrade everything whether or not it's necessary. As fast as technology advances, your big device will get old quickly.
A company might make an uberdevice, which is a horrible name for this idea, just to say that they did it. It still wouldn't make it a good idea.
Until Slashdot fixes the funny modifier, use insightful or interesting. The poster knows your intentions.
I personally hate the "integrated" devices. A VCR integrated into a TV set, a motherboard with integrated audio and video adapters, such shit. This kills modularisation and customisation. It's dumbing things down, so an idiot who can't plug a VCR into TV set doesn't need to. And of course you're stuck with worse quality components attached to the better ones. Say, I buy such an all-in-one gamebox and it works great as a MP3, DVD, VCD player, sat receiver and a few more. But after short time it starts to suck at games. And what am I going to do? I'll have to buy another DVD+VCD+MP3 player+sat receiver, replacing my perfectly good existing one, just to upgrade my gaming console.
45 5F E1 04 22 CA 29 C4 93 3F 95 05 2B 79 2A B2
Anything less will be err less. The only thing consoles have going for them is that they are cheap. They are cheap because they are designed for one purpose - gaming. Whats the definition of a PC? A general purpose computer that you can:
Play Games
Do general computing stuff
Watch TV
Communicate on the Internet
Isn't that the 'uberdevice'?
combining all these items (especially a desktop computer and a television) will only cause problems for familys, such as when one person wants to surf the internet and another person wants to watch television, keep these items seperate, i see no problem with making a television internet aware for things like multimedia and surfing the WWW and email, and putting a PCI TV card in a computer...
But an easy way for your devices to communicate is needed. As a geek I can easily put together any stereo, video, gaming, blah blah blah system. Alot of just wants to be able to plug the device into any spot and have it work. What would really be cool is a hub like device the make it easier for people to connect different entertainemnt compents and have them work nicely with each other.
Get Movie Posters
Was a "student stereo" with AM/FM, record player, cassette, 8-track. I had all media types covered!
One line blog. I hear that they're called Twitters now.
[naive girl mode]
Wow, so, you mean, like, I can watch TV, play games and listen to music all the same? And maybe also write e-mail, browse the 'net and maybe do my homweork?
Wow, this is, like, totally cool!
[/naive]
Now, let's look at this in a critical way:
Music - wondering if I saw a PC lately without a sound card... hmm, gues not
TV - snap a 20-40$ TV-tuner into your PC... tada, you got a TV
DVDs/etc - (almost) any PC can do that
Computing - Email, internet, a word processor, spreadsheets, image editing? You don't need more CPU power than a PS1 for that...
Gaming - THIS is the most CPU- and graphics-intensive part
So, in one word: add a TVTuner to ANY console nowadays, make a handfull of tweaks, and whoops you have it - the all-in-one wonderfull device everybody craves.
Guess the ONLY limiting issue here is cost (remember X-Box under-the-limit price?)
I'll take my PC over any of those.
But "ordinary people" like John Smith would go for the "all-in-one-thingy".
Guess it's only a matter of taste or advertising...
Or isn't?
By reading this signature you agree to not disagree with the post you just read.
I'd settle for an Uberdevice that replaces all my AC adapters. These annoying things tend to hog 2 or 3 outlets due to their size, and it seems such a waste to have reconvert the AC over and over again for every device. They tend to become disassociated with their parent units over time, and my house is littered with orphan AC adapters that I don't know whether to throw away or not because I no longer know what they were for. And then there are the units with different milliamps but the same kind of plug, that you don't know what goes where (after a cleanup to untangle all the wires) without consulting the manuals, which of course have disappeared (another subject). And let's not get into orphaned and missing remotes...
it's spelled with a umault over the "u" like this:
uber.
FNPCTBAFP?
How about the Treo600? It's a computer, PDA, color display, stereo MP3 player, 4band phone, 56Kbps+ Net terminal, game player, and more. Its SDIO slot can take "cartridges" for better games, including coprocessors for video. It's even got an uberdevice price: at MSRP $500, it costs less than the sum of its parts, but more than many desktop computers.
--
make install -not war
Help, this scares me!
Q: What can you sit on, sleep on, and brush your teeth with?
A: A Chair, a bed and a toothbrush.
Some thing we don't want to combine. If a tool does a job, then let it do its own job. Don't try to force another tool to do the same thing.
There are certain things that lend themselves to each other. However, computers and televisions are not two of these things. While they are very similar from a design poiint of view, the way we use these devices is quite different, and so are our demends for these items. I for one would prefer a smaller computer. However, I want a much bigger TV. The main difference seems to be A TV is a passive form of entetainment that several people can enjoy at once, whereas a computer typically only has one user at a time.
Certainly some things should be combined. A PVR and digital decoder can be combined, and these seem to be very popular. It would be nice to also combine these with a television. This does not mean that everything else also makes sense in this respect. My DVD player does not need to be networked. I just want it to play DVDs. If I want to play a DVD on my computer, I'll get a DVD-ROM drive.
We can combine these things. But should we?
Hmmm... What if you could have the mythical convergence box of the future - today!
MythTV does the trick for me.
Games, music, movies, web browsing, TV (timeshifting and recording), DVDs, pictures, weather...
What else do you need in the ultimate set-top box? MythTV does all of these.
...is that if you like it really nice and compact, you could put it in a small-size nice-looking case that would even go mobile and...
:)
Oh, wait, isn't that called a "Laptop"?
By reading this signature you agree to not disagree with the post you just read.
... to choose from on the market today, the one that makes HDTV pervasive will be the one that differentiates itself and wins the competitive war.
So far non of them seem close, they're all much of a muchness, the plans that the gaming industry seem to be talking about are just more of the same.
I realize I will most likely get mod'd down for this but I need help and don't know where else to turn. We need a PHP for a day or two this coming Tuesday & possibly Wednesday. For more information, please read my journal.
http://slashdot.org/~johndoesovich/journal
Hmmz, I guess I really hate spamming my own posts, but I tend to post then remember some other stuff...
[mental image]
Imagine sidetalkin' with a Laptop 8-|
[/mental image]
By reading this signature you agree to not disagree with the post you just read.
I don't think everything CAN be converged like this, they take time for consumers to shift opinions. Trying to fit six devices in one absolutely freezes a device as laughable as the worst of them. Let's say you get PDA, Laptop, Television, iPod and radio in one. Good, it's cool in theory until people realise they're not going to use the laptop features and they don't watch television anyway, anbd the other features could be made smaller again - why not get something cheaper and more suited to their purposes
It's a bit like an all-in-one box from the 1980s; AM Radio, Beta video box, Television and Atari games all in one.
Perhaps only the Radio and Television side may have been useful 5 years after it's released, but even then they're a perfectly good television saddled with crap AM radio and the Atari side is broken, with the only component unused being the Beta, only cos it was so unsupported.
People LIKE a single use, elegant solution like an iPod. They can wrap their heads around it, see "music player" and while it's pricey, they're able to justify a purchase on its price because all its features are related to cool, transportable audio.
I don't get this. The description sounds, to me, like this thing I've heard of called a "computer." I can use it to "compute," but I can also use it to play games and watch television. Oooh, Aaah... In fact, I own one of these "uberdevices." And I do all of these things with it and more.
No, seriously, though, I do use my computer to watch TV. I haven't felt the need to purchase a television since I moved back to Mexico. I suppose if I decide to actually start watching TV shows with someone else (Unlikely; I have no friends.), I might consider a television.
...until it's too cool to hang out with you anymore. My nGage would rather pal around with my iPod than be seen with me.
For me personally I enjoy having each function in a seprate box over an all in one combination. I have a multitude of devices that are totally redundant such as:
Ps2 with DVD controler
DVD player
2 PC's with dvd-rom drive
But overall I find I use my small $50 dvd player over the other two choices because there is no boot time and it does its job well. The problem I have with all in one devices is that it takes a realitivly long time to accsess the things you want and it is more combersome then other single focus devices. where on a PC I would have to go through 4 commands to change my anime from english to japanese with english subs my dvd player has 1 physical button that does it. It may sound extreamly lazy but for me I am a well paid sys admin and I know the value of cron jobs and perl scripts =)
Never could figure out why my girl liked my bitch tits, then I found out she was a lesbian.
Competition. There will not be an "uberdevice" unless it is the be-all and end-all of entertainment, with accessories and games, etc. sold everywhere and shareable with everyone.
But no manufacturer wants to share the market with other manufacturers. Microsoft and Sony will not have compatible games or accessories on their "superdevice" and because of this, consumers lose interest because they can't share with their friends and neighbors with different "superdevices," be sure of buying an accessory and being able to use it for many years and across brands, etc. And thus no "superdevice" will become an "uberdevice."
This will remain true until manufacturers are willing to cling to standards like the DVD standard not just for films and music but also for games, for accessories, for connectivity, etc. and also until they are willing to sacrifice repeat sales (a.k.a. "upgrades" to the new model) in the interest of backward and forward compatibility.
Since neither of these things will ever happen, there will never be an "uberdevice" because not enough consumers will really want one (given these limitations) to make it universal.
STOP . AMERICA . NOW
I use the computer, surf tv and someone else is playing a video game on the tv's split screen, all at the same time. Why would I want to destroy that ability by putting everything in the same box??
perl -e '$_="\007/4`\cp%2,".chr(127);s/./"\"\\c$&\""/gees
The uberdevice is here, and ofcourse ir runs Linux;)
There are some projects as Freevo or MythTV also, that started as "MediaBoxes" but are getting more more and features, so they are becoming the uberdevice.
For example, im writing this comment at my TV using a little mini-itx C3 800 powered box, as small and noisy as a video or dvd player, running Freevo(http://freevo.sourceforge.net) and Debian Sid
It featuresTV watching, recording tv guides, weather, audio and video playback(anything that mplayer can play) games emulators(mame, sness, etc) web browser, and any app you what to launchit you dare to tweak some freevos plugins.
The only thing missing is TV shift, that is under development.
A very interesting option, that for my surprise i haven't seen many discusions about freevo in slashdot.
... the only thing stopping me from using my Clie for everything - email, phone, watching TV, etc. - is *a complete lack of software*.
Hardware-wise, the Clie NX70V - while being a little outdated by now - has everything I need in order to converge all my devices into one... but it appears that Sony don't want that to happen, and have done everything they can to ensure their Video/Audio API is broken for this use.
; -- the corruption of government starts with its secrets. a truly free people keep no secrets. --
I had a dream (yes I'm nerdy enough to have dreams about gadgets) the other week about a device I would snatch up the second it came out onto the market. I should probably patent this idea because I bet everyone else would want one too. But how cool would it be to have a cellphone, pda, and mp3 player in one with a good sized (40 gig?) harddrive in it to hold all my stuff. I'm aware they have made devices close to this, but not with the harddrive. And most of them are quite bulky in size too. I could watch movies while driving and talking to someone at the same time! YAY!
----------------------
58.0% slashdot corrupt
I agree entirely. A better way forward, looking at what works at present and ideas that have stood the test of time, is a combination of two things:
What amazes me is that none of the big cross-media types (Sony and their like) has yet developed a central "hub" technology, and standard interfaces to connect the various components that form part of any home entertainment or computer system today. The precedents are all there: using a PC or console as a central control system, connecting up your satellite/TV/video with SCART, and so on. Surely the money will be rolling in for whoever corners the market in connectivity technology for modular home entertainment/computer systems...
If you disagree, post your argument. (-1, Overrated) isn't your personal censorship tool for views you don't like.
Mobile phones include a dinky webbrowser or e-mail client, now cameras and mp3 players, dvd players will play (s)vcd, playstation 2 will play dvds.. Not necessarily because convergence is an exciting new thing, but because an additional function is what marketeers call "added value". That's why cars have a stereo and a lighter. It's not about integrating your "smoking lounge" with your method of transportation, but easily achieved added value at such a low cost that dis-integrating it isn't worth it to the manufacturer even for low cost models. That's why non-smokers (and non-gagdet using) drivers have lighters in their cars too..
Of course, if you ask people, do you want a device that plays DVDs, picks up terrestrial digital television, plays MP3s, and cooks a turkey, they'll look at you quizzically and say "why would I want that?". But once they're at Joe's TV Emporium and they can buy a device that cooks turkeys as well for only $2 more.. Guess what they'll do?
SCO employee? Check out the bounty
"Of course, the article also concludes by noting the fact that consumers have thus far shown relatively little interest in adopting such all-in-one convergence boxes."
This is B.S. I haven't seen one convergence box. Sure "MSN TV" is based on dial up, and the other lame excuses for convergence boxes never had broadband. I had to build my own for personal use because there is nothing that satisfies my needs, so much for available convergence boxes.
Entrepreneurship is the act of finding a problem that has no solution in the current market, developing a solution for that problem, and making that solution available (hopefully at a profit).
Marketing is the act of taking a product and attempting to increase existing consumer demand for that product.
Marketing without entrepreneurship doesn't work (despte all the marketroids wishing really hard that it would). This strikes me as one of those cases. Entrepreneurship requires the existence of a problem, and the lack of a solution. Here we have the reverse case - people aren't asking for an entertainment convergence device, as evidenced by the fact that there are already solutions on the market that aren't selling.
A quick editorial comment on why: The components advance at a different rate. Integrating those components means that when you want to get the latest Playstation, you have to upgrade your television (or whatever the converged device is). All upside for Sony, all downside for the consumer. As long as Sony (or whoever) is letting the marketing people make decisions that should be left to the entrepreneurs, these things are going to keep popping up.
Stop-Prism.org: Opt Out of Surveillance
Content is king.
Art evolves. You can't make money on evolutionary processes. Broadband is making the PC more viable. Game consoles look more like PCs and PCs look more like game consoles. People play DVDs on game consoles, stand alone DVD players, or their PC.
It's the open architecture that wins out. Why? Because the best content isn't manufactured. It's designed by people who love to create. The best games are designed by the creative storytellers. The best modern day content has mostly been created by geeks who where obssessed about film, books, or traditional games. Of course, that's calling people like Lucas and Speilberg geeks. Less is more. The true creative geniuses usually get their reward. They may not "maximize" their profit, but they usually do well. Heck, the inventor of VisiCalc (the first spreadsheet application) felt guilty he made so much money on it. People flock to content, because it is a true commidity.
Take a look at LOTR. I'm not a LOTR fan and I fell asleep mid way through the picture (3 hours is too much for me). My friends loved it. I recognize why people like it. It's a well crafted world brought to life in a way only a geek could do. That's what sells.
Nobody wants to sell content at a reasonable price. Most MBAs don't know how to handle it. Of course some people argue that the entire concept about the modern day MBA is devoid of content. That's the problem.
Have you ever played those retropacks of old video games. Yeah, $50 bucks buys you 10 really old (classic) games ported to run on a uberfast processor (console). What the heck? It can't possibly cost that much to port an old game. Heck, write an emulator for it.
Content is the true killer app. That's why MBAs are so scared to sell it cheap. They understand that they can't manufacture it. It just has to happen. There's no profit in evolution.
Just a random thought, do you think that writing can actually be improved by regex? My english teacher didn't think so. Prehaps I should try and patent the non-deterministic essay while I still have a chance.
What do you mean my sig is repetitive? What do you mean my sig is repetitive? What do you mean....
The problem with putting everything in one box is the weakest link problem. Whenever any one thing breaks or becomes obsolete and you want to upgrade, you usually need to throw out the entire box. PCs get around this with standard parts but the average joe or my mom is not going to go grab a screwdriver and pop open a PC to install a new video card. Think they're going to swap hard drives and tuner cards on a set top PVR so they can reccord HDTV now? No. If this kind of thing was really appealing to consumers, every TV would have a VCR and a DVD player. Do they make these? Yes. Are they popular? Not really. They made TVs with radios back in the day too, do we have them now? A few.
What's really going to kill this is WIRELESS. If all the devices in the house can interoperate over 802.11g, bluetooth, etc, then you HAVE a "virtual uberdevice". It's just a matter of getting the functionality to be seamless, and that'll take some work. Once you can stream your video files from your PVR to any TV in your house, stream your TV's captured input to your PC to edit, stream your ipod's mp3s to your stereo etc, then who needs to put it all in one box? Intel is working on putting RF in silicon so this kind of thing will be pretty cheap to add to any device. Multiple devices will probably be more expensive overall, but easier to upgrade. Will there be all in ones? Yeah, and I'll probably buy one for my mom because she'll never care to upgrade it. But anyone who swaps TVs or DVD players every couple years (gotta have that progressive scan!) or upgrades their PC at least once a year will probably go for seperate networked appliances.
The downfall of this is getting it to work right and interchangeably. I expect Sony or someone to show up with this idea fairly soon but screw it up so that only THEIR brand devices work with each other. Then the market will bemoan this for a year or 2 until someone like Intel or MS comes up with a standard. Apple/Sony/Phillips will then come up with competing standards, and after another 3 years of fighting one of them should either win out or all devices will support all the standards because it's become cheap enough.
So we should see it around 2007-2009. Probably about the time everyone's swapping out their obsolete DVD players for HDVD players and people are buzzing about upcoming Xbox3/PS4.
Introducing the new Occam Fusion! Now with sqrt(-1) fewer blades!
Then geeks around the world could actually rejoin the rest of humanity, and not have to walk around like Batman with his utility belt!
Manipulate the moderator system! Mod someone as "overrated" today.
The next consoles will simply try to capture the consumers with one central device, gaming, PVR, audio, tv. People might only buy it for the gaming or the PVR or a combination but the bet is that they will use it for different applications and buy content/extensions etc from sony. (or ms).
It's got very little to do with consumer interest in the combination its got everything to do with Sony learning from microsoft on how to lock people into their solutions..
Of those to whom much is given, much is required.
They're already emerging, but it seems to me the ultimate uberdevice will be one you carry in your pocket. Cell phone, PDA, game unit, GPS, net surfer, book reader... We're already seeing the emergence of devices like these, but they could be so much better...
oaky, for once i read the article, and then this comes up: "They're not going to get very involved in distractions," said Jeff Brown, a vice president at leading game publisher Electronic Arts. "I have a cell phone, and I have a toaster. If they included a cell phone on my toaster, I probably wouldn't make any fewer calls because I was spending so much time eating toast." hey, great for going to veery long movies though!
*resistance is futile, or fuzzy, i dunno*
If my wife wants to watch "Will and Grace" using this "uberdevice"... I can't pick up my game console and go to the other TV with it, because in this "uberdevice" world that device is my game console.
Why would I sacrifice flexibility? This is a similar reason that I'm just not interested in the "DVD Player selling point" of the PS2 and XBox -- I can't do both at the same time if they are the same device.
MORTAR COMBAT!
...which is why the current (computer) system works. Your computer can easily be your TV, stereo, DVD player, gaming system, phone, etc., without even costing that much (those capabilities have been around for a decade, and unless you buy top-of-the-line, they're cheap). Each of those components is separate within the box, so you can upgrade each piece as necessary. The problem is that current computer-integrated systems are just too complex for the task.
What's really needed is just a better UI for current technology . We need a modular OS that changes entirely based on active function. A TV mode, a stereo mode, a traditional computer mode, etc.. A simple button to switch to a different mode, and each would have as simple an appearance as possible. The stereo mode doesn't need anything but stereo functions, and play/stop/pause/etc should be 50% of the screen (should be touchscreen, too). Basically, there's no reason for someone to use a mouse or keyboard when watching TV. If someone can make a seamless system to do all of this (and not require the user know anything about programming or hardware installation), it could be a goldmine.
G
yeah we need InfiniBand home gaming console.
then we would have a unified switching fabric and we could just plug components in and mix and match at will. so that the audiovisuals of my favorite game could be channeled through my wireless headset while the speakers in the studio can play live365 or viceversa
Hey guys, what is the problem?
That first sylable is used so often I'd thought I'd give some details on it. /. or other computer geek contexts. I've actually caught the one or other person even emulating the american way of pronouncing 'Uber', namely with the leading english 'oo' sound rather than the german 'ue'.
Uber (actually it's a 'U' with two dots on the top which can be substituted with 'Ue' in emergencies: Ueber) Translates from german into 'Over'.
So it would be 'Overdevice' or 'Ubergerat' (Uebergeraet) in german.
Which in german sounds just as aqward as in english.
It's a humorous approach to the bizar and ultrafashist concept of the 'Overhuman' aka 'Ubermensch' propagated by the Nazis in the 'Third Realm' aka 'Drittes Reich' or, mixed again,:'Third Reich'. The Nazis propagated that the 'white race' in gerneral and the 'german race' especially were generally superior 'superrace' as opposed to the bolschweistic jewish asian [fill in Nazi enemy/scapegoat/target of choice here] race of the 'Underhuman' ('Untermensch').
Curiously this term has had a slight renaissance within the german geek community where it is used in the same context as here on
Sidenote (from a german that formerly was an american citizen):
If you at times like to think in nationalistic terms (which is generally wrong) picture the thoughoughness that goes into the engineering of a product that is a clichee for german quality, like for instance, a mercedes. And then imagine the same amount of sense of 'quality' going into the engineering of a fashist political enviroment. Then you get the impression of why even such a 'Uberasshole' Saddam Hussein and his minions are dwarved by the Nazis and their shockingly 'superiour', precise and thourough impressioning of the antichrist. I'm shure Saddam Hussein is the more type of guy to kill people himself than Adolf Hitler, but that's what made the Nazi Camps so 'unique' and 'perfect' in killing: A mechanisim that wouldn't require direkt human interaction to kill people. A killing factory, so to speak.
We suffer more in our imagination than in reality. - Seneca
a device is secondary.. we just need an ultimate universal interface which can be made to work with any other device- including a display and input method (along with audio and uh.. smell, or something, of course)
When all your devices act like one, you don't need a single all-doing device (and don't need to buy a new blender to get an updated toaster)
-- 'The' Lord and Master Bitman On High, Master Of All
No way! My dream digital convergence is the Phone + PDA + Music player. Complete convergence can be bad for reasons listed above but there are some things that should be merged. By your argument:
A monitor is a monitor.
A keyboard is a keyboard.
A speaker is a speaker.
which implies laptops are bad...?
Some things naturally fit together, especially things that have redundent or related parts. A PDA + Phone + Music player of appropriate size and cost (yes, that's key, I know) would steal the market.
The only important thing your phone does that your PDA doesn't is connect to another device using the cellular network... which some PDA's do... and contains a speaker and microphone.
The only important thing an iPod has that on a PDA in terms of functionality is basically (yes, I'm generalizing) the _Hard Drive_ in the iPod. The average PocketPC can play music, it just can't play very much.
Nobody complains that the PS2 plays DVDs. Yes, absurd convergence and combination is bad and being _FORCED_ to use said convergence devices is even worse. But if it's natural to combine functionality, great! And there are some people who don't ascribe to the "UNIX Way." My grandma, for one, likes her TV w/VCR & DVD player in it and single, easy to use remote... she'd adore an iMac if she weren't content with her 200mhz P1 for checking e-mail...
The problem here is the marketing. Young males (read: geeks) don't want a convergence device but (my) grandma does. Change your market focus oh corporate masters and let us poor geeks alone... unless you're giving me my iPod + PDA + Phone.
Conventional wisdom is that devices converge, but the opposite has actually tended to be true. For instance, when the computer first appeared on the scene as a mainframe, it didn't converge with other office devices such as copiers or time clocks. Instead, computer categories divided -- into mini-computers and then personal computers and then further divided into laptops and desktops. There are all sorts of specialty devices now, and we STILL have the old mainframes around in various forms.
Going back to what an example of convergence would have been if we were looking at it long ago, you could make a technical argument that the computer and the copier DID converge, because today's copier IS a sophisticated computer in many ways. (Even a time clock is a simple computer instead of an old-fashioned mechanical device.) But just because computer technology is incorporated into a copier, that doesn't mean it's a general-purpose converged device. Instead, it's a copier and we don't even think about the computing power instead.
Devices are defined by what users believe they are, not what they're actually capable of. Just because a cell phone can take a picture doesn't mean that the customer thinks he's buying a camera when he gets one. To him, it's still a phone. Over time, people might come to think of a camera as being a natural feature of a phone, but it's STILL going to be considered a phone.
In the same way, it would be natural -- if convergence were really the way the market worked -- that we would all have one device that was a television, radio, CD player, DVD player, speakers, etc. Instead, we tend to have a separate TV, receiver, maybe an amplifier, a CD player, a DVD player and separate speakers -- all wired together. (I suspect the distinction between a DVD player and CD player might eventually go away, but only because they use the same form factor as far as the user is concerned. The user would just consider it is disc player.)
Convergence sounds like such a reasonable idea when you hear companies laying out their grand strategies, but it just doesn't seem to work that way in the real world. Iconoclastic marketing gurus Al Ries and Jack Trout have written a lot about this subject from the viewpoint of marketing and have explained why divergence is a more natural direction for markets than convergence. Although their arguments were counter-intuitive to me from a technical perspective, I believe they're right based on both history and human psychology.
Every time we think "Oh I can store lots of movies on a hard drive" or "Lots of music"
I disagree. I think this is the beginning.. the very beginning, of what we will become. People storing terabytes of data at home will be normal, and no big deal. We won't worry about hard drives crashing.
We are still coming into the information age, and to think we have mastered it is silly.
We are still seeing an old economy grasping at bits of data, trying to hold on to their old-world products as we digitize them, and make them available to everyone.
I long for the day when software-defined radio can allow me to use one single device and have it adapt through software to whatever task I want it to do.
Imagine having a PDA that can pick up HDTV signals, calculate GPS positions, make calls via GSM and monitor your local police frequencies. It could communicate via any of the 802.11 standards, participate in a Bluetooth network, unlock your car and open your garage door.
And at the bottom of it all is a software stack, able to monitor and analyze any kind of RF signal and dynamically demodulate, decode it all, and respond.
That's what I want for Christmas.
What amazes me is that none of the big cross-media types (Sony and their like) has yet developed a central "hub" technology, and standard interfaces to connect the various components that form part of any home entertainment or computer system today.
Not surprising at all for a few reasons:
Supporting a single standard would require paying license fees to the standard holder (an advantage that no company wants to give to another). DVD-R and DVD+R is one example.
The entertainment industry is still afraid of VCR-like technology after 20+ years. They'll go to great lengths to hobble any standard interface proposals with Digital Restrictions Methods (ala DAT tape decks). Macrovision, CSS, etc.
When a company commits to supporting an open standard, it has to compete. No company likes to do this, it's much *easier* to lock the consumer into a proprietary format (have a Sony tape deck? they'd much prefer that you'd have to buy another Sony device to interface with it). Given the choice between tilting the playing field in favor of themselves vs competing fairly, a company will act solely in self-interest.
Wolde you bothe eate your cake, and have your cake?
MythTV-Xbox distro
Convergence devices will not take off until they fit in your pants pocket.
Just like cell phones didn't take off until they fit in your pocket,
Just like PDAs didn't take off until they fit in your pocket,
Just like Game Boys were only for kids until they made one that fit in your pocket,
Just like mp3 jukeboxes didn't take off until there was one that fit in your pocket.
I look at the current convergence devices like the Clies and I wonder... I can carry my Palm in one pocket and the iPod in the other, and yet if I buy a device to serve both tasks it will not fit in either pocket. Where will I carry it?
HOWEVER this does not apply to cameras. Most of the components of the mythical convergence device can be miniaturized, but camera optics can't really. There needs to be an adequate aperture and a long enough focal length or any picture you take is going to look like dim blurry crap. I'f I want to be taking pictures I will carry a proper camera. So I would like my convergence device without the crappy camera please.
I have a positive modifier on Troll. When I mod someone Troll their karma should go UP!
Sure, you're still going to have specialized devices and equipment. I'd love to get some specialized speakers and a better soundcard for my PC, an easily portable from my PC system for my car and for taking on walks - but those are still basically wishlists for attaching things to my PC.
I want EVERYTHING to work through my PC. I want to be able to naturally and presumptiously be able to do things like query my car computer for gas mileage over a wireless device, send over my music from my computer over the same connection and use my vehicle and home PC station to port to my cellphone/mp3player/camera.
The uberdevice these guys are seeking really isn't so much a matter of convergence as it is seeking a common state of connection, because who really cares if your devices aren't in the same box when they're all talking to each other and singing the same tune. My stereo and my television are different devices too, but they're controlled by the same remote so they blend together. If ALL my devices blend together that way, and are expected by the public to blend together that way I think it's a good thing.
Sayeth the poster:
Given the choice between tilting the playing field in favor of themselves vs competing fairly, a company will act solely in it's stock-holder's self-interest.
Fixed that for you! See SCOX
And of course those that are easily flummoxed by technology. I'm sure you've heard laments like "S-Video this, Component that, recievers, formats, scan this, scan the other thing, I just want it all to WORK!" Well the Uber device is here for ya, bud. Plug it in and you're ready to go.
Will they replace piecemeal systems? Unlikely. People that want optimum performance will still be able to buy individual components. I wouldn't be surprised if piecemeal components didn't get more expensive though. Making lower cost another attraction for Uber systems.
I want augmented and virtual reality ala GhostInTheShell & Matrix, and it won't be SciFi for long.
--
Power to the Peaceful
This is stupid. So with an 'uberdevice" if it breaks I can't watch tv, use the internet, listen to music or cook a burrito? What I'm saying is seperation of purpose is a fairly good thing. Ever hear of "Jack of all trades master of none"?
Presume that you have invented the "ultimate" digital device. It does everything and does it well. It is convenient, never breaks, never needs consumables, and is owned (not licensed) by the user.
It's cheap, too.
The minute such a device appears, thousands of marketing drones at dozens of major corporations begin working on a campaign to convince us this one sucks and we need to buy theirs.
"Reality is that which, when you stop believing in it, it doesn't go away." - Philip K. Dick
It's called a computer.
Is this what we're all trying to create? This is the best thing that we could, as engineers, ever imagine creating? Time to set our sights a little higher, don't you think? How about better alternative energy, or space travel, or... Something better than wireless streaming HDTV movies on your wristwatch.
Thank you for the link. At this time I do not have SIP working over 802.11 and I lack SIP code for Palm OS.
So until I have SIP working and code for Palm OS, the lack of a cellphone/Palm OS device/802.11 is not a concern, and gives me no reason to upgrade my Visor/Visorphone.
By the time I "need" SIP+802.11, I hope a palmOS/Sybian device will exist, otherwise I'll swallow my pride and buy a Microsoft-based phone, esp. if UNIX-Pocket PC sync tools exist.
that describe how to build a pc
Why do they only want to sell me one device?
Just probably not in the manner that the gaming industry would expect, or at least, not in a manner suitable for such a dangerous economic venture. I would LOVE to have home entertainment "modules." And essentially, we already have many things I would like. Home-built PVRs are very real and successful. Consumers are enjoying them, and I have my own plans to build one in the near future. What I would LOVE is a component, or set of components, that would allow me to play PS2 games on such a box though. It would be nice if there was a PCI card/SCSI device which I could put on my motherboard. Once installed it would be configured to use the on-board DVD-Rom. They might even want to provide a USB component which would allow PS2 controllers to be plugged in. I guess my point is that I wouldn't spend $3000, $2000, or even $1000 on a home-theater uber-device with everything built in. But under the x86 modular upgrading capabilities the initial cost would suddenly become justified in my mind, as I wouldn't have to buy a new $1000 device every 3 years, but upgrade the ones I feel require upgrades.
The argument that you need separate devices for everything doesn't hold water. Twenty years ago, many folks argued over stereo receivers vs. component systems. Yes, the components were frequently higher quality, but as time goes on you get to a point where the quality is GOOD ENOUGH. It's hard to even find separate amp, preamp, and tuner components now...okay, it's not that hard, but they're not common anymore. The same will likely happen with the cell phone, camera, mp3-player, PDA, kitchen sink...weather you like it or not.
Just another day in Paradise
At any time during the past 50 years, we could have been using TV/radio combination devices rather than the separate components we use now.
Combinations only make sense when one component is used exclusively with another. TV/VCR combos work because there will never be a situation when you would need the VCR independently.
But how many times have you had the radio and TV on at the same time? Or the TV, computer, and game system on at the same time? If those things were combined, you would have to interupt the game to IM your friend - and instead of just turning your head toward the TV to see what's going on, you'd have to switch modes on your one screen.
In general, I think people want more screen real estate, not less, yet combining these devices means reduces the area.
It seems more 'efficient' to have devices that do double- or triple-duty, but in reality it's as practical as those combination salt/pepper/sugar shakers that some people have.
every stain tells a story
There can be only one digital uberdevice, The Orgasmotron. The best digital stimulation money can buy.
Now we can get one device that does 5 things badly instead of 5 devices that do 1 thing well.
Multifunctional my ass!
1. It will have to be as reliable as the most reliable component that it's replacing. This won't happen.
2. Upgrade of a single component would no longer be possible. This will piss people off who don't want to buy a whole new unit just to play the latest game.
3. Monolithic is stupid.
Simple solution: build components designed to integrate perfectly with one another and sell them as just that--components.
Example is the home theater systems. For many, systems such as the Sony Dream system works great for them while others like me who are audio/videophiles tend to preferr the component setup with our seperate players, amps, and other equipment.
PC Games have pushed the development of the PC more than business computing or anything else. To turn that into a Xbox takes away from the PC where hardware makers would have to detract from the PC side to meet the demands of the console gaming side. However this may change with the adoption of high resolution TV's the demand for console systems to have PC equivalent grapics performance will begin to go through the roof. It may lead to a exodus to the PC for those in search of better gaming expericene, or you get a different group of console systems with varying prices.. such as a Xbox and a Xbox Hidef version.
One of the more annoying things however is the lack of intergration (IMO the way to go) of your home electronics. I should be able to intergrate my computer systems with my entertainment systems and vice versa which is yet to happen. I'd love to have a TiVO that would use my home SAN to save the movies on rather than on it's puny 40 gig drive.
I want my music wherever and whenever which today is still impossible due to the outbound bandwidth restrictions of my DSL lines and very few companies offer upstream bandwidth past the 128k for less than a arm and a leg. I know this was to stem the abuse of the networks but in reality that's less of a concern today than 3 years ago when the networks were relatively new.
Either way there may be a all in one device but many times unless the parts are user serviceable and replaceable for a fraction of the unit cost and upgradable they're all doomed to eventual failure.
LOL the Phantom is supposed to be upgradeable in that aspect that it (if ever released) would be preferred by hard core console gamers over their out of date xbox or PS2's.
Internet, games, and TV all in one...
Its called a computer.
I completely take your point about wanting to control the standards; that's why I gave Sony as an example or a company that might do it. They already make TVs, audio gear, computers and so on, all themselves. If they could establish a definitive home entertainment kit, and get everyone buying their hubs, then everyone would be buying their other kit (or somebody else's compatible kit, giving them licensing income instead) and they'd be laughing all the way to the bank.
If you disagree, post your argument. (-1, Overrated) isn't your personal censorship tool for views you don't like.
I'd just like to point out that the new PS2's do have progressive scan - Not that I'm getting one as a DVD player though...
I am unique, just like you, and you, and you...
The ability to control the user end of all media pipelines creates such financial opportunity that businesses will not stop until they have created attractive all-in-one solutions. (Monthly and specific fees for upload and download of different content. Primary portal control for advertising up to only allowing propriety services.) The consumer will bite because they will want the simplified interface that only an uberdevice can provide, and the loss-leading price point that corporations will offer to win the all-in-one set-top-box war. (Directivo and cell-phones are both free or deeply discounted with a one or more year contracts.) The ability to have broad control over real configuration and feature set is the domain of hobbyists (read slashdotters.) The fear of losing all functions for increased periods when one function fails, can be addressed by quick replacement and data transfer policies. The uberdevice is not hype, it's inevitable.
Weren't we in awe last year over the idea that all-in-one computing would die soon?
...game industry's race to develop an all-in-one digital 'uberdevice' to combine gaming, television, computing, and other consumer technologies in a single box...
I already have one of these, It's called a PC. End of story.
-D
It's like trying to combine a conventional oven, a microwave oven, and a toaster oven.
Each of these things performs well for a particular problem domain.
Trying to combine them into one device (as some companies have) results in a device that doesn't do a particular job as well as using a more specialized device.
In addition, if the device breaks down, you have no backup.
My father recently bought a T.V. with a built-in DVD player.
The only reason that he bought the combined unit is that it was about the same price as a similar-quality T.V. without the DVD player.
Otherwise, he would have bought the T.V. and DVD player separately.
The fact that there are very few combination units, and the fact that those that do exist cost about the same as a standalone T.V., are good indicators of the unpopularity of combination units.
Now, combination units have their place: for example, in a crowded office environment, it might make sense to buy a combination printer/fax/copier.
In most cases, however, it makes more sense to buy separate items, so that one can upgrade them individually as one needs to.
In summary, I doubt very much that a Digital "Uberdevice" will exist any time soon.
Those who sacrifice security to condemn liberty deserve to repeat history or something. - Benjamin Santayana
Having an uberbox combining these mildly related things is an interesting idea. Picture if you will if someone created an uber-box-receiver with built in cd player, tape deck, amplifier, and even comes with some nifty speakers. Oh, such things already exist. And while they can be useful (they're often a great deal), they're decidedly mediocre. Trying to merge everything into one box means that the one box is a jack of all trades, but master of none. It might make a nice base system, but if you can afford it you'll want to consider dedicated stereo components. Trying to unify things too early (video game systems and digital television records are still changing rapidly) will lead to unified devices that become obsolete too rapidly (like early unified receivers that lack a CD player, or don't have an input for hooking you DVD player into).
Search 2010 Gen Con events
...
A Keyboard is a keyboard
A mouse is a mouse
A UPS is a UPS
Just one small portable device that acts as a mini comp/multemedia device. kind of like the Archos media jukebox. I don't need a screen. It should be able to wirelessly connect to a tv or some such and use that. same for connecting to a car stereo for mp3. It should do mp3s, movie, photos etc.
-- Karma Karma Karma Karma, Karma Chameleon - Boy George
Wouldn't a decent computer be what they are desiging? Hello, you already have an uberdevice.
"What I need is an exact list of specific unknown problems we might encounter."
Problems over a PC that this uber device would solve
- Known and tested hardware
- Optimized software (you can go ahead and assume, here it would NOT be bad programming practice)
- "Optimized" Hardware, you could have very specialized hardware that like the software does not have to bother with multiple procs, chipsets, software, etc.
- standard instructions
Problems it would have- lack of expansion
- lack of choice
- very limited software set (Only works with that console's games, which is one of many)
- does not integrate well with other apps (can't modify it easily either)
- increase in overall expense (back to the "can't expand or modify... easily")
Ahh, hell that seems to be the wave of the future but I wonder if PC's as we know it will phase out in favor of not just entertainment devices but similiar "business" and consumer devices that later are victims of a trend to "enhance" and "expand" them to offer what PC's give us now. That is what product evolution is all about, though!